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What Happens At Death

What does scripture say happens when a person dies?

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 ---1st_cliff on 8/30/12
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Gordon, I liked what you said to 1Cliff but:
"Your ignorance is that you do not know what "death" really is. And, you choose to remain blinded to the truth."
He doesn't choose to remain blinded, no one does. They just are. The only death they know of is physical death, physical blindness. Moses talked about this spiritual blindness in (Deut. 29:1-4). The people had seen what God had done before their eyes, the signs and great wonders God did, then it says,
"Yet the Lord has not given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to this very day"
God has to change their hearts and bring spiritual sight to them and ears to hear, otherwise they remain blind to spiritual truth.
---Mark_V. on 9/10/12


Jerry6593, The "...rest of the dead..." of REVELATION 20:5 simply means that their departed souls were still dwelling either in the Third Heaven Above or down below in Hell, depending on their spiritual condition. For, the "Heaven" that we all think about going to one day will not be up above in what is called the "Third Heaven" where GOD's Throne and the Mansions of the Saints (JOHN 14:1-3) are right now. The true eternal Heaven will be on the New Earth where those Mansions above will be brought down to from Above (REVELATION 21:1-2). REVELATION 20:5 MEANS their soul and fleshly bodies were not reunited to live on Earth yet. They are not "alive and living" ON THE EARTH yet.
---Gordon on 9/10/12


Follower-of-Christ, It's your rose-coloured glasses that are making you see me the way you do. Take them off and get before GOD, with a Holy Bible, and seek HIS Face for the TRUTH about HIS Wrath and HIS Punishment upon the Wicked throughout Eternity.
---Gordon on 9/10/12


***********

The doctrine of eternal torture and suffering of God's "children" for the transgressions of a relatively few years is not consistent with the body of scripture or with the character of a loving Father. This doctrine is wholly pagan in origin, and is used by ignorant preachers to scare the people into heaven.

How is it that ALL dead people are really alive before and after the resurrection, when the Bible states that "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished (Rev 20:5)"?

************
---jerry6593 on 9/10/12


1st Cliff, Hell ("Hades" and "Sheol") and the Lake of Fire ("Gehenna") are two different places, but, BOTH contain Fire. Hell is scattered with Flames of tormenting Fires and with small bodies of liquid Fire. And, then, the Lake of Fire, which is the eternal dwelling place of the Damned, is one complete vast body of liquid Fire, which includes Flames of Fire just by virtue that is liquid Fire. It is hot liquified Sulpher and Fire. Much like Lava that comes out of a volcanoe. I'm telling you, Cliff, I'm not exaggerating or lying to you here. I'm not deceived and deceiving you in turn. All that I've told you is true. Just have Faith and seek GOD's Face about it. In all seriousness.
---Gordon on 9/9/12




1 Peter 3:19 a paradise prison?? I can't even add my staple word, interesting, to that woowoo idea.

Gordon the more I read your posts I'm convinced you are using some sort of controlled substances and these are making you woozy and fuzzy headed with vivid dream states. These go into overdrive when activated by fire and brimstone sermons. I would lay off the mental joy rides and begin reading Gods Word without the added brain boost. The wild substance ride and the demonized hell fire preaching are not contained within the word of God. And, I'll humbly add, the word of God warns against fibbing, in other words, adding words to his holy words. And this paradise hell is exactly that, an addition.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/9/12


1st Cliff, Hell is located in the "heart" of the Earth (MATTHEW 12:40). That's toward the center of the Earth. Thousands of miles below the Earth's surface. That's why the screams of the Damned can't be heard. YAHUSHUA went down to Hell at Death (EPHESIANS 4:9). He went NOT to Hell Torments, but to Hell's Paradise side. He preached the Good News to the spirits in Paradise's prison (I PETER 3:19) and set them free and lead them to the Third Heaven for He accomplished their Atonement on the Cross as promised. Hell's Paradise side no longer exists. And, the side that was once Paradise in Hell, was made into more of the Hell of Torments. Saints who die today go straight up to the Third Heaven to await Heaven on the New Earth in the future.
---Gordon on 9/9/12


Elijah wrote a letter to someone 10 years after being "taken up in a tempest". 2Ch 21:12 He was quite alive, and died like all men.
---Phil on 9/7/12

Double check that fact. Elijah was not yet taken up when Jehoram was king
---francis on 9/8/12


Phil, you're saying Enoch and Elijah, passed from physical life, here?
I believe Enoch and Elijah are very much alive and in their physical body!
Nor were they resurrected, Christ not being on earth!

Philip was translated as well??
Act_8:40 But Philip was found at Azotus!
1Co_15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Now, I know this is entirely up to God!
But, I do believe God has another pulpous for them, of this I have no doubt!
Who is going to believe the testimony of two men dressed in sackcloth?
Seriously, think about it! Two men dressed in sackcloth, telling you!
This is what God is saying!
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/7/12


Gordon,Your reasoning is a bit flawed in that the "hell" with the fire is Gehenna and did not exist back in the OT time.Hades equivalent in Hebrew was Sheol the common grave of man ,that's why it is translated 31 times out of 65 as "grave"(KJV)and another 31 times just as "hell" also "pit"
Why is the word death used if there's no such thing?
How is it we can't hear millions of people screaming in the fire?
Hi-tec equipment is scuoring the globe for minerals, no fire has been detected!
---1st_cliff on 9/7/12




We know of two that did not die the normal way, Enoch and Elijah they never died---Mark_V. on 9/6/12

Hb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises.

Enoch is included in the "all died" of Hebrews 11. Being translated to another location to avoid being harmed, does not mean resurrected to life. Philip was translated as well. Acts 8:39-40

Elijah wrote a letter to someone 10 years after being "taken up in a tempest". 2Ch 21:12 He was quite alive, and died like all men.

Ferreting out the evidence is time consuming, yet rewarding.

1Ti 6:16 the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords,
Who only hath immortality.
---Phil on 9/7/12


1st Cliff, It's the other way around, Cliff. The myths, which you allude to, were derived from the truth of Hell. Hell existed long before the Satan's myths were written. Hell existed long before Dante's Inferno was written, and it, too, was written and patterned after the Truth. Your ignorance is that you do not know what "death" really is. And, you choose to remain blinded to the truth. You will find out the truth one day, that's for sure.
---Gordon on 9/7/12


1st Cliff, Has it not ever crossed your mind that Satan himself has conjured up those myths you're talking about in an effort to mock the reality of Hell? The Devil designed those myths for the very purpose of making light of the reality of a tormenting Hell. Satan wants people to believe that the Hell of Torments is only a "myth" in hopes that they will not bother trying to do whatever they can to avoid going to that place. And, Cliff, you're a poster-child for such people who have fallen for his LIE. And, you call yourself a Christian....? Then, why do you not do what a Christian is supposed to do, and that is, Believe the Truth about Eternal Damnation?? Because, at this time, you're not.
---Gordon on 9/7/12


Gordon, You mention different parts of "hell" (Hades)
This is actually from Greek ,underworld mythology where Hades has different areas like the Elysian fields a paradise part,then there's Plains of Asphodel a joyless area of ghosts and Tarterus the area of torture!
**the OT Saints were taken out of hell** (Tarterus) likely ferried about by the boatman Charon.
You don't seem to detect that your "religion" has been replaced by myth!
All because you refuse to believe that the dead are actually dead!

---1st_cliff on 9/6/12


Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead!
Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth, but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

The same way those who were in the graves, the son of a widow, daughter of army officer and Lazarus were dead.

Joh_21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

But, why are these things so hard to except?
I find people all the time who speak against them!
Im waiting day people will know them!
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/6/12


The Seg, I understand exactly what you are saying. "The Norm" in Scripture is what you have said and also,
"And it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment."
We know of two that did not die the normal way, Enoch and Elijah they never died. Nether those who rose from the dead, that was not the norm. At the Second Coming, that will not be the norm either. Those who are alive will rise. But the "norm" is that everyone is going to die once physically. And those believers who die physically, their spirit is never separated from God. It's not asleep some place or dead. We as believers have been Baptist into one spiritual body, in Christ, never to be separated from God again.
---Mark_V. on 9/6/12


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1st Cliff, Regardless of what happened to them after they arose from the dead, it does not change the fact that they did arise from among the dead for whatever reason GOD has for HIM causing that. We just need to accept it for the truth that it is. Those people could have died again, but, they more than likely were a part of the Old Testament Saints that were taken up into the Third Heaven. They ascended up from the Paradise side of Hell and were taken up to the Third Heaven to dwell until their final resurrection to dwell on the what is called "Heaven" on the New Earth (REVELATION 21:1). The Paradise side of Hell, and all those O.T. Saints therein, were taken out and the Hell of Torments was then "expanded" as a result.
---Gordon on 9/6/12


---TheSeg on 9/5/12

I do not understand what you are saying. I believe that Christ is the resurrecton, and that Christ was once resurrected. I am also waiting for His return.

It is because I believe that He was resurrected, that I am awaiting his return.

Please explain what you mean to me, I just do not understand what you mean
---francis on 9/6/12


francis, Rom_3:3-4 wasn't an explanation of Stephen!

Just that most people on earth do not believe Christ was the resurrection.
So they are waiting for his return!

2Pe_3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
They're not in belief of the promise!

Forgive 1st_cliff!
But, even you ask for a proof of the promise. Where are they now!
2Ki_6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
God's Peace
---TheSeg on 9/5/12


Every man, woman and child in this world will die.
Everyone must be resurrected.
---TheSeg on 9/5/12

1 Thessalonians 4:15 we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord...
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain...

If some are ALIVE when Jesus comes, it means that not all will die.

Rom 3:3, Rom 3:4 has nothing to do with stephen going to heaven.
---francis on 9/5/12


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Enoch and Elijah, who else?


Not everyone will die.
francis

Every man, woman and child in this world will die.
Everyone must be resurrected.


Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


There is nothing in the bible to suggest that stephen went to heaven at his death.
francis

Rom 3:3, Rom 3:4 God forbid!
It is hard to believe!
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/5/12


You know 1stcliff, I always find it amazing some of the thing people believe.
But, then I look at the things, I believe, and I am even more amazed!

Christ clearly said to everyone!
I am the resurrection, and the life he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live, Joh_11:25.

Now you ask Gordon, for a proof!
Where are they now since they are no longer under the Adamic sin and death? Christ paid the price!
Why would they die a second time?

Luk_20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels, and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

But, the bottom line is you just dont believe it.
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/5/12


The basic meaning of the Greek word 'kolasin' is "checking the growth of trees," or pruning, cutting off unwanted branches.-David 8318

If 'kolasin' means "checking the growth of trees," or pruning, cutting off unwanted branches, then why didn't the NWT translate the verb 'kolazo' "Cut off" in Acts 4:21. In fact it NWT rendered it as 'punish' (kit and NWT, 1984)it is also use in 2 PT 2:9 and 1 JHN 4:18, here the NWT reads as 'restraint'but if you see its footnote it does say "punishment " is a possible translation ( 1984 reference edition,NWT)
---Ruben on 9/5/12


Gordon, Let's suppose you are right, that they "rose" from death .ok?
Where are they now since they are no longer under the Adamic sin and death? Christ paid the price! Why would they die a second time?
---1stcliff on 9/5/12


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Everyone on this God given earth must DIE.

This was so ordained by God!
You must die, first!

Do you believe STEPHEN is sleeping?

I am saying some are still sleeping!
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/5/12
not everyone will die:
1 Thessalonians 4:16.. the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are ALIVE...

there is nothing in the bible to suggest that stephen went to heaven at his death. he had a vision before his death, then he died.
---francis on 9/5/12


1st Cliff, PLEASE. Not all, but, many and most of the words in the KJV mean the same today as they did back then! "Arose" is definitely one of them. AGAIN, how do you insist that "arose" does not mean "to get up from" or "came to life from the tomb" (as it applies to the people of MATTHEW 27:52) when that very same word, 'though in a different tense, as used to describe YAHUSHUA's activity from His Tomb. "Arose" means to "get up", to "rise up". It does not at all mean "to be cast out" or "to be cast forth". You're playing with words to deny the Truth, Cliff. Your blindness is causing you to misinterpret the very clear meaning of GOD's Words.
---Gordon on 9/5/12


Francis, maybe I misunderstood you.
Are you saying everyone who dies is just that dead.
Sleeping until the return of Christ?

Let's try to understand something. Everyone on this God given earth must DIE.
Sleep, rest, Pass from physical life and lose all bodily attributes and functions necessary to sustain life!

This was so ordained by God!
Gen_3:19- till thou return unto the ground, for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
You must die, first!

Do you believe STEPHEN is sleeping?
STEPHEN being full of the Holy Ghost!
Seeing the glory of God, Jesus!
Beholding the heavens opened!
Am I missing something?

I am saying some are still sleeping!
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/5/12


God's saints don't die or soul sleep, at death they go to live with Christ!
---trey on 9/4/12

francis, before the resurrection of Christ all who died were asleep.

Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ (are perished!)
Are perished, what would this mean?
---TheSeg on 9/4/12
Acts 7:60 And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

STEPHEN HAD DIED AFTER JESUS RESURRECTION, THE BIBLE SAYS HE FELL ASLEEP

1 Corinthians 15:6 the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO SAW JESUS AFTER HIS RESURRECTION DIED LATER THE BIBLE SAYS THEY FALLEN ASLEEP

1 Corinthians 15:16-20 afirms that those who died in christ, will be resurrected as christ was
---francis on 9/4/12


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In Genesis 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years, and was gathered to his people.

Note the order of events, 1)he gave up the ghost and died,
2) he was gathered to his people.
The second part of the verse is not speaking of his body it is speaking of his spirit and soul.

Matt22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

God's saints don't die or soul sleep, at death they go to live with Christ!
---trey on 9/4/12


francis, before the resurrection of Christ all who died were asleep.

1Cor_15:6 say, but (some) are fallen asleep!

Then you gave me 1Cor_15:18, which I find incredible, for it says:
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ (are perished!)
Are perished, what would this mean?
1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
The first of many!

1Thess_4:13 (concerning them) which are asleep!

Now this is great, you gave me this!
2Pe_3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

They're saying nothing has change!

Peace
---TheSeg on 9/4/12


Gordon, As I have said many times language has changed dramatically over the centuries!
Some of the definitions of "arose" (Strong's) are-arise from obscurity,from the ruins,from nonexistence.
They did not come back to life (as NIV says) else they would still be alive today.
Rev.20.6 "blessed and holy are those who have part in the 1st resurrection the second death has no power over them"
---1st_cliff on 9/4/12


francis, the word "asleep" means dead. (1 Cor. 15:14-21) explains asleep means dead.
"...For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile, you are still in your sins. Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished..." then he continues with,
"But now Christ is risen from the dead and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. (listen to this) For since by man (Adam) all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive."
Only those who are dead are made alive. He didn't say He would wake them up, but that they would be made alive. So when the word "asleep" is mentioned it means "dead."
---Mark_V. on 9/4/12


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The term "sleeping" when applied to Death, refers to the physical body that ceases to be animated or active since the soul departs from it. ---Gordon on 9/4/12

This is where the missunderstanding comes in. It is not the soul that departs from thebody at all. It is the spirit of God which Goes back to God. The soul departing mens that the soul is no more

Genesis 3:19 for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
---francis on 9/4/12


The term "sleeping" when applied to Death, refers to the physical body that ceases to be animated or active since the soul departs from it. It also simply means not being awake and living among those who are alive on the earth.
---Gordon on 9/4/12


1st Cliff, You're arguing at Seq that the Scriptures do not say that those from the graves "walked" to the city. But, yet, you will not believe the Scriptures when they say that those who were asleep in the graves "AROSE". The Scriptures don't say that they "walked" but, NEITHER do they say that they were "tossed out" of the graves! It says they "AROSE". So, how is it you rebuke someone for believing something that the Scriptures "don't say", yet, you will not believe what the Scriptures plainly DO say. The Bible says that those who were asleep in the graves AROSE. It's the same word that is used when the Scriptures say that YAHUSHUA "AROSE" from the Tomb!
---Gordon on 9/4/12


Can someone explain to me why you feel, you will be the one sleeping when you die?
---TheSeg on 9/4/12
1 Kings 2:10 So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.

1 Kings 11:43 And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father:

1 Cor 15:6 ..of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1 Cor 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep.


1 Thess 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep,

2 Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep,
---francis on 9/4/12


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aka, What's your point ???
---1st_cliff on 9/4/12


Can someone explain to me why you feel, you will be the one sleeping when you die?

When Paul told you, we shall not all sleep, 1Co_15:51.
Even when Martha said, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day, Joh_11:24

Christ even sayin, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live, Joh_11:25

Even saying: And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, (to the intent ye may believe!) Joh_11:15

Act_26:8 Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

Steveng, the first resurrection was Christ!
I am the resurrection, Joh_11:25!
Why's it so hard to believe?
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/4/12


Has anyone come across the Book of Enoch? That tells you where the soul/spirit goes after death.
---Un4given_ahki on 9/4/12


At death, I believe the Apostle Paul teaches:
2Cor5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

In reading this 5th chapter of 2nd Corinthians it is apparent that Paul is teaching, through revelation of the Holy Spirit, that when we die we go immediately to be in the presence of God.
Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Lu23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
---trey on 9/3/12


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aka, **The holy bible is God's word**
The holy bible "contains" God's words.
---1st_cliff on 9/3/12

so, does the satanic bible, the NWT, ...et al.
---aka on 9/3/12


What happens when you die?

Christians are asleep until the first resurrection at the second return of Christ, the rest of the dead at the second resurrection at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ. Blessed are those that rise at t he first resurrection.

Where are the sleeping now? They are still in the graves for it says that at the first resurrection the dead in Christ SHALL RISE and the living in Christ shall be caught up with them.

Christians today are way too educated to know simple spiritual truths.
---Steveng on 9/3/12


Leon
I understand there a 125 word limit, but I read that the first time.
So you're repeating yourself!
I now know, you think Galatians 6:7, mean: what goes around comes around.

See, I believe there a lot more significations, to these words.
Actually, you would have to read the whole of Galatians 6!
Gal_6:13!

Gal_6:1-2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

I believe you think this is what I'm doing!

Gal_6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another!
Gal_6:6!

You are governed by your choices!
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/3/12


Response to what happens at the time of death:
Corinthians 5:8 speaks of being absent from the body (when we die) and present with the Lord if we are saved. In order to be saved we must acknowledge we are a sinner, repent and ask Jesus to forgive us and ask Him to come into your heart. (Romans 10:9-10). If we die lost we are still absent from our body but we go to hell (read Luke 16:19-31)
---Patricia on 9/3/12


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"Leon, Selfology! I like it, new word!..."
---TheSeg on 9/3/12


Not exactly a real/new word, but the concept is ancient: the religious worship of one's self (creation worship). Like I said previously, don't fool yourself: "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap." ~ (Galatians 6:7) In other words, what goes around comes around.
---Leon on 9/3/12


Leon, Selfology! I like it, new word!

I'm here in an attempt to win, what, pray tell?
You just said, Converts, to groundless doctrines of unbelief? Mat_22:33!

So you must believe your Father in heaven is telling you.
You must have a religion in order to be saved!
Just where is that written?

Now, have I ever told anyone they must follow me?
Can your religions say the same thing?

1Co_1:12-13, Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you?
Were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
Groundless doctrines of unbelief!

Mat_24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things?
Verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/3/12


aka, **The holy bible is God's word**
The holy bible "contains" God's words.
---1st_cliff on 9/3/12


"...Theology! Are you saying I have one?
Because I have not a religion, nor do I profess any!..."
---TheSeg on 9/2/12


Seq: Don't fool yourself. Your "religion" (belief) is rooted in a most devout Selfology. No doubt you're here in an attempt to win converts to groundless doctrines of unbelief. Shame on you!
---Leon on 9/2/12


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1st_cliff, you're absolutely right some are trying to get their theology across!
Now that a funny thing, Theology! Are you saying I have one?
Because I have not a religion, nor do I profess any!

Take this thing called death. Many people say the dead are just that dead.
Yet, your father says he is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Mat_22:31-32 God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Mat_22:33, they were astonished at his doctrine!

Take the Follower_of_Christ, my Lord Jesus has not returned yet.
So he's waiting, maybe even looking up at the clouds for Christ to return.
I don't know, but I know this, Luk_17:20, Mat_28:20!

1Pe_3:15, 1Pe_4:17!
But, repeating this, Luk_23:43
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/2/12


1Cr 15:51,52,53 Behold, I shew you a mystery, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.


1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/2/12


it's impossible to discuss anything with a person that has this logic:

-the holy bible is God's Word.

-this story in the bible couldn't have happened and invalidates this other part.

stand up for what you do believe, before you keep telling others what not to believe.
---aka on 9/2/12


Seg, I love humor,but scripture does not give a descriptive account of the event.
It doesn't say the "walked" to the city. Some could have been carried to show onlookers the force of the quake!It doesn't infer resurrection, if they were they would still be alive here on earth,since the price of Adam's sin has been paid! Where they all righteous? How is it they didn't come out of the fundamentalist's "hell"? Where they naked or still wrapped in cloth?
Some are so anxious to get some evidence of the dead being still alive that they believe anything that seems to support their theology!
---1st_cliff on 9/2/12


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1st_cliff, I am trying to imagine what you just said.
You do know the graves were not in the city.

So the earthquake was so violent that it not only shook the bodies out of their graves, but flung them through the air into the holy city.

Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Then this really doesn't describe this event, does it?
Bodies flying through the air and landing in the city, WOW!

Look up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a plane.
No! Its 1st_cliff description of this event!

Sorry Cliff, I just had too.
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/2/12


So, you don't believe this really happen, right?
I have to wonder why Matthew said this, don't you?


Interesting. Because you don't understand Matthew 27 you believe it makes John 5 invalid? holy scripture states the Lord Jesus will resurrect all the just then rule from Jerusalem as King of Kings when he returns.. You say John 5 is invalid and isolate Matthew 27. This means the resurrection of all happened at the time the Lord was resurrected and those holy people have eternal life now on earth and the Lord is here ruling from Jerusalem. Then Im sorry to inform you your Christianity has no savior because your Lord already came and resurrected all the just. My Lord Jesus has not returned yet.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/2/12


1st Cliff, MATTHEW 27:51-53 says "...and the Earth did quake, and the rocks rent, And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the Saints which SLEPT (past tense) AROSE, And, came out of the graves, after His Resurrection, and went into the holy city, and APPEARED unto many." The dead Saints AROSE from "sleep", which is from "death", Cliff. The Bible says the dead CAME OUT of the graves, (they weren't thrown out of the ground!) They AROSE and they WENT TO the holy city and they APPEARED unto men. They were not just dead bodies cast from the ground and lying about motionless. They AROSE, and they WENT TO the city and they APPEARED UNTO men. They were ALIVE and MOVING!
---Gordon on 9/2/12


1st Cliff, You say that GOD loves people He does not "burn them"? Of course GOD loves people. But, people must CHOOSE to love and follow GOD in return. And, there has been a Lake of Fire prepared, originally just for the Devil and his angels. But, now, GOD's Judgment is that those who reject HIM to follow after the Devil and his ways will go to the same place where the Devil goes. In DEUTERONOMY 32:22, GOD says "For a Fire is kindled in Mine ANGER, and shall burn unto the lowest Hell..." That is literal, Cliff. Not metaphorical. GOD can set mountains on fire, just as HE set a Bush on fire without consuming it. Just as HE turned water into Blood for a Curse! NOTHING is impossible for GOD, except to sin.
---Gordon on 9/2/12


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Seg,Obviously it was a description that got a little out of hand,the earthquake was so violent that it shook the bodies out of their graves (they arose),but they did not come back to life,they were in various stages of decompose!
Many people saw them after Christ's resurrection!
---1st_cliff on 9/2/12


1Cliff, while waiting for your response to my answer, you wrote,

"Gordon, Why would you insist that the soul be somewhere?
It ceases to exist, waiting to be recreated in a resurrection!"


If the soul ceases to exist, how can it be waiting for the resurrection? If it doesn't exist anymore, how can it wait? What kind of logic is that? I know you want to argue a particular point, but I still do not see it.

Follower, the passages you gave in (John 5:25) again do not say what you stated. If those who are physically dead can hear the voice of God (v. 28) and the soul is dead or does not exist, how can they hear the voice of God? Do you have a clue?
---Mark_V. on 9/2/12


Follower_of_Christ, what's your take on this?

Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom, and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent,
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

You said:
As written in the word of God every soul is in hell. John 5:25,28. The first resurrection is at the return of the Lord to rule as King of Kings ruling from Jerusalem.

So, you don't believe this really happen, right?
I have to wonder why Matthew said this, don't you?

Peace
---TheSeg on 9/1/12


Follower-of-Christ, So, then, the souls of the dead, both of the Saved and the Damned......Where are they? Where are their souls residing at until "the Judgment Day"?

As written in the word of God every soul is in hell. John 5:25,28. The first resurrection is at the return of the Lord to rule as King of Kings ruling from Jerusalem. The next resurrection happens after the
1000 year reign this is the judgement. Revelation 20:5, 11-15
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/1/12


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We rest in the graves until the ressurection.then at the ressurection the truly saved ones will have eternal life & the wicked is destroyed.
---womandisciple on 9/1/12


Gordon, Why would you insist that the soul be somewhere?
It ceases to exist, waiting to be recreated in a resurrection! That's the reason your name needs to be written in the Lambs book of life.
With the Rich man being metaphorically dead the torment is part of the parable.
John.3.16 "may not perish but have everlasting life"
It's a choice of life or death, not torture or bliss!
God loves people He doesn'r burn them.
---1st_cliff on 9/1/12


Follower-of-Christ, So, then, the souls of the dead, both of the Saved and the Damned......Where are they? Where are their souls residing at until "the Judgment Day"? Are their souls waiting inside of a rotting corpse? What about the souls of those whose bodies were cremated into ashes? Are their souls dwelling and awaiting inside their pile of ashes? What if their ashes were sprinkled all across some body of water? Where does the soul go when the physical body is rotting in the ground??
---Gordon on 9/1/12


Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine, as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. (also Ezekiel 18:20) The Lord Jesus is the only soul (human being) to walk this earth, die, be dead for 3 days, and be resurrected to eternal life. The dead souls of the just wait for the reward of eternal life. Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly, and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. The just are dead. Their souls do not hear, feel pain, or have any knowledge of God. They wait until the appointed time of the resurrection of the just.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/1/12


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1st Cliff, Since you believe that the Story of Lazarus and the rich man, from LUKE 16, is merely a "Parable" that was "not meant to be taken literally", What, then, did the Lord YAHUSHUA mean when He said that the "...the rich man also died, And, IN HELL, he lift up his eyes, BEING IN TORMENTS..."? I mean, if, (as according to YOU), the damned only "die" in the sense of being completely unconscious and not being aware of anything, What, then, did YAHUSHUA mean by the rich man being "IN TORMENTS"? If the dead are unconscious and "know nothing", how can they possibly be in any kind of torments?? What did YAHUSHUA MEAN by him being IN TORMENTS??
---Gordon on 9/1/12


1Cliff, the passage is true,
"For the living know that they will die but the dead know nothing"Ecccl.9.5."
Of course the dead know nothing, they are dead. Can you go and ask a dead person if they know anything? He cannot hear you. His dead.
Then you say,
"This includes not knowing pain!"
He has no pain, his physically dead. If you ask him if he feels pain, he cannot answer because his dead. What is so hard to understand?
But if he is alive to Christ, born of the Spirit, his spirit does not die. And he can never be separated from the love of God. And if spirit, it cannot die a physical dead. How hard is that to understand? When you speak of a dead person you are describing physical death.
---Mark_V. on 9/1/12


Trey, Language changes dramatically over time. If you look up "spirit" in the concordance it is defined as air, breath, wind etc.
What happens to your breath at death? goes up or down?Eccl.3.21
Luke 23.46 according to Strong's concordance= "gave up the ghost" simply means to expire!
Note that in Acts 7.50 it says that Steven "fell asleep" when he was stoned.
Yes asleep in death,("Jesus receive my last breath,pneuma, return it to me at resurrection) is what he was implying!
Let's stay with reality not abstracts!
---1st_cliff on 9/1/12


At death:
The spirit of the child of God returns to God:
Eccl3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Christ stated: Lu23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

And if we compare this to what Stephen stated when he was stoned in Acts 7:59-60 we see the same type language.
---trey on 8/31/12


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What does scripture say happens when a person dies?
---1st_cliff on 8/30/12
Genesis 3:19 for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
---francis on 8/31/12


Gordon, For 1,000 years the Israelites believed Solomon's words in Ecclesiastes that the dead know nothing,then is corrected by Luke's parable (at best) of a metaphor that you take as literal?
Which one is a true literal statement?
---1st_cliff on 8/31/12


1 Thessalonians 4:14 speaks of Christians who "sleep in Jesus". And we have, "My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you." (Galatians 4:19) So, when we die we have Jesus in us. So, whatever happens to us when we die, it is with Jesus in us and happening to Him, too, in us, I consider. And I notice how those souls were under the altar and able to talk (Revelation 6:9-11), and they were told "that they should rest a little longer". You can do a lot in your sleep, including in your dreams and talking and walking in your sleep (c: lolololololol Those souls are resting "a little longer".
---willie_c: on 8/31/12


//The fundamentalists believe it's separation from God but nowhere in scripture does it say that!//

i have never heard anybody say that.
---aka on 8/31/12


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then the judgment
---James_L on 8/31/12


1st Cliff, "...the rich man also died, and was buried, And, in Hell, he lift up his eyes, being in Torments..." LUKE 16: 22b-23a
---Gordon on 8/31/12


There are all manner of theories form the primitive to the enlightened but how does the bible describe death?
The fundamentalists believe it's separation from God but nowhere in scripture does it say that! (death separates you from the living,that's why they bury you)
"For the living know that they will die but the dead know nothing"Ecccl.9.5.
This includes not knowing pain!
---1st_cliff on 8/31/12


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