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The Gospel Of Salvation

Does the gospel cause or bring forth salvation in the sinner?

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 ---trey on 9/5/12
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Nana: Why do you falsely say that I claim that Christians can behave any which way and face no repercussions?
God disciplines us, as I have said many times before.

I'm curious what you claim repercussions are for wrong behavior?

Can you give us your definition of 'sin'? I suspect we may define sin differently.

As the wages of sin is death, and you claim you still sin in spite of the cross, where do you stand as a result of your continued 'sin'?
And remember, ONLY PAST sin was forgiven, Rom 3:25.
---Haz27 on 9/29/12


"Neither be ye idolaters,
Neither let us commit fornication,
Neither let us tempt Christ,
Neither murmur ye,
Give none offence,

... Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Guaranteed disinheritance?

The sinful nature can be kept in check as Christ said and Paul repeats, Gal 5:17, 5:24_25. Verse 25, "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." Just as John also said.

Haz is deluded in thinking that a christian may walk and behave any which way and it is not sin which have repercussions.
---Nana on 9/28/12


Nana: DEATH is the outcome for anyone who sins? Do you sin or have you been set free from it (John 8,36, Rom 6:7), ceased from it (1Pet 4:1)?

And what "sin" is the world convicted of? UNBELIEF, John 16:9.

What is God's will for us to obey? BELIEVE on Jesus, John 6:40

What are our works? BELIEVE on Jesus, John 6:29

Whats His commandments? BELIEVE on Jesus and love one another, 1John 3:23

And how do we do righteousness? BELIEVE on Jesus, Rom 4:5

How do we walk in the light, instead of darkness? BELIEVE on Jesus (John 8:12)
---Haz27 on 9/28/12


What is sin?

John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."


1 John 1:6_7 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

1 John 2:6 "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

1 John 2:29 "If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him."


Any thought, word, or deed not conforming to Christ's mandates and examples is sin.
---Nana on 9/28/12


Duane/Haz, neither one of you can change what sin is. You might have been forgiven for all your sins, but once you are saved, you will continue to sin. And if you do you are a sinner. It might not be counted against you, but it is still sin. Let me ask you what Jesus ask the young ruler, "sell everything you have and give the money to the poor, and follow Christ" you will say, "I cannot, I have a family" and Jesus said, if you love your mother, brother, son, daughter more then Me, you are not worthy of Me" (Matt. 10:37) I don't hear either one selling everything and giving the money to the poor. Jesus will say, "I never knew you" so before you claim sinlessness, you better read the Bible over again.
---Mark_V. on 9/28/12




Hi Nana: Matt 5:16 "Good works"?
These works are to believe on Jesus, John 6:29. This is God's will for us to obey, John 6:40.
The verses before Matt 5:16 confirm this too.

Phil 2:15,16 similarly describes this "Let your light so shine before men" by "holding forth the word of life" (the gospel of Christ). This is being a peacemaker.

Those who are told "depart from me ye that work iniquity" and those who by their works they deny Him, Tit 1:16. They are disobedient to the gospel through their desire to be under the law for righteousness by works, instead of by faith. They are in unbelief (SIN, John 16:9).
---Haz27 on 9/28/12


"Stop judging yourself and others according to outward appearance/behavior. That is not how righteousness is determined."
---Haz27 on 9/26/12

To Christ it is important what his followers do:
Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

Titus 2

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Some of these cat will be told, "depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

They'll say, 'sorry you're too late, I'm righteous'?
You must not need God's grace either?
---Nana on 9/28/12


"The Gospel of Jesus Christ is Being freed from sin.....HE made us righteous". duane on 9/27/12.
AMEN !

Mark V you said: "It's very important you have the Truth."

Correct. And what is the truth in scripture:

"If the Son sets you FREE (from sin) you shall be FREE indeed" John 8:36
We have:
"CEASED from sin", 1Pet 4:1
"CANNOT sin", 1John 3:9
"FREED from sin", Rom 6:7
We're righteous and NOT sinners, 1Tim 1:9, 1Pet 4:18

This is the truth according to scripture, which you have been struggling and failing to disprove. As your doctrine is clearly not supported in scripture why would you hang onto it? Why deny that Christ set us free from sin?
---Haz27 on 9/27/12


The Gospel of Jesus Christ is Being freed from sin. That means we are not sinners anymore. We are free indeed. All transgressions are forgiven and taken away, here, now and forever. Jesus Christ is life. Sin is death.
Jesus took away sin so there would be no death to those who believe and trust in HIM.
This is why we can say were saved(have life). Sin is no more for HIS sons and daughters. HE made us righteous.
---duane on 9/27/12


For those of you who dont believe Christ came and freed men from sin, I will say you have not heard or believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The good news is that we are not in bondage anymore, sin is not counted, your dead to sin now. Sin is gone, taken away through the power of the Cross. When you believe this, you believe in the Gospel.
Dont be ashamed to proclaim the Gospel.
---duane on 9/27/12




Haz, I am not trying to be mean to you. I'm trying to tell you if you say you have not sinned, you are deceived, and the Truth is not in you. It's very important you have the Truth. It's very important that you don't call God a liar. By suggesting that, you are sinning. Every word you say you will be held accountable. And please understand, when you tell this to unbelievers you sin. By sinning, the gospel will have no power. We all come short of the glory of God, we are all in great need of Christ everyday, even us believers. We are carnal sometimes, but that is not our state of being. Because we walk in the Spirit but we fail many times to do that. Paul understood that very well, you should also by now.
---Mark_V. on 9/27/12


Follower of Christ:
We "CANNOT sin", 1John 3:9
"CEASED from sin", 1Pet 4:1
"FREED from sin", Rom 6:7
We're righteous and NOT sinners, 1Tim 1:9, 1Pet 4:18

People who sin are:
"of the devil", 1John 3:8
"servants of sin", John 8:34
"have not seen Him, nor known Him", 1John 3:6

Do you doubt that Christians are perfect in Christ?
But Heb 10:14 says: "For by one offering He hath PERFECTED forever them that are sanctified".

Stop judging yourself and others according to outward appearance/behavior. That is not how righteousness is determined.
---Haz27 on 9/26/12


The thief on the cross was a classic example of what it means to be saved by God's grace 100%. His salvation is precisely what Paul wrote about God's sovereign election to salvation,

"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" Romans 9:11

Salvation of the sinner is UNCONDITIONAL. And doesn't God have the right to will that salvation came to the thief on the cross the way it did?

"What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth." Romans 9:14,18
---christan on 9/26/12


Mark V. You said: it's a "life long work" to get "sin" out of our lives?"

This contradicts scripture. It says we cannot sin.


there are no verses in holy scripture that state Believers do not sin. true deceived are ones lost in idolatry following after their false ministers who tell them they are perfect just like the Lord. They are so won over by these wicked ministers they are being taught they don't need the Lord!!! Paul still sinned and he described it as a war, yet he repented and overcame. Truth is those who overcome sin (a lifelong process just like Apostle Paul) will be with the Lord, those who think they are perfect are none of his.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/26/12


Mark V. You said: it's a "life long work" to get "sin" out of our lives?" And "the longer we are in Christ the more we see sin in our lives and repent of it"???

This contradicts scripture. It says we cannot sin.

It seems you're saying
the thief on the cross got fast-tracked in getting free from sin but the rest of us have to go through a risky life-long process of gradually getting it out of our lives.

BTW, repentance is referring to dead (self-righteous) works (Heb 6:1). This is a ONCE ONLY repentance (Heb 6:4-6). Once you have repented it's "impossible" to be "renewed unto repentance" if you fall away into sin (unbelief).



---Haz27 on 9/26/12


\\that's so elementary that i do not know why you guys argue for so long on this\\
---aka on 9/25/12

Seems that most here have flunked Theology Kindergarten
---James_L on 9/26/12


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The man who's born "dead in sin and trespasses" cannot response to the call of the Gospel unless God Almighty works His miraculously act of regeneration (born of the Holy Spirit) upon the sinner.

The "dead" man is not held responsible BUT accountable for his actions against God. For Acts 4:26-28 tells us that it was God who gathered the people mentioned to act out the wicked crucifixion of Christ (meaning it was predestined).

The following chapter in Acts 5:30, the apostle Peter accused the Jews, "The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree."

Therefore, God is Sovereign and mankind will be held accountable NOT responsible.
---christan on 9/26/12


Haz, we are sinners saved by the Grace of God through faith. Sinners Haz. Our nature remains with us till we die. The new creation in us is Christ. He does not sin. He works in our lives to change us to be more like Him. It is a life long work. As I said before, ask any athiest or even your neighbors if they think you are sinless and they will laugh at you. They know you, your wife knows you, they know you are not perfect. In fact the longer we are in Christ the more sin we see in our lives, and repent of it, when the Spirit of Christ convicts us we are wrong, are have walked where we were told not to walk. Or said what we shouldn't have said, or missed anyone we could have helped and didn't. You will know by the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 9/26/12


Hi aka: I assume you refer to Matt 12:36 "every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment."
But note verse37 for context. "by your words you will be justified..."
Note also Rom3:4 "That You may be justified in Your words..."

And how are we justified by our words?
Rom 10:9 "if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus..."

BUT, some are condemned by their words, judging righteousness by works of the law. They judge/accuse Christians of "SIN". This is unbelief, denying that Christ set us free/cleansed us from sin.

This is why some of us here argue for the importance of understanding that in Christ we cannot sin.
---Haz27 on 9/26/12


As you said, it's the 'new creation' that 'cannot sin'. And that is who we, as believers, are.
---Haz27 on 9/25/12

that's so elementary that i do not know why you guys argue for so long on this, but...

we are encased in this living-dead flesh and we are responsible even for every idle word that this dead-living flesh does. to man, some things...to God, everything after we "become christian".
---aka on 9/25/12


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\\The flesh returns to dust, the soul is justified and sanctified in his walk on earth and the spirit is the new creation.\\
---christan on 9/25/12

Christan, Your entire post was 100% correct. AMEN !!
---James_L on 9/25/12


Christan: You are correct. The physical is not perfect. And it is DEAD because of sin anyway. Rom 8:9, "If Christ be in you the body is DEAD because of sin".

So scriptures saying that we have 'ceased from sin' and 'cannot sin' are not speaking of our actual physical lifestyle.
Instead it speaks of Christ in us. Our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3. Our righteousness is imputed, by faith. Hence, in Christ, we 'cannot sin'.
"It's no longer I that lives, but Christ lives in me", Gal 2:20.
"He that is DEAD is FREED from sin", Rom 6:7

As you said, it's the 'new creation' that 'cannot sin'. And that is who we, as believers, are.
---Haz27 on 9/25/12


Hi Gordon. The "habitual" sin doctrine is not in scripture.

We 'Repent' when we turn to Christ. This was a ONCE ONLY repentance from 'Dead Works' Heb 6:1-6.

Dead works is righteousness by works of the law. This is sin. Once we repent of dead works, submitting to God's righteousness, then we have ceased from sin (1Pet 4:1) having righteousness by faith (Rom 4:5). In Christ we 'cannot sin', 1John 3:9

BTW, Christians are overcomers. "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that BELIEVETH that Jesus is the Son of God" 1John 5:5
We keep His commandments.
"this is his commandment, That we should BELIEVE on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another", 1John 3:23
---Haz27 on 9/25/12


Seems that some suggest that the man can stop sinning in the flesh when he/she becomes a Christian.

Is this seriously true? Well, if it was, then the man should not die at all since he can stop sinning. And that would then make the sacrifice of Christ's life at Calvary completely in vain and the Word of God untrue.

So it's plain and simple that when Peter and John wrote "ceased from sin" and "cannot sin", they were merely referring to the spirit of the man and not his flesh. And why? Because they were "born of the Holy Spirit".

The flesh returns to dust, the soul is justified and sanctified in his walk on earth and the spirit is the new creation.
---christan on 9/25/12


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While it is believed by many, the significance and power of the resurrection is foreign to many Christians. Paul explains that we would be still in our sins if Christ had died but did not resurrect. This crucial element of the gospel delivers what Christ performed by the cross.

Without resurrection we would not have past payment for sin, present deliverance from our sins, nor future hope of eternal life. Glory to God that he did more than die for you, he rose from the dead for you!
---michael_e on 9/25/12


James L hope this helps you out

//why is it that you only cite 1Cor 15:1-4, when Paul clearly had not completed his thought until verse 5?//
good news that the Savior was born

//Good news that He came to His own.
Good news that He was despised and rejected
Good news that He fulfilled scripture//
Pertaining to His own Israel.
Gentiles without hope

//Good news that He died
Good news that He rose//
Basis for salvation for JEW and GENTILE alike.

//Good news that the Holy Spirit was poured out.
Good news that we have liberty in Christ//
Without belief in Paul's gospel this would be void
---michael_e on 9/25/12


Mark V: You only ever use 1John 1:8, out of context, to support your view. Can you see your problem?

And what sins were dealt with through Christ? PAST sins only.
Rom 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST"

In Christ we've 'CEASED from sin', 1Pet 4:1, 'CANNOT sin', 1John 3:9.

Rom 6:2 asks: 'HOW shall we, that are DEAD to sin, live any longer therein?'

Rom 6:7'He that is DEAD is FREED from sin'

Rom 8:10'And if Christ be in you the body is DEAD because of sin"

Is Christ in you? If so then your freed from sin, ceased from sin, cannot sin, as scripture CLEARLY says.
---Haz27 on 9/25/12


Mark V: You only ever use 1John 1:8, out of context, to support your view. Can you see your problem?

And what sins were dealt with through Christ? PAST sins only.
Rom 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST"

In Christ we've 'CEASED from sin', 1Pet 4:1, 'CANNOT sin', 1John 3:9.

Rom 6:2 asks: 'HOW shall we, that are DEAD to sin, live any longer therein?'

Rom 6:7'He that is DEAD is FREED from sin'

Rom 8:10'And if Christ be in you the body is DEAD because of sin"

Is Christ in you? If so then your freed from sin, ceased from sin, cannot sin, as scripture CLEARLY says.
---Haz27 on 9/25/12


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It is imperative to overcome habitual sins. It is absolutely necessary to REPENT of any known sin in one's life and to "Go and sin no more" in that area. Because, GOD holds us accountable for what we know. We cannot ever think that it's "okay to sin" that GOD ever "winks" at any sin. We must have victory over the particular sin that has us bound or we are not in the Victory of overcoming. It is the Overcomers who are promised entry into the Kingdom of Heaven. REVELATION 21:7 and 22:14.
---Gordon on 9/25/12


"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17. And what's the "word of God"? The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Christian duty is to preach the Gospel. Who is saved from hearing the Gospel does not depend on the preacher or the man. As Jesus declared, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:29

That is, when the sinner believes, it's all down to "the work of God", confirmed by Paul, "for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" Romans 1:16

This completely debunks the doctrine of "free-will".
---christan on 9/25/12


Duane/Haz, you both can claim anything you want, it does not make it true. Concerning ( John 8:34) Jesus is talking about slaves to sin.
"I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin" and goes on to say,
"And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever"
If you are not a son, you are in bondage to sin, you do not abide in the house forever. Only those who are sons, who have been freed from the bondage of sin abide forever. I believe it is pretty simple. Again I say, if you say you have no sin, "The Truth is not in you" and it also says,"If you say that you have not sinned, you make Him a liar, "and His Word in not in you"
---Mark_V. on 9/25/12


\\IOW, you believe in autosoterism.\\
---Cluny on 9/24/12

Would you care to make an attempt to substantiate that bogus accusation?

After all, you already quoted Duane as saying that it is Christ who removes the sin.
---James_L on 9/24/12


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Cluny: Duane is correct in his claim.
And your reference to 1John 1:8 is out of context.

BTW, scripture shows that people who sin are 'servants of sin' (John 8:34) and are 'of the devil' (1John 3:8). Anyone who sins does not abide in Christ. They have not seen Him nor known Him (1John 3:6).

Are you really denying that Christ set believers free from sin as John 8:36, Rom 6:7, states?
---Haz27 on 9/24/12


\\The reason I CAN claim I am sinless is because of Christ.
Christ came to take away sin, not to just cover them.\\

Why did St. John write, "If we say, we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us"?

\\And yes, we must be without sin to be saved(have life).\\

IOW, you believe in autosoterism.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/24/12


The reason I CAN claim I am sinless is because of Christ.
Christ came to take away sin, not to just cover them.
And yes, we must be without sin to be saved(have life).
Im done with sin, I am freed from it. Thank u Jesus..There is real power in the Blood. Just believe it.
---duane on 9/24/12


markv, you explained that very clearly. the Holy Spirit within us is sinless but our flesh is sinful. there is always a war between the flesh and the spirit. sometimes the flesh wins then we have to ask for forgiveness. king david's flesh got in the way and he lost his fellowship with God for a season. he spent almost the whole book of psalms devoted to asking forgiveness. His spiritual side was convicting him to a great extent.
---shira4368 on 9/24/12


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michael e,
why is it that you only cite 1Cor 15:1-4, when Paul clearly had not completed his thought until verse 5?

You seem to think that "gospel" means:

"Formula of beliefs for one to claim that he has met all the requirements of entering heaven."

Gospel simply means GOOD NEWS. And there was PLENTY of good news going around then.

good news that the Savior was born

Good news that He came to His own.

Good news that He was despised and rejected

Good news that He fulfilled scripture

Good news that He died

Good news that He rose

Good news that the Holy Spirit was poured out.

Good news that we have liberty in Christ

Good news, good news !!!
---James_L on 9/24/12


Duane, you say,
"Do I understand you to be saying that only sinless humans are "saved"?"
You don't understand, no one said sinless people get saved. Only sinners like you and I get saved. You are deceived Daune, the Truth is not in you. The Bible says you are deceived. (1 John 1:8). There is no one sinless now, or ever has been other then Christ Jesus. We are called saints now, but we are not saints yet. Our bodies have to die, and we will be glorified one day at the resurrection with a sinless body. Until then you will continue to sin, and when you do sin, you have an Advocate in Jesus Christ. If you were sinless you could stand before God without Christ. Without Him you can do nothing.
---Mark_V. on 9/24/12


There is no other way to salvation but to be without sin but yet some still say they are saved but are yet sinners.
What nonsense.
---duane on 9/23/12

Do I understand you to be saying that only sinless humans are "saved"?
---Phil on 9/23/12


Mark V: You quote 1John 1:8 out of context.

But, scripture shows us that people who sin are 'servants of sin' (John 8:34) and are 'of the devil' (1John 3:8). Anyone who sins does not abide in Christ. They have not seen Him nor known Him (1John 3:6).

Are you really denying the gospel in that Christ set you free from sin as John 8:36, Rom 6:7, states?
---Haz27 on 9/23/12


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The truth would not be in you if you claim Christ did not free you from sin and take it away. you either believe or you dont. We are dead to sin, therefore alive.
We are perfect in the eyes of God without sin. There is no other way to salvation but to be without sin but yet some still say they are saved but are yet sinners.
What nonsense.
---duane on 9/23/12


You are still sinful, just ask any unbeliever. your family will find out also when your sinful body dies. It dies because of sin.
---Mark_V. on 9/20/12

Excellent! Mark_v

Always goin' for the jugular.

Maybe they already hazarded a guess.

My spouse seems to have caught on early, and my death would also relieve her of my sinful body.

Keep it comin'.
---Phil on 9/23/12


If you are saved from your sin it is because you heard the gospel Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that Jesus died for your sins and resurrected according to the scriptures.

this was not the gospel taught by the twelve during Jesus earthly ministry.

Matthew 10:5-6 Jesus sends out his disciples to avoid the Gentiles and preach to Israel only. verse seven is the message they were preaching to Israel only:

And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

This was the gospel of the kingdom (Mark 1:14-15).
---michael_e on 9/22/12


Duane, if you tell the world you are without sin, it would be all a lie. ( 1 John 1:8) says "if "we (believers)" say we have no sin, (that's what you are saying) "we deceive ourselves, (which means you are deceived) and the Truth is not in you" If the Truth was in you, you would admit your sin. Spiritually you have been forgiven, and sin will not condemn you. You have been bought with a price, Jesus sacrifice on the Cross. Spiritually we are saints and united with Christ in baptism. But physically we are still in the same old sinful nature which will die. That is why no sin enters heaven. When the resurrection comes, your sinful body which died will be changed and you will get a glorified body prepared for heaven.
---Mark_V. on 9/22/12


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Only God saves. A man cannot save himself. He cannot chose to be saved, because he is incapable of making that choice without the aid of God.

No one has "made a decision" for Christ, or "accepted" Him. It does not work that way.
1C 1:26 for see your calling, brethren, that not many are wise according to the flesh,
not many mighty,
not many noble
but the foolish things of the world
did God choose,
that the wise He may put to shame, and the weak things of the world
did God choose,
that He may put to shame the strong,
and the base things of the world, and the things despised
did God choose...
that no flesh may glory before Him.

It is based upon election, not free will.
---Phil on 9/22/12


1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

nothing can cause or bring forth salvation because it is a gift and reward promised at the last day for those who overcome sin. If people were sinless because they said the name of the Lord then Apostles preached contrary to God by telling Believers to grow and overcome. Salvation is a future gift of eternal life and rulership in Gods Kingdom on earth. all have sinned and fallen short, and no man will ever live a sinless life in the flesh except the Lord. It is by the power of Gods holy spirit working within a Believer who follows the Lord they can learn to overcome sin. anyone who claims they are sinless is a liar and without the Lord.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/22/12


Again...NO sin shall enter. Jesus came to take away sin. Its just a matter of believing in HIM and what HE did.
Christians have been made without sin,(born again) through the BLOOD of the LAMB. We are now the Saints of God. NOT sinners who are of Satan.
We must tell the world what Christ has done for us. HE has not left us being sinners. HE has set us free from sin. This is the real power of God....proclaim it to the world.
---duane on 9/21/12


Jim, don't feel sorry for me, feel happy for me, for I do admit I am a sinner who has been forgiven. If not for the grace and mercy of God, I would still be lost and unforgiven.
It does not matter if I am fat or skinny, tall or short, God still loves me. I do try to eat three times a day, but not too much. I thank God for what He provides for me and my family. You are still sinful, just ask any unbeliever. your family will find out also when your sinful body dies. It dies because of sin.
---Mark_V. on 9/20/12


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MarkV....I'm sorry that you label yourself as someone who is devoted to sin. According to your reasoning I guess you eat 2-3 times a day because you are a glutton.
---JIM on 9/19/12


Jim, you say, "what you are telling me",
First, I was not telling you anything. I was responding to James.
Second, you say,
"As for me i was considered a wicked person at one time, but now I am a child of God. Sure i can still sin, but i am by no means a sinner" If you sin, you are a sinner. Again, you are not a sinner because you sin, you sin because you are a sinner. You might be a child of God, but you still have a sinful nature. For no where in Scripture are we told we have two natures. We only have one nature. Only Jesus Christ had two natures. We are a new creation in Christ, but that is a Spiritual one. Nothing change in your physical, only that you have been made free from the bondage of sin.
---Mark_V. on 9/18/12


MarkV...so what your telling me is is that you are a wicked person who is devoted to sin. Well, if this is you, then you are a sinner.
As for me i was considered a wicked person at one time, but now I am a child of God. Sure i can still sin, but i am by no means a sinner (see greek definition strongs#268). Try looking at yourself as God sees you.
---JIM on 9/18/12


To the "elect" the word comes to them in power and in the Holy Spirit with much assurance. Only to those that the Spirit assures the Word to be true.

"Knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God, For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for you sake" (1 Thess. 1:5).

God has an elect, those He chose from the foundation of the world, they are born in sin like all others, but when it's time for them to believe, the word will come to them in power and in the Holy Spirit to assure them of what is written of the Truth, which is Christ. The beloved brothers are the genuine Christians.
---Mark_V. on 9/18/12


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James L, you are free to respond to me or not. It would have been better for you not to respond, because with your response you sin. Just more accusing, like others here. You talked about 'exegesis' we were not talking about biblical hermeneutics, you claimed there was faithless Christians going to heaven. Gave no passage whatsoever there is people without faith going to heaven with those who have faith. Where's your exegesis?
You said,
"Assertions aren't enough. Never have been, never will be. I refuse to beat my head against a brick wall anymore"
You don't have to beat your head against a brick wall, all you need is faith to believe in the works of Christ. You cannot be faithless and expect to go to heaven.
---Mark_V. on 9/17/12


As long as you continue to assert without any sort of exegesis, I leave you.

Assertions aren't enough. Never have been, never will be.

I refuse to beat my head against a brick wall anymore.
---James_L on 9/16/12


Welcome to the club, JamesL.
---CraigA on 9/17/12


Mark,

For you, yes. That's the best that I can do. I refuse to work and work, to display scripture after scripture,

Only to have yo refuse to post any scripures that plainly teach what you teach.

Just like your ascinine assertion that Predestination has anything to do with someone being chosen to go to heaven.

When scripture plainly teaches that it was to be conformed to the image of Christ.

As long as you continue to assert without any sort of exegesis, I leave you.

Assertions aren't enough. Never have been, never will be.

I refuse to beat my head against a brick wall anymore.
---James_L on 9/16/12


James L, is that the best you can do to accuse me again? You use to answer very well, what happen to you?
You don't have to get into another discussion with me, you would have to begin study before 2 A.M. as I do, I am sure you don't. So your accusation is false.
Elect from the foundation of the world. Chosen from the foundation of the world. Predestined from the foundation of the world. All the elect have been chosen from the foundation of the world, that is why they have been predestined. Pretty simple to me. "pre" means before, "destined" means their destination. The "elect" "the chosen" were predestined to salvation before the world begin. Why do you fight God's right to save whom He wills?
---Mark_V on 9/16/12


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\\only the elect who are chosen from the foundation of the world will believe.\\
---Mark_V. on 9/15/12

I'm not going to get into another "reporter vs. politician" style debate with you, because you simply refuse to give an answer to the age-old question:

Where does the bible SPECIFICALLY SAY what you are teaching? It simply doesn't.

You really need to study, Mark V.

Study what scripture means by ELECT, CHOSEN, and PREDESTINED.

It ain't what you teach. How does your saying go? Peace I leave you.

And I really mean I leave you on this, because you refuse to study.
---James_L on 9/16/12


Does the gospel cause or bring forth salvation in the sinner?
---trey on 9/5/12
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness,

obeying the gospel or acepting the gospel leads one to salvation. By accepting that Jesus died for our sins we are able to repent of all sin, and live from that moment not for sin, but rughteously
---francis on 9/15/12


James L, you said,

"Many who are not chosen, and are not elect, also receive it. For many are called, but few are chosen"

The call of the gospel goes out to everyone who hears it. It does not mean they were chosen or that they are of the elect. It only means the gospel is presented, to someone or a group of people. Out of those people, only the elect who are chosen from the foundation of the world will believe. Jesus warned the disciples to take the message of the gospel and warned them that only those who were worthy should hear it, if they were not worthy, to take their peace with them. (Matt. 10:515).
---Mark_V. on 9/15/12


JIM, didn't St. Paul call himself the chief of sinners? He didn't say, "I used to be," he said, "I AM chief."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/12/12


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Jim, you said to Cluny,

"You mean to tell me that you can tell someone you are a child of God or a saint and call yourself a sinner in the same sentence?"

I sure can Jim. In the sight of God I have been forgiven. After all He saved me. His Word is Truth. God's Word is Jesus Christ, and He is the Truth. I believe it. And I can tell others I sill sin, because if I lie to them, the Truth is not in me ( John 1:8). Only when you have the Truth can you admit you are a sinner who was saved by God's grace through faith.
If you tell an unbeliever you are sinless, he will know right away you are a liar.
---Mark_V. on 9/12/12


ROMANS 10:17 - So faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of GOD,
---RichardC on 9/7/12


\\cluny...i'm not saying i don't sin. There is a huge difference between being a sinner(someone devoted to sin) and comitting a sin.
---JIM on 9/7/12\\

Everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.

Therefore, JIM, if you commit sin (and you admit you do), you are a slave to sin--or devoted to it, in your words.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/7/12


cluny...i'm not saying i don't sin. There is a huge difference between being a sinner(someone devoted to sin) and comitting a sin.
---JIM on 9/7/12


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Cluny,

who said anything about the Hebrew text?
---James_L on 9/7/12


JamesL, how did a Greek word pop up in the Hebrew text of 2 Samuel?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/7/12


\\You mean to tell me that you can tell someone you are a child of God or a saint and call yourself a sinner in the same sentence?
---JIM on 9/7/12\\

JIM, if you say you have no sin, you deceive yourself, and the the Truth--Jesus--is NOT IN YOU!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/7/12


cluny**And which of us is NOT a sinner?**

You mean to tell me that you can tell someone you are a child of God or a saint and call yourself a sinner in the same sentence?
---JIM on 9/7/12


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\\I wonder who here knows the original meaning of EVANGELION\\
---Cluny on 9/6/12


2Samuel 4:10
Homer's Odyssey 14.152.166

Close enough ??
---James_L on 9/7/12


//I wonder who here knows the original meaning of EVANGELION, the Greek word most English Bibles render as "gospel"?//
Is this like the original meaning of "GAY"
---mlchael_e on 9/7/12


I wonder who here knows the original meaning of EVANGELION, the Greek word most English Bibles render as "gospel"?

Anybody?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/6/12


\\Those who are chosen and elect receive it.\\
---Phil on 9/6/12

Many who are not chosen, and are not elect, also receive it

For many are called, but few are chosen
---James_L on 9/6/12


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Ro 1:16 . for I am not ashamed of the good news of the Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to every one who is believing, both to Jew first, and to Greek.

1C 1:18 for the word of the cross to those indeed perishing is foolishness, and to us--those being saved--it is the power of God,

1Pt 1:5 who, in the power of God are being guarded, through faith, unto salvation, ready to be revealed in the last time.

There is power, dunamis, inherent in the Gospel that Paul preached. Those who are chosen and elect receive it.
---Phil on 9/6/12


God "good news" aka gospel, is the testimony of what God has done to reach all of mankind for Christ.
But, it is the work of the Holy Spirit which brings the sinner to Christ for salvation.
---chip on 9/6/12


You've got your prepositions wrong, bud.

The Gospel brings salvation TO the sinner. And which of us is NOT a sinner?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/5/12


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