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What Not To Abort Babies

If we truly have choices then why do religious institutions and it's people attempt to impose their will on to others? Example abortion, if we have a free will why can't we make our own decision, why do the righteous need to make laws?

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 ---Anita on 9/7/12
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God did order the elimination of nations for the purpose of saving Israel, His chosen nation.

Perfect, Francis, Mark summerized 1 Samual 15:3, adding Numbers 5:11-31 as a support? Interesting, because God did not authorize baby killing in Numbers, leaving that aside just for this exercise, where exactly within your verses from Numbers does it explain how God condones, accepts and approves of the baby-killing-mills today, where a women can legally kill her baby because she just doesn't feel like being pregnant, or pregnancy doesn't fit into her schedule etc. And the manner of barbaric inhumane killing where is that? Slow saline burning, vacuuming the baby out of the womb, crushing its head to suck out brain matter?
---Follow_or_Christ on 9/16/12


Not to my knowledge, Francis.
---NurseRobert on 9/16/12
good
---francis on 9/16/12


Not to my knowledge, Francis.
---NurseRobert on 9/16/12


---NurseRobert on 9/15/12
Have you ever worked in a hospital that performed abortion?
---francis on 9/16/12


Did anyone read in Samuel where God told born of the Spirit Christians to kill unborn babies? Did God order for unborn babies to have their brains sucked out with a vacumm while still in the womb? If He did, I must have missed it. God did order the elimination of nations for the purpose of saving Israel, His chosen nation. But I read nowhere that He ordered born again Christians to kill babies while still in the womb.
---Mark_V on 9/16/12




Because its not YOUR freewill anymore. Your body is now housing two souls, you and your child and we do not have the right to end the life of anyone.
---REnee on 9/15/12


No, Francis, I have never worked in an SDA hospital.. and I work in a LTC facility now.
---NurseRobert on 9/15/12


---Follower_of_Christ on 9/15/12
see Numbers 5:11-31 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled,

Te only person in that context who dies, is the inocent baby who was conceived by adultery
---francis on 9/15/12


No where in Scripture does God permit man to murder an unborn human being.
---Mark_V. on 9/15/12

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek


1 Samuel 15:3 does not answer Mark's statement because God is not permitting murdering babies (breaking the command to not kill) at will for ones own personal purpose

purpose of God having Israel destroy gentile nation of Amalekites was their continued pursuit of seeking the land God had given to Israel. You malign Gods purpose making a suggestion God permits baby killing today!!! interesting distortion!! comparing apples (Amalekites and land) and oranges (women personally choosing to murder their babies in the womb) to a whole new outlandish level.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/15/12


francis, for your information, God's rights over see the rights of man. No where in Scripture does God permit man to murder an unborn human being.
---Mark_V. on 9/15/12

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

even pregnant women

also see Numbers 5:29 This [is] the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside [to another] instead of her husband, and is defiled,
---francis on 9/15/12




the question you should ask Nurse Roberts is have you ever, or do you now work for a hospital that performs abortion, or gives out the morning after pill.
---francis on 9/15/12


Nurse Robert: "Jerry, you've asked the question 3 times now (the answer is no)."

Thank you for finally answering. That's how adults do it. Sorry that you find my asking questions to be obnoxious.


---jerry6593 on 9/15/12


francis, for your information, God's rights over see the rights of man. No where in Scripture does God permit man to murder an unborn human being. No matter how many laws man passes. You gave,

"Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

That passage says nothing about sucking the brains out of a baby with a vacumm while still in the womb. You are not binding the baby, but murdering it.
---Mark_V. on 9/15/12


why do the righteous need to make laws?
---Anita on 9/7/12

We do not need to Make laws, as much as we need to follow the laws of God

also keep in mind that God gives us authority to make decisions / laws, and he honours them


Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
---francis on 9/14/12


//Just another false name in your resume, Lee (aka: maryg, cluny, etc.)?

The handle that I use is the one that Christianet provides me. I use that because there are some that wish to correspond with me aside from these blogs. If they change it, then I do also.

But what is your problem besides being an Adventists?
---elee7537 on 9/14/12


Jerry, you've asked the question 3 times now (the answer is no).

I have little desire to have any conversation with you. I have found you to be obnoxious, condescending, and having little desire to have an adult conversation. You choose, instead, to insult and demean others and to play "gotcha" to try to prove your superiority to others. You may have a lot to teach, but the manner you choose to present it turns people off.
---NurseRobert on 9/14/12


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"Just to think how better off the world would have been if the parents of Barak Obama would have aborted their pregnancy."



elee: Just another false name in your resume, Lee (aka: maryg, cluny, etc.)?



---jerry6593 on 9/14/12


************

Nurse Robert: As a nurse, have you ever participated in an abortion?


************

---jerry6593 on 9/14/12


LADIES AND GENTLEMENT, PRESENTING YOUR ANTI-ABORTIONIST:

Just to think how better off the world would have been if the parents of Adolf Hitler would have aborted their pregnancy.

Much the same can be said of
olde Ellen White with her sicko visionary type of religion.

And to that we would not have to bear either Jerry boy or Frances, they would be worshipping with others on the Lord's Day, sunday.
---elee7537 on 9/13/12

For more on leej comments Read National Sunday Law
by Jan Marcussen

also: John 16:2 yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

John 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
---francis on 9/13/12


Just to think how better off the world would have been if the parents of Adolf Hitler would have aborted their pregnancy.

Much the same can be said of
olde Ellen White with her sicko visionary type of religion.

And to that we would not have to bear either Jerry boy or Frances, they would be worshipping with others on the Lord's Day, sunday.
---elee7537 on 9/13/12


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\\This is true as long as the person (or law-maker) accepts that the baby is a person at the time of abortion

I take the baby to be, but if it is not (or if the person you are talking to) believe that the baby is not a person until 10 weeks pregnancy then the accusation of murder is ruined. \\

Even if a person refuses to believe that the unborn child is a person, that does not stop the unborn child from being a person.

Steve (I think that's his first name, I may be mistaken) Petersen in California was charged with a double homicide for killing his wife AND his unborn child.

However, if the mother kills the child, it's a choice.

Is this "equal justice"?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/13/12


Peter, we do not have to be told by anyone who is a person. We know in our hearts that a person is inside a woman when she is pregnant. You know it is not a dog, or a bird, but a human being. And when the legs are pulled out, and the head is kept in, and the brains are sucked out with a vacumm, they are killing a human being, a person. No one who votes for abortion defends that person. They just let him/her die. They are as guilty as the one doing the murdering. Who would just stand by and watch someone murder a child and say it is ok? Not a true believer who loves the Lord with all his heart and all of his mind.
---Mark_V. on 9/13/12


Nurse Robert: As a nurse, have you ever participated in an abortion?



---jerry6593 on 9/13/12


Cluny: 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER A CHILD BY ABORTION'

This is true as long as the person (or law-maker) accepts that the baby is a person at the time of abortion

I take the baby to be, but if it is not (or if the person you are talking to) believe that the baby is not a person until 10 weeks pregnancy then the accusation of murder is ruined.

There, you have to provide the evidence (of which I see little) that THE BABY IS A PERSON FROM FERTILIZATION

Prove that to them, and I think they will agree with you

At least, that is why object to abortion
---Peter on 9/12/12


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cluny i see you early christian teaching, and I raise you one bible scripture:

Numbers 5:27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse

Now what do you call it when the known outcome of any procedure is misscarriage of the baby or terninmation of the pregnancy
---francis on 9/12/12


Here is the earliest Christian comment on abortion. It's from the Didache:

\\Chapter 2. The Second Commandment: Grave Sin Forbidden. And the second commandment of the Teaching, You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft,

YOU SHALL NOT MURDER A CHILD BY ABORTION nor kill that which is born.\\

I don't see any exceptions allowed.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/12/12


Be it further RESOLVED, ... will allow the possibility of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, SBC 1971

In continuity with past Christian teaching, we recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures...
The Book of Discipline of The United Methodist Church - 2004

It is no longer a question of whether or not christians allow for abortion under tragic conditions. The question is where should people who face these horible choices go to have these church approved abortions: At home, in a motel, Mexica, Canada, or in a state-of-the-art hospital in U S A?
---francis on 9/12/12


This is from the SDA "guidelines" on abortion.

"The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. "

Two questions:

1. How does this differ from the pro-choice position?

2. Isn't this EXACTLY what Roe v. Wade said? This decision, btw, was based on PERJURED testimony.

The Orthodox Church does not base her "guidelines" on the Supreme Court or Democratic party. They are simple: Abortion is killing, and a sin. Don't do it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/12/12


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Francis you would deny it if Jesus himself told you. The proof is there, you simply chose to ignore it.
---NurseRobert on 9/12/12


Frances - you really need to reseach this subject as it is very clear that Adventist sponsored hospital do provide abortion services. Suggest you call one of you hospitals and ask if you can get an abortion there. They will tell you to come on in with your checkbook and they will take care of you.

Adventists, as you refuse to admit, are as deep into sin as anyone in any other denomination, The difference is that we as Christians have been credited with the righteousness that is in Christ, instead of our own. Too bad Adventists are not that much into the Bible, stuck under the smelly skirts of olde Ellen White.
---elee7537 on 9/12/12


Even a cursory search will show pages of information on abortions in Adventist Hospitals. You can deny all you want, the fact is it happened and is still happening.
---NurseRobert on 9/12/12
Deny that they do abortions or abortions on demand?

The church has guidelines for abortion, that guideline excluses abortion on demand ( for birth control or convenience) i would expect the hospitals to follow the guidelines.

Unless you have had an abortion on demand it is hear say

read my posts
---francis on 9/12/12


KJV Bible does not mention abortion. ---jerry6593 on 9/12/12
1: KJV is not the only version available, nothing in Gods word says KJV
2: Numbers 5 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry,

Numbers 5:27 .. that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, [and become] bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.

Read other version to see what: and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot means
---francis on 9/12/12


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NurseRobert, if things about abortions in SDA hospitals are merely hearsay if they are on the internet, then does it not follow that things about the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches on the internet are merely hearsay, too?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/12/12


Francis, the survey was written by Gerald R. Winslow and published as Abortion Policies in Adventist Hospitals Spectrum 19/4 (May 1989): 47-50.

Even a cursory search will show pages of information on abortions in Adventist Hospitals. You can deny all you want, the fact is it happened and is still happening.
---NurseRobert on 9/12/12


Francis: The KJV Bible does not mention abortion. It is only your corrupt, New Age bibles that do.


Nurse Robert: As a nurse, have you ever participated in an abortion?


---jerry6593 on 9/12/12


"A survey conducted three years later by the Loma Linda University Ethics Department revealed that five of these Adventist hospitals were engaged like our CMH in elective abortions."
---NurseRobert on 9/11/12


Again proving my point that unless you read THE PRIGINAL survey, what you are saying is hear-say

You hear from someone that someone said in a survery..., that is hear-say

You autor did not even quote the original survey

You need to read the Original survey. Other sopurces said that those surveyed did not know the difference between " elective" and " theraputic.
---francis on 9/11/12


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Now let me point this out from THE BIBLE:

Numbers 5:27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people
Numbers 5:28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean, then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.
Numbers 5:31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.


In the case where a chld is aborted due to adultery, the man is not held guilty of Murder
---francis on 9/11/12


Francis, you forgot these quote:

"A survey conducted three years later by the Loma Linda University Ethics Department revealed that five of these Adventist hospitals were engaged like our CMH in elective abortions."

Neal Wilson, past president of General Conference explained it this way: "Though we walk the fence, Adventists lean toward abortion rather than against it. Because we realize we are confronted by big problems of hunger and overpopulation, we do not oppose family planning and appropriate endeavors to control population."

It's not my goal to bash the SDA - Im sure others will be happy to do that - but to point out that not everyone has all the answers.
---NurseRobert on 9/11/12


---NurseRobert on 9/11/12

I read the article you recommended

Here are some quotes:
What do we know about abortion provided by these medical facilities? The answer is that we dont know enough,

This means that our WAH was averaging 213 abortions per year. Some have suggested that all these abortion might have been of therapeutic kindresulting from rape, incest, and malformationsbut the large number suggests the opposite

NO PROOF OF ABORTIONS ON DEMAND just hear say
---francis on 9/11/12


Francis. You say if I've never had an abortion or know someone who did its here say. I've never had cardiac surgery either or know someone who has had one but I know SDA hospitals perform them.
---NurseRobert on 9/10/12


interesting continued nit-picking about murdering of babies when it is legal in America and 95% of the world! Soon it will not matter who performs the abortion because one law in America will have tax payer funded abortions, and another law will make all health care providers regardless of their convictions perform baby-killings. The blood of all these babies will be on the hands of every American. Your debate is foolish in light of the reality of the near future!
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/11/12


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Fraoncis your "here say" argument is a straw man. Its obviousy You chose to ignore a truth because you feel it makes the SDA look bad. Your own spiritual leader admits it occurs, statements documented by a member of your church - someone aghast that Aventist hospitals perform abortions for any reason.

Your response to this says a lot about you.
---NurseRobert on 9/11/12


Francis. You say if I've never had an abortion or know someone who did its here say. I've never had cardiac surgery either or know someone who has had one but I know SDA hospitals perform them.
---NurseRobert on 9/10/12


Abortions, including on demand abortions, are being performed in Adventist hospitals. To deny it's happening is ludicrous.
---elee7537 on 9/10/12

HEAR-SAY. Unless you have personaly have had an abortion or witnessed one all is hear-say
---francis on 9/10/12



Francis, denial and diversion?
---NurseRobert on 9/10/12

NurseRobert, have you personally had an abortion on demand, or personally hears any SDA say that SDA hospitals perform abortions on demand?

OR

Are you getting this information second hand HEAR-SAY?

---francis on 9/10/12


HEAR-SAY.....--francis on 9/10/12

Francis, denial and diversion? Your argument comes down to "NO WE DON'T, but even if we do so do you." That doesn't change the fact that SDA hospitals are providing abortion services, both as inpatient and outpatient. This information is available online.

Ted Wilson, the current President of the General Conference has said they are providing abortions.

I would encourage you to read the article referred to. It may open your eyes.
---NurseRobert on 9/10/12


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Abortions, including on demand abortions, are being performed in Adventist hospitals. To deny it's happening is ludicrous.
---elee7537 on 9/10/12

HEAR-SAY. Unless you have personaly have had an abortion or witnessed one all is hear-say

By the way your OPC has th every same exception as SDA for abortions. Maybe you just do not know that you OPC does allow for abortions in some cases.
Report of the Committee to Study the Matter of Abortion
Presented to the thirty-eighth General Assembly of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (1971)


So where should a member of the OPC got o get the abortion which the OPC allows for> Back alley, Mexica or Canada?
---francis on 9/10/12


Abortions, including on demand abortions, are being performed in Adventist hospitals. To deny it's happening is ludicrous.

good for you a great time waster!! once Obama is re-elected tax payer funded abortions will be passed making every person in America, who works, paying for babies to be legally killed in every baby-killing-mill in America by way of income taxes!! another pending law to force all health care workers to perform abortions regardless of their beliefs. far more ludicrous then your suggestion!! cry whine and preach all you want about these sda-hospitals you just look foolish, because these pending laws will have the blood of these butchered babies on the hands of every citizen of America!!!
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/10/12


//There is an interesting article you should read: Investigation into our Adventist involvement with the Abortion Industry, by Nic Samojluk (a member of the SDA). You can cut and paste into google and it should come up.

Abortions, including on demand abortions, are being performed in Adventist hospitals. To deny it's happening is ludicrous.

I have been corresponding with Nic S. for the past 6 months. What he says about Adventists hospitals are true. He is an SDA but unlike the unregenerates on this forum, also a Christian.

We can also see the SDA abortion debate on CARM.
---elee7537 on 9/10/12


Anita, We all do have the freedom of choice. We were all created, by GOD, with free-will. No one can "make" anyone choose one thing or the other. Even GOD does not force anyone to make a particular choice. What is happening here is that, some things are GOOD choices and some are BAD. It's a matter of what's right and what's wrong. Good versus Evil. GOD presents the Choice between Good and Evil, Life and Death, before each one of us. And HE says to us, "Choose Good", "Choose Life". But, HE will not force us to choose Life and the Good. We have to want it badly enough. BUT, HE warns that if we choose Evil and Wrong, we will reap Death. Eternal Death for Eternity. Abortion is Murder. Murder is wrong and evil.
---Gordon on 9/9/12


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anita a babies heart is beating at 18 days, all body parts by 4 weeks, brain waves at 6 weeks. America butchers 4000 human beings a day inside mothers womb. An abortionist uses a vacuum to forcefully remove baby from mothers uterus, then vacuum begins sucking up limbs, the babies head is too big to be removed from the vacuum so the abortionist crushes the babies head with an instrument and then vacuums up the brain matter. do you really believe a civil society has the right to butcher precious life this way? cold heartless no compassion. how numb must an abortionist be and people who support this vicious death? It's inconceivable to believe this barbaric murder is legal and free will rules over life.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/9/12


I really have to laugh. Anita posed the question that religion is imposing their will on others! A crock seeing abortion is legal. If abortion is legal then it is not possible for religion to be imposing anything on anyone. Anita would like everyone to make their own decisions and keep righteous people from making any laws. To which I suggested we release all prisoners who have committed murder because America has a law that allows baby murdering (a big contradiction wouldn't you say?) there is some hospital called adventist that allows abortion (by law) that makes people who are against abortion (like me) wrong.. And, this is the best part, we have never heard back from this Anita poster. cheers!
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/8/12


Anita on 9/7/12

why do you suppose that you have free will now?

it is because your mother chose to continue you before you had a voice.

i would say that not choosing to continue life for another is the opposite of free will.
---aka on 9/8/12


FoC, the civil law allowing something does not make it morally right.

The civil law allows for remarriage after divorce, though our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ called such relationships adultery.

OTOH, Jesus said NOTHING in the Gospels about Sabbath observance. Nor did the Apostles make it obligatory upon Gentile Christians.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/8/12


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You problem is that you are quick to call one a fool when you hear the truth- something you probably are immune to.
---elee7537 on 9/8/12


interesting I can now add stupidity to the list! As I already stated I don't know of any adventist sponsored hospitals I haven't been to a hospital in over 20 years. As for what an adventist is I would have to look it up and I'm too tired. You're just a devils advocate who is a pro-abortionist all played-out by using others as the hypocrites. low-ball tactics to move yourself away from your position and attack others. good luck with that gig because the antidote for your immune-stricken mind is too far down the road. Peace.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/8/12


Sorry about that follow of Ellen White,but all you need to do is to Google Adventism abortion and you will see that Adventism has guidelines that permit them to be either pro-life or pro-choice.

Of course, maybe you would rather do the ostrich thing and stick you beaty little head in the sand.
---elee7537 on 9/8/12


\\If one is truly in need of an abortion, then the Adventist sponsored hospitals will accommodate you.\\

Good grief! That's something ELSE terrible and revolting about them.


I have to laugh at the stupidity of those who call out an Adventist hospital (whatever that is we don't have any hospitals by that name where I live) as evil for performing abortions when it is by the law of the land in America and the nations on earth that allow the provider of abortions to legally kill babies. As for condemning the provider for their legal right to kill a baby is akin to playing the devils advocate making you a supporter of killing of babies.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/8/12


As I stated, Adventist sponsored hospitals accommodate those who want abortions. As such, are you not much the same kind of hypocrite as others?
---elee7537 on 9/7/12


As I stated, the 10 commandments has little or nothing to do with love of neighbor as I can kick the daylight out of Francis and not be found violating any of the big 10.
---lee1538 on 1/22/12

Follower_of_Christ be careful, this guy does not like SDA, He has SDA reletives and I fear that they are in danger.
Sometimes they have to agree with him on issues or he may "..kick the daylight out of (them) and not be found violating any of the big 10."
---lee1538 on 1/22/12
---francis on 9/8/12


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//You are far more of an ignorant fool than I originally thought!!! Sadly your assumption makes you more a fool!!

Like so many Adventists, you are truly ignorant of the current position of the Adventist hierarchy.

Reference Adventlife as a Nic Samojluk, an Adventist is currently battling the SDA hierarchy to change its position on abortion.

You can also read of this debate within Adventism on CARM forum. Many Adventists are very upset.

You problem is that you are quick to call one a fool when you hear the truth- something you probably are immune to.
---elee7537 on 9/8/12


Adventists have no doctrine against abortion, only a wishy-washy text suggesting guidelines for abortion...carefully crafted to allow for members to be either pro-choice or pro-life....The guidelines do not state abortion is wrong...only expressions like, 'Abortion is one of the tragic dilemmas of human fallenness.... Attitudes of condemnation are inappropriate in those who have accepted the gospel.'

The published guidelines are practically immaterial bec they are a 'front' for a hospital system that can choose to abide or disregard them. Some Adventist hospitals perform abortions -on-demand and are used by doctors to even do late-term abortions

From Its OK not to be an SDA by Teresa Beem
---elee7537 on 9/8/12


If you have brought up children, may be at times you have stopped them from doing what is bad for them and they would scream that you don't love them. So, just because killers of their unborn and ones wanting false marriage say we "hate" them . . . doesn't mean we do. There are pleasures that are not worth the price we pay.

But I notice how ones claim they believe the unborn are people, yet they make so much more of a thing about a few people being killed by terrorists, but give hardly any attention to all the babies being killed. So, do they really deeply feel the unborn are people?
---willie_c: on 9/8/12


As I stated, Adventist sponsored hospitals accommodate those who want abortions. As such, are you not much the same kind of hypocrite as others?

You are far more of an ignorant fool than I originally thought!!! Sadly your assumption makes you more a fool!! I don't know what an Adventists sponsored hospital is (or if one exists in my city, or even if all hospitals are Adventists sponsored) nor do I care because I have not set foot in a hospital in more than 20 years! Interesting it is always the true hypocrites that jump to conclusions from their own backward intellect. Taught to point the finger at others as being a hypocrite to deflect anyone from finding out that you are the true hypocrite and a open proud liar.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/8/12


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97% of all americans claim to be christians:

I have always mentained, that if only the christians in America would stop having abortions, the abortion rate would decrease 97%
---francis on 9/8/12


Fallower_of_Christ// It is ridiculous to make someone who has committed murder to pay such deep and steep consequences in America. How unfair these poor murders used their free will and made a decision to murder and if caught many spend an entire lifetime in prison paying the price for making a decision.

As I stated, Adventist sponsored hospitals accommodate those who want abortions. As such, are you not much the same kind of hypocrite as others?
---elee7537 on 9/7/12


\\If one is truly in need of an abortion, then the Adventist sponsored hospitals will accommodate you.\\

Good grief! That's something ELSE terrible and revolting about them.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/7/12


God gave us more than just Free Will, he also gave us responsibility and a conscience. Protection of the unborn should be a natural but in our broken world and society, it no longer is "our responsibility". And we harden our hearts so we can no longer hear His quiet voice and duct tape our conscience.

As for why religious groups are getting in the way? On the one hand many are just "doing something" by protesting and it makes them feel good. Other offer abortion alternatives, because they or their friends would like to be able to adopt.

Sacrifices in the name of convenience.....
---chip on 9/7/12


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Anita you are so right! It is ridiculous to make someone who has committed murder to pay such deep and steep consequences in America. How unfair these poor murders used their free will and made a decision to murder and if caught many spend an entire lifetime in prison paying the price for making a decision. The oxymoronic decision to allow the murder of babies should nullify murder of adults, children, and the elderly!! afterall murdering all these folks is just someone exercising their free will. You are so right Anita we should end this righteousness right now and demand all murderers by released from prison and all laws regarding murder by removed!!
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/7/12


Anita...At what point do you think it is alright to kill a baby?
---KarenD on 9/7/12


\\why do the righteous need to make laws?\\


laws are intended to restrain corrupt people, because it becomes obvious that those corrupt people do not have the capacity to make choices that are decent.

The law doesn't infringe on your ability to choose, or negate your free will. It simply imposes a consequence for corrupt behavior, such as murdering an innocent baby.

But no laws can change the heart. If the law was changed to make abortion illegal, you would simply curse the law. Wouldn't you?
---James_L on 9/7/12


Anita...We do have free will, but we don't have the choice to murder another human being. Your reasoning would allow people to do anything they want since we have free will. Your line of thinking is exactly why we have to have laws.
---KarenD on 9/7/12


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Because laws allow us to live in peace with each other
For example,
Me - I want to steal your car.
You - Go away or i will call the cops.
Me - but you can't, i have the free will and the ability to choose to steal you car.
Do you have the rights to the car, yes, because you bought it. Does a baby have a right to life?
Amazing everywhere else the law defends the person being taken advantage of except in abortions.
---Scott1 on 9/7/12


If we truly have choices...if we have a free will...
---Anita on 9/7/12

These are illusions. Let me demonstrate.

Drive your car 100 mph everywhere you go. It is your free will to do so. See what happens.

Determine that you will never wait in line and cut in front of everyone, everywhere. It is your choice to do so. See what happens.

These points illustrate that we all operate in a system called society where its values are the collective values of all people. The values of the society can be changed, and some feel strongly that the values concerning abortion need changing.
---Mark_Eaton on 9/7/12


If one is truly in need of an abortion, then the Adventist sponsored hospitals will accommodate you. There is a battle within Adventism today on this issue and it is yet resolved.
Foolish Adventists boast that they observe the Sabbath but ignore the fact that they are guilty of murdering the unborn.
---elee7537 on 9/7/12


Anita, why do we have laws against robbery, shoplifting, breaking into people's houses, domestic violence, and murder? Shouldn't people be allowed to make their own choices and hurt and kill whoever they wish?
---Jed on 9/7/12


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Something else, Anita.

Not all choices and decisions are morally or spiritually neutral. Some choices have tragic results in this life for ourselves and others and, apart from God's mercy, in eternity as well.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/7/12


A person's free will does not include causing the death of another human being and that is what a woman who has an abortion does,kill a human being. If you check the DNA of a fetus in the womb it would show it is already a human being,birth doesn't make it human. Killing another person is murder and that is a fact no view point or argument can change.
---Darlene_1 on 9/7/12


That's PRECISELY what's wrong with abortion.

Why should a woman enforce her will--namely death--on another human being, which is what the unborn child is?

I've noticed a rise in mothers killing their young children lately. Sooner or later, a defense lawyer will ask the question, "When does a woman lose her right to choose?" Many people, including female congress members, say the child is not a person unless and until the woman voluntarily takes it home.

Remember, not all choices are good ones. ALL of our choices have always been limited at civil law.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/7/12


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