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Explain Matthew 5:17-18

Why do some Christians claim that the Ten Commandments have been eliminated, when Jesus said that they would not be altered while heaven and earth remain (Matthew 5:17, 18)?

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 ---jerry6593 on 8/19/12
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If you will look in your Topical Bible under the heading of criminals.
---pat on 11/13/12


I AM NOT A GOSPEL PREACHER!
---pat on 11/13/12


"every single lost man is a criminal, and will remain to be so, unless God pardons, forgives you through His Blood." pat

I do not mean to throw cold water in your assessment of the fallen man before the eyes of God. But the very word Scripture uses is "SINNER" and not "criminal". "SINFUL" is the opposite and contrary of "HOLY", and that's what the fallen man is before the Almighty God of heaven and earth.

Christ came into this world "to die for the SINS of His people" Matthew 1:21 and not for the "crimes" of His people. "SIN" has only one punishment, and that's "DEATH".
---christan on 11/13/12


"Death came in because Adam disobeyed God's 1 command to him. He ate the fruit." g

"Disobedience" to God isn't a SIN? There must then be a "law" in place to highlight sin or else, why did God punished and cursed Adam and his posterity?

Genesis 2:16 "And the Lord God COMMANDED the man...", do you know what's the meaning when God "commanded the man"? Simply, the law is now laid down and it's in play. Hence Adam had to die because of his UNBELIEF in God's warning which he acted out in disobedience, which is called SIN.

You don't even understand why death was created to begin with. As for your cohort kathr, it's not worth talking with her anymore.
---christan on 11/13/12


"...that even though people committed sin before Moses gave the actual law, it wasn't counted against them until then" JackB

And what doctrine is this you're advocating? That those who died before Moses received the law, they are all in Paradise now with the saints? And that's because "it wasn't counted against them"?

Pharaoh and his army were destroyed by God before the ten commandments was given to Moses. Are you going to tell us Pharaoh's destruction by God was an accident? That his sin of defiance and unbelief in God's prophet, "wasn't counted against them until the law was given to Moses"?

WOW! kathr must be real proud of you!
---christan on 11/13/12




Isn't it interesting. Man can breal God's laws down here and go unpunished. We are more concern with breaking man's laws than God's laws. They say he has broken no laws. That is a lie. The point I am trying to make is every single lost man is a criminal, and will remain to be so, unless God pardons, forgives you through His Blood. No criminals allowed in heaven. Must be exonerated. [the moral man]. I don't do this and I don't that. But, God says, "But you do this". Point your fingers at yourself.
---pat on 11/13/12


These scriptures may help in your discussion! Hebrews 3:7-8 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, Today if ye will hear his voice,Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:Ezekiel 20:16-17 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.Nevertheless mine eye spared them from destroying them, neither did I make an end of them in the wilderness.Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest to the people of God.
---J_Marc on 11/13/12


I think you're very wrong here Christan.

It seems clear to me that Romans 5 means that even though people committed sin before Moses gave the actual law, it wasn't counted against them until then. Yet man still had a limited life span because of Adam's sin.

Although there is a hint that people in the old days knew what was ceremonially acceptable for sacrifices scripture never clearly defines that a MORAL law was given and that man was condemned for breaking it until the time of Moses.(other than the command to not eat of the one tree).

Speculating about scripture isnt a good thing.
---JackB on 11/13/12


Until we have "eaten the whole BOOK" we cannot know. Yes, some is still sweet here and bitter there, you know, like it tasted to John when he was told to eat the whole Book. But we thank Almighty GOD for it ALL!

Anyway, Matthew 5:17-18 makes it so plain that it is impossible for the ten commandments to pass away, thank GOD! Almighty GOD did not destroy HIS law, it is here, and always will be. It is contained and fulfilled in Mark 12:30-31, Romans 13:8-10. Don't you see how we should pity those who shall stand before Almighty GOD, but not in fulfillment of HIS law? Just asking.
---dorothy_sanders on 11/13/12


Christan, Kathr is right.
Death came in because Adam disobeyed God's 1 command to him. He ate the fruit.

But the 10 commands given to Moses did not exist between Adam and Moses.

The 10 were not given to Adam. Adam was given only one rule and he broke it.


now back to blog ?....
The have not been taken away. simplly condenced into 2 commands. Christ says that on those 2 ALL the law hangs.
If we obey those 2, we have obeyed ALL the law.
So, Love God 1st and love your neighbor as you love yourself.
By the way, loving includes not judging what day a person chooses to worship God on. It is not the day that matters. It is the WHO that matters...GOD.
---g on 11/13/12




Kathr, don't you get tired of complaining? Don't you have something better to do? you sure have a big mouth and all you do is complain, and complain. People here get tired of hearing your raving every single day. Take a shower, maybe that will cool you up, and clean you.
---John on 11/13/12


The Ten Commandments have not been abolished. If we read Matthew 22 verses 37 - 39 we see that they are all to be kept. The Ten were condensed into two by Jesus. By keeping those two we will be keeping the ten.

If anyone here doesn't know what it is I refer to just read the verses.
---Rita_H on 11/13/12


---What rubbish!
---christan on 11/12/12


WOW, your total ignorance of scripture is showing, and to think of calling the Word of God RUBBISH!!

That's exactly what God said christan, deal with it...or better yet, if YOU don't understand it, THEN YOU rewrite scripture to satisfy your lack of understanding...and I bet you come up with a false doctrine like all who re-write scripture to satisfy themselves.

God forbid you would just take God at His Word, and then ask God to explain it too you. Ya know, if you did, YOU just might learn something the Holy Spirit wants to teach you...but ON NO, you would ever do that..YOU have all the answers ..right christan.!
---kathr4453 on 11/12/12


kathr, how did this turned into a tall and short man issue? Stick to the issue is all I can say and stop throwing smoke bombs and making yourself out to be the "victim" after you have lied.

Back to the issue, if there's "NO LAW between Adam and Moses", was mankind dying before the ten commandments was given to Israel? If there were, why?

Answer: "The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law." 1 Corinthians 15:56. That is, the "law" God gave in Eden to Adam was in effect! "for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Your "theory" is proven foolish let alone your understanding of Romans 5 and the entire Bible.
---christan on 11/12/12


"There is NO LAW stating men should not eat any fruit from a certain tree TODAY..." kathr

That ONE TEST was done with in Eden! God's not testing anyone anymore as He did with Adam. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law." Romans 5:12.13

Was sin imputed? Of course! But why? Because the law came into effect when God commanded Adam to be obedient and we know how that went...

And you say, "From Adam to Moses there was NO LAW. Sin could not be imputed to man because there was NO LAW." What rubbish!
---christan on 11/12/12


Christan, why are you always standing with fists up ready to punch like some "SHORT MAN" mentality? You do know what that is. Short men have a complex about being short, so in order to make themself feel really TALL, they feel they have to fight all the time to Prove themselves.

Did you read Romans 5? Did you not READ what God said?

There is NO LAW stating men should not eat any fruit from a certain tree TODAY...

If they ate from that particular tree, that only one and only tree tehy were told tehy would DIE...Period !

Because of what THEY DID "death" passed on to ALL HUMANITY regardless PERIOD!

God is not unjust in any way shape or form. Only in your unspiritual mind!
---kathr4453 on 11/12/12


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DEEDS & WORKS of the law were done away with NOT the COMMANDMENTS of God! Romans 3:20 Therefore by the DEEDS of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the DEEDS of the law.Galations 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the WORKS of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the WORKS of the law: for by the WORKS of the law shall no flesh be justified.Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,
---J_Marc on 11/12/12


"From Adam to Moses there was NO LAW. Sin could not be imputed to man because there was NO LAW." kathr

You've got to be kidding! If there was no law between Adam to Moses, then God must be the most unjust of all unjust to have cursed Adam "dust you are, dust you shall return".

This was the very first LAW from God to man, "And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Genesis 2:16,17

The law and the consequence of disobedience to God's command was all wrapped up in these two verses!
---christan on 11/12/12


franscis,

Don't blame me for what God wrote in Romans 5...

Romans5:
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/12


Matthew 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


How exactly is the LAW FULFILLED?

Nothing here about being or not being altered.

The Earthly Kingdom reign of 1000 years was also PROMISED under the LAW.

Galatians 5:22-24
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/12


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The blood ordinances that were against us were nailed to the cross not the law of God! Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,

Matthew 15:8-9 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
---J_Marc on 11/12/12


From Adam to Moses there was NO LAW. Sin could not be imputed to man because there was NO LAW.
---kathr4453 on 11/11/12

You surely have missunderstood that passage:

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

If there were no laws, what commandments, statutes, and laws was abraham keeping and teaching his children:

Here are some examples:
Genesis 13:13 But the men of Sodom.. sinners before the LORD exceedingly.
NO LAW NO SIN

Genesis 39:9 how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

So you did missunderstand that passage
---francis on 11/11/12


LAWLESSNESS! Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that practice LAWLESSNESS.
2nd Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that LAWLESS one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
---J_Marc on 11/11/12


It's easy here to see who never read or believes Romans 5.

From Adam to Moses there was NO LAW. Sin could not be imputed to man because there was NO LAW.

Then from Moses to Christ their was the Law, given to Israel AS A SCHOOLMASTER TOO to bring us to Christ.

Now from Christ to TODAY there is no Moses and Christ, there is CHRIST ALONE.

No more sacrifice for sin, so if you reject CHRIST ALONE you have trampled underfoot the Son of God, making common the Blood of the Covenant, and INSULTED the Spirit of GRACE.

I LIVE by the Faith of Christ...I am CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST.

Those Crucified with Christ don't need to Law as a CRUTCH to make void the Grace of God.

Galatians 2:20-21
---kathr4453 on 11/11/12


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You know, not a single one of your posts here say one word about the CROSS, or the Power of The CROSS or being Crucified with Christ, or being buried with Christ in death and raised a New Creation, AND IN DOING SO have DIED TO THE LAW.

Romans 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ, that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


2:19
For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am Crucified With Christ,


No follower, it is I who can tell who denies the CROSS here.
---kathr4453 on 11/11/12


I'm not "Calvinist", I'm not SDA, I do not sacrifice animals. I do keep the 10 commandments. 1 Cor 7:19 "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God." For those who don't want to canonize Paul's writings: I John 5:2 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments." Ezek 20:21 "Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them, they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness."
---J_Marc on 11/11/12


The law, all the law as given to Moses(man), was never and will never be eliminated!
It's the only way to know for sure, you are a transgressor of the law!
Without the law there can be no transgression!

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:
for by the law is the knowledge of sin!


So, if you think you're doing the law or upholding it!
You have not yet been convicted by the law.
You are yet in your sins!

Forgiveness is for transgressor(sinners)!
How can you be forgiven, if you have not been convicted?
The truth and the way of peace, you have not known.

Truth is everyone's been convicted by the law(1Ti_1:8!)
Peace
---TheSeg on 11/10/12


The LAW, that is the Law of Moses was filfilled In Christ PERIOD!
---kathr4453 on 11/10/12

Use your bible to make a difference between THE LAW OF MOSES and THE LAW or
COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

Deuteronomy 10:2 Law of God
Exodus 31:18 Law of God
Deuteronomy 5:6-22 Law of God
Deuteronomy 4:12-13 Law of God
Jeremiah 7:22-23 Law of God


Deuteronomy 4:14 Law of Moses
Malachi 4:4 Law of Moses
Deuteronomy 31:24-26 Law of Moses

When you are finished, ask yourself under which of the law laws does this one fall:
Isaiah 66:22-23
---francis on 11/10/12


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easy to determine who are followers of Lord Jesus by those who obey his 10 laws

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things, and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

God is the lawgiver: James 4:12

Followers of the Lord obey God through the gift of his spirit: 1 Peter 1:22
"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit ..."

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

you can only love the Lord if you obey, and the Father and the Lord only love those who obey: John 14:15, 21

God will have vengeance on those who do not obey: 2 Thessalonians 1:8
---Follower_of_Christ on 11/10/12


Well, News Flesh.

The LAW, that is the Law of Moses was filfilled In Christ PERIOD!

NO ONE again NO ONE is bound by any law of Moses PERIOD unless one chooses out of ignorance to be bound by it!

In Adam ALL DIED and no where was Adam/Eve put under the LAW. If that were a fact then we would see them keeping the Sabbath day, just like the SDA's believe. Yet, when that is brought up...then OH NO, the Law was Given only to Israel...


They lived by FAITH as all before the flood lived by FAITH. They looked forward to the Promise of a redeemer Genesis 3:15 as did all after that.

Even the LAW DID NOT do away with the promise given to Abraham 400 years prior to the Law.


What a mess!
---kathr4453 on 11/10/12


--the law was fulfilled by Christ for all those who put their faith in Him. Only for them. All the rest of Adam's descendants are under the Law and condemned already. --Mark_V. on 11/9/12

So, MarkV, are you saying those who are lost God put under the Law? You mean the LAW of Moses Correct?

So God put Israel under the Law of Moses, it was because they were condemned already correct. Just like the Gentiles were condemned already correct?

So the Law of Moses was "punishment" for all mankind everywhere until Jesus fulfilled the Law for ??? The elect?? and everyone else, including Gentiles still remains under the Law of Moses w/animas sacrifice and all for punishment, Including being stoned for disobedience...correct?
---kathr4453 on 11/10/12


What is the least commandment? Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.Revelation 14:11-12 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
---J_Marc on 11/9/12


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Jerry, only you claim the Ten Commandments have been done away with. Only because you want to introduce Saturday Sabbath. It never fails, it is you or it is francis. Same old smoke screens you guys put out every time there is no blogs concerning SDA's teachings of the law.

Here let me help you, the law was fulfilled by Christ for all those who put their faith in Him. Only for them. All the rest of Adam's descendants are under the Law and condemned already.
"He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18).
---Mark_V. on 11/9/12


The Scribes and Pharisees, minded only the outside, but we must make conscience of inside godliness. They aimed at the praise and applause of men, but we must aim at acceptance with God: See, it's not a question of you accepting Jesus-cause everybody wants to go to heaven. Will Jesus accept you, cause, if He really wants you, He will get you. We trust only to the righteousness of God, and that is what makes us right with the living God. And heaven is only a breath away.
---pat on 11/9/12


Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ga 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

It is very good to have been redeemed by God's mercy and grace, by Him Who justifies the ungodly and bestows His own righteousness on them.

What a snare...

The only thing lawkeepers produce is judgmentalism and division in the Body of Christ.

Ga 3:10 Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
---Phil on 8/29/12


Because under the Law was the promise of teh Earthly Kingdom, and heaven and earth will not pass away UNTIL the Earthly Kingdom comes for 1000 years. THEN heaven and earth will in fact pass away and a New Heaven and earth will be.

EVERYTHING that was promised will in fact be fulfilled.
---kathr4453 on 8/29/12


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Patricia, thank you for your kind words. What we have here from some who worship on Saturday's is a continuing accusations that others do not obey God's commandments, but they do because they keep Saturday Sabbath. As if keeping Saturday Sabbath will save them, but the law never saved anyone. Sinners are saved not by keeping the Law, or keeping Saturday Sabbath, "but by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ works, not our works" They speak about the Holy Spirit and don't even believe they are made spiritually alive by the Holy Spirit. They think if a sinner is made alive together with Christ and doesn't keep Saturday Sabbath, they go back to been spiritually dead again. They are hypocrites like the Pharisees.
---Mark_V. on 8/28/12


Re: Matthew 5:17-18
Read what Paul said in (Colossians 2: 14-15) these verses in Colossians does not mean that He died spiritually and had to fight the devil in hell, that is false teaching. Jesus went to hell for two reasons. Read (Ephesians 4:8) Meaning He freed the souls in Paradise, read (Luke 16). Read (1 Peter 3:19) Meaning He preached to those chained in hell. These spirits refer to evil spirits. God always refer to humans as souls. We in ourselves cannot obey the commandments of God in our own strength but we are to put our trust in who Jesus is (God) and what He did (Cross).
---Patricia on 8/27/12


Follower_of_Christ
The Lord, and through him and the Holy Spirit as our guide we can overcome and keep Gods 10 holy just perfect laws.

I have to ask, are you also doing the law as well, keeping it as given to Moses. And yes, I know the law is Holy and the Commandment Holy!

And I want to be clear with you, here.
I am not saying YOU cannot keep it!
I am saying I cannot keep it.

So tell me are you keeping it as given to Moses?
Are you also a perfect and upright man?

Because this is written!
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Peace
---TheSeg on 8/27/12


Proverbs 4:4 ...Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.

Proverbs 7:1 My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

All Glory to the Father in Heaven who sent his son the Lord Jesus that we who are all sinners on earth have our high priest and mediator, The Lord, and through him and the Holy Spirit as our guide we can overcome and keep Gods 10 holy just perfect laws.
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/27/12


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No, francis!
I think I was pretty clear on the 8/24/12 post.
I also say KEEP HIS COMMANMENTS and SIN NOT!
DO it or shut-up!

It just that you as the perfect and upright man, you are!
Cant possibly understand anything a lowly sinner such as myself can say.

Like Christ said in Luk_16:26
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot, neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

All I can do is, repeat!
One crying in the wilderness!
Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low.
And all flesh shall see the salvation of God!
Peace
---TheSeg on 8/26/12


---TheSeg on 8/26/12
Let me see if I understand you correctly:
You are saying that we do not have to keep all ten commandments, we can choose to flat out refuse toobey anyone and yet we shall be saved by grace.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
---francis on 8/26/12


Do you think that one who chooses to obey 9/10 of the commandments and flat nut, defiantly refuses to obey 1/10 will be saved by God's grace?
francis

How else, if not by the grace of God?
In the same way, one who says I keep all the commandments will be saved!

Take someone who flat-out refuses to obey the commandment.
Even spiting on the ground in is his name, is there no help for him?
Psa_3:2 Many there be which say of my soul, There is no help for him in God. Selah.

Joh_12:47-48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him:
the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
---TheSeg on 8/26/12


The Law was not given to us, ever. It is Jewish,
---Phil on 8/25/12

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, .....
Isaiah 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, ....
Exodus 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, ....---francis on 8/26/12

Both you guys are correct....in part.
To Phil: The law was given to Israel...both houses not just the Judaic house. The Northern House was divorced/put away under the law. Judah was not put away, with her "sister". Judah does not equal = All Israel. Ever.

To Francis: 7+ Hebrew and Greek words are used for stranger. Searching which of type of stranger scripture is referring too provides witness context. Tieing scripture Alpha-Omega.
---Trav on 8/26/12


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"Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."
Did you keep all the commandments of God?
---Mark_V. on 8/26/12

This is a question you need to ask yourself, and if you arenot keeping all the commandments of God, then youneed to repent from your sin,a nd keep the commandments of God ALL OF THEM
---francis on 8/26/12


The Law was not given to us, ever. It is Jewish,
---Phil on 8/25/12


Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

Isaiah 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices [shall be] accepted upon mine altar, for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Exodus 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it
---francis on 8/26/12


francis, you keep giving passages to no avail. You write passages that say,
"Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."
Did you keep all the commandments of God? If you have you are perfect, and then we know the Truth is not in you.
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is not in us" (1 John 1:8). I guess the Truth is not in you. For I, and world know you have broken the law. You believe you are righteous because of you worship on Saturday as the Jews, but God judges the heart. Not the outward appearance.
---Mark_V. on 8/26/12


--trey having answered your question, may I ask you a question?

Do you think that God will save by Grace a person who refuses to obey the laws of God?

I am not asking about one who sin and repents, but one who reads the law of God and flat out refuse to obey the law of God. More specifically the ten commandments.

Do you think that one who chooses to obey 9/10 of the commandments and flat nut, defiantly refuses to obey 1/10 will be saved by God's grace?
---francis on 8/25/12


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Ps 147:19 He sheweth his...statutes and his judgments unto Israel... He hath not dealt so with any nation... they have not known them.

Ro 9:4 (My kinsmen)Who are Israelites, to whom pertaineth the adoption, the glory, the covenants, and the giving of the law.

Apart from Paul's evangel to the nations, there was no hope for us, the Gentiles Eph 2:12

The Law was not given to us, ever. It is Jewish, earthly, sin-magnifying and does not give life to dying men.

Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law...

The Holy Spirit said we, the nations, never had the Law. It is Jewish.

AV Ro 3:1 . What advantage then hath the Jew?chiefly because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
---Phil on 8/25/12


trey on 08/24/12

Because we sinned at one point in time, we cannot be saved by our own righteousness. We thus must accept the righteousness of Jesus. All it took was ONE ACT of sin, and we needed a savior.

We cannot be saved by any of our Good works, we can only be saved by the grace that is available through God / Jesus

But those who will be saved by his grace, are those who are obedient to the commandments of God. Those who remain rebellious cannot be saved

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things, and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him,
---francis on 8/25/12


I will always ask for everyone forgiveness, but not because I need to.
So, they know, they must!

Mark
It seems to me you've been telling them, there is no life in the law.
And they're clearly telling you, they have found life in the law.
Because, Christ said KEEP MY COMMANMENTS!
In fact, God told everyone on earth, KEEP MY COMMANMENTS!
There's no one on earth that can change this!

And this is why they believe they must!
I also say KEEP HIS COMMANMENTS and SIN NOT!
Rom_7:2 wouldn't want them to commit adultery!
But if their husband be dead, let them marry who they will.
Rom_7:4!

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Peace
---TheSeg on 8/24/12


francis, I know you love the law, and the law is a good thing. Once again, I have a few questions for you:

1. Do you believe following the law is what saves us eternally?

2. How do you interpret the following verse:
Ro11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

3. If following the law is neccesary to obtain eternal salvation doesn't that mean that our salvation is based upon our work?
---trey on 8/24/12


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You either follow Christ or you follow the law.
---Mark_V. on 8/24/12
If you are following Christ, should you:

Exodus 20:3 have other gods before me (God).

Exodus 20:4 make unto thee any graven image, and bow down to them,

Exodus 20:7 take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:

Exodus 20:13 kill.

Exodus 20:14 commit adultery.

Exodus 20:15 steal.

Exodus 20:16 bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Exodus 20:17 Covet

Does the spirit of the law, or Law of Christ lead you to do any of these things?
---francis on 8/24/12


You either follow Christ or you follow the law.
---Mark_V. on 8/24/12

Actually a foloower of christ both follows christ and keeps the law

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
---francis on 8/24/12


The idea that a christain is doomed to a life of sin, is not biblical.


Romans 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin, but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
---francis on 8/24/12


Follower, let me say that I don't know why you use the name Follower of Christ. You either follow Christ or you follow the law. You are under the Law, or you are under the Spirit of the Law. And here you speak nothing but the Law. We follow Christ, not the Law. We follow Christ because He along is perfect. Because of Him we are righteous before God. Nothing we do can make us righteous. Nothing. If you think you are worthy because you follow the law, then you are under the law. Obedience is never an option. But all who are in Christ are obedient to Christ. None are perfect not even you who speak of another Jesus. I don't follow a created Jesus who is equal to satan, My Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God. He is Divine.
---Mark_V. on 8/24/12


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Hi trey, I would like to clarify some scripture for you if I may.
Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Says God to Satan there is none like him in the earth, Go ahead and tempt him, try to get him to SIN

Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
---francis on 8/24/12


Hi Francis, I would like to clarify some scripture for you if I may.
Job was a good man, but he was also a sinner just like you and I. If he was not then Romans 3:23 is a lie.
In Job 1:1, and in Phil 3:15, the word "perfect" does not mean sinless. In both instances the word perfect means "pios, specifically gentle, upright, complete in moral character, etc." In other words, the word "perfect" describes a man of true Godly character.

Francis, my friend MarkV, whom I've never met, is speaking of Christ's sinless perfection.
Heb7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled (sinless), separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens,
---trey on 8/23/12


Only Jesus was perfect.
---Mark_V. on 8/23/12

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job, and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Mark_V hhhmmm you must be missing something
---francis on 8/23/12


You guys are a bunch of hypocrits. Do you give to the poor what is on your back? do you feed the hungry?

the high, the mighty, the proud, the boasting Christians who brag on and on about how they do so much for others while humming along to John Lennons all we need is love.

The Lord Jesus asked why do you call me Lord when you do not obey? and Mark says no way I'm tired of hearing about that "Everyday it is the same old thing, the laws, the old Testament passages, and on and on. The Lord and Apostles preached endlessly about those 10 laws many walked away in that day. Today they stay, complain, disobey and still claim they follow the Lord because their ministers teach lawlessness and preach doctrines of devils
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/23/12


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Jerry, why don't you just come out and say you are promoting Saturday Sabbath? Why all the laws? You cannot keep all of them yourself and none of the SDA's are perfect. They are sinners just like everyone else. Only Jesus was perfect. Everyday it is the same old thing, the laws, the old Testament passages, and on and on. You guys are a bunch of hypocrits. Do you give to the poor what is on your back? do you feed the hungry? All you do is talk about the Law to get to one point, Saturday Sabbath. And to this day you have not once given a passage where God said to keep Saturday Sabbath. Not one. Or, what day God start creation? You have no clue, but you keep talking about Saturday Sabbath. All the other stuff you say is just a smoke screen.
---Mark_V. on 8/23/12


Good point Patricia. The word fulfilled used in this passage means to make complete. Without the life, death and resurrection of JESUS the commandments would not be complete.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/22/12


Q: Commandments Eliminated?
Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill them. The commandments are still in effect but we can only hope to follow them by our faith in what Jesus did on the Cross (not our own power) because He was the one that obeyed the whole law. When He said "it is finished" He fulfilled the demands of the law with His Perfect Life and Sacrifice and also broke the power of the devil. He redeemed us from the curse of the Law..Galatians 3:13!
---Patricia on 8/22/12


Ecclesiastes 12:13 Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
---francis on 8/21/12

Your list of commandments is too small.

--Mark_Eaton on 8/22/12

Thanks 125 word limit and all
---francis on 8/22/12


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Ecclesiastes 12:13 Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
---francis on 8/21/12

Your list of commandments is too small.

John 13:34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another..."

1 John 2:8 "Again, a new commandment I write to you..."

1 thes 5:14-16 "Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you."
---Mark_Eaton on 8/22/12


The Christian walk is more comprehensive than mere rule obedience.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/21/12

How would you amend this text to fit you post?

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
---francis on 8/21/12


Rom_10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

It seems to me, people think the law was given to you. As if to say here something you can do.
Forgive me, but a lot of you are walking around with the law in your hip pocket.
So whenever the need strikes you, you pull them out and say see, here they are!

If youre really going to keep them, than start by keeping them out of the hands of children!
Because, if you dont feel you have been condemned by the law, then you have not submitted yourselves unto the righteousness of God.
The law is Holy!
Peace
---TheSeg on 8/21/12


Marc there are many Christians who say Gods holy perfect 10 laws are abolished and all that is needed to obey the Lord Jesus is love (the John Lennon version I guess). ask them why they promote that version it's not found in written word of God. Scrutinizing everything you do and say to all of scripture you would not have a life! The simplicity in the Lord Jesus is his 10 holy laws including the weekly holy sabbath day which he is Lord of. Afterall ife would be easier for the Jews when 613 laws were removed by the Lord! it is through the Lord Jesus that all things are possible with holy spirit that guides a follower of the Lord. By obeying 10 laws life is easier because these 10 laws are not grievous 1 john 5:3
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/21/12


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Could we be honest?

The issue here is not really the Ten Commandments, it is one specific commandment, number four, the commandment about the Sabbath.

No one I know says the Ten commandments are no longer in effect.

Rather, many I know say that the Christian life is many more commandments than the Ten and many more than the 613 I see listed also.

The Christian walk is more comprehensive than mere rule obedience. The Christian walk is a completely new lifestyle, 180 degrees different than the world and our former life. Everything I do, say, and think must be scrutinized against Scripture and the example of Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/21/12


Jesus wanted THE JEWS to know and understand that Mosaic law would always EXIS

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,

The laws of Moses (mosaic) were nailed to the cross. The Jews of today continue to keep these laws because they do not believe The Lord Jesus is the messiah as written in prophecy.

What was nailed to the cross for the Jews who follow the Lord Jesus are the 613 laws of Moses. The Jews of the Lords day who followed him understood these laws were taken out of the way by The Lord because the mosaic laws were contrary to Gods holy, just, and perfect 10 laws (his commandments).
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/21/12


Jerry, you say,

"Why do some Christians claim that the Ten Commandments have been eliminated,"

I have not heard anyone say that but you, why not ask yourself that question and then answer it.
---Mark_V. on 8/20/12


Jesus said that TO THE JEWS. Jesus wanted THE JEWS to know and understand that Mosaic law would always EXIST (but...'written in the stars' so to speak). Jesus came to "fulfill"/end the law.

Extremely few, if any, of the Jews ever understood anything more than Jesus-messiah ON THE CROSS. As part of their WORSHIP, they never included WITH TRUE UNDERSTANDING the "SPIRIT of holiness" the way WE are to do/live...

"for as yet the Spirit had not been given...." John 7:39.

All they SAW/understood was THE CRUCIFIXION, but never truly PERCEIVED/understood THE SPIRIT.

Mosaic law is still 'written in the stars', but is not meaningful to US, it was FULFILLED/ended for us if we live the spirit.
---more_excellent_way on 8/19/12


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These verses refer to the Law, not the Ten Commandments.
---chip on 8/19/12

Actually the key here are the examples of the law sites in the passage:

Matthew 5:21 Thou shalt not kill, :
Matthew 5:27 Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Matthew 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all, neither by heaven, for it is God's throne:

Do not kill, do not commit adultery, do not take God's name in vain, three from the ten commandments and expounded upon

Law of Moses: Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments. Not the ten commandments
---francis on 8/19/12


It means we submit to God.
---willie_c: on 8/19/12


These verses refer to the Law, not the Ten Commandments. The Law of Moses was made up of 613 commandments, not the 10 often cited as being important.

Verse 18 is the key, "until everything is accomplished". If this refers to Jesus' death and resurrection, then the Law passed away.
---chip on 8/19/12


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