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Origin Of The Word Hell

What is the origin of the English word hell? What was it's meaning?

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 ---1st_cliff on 8/16/12
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"And as it is appointed for men to die once and after this the Judgment" (Heb. 9:27)


correct and when is this judgement? It does not say immediately! Please tell me you do understand this - right??

Gordon no man has ever been at Gods throne ever. You can find that in holy scripture anything else you have made it up and there is a warning from God for people who add to his word.
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/29/12


Follower-of-Christ, And, you do know that GOD can set up HIS Throne of Judgment anywhere inside and outside of the Universe as HE sees fit. Right?? I reiterate what Cluny and Mark V. have brought up to you, that, the words of "Everlasting" are used both for those in Heaven with Eternal Life and for those in Everlasting Damnation, Punishment of Torments. The same word of "Everlasting" is used for both! If "everlasting" describes the duration of time for those in Heaven, and it means "on-going, without stopping", and the same word "everlasting" is used for the Torments of the Damned, then the Torments, also, will be on-going, without stopping. Same word, Follower. WAKE-UP.
---Gordon on 8/29/12


Follower, after a person dies, for him the next thing is the Judgment,
"And as it is appointed for men to die once and after this the Judgment" (Heb. 9:27). Many things will happen while he is dead turning to dust. But (Rev. 20:12) tells us,
"And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God" That means those who died will be before God. And since their bodies turned to dust, they have a body prepared for the judgment. The saved have a body prepared for eternity.
Christ changes our vile body" (Phil. 3:21). The word "change" means to transfigure. Just like Christ was transfigured in (Matt. 17:2). The change of the believer at the resurrection has to do with his body.
---Mark_V. on 8/29/12



The wicked souls will stand before God on Judgment Day. But that passage is talking about here on earth.


Mark when the Lord returns to rule as King of Kings from Jerusalem the earth will be renewed and the sinners will be consumed out of the earth.

holy scripture teaches:

judgement day does not happen at death

judgement day does not happen when the Lord returns to rule.

Judgement day happens after the 3rd resurrection at that time the wicked will be judged on earth and Satan and demons will be cast to darkness forever. You do understand the wicked would never be in heaven - right? scripture teaches no sin is near God at any time.
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/28/12


Follower, you said and gave a passage,
" At judgement the wicked will receive their punishment and will cease to exist ever again. Psalm 104:35"

Do you not know that when the wicked die, he ceases to exist on earth as the passage says?
"May sinners be consumed from the earth and the wicked be no more.."
The wicked souls will stand before God on Judgment Day. But that passage is talking about here on earth. Not when he stands before God. His soul is still alive, it never died. It can be kill by God if He chooses. but his punishment will be everlasting, as Cluny said, the same words are used for everlasting life. If everlasting death ends, then everlasting life ends also. The same words are used.
---Mark_V on 8/28/12




1st Cliff, GOD created the physical body to work in concert with the soul. And, GOD can do anything out of HIS Good Nature and that includes taking people to Hell and back. Which HE has done numerous times. Some people are too blinded to believe it. But, that's their loss. The people who have died, and gone to Hell and were brought back by GOD's Hand testify of the reality of Hell Torments. They testify of having a "spiritual" body, where they have all 5 senses, not only intact, but are hightened. But, because they were in Hell, those hightened senses only made Hell that much worse.
---Gordon on 8/28/12


My, Gordon, It gets curiouser and curiouser (from Alice in Wonderland)
Now we have a small fire,temporary and a big one pemanent?
We have the soul separating from the body with a duplicate set of body parts?
Dead people who have been there?
Seriously Gordon who's teaching you this stuff?
Is it the soul or the physical brain that does the thinking?
Ponder on this and answer,OK?
---1st_cliff on 8/27/12


\\I never said you were. But I DID say I've heard the same thing from SDA.

interesting contradiction from your original post that is not what you wrote\\

That's EXACTLY what I wrote, FoC, and here is the direct cut-and-paste of what I said:

|+++++++++++++++++


\\ The verse states punishment not punishing. Punishment has an end. \\

This is one of the many word games played by the SDA on the subject.

if hell comes to an end, then heaven does too, because the SAME WORDS are used to describe the length of both.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/22/12

+++++++++++++++++++++++

I DEFY you to prove from this that I said you were SDA.
---Cluny on 8/27/12


1st Cliff, There is Fire in both Sheol/Hades (Hell) and in Gehenna (Lake of Fire). The difference between the two is that the Lake has more of it. And, the Lake of Fire will last eternally, whereas, Hell is only temporary. And, all of those who inhabit Hell will be cast alive into the Lake of Fire one fateful day. That's what REVELATION 20:14 is referring to.
---Gordon on 8/27/12


1st Cliff, At Death, the soul of a person separates from their physical body. The soul is in the same form as the flesh-and-blood body. There have even been people who have died for a short period of time and who have revived and have testified to this! The soul has everything that the physical body does, only it lives on throughout Eternity. GOD made the physical body in the same form as the soul. And, the soul was made after the Image of GOD. But, GOD will resurrect the physical body from it's ashes, one day, to reunite it with it's soul to stand before HIM on Judgment Day. TELL ME, if it wasn't something that will literally happen in Hell (as in LUKE 16) WHERE, then, did YAHUSHUA say that it would NOT be that way??
---Gordon on 8/27/12




Gordon, You don't see the metaphor here,obviously.
Suppose it's literal OK?
He's buried,lifts up his eyes? (the eyes decay with the rest of the body)
Some how he sees through 6' of earth and sees Abraham's bosom?
FYI The "hell" mentioned here is Hades not Gehenna there's no fire in Hades!
You need some bible tutoring,Gordon!
---1st_cliff on 8/26/12


David8138, YOU say that "God and Jesus do not teach that the soul lives on after the death of the body." HUH? What did "JESUS" (YAHUSHUA) say happened in the Story in LUKE 16 with the Rich Man and Lazarus, AND THESE ARE "JESUS'" WORDS!, in LUKE 16:22-23, "...the rich man also died, and was buried, and IN HELL he lift up his eyes, BEING IN TORMENTS..." Now, David, YOU'VE JUST NOW BEEN CAUGHT IN A LIE. For, we can plainly read that "JESUS" said that the "...rich man died, and in Hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments..."
Even if it's only a Parable, YAHUSHUA was indicating, in this Story, what happens to a sinner at death!
---Gordon on 8/26/12


1st Cliff, When a person dies, where they will spend Eternity is already determined by the time they take their last breath on Earth. The purpose for the resurrection of the Damned to stand before GOD at the Great White Throne is to give an account for their lives they lived on Earth. GOD will show them why they are going to the Lake of Fire and how it is that they truly deserve to go there. The Damned souls will have every opportunity to explain themselves, but, they shall be silenced for good when they see that they have not one leg to stand on. They will have not one excuse. It will not be a Judgment in the sense of deciding where they will go. NO, rather, it will be to pronounce the Judgment of damnation of their souls into the Lake of Fire.
---Gordon on 8/26/12


1Cliff, I don't understand your statement, you said,

"Mark V, Maybe you can answer this then. Man is judged at death whether it's heaven or hell (fundamentalists belief),so what is the purpose of a 2nd judgement?"

Man is not judged at death, it is after his physical death on the Day of Judgment. He is not ask whether heaven or hell, it is too late to repent. He stands before "the Great White Throne of Judgment" for sentencing." Books are open and he will be judge on what he did during his rebellion against God. There is no second chances.
Believers on the other hand appear at the "Judgment Seat of Christ" what many call, the "Bema Seat" It is for believers only.
---Mark_V. on 8/26/12


Mark V, Maybe you can answer this then. Man is judged at death whether it's heaven or hell (fundamentalists belief),so what is the purpose of a 2nd judgement?
The "appointment for men to die once" was in the Garden of Eden when Adam sinned and was sentenced! The judgement "after" this is whether you will be resurrected or not!
How is it you can't see a literal fiery hell is an old "scare tactic" used to keep parishioners in line!
Hard to believe that in this enlightened day people still fall for it!
---1st_cliff on 8/25/12


'The soul lives on Forever... Until you let yourself believe that, you'll never understand the Truth about Death'- Gordon.

Virgil and Plato the non-Christian philosophers wrote about an immortal soul and the catholic system adopted and for centuries teaches this doctrine of devils.

The soul dies as it is written in Gods Word and is taught by The Lord. scripture teaches death means death (not alive) and life means life (reward of eternal life). At judgement the wicked will receive their punishment and will cease to exist ever again. Psalm 104:35
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/25/12


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Gordon and Ruben teach all sinners live on after the death of the body. God and Jesus do not.

Satan promotes the teaching that sinners survive the death of the body. This is clearly seen from what Satan told Eve- Gen.3:4. Of course, Eve knew that her life depended on her obedience to God and his command. Eve knew life was dependant on obedience. Disobedience would result in death- Eve knew that. Satan then began the lie that disobedient sinners would "positively not die".

This age old satanic lie of sinners dodging God's punishment of death is used by false religion to keep people in fear by promoting hell-fire and 'eternal damnation' (as Gordon calls it). The pagan hell-fire has been a good money spinner for the RCC.
---David8318 on 8/25/12


1Cliff, God did destroy many for the survival of Israel. But the wrath of God shown in (Romans 1:18,19) is speaking of Judgment Day. Man has died already. It is said,
"And it is appointed for men to die once but after this the judgement" (Heb. 9:27,28).
Romans 2:16 tells us God will not only judge our outward appearence and actions, also our secrets.
"in the Day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ"
God says,
"But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself "wrath" in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God who will render to each one according to their deeds." (Rom. 2:5,6)
---Mark_V. on 8/25/12


Gordon, OK let's assume you're right and I'm wrong,I'll need your help in establishing a couple of things!
#1 The creation account in Gen. doesn't mention the creating this lake of fire,Where/when does it mention this?
#2 "the soul lives on forever" I can't seem to find this scripture (or one like it,immortal, never dies..etc.) I need your help OK?
#3 Gen. to Rev. spans 4 thousand years,when were God's people warned of this horrible place??
I await your answers.
---1st_cliff on 8/25/12


'MATTHEW 22:13 is only a part of the picture of what to expect in Eternal Damnation'- Gordon.

Thankfully, hell and 'eternal damnation' are not spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 22.

Gordon paints God as a merciless individual who burns sinners for all eternity. By the way, is Gordon from the Islamic faith? Gordon appears to be quoting from the Quran and/or Islamic literature in his post of 8/24/12.

Gordon's quotes: 'Eternal Damnation' and 'the Damned will suffer the burning of Fire' could be straight out of "Haddith in Islam".

But of course there is not much light between apostate Christendom and Islam who both promote the heinous hellfire doctrine. Maybe Gordon believes non-hellfire teachers are infidels?
---David8318 on 8/24/12


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'The soul lives on Forever... Until you let yourself believe that, you'll never understand the Truth about Death'- Gordon.

That apostate teaching sounds familiar.

Genesis 3:4, Satan (the 'original serpent') said to Eve, 'At this the serpent said to the woman: "YOU positively will not die"...'

It is Satan and his cohorts who promote the false teaching: 'You will positively not die'.

God however teaches, "the soul that sinneth, it shall die"- Ezek.18:4 (KJV), and "For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything"- Eccs.9:5. That's what Eve & we experience.

I agree Duane, the 'hellfire' doctrine is unloving. It is not from God, but from satanic thinking.
---David8318 on 8/24/12


1st Cliff, The people that perished in the Flood and those who were wiped out in Sodom and Gomorrah ALL WENT STRAIGHT TO HELL and there they are STILL IN TORMENTS. Not a one of those people went to Heaven at Death, for they all refused to believe both of GOD's Warnings through Noah and then from Lot. No one was righteous enough to be spared of GOD's Sword of Death except for Noah and his family and Lot and his two daughters. All of the rest perished in their SIN. So, to Hell they all went. As I said, Cliff, you will NEVER understand what really happens at Death until you accept the fact that the soul will live on throughout Eternity, all the souls of both the Redeemed and the Damned.
---Gordon on 8/24/12


David8313, MATTHEW 22:13 is only a part of the picture of what to expect in Eternal Damnation. YAHUSHUA doesn't mention the Fires in this Verse, instead He clues us in that Eternal Damnation is also replete with Utter Darkness. And, how can both Hell and the Lake of Fire be full of fire and yet be utterly dark? The darkness will, indeed, be so thick that the light of the fire will not be able to illuminate as fires do on Earth. GOD has made it so that the Damned will suffer the burning of Fire while having to dwell forever in complete and utter Darkness. For most of our minds that seeming contradiction is hard to understand as being possible. But, for GOD, NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE, regarding Heaven, Hell and the ensuing Lake of Fire.
---Gordon on 8/24/12


1st Cliff, You do not have a real fear of GOD, otherwise you would believe the Truth of Eternal Damnation. The soul lives on Forever, regardless of whether one goes to Heaven or to Hell. Until you let yourself believe that, you'll never understand the Truth about Death. GOD will not be mocked. Whatsoever a man sows, that he will reap throughout Eternity. Heaven and Hell both display GOD's Majesty and Dominance. Heaven, for it displays HIS great Love, Mercy and Glory. Hell and the Lake of Fire, for GOD's Wrath and Vengeance against Evil and evildoers will be made manifest throughout Eternity. GOD is willing that none perish, but, people must choose for themselves between Life and Death (Eternal spiritual Death in Torments).
---Gordon on 8/24/12


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Ruben quotes Matthew 25:46 from his RCC inspired translation which seeks to promote the pagan hellfire doctrine as it does the pagan trinity.

At Matthew 25:46, the Greek word 'kolasin' is used which Ruben translates as 'punishment'.

The basic meaning of the Greek word 'kolasin' is "checking the growth of trees," or pruning, cutting off unwanted branches. Thus in the context of Mt.25:46, the sheeplike ones receive everlasting life, while in contrast unrepentant goatlike ones suffer "kolasin"- being forever "cut off" from life.

A more accurate rendering of Matthew 25:46 reads:

'And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.'
---David8318 on 8/24/12


Ruben quotes Matthew 22:13 to support the pagan hellfire doctrine.

It should be noted that in the context of Matthew 22, Jesus is not discussing eternal punishment of any sort. Matthew 22:13 does not mention the idea of eternal punishment either in some 'hell-fire' or any other form of eternal punishment.

It's only Ruben's RCC indoctrination that leads him to conclude verses such as Mt.22:13 teach the pagan hellfire.

Matthew 22:13 describes those who are not prepared for the illustrative 'marriage feast' (Mt.22:1). These ones suffer spiritual 'darkness', and weep and gnash their teeth in anguish realising their missed oportunity and poor spiritual condition.

No where in Matthew 22 is the word 'hell' found.
---David8318 on 8/24/12


Mark V, Wrath simply means anger, We saw God's wrath in the flood,Sodom and Gommorah, Egypt etc...
When the earth was flooded did God continue to drown the people without letting them die? Did He keep raining down fire in Sodom without letting the people die? Or In Egypt?
Can you not see He established a pattern , kill the wicked completely and get on with the living. That, Mark is mercy and love! Torture pleases no one.
Why is the military not allowed to torture prisoners??
---1st_cliff on 8/24/12


duane, like you, I cannot believe a genuine Christian would believe he is without sin. That he is perfect. That when Scripture tells us, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8). That somehow the truth is in them and Scripture is wrong.
You do not have to believe in the lake of fire. That God brings justice on the wicked, or that the fire does not stop. That there is no wrath of God at all because He is love.
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness" (Rom. 1:18). Are you saying, "What is Truth?"
---Mark_V. on 8/24/12


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Cant believe a christian would believe in a God that torments people for ever and ever with no end. There is no love that would do such things or would believe such things from a loving God.
He who believes such has a warped and evil mind.
---duane on 8/23/12


Gordon, Yes I have a healthy fear of God's wrath but that's not the reason for my belief!
Consider, we are made in God's image,in a much lesser way.Now neither you or I would inflict endless pain on another human being regardless of how angry they made us, and we don't have near the patience and mercy that He displays.
Ending a person's chances for everlasting life is penalty enough,why would anyone want eternal torture?
Especially a loving God? What good does it accomplish???
---1st_cliff on 8/23/12


1st Cliff, You're right about GOD being a God of Love and Mercy beyond compare. But, you're not relaying the complete Image of GOD, Cliff. HE is also a GOD of Vengeance and Wrath as well as One of Love and Mercy. GOD is angry with the wicked everyday, the Bible says, Cliff. JOHN 3:36 says that those who do not believe on HIS Son shall not see Life (in Heaven) but, GOD's Wrath and Anger will abide Forever on them, the Damned. You pick and choose what YOU want to believe and hear, Cliff. You fear Eternal Damnation so you deny it. Your ignorance about Damnation will someday bite you back on the rear-end if you don't WAKE-UP and get with it.
---Gordon on 8/23/12


Gordon/Leon, You must have suffered bad experiences in your life in order to hold such a mean and vengeful belief that sinners must suffer excruciating pain forever!
The followers of Islam hold a similar belief that evil ones are continually scalded by boiling water, given boiling water to drink and beaten with iron clubs etc..
Most pagan religions have some degree of torture connected to the "after life"
The Christian God is one of love and mercy beyond compare!
---1st_cliff on 8/23/12


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I never said you were. But I DID say I've heard the same thing from SDA.

interesting contradiction from your original post that is not what you wrote

\\ 2) your information is unscriptural\\

You're not so deluded that you think that YOUR information is scriptural, do you?


Yes my information is scriptural. I quoted from scripture. You have not quoted from scripture making you the deluded one. I follow the Lord Jesus apparently you follow yourself and believe your words hold more weight than the Lords

I'll leave you with your charades

peace
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/22/12


So Mark being dead means being alive in pain. Many people have welcomed death for it brings an end to pain.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death, but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The wicked die the second death in the lake of fire. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Dr. Fudge a non sda wrote the book The Fire that Consumes you should read it.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/22/12


Mark V,Deut.30.19 ""I have set before you life and death,blessings and curses.Now choose life that you and your children will live"
The wicked would have to be alive in order to suffer, life comes as a gift from God. Death is the ultimate price for sin.
Seems that's not enough for the vengeful,they want sinners to stay alive so pain can be inflicted ,like the sadists they are! God is LOVE and Mercy!
Have compassion like God does!
---1st_cliff on 8/22/12


\\surprise another non-fact finding mission aborted because 1) I'm not sda\\

I never said you were. But I DID say I've heard the same thing from SDA.

\\ 2) your information is unscriptural\\

You're not so deluded that you think that YOUR information is scriptural, do you?


\\sorry to burst your all-knowing agenda charade.\\

Don't you just HATE it when people know more than you do?

\\ What is your agenda? \\

What's yours?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/22/12


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Follower, Gordon is correct the punishment is ever lasting. You said,
"The wicked do not have eternal life they have eternal death."

That is correct, they do not have eternal life with Christ. They have eternal death in the lake of fire. Separation from God. Death in this case spiritual death, separation from God and His blessings. And the term is ever lasting.
---Mark_V. on 8/22/12


This is one of the many word games played by the SDA on the subject.

if hell comes to an end, then heaven does too, because the SAME WORDS are used to describe the length of both.


surprise another non-fact finding mission aborted because 1) I'm not sda 2) your information is unscriptural

sorry to burst your all-knowing agenda charade. What is your agenda? nobody every posts anything right and you don't ever have scripture to share which denomination do you bow down to. Or are you part of the atheist trollers found here? ?
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/22/12


1st_cliff* Ask a local Rabbi today if they believed in a firey hell!

Ask a Rabbi if those who reject God's love will suffer torment like the book s of Wisdom and Tobit teah!



1st_cliff* Have you plucked out an eye or cut off a hand to insure your Kingdom entry?
FYI Jesus spoke in metaphors!

Which was my point about gashing teeth!
---Ruben on 8/22/12


\\ The verse states punishment not punishing. Punishment has an end. \\

This is one of the many word games played by the SDA on the subject.

if hell comes to an end, then heaven does too, because the SAME WORDS are used to describe the length of both.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/22/12


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1st Cliff, You rhetorically asked recently "Really is there 'any' statement in Revelation that is 'literal'???" And, to you, Cliff, I ask ARE YOU KIDDING? LOL! Do you really believe the things that you say and believe? Of course there are literal things in the Book of REVELATION, and your ignorance has convinced me even more about how wrong you really are in how you believe regarding Eternal Damnation. In the Book of REVELATION there are several things that are "literal", as well as there being things "metaphorical". You just have to have real Godly Discernment to be able to understand which-is-which. Which, here, you clearly don't. WAKE-UP, Cliff, the time is SHORT!
---Gordon on 8/22/12


Follower-of-Christ, You are saying that "punishment has an end", Well, what do you think the word "everlasting" was placed before the word "punishment" for? It indicates the duration of the Punishment! You say "punishment has an end" but, it doesn't have an end if it's EVERLASTING. "Everlasting Punishment" means that it's Punishment that will be everlasting, without end! Your attempt to play with words does not change the Truth of Eternal Damnation. Your fear of everlasting Torments and Damnation should compel you to move towards the Truth, not away from it by denying it.
---Gordon on 8/22/12


"True but the wicked go:

Matt 25:46-"And these will go away into eternal punishment , but the righteous into eternal life."


The verse states punishment not punishing. Punishment has an end. Punishing does not. These people have died and been resurrected to life and judged. And their judgement is not eternal life.

Once the wicked are burned up and destroyed (Matt 10:28) the punishment is everlasting because they are dead forever. It is an eternal (forever) punishment an eternal (forever) death. The wicked do not have eternal life they have eternal death. The punishment is forever because it ends with death.

Eternal life is only given to those who receive gift of salvation.
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/21/12


Ruben, **common beliefs held by the Jewish people**
There were Pharisees,Sadducees,Herodians, Zealots, Essenes to mention a few sects of Judaism 1st century who's beliefs were not in common!
Ask a local Rabbi today if they believed in a firey hell!
Have you plucked out an eye or cut off a hand to insure your Kingdom entry?
FYI Jesus spoke in metaphors!
---1st_cliff on 8/21/12


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1st_cliff* Ruben, As I have stated before (with no answer)does one get a new set of teeth in order to "gnash" because the originals are still in the coffin?

Jesus also said "Matt 18:8-"it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire."

Tell me cliff, do you still have your two hands and feet?

1st_cliff *Interestingly all pagan religions have their vesions of a firey hell (except Judaism!)


Flavius Josephus, (c. AD 3797) from his book 'war on Jews' mentions the common beliefs held by the Jewish people and they concide with Jesus parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Lk 16)
---Ruben on 8/21/12


Ruben, As I have stated before (with no answer)does one get a new set of teeth in order to "gnash" because the originals are still in the coffin?
Isn't eternal death eternal punishment???
Have you experience "utter darkness" by a fire??? (unless the smoke is more dense than the flame)
But that would be a lake of smoke.
Interestingly all pagan religions have their vesions of a firey hell (except Judaism!)
---1st_cliff on 8/21/12


- Eternal life is given only to the righteous, not the wicked, Ro.6:23.

- Burning people is not in God's heart, Jer.7:31.
---David8318 on 8/20/12

David,

True but the wicked go:

Matt 25:46-"And these will go away into eternal punishment , but the righteous into eternal life."

And:

Matt 22:13-"Bind him hand and foot, and cast him into outer darkness, in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth "
---Ruben on 8/21/12


Gordon you stated "To be in a state of decay or passing away.", "To be destroyed, To come to nothing."

correct perish is to destroy however I am perplexed you then go on to add a whole lot more that contradicts what you stated above. It's as if you believe the first half of what you wrote because that is the true definition and yet at the very same time you have a new meaning that is completely different from the actual definition! Interesting to see utter confusion in one post!! Now I understand why you hold your denominational views so dearly because your denomination teaches you to accept new meanings for words (a necessity) if they are to make you adopt their doctrines of devils about purgatory and hell.
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/21/12


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There is way more to "perish" than what you showed, Cliff. To "perish" means "To depart wholly". "To waste away.", "To wither and decay.", "To be in a state of decay or passing away.", "To be destroyed, To come to nothing.", "To be wasted or rendered useless.", "To be injured or TORMENTED.", "To be lost eternally and To be sentenced to ENDLESS MISERY." While in Hell and the Lake of Fire, one does not know true Life, all they know is constant pain, regret and misery. They are no better than worthless garbage. For their sins have corrupted them so. They are finally reaping the eternal consequences for their rebellion and sin.
---Gordon on 8/21/12


Gordon,
**souls will never cease to be alive**
#1 Soul (Heb nephesh Gr.psyche) is mentioned more than 800 times in scripture not once saying immortal, deathless or never dieing..so Gordon why do you believe the above statement??
#2 Perish (dictionary) to pass away, dissapear!
Really is there "any" statement in Revelation that is "literal"???
What was the general concesus of "hell" before John wrote Rev. 1st century CE??? in highly figurative language.
---1st_cliff on 8/20/12


1st Cliff, Leon gave you true Verses. Now, please show all of us Biblical proof that the "perish" of JOHN 3:16 means "Annihilation" rather than it being wishful thinking on your part, as well as on the part of any other who believes that way. What DOES the "smoke of their Torment ascendeth up Forever and Ever" MEAN? What does "...and they have NO REST day nor night,..." MEAN, from REV. 14:11? And, also "...AND SHALL BE TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER." What does THAT mean, Cliff?
---Gordon on 8/20/12


According to Websters Dic., "hell" is from the word 'helan', meaning 'to conceal'.

Originally, the word 'hell' meant not torment, but to conceal. In old English, the expression 'helling potatoes' meant not to roast them, but to put them in the ground or the cellar.

The pagan 'Hell-fire' doctrine is found in all false religions. It is the single most potent false religious doctrine driving atheism today. Many ask me 'how can God be love, and burn people mercilessly in fire'?

Thankfully, 'hellfire' is not a Bible teaching.

- Sinners are acquitted of their sin at death, Ro.6:7

- Eternal life is given only to the righteous, not the wicked, Ro.6:23.

- Burning people is not in God's heart, Jer.7:31.
---David8318 on 8/20/12


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"Leon, **living dead** is an ambiguous statement unless it's figurative (which it is)
In that condition you are as good as dead as far as God is concerned[?]..."
---1st_cliff on 8/20/12


Once more you're running head long towards the cliff, Cliff with your same old, oftentimes repeated, dead argument: It's only ambiguous (left to one's private interpretation) if you choose not to believe & refuse to understand the whole of Scripture correctly. Instead of trying to put your words into God's mouth, you'd do well to put His words into your heart so you may begin to understand His truth.
---Leon on 8/20/12


1st Cliff, That's right! What I believe and know to be true is, indeed, contingent on the fact that souls will never cease to be alive. That's how GOD made the soul. That's why the "smoke of their Torment (of the Damned) will ascend up forever and ever, because the fire that produces the smoke will be burning it's fuel (the Damned) forever and ever. And, "Hell" = "hole in the ground"? Many dead bodies are not buried in the ground. And, (AGAIN) 6-feet under is NOT the "center" of the Earth. (You're so funny, Cliff)
---Gordon on 8/20/12


Leon, **living dead** is an ambiguous statement unless it's figurative (which it is)
In that condition you are as good as dead as far as God is concerned and do not merritt a resurrection when (after) death actually occurs.
At that point your name is not written in the book of life. Same as "let the dead bury the dead"
Only pagans believe that humans never die!
Jn.3.16 says "perish" out of existence (same place you were before you were born!
---1st_cliff on 8/20/12


It's a helluva thing to be "living dead" in your transgressions & sin Cliff.

Ephesians 2:1

NIV:
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions & sins.

NLT:
Once you were dead because of your disobedience & your many sins.

ESV:
And you were dead in the trespasses & sins.

NASB:
And you were dead in your trespasses & sins.

KJB (Cambridge Ed.):
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses & sins.

ISV:
You used to be dead because of your offenses & sins.

ASV:
And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses & sins.
---Leon on 8/19/12


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\\cluny you suggested in your first post hades was not the ground because people were also not buried in the ground and I'm deflecting?\\

But I never said that to start with.

You've gone from deflecting to saying falsehoods.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/19/12


Gordon,Your whole belief system is contingent on a false premise that the dead don't really die!
A dead person would have to be still alive to fit your scenario!
Remember it was the serpent that said "You will not surely die" and the scripture that says "the dead know nothing" Eccl.9.5!
Isn't it obvious which one you believe?
This is not a "put down" Gordon, but one of the 1st scriptures I learned was "The wages of sin is death" Rom.6.23.
---1st_cliff on 8/19/12


Follower_of_Christ, If Hell is really just "a hole in the ground" where the dead bodies are buried", then, what about those who die in their sins, those who are Damned, but, whose bodies are not "buried in the ground" but, have drowned and their bodies are lost and decomposed in the waters? What about Christians who are cremated, not buried? What about Believers who are buried in Mosoleums, buried in an above-the-ground tomb? According to YOUR belief, those people who have died, and were UNSAVED, who are headed for Damnation, will not be in "Hell", since they were not "buried in a hole in the ground", but, their bodies ended up elsewhere at death. So, where did they go, if not in "Hell"?
---Gordon on 8/19/12


1st Cliff, The Rich Man in Hell could see Lazarus in Paradise, because, up until the Crucifixion of YAHUSHUA (MATTHEW 27:52-53) those who died in Faith went to a Paradise side of Hell below, called Abraham's Bosom. It was not all a Hell of Torments as it is today. There was a division, a great gulf fixed, between the Hell of Torments and the Believer's Paradise. One could not cross over to the other's side. When YAHUSHUA was crucified and arose, those in Paradise below were taken up to what is now called the Third Heaven, in GOD's Presence. And the Hell of Torments below became enlarged. It became completely a Hell of Torments. At the time of this Story in LUKE 16, Paradise was still below, in Hell, BUT, separated from the Damned.
---Gordon on 8/19/12


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cluny you suggested in your first post hades was not the ground because people were also not buried in the ground and I'm deflecting? interesting because you don't even understand or grasp what your wrote because you deflected holy scripture with your comment. My rewording what you wrote to understand it further you use as a charade!! your not looking to contribute to the post be honest with yourself really.

hell is not a destination it is simply the burial where the body resides at death whether in the ground, above ground, in a tomb, or frozen in a capsule (cryogenics) if someone adds philosophical mythical stories to hell they have a new meaning outside of holy scripture
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/19/12


\\cluny your suggestion a body not in the ground will not eventually turn to dust? interesting then you hold an ignorant view of decomposition!!\\

Please quote exactly where I said a dead body does not decompose over time, FoC.

You have a way of attributing to me and others things I (or others)never said.

Is this your way of deflecting?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/19/12


Dear Cluny that is a false Christians. When a person in the United States points up it is in one direction but a person in China pointing up is in the opposite direction. They are still both pointing up.

A person, who is dead, no matter where there body is, lies asleep in death. They have no conscious thoughts. We look forward to the resurrection of the dead. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/19/12


cluny your suggestion a body not in the ground will not eventually turn to dust? interesting then you hold an ignorant view of decomposition!! a body left in a sepulcher, or out in the open, or in a grave will all decompose at some point if left to its own devices. The degree of decomposition and the speed are based on its locale. However, adding chemicals or cocktails of "juices" would make preserving the body for longer periods even centuries possible. Whatever man makes up about hell, or how definitions vary slightly upon translation, or philosophical stories adopted by religion are all in vain. God said all return to dust I believe him.
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/18/12


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\\hebrew is sheol and greek is hades both have the same meaning a grave otherwise known as a hole in the ground\\

But many of our dead are immured, that is, placed in a mausoleum, and not a hole in the ground.

The temporarily dead body of Jesus was placed on an arcosolium, and not a hole in the ground.

How does this fit with your definition of Hades?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/18/12


hell is the grave, the hole in the ground that a body is placed in and covered. several centuries ago hell's meaning of the grave was also the same meaning for planting in the ground, hebrew is sheol and greek is hades both have the same meaning a grave otherwise known as a hole in the ground. The translation to english from these words is hell having the same meaning as sheol and greek (a hole in the ground). Every person who has ever lived is in hell right now because their bodies returned to dust. The Lord is the first fruits of many and is the only human to be resurrected to spirit. When The Lord Jesus returns then the first resurrection will happen. meanwhile all are waiting in hell
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/17/12


Gordon, According to your calculation then hell is 6,000 miles down (since the earth is some 12,700 miles wide at the equator)
How could the Rich man see Abraham in heaven? Can you identify anything at 6K miles? (through dirt and rocks) xray vision perhaps.
Jonah's 3 days in the fish (not a whale) were prefiguring Jesus' 3 days in the tomb!"heart of the earth"was just an expression not an exact location!
---1st_cliff on 8/17/12


YAHUSHUA (JESUS) said, in MATTHEW 12:40 "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so, shall the Son of man be Three Days and Three Nights in the HEART of the Earth." "Heart" here, means "the center of". The "center of the Earth". 6-feet under would not be considered to be the "heart" or "center" of the Earth". And, in EPHESIANS 4:9, it speaks of YAHUSHUA, "(Now that He ascended i.e. Returned to the Father in Heaven), What is it but that He also DESCENDED first into the LOWER PARTS of the Earth?" The "lower parts of the Earth" and the "heart of the Earth" are the same places.
---Gordon on 8/17/12


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The word "Hell" comes from a root word which means to "hide" or "conceal". That is appropriate, because Hell is below the Earth's surface. Hell is, in fact, in the "heart" of the Earth. It is a place that is "hidden" under the earth's surface. It's view is "concealed" from the naked human eye. At His Death on the Cross, YAHUSHUA (JESUS) descended to the "heart of the Earth", below, to the Paradise side of Hell (Paradise is now in the Presence of GOD, in the Third Heaven.) There, He took back the Keys of Hell and Death and preached the Good News to the captives in Paradise!
---Gordon on 8/17/12


1st Cliff, Let's try this again with DEUTERONOMY 32:22. DEUTERONOMY 32:19-22 starts out with Moses talking, but, then, Moses continues by QUOTING Almighty GOD's OWN WORDS starting in Verse 20. In Verse 20 Moses himself starts out by saying "And HE (GOD) said, (GOD's own Words here) I will hide MY Face from them, I will see what their end shall be...They have moved ME to jealousy...For a Fire is kindled in MINE Anger, and shall burn to the lowest Hell..." Those are GOD's own Words, Cliff, not Moses'. And, there ARE different degrees of Torment and Punishment in Hell. Each according to their own sins. WAKE-UP, Cliff. You're still asleep!
---Gordon on 8/17/12


According to my on-line dictionary bug, which I admit should be used with caution, both "hole" and "hell" come from an Indo-European root meaning "to hide or conceal."

A tip of my horns to 1stCliff for getting me to look these words up.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/17/12


In Revelation 14:9-10, it says, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb." So, people will be tormented by "fire and brimstone". They will not be unconscious. And ones will "have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone" > Revelation 21:6-8 > if you think you can sleep through that . . . "the Alpha and the Omega" does not say they will be sleeping!
---willie_c: on 8/17/12


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From the German "hoelle" comes our word "hole" ,like hole in the ground where people are buried!
Hoelle had/has no connection to fire in fact it (Heb.sheol) is translated grave 31 times in the OT.
Hades comes from Greco-Roman mythology 4 compartments of the netherworld where the evil are punished.
Add the fire of Gehenna and voila= a hot hell!
Of course belief in the pagan myth that the dead are still alive is necessary to believe in a hot hell!
---1st_cliff on 8/16/12


It seems to be a cognate of the German word HOELLE, which itself means both place of eternal punishment and grave.

FWIW, in Norse mythology, the Queen of the Underworld, corresponding to the Graeco-Roman Persephone, was named Hela.

Think there's a connection?

There are ways to search for etymologies on line.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/16/12


From the Hebrew word SHEOL, the unseen state, [also: the grave or the pit]

From the Greek word Hades, the unseen world

From the Greek word GEHENNA, the place of torment

From the Greek word TARTARS, the infernal region
---Blogger9211 on 8/16/12


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