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Did The Pope Change Sabbath

Some people here--and it's not limited to the SDAs--blame "the pope" for changing the Sabbath to Sunday for Christians.

May I ask the NAME of the pope who did so, WHEN this happened, and if they can give the appropriate documentation?

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 ---Cluny on 9/4/12
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It is hear-say since none of you have had an abortion in any SDA hospital or have met anyone who has had an abortion in SDA hospital.--francis on 9/9/12

You're kidding, right??

There is an interesting article you should read: Investigation into our Adventist involvement with the Abortion Industry, by Nic Samojluk (a member of the SDA). You can cut and paste into google and it should come up.

Abortions, including on demand abortions, are being performed in Adventist hospitals. To deny it's happening is ludicrous.
---NurseRobert on 9/10/12


\\severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus,\\

In other words, kill the unborn child because he is not perfect.

\\ and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest\\

In other words, execute the child for the crime of the father.

\\The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation."\\

I really don't see how this official position of the SDA differs from the pro-choice position, Nurse Robert.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/10/12


---TheSeg on 9/10/12

Are you trying to say that God did not authorize them to God to war? or that they did not target males in teh womb?

What then do you say about God's command destroy even those who are breast feeding?

As to numbers 5: is it not gdo himself who gives the law of Jealosly, which when perform will abort a baby who is the child of adultery?
---francis on 9/10/12


The SDA guidelines instructs that prenatal human life is a magnificent gift of God. God's ideal for human beings affirms the sanctity of human life, in God's image, and requires respect for prenatal life.

Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas
such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest.

What does your own church guideline say? Your church has a guideline, you may just not know it. look it up.
---francis on 9/10/12


francis. Go read the post in, What Job A Perfect Man.
for the answer to the Judges 20:27-28!

As for Numbers 5:27, also!
Rom_12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath:
For it is written, Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord!

(and have done trespass against her husband!)
No walking away from God!

Love you
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/10/12




Hi, guys, did you miss me??

Cluny, FYI, the SDA website says..

"Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation."

Ted Wilson himself said SDA hospitals perform abortions.
---NurseRobert on 9/9/12


As to the abortion issue.

Everyone of you who have a problem with SDA hospitals doing abortions,
A: It is hear-say since none of you have had an abortion in any SDA hospital or have met anyone who has had an abortion in SDA hospital.
B: All you know is what you read on the internet
C: You are all being hypocrites since your own church has the very same guidelines for abortion as the SDA church, the problem is that you just have not read your own church guildlines
---francis on 9/9/12


But the question is, is killing an unborn baby a sin?
A simple yes or no will do!
---TheSeg on 9/9/12
Judges 21:11 And this is the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male, and every woman that hath lain by man.

The target here is every male. This included the males that are in the womb.

Numbers 5:27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.

Here, a pregnancy is terminated if the woman is pregnant through adultery
---francis on 9/9/12


If you doubt that abortions are done in SDA hospitals, simply search for {{SDA hospitals and abortion}}, and find it out for yourself.

Cluny I won't bother to look into it because here in America tax payer funded abortions will become a reality with Obama re-election officially making every single American funding baby-killing-mills by their income taxes. In addition another bill before 211th congress to make every single health care provider be forced to provide abortions regardless of their religious or personal beliefs on the matter making your sda hospital agenda a moot point in America, although many claim it won't happen the language is so ambiguous the translation about these pending laws is defined as unclear.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/9/12


---Cluny on 9/8/12

I hardly think that you would be the one to which anyone would ask spiritual question.

Your answers would anly reflect the teaching fo " church fathers," None of which were christian, and none of which were bible authors
---francis on 9/9/12




FoC, I do not hate SDAs personally.

i DO hate the false doctrines and lies they teach. Error has no rights at the expense of truth.

If you doubt that abortions are done in SDA hospitals, simply search for {{SDA hospitals and abortion}}, and find it out for yourself.

BTW, the only reason I'm answering you, FoC, is that you deny you're SDA.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/9/12


It seems to me, if a person love God and God hates sin.
A person who loves God would also hate sin.

Or has sinning stopped being a sin?
Or is killing an unborn baby not a sin?

Now I know were all sinners.
But the question is, is killing an unborn baby a sin?
A simple yes or no will do!

Any taker or simpler yet!
Will anyone say killing an unborn baby is not a sin?

I do not hate the person, but the act!
I do not hate the building, but the act committed in the building.
For they are saying its ok to kill.

But dont break the Sabbath.
But killing someone, thats up to you!
How is this keeping the law?
---TheSeg on 9/9/12


***********

Cluny: I think that FoC has got your number. You are obsessed with hatred of SDAs.

While I concur with your objection to abortions in ANY hospital, I do not hate all Catholics, Presbyterians, etc. because someone may have performed an abortion in one of their hospitals. Such thinking is irrational at best, and psychotic at worst.

I once heard a rumor of abortions in an Adventist hospital, but I've seen no proof of it. Have you?

**********
---jerry6593 on 9/9/12


Henceforth I will ignore all questions from members of ANY church that builds hospitals where abortions are done.

Such persons are in no position to claim the spiritual or moral high ground.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/8/12


\\If you were Orthodox instead of Catholic, you'd keep the seventh-day Sabbath and reject Evolution as did the Apostles!\\

Someone who is a member of a man-made (or woman-made) denomination that builds hospitals that kills unborn babies is hardly in a position to claim the moral or spiritual high ground about ANYTHING.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/8/1


good grief you are so consumed with hate bitterness stife unhappiness and eagerness to push your adventist-hating-agenda you are cross-posting on topics now to spew your hate. This is the sabbath topic you opened and now you can't get enough of your hate-riddled posts in one topic you have to post them in another. cluny are you posting from prison?
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/8/12


//Then why do SDA hospitals kill babies before they are born?
---\
That is because Adventists view all the commandments to be contained in the Sabbath commandment.

For God so loved the world that He gave us His Sabbath that whomsoever observes it will not perish but have eternal life. Adventists practical bible.
---elee7537 on 9/8/12


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Then why do SDA hospitals kill babies before they are born?
---Cluny on 9/8/12
YAAWWWNN
---francis on 9/8/12


\\If you were Orthodox instead of Catholic, you'd keep the seventh-day Sabbath and reject Evolution as did the Apostles!\\

Someone who is a member of a man-made (or woman-made) denomination that builds hospitals that kills unborn babies is hardly in a position to claim the moral or spiritual high ground about ANYTHING.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/8/12


\\Francis//Seventh day Adventist are BIBLE believing Christians.
\\

Then why do SDA hospitals kill babies before they are born?

Any church that does so has NO way to claim the moral and spiritual high ground.

As God Himself said, "I hate and despise your sabbaths. I cannot abide iniquity and solemn assembly."

If abortion is not iniquity, then words have no meaning.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/8/12


Acts 10:45 on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 11:1 And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

There was already in the areas many gentiles who had converted. So why must these other gentiles come NEXT SABBATH, if those who hold sunday for christians, and sabbath for jews are correct?
---francis on 9/8/12


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//It is today, as it was back in the times of the apostles, the word of God is preached EVERY SABBATH, and the word of man every sunday

Only an ignorant fool would say that since the Bible is preached on Sunday it has to be the word of man.
---elee7537 on 9/8/12


The universal and uncontradicted Sunday observance in the 2d century can only be explained by the fact that it had its roots in apostolic practice. Such observance had no support in civil legislation before the age of Constantine, and must have been connected with many inconveniences, considering the lowly social condition of the majority of Christians and their dependence upon their heathen masters and employers. Sunday thus became, by an easy and natural transformation, the Christian Sabbath or weekly day of rest, at once answering the typical import of the Jewish Sabbath, and itself forming in turn a type of the eternal rest of the people of God in the heavenly Canaan.

Schaff, Philip History of the Christian,p478
---elee7537 on 9/8/12


//Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath..And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Some Adventists think that because the gospel was preached first to the Jews (and Gentile proselytes) in the synagogues on the Jewish Sabbath, that that became the norm for the Christian church. The historical fact is that Gentile churches which were usually home churches, always met, not in the synagogues on the Sabbath but on the Lord's Day (the Lord's day being recognized as Sunday in the writings of the early church fathers).
---elee7537 on 9/8/12


It is today, as it was back in the times of the apostles, the word of God is preached EVERY SABBATH, and the word of man every sunday

This statement explains why people go to great lengths to defend Sunday, the first day of the week, as holy because they follow men. It is easy to understand because nothing in holy scripture authorizes the first day of the week as holy! People go to such depths to foolishly and ignorantly defend mans Sunday as holy when you can go from Genesis to Revelation and not find one line or even one word authorizing the first day of the week as holy. Likewise, no words abolish Gods holy Sabbath. The Lord Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath that was created forever Exodus 31:16
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/8/12


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---elee7537 on 9/7/12
---mike on 9/7/12
Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath..And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

If what you are saying ws true, then these gentiles would have come NEXT DAY to a sunday gathering, rather than NEXT SABBATH

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Where are those who are preaching the word of God EVERY SUNDAY?

It is today, as it was back in the times of the apostles, the word of God is preached EVERY SABBATH, and the word of man every sunday
---francis on 9/8/12


************

Cluny: You must have missed this. I'll repeat it.

YOU are the only one here who has said that the Pope created the Sunday counterfeit sabbath. I have stated that the Pope keeps the false worship day - not that he created it. Sun worship was going on long before the Catholic Church, but the first Sunday law was the Edict of Constantine in 331 AD. But, the Catholic church claims that Sunday is a "MARK" of her ecclesiastical authority.

I can understand how a devout Catholic like you would be sensitive on the subject, but your premise is flawed - very flawed.

If you were Orthodox instead of Catholic, you'd keep the seventh-day Sabbath and reject Evolution as did the Apostles!

**************
---jerry6593 on 9/8/12


Francis//Seventh day Adventist are BIBLE believing Christians.

And so are other Christians.

We believe that the Bible alone is the Word of God, but you Adventists believe that Ellen White's writings are also authoritative. And it is her interpretation of the Bible that you are stuck with regardless of any proven facts.

You Adventists are much like the Mormons with their Book of Mormons and like the Jehovah's Witnesses with ther Watchtower magazine.

---elee7537 on 9/7/12


The blessing of God is to those who worship Hiim in Spirit and truth, regardless of time or place.

Interesting because the words regardless of time or place is not written in John 4:23! Why would anyone go to such depths to foolishly and ignorantly defend Sunday the scriptures do not abolish Gods holy sabbath day and nothing establishes the first day of the week as being holy or the first day of the week replacing the holy Sabbath day Maybe people should ask themselves why they defend Sunday when Gods Word does not!!! The Lord Jesus is Lord to those who obey him as their Lord, their high priest, and mediator. Impossibility to call the Lord Jesus your Lord when you do not believe he is Lord of the Sabbath.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/7/12


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after god created the world in 6 days he rested on the sabbath / saturday. jewish nation did not exist so sabbath saturday started during the creation. there were early christians who serviced on the 1st day/sunday but it was not changed that sabbath is sunday.
---mike on 9/7/12


I see a lot of comments / post, but only those who keep the seventh day holy as God commands have any scripture to support thier beliefs.


Those who do not keep the sabbath give many lies why they do not keep the sabbath, many lies.

Those who keep the sabbath give ONE UNCHANGABLE TRUTH:
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
---francis on 9/7/12


\\Seventh day Adventist are BIBLE believing Christians.\\

Then why do your Adventist hospitals murder babies by abortion?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/7/12


1."priest has special duties..." The priest here is of Israel, There is no formal priethood in the church.
2. "They punished people..." but there is no penalty for breaking the Sabbath in the New Testament. The fact is breaking the Jewish Sabbath is not even listed as a sins in the NT.
3. "The Bible says..." Since worshippers gathered on the Sabbath, it was a convenient venue to present the gospel.
4. "MOST IMORTANT..." This would clearly be a problem in parts of the world as the date-line determines what day it is and where the sun does not rise or set as in Polar regions.

The blessing of God is to those who worship Hiim in Spirit and truth, regardless of time or place.
---elee7537 on 9/7/12


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\\2: They punished people for not keeping the sabbath. If anyday was sabbath hwo would they know when one was not keeping the sabbath\\

That means that SDAs would be punished because before the invention of the automobile, they rode horses and horse drawn vehicles to their conventicles, and today drive automobiles, which light fires--both acts FORBIDDEN in the OT on the Sabbath.

SDAs also do not observe all of the OT Sabbaths, but pick and choose which ones they observe.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/7/12


It is sad that some Adventists have as their idol the Jewish Sabbath and have become immune to the truth of this matter.

much sadder to see you are deceived by men who call it the Jewish Sabbath because scriptures do not mention any Jewish Sabbath The Lord Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath Day. There are no verses abolishing his holy Sabbath Day and nothing establishes the first day of the week. The Lord of the Sabbath will return after the times of sorrow to destroy all the governments and religions of the world to establish Gods Kingdom on earth ruling as King of Kings from Jerusalem. Why call him Lord, your high priest, and mediator when you do not believe he is Lord of the Sabbath?
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/7/12


Seventh day Adventist are BIBLE believing Christians.

We believe that God created the world in six days, and rested the seventh day.
We believe in an unchanging God

Weile there are many examples of christians both Hebrew and None-hebrew who continue keeping sabbath in the new testement, there are no commands by God to change his holy day from 7th to any other.
Only the lowlifes teach that we can break and teach against the ten commandments

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the lowest form of life by those in the the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
---francis on 9/7/12


The Sabbath can be any day you choose,
---Mark_Eaton on 9/7/12
not acording to the bible.

1: The priest had special duties to perfom only on the sabbath. If any day can be sabbath then those duties would have been done every day.

2: They punished people for not keeping the sabbath. If anyday was sabbath hwo would they know when one was not keeping the sabbath

3: The bible says that the gentiles requested and came next sabbath to hear God. If sabbath was not a specific day, how would they have known which day to come?
4: MOST IMPORTANT that time period between sunset friday and sunset Saturday is the only time period blesssed by God. That blessing is not transferable: GOd said that the sabbath is the 7th day
---francis on 9/7/12


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The universal and uncontradicted Sunday observance in the second century can only be explained by the fact that it had its roots in apostolic practice. Such observance is the more to be appreciated as it had no support in civil legislation before the age of Constantine, and must have been connected with many inconveniences, considering the lowly social condition of the majority of Christians and their dependence upon their heathen masters and employers.

Schaff, Philip (2011-07-10). History of the Christian Church
---elee7537 on 9/7/12


The ignorant Adventists cannot point to a single pope or council in the ancient world where and when the Sabbath was changed. The fact is the Sabbath was not changed as Jewish Christians continued to observe the Sabbath. Gentiles, however, met on Sundays and that is the finding of even SDA church historians.

It is sad that some Adventists have as their idol the Jewish Sabbath and have become immune to the truth of this matter.

It is wonderful news that many former Adventists have found the truth and are now worshipping in the more Biblically oriented churches.
---elee7537 on 9/7/12


Cluny with all due respect,you must have missed where I said Christians were already meeting on Sunday when Constantine changed the day of rest in the Roman Empire. It is history which says his doing that was a key factor in it becoming a practice throughout the Roman Empire to rest on Sunday instead of Saturday. He didn't change the Spiritual Law of God but instead changed the secular Law of the Land never-the-less it affected all people who lived there. What I am saying doesn't change what you are saying or vice versa. Perhaps you don't like me giving more official credit to him than the Catholic church and if so I'm sorry but that is the information I have found.
---Darlene_1 on 9/7/12


\\Cluny: YOU are the only one here who has said that the Pope created the Sunday counterfeit sabbath. \\

WRONG AGAIN, jerry.

YOU are the one who says the pope changed it, and drag Mithraism into the conversation, but have NEVER offered any proof.

As I have repeatedly said, there were services in the Temple and synagogues DAILY, not just on the Sabbath.

Darlene: As I said, Christians were already, meeting in the wee hours of Sunday for the Eucharist, as the Apology of St. Justin proves--and it was written at least TWO CENTURIES before Constantine.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/7/12


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In answer to Cluny and others Sunday as the principal day of Christian worship has come down to us from Apostolic times, when the Christians would meet early on the first day of the week before going off to work for the Eucharist.

Constantine simply made Christianity legal in 312. He himself was not baptized (and therefor allowed to receive the Eucharist) until he was on his deathbed.
---James68 on 9/7/12


The sabbath is and always will be exactly what God called it. A reminder that God created the world is six days, and rested the 7th.
---francis on 9/6/12

You got it. Combine that thought with these verses:

Rom 14:5 "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind"

Mark 2:27 "And He said to them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath"

The Sabbath can be any day you choose, if your purpose in the day is to rest and to honor God as He designed the Sabbath. To the Jews, he gave them the seventh day. I was called to liberty and not the law, so in my liberty I choose the first day.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/7/12


Cluny sorry but you are mistaken in saying Constantine changed nothing. We all know he couldn't change God's Spiritually choosen Day of Rest,Saturday,but he changed the law of the Roman Empire. 331 AD Constantine decreed,"On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest and let all workshops be closed." Found in Codex Justinianus. By doing this he changed the official day of rest in the Roman Empire from Saturday to Sunday. Some say its because he possibly wanted it to line up with what some Christians were already doing. His reason is lost in time but history views it as being a key reason it was widely practiced.
---Darlene_1 on 9/7/12


************

Cluny: YOU are the only one here who has said that the Pope created the Sunday counterfeit sabbath. I have stated that the Pope keeps the false worship day - not that he created it. Sun worship was going on long before the Catholic Church, but the first Sunday law was the Edict of Constantine in 331 AD. But, the Catholic church claims that Sunday is a "MARK" of her ecclesiastical authority.

I can understand how a devout Catholic like you would be sensitive on the subject, but your premise is flawed - very flawed.

**************
---jerry6593 on 9/7/12


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\\ the monstrance or ostensorium is the same sun disk used in all pagan deities and worship of Baal. It is worshiped and bowed down to. mind contol in its highest form.\\

Wrong again, as in everything you say, FoC.

It is not the monstrance, which is only a holder, that is venerated, but the Eucharistic Host inside. The propriety of Eucharistic Adoration is NOT the subject of this blog. Suffice it to say that the Orthodox, which I am, have no such practice.

ALL bread in the Middle East is round.

I just hope that your conventicle doesn't have round offering plates, especially of brass. Otherwise, you are making an offering to the sun, and fall under your own condemnation.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/6/12


Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him..

1 Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

It is by baptism, and the Lord's supper that we celebrate the rison Christ.

The sabbath is and always will be exactly what God called it. A reminder that God created the world is six days, and rested the 7th.

Revelation 14:7 Fear God, and give glory to him, and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

You need to see the truth, that the sabbath has always been about the creator. While Jesus is NOT the first and only person to be resurrected, he will always be the ONLY CREATOR
---francis on 9/6/12


i got it!

let's meet seven days a week and cover all the bases.

{{{{No...that won't work for me. i don't have money and i know they would hit me up for a tithe every night and they would lay all kinds of snares made of pure guilt.}}}}

never mind!
---aka on 9/6/12


---Cluny on 9/6/12
The ignorance that you display is amazing

John 9:1 as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
John 9:14 And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.

Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn.

Ezekiel 46:3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths
Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Unless Jesus grew corn in his basement, he left his house and walked.
The blind man did not come to Jesus, Jesus was passing by.
The whole city did not watch the mass on television the came to mass
---francis on 9/6/12


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\\Do you keep the Sabbath holy in the way designated by God in His Word?\\

I know for a fact that SDAs do not.

The very fact they leave their homes on the Sabbath shows that they are disobeying Ex 16:29.

Furthermore, if they drive their cars, they are still violating the Sabbath, which was never about worship, but rest from labor that extended even to one's farm animals. The internal combustion engine works by lighting fires, and the commandments about hOW to keep the Sabbath forbid lighting fires.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/6/12


Do you keep the Sabbath holy in the way designated by God in His Word?

Interesting choices! You point out the laws of Moses also known as the mosiac laws. These mosiac laws are the civil ordinances that were taken out of the way Colossians 2:14. Afterall 613 laws would be against us in comparison to 10 simple laws of God all perfect holy just and certainly not a burden or grievous 1 John 5:3 let's ask the question nobody can answer again where does the Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus, abolish his holy Sabbath day and which verse establishes the first day of the week?
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/6/12


Pentecost was not on the Sabbath! Pentecost occurred on Sunday.
Paul speaks of meeting on the first day of the week.
The Jews kept the Sabbath.
Christians give of the first fruits. We celebrate a risen Saviour!!! What day was it when Christ arose....Oh yeah, Sunday.

In truth is not every day holy unto the Lord?
Rom14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
---trey on 9/6/12


Francis - Anyone knowledgeable of church history would say to you that the gospel was first preached to the Jews, so it would make sense to present the gospel to them when they gathered together in the synagogues.

In the early church there were both Jewish Christians who continued in the Mosaic customs and worship (Acts 15:21, 21:21) and Gentile Christians who were free from observing laws peculiar to Judaism.(Acts 15:19,20,24)

Again there is virtually nothing in the New Testament (New Covenant) that even hints of a command for everyone to observe the Jewish Sabbath.
---elee7537 on 9/6/12


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Did the Pope changed the Sabbath? Adventists will quote the Catholic catechism to that effect with its claim that it has the authority to change the Sabbath, however, the same catechism will say that the church changed the Sabbath during the time of the Apostles. All Christians to the Roman Church were considered Roman Catholics including the Apostles and all of their successors.

Adventism is too stuck on observing the Jewish Sabbath to realize that the Sabbath was not part of the New Covenant.
---elee7537 on 9/6/12


the penalty for disobedience to these Sabbath "rules" is death.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/6/12
Same penalty for adultery.

It clearly is not part of the New Covenant
---elee7537 on 9/6/12
Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Why not NEXT day?
Where were those who taught the word of God every first
day?
When Did God stop being THE CREATOR?

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth,.. shall come to pass, that...from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
---francis on 9/6/12


Do you keep the Sabbath holy in the way designated by God in His Word?

Interesting choices! You point out the laws of Moses also known as the mosiac laws. These mosiac laws are the civil ordinances that were taken out of the way Colossians 2:14. Afterall 613 laws would be against us in comparison to 10 simple laws of God all perfect holy just and certainly not a burden or grievous 1 John 5:3 let's ask the question nobody can answer again where does the Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus, abolish his holy Sabbath day and which verse establishes the first day of the week?
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/6/12


The heart of the matter and real question is can you give appropriate documentation when the Lord specifically stated he abolished his holy Sabbath day and specifically declared to observe and established the first day of the week?
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/6/12

Right back at you.

Do you keep the Sabbath holy in the way designated by God in His Word? Not traveling more than a Sabbath days journey? Not lighting a fire? Not cooking? Not cleaning? Not working in any way? Not driving? Not shopping?

Oh, by the way, the penalty for disobedience to these Sabbath "rules" is death.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/6/12


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Roman Catholics have NEVER worshipped the sun.

of course not!! the monstrance or ostensorium is the same sun disk used in all pagan deities and worship of Baal. It is worshiped and bowed down to. mind contol in its highest form. Satan did not appear as evil in the garden he appeared as helpful even supportive. Did you think he changed his spots? Of course not. The Lord says evil is evil. Problems arise when people follow people who tell them they can make evil (worship of the sun) good and even calling it holy. the monstrance and sunday observance are doctrine of devils. I'll ask again. Which verse abolishes Gods holy sabbath day and which verse establishes the first day of the week??
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/6/12


\\catholic religion is outside of Christianity with their queen of heaven (their mediator), worship of sun, and other traditions of men.\\

Roman Catholics have NEVER worshipped the sun.

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/6/12


//More to the point the Lord Jesus never uttered the words his holy Sabbath day was abolished and most importantly there are no words that establish the first day of the week as the Sabbath Day.

You have been misled.
While the observance of the Jewish sabbath was not abolished, it clearly is not part of the New Covenant of His church. If it were then most certainly we would see at least a hint of a command to observe it in the New Testament, but we do not. It is also too easy to see from early church history that Sunday became the date of communal worship and that by 135 AD - just a few years after the death of the last Apostles.
---elee7537 on 9/6/12


Very unlikely that Revelation 1:10 serves to show that the apostles were using another day.
---francis on 9/6/12

Why is that?

You use passages from Acts to show that the Apostles preached on the Sabbath yet do not include the fact that the gospel is to the Jew first and then the Gentile. Meaning, the gospel was preached to the Jews on Sabbath, and to the Gentiles not on the Sabbath.

The Revelation was written after the Gospel had been taken to the Gentiles, and things like the "Lord's day" were not available when Acts was written. By this time, the other Apostles are likely dead and the Christian church has split from the Jewish faith and would likely not want to worship on the "Jewish" day.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/6/12


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You are missing the point of the verse, keep reading then you will know why Paul was preaching at the Sabbath day:

whatever wayward idea or anything you infer about the verse is given by man not the written world of God. Paul preached on the Sabbath Day because the Lord Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. God declared commanded and made perfect the holy Sabbath day made for mankind (forever) not just for the Jew. More to the point the Lord Jesus never uttered the words his holy Sabbath day was abolished and most importantly there are no words that establish the first day of the week as the Sabbath Day. By disobeying Gods holy sabbath and keeping any other day it is an impossibility to declare you follow the Lord Jesus.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/6/12


francis* Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

If they were using another day, this verse would have read NEXT DAY rather than NEXT SABBATH

You are missing the point of the verse, keep reading then you will know why Paul was preaching at the Sabbath day:

When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him. Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.
---Ruben on 9/6/12


Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Luke ( traditionally a none jew) writes to another none jew, that Moses of old ( the word of God) was preached every sabbath day. Where is the mention of those who were preaching every sunday?
---francis on 9/6/12

Francis,

As you correctly pointed out Luke was a non-jew and speaking to Greek Gentiles, and he was only saying is what Jewish christians do gather on the sabbath no where does he say so we must do the same!
---Ruben on 9/6/12


I am not sda and could care less (nor blame) any Pope for teaching mankind to break Gods Holy Sabbath command. catholic religion is outside of Christianity with their queen of heaven (their mediator), worship of sun, and other traditions of men. Their choice to disobey the Holy Sabbath and teach others to do this is their choice by free will. Followers of the Lord observe the holy Sabbath day as God commanded afterall the high priest and Lord of the Sabbath is Jesus.

The heart of the matter and real question is can you give appropriate documentation when the Lord specifically stated he abolished his holy Sabbath day and specifically declared to observe and established the first day of the week?
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/6/12


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---Mark_Eaton on 9/5/12
Very unlikely that Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day' serves to show that the apostles were using another day.

John, Luke, Paul, Peter are all contenporaries.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

If they were using another day, this verse would have read NEXT DAY rather than NEXT SABBATH

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Luke ( traditionally a none jew) writes to another none jew, that Moses of old ( the word of God) was preached every sabbath day. Where is the mention of those who were preaching every sunday?
---francis on 9/6/12


francis, we know you can't answer the question I actually asked here. Please don't waste any more space.

Thank you.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/6/12


YESTERDAY
Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

TODAY
Acts 13:44 the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach...every sabbath day.

FOREVER
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth.. it shall come to pass, that from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD


Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines
---francis on 9/5/12


Rev 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,
---Mark_Eaton on 9/5/12

Since the text does not say which day is the Lord's day. We will have to look elsewhere in scripture to find which day is The Lord's day.

Isaiah 58:13.. the sabbath,.. my holy day,.. the holy of the LORD,

Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God ( NOT JEWISH NOT CHRISTIAN but this day is the Lord's day)

Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
---francis on 9/5/12


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For me, the question that must be answered by anyone expousing the theory that Rome changed the Sabbath day to Sunday, is what exactly is meant in this verse:

Rev 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet"

The Apostle John was referring to a specific day, designated as the Lord's day, but not referring to any Sabbath day, which John would have known, being a Jew.

What specifically is meant by John is unknown, but I believe this verse provides definitive proof that first century believers already were using a different day dedicated unto the Lord Jesus, likely for worshipping on.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/5/12


Two things here,Constantine was overtly anti-Semitic,did not want to observe Sat. as a holy day to distance themselves from the Jews.
He was the High priest of Sol, the sun god who reverenced Sunday!
---1st_cliff on 9/5/12


\\And yes it is from Rome that this attempted change originated
---francis on 9/5/12\\

Prove it. Repeating something over and over is not proof.

Darlene, Constantine didn't change anything.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/5/12


There is no doubt that christians met on sundays, wednesdays and even tuesdays. nothing in the word of God prevents people from meeting on every or any day of the week

Luke 19:47 And he taught daily in the temple.

Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

There is also nothing in the entire bible that gives any human the right to change the laws of God.

And yes it is from Rome that this attempted change originated
---francis on 9/5/12


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Doesit really matter who TRIED to change it?

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast.. shall...think to change times and laws:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
---francis on 9/5/12


Cluny,yes Christians were meeting on Sunday before Constantine but his change of worship to draw Pagans to Christianity was a key factor in changing worship to Sunday officially. Look again I didn't say Pagans worshipped on Saturday like the Jews,I said Sunday.
---Darlene_1 on 9/5/12


In other words, francis, you cannot give the actual NAME of the pope who changed it.

Wrong, Darlene 1. Christians were already worshipping on Sunday before Constantine, as the Apology of Justin Martyr, written in 125, proves. And the pagans had NO weekly worship day corresponding to the Jewish Sabbath.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/5/12


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