ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Born Again Muslim

Can you be a born-again Muslim?

Moderator - Of course not.

Join Our Christian Singles and Take The Salvation Bible Quiz
 ---Jed on 9/5/12
     Helpful Blog Vote (4)

Post a New Blog



trey,

you sure seem to be in agreement wih a lot of diametrically opposed viewpoints.

Calvinist, Arminian, Seventh Day Adventist, Orthodox, one who rejects Paul's writings, and probably Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck, too.

those who promote abortion, false gospels, all-out attacks on scripture, and twist scripture,

GOOD GRIEF, man.
---James_L on 9/27/12


James_L
The Spirit of Christ was in the prophecies, not the prophets.
The Spirit of God is in both, in the man and in the word!

But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak:
for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward, and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

Peace
---TheSeg on 9/27/12


Trey, thank you brother. It almost as if the Holy Spirit was nowhere until Pentecost. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a sin not forgiven. The Pharisees could not deny the reality of what the Holy Spirit had done through Christ, so they attributed to Satan a work that they knew was of God (Matt. 12:24: Mark 3:22). Those who know His claims are true and reject Him anyway sin against the Holy Spirit because it is the Holy Spirit who testifies of Christ and makes His Truth known to us (John 15:26: 16:14,15). The Spirit made the coming Christ known to all Old Testament saints. Unbelievers do not work for Christ because, "There is none who seeks after God" (Rom. 3:11) Why? because "There is none who understands"
---Mark_V. on 9/27/12


Michael_e, let me ask you, Do you believe Paul's gospel was totally independent of "any" Covenants whatsoever? And you honestly believe that After Jesus rose from the dead and walked with His Disciples and over 500, He told them to preach the earthly kingdom reign, JESUS KNOWING He would not be there to take any Earthly throne DEMANDING that Egypt come to Jerusalem every year to worship the KING and keep the feasts of tabernacles or else they would have no rain. The End of Zech 14 is what the Kingdom Reign will be like....LAW! AND STIFF PENALTY FOR DISOBEDIENCE!

I honestly do not see ONE WORD of Kingdom Teaching in Acts Michael_e. Faith/belief will not be necessary during His kingdom reign, because HE WILL BE HERE!
---kathr4453 on 9/27/12


Mark V, I would just like to say that I am in full agreement. Most people do not understand that:

Heb13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Also see: Mal 3:6

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit do not change!

John15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

The old testament saints could not write holy writ without Christ working in them.

Our God declared the end from the beginning! He knew before time that man would sin and he (God) would send his Son to save us through his shed blood, and it was all by his grace! It is by grace we are born again.
---trey on 9/26/12




//Matthew is Kingdom LAW written to Israel, also tells about the Tribulation that is to come etc.

John again is about GRACE...//

Like Matthew, Mark, and Luke, John can cause a lot of confusion if not considered in its dispensational context.
Rather than teaching the gospel first manifest to Paul, John focuses on the divine authority and deity of Jesus as a minister of the circumcision.
---michael_e on 9/26/12


\\James L, you quickley turned the Truth into a lie. You say,
"The Spirit of Christ was in the prophecies, not the prophets."\\
---Mark_V. on 9/26/12


As long as you're convinced, that's all you need.

thanks
---James_L on 9/26/12


// Jesus did not say Mt 15:24 immediately after John 3:3//
He must have changed his mind between these two scriptures.
---michael_e on 9/25/12

Who said anything about changing His mind.

Matthew is Kingdom LAW written to Israel, also tells about the Tribulation that is to come etc.

John again is about GRACE...

Kingdom Law and GRACE are not teh same. no one will have to poke out an eye or cut off any hands to enter in , that is through the veil, that is to say His Flesh.

However Kingdom LAW, will be just that, RULED with a rod of Iron! However even that future event is based upon His death and resurrection...if you believe Zechariah 12-14.
---kathr4453 on 9/26/12


James L, you quickley turned the Truth into a lie. You say,
"The Spirit of Christ was in the prophecies, not the prophets."

The Spirit of Christ was in the prophets who brought the word of God. Concerning Old T. Peter declared that "men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God" (2 Peter 1:21). The agents were men, the source was God, and the single author moving the human instruments was the Holy Spirit. Second, Peter 1:21 also makes a second important statement. Not only were the writers borne by the Spirit, they were not borne along by their wills. Thus declaring that man's will (including his will to make mistakes) did not bring us the Scriptures, rather, the Holy Spirit, who cannot err, did.
---Mark_V. on 9/26/12


"the Spirit of Christ who was in them"
---Mark_V. on 9/26/12


The Spirit of Christ was in the prophecies, not the prophets.

Read the whole passage
---James_L on 9/26/12




\\So which is it - right or lost?

Mat 5:17,18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets...\\
---jerry6593 on 9/23/12


You were right about the passage describing "born again"

Lost thinking that it happened during the Old Covenant era, when the Glory of God resided in tents and temples

WE are now the temple of the Holy Spirit

And I never said hat Jesus came to destroy the Law or teh temple. Why do you throw that around as if I've said that?

The Law still convicts sinners
---James_L on 9/26/12


James L, says to Kathr,
"Many misunderstand the Old and New Testaments because they confuse "heaven" and "inheritance"
I believe you both are confuse, because you know not what the Spirit teaches.
You suggest that Old T. Saints didn't have the Spirit. That is shear nonsense. The Holy Spirit wasn't asleep doing nothing, His been working from the beginning of Creation. Here is one passage,
"Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, "the Spirit of Christ who was in them" was indicating when He testified beforehand the suffering of Christ and the glories that would follow." (1 Peter 1:10,11).
---Mark_V. on 9/26/12


// Jesus did not say Mt 15:24 immediately after John 3:3//
He must have changed his mind between these two scriptures.
---michael_e on 9/25/12


Jn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Ye, or you, is in the plural Greek form, like a coach addressing a team.

Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Phil on 9/23/12


Sorry Phil, but Jesus did not say Mt 15:24 immediately after John 3:3

What Jesus said after John 3:3 was JOHN 3:16, WHOSOEVER.

The Gospel of John is the Gpspel of GRACE. (He came full of GRACE and TRUTH should have tipped you off.)

GRACE is not mentioned until JOHN, because THIS GOSPEL is not LAW, but GRACE.

Matthew= Kingdom LAW
John= GRACE!
---kathr4453 on 9/24/12


He did not specify a Jew. He plainly said, "man." ---Trish on 9/22/12

A short lesson in grammatics, trish.

A coach to the team:
"You go out there and win"
You is plural

Nicodemus was a Jewish leader.
Jn 3:2 The same (man) came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know...

Jn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Ye, or you, is in the plural Greek form, like a coach addressing a team.

Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Phil on 9/23/12


James L: "You're right. ... You're lost with this one, Jerry."

So which is it - right or lost?

Didn't you know that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament as well as the New? Haven't you read Jesus own words where He said:

Mat 5:17,18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law


---jerry6593 on 9/23/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Lasik Surgery


So who then was a MASTER of the Gentiles? And we know scripture states " Salvation is OF the Jews...not to confused that verse to say Salvation is FOR the Jews.


John 4:22
Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Paul reiterates:

Ephesians 2:20
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone,
---kathr4453 on 9/23/12


//He plainly said, "man." //
He also plainly said
Jn. 3:10 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of ISRAEL, and knowest not these things?

who do you think he was talking about?
And why should a master of Israel know these things?
When did your Apostle tell you, you must be born again?
---michael_e on 9/22/12


michael: When Jesus is quoted in John 3:16, He says "unless a man be born again..." He did not specify a Jew. He plainly said, "man."

Paul's ministry was to the Gentiles specifically.
---Trish on 9/22/12


//Paul gives detailed description of our BORN AGAIN experience and HOW that existance came to be.//

Do you have any scripture where Jesus,or Paul tell you as a gentile "you must be "born again"
---michael_e on 9/22/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Bullion


\\Eze 36:26,27 A new heart...

Sounds like "born again" to me!\\
---jerry6593 on 9/22/12

You're right. And that was a prophecy that began to be fulfilled when Jesus breathed in His disciples, and even further when the Holy Spirit blew into an upper room like a mighty wind 7 weeks after Jesus' crucifixion, and continues today.


Kathr is spot-on with this issue.

You're lost with this one, Jerry. The Old Covenant, administered by works, was set aside and a new one was inaugurated by His blood, administered by the Holy Spirit.

As long as you are trying to serve the ministry of death, you are rejecting the Holy Spirit.
---James_L on 9/22/12


I was a muslim before,I know what Islam is.
Islam is the total submission to the will of God .whosoever is submitted to the will of God is a Muslim.But those who claim to be muslims are not. They are very few who are muslims no matter what.To be born again is to be transform spiritually. I wish if people can know the real meaning of being born again. What we know is not the final,God has never ceased to reveil his secrets to his people. We all need to learn.
---MPENDAKAZI on 9/22/12


God never promised to re-birth your old man. Crucified means DEAD. Paul gives detailed description of our BORN AGAIN experience and HOW that existance came to be.
Life comes out of death. Our NEW LIFE now raised up with Christ IS that very experience of being Born AGAIN...."In Christ".

First being CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST.

The Jews preached this SAME DOCTRINE of being crucified With Chtist.

Hebrews 6:6
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
---kathr4453 on 9/22/12


Katr: "Would someone show us in the OT where BORN AGAIN is stated."

Eze 36:26,27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them

Sounds like "born again" to me!


---jerry6593 on 9/22/12


Send a Free Thank You Ecard


//He says OT Israel was BORN AGAIN meaning "the nation" was born again//
Twist your own words not mine
He didn't say Israel was born again.
He said "When do you suppose Israel was physically born as a nation?"
Which apparently you can't answer.

//
Amazing. Your saying tne New Covenant promising the Spirit was in effect before Jesus rose from the dead.//

He didn't say the NT was jn effect before Jesus died.
He said.
Incidentally Jesus speaking to in Jn 3 IS OT. (not NT) ref Heb 9:16 Jesus hadn't died yet.
Do you have any scripture where Jesus,or Paul tell you as a gentile "you must be "born again"
Try reading before you write
---michael_e on 9/21/12


Good points James L

Now what michael just said is totally confusing, He says OT Israel was BORN AGAIN meaning "the nation" was born again. WOW, the Nation was Born Again of the Spirit, the whole Nation?

Can anyone provide any scripture to back up that very moment when the Nation of OT Israel was Born Again of the Spirit? Even disobedient evil false prophet Jews too? WOW.

Amazing. Your saying tne New Covenant promising the Spirit was in effect before Jesus rose from the dead.

Why did Jesus say in John, I must FIRST go to My Father and THEN I will send the Holy Spirit who will be IN YOU.

So they waited, and on the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit came and now they're Born Again AGAIN?
---kathr4453 on 9/21/12


//Would someone show us in the OT where BORN AGAIN is stated.//

When do you suppose Israel was physically born as a nation?

Incidentally Jesus speaking to in Jn 3 is OT. ref Heb 9:16 Jesus hadn't died yet.
---michael_e on 9/21/12


Are false doctrines so bad out there that this kind of question even has to be asked? WOW. Well, if you're a true Muslim, you don't believe that God (Allah) has a son. Almighty GOD has a Son (YAHUSHUA/JESUS), and He is the only way to be Born-Again from Above. JOHN 3:3 and JOHN 14:6
---Gordon on 9/21/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Menopause


Good points, Kathr.

Many misunderstand the Old and New Testaments because they confuse "heaven" and "inheritance"

In the OT, the just (by faith) lived by the Law. Rewarded with an earthly inheritance and blessings.

In the NT, the just (by faith) shall live by faith. Our inheritance and blessings are not of this world. We have a better, eternal covenant with eternal rewards and inheritance, by faith.

When people think the inheritance means getting to go to heaven, it gets warped.

And the word SALVATION in the NT mostly refers to our inheritance, not going to heaven. That's partly where michael_e errs, I believe, seeing two "gospels" because he confuses blessing with heaven.
---James_L on 9/21/12


Would someone show us in the OT where BORN AGAIN is stated.

The Promise of the SPIRIT was promised when the New Covenant ame in. The New Covenant came into effect when Jesus rose from the dead.


Paul teaches this very truth in 2 Corinthians 3 and QUOTES OT prophecy concerning the Spirit. Paul is telling this to GENTILES.

Why would Paul quote Jeremiah concerning teh Spirit and promise of that spirit to Gentiles in the first place?

micheal_e is still wet behind the ears!


How many Spirits are there?
---kathr4453 on 9/21/12


//Can you be a born-again Muslim?//
No more than you can be a born again baptist etc.

"Born again" was addressed to a ruler of Israel, whom Jesus said should have known. The only way he could have known was to have known his ot.He sure couldn't have gotten anything from Paul's writings, as Paul wasn't on the scene and never mentions it anyway. Go back to the ot written primarily to Israel as a nation,it is very plain.
---michael_e on 9/21/12


Exactly MarkV, you said it better than I.

Good Job!
---kathr4453 on 9/21/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Penpals


Kathr is just another Eloy. Those two could seriously benefit from some medication.
---Jed on 9/21/12


michael e, those from the nation of Israel who believed in Christ by faith that Jesus ministered to, and those who believed in Christ that Paul ministered to, make up the Church of Christ, "the Called out" the body of Christ. The word regeneration in (Matt 19:28) the term here does not carry its normal theological meaning of personal regeneration (Titus 33:5) Instead Jesus was speaking of the "times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began (Acts 3:21). This is in reference to the earthly kingdom described in (Rev. 20:1-15) when believers will seat on thrones with Christ (Rev. 3:21) governing (1 Cor. 6:2,3).
---Mark_V. on 9/21/12


JamesL another Chapter they fail to rightly divide is John 6. To eat my flesh and drink my blood was NOT Kingdom teaching. No where in Kingdom teaching was one told to eat the Kings Flesh and drink His Blood. That Jesus was referring to , meaning, "I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST".

If these false teachers would look in the beginning of John 6, they would SEE the people WANTED to make Jesus KING right then. Jesus left and went to the other side FOR FEAR they would.

Then He tells these same followers who wanted the KINGDOM right then, that to REALLY follow Him was to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood. THEY MURMERED and walked away...

Jesus compared THEM to Judas.
---kathr4453 on 9/21/12


Michael e, 2: ( 2 Tim. 2:15) is a very good one. I should have used it more myself, the two surrounding passages are also very important for the believer who discusses God's Word. Many here throw stones, rocks, or accuse you, when they don't like you for some reason. It's unavoidable. In their hearts they say, "How dare you question something they say"
But,
2 Tim. 2:14) "Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers" And (v. 16)
"But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness"
I do not agree with some things you say, but your entitle to believe and speak what you want.
---Mark_V. on 9/21/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Accounting


Kathr, there probably isn't one person on here that you haven't insulted with your know it all attitude. Study 2tim 2:15. law and grace do not mix. oil and water do not mix. prophecy and mystery do not mix. study
---michael_e on 9/20/12


\\And Jesus said unto them,(the 12)...ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones...

...you know nothing of 2Tim. 2:15...\\
---michael_e on 9/20/12


In your selective scripture plucking of 2Tim 2:15, have you neve considered backing up a few verses?

Verse 12 - If "WE" endure, we will reign with him.


Paul also taught in Romans 8:17-21

17 We are joint-heirs "IF" we suffer with Him

19 The whole creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God

21 the glory of the children of God

Same as Jesus taught

Matt 19:28
That ye which have followed me (by suffering - 1Peter 2:21), in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory...
---James_L on 9/20/12


No! To believe that would be to enter the wide gate. And is by itself an oxymoron.
Please read Job 13:7-12, 1Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 6:7 / Isaiah 42:8, 48:11, Daniel 3:16-18, Matthew 6:24, 7:13-14, Luke 4:8.
---Glenn on 9/20/12


michael_e, I find your last post insulting. It has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

There are several views concerning that verse in Matthew. To be so arrogant as to suggest one has not studied or is not saved because they fail to believe in your HYPER-DISPENSATIONALISM false doctrine that came into effect in the 1800 by Bullinger, is so infantile it's not funny.

People please read about the false teaching michael_e is promoting here called HYPER- Dispensationalism. It's a crock! AND it's a Cult.

One has to be Born Again of the Spirit to even understand Spiritual things. 1Corinthians 2. You claim you are "not" Born Again, so that is YOUR problem, not mine! .
---kathr4453 on 9/20/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Fundraisers


Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them,(the 12) Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Where are you in this passage?
Kathr, you have one or two problems, either you know nothing of 2Tim. 2:15 or 2Cor 4:3 applies to you.
---michael_e on 9/20/12


michael_e, how exactly does one FOLLOW Jesus in the regeneration? Was Jesus regenerated?

According to John's revelation, the CHURCH will sit with Christ in HIS Throne at that time. Rev 3.

Were these "Churches" in Revelation not the Church or BOC? These very churches we see Paul established too. One was Ephesis correct?

Yet you say even John preached the earthly kingdom reign? Yet what I see is John preached that WE the BOC will be the ones who reign and rule with Christ, as Joint Heirs. Paul also preached this as well.

So is Paul going to be divided into two entirely different Churches too?
---kathr4453 on 9/19/12


So, who was in charge of the gospel to the Samaritan?

should there have been a third gospel?
---James_L on 9/19/12


Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them,(the 12) Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

What about Paul?
Paul clearly says that he is the apostle to the Gentiles. But just as people think that they know better what Christ meant than Christ Himself, they also seem to think that Paul did not mean what he said either.
HMM
---michael_e on 9/18/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Ecommerce


michael e,

THE gospel...To the JEW FIRST, then the GREEK. Why does Paul say this as if there is one gospel that goes to all?

If you were correct, the incident between Paul and Peter should have gone a totally different direction:

Paul: "Peter, why are you preaching to Gentiles? You were sent only to Jews."

Peter: "Hey, man. You were only sent to Gentiles, but you've been arguing with Jews in the synagogues every Saturday."

Paul: "Hey. Shut up and stay away from My Gentiles."

Peter: "You shut up and stay away from My Jews."

Paul: "I'm not kidding, Peter. You'd better say away from Gentiles."

Peter: "Shut up, Paul."

Hmmm.
---James_L on 9/18/12


Amazing, how many people think the nation of Israel, that Jesus ministered to in his earthly ministry,carried on by the 12 apostles to Israel, and the church, the BoC, revealed to Paul are one and the same.
---michael_e on 9/18/12


Brother Trey, blessings to you for explaining the topic very well. No one knows where or to whom the Spirit will go to, it is like the wind, no one knows from where it comes or where it is going, it is a sovereign act of God. The Word of God has to come to the individual in power and full assurance by the Holy Spirit that what they are reading is the Truth of Christ, for the Spirit testifies of Christ, as Christ testifies of the Father. (1 Thess. 1:4,5). Many others hear the word of the gospel and reject it, because it did not come to them in power and in the Holy Spirit. Those worthy to hear it, have been drawn by God to His Word.
---Mark_V. on 9/18/12


Michael E, I don't know how I could expand on what Jesus already said in John 3. He said it quite simply and accurately. Nothing left to be explained.
---Jed on 9/17/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Jewelry


michael_e, would you please explain what Jesus was teaching in John chapter 3 concerning the new birth or being born again?

My belief is that Christ was teaching that the new birth is an act of the Holy Spirit.

In opposition to what many believe, the wind bloweth where it listeth. In other words, God acts sovereignly and independently of the will of man.

To continue the above mentioned thought, no man would come to God if he were not drawn by the Spirit of God. To understand what I mean by this study the word "drawn". Herbrew word:
"mashak" in Jer 31:3. It is in the new birth that we are drawn unto God by the Holy Spirit.
---trey on 9/17/12


Michael: Jesus explained it pretty well. When our mothers gave birth to us, that was our physical birth. However, Jesus said, that God requires a Spiritual birth in order to have a relationship with Him for eternity.

Reread John 3:16-17, and pray for God's Holy Spirit to reveal that solid Truth to you. Do you know Jesus as your Savior? Read John 3:16 aloud, inserting your name where it says "world."

Do you believe that if you were the only person on earth, God would have sent His Son to die on the cross for your sins? I do.
---Trish on 9/17/12


// I suggest reading John 3 to find the answer.
---Jed on 9/17/12//
I have read it, do you have to be a master of Israel to explain it, or would you like top give it a try?
---michael_e on 9/17/12


How can any body be "born again"
I've yet to see anyone on here who says they are "born again" explain what born again means
---michael_e on 9/17/12


There was a man in the bible named Nicodemus who asked the very same question. I suggest reading John 3 to find the answer.
---Jed on 9/17/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Furniture


//Can you be a born-again Muslim?//

How can any body be "born again"
I've yet to see anyone on here who says they are "born again" explain what born again means
---michael_e on 9/17/12


Phil, I am a Born Again Jew, who is not JEALOUS of the Law.

Where did you get that, in Romans 10? referring "to unbelieving Jews"? I see no verse next to that little extra info there.

And exactly where is being Zealous for the LAW taught in Hebrews. The whole book is about FAITH and Grace.

So I know for a fact that Born Again Jews who are saved by Grace through Faith are not JEALOUS of the LAW, but ZEALOUS of the CROSS.

We don't make void the Grace of God by trying to keep law too. because it is IMPOSSIBLE.

I really don't know where you got that, it's beyond me really. Phil, some false teacher lied to you.

Maybe you are too old for drama, but hopefully you are not too old for the truth.
---kathr4453 on 9/17/12


Kathr, I am too old and tired for the drama.

"And when they (the Lord's apostles) heard (Paul's evangel), they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe," Ac 21:20

Thousands of believers... Jewish disciples of the Lord... followers of the Twelve... post-Pentecostal.

Now, catch this:
"and they are all zealous of the law:"

The Lord never rescinded law-keeping for His people, even if they believed.

No Gentile is commanded to keep the law. Israel, with all its advantages could not.

While there are commonalities, the message is not the same.
---Phil on 9/16/12


If it was the same, why the secrecy kathr? Phil///

Phil, why didn't you finish the verse...it answered WHY...however it was not in SECRECY. Secrecy is one thing like the Mormons or Masons do in secrecy, but privately is quite another.

I may use the ladies room in PRIVATE yet there is nothing secret about my activities.

Paul in Ephesians rebukes those who do things in SECRECY.

Ephesians 5:12
For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

That which God kept secret is now revealed....CHRIST IN YOU is no secret to those Born Again, both Jew and Gentile, making ONE NEW MAN in Christ called the Church.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Laptops



---Phil on 9/15/12

Exactly phil, and that is what QUALIFIED Paul to be an Apostle. Just as all the other APOSTLES were taught directly by Christ.

So lets make sure we are not promoting a Joseph Smith here, Paul was TAUGHT the EXACT Gospel the original 12 were taught.

OR are you suggesting YOU are still in Bondage to Hagar, born still in the flesh and in BONDAGE as we speak?

You admit YOU are Phil. I won't argue with that. If you are still in the flesh, you are still IN SIN! Galatians! Romans! Colossians! Philippians! 1st John says we are BORN OF GOD...who is WE here, the Christian Jews only? And you admit to persecuting Born Again Jews? Paul states YOU do if you are sill born after the flesh!
---kathr4453 on 9/16/12


Galatians 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

It was not the gospel that was provate, it was the meeting.

Seeing that the other apostles had walked with Jesus, Paul spoke to them priately to see that they were all preaching the very same thing.

Turns out that there is only ONE GOSPEL and they all taught the exact same gospel
---francis on 9/16/12


Phil, the very same Gospel Peter preached to Cornelius a gentile was that exact Gospel Peter preached to the Jews. God had to teach Peter a lesson first that Gentiles ALSO TOO ETC were given the Holy Spirit as was Jews. Cornelius's receiving of the Spirit was his being Born of the Spirit.

And you will see Paul FIRST went to the Jews as well, ( immediately after he was saved he went and preached in the temple TO JEWS ) but had difficulty there and then stated I will go to the Gentiles...which was God's plan all along. Aren't you aware too that in the Churches Paul founded there were both Jew and Gentiles.

Read Acts more thoroughly ..it's all there.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/12


John 3:6
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:8
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Galatians 4:29
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.


Paul absolutely preached one must be Born of the spirit AKA Born Again.
---kathr4453 on 9/16/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Lawyer


Peter preached the same Gospel to the Jews that Paul was commissioned to preach to the Gentiles.---kathr4453 on 9/15/12

Ga 2:2 and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately...

If it was the same, why the secrecy kathr?

Ga 1:11 ..that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

The Lord was is a man, and Paul did not receive His commission or message from any man.

He received it from God through Christ out of heaven.

Big, big difference.
---Phil on 9/15/12


(2 Pet 3:15,16) Peter knew the difference between the gospel of the circumcision committed to him and the gospel of the Uncircumcision committed to Paul (Gal. 2).
---michael_e on 9/9/12


michael_e, that analogy in no way suggests there are two different Gospels, one for Jews and one for Gentiles in this age of GRACE.

Peter preached the same Gospel to the Jews that Paul was commissioned to preach to the Gentiles.

Romans 6-8 EXPLAIN IN DETAIL our Born Again Experience. Paul, John James, Peter all preached Christ Crucufied and Risen.

To be raised up a NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST is our Born Again Life In Christ. born of the spirit of the life of Christ in us
---kathr4453 on 9/15/12


//Galatians shows Paul's well-message was different from Twelve apostles. If it was the same, there would have been no need for such discretion.// Absolutely correct

it is in the Pauline epistles alone that you find the doctrine, duty and destiny of the church the body of Christ.


Peter understood that the nation of Israel was being set aside. He understood that the Body of Christ was not spiritual Israel but Gods agency through which he would work during the present dispensation of grace (Eph. 3). He understood that Paul was writing inspired scripture. (2 Pet 3:15,16) Peter knew the difference between the gospel of the circumcision committed to him and the gospel of the Uncircumcision committed to Paul (Gal. 2).
---michael_e on 9/9/12


Scott 1, you are so right. It was the same gospel, and has been the same gospel from the very begining at (Gen. 3:15) In the mist of the curse passage, a message of hope shone forth-the womans offspring called (He) is Christ our Savior would come and bruise Satan's head (destroy him with a fatal blow). Paul, in a passage strongly reminiscent of Gen. 3 encouraged the believers in Rome,
"And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly (Rom. 16:20) Believers should recognize that they participate in the crushing of Satan because along with their Savior and because of His finished work on the cross, they also are of the woman's Seed.
---Mark_V. on 9/9/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Dedicated Hosting


Galatians shows Paul's well-message was different from Twelve apostles.
---Phil

No Galatians shows that they were in agreement.
Gal 1:12 "based on Jesus" and Gal 1: 18-20. The 15 days were fact checking to make sure Paul and Peter agreed.
---Scott1 on 9/7/12


John Ch 3 is a very unique instance because you had a teacher of the Law drop his pride in fullfilling the Law for salvation purposes comes and questions Jesus about the things Jesus has done. The language used by Jesus in this dramatic instance was to tell Nicodemus that like you no affect on your physical birth you have no way to earn your spiritual rebirth. Thus your obeying the Law was "wise" it does not save. This is the same message Paul preached and the rest of the apostles.
---Scott1 on 9/7/12


chip on 9/6/12
Trish on 9/6/12

Galatians shows Paul's well-message was different from Twelve apostles. If it was the same, there would have been no need for such discretion.

Paul never knew the Lord. His acquaintance with God's Christ was in person, after He ascended to Heaven.

Unlike the Lord's disciples, his message and doctrine came from the Glorified Christ.

It is God's latest and fullest revelation of salvation.

We must heed Paul's message to the nations as pivotal. It is of grace, not works of the flesh.
---Phil on 9/7/12


Born Again? Mentioned twice, once by Jesus(john 3)as he tells the "Jewish" leader, he should know.
John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Why should a "master of Israel" know this? Israel had been born physically in Egypt. their king and messiah was here, they needed to be born again spiritually. Peter an apostle to israel also mentions it
---mlchael_e on 9/7/12


Read These Insightful Articles About Online Marketing


So, Phil, explain yourself. I have never heard this line of reasoning before.....
---chip on 9/6/12

if you step back and read the bible, you will see it. the piece meal fashion of today's preaching are feeding us food with no nutrition.

we are getting fatter and the preachers are getting richer on maraschino cherry - picked sermons.

//Or, do we just chuck that all, and only rely on Paul as our source for New Testament truth?// ---Trish on 9/6/12

we are called to believe. we are not to insert ourselves where we do not belong.
---aka on 9/6/12


John 10:9 - Iam the door, By me if any man enter , He shall be saved, and go in and out and fine pasture.

Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord , One Faith, One Baptism.
---RICHARDC on 9/6/12


There are two types of people in the world - one, those who are christians and, two, those who are not. One must be born of the spirit in order to follow Christ and understand the Words of God, in other words, being born again simply means after the first birth, the birth of the physical self, one must be born again, the birth of the spiritual self. There is no other way to heaven.
---Steveng on 9/6/12


Phil: Please explain why Jesus himself mentioned being born again.

John 3:3,7

As well as Peter's mention of it.

1 Peter 1:23

Or, do we just chuck that all, and only rely on Paul as our source for New Testament truth?
---Trish on 9/6/12


Read These Insightful Articles About VoIP Service


So, Phil, explain yourself. I have never heard this line of reasoning before.....
---chip on 9/6/12


The born-again experience is not available outside the Hebrew faith. It pertains to the Kingdom preaching of the Lord and John.

No one was regenerated, or, born-again, during the Lord's ministry on earth.


It is based upon the Prophets and the promises of God to Israel.

Ezek 36:22
Jer 31:31

It will happen at His return as King and Judge, when all Israel will be saved.

Paul, Gods' apostle to the Gentiles, never mentions nor requires being "born-again".

We are justified and glorified by grace through faith.

We are not regenerated, we are totally new creations in Christ.
---Phil on 9/6/12


Many sects, Christian and non-christian, have unbelievers in their midst.

Being a practicing muslim precludes belief in the words of Jesus Christ.

2C 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing], and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
---Phil on 9/6/12


Copyright© 1996-2015 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.