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Prayer Back In School

Should prayer be brought back into school?

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 ---debbieoleary on 8/23/12
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\\Your use of text speech and digits for prepositions show you're not really serious about this adult matter.\\
---Cluny on 8/30/12


\\BTW, FoC......BCV, please.\\
---Cluny on 9/1/12


Now, I just thought that was funny
---James_L on 9/1/12


BTW, FoC, where do the prayers that the leader of your church says come from in the Bible?

BCV, please.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/1/12


\\where are the official orthodox Christian prayers located in Gods Holy Word?

Book and Chapter please\\

The Book of Psalms is read weekly.

Old Testament canticles are sung at Matins.

And then, of course, there's the Lord's prayer.

Every line of the Orthodox services quotes extensively from the Scripture.

Now. Doesn't it bother you to condemn things you clearly know nothing about?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/1/12


FoC, can you assure me that the prayers said in schools will be approved and official Orthodox Christian prayers EXCLUSIVELY?

where are the official orthodox Christian prayers located in Gods Holy Word?

Book and Chapter please.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/1/12


\\No wonder Christians today don't want prayer back in school. They are not really Christians at all.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/1/12\\

FoC, can you assure me that the prayers said in schools will be approved and official Orthodox Christian prayers EXCLUSIVELY?

That is the only condition I will allow prayers to be brought back to public schools.

And if you disapprove of these prayers, you are not a true Christian, FoC.

As far as claiming that Christians can be only politically conservative, political and cultural conservatism cannot save anyone. Only Jesus Christ can save, to Whom be glory.
---Cluny on 9/1/12




No wonder Christians today don't want prayer back in school. They are not really Christians at all.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/1/12

follower, that is not exactly true. i personally do not want my children led in prayer by those who have a warped view of who God really is.

given these days, i even feel uncomfortable praying in church with others because inevitably you are put in position to agree with something to which you do not agree and drift while you realize they are not praying to the same god.

therefore, i do not want prayer in school not because i am not christian. it is because i am a christian that does not want my children participating in today's evil.
---aka on 9/1/12


Should prayer be brought back into school?
---debbieoleary on 8/23/12
NO
This is not a theocracy. We have people of different religion, people who paay to different gods / God.

If you want prayer in schools, you must be willing to accept prayers of all kinds: prayers to Jehovah, Mary, Angels, various saints, Budda, Muhamid, Satan, Mithra, Shiva, Nature, and so on.


Matthew 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet,
---francis on 9/1/12


Wasn't that the theme of the final episode of seinfeld.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Romans 3:8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

Interesting Christians today call abortion good and those who oppose it evil.

No wonder Christians today don't want prayer back in school. They are not really Christians at all.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/1/12


\\Trying to stop legalized abortion is evil now? Wow Cluny, you really don't know right from wrong do you?
---Jed on 8/31/12\\

Jed, you really don't know me, but I'll tell you something about me.

I was named in a $39 MILLION law suit for merely praying across the street from the chop shops.

Slandering people is evil, Jed, and as I just said, I refuse to participate in your evil. Unfortunately, I can't stop you from popping off at the mouth--or fingers.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/1/12


The bible tells us if you stand by while someone does wrong and don't stop it, you are just as guilty for the sin as the person who actually did it. The bible tells us that when you do nothing you are a willing participant of evil.
---Jed on 8/30/12
Wasn't that the theme of the final episode of seinfeld
---francis on 8/31/12




Well, Jed, if it's any comfort to you, I refuse to participate in your evil.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/31/12

Trying to stop legalized abortion is evil now? Wow Cluny, you really don't know right from wrong do you?
---Jed on 8/31/12


I believe prayer should be brought back to school. Most of the posters here have not directly answered the question and I'm curious why? If you are a Christian why is it you would not take a stand and say prayer should be brought back to schools? There have been so many other topics introduced on this post which appears by not answering most Christians take a stand they don't care if prayer is brought back or don't want it brought back.
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/31/12


\\The bible tells us if you stand by while someone does wrong and don't stop it, you are just as guilty for the sin as the person who actually did it. The bible tells us that when you do nothing you are a willing participant of evil.\\

Well, Jed, if it's any comfort to you, I refuse to participate in your evil.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/31/12


jed,

could you please point out the scriptures that say this. it seems to me there are several stories that say the opposite. for instance, when jesus was being falsely arrested and peter cut of that dude's ear. peter did "something" and jesus told him not to. in fact, jesus said to let this evil happen. then, when in pontious pilates inquiry, jesus did or said nothing to stop the evil. so, is jesus also guilty of the evil arrest?

mitt or obama? either way...if you vote...you are guilty by your own words.
---aka on 8/31/12


Guilt by association is not a Christian concept, Jed.
---Cluny on 8/29/12

Actually it is. The bible tells us if you stand by while someone does wrong and don't stop it, you are just as guilty for the sin as the person who actually did it. The bible tells us that when you do nothing you are a willing participant of evil.
---Jed on 8/30/12


\\If you vote for liberals who support same-sex marriage and abortion then you have voted for it and supported it also and are not a christian.
---Jed on 8/29/12\\

Guilt by association is not a Christian concept, Jed.

In any case, who I vote for is none of your business.

And Jesus knows me (and for that matter, Trish) better than you, so your judgement of who is and who is not a Christian is meaningless.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/29/12


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If you vote for liberals who support same-sex marriage and abortion then you have voted for it and supported it also and are not a christian.
---Jed on 8/29/12

even though i am apolitical, this logic presents quite a conundrum for the "christian" conservatives. mitt romney is not a christian. if you vote for a non-christian, are you actually a non-christian?
---aka on 8/29/12


As more than one person has remarked, today's liberal is tomorrow's conservative.

As I've mentioned more than once, all of us are liberal in some ways and conservative in others.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/29/12


Not all "liberals" are for same-sex marriage, or for abortion.
---Cluny on 8/29/12

If you vote for liberals who support same-sex marriage and abortion then you have voted for it and supported it also and are not a christian.
---Jed on 8/29/12


\\But there are some things that you CAN'T be and still be a christian too. And one of those things is a liberal.\\

"Liberal" is a rather flexible term.

Not all "liberals" are for same-sex marriage, or for abortion.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/29/12


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Of course belonging doing any one thing or belonging to any group or party does not make anyone a christian. But there are some things that you CAN'T be and still be a christian too. And one of those things is a liberal. That would be like claiming that you are a satanist and a christian at the same time. Or a Nazi and a christian. It's an oxymoron. If you believe in legalized abortion and same-sex marriage (just to name a few things) than you do not believe in the bible and are not a christian. Simple as that.
---Jed on 8/29/12


\\Do you, like Obama, also disdain the National Day of Prayer but celebrate Ramadan with your Muslim friends?\\

You can verify for yourself with your favorite search engine that both the Washington Post and Christian Post said that Obama issued a proclamation that the National Day of Prayer would be on 3 May 2012.

OTOH, unlike you, jerry, I myself disdain the government telling me when I will pray and when I will not.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/29/12


Jerry: Obama has never done away with the National Day of Prayer. Do some Internet research for the truth. for the truth.

On another blog, I have apologized for inappropriate posts. I'd appreciate an end to the personal attacks on me, and my faith in Christ.
---Trish on 8/29/12


To Whom It May Concern,

Please stop calling people non Christians due to their political views, but instead stick to the actual blog discussion. Also cease from name calling. Thanks!
---Sara on 8/29/12


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**************

Trish: "For me to say that Bush is not a Christian is no different than for others here to say that Obama is not."

I agree that you are every bit the Christian that Obama is. You believe in marxist theft from the masses to enrich political cronies (aka, liberalism) and the mass murder of innocent children through abortion. Do you, like Obama, also disdain the National Day of Prayer but celebrate Ramadan with your Muslim friends?

**************
---jerry6593 on 8/29/12


Jed, Trish just apologized and I believe you owe her an apology? Political party does not dictate whether one is a Christian or not. Please be respectful.
---Jim on 8/28/12


Jim, thank you. I realize now that I was totally wrong to claim that Bush was not a Christian. Only God knows his heart, as He knows everyone else's. I should not have said what I said about him. I'm sorry that I did.
---Trish on 8/28/12


\\Jim, Trish is not a Christian. She has made it known repeatedly on these blogs that she is a hard core liberal.
---Jed on 8/28/12\\

Christianity is NOT the same thing as cultural conservatism or politics.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/28/12


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Jim, Trish is not a Christian. She has made it known repeatedly on these blogs that she is a hard core liberal.
---Jed on 8/28/12


Follower: you ability to read basic English is hindered terribly. I've repeatedly said that nobody is stoping any student from the free exercise of his/her faith

maybe Trish it is your inability to face reality. I never made mention of anyone not have the ability to say a silent prayer.
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/28/12


Trish, I am sorry that anyone would call your Christianity into doubt and would say they owe you an apology since their comments were inappropriate.
---Jim on 8/28/12


\\aka: I know Bush was not a Christian.\\
---Trish on 8/28/12

Same questions to you, Trish.

How did you determine that Bush is not a Christian and who appointed you to decide who is and who is not?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/28/12


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Jim, I have already been told that I'm not a Christian, many, many times. For me to say that Bush is not a Christian is no different than for others here to say that Obama is not.
---Trish on 8/28/12


Cluny already addressed AKA. However, regardless if AKA was addressed or not your post was inappropriate.
---Jim on 8/28/12


Cluny, you are correct. Anyone who thinks or believes he can see the heart of another person, because of the persons actions, should first look at his own actions and remove the log from his own eye before he can judge another persons heart. Evidence of bias sin in their hearts. Many would rather stab a brother or sister in the back, since they don't know who is their brother or sister.
---Mark_V. on 8/28/12


Jim: Why aren't you attacking aka with the same vehemence? He also said that Bush is not a Christian.
---Trish on 8/28/12


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Dear God - I mean Dear Trish,

How would you know whether President Bush is not a Christian? How would you like it if on these blogs someone wrote that you are not a Christian? An apology is due.
---Jim on 8/28/12


\\George W. Bush is not a christian.
---aka on 8/27/12\\

Two questions:

1. Why is Bush fils not a Christian?

2. Who appointed you to decide who is and who is not?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/28/12


aka: I know Bush was not a Christian. I also know that he was popular with the people in Christianet.
---Trish on 8/28/12


with the way today's teachers are, i thank God there is no prayer in public schools. although many of you believe so, George W. Bush is not a christian.
---aka on 8/27/12


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"We should not have teacher-led prayers in public schools, and school officials should never favor one religion over another, or favor religion over no religion" - President George W. Bush 2000
---Trish on 8/27/12


FoC and jerry: Are you two saying that "free exercise of religion" means "school forcing students to participate in devotions that do not correspond with their own faith"?

Please clarify.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/27/12


Almost forgot. I also worked with teachers who were Hindu, Buddhist, Jehovah's Witness. I suppose you would prefer that they lead the classes in prayer, especially the classes with your children or grandchildren. I am sure that would satisfy all you Constitutional experts concerning "the free exercise thereof."
---Trish on 8/27/12


Follower: you ability to read basic English is hindered terribly. I've repeatedly said that nobody is stoping any student from the free exercise of his/her faith. You have some sort of martyr complex. And instead of learning reality, you make up lies about me.

I had schools with Jewish and Muslim teachers and principals. I suppose you'd want them leading the corporate prayer.
---Trish on 8/27/12


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Jerry I agree. And to understand an educator is teaching the future generations of America with abundant ignorance of the constitution. I hope it is not a representation of all educators

Trish as for your statement to go live in a land of theocracy it is interesting you make an outlandish remark and indeed inept.
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/27/12


aka: I totally agree with you. If I am not mistaken, it is the parents' responsibility to teach their children the things of the Lord. My church prepares a devotional pack for parents to use with their children during the summer vacations.

If the parents did their job of praying with and for their children, it wouldn't be necessary to expect a secular institution to do the job for them. Same goes for the parents' marriages. It's as if a couple breaks up, and stops going to church, or taking responsibility for being a Christian parent since they are not part of a couple. One usually sticks with God, while the other gives up on everything.

Just my 2 cents.
---Trish on 8/27/12


hey, i have an idea!

school is not the foundation. prayer in school fell when the bottom fell out.

let's put prayer back in the churches, homes, heart before we worry about a natural progression.

before that, let's put prayer back into prayer...you know...thy will be done v. my will be done.
---aka on 8/26/12


Francis,NOBODY is stopping kids from praying silently.

Here, the public schools are closed on the two Jewish holidays in September, because of the large population of Jews in the students and teachers. Catholic kids are not marked absent when they go to spend the day preparing for their Confirmation and First Communion. School libraries are open during lunch for the Muslim students during Ramadan. Christian kids can meet at the pole, as my children did in high school. Student Venture can hold club meetings in the school after school, as well as other events.

NOBODY is preventing students and teachers from praying in the public schools. I've done it, and have had students who did it.
---Trish9863 on 8/26/12


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***************

Trish: Unless you are one of the many teachers who can't read, you should be able to read and interpret the phrase from the Constitution "or prohibit the FREE exercise thereof". Please do. You might even be able to search for that elusive "separation of church and state" comment in our founding documents. Good luck with that. Until then, we'll just let your own words show your ignorance.

***************
---jerry6593 on 8/26/12


Follower: I am not ignorant of the history of prayer being removed from the public schools. I also know that when it was removed it was declared UNCONSTITUTIONAL to have spoken prayers in the public schools.

We do not live in a theocracy. The Bible is not the law of the land. The Constitution is the law. As I stated earlier, I taught students of all faiths, and know for a fact that silent prayer is not forbidden.

If you want prayer in the public schools, move to a country with a theocracy.
---Trish on 8/25/12


\\Trish it is interesting you call Jerry ignorant when you are an educator who either is a dimwit or purposely evading the reality of prayer being taken out of public schools.\\

FoC, I've described what would happen if prayers came back into the schools. Do you approve of your children being forced to participate in non-Christian religious devotions?

I will support prayer in public schools if and only if Orthodox prayers are used EXCLUSIVELY.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/25/12


Jerry: Your insults are only superceded by you ignorance of reality. God is not kept out of schools.

Trish it is interesting you call Jerry ignorant when you are an educator who either is a dimwit or purposely evading the reality of prayer being taken out of public schools. In 1948 prayer was ended in schools. It was ended solely by the agenda of an open atheist Vashti McCollum. As an educator I would have thought you understood the history of prayer being removed from public schools. It is a shame someone is claiming they are an educator and are ignorant of the history of public school prayer being abolished.

Prayer should be brought back to public schools however with liberal immorality this would be unlikely.
---Follower_of_Christ on 8/25/12


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Jerry: Your insults are only superceded by you ignorance of reality. God is not kept out of schools. Christians are free to pray as much as they want as long as it does not interfere with the teaching or their participation in classes. You obviously ignore, or don't believe what I have posted. I taught in the public schools for 23 years. Christian kids are free to pray silently in class, corporately before or after school. Christian teachers, including me, gather before school to pray.
---Trish on 8/25/12


\\What does that have to do with rote prayer?
---Trish on 8/25/12\\

My point, which you were obviously missing, was that Jesus participated in prayers in the Synagogue and Temple, which were neither private nor extemporized.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/25/12


*************

Trish: Your suggestion that prayer be prohibited in the public forum is exactly the violation of the prohibition clause of the Constitution to which I was referring. God is not to be banned from our institutions, and Atheism become the de facto religion of the country. Such a concept is the brain child of Karl Marx. Our (US) founding documents cite GOD - not Bhudda or the Government as the source of our liberty. Our Congress opens each session with open, P.A. prayer to God (not Allah). Our Justice Dept. Building has the (Judeo-Christian) 10 Commandments depicted on its frieze.

You have been steeped so long in Marxist propaganda that you have lost your identity as an American.

***************
---jerry6593 on 8/25/12


Cluny: So what? You didn't even address the quote from my post. Jesus said that when we pray we should go into our prayer closet and pray in private. What does that have to do with rote prayer?
---Trish on 8/25/12


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"building a wall of separation between Church and State.

in context, it means the opposite of how it is used by atheists, agnostics, and others who wish to remove God from the public forum.
---aka on 8/24/12


\\, He said something about private prayer versus spoken public prayer, didn't He?\\

During His earthly sojourn, Jesus participated in the vocal, yea set rote, prayers of the Temple and Synagogue, and even led their recitation in the latter.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/24/12


When Thomas Jefferson was president he attended church services in the US Capital Building in the US House of representatives chambers and had the US Marine Band provide music for the service, don't blame the courts, blame the ACLU they started the problem.
---Blogger9211 on 8/24/12


Separation of church and state are essential in a democracy. You are not going to take my money to brainwash kids.
---Aleta on 8/23/12

This is the part of the First Ammendment of the Constitution of the United States known as the separation of church and state:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Where does it say that there cannot be any exercise of religion within the US Government?

It does not and never has. That essential separation was never in our democracy. Only in relationship to the establishment of a national church.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/24/12


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Jerry, as I've repeatedly said, nobody can stop a child from silently praying anywhere, as long as it doesn't interfere with their lessons. I've had students who pray before a test.

What people are opposed to is prayers of a specific faith system being led in front of a class or over the P.A.
---Trish on 8/24/12


As a tax payer, and supporter of public schools, I do not want prayer in public schools. I am not a Christian, and I am tired of Christians trying to force their beliefs on everyone. How about having the teachings of Buddha in schools? Maybe students should observe all the Jewish holidays. Why is it that you think that it's ok to teach YOUR religion is schools? It is not MY religion. Separation of church and state are essential in a democracy. You are not going to take my money to brainwash kids.
---Aleta on 8/23/12


trish, i don't know.

anyway, i do not believe in corporate prayer in general. prayer is our most intimate act and it should only be shared by a few if that.
---aka on 8/24/12


****************

It is only because of an ignorant populace that the US has banned prayer in the public forum. The constitutional ban on the establishment of an official religion is often quoted:

"Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of a religion..."

But the second half of the constitutional mandate is never mentioned:

"...NOR PROHIBIT THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF."

****************
---jerry6593 on 8/24/12


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aka: People are free to pray in schools as long as it doesn't interfere with teaching. I believe Jesus would prefer the silent earnest prayers of believers than the forced rote prayers of unbelievers. In fact, He said something about private prayer versus spoken public prayer, didn't He?

What do you think He'd do?
---Trish on 8/23/12


Actually, I'm for prayers in public schools, as long as they are EXCLUSIVELY Orthodox prayers used.

How does that strike you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/23/12


So, whose rights do you wish to trample?
---Trish on 8/23/12

WWJD
---aka on 8/23/12


Prior to my retirement, I was part of a prayer group of teachers who prayed mightily every morning for the students, administration, and teachers. We usually took a half hour to discuss the prayer needs and then have the prayer. I'm sure there are plenty of teachers who meet to pray in public schools across the country.

When my children were in high school, Campus Crusade for Christ sponsored a "Meet me at the pole" event every Autumn, to organize a time when all who wished could congregate at flagpoles across the country to pray for their school and school year. It was during the school day, and done at a particular time of day. All of the principals allowed it. It was a powerful testimony.
---Trish on 8/23/12


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When I was in Junior High school in South Florida the 9th grade students did the devotionals over the PA system from the school office we had Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish students and all who wish to participate presented their Religious text all were respected and no one complained, I guess times have changed a lot since the ACLU got involved in public schools.
---Blogger9211 on 8/23/12


I have a friend who is a principle at a school and a group of teachers have gotten together and do prayer and Bible study before classes start and the fruit from it has been amazing in both the students lives and their lives.
---Scott1 on 8/23/12


Whose prayer should be in school? Catholic? Christian? Muslim? Jewish? Hindu? Buddhist?

Should each group get a day to have their prayer recited?

I had students from each of those religions in my classes one year. Whose First Amendment rights should be trampled?

Or, are you NOT familiar with the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States?

I taught public school in an urban area for 20 years. If kids wanted to pray privately, they were never stopped, as long as it did not interfere with the teaching.

So, whose rights do you wish to trample?
---Trish on 8/23/12


Do you realize that by asking prayer to be put back in school today, they will not necessarily be Christian prayers, much less Protestant ones?

Ismail Hussein will have his classmates do prostrations towards Mecca.

Indira Patel will burn incense to Vishnu, do invocations from the Upanishads, and read from the Bhagavad Gita.

Chen Wu will chant, "Hail, jewel in the lotus."

Stardancer (whose Wiccan parents have rejected surnames as patriarchal) will lead singing of, "We all come from the Goddess."

Will you want your children to participate in these religious exercises?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 8/23/12


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The chances are getting slimmer as time goes by and immigration of Muslims continue to infiltrate our society!
---1st_cliff on 8/23/12


Has real prayer ever left the schools?
---willie_c: on 8/23/12


it certainly has not existed in my lifetime, but the real question is this a form of superstition? non believers (school) prays and God will bless it? (superstition) or, is it, non-believers pray (school) and God will bless the school - why? (cause & effect) honest question.....
---chip91231 on 8/23/12


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