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Did God Create To Punish

"Do you believe God created some for the sole purpose of perishing them?"

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 ---Phil on 8/29/12
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No.

He continued to provide (His Witness) of forgiveness with/in His Word.

Israel[Y srel: ( a complete sentence) He turns the head of God--(chosen)

The Word of Yah, spoken, written and manifested in flesh provided the order of the day [davar]
Renewing the mind (thoughts) to be as Gods thoughts and goal-Saved, rescued, and delivered from the chaos/confusion. Turning ones Head from a path of dysfunction to the path of function. When followed and walked-the path leads- back to God.
Is 55:11
Repeatedly Y sr el turned away from Gods covenant God is faithful.
[Sr] of the feminine form [srh/sarah]and related to [yasar] discipline.

Gen 21:12(all)[...] for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
---char on 11/18/12


God provides His Witnesses:

*Written Word down to each letter, visibly seen as a barometer of the seasons. Gen1:1 brsht bara Elohyim et/at [aleph Tav]
*His Chosen: Israel testifies of His plan--forgiveness
*The Heavens declare His Glory understood through the Hebraic language-down to each letter.

Ps122:2-6
Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem.
Jerusalem is builded as a city that is compact together:
Whither the tribes go up, the tribes of the LORD, unto the testimony of Israel, to give thanks unto the name of the LORD.
For there are set thrones of judgment, the thrones of the house of David.
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

Jn 3:16,Rev11
---char on 11/18/12


PART 1

MarkV: "show me where God said man was free."

Mark 9:23-24, Luke 11:13, John 1:11-13 ("Yet wherever men did accept him he gave them the power to become sons of God." Note logical order!), Rom 1:17 ("a process begun and continued by their faith"), 4:16 ("is a matter of faith on man's part and generosity on God's), 6:16,17 ("You belong to the power which you choose to obey.Thank God you honestly responded to the impact of Christ's teaching"), 10:12,13 ("For all have the same Lord, whose boundless resources are sufficient for all who turn to him in faith"), 10:17, 11:20,23, 12:2, 13:11, 16:26 ("that they may turn to him")
---Marc on 11/18/12


No.
He provided His Witness for all to see. Without excuse: the invisible world is seen by the visible world(shadow/representation-Image) Rom1:20-21
A Holy People (set apart/aside-chosen) As His Witness that He Is(Exist) God. Is 43,44 (all)
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
I, even I, am the LORD, and beside me there is no saviour.
I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
Is 44:2
---char on 11/18/12


Without excuse: the invisible world is seen by the visible world(shadow/representation-Image)
Unknown variables is naked by the known-when rightly divided. Rom1:20-21
Isaiah 54:5-10[...]"Your Maker is your husband - the LORD Almighty is his name - the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, he is called the God of all the earth. The LORD will call you back as if you were a wife deserted and distressed in spirit - a wife who married young, only to be rejected," says your God. "For a brief moment I abandoned you, but with deep compassion I will bring you back.[...]

Israel and Yersalem: The whole world views
---char on 11/18/12




Eph 2:18-22(all)
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.[...]And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone[...]
----
Israel:(12 tribes/12 apostles)
Is 49:6 (all)[...]be my Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my Salvation unto the end of the earth."
Rom8,11: elect
Remnant:
Mk 13:11(all)[...]but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy [Spirit].

-Not their own thoughts/words/ understanding-

Holy Spirit testifing--Word to mankind...
Jn3:16
---char on 11/18/12


"I've noticed the same thing about you..." Cluny

And please do feel free to highlight them if you think so. If you have not noticed from the very beginning of my postings, I come hard at the "free-will" of man advocated and taught.

It's so clear in the Holy Scriptures witnessed and testified by the prophets, more importantly Jesus Christ, that God has a purpose and will that will and must be fulfilled. Loads of example are given in Scriptures and yet many (like you) turn a blind eye and with a dark heart teaches otherwise.

And yes, even your actions and mine are purposed by God to do so according to His purpose and will, ALL FOR HIS GLORY and no one else!
---christan on 11/17/12


\\As usual, you quote Scriptures but have no understanding what you quote.\\

I've noticed the same thing about you, cristan.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/16/12


Samuelbb7, the question is whether you understand what you read. You said,

"But JESUS loved everyone even the rich young ruler who decide to be lost. Not would JESUS enjoy watching those whom he loved to be tortured for all eternity. So I do not actually read this in the Bible."

First, the rich young ruler did not decide to be lost. He was lost already. He claimed he had kept all things Jesus asked him. His answer was sincere, he thought he had done enough to enter heaven, but Jesus exposed his believes when He asked him to sell everything, it revealed he loved his possessions more then he loved his neighbor. He might have been blameless on his external actions, but not in terms of internal attitudes and motives.
---Mark_V. on 11/16/12


"Scripture disagree with you..." Ruben

As usual, you quote Scriptures but have no understanding what you quote. I do not deny nor reject Gal 5:19-21 you quoted. It's true!

But is that the whole Truth with regards to salvation? Are you teaching us that we can cleanse ourselves from those sins mentioned? If yes, then NOBODY's going to the "kingdom of God". NOBODY!

You obviously do not believe in God's love though you may profess to, you're just a hypocrite.

Basically, you do not believe in salvation by grace as taught by Paul. It's only because of God's love to His elect that they are saved by His Almighty Grace 100%, that's why they're going to be with Him in eternity.
---christan on 11/16/12




christan * Romans 8:35,38,39 SPECIFICALLY speaks about God's Love which cannot be thwarted nor disrupted by ANYTHING.

Which is the 'focus' on Paul teaching in this verse, the love of God or the love of Christ . God does not love us one day then hates us another time. Paul tell us in 2 Tim 2:13 "If we are faithless, he will remain faithful for he cannot disown us. How do we know God loves us, Jhn 3:16 says " he gave us his only son". But as Paul warns us in 2 tim 2:12 " If we disown him, he wil disown us, here Paul clearly puts the responsibility on he indiviual!
---Ruben on 11/16/12


It's His eternal Love that will save the elect and NOTHING else can separate the elect from His Son whom they were given to!
---christan on 11/15/12

Christan,

Scripture disagree with you:

" Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warn you before , that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." ( Gal 5:19-21)

(1 cor 6:8-11)
(Ephesians 5:2-6)
---Ruben on 11/16/12


Marc, you are now making it is point to insult me only because I disagreed with you on the post concerning Christians protesting. It was a simple answer. Nothing to get all turn around with. Why all the hostility? I don't believe that everyone will ever agree with everything absolutely. We have to disagree on something. We are not all made the same or have ever studied the same. My suggestions on studying about God first were for edifying. You don't have to take them. They are called, "God centered"
I will try to leave you peace Marc. And see how far that peace will go. peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 11/16/12


Rehoboam thought he was in control!1st Kings 12:12-15 So Jeroboam and all the people came to Rehoboam the third day, as the king had appointed, saying, Come to me again the third day. And the king answered the people roughly, and forsook the old men's counsel that they gave him, And spake to them after the counsel of the young men, saying, My father made your yoke heavy, and I will add to your yoke: my father also chastised you with whips, but I will chastise you with scorpions Wherefore the king hearkened not unto the people, FOR THE CAUSE WAS FROM THE LORD, that he might perform his saying, which the LORD spake by Ahijah the Shilonite unto Jeroboam the son of Nebat.
---J_Marc on 11/16/12


Calvanists do believe that GOD has always hated certain people and that created some people so he can have the pleasure of toturing them forever while they get to look on in enjoyment. Some Roman Catholics also often talke of how they would get to enjoy the torment of the damned for their amuzement.

But JESUS loved everyone even the rich young ruler who decide to be lost. Not would JESUS enjoy watching those whom he loved to be tortured for all eternity. So I do not actually read this in the Bible.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/15/12


"First of all what Paul listed are God created and we as inddiviual have no control over them." Ruben

And you actually believe you have control over things "that's not mentioned" in the Holy Scripture? Alright, Scripture doesn't even tell us that our breathing and doing the basic things on this earth is 100% dependent of God Almighty's common grace. So, stop breathing now and raise yourself from the dead after your heart stops beating.

Romans 8:35,38,39 SPECIFICALLY speaks about God's Love which cannot be thwarted nor disrupted by ANYTHING. It's His eternal Love that will save the elect and NOTHING else can separate the elect from His Son whom they were given to!
---christan on 11/15/12


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Marc, your absolutely incorrect. My theology is the only one that is Christian. your theology is like the Mormons, J. Witnesses, Islam, and Catholics. you see, their theology is a theology of works. The will of God doesn't govern their lives. They detemine how things will be, because they have the power to accept Christ or reject Him with their own free will, their own works. "He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory, but he who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him" (John 7:18).
Since you suggest you are smarter then me, show me one passages, where God told man they had a will that was free. Because all you did was a lot of talk, no Truth to speak of.
---Mark_V. on 11/16/12


Sadly yes! Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:Malalchi 1:2-3 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
---J_Marc on 11/15/12


MarkV,

Here we go again (insert a yawn) with your 'I'm-the-only-one-who-truly-understands-the-deep-secrets-of-God-and-if-someone-doesn't-agree-with-me-they-are-mere-children-and-I-can-haughtily-preach-down-to-them' attitude.

No, MarkV, notwithstanding your claim to the contrary, your theology is Calvinistic and thus is not Christian.

A word of advice, son, if you want to learn something, the best place to start is to engage with your intellectual opponents and not just give them an arrogant spray about how great you are.
---Marc on 11/15/12


No elect of God will ever perish, period. Romans 8:35,38,39

" shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? ...neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature,".-Christian

First of all what Paul listed are God created and we as inddiviual have no control over them.

Second he does not include things which we have control of like : fornication,idolatry,adultery and stealing simply because he had stated previously in passage like 1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:21 and Eph 5:5 these sins are the very reason we can lose our salavation.
---Ruben on 11/15/12


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Phil, please re-read ALL that I said. I cannot make it any clearer by saying it a second time.
---Rita_H on 11/14/12

This I did. Your post stated: "God knows the end before the beginning and he knows who will and who will not be saved."

I posted His latest revelation, that He will save all men, not some. Prior to the perfect sacrifice, knowledge of God's plan for us was restricted. Paul revealed secrets. One of which was the complete reconciliation of all things [Col 1:20] created.
---Phil on 11/15/12


Marc, you might call what I have posted Calvinist, but I have never studied Calvinism. I have studied God. And if you had also, you would know that God Rules from the Throne. If you don't know that, it is because you think man rules over God, and that He learns through time. The God of Scripture ordained all things, every little detail. Neither you nor me can change what God already knows is going to happen. He ordained it, How can He not know? He is Omniscient, knowing all, He is Omnipotent, unlimited power, that is not limited to anything. He is also Omnipresent, There is no place where He is not at. When you get those things in your head and make God your barometer, then you will understand who is in Charge of all things.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/12


Christan,

As I was underscoring, Calvinists evince a deplorable lack of logic when it comes to reasoning from Scripture. If you would kindly reread MarkV's argument, if indeed you actually have, you may, I stress, MAY, understand the I've-shot-myself-in-the-foot argument that he threw up.
---Marc on 11/15/12


Marc, Peter wrote (2 Peter 3:9) not God. If God was talking He would have said, none of the elect will perish. But it was Peter who wrote 2 Peter. He said,
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise." He is instructing the believers concerning the elect. "as some count slackness," some believed that the Lord was late coming. " but is longsuffering toward us" believers, and the elect who will believe, "not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance"
The "any" must refer to those whom the Lord has chosen and will call to complete the redeemed, the "us." Since the whole passage is about God's destroying the wicked.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/12


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Marc 2: concerning my answer to athiest. God did not make athiest an athiest, he was born an athiest, just like all descendants of Adam. None believe in the Lord. They have been separated from God by the curse. God knows everything, He is Omniscient. There is not one thing He doesn't know. After all He created the world and all things in it. Nothing can exist without the power of God. He knows the beginning and the end. If He didn't He would not be God. I suggest for you is to never by-pass any passages concerning the nature, character and attributes of God just because they don't fit your theology. And He never changes His nature, character or His attributes. Man changes every second but not God.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/12


"Re your spray against Atheist, your God must have "made" Atheist an atheist. Your God, not my God, is mad/bad. Thus, he can't exist." Marc

Wonderful! A self-professed "christian" taking the side of a self-proclaimed "Atheist" - one who does not believe in God, let alone a mocker of God. Is something amiss here?

The only "truth" you spoke here is "Your God, not my god". How right you are. For MarkV's God declared, "I form the light, and CREATE DARKNESS: I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7, "...shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?" Amos 3:6

He exist!
---christan on 11/15/12


"how can the "any" possibly perish if they're ALREADY the elect." Marc

Your understanding of "the elect" is nothing short of foolishness. No elect of God will ever perish, period. Paul testify explicitly in Romans 8:35,38,39

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? ...neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Those who perish means God never loved them at all.
---christan on 11/14/12


MarkV,

I understand the difficulty for Calvinists to remain rational as logic's just an annoying issue you ignore when checkmated. Nevertheless, re 2 Peter 3:9, how can the "any" possibly perish if they're ALREADY the elect. According to Calvinism, if God knows who the elect are, NONE logically can perish. Your eisegetical escape clause is tautology.

Not only is Calvinism a theological nightmare from the Devil, it's a congeries of paralogisms.

Re your spray against Atheist, your God must have "made" Atheist an atheist. Your God, not my God, is mad/bad. Thus, he can't exist. He's a figment of your deluded, unbiblical imagination which relies on eisegesis to overcome unambiguous verses that belie Calvinism.
---Marc on 11/14/12


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Phil, please re-read ALL that I said. I cannot make it any clearer by saying it a second time.
---Rita_H on 11/14/12


"Tell me then, was His plan of redemption a failure, seeing that some will not be saved?

Do you really believe that man's will is stronger than God's?

Then, if so, the God needs to be corrected:"

Phil on 11/14/12

Jesus said, Matthew 20:16 "So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."
Also, Matthew 10:38 "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."

That is just the way it is and judging 'God's plans' and pitting man against God does nothing to change it.
---Nana on 11/14/12


Do I believe that God created some for the sole purpose of perishing them? No, I certainly do not.
---Rita_H on 11/12/12

Tell me then, was His plan of redemption a failure, seeing that some will not be saved?

Do you really believe that man's will is stronger than God's?

Then, if so, the God needs to be corrected:

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, WHO IS THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.

Perhaps I should quote it with "saviour of some men, only those that believe."

Then again, that would be foolish, wouldn't it?
---Phil on 11/14/12


"Jesus knew before the creation of this world who would except Him." pat

Correction. These are the very words that Paul wrote,

"According as HE HATH CHOSEN US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: HAVING PREDESTINATED US UNTO ADOPTION of children by Jesus Christ to himself, ACCORDING TO THE GOOD PLEASURE OF HIS WILL,

To the praise of the glory of His grace, WHEREIN HE HATH MADE US ACCEPTED IN THE BELOVED."
Ephesians 1:4-6

Lots of difference between "knew" and "chosen", and you don't need to be a preacher to know and believe this.
---christan on 11/13/12


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Jesus knew before the creation of this world who would except Him. Take heart you may be one of the chosen ones....We never know who He might save. In Prov. 16:4 "The Lord hath made all things for Himself, yea, even the WICKED for the day of EVIL". Yes, we are chosen before the creation of this world. In Jer. 1:5>>>Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee". And check out>>Matt. 24:22.
---pat on 11/13/12


///Ezekiel 18:23
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways, for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
1 Timothy 2:3-6
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
--LindaH on 8/30/12///

Shalom Sister :-)
---char on 11/13/12


Clearly, it is written, "God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth..." Acts 17:24, and some of you must agree that this is without exception, including good and evil.

God even declared, "The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." Proverbs 16:4. That is, for evil to come into play, God has to create a wicked person to perform it. Or how else does evil exist?

Even Job acknowledged and rebuked his own wife, "Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?" Job 2:10

So, don't be foolish...
---christan on 11/12/12


Do I believe that God created some for the sole purpose of perishing them? No, I certainly do not. God wants all mankind to be saved and Heaven will be big enough for ALL. However, God knows the end before the beginning and he knows who will and who will not be saved. That is not the same as Him having planned it that way.

Jesus died for ALL but some choose to reject His gift.
---Rita_H on 11/12/12


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Atheist: I understand your complaint there, but I disagree.

The real question is which of the following two (other possibilities) did you expect God to do:

1) Prevent their parents from having that baby

2) Let them into Heaven when they were His enemies.

For (2) God is happy to take them into Heaven if they will accept God as God and accept they are not perfect

But to take into Heaven people who are God's enemies - would Heaven be Heaven anymore?
---Peter on 9/12/12


athiest, by all accounts, He does exist, and He is God. You just don't know Him. You are not the only one who doesn't know Him, so you are not along. The God you don't believe in, and argue against, is in control of all things, that is why He is call Sovereign.
---Mark_V. on 9/12/12


Yes. By all accounts, if he exists, he is a sadist.
---atheist on 9/11/12


Phil, concerning the passages in (2 Peter 3:9) seems many here interpret the passage as the Lord is not willing that any "in the world" should perish---Mark_V. on 9/7/12

1Pt 1:1 . Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia.

eklektos parepidemos diaspora
chosen expatriates of the dispersion Acts 11:19.

Peter's letters are addressed to Jewish believers. He wrote nothing to the Gentiles.

His letters are Holy Spirit inspired, for us to know and understand His ways with Israel.

They were not written to us.
---Phil on 9/9/12


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//---josef on 9/6/12//


Your welcome Brother.
---char on 9/7/12


Phil, you are so right. I would be in the same place if God had not reach out and had mercy on me.
My point concerning (2 Peter 3:9) was because I heard it mention many times, in support that God wants every individual to be saved. It is then Amen by someone, as if it is true, when we know it is not. Many have taken a different road in learning because they hear comments from others that are wrong. As if God is weak, or as if man has something over God. I believe the problem starts when believers begin studying from man to God, instead of studying from God to man. After all it is all about a Holy God and sinful man. We already know what man is, what we need to know is who God is.
---Mark_V. on 9/7/12


God awesome right!
I have read the things written in this blog. I can say as far as most of you are concerned.
God does not create people, for the sole purpose of perishing them, right!

Yet, as I read the word of God, in which he say I have made everything you see before you. Not just the thing you see, but even the things you don't see.
As well as every man, woman and child on earth, and wrapped in flesh.

Telling you, your flesh is enmity against God!
Now forgive me, but every one of us, will perish in our flesh!
Not my word, God's!

We might want to take some time and think about just why that is.
Mat 5:22-26! Peace
---TheSeg on 9/7/12


Those who do perish and go to hell, go because they are depraved and worthy only of hell and have rejected the only remedy, Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 9/7/12

This would be me.

Had He not known me from before the disruption of the world, and chosen me to show forth His wisdom and grace, the fate for me would be the same as those you assign to unbelief.

I did not choose Him, He chose me. The rest will follow through the same power that caused me to submit - grace.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
---Phil on 9/7/12


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Phil 2: if we take the interpretation of (2 Peter 3:9) that others give, that He is longsuffering not willing that any should perish that would mean He has a long wait, and will be waiting forever, since the Bible (God's Word) tells us about the lost,
"As it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one,
There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks after God"
(Rom. 3:10,11).
Since God told us this words, why would He be waiting and longsuffering not wishing that any should perish when He already knows they will never seek God? They will never understand?
It demishes the Omnipotence of God, and destroys His Omniscience, knowing all things.
---Mark_V. on 9/7/12


Phil, concerning the passages in (2 Peter 3:9) seems many here interpret the passage as the Lord is not willing that any in the world should perish, but that is not what the context tells us.
The "any" must refer to those whom the Lord has chosen (the elect) and will call to complete the redeemed, the "us," since the whole passage is about God's destroying the wicked. His patience is not so He can save all of them, but so that He can receive all His own. He can't be waiting for everyone to be saved, since the emphasis is that He will destroy the world and the ungodly. Those who do perish and go to hell, go because they are depraved and worthy only of hell and have rejected the only remedy, Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 9/7/12


"Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?"Ezekiel 33:11
"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways, for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 1 Timothy 2:3-6"

"--Amen and God bless.
---char on 9/6/12"
Thanks Char, and right back at you:o)
---josef on 9/6/12


Again,
///---josef on 8/31/12///----

--Amen and God bless.
---char on 9/6/12


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second attempt to post.

//---anon on 8/30/12//Nicely stated and taken to heart.

God Bless you
---char on 9/6/12


Again-/Ezekiel 18:23
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways, for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
1 Timothy 2:3-6
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.-LindaH on 8/30/12/Love this!
Bless you sister.
---char on 9/6/12


"Do you believe God created some for the sole purpose of perishing them?"

No.

//God "is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (in 2 Peter 3:9)
---willie_c: on 8/29/12------

Agree.


2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
---char on 9/6/12


//---Gordon on 8/30/12// -----Understood.

God bless you brother.
---char on 9/6/12


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//[...] 2 Pet 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance---[...]
Mark_Eaton on 8/30/12//

Another Amen Brother,
God Bless you.
---char on 9/6/12


Hello, family this is ELENA, let me thankyou Mary & bro. MarkV. Last nite got a look at you Blog for August.thankyou for caring bout me,means alot.God has the right do as he desires, most of us have been more disobedient, and not just thatmyself
Like many times he is fine tuning us, life not a rose garden, Job life great example ..please know I went thru alot and thankfull anyone ask about me.Heard such ignorant and bad, prettymuch shut down talking, in my situation ..right. God is good,cancer is myenemy not God. I don't care to talk much. This too,has its good.women are most ignorant about cancer. Here! lol
---ELENA on 9/3/12


Samuel, You don't understand the Sovereignty of God so you make such statements about God. God is Sovereign and man is a sinner. Man has nothing over God. God is not obligated to sinful man. God tempts no one. Man sin because they love to sin, they love darkness. If man would obey God they too would be saved, for they would need no Savior. All descentdants of Adam need a Savior for they all sin. Man on his own cannot save himself or make himself born of the Spirit. For no one lost seeks of God. So before you accuse God of something, study harder, even that might not help you. Such a God cannot be found out by searching. God can only be known as He is revealed to the heart by the Holy Spirit through the Word. Jesus Christ is the Word.
---Mark_V. on 9/3/12


First most people who believe in Calvanism with all i'ts five points believe that GOD created people so he can torture them for all eternity and that he does not love everyone. Perish means they will cease to exist.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/2/12


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I agree with Arminius in the Remonstrance (1610), a theological statement signed by 45 ministers. The Five Articles of the Remonstrance asserted that:
1.election (and condemnation on the day of judgment) was conditioned by the rational faith or nonfaith of man,
2.the Atonement, while qualitatively adequate for all men, was efficacious only for the man of faith,
3.unaided by the Holy Spirit, no person is able to respond to Gods will,
4.grace is not irresistible, and
5.believers are able to resist sin but are not beyond the possibility of falling from grace.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/2/12


Follower-of-Christ, And, some people quote Scripture word-for-word perfectly, but, do not have holy Discernment or Understanding as to what that quoted Scripture really means. They quote Scripture perfectly but twist it's meaning. YAHUSHUA (JESUS) is Salvation itself, JOHN 14:6 says so. The Scriptures say that "Today is the day of Salvation.", MEANING, that one must choose Salvation before they die, for, after death, it will be too late. Universalism is a LIE. Not everyone will be saved. Multitudes are in Hell, now, at this minute. GOD is willing that none perish, but, that "willing" means "desire". For, each person has free-will and must choose Salvation for themselves. Salvation is not forced.
---Gordon on 9/2/12


Follower, that is your problem, you believe what is written in Scripture are doctrines of demons. Could be the reason you follow another Jesus, not the One from Scripture. I gave you the word of God. God Himself was talking and you call it doctrines of the devil. Your calling God the devil, and another god God. I would say that is Anti-Christ material. The reason I told you you were following another Jesus.
In (Deut. 31:16,17) God was telling Moses, that after he died and rested with his fathers, what He was going to do to the people way into the future. Your god does not know anything. That's why you have the wrong Jesus, and so the wrong god. The God of Scripture knows all things. He never learns anything, your god knows nothing.
---Mark_V. on 9/2/12


Gordon I do believe God is all knowing and I know he allows people to be taken over by their own intellectual thoughts and stray away from his truth. Some ministers are gifted with manipulating others to follow them instead of the Lord Jesus and make up things that don't exist in holy scripture. people who follow these ministers become overtaken by idolatry and follow the man who says he follows the Lord even though everything that man does is against the Lord. today is not the only day of salvation. God did not create some souls for the purpose of destroying them. It is Gods will and his ultimate plan that all of mankind will be saved. the plan of salvation did not end with the Lord Jesus it is just the beginning.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/1/12


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Follower-of-Christ, So you do not believe that GOD is All-Knowing?? So, you do not believe that GOD can see into the Future?? If HE can't, how then, was He able to have the Books of REVELATION, DANIEL and EZEKIEL written out??
---Gordon on 9/1/12


God knows who will be saved and who will not be saved before they are born.

that statement is not from holy scripture. that is a doctrine of devils.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/1/12


God knows who will be saved and who will not be saved before they are born.
"And the Lord said to Moses, "Behold, you will rest with your fathers, and this people will rise and play the harlot with the gods of the foreigners of the land, where they go to be among them, and they will forsake Me and break My covenant which I hav made with them. Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?" (Deut. 31:16,17).
God knows the future of everyone because He ordained it.
---Mark_V. on 9/1/12


God did not create the wicked to punish them. They are punished due to their wicked works, and their hatred for God.
Prov16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

It is my belief that Prov 16:4 is explaining that God made all things, and yes he even made the wicked. I believe this verse explains that their destruction gives God glory. In other words, our God is righteous and his destruction of all wickedness is glorious! To God be the glory forever! Amen
---trey on 8/31/12


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Mark Eaton, This is very much a legitimate question, and it must be answered with the truth, rather than just opinion. True, a person must dig into the Scriptures to know what GOD is like, but, with all of the false teachings abounding that insinuate that "GOD is a God of Love and not Wrath and Vengeance"...This issue needs to be dealt with. GOD is a God of perfect Love, that is why HE is also a GOD of Wrath and Judgment. For, Sin and Rebellion destroys the Creation that HE loves, therefore, HIS Holy Character must judge and punish Sin and Evildoers. The Scriptures declare that GOD Himself destroys the wicked souls of men in Hell (and the Lake of Fire). MATTHEW 5:29-30, 13:41-42, 25:41-46, MARK 9:43-48, REVELATION 14:9-11 and 20:14-15.
---Gordon on 8/31/12


"Do you believe God created some for the sole purpose of perishing them?" No.
The Father is "not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." 2Pe 3:9
And "desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." 1Ti 2:4
The Father's word to all the world "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other." Isa 45:22
For He "so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [He] did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved." Jhn 3:16,17
---josef on 8/31/12


Phil, God is Love. The devil is EVIL. Please take the time to get to know God's character...Mercy, Love, Peace, Joy, etc.,

The Kingdom of God is not eat nor drink, but Righteousness, Peace & Joy.

Why would a Holy God GIVE His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON to die for your sins only to damm you to hell? Doesn't make sense, does it?

Too many folks don't know God thus they think He is responsibe for evil things like damming someone to hell.

Satan knows he's going to be in Hell for all eternity and he's trying to take as many people with him as posssible, don't let yourself be one of them by believing lies of the devil. (((huggss))))
---anon on 8/30/12


Where's char?
---Phil on 8/30/12


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Phil,

This question grieves me and I believe it grieves God.

Learning of God's "heart" through His word, I believe the 2 Peter 3:9 passage describes it best

2 Pet 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance"

God wants us to come back to Him. God has every good intention for us. If we would just put away our prejudice, pre-conceived notions, and stop projecting our humanity upon God and see Him as He describes Himself in the Bible, I believe you will stop asking questions like this and instead have a desire to know Him better.
---Mark_Eaton on 8/30/12


No, GOD did not create any person for the sole purpose of damning them. The Verse that speaks about "some vessels were made for Blessing and some vessels made fit for Destruction" means that Once a person makes their decision to completely refuse to repent of sin and refuses Salvation, then, only GOD's Wrath will remain on them (JOHN 3:36). "Once a person inadvertedly chooses Damnation, then, they become, or rather, they've made themselves into, a "vessel of GOD's Wrath", and GOD may use them as an example of what NOT to do. As was the case of the Pharaoh in Moses' time."
---Gordon on 8/30/12


DITTO!
---Leon on 8/30/12


No, GOD did not create any person for the sole purpose of damning them. The Verse that speaks about "some vessels were made for Blessing and some vessels made fit for Destruction" means that Once a person makes their decision to completely refuse to repent of sin and refuses Salvation, then, only GOD's Wrath will remain on them (JOHN 3:36). Once a person inadvertedly chooses Damnation, then, they become, or rather, they've made themselves into, a "vessel of GOD's Wrath", and GOD may use them as an example of what NOT to do. As was the case of the Pharaoh in Moses' time.
---Gordon on 8/30/12


Ezekiel 18:23
Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways, for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

1 Timothy 2:3-6
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
---LindaH on 8/30/12


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Phil, God does not "create" people,we are borne as Adam was given this mandate!(to procreate)
---1st_cliff on 8/30/12


God "is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (in 2 Peter 3:9)
---willie_c: on 8/29/12


well, if we allow that Romans 9:21 addresses the question of how God creates us for usage, it would seem some may be created to not glorify Him.....
---chip on 8/29/12


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