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10 Commandments Eliminated

Why do some Christians claim that the Ten Commandments have been eliminated, when Jesus said that they would not be altered while heaven and earth remain (Matt 5:17, 18)?

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 ---jerry6593 on 8/6/12
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Peter,

I have, on numerous occasions, left my username and asked someone to email me through the penpals section. I sometimes do that if the issue cannot be resolved in a few posts.

But when someone says that the devil believes in Jesus, which scripture never says, then I feel compelled to correct that person. WHY ??

Because scripture says believing in Jesus constitures saving faith. And when someone says that's not enough, because "the devil does that" they are teaching a different gospel.

That MUST be denounced and corrected in front of as many people as possible.

Now, if Warwick would stop changing what he says, this issue could be resolved
---James_L on 8/16/12


Warwick I agree it is foolish for any Christian to think just because we are under the New Covenant they can live like the devil and get away with it. I think thats just Once saved always saved doctrine. My brother-in-law use to tell me he could murder a man and still be saved,disregarding that a Christian is to walk in the Spirit and not the flesh which is sin. As far as Old Covenant being eleminate perhaps it would be plainer to say it has all been integrated into the the New Covenant,its all covered under the Law of Love,faith,and grace. We do those things which are holy because we love the Lord and we are Spiritual now in God's Army. We avoid all sin because it is the enemies camp and we are not to go there.
---Darlene_1 on 8/16/12


James L: Maybe I am being silly here, but I find myself unable to see where you really differ from Warwick.

I have the impression you differ from Warwick in the 'salvation' side as opposed to 'belief' side.

But in reality, the time to differ on such matter when we are given so few words is truly impossible, unless you both belief you have been given level of expression that are not given to most people.

It is these little questions that waste time here. It would much simply for us to be allowed to swap emails and just discuss this stuff where we can use as many words as we need!
---Peter on 8/15/12


James, Abraham was considered righteous because he was a man of faith, a believer in God "whose faith and actions were working together, and his faith made complete by what he did" James 2:22. It is not just that he believed there was one God (even the demons believe that)Vs 19, but that he showed the reality of his faith by what he did.

It is not just about believing who Jesus is but believing what He says is true and making your faith complete by what you do, as James says.

We have to remember the thread question is whether the 10 Commandments have been done away with. They haven't as none can live contrary to them, by intent, and honestly say they are a follower of Jesus.
---Warwick on 8/15/12


\\believe means to accept something as true.\\
---Warwick on 8/15/12

If you think the gospel boils down to:

"believe a few true things about Jesus, and follow some rules. Oh...in His name, of course"

then you will find yourself at the wrong judgment seat.

It was said of Abraham:

And he believed the LORD, and He "accounted it to him for righteousness". (Gen 15:6)

and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore it was "accounted to him for righteousness". (Romans 4:21)

Paul explained what it means to believe in. As I said before, it is a confident hope and expectation in Christ to save us. And the devil doesn't
---James_L on 8/15/12




Darlene, what I oppose is the idea promoted by some that the law is totally done away with so we are free to live however we please. As 2 Corinthians 3:3, Romans 2:15, and Hebrews 8:10 show the Law has not passed away, but is no longer written on tablets of stone but upon our hearts. But it is the same law. As the old one said "do not commit adultery" so does the new one.
---Warwick on 8/15/12


Matthew 19:16 what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Matthew 19:17 if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Revelation 14:12 the saints: they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Revelation 12:17 the remnant--which keep the commandments of God,
---francis on 8/15/12


Follower, your adding to the Word of God,

"Matthew 19:16-17 states to enter into eternal life keep Gods 10 laws."

That is not what the passage says. Jesus only gave him six commandments. He said he had kept them and again asked,
"What do I still lack?" Jesus then said to him something not in the Ten Commandments,
"If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven, and come, follow Me"
Jesus was not setting forth terms for salvation, but rather exposing the young man's true heart. His refusal to obey here revealed two things, He was not blameless as far as the law was concern. Second, he lacked true faith.
---Mark_V. on 8/15/12


---Darlene_1 on 8/15/12
Well I posted ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS from the books of the NT.

You doctrine is true, we are not under the school master, but if i can post all ten commandments from the books of the NT, then the 10 commandments is not the school master because it says that now that faith is come we are no longer under a school master, yet I can post all ten commandments commanded from the books of the NT.

Schoolmaster is the sacrificial system which pointed to Jesus as: lamb of God, high priest and so on.
Notice no one can post any command in the Nt to shed any blood.
---francis on 8/15/12


James, the word believe means to accept something as true. Satan tempted Jesus "If you are the Son of God...." Matthew 4:3. He knew who Jesus was having been on the scene (in human terms) since Eden. He believed Jesus was real but would not follow Him.

'Believe', like any word is defined by context. "You believe that God is one, you do well. Even the demons believe and shudder!" James 2:19. As recorded in Mark 1:24 an evil spirit said "...I know who you are the Holy One of God." Satan and they knew who Jesus was but would not follow Him.

"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith (belief) but does not have works? Can that faith save him?" James 2:14
---Warwick on 8/15/12




Galatians 3:25 Now that faith has come,we are no longer under the supervision of the Law. We are under grace,faith,and Law of Love. We are Christians by the Spirit. Galatians 5:16,18 I say live by the Spirit and you won't gratify the desires of the sinful nature. But if you are led by the Spirit,you are not under the Law. Warwick sorry but you still don't get what I am saying,it is to do Gods will and if we live by faith,in grace,and in love we do this,Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love,joy,peace,patience,kindness,goodness,faithfulness,gentleness,and selfcontrol. Against such things there is no law. Old Covenant,outside,rituals,Priests,New Covenant inside in heart and mind,Spiritual,Jesus savior,mediator.
---Darlene_1 on 8/15/12


Matthew 19:16-17 states to enter into eternal life keep Gods 10 laws.

1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

John was inspired by God to state Gods 10 spiritual laws are not grievous and is understood knowing that it is through The Lord Jesus that we are able to keep these laws, although not perfectly as The Lord did, we can learn to overcome.

Matthew 5:19 is a warning to the followers of the Lord to not teach anyone to break Gods 10 spiritual laws
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/15/12


First Commandment: 1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God,

Second Commandment: 1 John 5:21 keep yourselves from idols.

Third Commandment:1 Timothy 6:1 the name of God be not blasphemed.

Fourth Commandment: Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Fifth Commandment: Ephesians 6:1 Honour your father and your mother

Sixth Commandment: James 2:11 Do not kill.

Seventh Commandment: Hebrews 13:4 adulterers God will judge.

Eighth Commandment: Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more:

Ninth Commandment: Colossians 3:9 Lie not one to another

Tenth Commandment: Ephesians 5:3 covetousness, let it not be once named among you,
---francis on 8/15/12


\\Satan obviously believes but does not follow.\\
---Warwick

Satan obviously does NOT "believe in" Jesus, and your suggestion that he does makes me think you don't even know what it means to believe in someone. I once told my own mother that I wish she would believe in me. Do you think I wanted my mom to believe that I'm alive? or believe that I'm her son ??

NO ! !

I wanted my mom to have a confident hope and expectation that what I set out to do, I will accomplish.

That, Warwick, is what biblical "believe in" means. Just where do you see in scipture that Satan is looking to Christ with a confident hope ?? NOWHERE.

good grief
---James_L on 8/14/12


James, as I see it I believe in, and follow Jesus. Satan obviously believes but does not follow. Likewise if someone says they believe in Jesus but deliberately, as a lifestyle lives contrary to the 10 Commandments he is a fraud.

You wrote "You say "follow Jesus" and "be a Christian" in the same context. Are you backpeddling now?" No, as being a Christian means you follow Him.
---Warwick on 8/14/12


\\You raised the idea of believing vs following Jesus. I am talking about following.\\
---Warwick on 8/14/12

You have blended believing and following in a twisted manner, and here are your own words:


\\Are you saying that Good works is not necessary for Christians? Are you also saying we can purposefully live contrary to the 10 Commandments and still say we follow Jesus?\\
---Warwick on 8/12/12


\\You say not everyone saved by Jesus will follow Him and, can willingly, as a lifestyle commit adultery, murder or theft...and still claim to be Christian? You jest!\\
---Warwick on 8/12/12


You say "follow Jesus" and "be a Christian" in the same context. Are you backpeddling now?
---James_L on 8/14/12


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Francis when Jesus was on earth the Old Covenant with all the Ten Commandements were still in effect. It was only after he shed his blood on the cross,the blood of the New Covenant,was the Old Covenant passed away. 1 Corinthians 11:25 This cup is the New Covenant in my blood,do this whenever you drink it in rememberance of me.
---Darlene_1 on 8/14/12


Darlene it isn't living in the old covenant to obey God's will. Jesus said 'You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery." But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matthew 5:27,28. Is Jesus here rejecting the jurisdiction of the OT Commandmernt, or reinforcing it by explaining the extent of the spirit of this commandment, as applying to those listening to Him?
---Warwick on 8/14/12


\\Satan believes in Jesus.\\
---Warwick on 8/14/12

That is utter nonsense. There isn't one hint that Satan "believes in" Jesus. You think believing there is one God equates to "believing in" God ???

Abraham "Believed There Is one God" and it was credited to him as righteousness ??? NO !!! He BELIEVED IN God

You ought ot be ashamed of yourself.

Just like 99.9% of all "christians" , the world has influenced your understanding of a phrase held so sacred in scripture

Whosoever BELIEVES IN Him will not perish. It says nothing about "believes He exists" which is what is said about the devil.

Good grief
---James_L on 8/14/12


---Darlene_1 on 8/14/12

Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Maybe that schoolmaster is not the ten commandments

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
---francis on 8/14/12


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In other words you wont answer.

Thats typical of those who use the law to condemn. They know good and well they are not without sin and admitting that fact would be condemning themselves along with everyone else. Typical hypocrite.
---CraigA on 8/14/12


Not even Paul claimed to be perfect.
---CraigA on 8/14/12

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
---francis on 8/14/12


Christians are not intended to live with one foot in the Old Covenant and one foot in the New Covenant. Deuteronomy 9:15 (Moses)came down from the mount-:and the two tables of the Covenant were in my two hands (Ten Commandments). Old Covenant on stone,also with many laws,ordinances,and Prophets speaking from God. New Covenant Hebrews 8:10-,I will put my laws into their mind and write them in their hearts:-. Galatians 3:23,24,25,26 before faith,kept under law shut up unto the faith which afterward be revealed.Law was schoolmaster to bring us to Christ for us to be justified by faith. After faith came we are no longer under schoolmaster. We are Gods children by faith in Christ.
---Darlene_1 on 8/14/12


Not even Paul claimed to be perfect.
---CraigA on 8/14/12

1 Corinthians 4:16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.


1 Thessalonians 1:5 as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake

2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
---francis on 8/14/12


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Francis, are you declaring that since the day Jesus Christ came into your heart that you no longer fall short of Gods glory?


Not even Paul claimed to be perfect.

---CraigA on 8/14/12


Mat_7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Joh_9:39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see, and that they which see might be made blind.

1Jn_1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Rom_3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God,

Joh_9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see, therefore your sin remaineth.

Joh_10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Peace
---TheSeg on 8/14/12


James, the blog question concerns whether the 10 Commandments have been done away with, as some Christians say. Is not a Christian, by definition a follower of Christ?.

In this context I wrote "Are you also saying we can purposefully live contrary to the 10 Commandments and still say we follow Jesus?" This is not a statement, but a question.

You replied "Not everyone who believes in Him (and has eternal life) will follow Him." But that wasn't the question was it?

You raised the idea of believing vs following Jesus. I am talking about following. Satan believes in Jesus.

To the original question I ask: how can followers of Christ live purposefully in contradiction of these Commandments?
---Warwick on 8/14/12


I'm sorry but I don't know a single Christian in this world that is perfect and does not sin daily.
---CraigA on 8/13/12

1 Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation,

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints

How then can you not know ANY christians who are
1:Saints,
2:Righteous,
3:Perfect and
4:Holy?
It is your afiliation? because clearly these are what we are as christians called to be.
---francis on 8/14/12


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Warwick,
you are now misrepresenting what I have said.

NOWHERE have I said that someone can live in disobedience and say he is FOLLOWER of Christ.

What I HAVE said, over and over, is that there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between BELIEVING IN Christ and FOLLOWING Him.

Either you HAVE NOT read what I've written and it is "useless" to argue in ignorance,

OR

You HAVE read what I've written and are intentionally distorting it


SO WHICH ONE IS IT ? ! ?
---James_L on 8/13/12


\\James has clearly said that faith without works (for the believer) is dead and useless. Nothing you say changes that.\\
---Warwick on 8/13/12

I've never argued against that. What I have argued against is what you THINK it means to be dead and useless.

CONTEXT, Warwick.

Faith, by itself, CANNOT save us from negative judgment at the BEMA (James 2:12,14).

At that judgment, faith that is alone is USELESS to save someone from shame and loss.

Some will suffer so much loss that it will be like escaping a house fire. They will have NOTHING, because they lived their life for themselves.
---James_L on 8/13/12


Francis, I'm sorry but I don't know a single Christian in this world that is perfect and does not sin daily. Most of us are humble enough to know we get weak at times and sin and are in daily need of Gods forgiveness.

I sin every day and when I confess to the Lord and ask for his forgiveness and strength He is always there. I know it because of his promises in 1 John 1:9. His day by day mercies increase my love for him. That love is what keeps me striving each and every day to be a better man for HIS glory.
---CraigA on 8/13/12


Francis,

If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If walking in the light were being sinless then what would we have to confess?

Walking in the light is being humble before the Lord and confessing your sins daily to obtain mercy and the grace to overcome them.

Every true repentant believer in Christ strives to be holy as He is holy because we love him! We fail every day. But we grow a little each day as well.

Name one Christian who hasnt committed one sin after accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.
---CraigA on 8/13/12


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I pity those who are so afraid of Gods judgement that they cant even trust him with their infirmities. They dont truly love God, they are simply terrified of him.

The law condemns...

The Spirit brings life...

There is not one place in scripture that says the day we receive the Spirit of Christ that we are sinless while IN THIS BODY. The Spirit renews our minds. Its is a growth process. Its not instantaneous.

Just in case any of us think because we've followed the 10 commandments "perfectly" as a Christian that we are going to heaven because of it, have you sold everything that you have and given it to the poor yet? (Mark 10:21)
---Blogger9680 on 8/13/12


James, as I asked "I trust you agree James was inspired by God for our instruction?" Do you?

James has clearly said that faith without works (for the believer) is dead and useless. Nothing you say changes that. There is no way a Christian can willingly, as a life-style, commit adultery, lie, cheat and steal and imagine they are followers of Christ. The very idea is ridiculous.

1 John 2:3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."
---Warwick on 8/13/12


---CraigA on 8/13/12
Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you, and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Ezekiel 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

The spirit of God in us, causes us to obey FULLY not partially

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
---francis on 8/13/12


Isreal never understood either, the Law(10)will not pass away till the end of the book happens, the sins of the law is what the price of the cross payed for!

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
---Richard on 8/13/12


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\\The Lord Jesus stated many will call on his name and live contrary to his 10 laws he will say to them he never knew them.\\
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/13/12

He most certainly did not. You are pushing your doctrine onto Matthew 7:21. Entering through the narrow gate is through faith in Christ - as opposed to works. The bearing fruit (v17-18) is what a person believes and teaches. Remember the CONTEXT, He said we would not know false teachers by the OUTSIDE, but by the INSIDE (fruit).

We only discover a fraud when he opens his mouth and discloses his beliefs.


And the commandments tell us it is possible to disobey

Look at Israel, for crying out loud. Did the they obey?
---James_L on 8/13/12


James

John 6:64-66 If these people no longer walked with the Lord Jesus they are no longer followers of the Lord.

This brings us back to the original question. James you claim that One can BELIEVE IN Jesus, and live contrary to the 10 commmandments. Not everyone who believes in Him (and has eternal life) will follow Him.

James where is this concept found in scripture? Where did the Lord state this? John 6:64-66 does not state one can live contrary to Gods 10 laws.

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The Lord Jesus stated many will call on his name and live contrary to his 10 laws he will say to them he never knew them.
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/13/12


Francis, repent does not mean to STOP sinning completely. If we could do that we would not need the strength of the Spirit of Christ living within us! Repentance is realizing we need to call upon the Lord Jesus Christ to change us from the inside.

The change that occurs is according HIS unique plan for each of us. Each part of the body of Christ has it own weaknesses and strengths. That is how we bond together as one in Christ. That is how we grow in love for one another because we realize that we all need each other. What you do with your judgmental attitude is cause division. It is just plain despicable and you should be ashamed of yourself.
---CraigA on 8/13/12


It would be nice if you at least attempted some sort of commentary to support your use (and obvious twisting) of scripture.
---James_L on 8/12

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

If there is no commetary how can you say that it is twisted?
No commentary is needed for these verses, they say exactly what they say.
---francis on 8/13/12


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\\1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.\\
---francis on 8/12/12

It would be nice if you at least attempted some sort of commentary to support your use (and obvious twisting) of scripture. The apostle Paul, AFTER his conversion, said that He wanted to KNOW Christ.

So what are you getting at? Expound a little for us, why don't you ??


\\do you want evidence faith apart from works is useless?" vs 20. How can it be any clearer?\\
---Warwick on 8/12/12

You're pushing a doctrine which is foreign to the context, the Judgment Seat of Christ (James 2:12, 3:1) for BELIEVERS.

And that, my friend, is scripture twisting
---James_L on 8/12/12


\\where is your answer found?\\
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/12/12

Why command someone to do what they're going to do anyway?

If obeying is inevitable, then why on earth would God chasten? For being obedient ?? That's plain stupid

Also, the gospels distinguish between believing and following

John 6:64-66
"some of you who do not believe.....As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.

Some of His discipes (followers) did not believe.

John 12:42-43
many...believed in Him, but...they were not confessing Him...for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

Many believers did not follow
---James_L on 8/12/12


James wrote: One can BELIEVE IN Jesus, and live contrary to the 10 commmandments. Not everyone who believes in Him (and has eternal life) will follow Him.


James where is your answer found in scripture? I'm at a loss to find this concept. Where did the Lord state this?

Do you understand your answer is not from Lord Jesus because it is contrary to scripture? 1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


~humble follower of the Rock and lover of The Eternals truth (KJV) Matt 16:18, Corin 10:4, 2 Thess 2:10 1 Pet 2:21
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/12/12


James, I trust you agree James was inspired by God for our instruction?

"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?" 2:14 "faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead" vs.17 "..do you want evidence faith apart from works is useless?" vs 20. How can it be any clearer?

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Good works for some James or for all saved by grace?

You say not everyone saved by Jesus will follow Him and, can willingly, as a lifestyle commit adultery, murder or theft...and still claim to be Christian? You jest!
---Warwick on 8/12/12


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---CraigA on 8/12/12
Psalms 98:9 for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.

Romans 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance?

Romans 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?

God has the same standard of judgment for those before the cross as those after the cross.

Would it be just and right for someone to burn in hell for a sin ( pick any) and at the same time another should live in glory after commiting the very same sin, neither of them having repented, both of them sinning wilfuly?
---francis on 8/12/12


One can BELIEVE IN Jesus, and live contrary to the 10 commmandments. Not everyone who believes in Him (and has eternal life) will follow Him.
--James_L on 8/12/12

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
---francis on 8/12/12


\\Are you saying that Good works is not necessary for Christians?\\
---Warwick

James chapter 2 gives no hint that every believer will show their faith by their works. Maturing believers will, but immature believers won't.


\\Are you also saying we can purposefully live contrary to the 10 Commandments and still say we follow Jesus?\\
---Warwick

One can BELIEVE IN Jesus, and live contrary to the 10 commmandments. Not everyone who believes in Him (and has eternal life) will follow Him.


God never leaves it as optional, but He doesn't make us robots, either. We still are subject to the trappings of this world, and some bona fide believers will indulge, and indulge, and give up the battle against the flesh.
---James_L on 8/12/12


James, I do not believe I have twisted Scripture at all.

Are you saying that Good works is not necessary for Christians? Are you also saying we can purposefully live contrary to the 10 Commandments and still say we follow Jesus?

If this is not what you mean, what do you mean?
---Warwick on 8/12/12


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Francis, do you really want God to be "fair" to you and give you what you deserve? You would burn for all eternity. Or would you rather have his grace? Think about what you are saying.

If you claim to live by grace but judge according to the law, it shows evidence that you believe the LAW still makes men righteous and not the blood of Jesus Christ. And you know full well what scripture says about that in Gal 5:4



Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
---CraigA on 8/12/12


Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

Isaiah 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar, for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE

Here we have the word of God saying that His law was not for Jews only. The son of a stranger ( None jew) should also make a sacrifice and burnt offering, keep the sabbath, and prayer is the house of God and it will be acceptable to God
---francis on 8/12/12


Psalms 51:3-4, and Romans 3:4-6 speak about God haveing a just and righteous judgment of the world.

Those false teachers, lowlifes as Jesus calls them in Matthew 5, who teach men to break the laws of God are also indirectly and in some cased directly teaching you that God has a double standard of judgment.

One for those before the cross, and one for those after the cross.

I want those of you, ( WHO HAVE A LOVE FOR TRUTH) to think about just and righteous judgment.

DO you think it would be just and right for someone to burn in hell for a sin ( pick any) and at the same time another should live in glory after commiting the very same sin, neither of them having repented, both of them sinning wilfuly?
---francis on 8/11/12


\\Exodus 12:49....and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Numbers 9:14....and also for the stranger that sojourneth [with you]...

No law was for jews only.\\
---francis on 8/9/12


Are you sojourning with the Jews? I'm not.

The law WAS given the Jews, and anyone who sojourned with them.

The burden of proof is still upon you to demonstrate your ill-informed opinion from scripture, which you have not
---James_L on 8/11/12


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Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them:

Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet
---francis on 8/11/12


\\James says those saved will show their faith by good works.\\
---Warwick on 8/9/12

No, he does not. That is scripture twisting at it's worst.

James said in 2:14 that faith without works cannot "save" a man.

Save Him From What ? ! ?

Negative Judgment when we are judged by the Law of Liberty (VERSE 12)

Those who are MATURING will show their faith by their works (VERSE 22)
---James_L on 8/11/12


some Christians make that claim because they are not a follower of Christ. A follower of Christ believes every word he spoke and his words are truth in Matthew 5. Satan seeks to destroy and deceive by creating chaos and confusion. Many call themselves Christian and the Lord said they are none of his Matt 15:8-9 because they are liars who create chaos and confusion through the name of the Lord. They make a claim by their lips and by their actions they follow traditions of men and doctrines of men instead of following the Lord Jesus and teach exactly what he spoke in matt 5
~humble follower of the Rock and lover of The Eternals truth (KJV) Matt 16:18, Corin 10:4, 2 Thess 2:10 1 Pet 2:21
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/11/12


Exodus 22:31 And ye shall be holy men unto me:
Psalms 99:9 the LORD our God is holy.

Any person who thinks that any laws of God in the entire bible, which if violated is a sin, can ever be done away with, does not understand what it means to serve a Holy GOD.

God holiness is not in degrees or in time, God is ALWAYS HOLY (without sin, and sin is unable to stand in his presence)

Anyone who thinks that the very thing (SIN) which caused the death of the HOLY Son of God would ever be acceptable in the presence of God, or from the people of God, has been deceived by Satan

1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy, for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
---francis on 8/11/12


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We are still under and will always be under the moral laws of God (the Ten Commandments).
Christ coming and fulfillment of the law did not eliminate thou shall have no other gods before me, or thou shall not kill, or thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife, etc.

Christ's coming did eliminate the Mosaic law and ushered in the age of grace, or Grace Dispensation.
---trey on 8/10/12


Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth... And he shall...think to change times and laws:


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

AS IT WAS IN EDEN, IT IS THE WORD OF GOD OR THE WORD OF SATAN

Revelation 13:2 And the beast...the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
---francis on 8/10/12


Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Matthew 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Matthew 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
---Richard on 8/10/12


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to ulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Let the lowlifes break and teach men to break them.
Let the great ones keep and teach men to keep them.

Those who can rightly diovide the word of God know that the ten commandments are not done away with
---francis on 8/10/12


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The ten commandments is not the old covenant.
This is the old covenant:

Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him. And all the people answered together, and said, ALL THAT THE LORD HATH SPOKEN WE WILL DO. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD

It was broken when they failed to return to The Lord.
---francis on 8/9/12


Lee 1538,thank you for those Bible verses,they are very helpful. That is what I've been trying to say when I referred to the Ten Commandments being rolled up in the Law of Love,but you made it clearer. I feel if you live by the Law of Love you will be doing the Commandments. Thanks God Bless
---Darlene_1 on 8/9/12


Darlene, Francis shows the 10 Commandments were never exclusively for Jews.

I believe man cannot be saved by these Commandments. No one, on their own, can achieve perfection. James says those saved will show their faith by good works. Therefore I cannot imagine how anyone can call themselves Christian and live intentionally outside the Commandments. I see the Sabbath Command as a principle. By choice Sunday is my Sabbath and wonder about Christians who do not have a days rest, treating their day of worship as just any day. Off to church, out of church, back to the world.

As Jesus said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" Matthew 5:17.
---Warwick on 8/9/12


Lets put this in terms we sinners can understand, the Law cannot save anyone, it can only condemn the guilty. the law cannot stop a DUI,"guilty" the law cannot stop a bullit killing someone,"guilty" the law cannot stop someone from lieing,"guilty". The law cannot save,only condemn, But Love fulfills the law, Love will not Dui, Kill, Lie. our problem is we think it, as Jesus put it "to hate your brother is the same as murder" It would never occur to our heavanly father to do these things, so where did the law(the 10)come from? he simple pointed out our faults, whats wrong with us. hope this helps, and i am a sinful speller,Love Rick
---Richard on 8/9/12


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what is the ten commandments?

Exodus 34:28 So he was there with the LORD 40 days and nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the 10 Commandments.
De 4:13 And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the 10 Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone.

So the 10 commandments was the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

This says the 10 commandments being the old covenant became obsolete.

All the commandment except the Sabbath are in the New Covenant.
---lee1538 on 8/9/12


Some of this conversation is unfortunate and illinformed. The idea that the laws were for jews only!!

Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Numbers 9:14 And if a stranger shall sojourn among you, and will keep the passover unto the LORD,... Numbers 15:15 One ordinance shall be both for you... and also for the stranger that sojourneth [with you]...

No law was for jews only.
Some of you will now have to rethink the idea that the ten commandments were for jews only.

God is not the God of the jew only
---francis on 8/9/12


Warwick I'm sorry but you must not have understood exactly what I was saying. I didn't say the Ten Commandments had no influnce on a Christians life,I said they did,as our teacher,we learned from them what God expected from His people. It is obvious not all of the Commandments are in effect over Christians because the New Testament says let no man judge you of your holy day or the sabbath,meaning if they are different let no one judge you for it. In the verses in Acts it tells Gentiles exactly what they should do and not do and it wasn't to go by all of the Commandments. Please give the chapter and verse where Jesus said the Ten Commandments are to still stand. He was talking to Jews.
---Darlene_1 on 8/9/12


Jesus Himself said that the Law would not change while heaven and earth remain? jerry6593 on 8/8/12

Paul's gospel was given by the Glorified Chist out of heaven. He received it from no man, it is our good news.

The Kingdom evangel requires repentence and works. All that the Lord taught while on earth remains. It is for the Jew, not the Gentiles.

Paul's commission is not that of the Twelve. We are saved by faith for grace. Our destiny is celestial, not earthly, as Israel's.

We will be changed into His image. They will be regenerated to flesh at the resurrection. They must fulfill the law. He will be present with them.

We are His Body, not the bride of the Lamb.
---Phil on 8/9/12


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-Was Paul addressing little jews?--Nana on 8/8/12

Sarcasm noted.

The commandments proceed out of God. They are holy, and just.

The action of the law written on our hearts dictates obedience. The motion and action of the Ten Commandments is in our nature. Our hearts are corrupted by sin.

The Jew was given the Law, not us, and breaking it is a transgression.
G3847 parabasis

Our sins were deemed offenses G3900 paraptoma
not transgressions.
Ro 4:15 ..for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

Under the Law? No.

Influenced by it? Yes.

It is out of God.
---Phil on 8/9/12


Darlene, Jesus is very clear in saying He fulfilled the law, paying the price of sin, but that the commandments still stand. We never could be saved by them but we cannot willingly, as a life-style, break them and claim to be Jesus' followers.

We are not a people apart, but one "grafted in" Romans 11:17.
---Warwick on 8/8/12


"He has ordained a race to be a priesthood and Holy Nation for His own, the Jews.
The Ten Commandments belong to them alone. None of the promises of the Covenant belong to the Gentile nations."
Phil (again!)

Ephesians 6:1_3 "Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Honour thy father and mother, (which is the first commandment with promise,)
That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth."

Was Paul addressing little jews?
---Nana on 8/8/12


The Old Testament and all in it was our school master teaching us God's way and how he viewed humankind. The Ten Commandments were never given to the Gentiles,they were Old Covenant,we are under the New Covenant which makes us follow the Law of Love,when its kept,it rolls many of the Ten Commandments into the law of Love. Acts 15:19-20 gives us the rules that are for Gentiles and that means us.
---Darlene_1 on 8/8/12


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Phil: You seem to have ignored the second half of the question. How do you get around the fact that Jesus Himself said that the Law would not change while heaven and earth remain? Do you believe that Paul has the power to override Jesus? Is it not possible that you have misinterpreted Paul, as Scott seems to suggest? Don't feel bad, even Peter had trouble with Paul's writings (2 Pet 3:15,16).


---jerry6593 on 8/8/12


There Kingdom of God is universal. It is entirely spiritual.

His Son, the Image of the invisible God, Creator of all things visible, is the ruler over all things material.

He has ordained a race to be a priesthood and Holy Nation for His own, the Jews.

The Ten Commandments belong to them alone. None of the promises of the Covenant belong to the Gentile nations.

His Body, made up of Gentiles and a Jewish remnant, will reign with Him in the Heavens as Israel reigns on earth, during the Day of the Lord.

We are not earthly citizens, we are heavenly citizen. The Law does not belong to us.

It pertains to God's earthly Kingdom when His Son assumes His throne in Jerusalem.
---Phil on 8/7/12


They think grace replaced the Law as if the Law was evil and/or use Paul's misinterpretation of the Galatians verse that the Law is JUST a caregiver and now can be thrown away. What Paul realy said (with other verses like Roman Ch 6.) was that we have freedom within the Law. For example the sabbath, in OT the Sabbath was only on Saturday. With grace and the restoration of "You are free to..." Gen Ch3. we can have sabbath on any day.
---Scott1 on 8/7/12


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