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How To Really Follow Jesus

I was thinking about the song "I HAVE DECIDED TO FOLLOW JESUS" and we are to take up our cross and follow Him

Scriture also warns us about false prophets, teachers, and apostles, and many will follow their wicked ways.

Have you seriously examined who you are following?

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 ---Rob on 9/21/12
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"Still at the subject of Pharaoh and his hardened heart..." Christan (1)

Rotherham's Translation-

"And Yahweh said unto Moses, When thou goest to return to Egypt, see as touching all the wonders which I have put in thy hand, that thou do them before Pharaoh- but, I, will let his heart wax bold, and he will not suffer the people to go."

The appendix to Rotherham's translation shows that in Hebrew the occasion or permission of an event is often presented as if it were the cause of the event, and that "even positive commands are occasionally to be accepted as meaning no more than permission."

Additional appendix comments to follow...
---scott on 10/5/12


"Pharaoh and his hardened heart..." Christan (2)

Rotherham's Appendix-

"Thus at Exodus 1:17 the original Hebrew text literally says that the midwives "caused the male children to live," whereas in reality they permitted them to live by refraining from putting them to death..."

(Citing the support of biblical scholars Kalisch, Gesenius and Davies), Rotherham states that the Hebrew sense of the texts involving Pharaoh is that "God permitted Pharaoh to harden his own heart- spared him- gave him the opportunity, the occasion, of working out the wickedness that was in him. That is all."

The Emphasised Bible, appendix, p. 919, compare Isa 10:5-7.
---scott on 10/5/12


Marc, throwing insults will not get you saved, or give evidence that you are born of the Spirit. I hear the same comments from those others who have nothing from God's word, and rather become slanderous towards others. This will not get you into heaven. Only by the Grace of God through faith can you be saved. By the grace of God, not by any of your own works of selfrighteous. God has to change you. You cannot change yourself.
---Mark_V. on 10/5/12


"The word "take" means "laqach"- Mark_V

You're embarrassing yourself.

What I actually said was:

"Another example of this is when God said to Abraham" 'Take, I pray thee, thy son..." Gen 22:2, YLT. Here "na" is attached to the Hebrew word for "take".

"Na" is attached to the words "take" (laqach) and "turn" (shuwb) that God spoke in my two examples in Job and and Genesis. It's easy to look up for yourself but, for some, ignorance is bliss.

Jacob said:

"Please ["I pray thee"- ASV, YLT] let my lord pass on..." Gen 33:14 NKJV, NASB,
---scott on 10/5/12


Christan's Rant-

It is clear that Christan is unable to refute the simple fact that in the Hebrew scriptures when "na" (defined by BDB as "I pray, now, please) is attached to an imperative it changes what could be a command to an entreaty.

This common feature occurs over 50 times in Genesis alone. Rarely does it apply to the words spoken by the Almighty God but, in fact, this is clearly the case in Gen 22:2, and Jer 25:5.

This highlights the truth of the matter that, while all-powerful and mighty, Jehovah is first a God of love.

"As I live" saith the Lord Jehovah, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live." Ex 33:11, ASV
---scott on 10/5/12




"You're still a slave of God and not yet a glorified son." Marc

Do not use words you do not understand. "Glorification" of the saints have yet to happen because Christ has yet to come to judge the world.

And if I am a slave of God, I'm truly blessed. Better be a slave to God in His Son Jesus Christ than be a slave to the prince of the air, satan.

I thank God that He gave you eyes to recognize that I'm His slave and He's my master.

How's your master doing?
---christan on 10/5/12


Marc, while we're still at the subject of Pharaoh and his hardened heart, you keep quoting from chapters that clearly demonstrate that Exodus 4:21 is true. So you see, the sequence of the hardening starts from Exodus 4:21 - God declares He's going to harden Pharaoh's heart.

After which, follows the action of God's hardening in Exodus 7:3,13,14,22. Exodus 8:15,19,32. Exodus 9:7,12,34,35. Exodus 10:1,20,27. Exodus 11:10. Exodus 14:4,8,17.

I do hope you can recognize numbers in sequence.

"...the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." Isaiah 46:11
---christan on 10/5/12


Christan,

You're still a slave of God and not yet a glorified son.

Maybe you've confused the God of the Bible with your own father?
---Marc on 10/5/12


Scott, you can go on jabbering with your references from "Wenham, G. J. (2002). Vol. 2: Word Biblical Commentary.".

The authority to believing the Bible is the Holy Spirit. And I assure you that out of the thirty versions of the Holy Bible available, only one (that's yours) has the word "please". God does not say or need to say to the sinner, "Please turn from your evil ways."

But rather, we as sinners will pray, "Heavenly Father, please forgive me of my sins." So, if anyone who's going to do the begging, it's the sinner and NOT GOD! He owes no apologies or explanation to anyone, let alone those He created from dust!

What a pathetic god you worship.
---christan on 10/5/12


MarkV and Christian,
Re Pharaoh's heart, read the next verse Exodus 9:17 "As yet you exalt yourself against My people in that you will not let them go." It's clearly Pharaoh hardening his own.

Pharaoh's reaction: "I've sinned this time. The LORD is righteous, and my people and I are wicked." Question: Is this Pharaoh saying this or is God manipulating Pharaoh's mind? Then of course Pharaoh changed his mind and persecuted the Israelites even more. So this change of mind, is it God causing Pharaoh to change or does Pharaoh change it himself?
Come on guys, demonstrate if you have any intellectual integrity because so far you've more or less ignored our proof texts and just quoted others stripped from their context.
---Marc on 10/5/12




Scott, you will twist the words of Scripture in order to reject the Truth. you say,
"Another example of this is when God said to Abraham" 'Take, I pray thee, thy son..." Gen 22:2, YLT. Here "na" is attached to the Hebrew word for "take"."
So what you said is not what the word "Take" means at all. The word "take" means "laqach"
"law-kakh" a prim root, to take (in the widest variety of applications) accept, buy, carry away, draw, fetch, get, mingle, place etc.
Which is a command.
Please, stop your rediculous commantaries. Your problem is that you are looking in Scripture for reasons to reject the Truth of God and replace it with a lie.
---Mark_V. on 10/5/12


How To Really Follow Jesus:

There is only one way to follow God and that is through the Cross of Christ. We are not able to follow Gods law unless we put our faith totally in the One who was able to follow and fulfill them and that was Jesus. Read Matthew 5: 17, Galatians 3:13, Romans 10: 4 Titus 3:5, Hebrews 11:6. John 6: 28-29. Then said they unto Him, What shall we do, that we might work the Works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the Work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent (it offends the self-righteous to tell them that.
---Patricia on 10/4/12


"Truly, truly amazing."- Christan (2)

"na"-

BDB Definition:


1) I (we) pray, now, please

1a) used in entreaty or exhortation


Word Biblical Commentary-

"The way the command [to Abraham] is put here tries to soften the blow for Abraham while maximizing our realization of its enormity. "Please take." The use of the enclitic "please" is rare in a divine command and makes it more like an entreaty, another hint that the Lord appreciates the costliness of what he is asking."

Wenham, G. J. (2002). Vol. 2: Word Biblical Commentary : Genesis 16-50. Word Biblical Commentary (104). Dallas: Word, Inc.
---scott on 10/4/12


Proverbs 21:21
He that followeth after righteousness and mercy findeth life, righteousness, and honour.

Proverbs 15:9
The way of the wicked is an abomination unto the LORD: but he loveth him that followeth after righteousness.

John 12:26
If any man serve me, let him follow me, and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things, and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

To follow the Lord Jesus by obeying his 10 laws (righteousness) you serve the Lord when you follow his laws.
---Follower_of_Christ on 10/4/12


"Scott, you're truly, truly amazing."- Christan (1)

Color me blushing. scott

"Turn back, PLEASE..." Christan

Are you aware that the OT was written in Hebrew (parts in Aramaic) and not in English?

If you look at the Hebrew text for Jer 25:5 you will find the participle "na" attached to the Hebrew word for "return".

This is significant as this use of "na" generally softens a command to an entreaty.

Another example of this is when God said to Abraham" 'Take, I pray thee, thy son..." Gen 22:2, YLT. Here "na" is attached to the Hebrew word for "take".

Continued...
---scott on 10/4/12


Scott, you're truly, truly amazing. Here's why. Thirty available English Bibles, you pick one bible from Lexham English Bible that contains, "Turn back, PLEASE..." None of the others has the word "please"!

"please"? You seriously believe that God is begging the man He created to repent and not commanding the man to repent? Did He tell Adam, "Please do not eat..." or in His commandments "please do not kill"? To Pharaoh "please let my people go"? Seriously?

Do you even know what's a "COMMAND"? Simple English define it "to direct with specific authority or prerogative, order"
---christan on 10/4/12


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"Re God hardening Pharaoh's heart, it was caused by God's and the magicians' miracles (Ex 7:13,22), not by God per se." Marc

Really? Exodus 4:21 - "And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I WILL HARDEN HIS HEART, that he shall not let the people go."

So which sequence of time came first? Exodus 4:21 or Exodus 7:13,22? Here's the kicker, ...the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." Isaiah 46:11
---christan on 10/4/12


"Context of Jer. 18"- Mark_V (2)

Jer 25:5, 6:

"Turn back, please, every one from his bad way and...badness of your dealings...that I may not cause calamity to you."

This appeal would be pointless if God had already fixed each individuals destiny.

"If at any time I [God] announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent ["repent"] and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned." Jer 18:7,8

And God did exactly this with the the Ninevites. (Jonah 3) They changed and so did he accordingly.
---scott on 10/4/12


"Context of Jer. 18"- Mark_V (1)

The context, in contrast to your Calvinist twisting of the text, reveals that the people simply had a choice and God would deal with them accordingly.

17:9 "The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate. Who can know it?..."

If predetermined certainly God "knows it" right?

"...I, Jehovah, am searching the heart, examining the kidneys, even to give to each one according to his ways, according to the fruitage of his dealings."

God's clear statement is meaningless if the choices that nations and individuals make are predetermined. What exactly is he "searching" for and "examining"?
---scott on 10/4/12


Marc, God could have changed Pharoah's heart if He so wanted and not brought the calamities to Pharoah and his people. But God had a reason for what He did. You said,
" if God really wanted the Israelites to leave Egypt why did he harden Pharaoh's heart to produce the opposite effect? If it were God acting directly wouldn't he unharden Pharaoh's heart?"

God's actions did not produce the opposite effect, it was just as God planned.
" But indeed for this purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you and that My name may be declared in all the earth" (Ex. 9:16: Rom. 9:17).
God protect Pharoah all his life for that moment in time. No possibility Pharoah would die before that time.
---Mark_V. on 10/4/12


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Marc, here is what you had to say:
"Why would God tell people to choose if people do not have a will and are incapable of making a choice on their own? The very fact that the word "choose" is in the Bible even once is proof that people do have the ability to act on their own will."
People do have a choice and a will, which is the very reason they are held accountable. God is not ask to chose anyone, He choses whomsoever He wants. You defend the rights of man to choose over the rights of God to choose. How many times does the Bible tells us God chooses?.
"He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand" (Dan. 4:35).
---Mark_V. on 10/4/12


Scott, let's cut to the chase. I believe as declared in Isaiah 46:10,

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure."

The world affairs is already been "written" by God from eternity and they are all merely coming to fruition as declared by the above verse according to His purpose and pleasure. It include those whom He's going to save and condemned. Only God knows the number, we don't. But make no mistake, in His Word, He's told us so.

As for you, you think that God has no idea what's going to happen tomorrow or the days to come, hence the verses you use to justify your heart thoughts.
---christan on 10/3/12


I was told to confess your sins. Ok, now what? I was told dont do that. Ok, so how do I stop it? I was told pray about it. Ok, now what?

Never once was I told that I am complete in Christ. Paul was instructed to say it like this. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: Colossians 2:10.

Knowing, not wishing, thinking or hoping, but KNOWING who you are in Christ makes all the difference. Religion does not have the answers to the questions that set the believer free to serve the Lord. If they do not have the answers they can't give them to you. Ditto for Tradition and Denominationalism.
---michael_e on 10/3/12


Mark V: "Did God know already that the people were going to reject Him? Yes, He is Omniscient who knows all."

Technically, what you've committed is called question-begging. It's an informal fallacy in thinking. You've assumed your position (God knows the future exhaustively) is the default one and thus any argumentation is based on the [unproven] truth of it. Like saying, the President is a liar because Democrats lie as a matter of course and he is a Democrat so he must lie.
---Marc on 10/3/12


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Christian and Mark V,

Re God hardening Pharaoh's heart, it was caused by God's and the magicians' miracles (Ex 7:13,22), not by God per se. That is, Pharaoh hardened his own heart (cf Ex8:15, 9:17,34, 10:3,4, 1Sam6:6).Logically, if God really wanted the Israelites to leave Egypt why did he harden Pharaoh's heart to produce the opposite effect? If it were God acting directly wouldn't he unharden Pharaoh's heart?

Re John 1:12, SEE what's written, namely, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God" i.e. they FIRST accepted Christ which gave them the right to THEN become God's children. Cause ALWAYS precedes effect!

The salvation plan is God's, the choice to accept or not is ours.
---Marc on 10/3/12


Scott, did you read the context of (Jer. 18:7,8)? God ordered Jeremiah to go to a potters house and wash as the potter changed one vessel he made to a good vessel. Jeremiah was to take the example to the people and to tells them what God had said He would do "if" they changed. Did God relent? No. Did God know already that the people were going to reject Him? Yes, He is Omniscient who knows all. Did God change His impending Judgment? No. There was a condition "if" Everything that happens in history God already knows. Nothing changes what has already been ordained by God from the foundation of the world. God causes dreams for the enemies of Israel, or He helps the enemies to defeat the Isralites to punish them.
---Mark_V. on 10/3/12


"Scott you seem to believe..." Christan

No, contrary to your long-winded commentary on my "beliefs" I simply posted 2 verses from the book of Jonah (without one word of commentary) in response to your claim that God cannot change his mind.

Here's another. Feel free to tell me what my beliefs are about it.

"If at any time I [God] announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent ["repent", KJV, ESV, DBY, etc.] and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned." Jeremiah 18:7,8 NIV
---scott on 10/3/12


Marc, your attitude towards Christ's command to go preach the Gospel regardless is truly bewildering. And you're a Christian?

Anyways, when God chose Moses to set His people free from Egypt, didn't He tell Moses to go to Pharaoh and demand he let God's people go? And yet God told Moses that He was going to harden Pharaoh's heart to not let His people go. Did Moses go forth or did he have the same kind of attitude like you?

The same is what's happening here or the world. I know and believe God isn't going to save everyone, but do I know who He's going to save? No I don't! But that's not going to stop me from witnessing and testifying the Truth. If He wants to harden you with this Truth, that's your problem with Him not mine.
---christan on 10/3/12


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"Rather than call someone's ideas "perverted", you might demonstrate some intellectual honesty by attempting to show HOW the verses Scott and I have quoted do not show God changing his mind. Plain reading of the text says that God did change his mind." Marc

Ditto.
---scott on 10/3/12


Christian,

More fool you eh?! Fancy even arguing with atheists and us. If it's God who alters some people's minds and not others, then you're wasting your time, but more importantly, ours.

I mean, why do you even bother to argue and [mis]quote Scripture? Is it because it makes you feel great and can tacitly rub the noses of the unsaved in "your" Gospel, [falsely] believing that God chose you and not billions of others, who, by the capricious will of your "God", were destined to live in order to show you how superior you are to be a part of the chosen Elect.

What a sad figure you cut.
---Marc on 10/3/12


Luke 11:13 "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

There is no 'Sorry that I asked' or pre-arranged entitlement program there either. (Atcs 15:19 "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:")

There is nothing God centered for whom badgers his fellow man always.

God's patience and strenght need not prove themselves constantly af if he never rests, continually is recreating:

Matthew 5:24 "Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift."
---Nana on 10/3/12


Marc, don't start throwing accusations like others, If you want to discuss godly matters, don't invite the devil. You said,

"You say that our Father REFUSES to save his children when he could. That, Mark, is a doctrine of the devil"

I never said that God refuses to save His children. You don't understand those who are perishing are not His children. His children are those who belong to Him, born of the Spirit.
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name" now hear who are those who believe, "Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, "nor of the will of man," but of God"
---Mark_V. on 10/3/12


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Scott, your understanding of Jonah 3:10 says you seem to believe that the men of Nineveh by their free-will turned and repented of their evil, and that's why God did not bring about the destruction that He had threatened. Sad to say, this doctrine of yours is "man centered" as God depended on the man to repent on their own.

It was God who wanted to show mercy and compassion that He willed them to repent and with the Faith that He gives only to those whom He had loved from eternity through regeneration, God is pleased. Also, repentance without faith is worthless to God. "But without faith it is impossible to please him"

This is "GOD CENTERED" and 100% the work of God, aka GRACE.
---christan on 10/2/12


Christian,

Some can recognise that prophets prophesy the limited particular future (e.g. your example in Isaiah 46:8-11) and the general (e.g. v.13).

Rather than call someone's ideas "perverted", you might demonstrate some intellectual honesty by attempting to show HOW the verses Scott and I have quoted do not show God changing his mind. Plain reading of the text says that God did change his mind.

Why? Because that's what people who love you do - they accommodate your desires. My God is big enough and unselfish enough to be able to do that. What about yours? Or are you still a slave and not a son of God? Don't forget what Jesus said, "Ask anything in my name and..."
---Marc on 10/2/12


MarkV,

Ripping 1 Cor1:18 from its context constitutes a poor argument. Put it back in place and read what Paul was talking about and, hopefully, you won't view it through your Calvinist glasses.

God is our Father. You say that our Father REFUSES to save his children when he could. That, Mark, is a doctrine of the devil. Not even an earthly father thinks and acts like that. If God is love, tell me which part of your theology here demonstrates on a common-sense level the love of God.

Your theology contradicts Scripture, for it plainly says God wants all to be saved, but you say he doesn't. At best, you have a schizoid "God" who wants all to be saved but, at the same time, doesn't want all to be saved.
---Marc on 10/2/12


Scott, you used Jonah 3:10 "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way, and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them, and he did it not." to justify that God does not know what's going to happen?

Now, reconcile your perverted thoughts with the following:

"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." Isaiah 46:10,11

God's not fickle, you are!
---christan on 10/2/12


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"God changes his mind...?" Christan

Jonah 1:1, 3:10-

"Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me."

"When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion ["repented of the evil"- KJV, ESV, RSV] and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened."
---scott on 10/2/12


"God changes his mind and knew something he previously didn't." Marc

And you seriously got this from the Holy Bible? Let's see if some verses confirms your "wishful" thinking.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7, "the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it." Isaiah 46:11, "...and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" Daniel 4:35

Do these verses sound like "your god who changes his mind"? Far be from it, not my God of the Bible.
---christan on 10/2/12


Phil: "Only a Jew under the teaching and leadership of the Twelve apostles can be considered Christians."

So, are we to conclude from that that you do not consider yourself a Christian?


---jerry6593 on 10/2/12


Marc, you answer great on many answers. I wanted you to know I respect your view. You asked,
"You believe that God COULD save everyone but he WON'T. Is that true, and if so, would you mind writing the previous sentence out...?"
Yes, it is true. Since God is Almighty God, He could save everyone. Sinful man or satan cannot hold a candle to God. That He saves some, is a miracle in itself, since we all deserve death for rebelling against God.
Third, You are anxious with a lot of questions, but don't overlook any part of Scripture. I gave you a passage (1 Cor. 1:18), wrote it down for you, and you had no answer to it. Maybe because the passage does not comply with what you belief's but lets take one passage at a time.
---Mark_V. on 10/2/12


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MarkV et al,

1. "And the ANGEL of YHWH said, "for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your only son from ME." (Gen. 22:12)

2. 'So YHWH relented [i.e. changed his mind] from the harm which he said he WOULD do to his people.' (Ex 32:14)

3. "Therefore he said that he would destroy them, had not Moses his chosen one stood before him in the breach, to turn away his wrath lest he destroy them.' (Ps 106:23)

God changes his mind and knew something he previously didn't. Therefore, quite reasonably, I can say FROM SCRIPTURE God is not the pagan, Aristotelian omniscient being that many Calvinists believe him to be but YHWH of the Bible.
---Marc on 10/1/12


MarkV,

I'm not quite sure I understand your theology/soteriology, so correct me if I'm wrong.

You believe that God COULD save everyone but he WON'T. Is that true, and if so, would you mind writing the previous sentence out so there is no misunderstanding?
---Marc on 10/1/12


Acts 15:15_19 "And to this agree the words of the prophets, as it is written,
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down, and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:"
---Nana on 10/1/12


Marc, you said to Christan,

". If we can't choose God's offer of salvation then God has excluded many when he could have easily included all, if it's all down to his will."

Your first part is correct. God has excluded many when He could have easily included all. Here, I'll help you, because it is not just one passage but thousands that speak about those who will perish,

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us, who are being saved, it is the power of God" (1 Cor. 1:18).
There is a group of people who are perishing. And the Cross to them is foolishness.
Don't you believe if Almighty God wanted to save everyone, I'm talking Almighty, He could?
---Mark_V. on 10/1/12


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Marc 2: God is not only Omnipotent, but He is also Omniscient, knowing all?" Stop to think Marc. If people have a free will, to accept Him or reject Him, that He would not know who His children are going to be until they chose Him or rejected Him, which would mean God is gaining knowledge as time goes by. That He is not all knowing. Don't you see your dilemma?
"That means that in order for you to believe what you belief in, you have to strip God of His Omniscience."

But God is the same, yesterday, today and forever. His character, nature, and attributes never change. From before the foundation of the world, He knew who His children were going to be. You know why? Because He chose them.
---Mark_V. on 10/1/12


you cannot follow the Lord without first repenting of your former sinful life, and through the outward expression of baptism becoming a new person in the Lord. The Lord Jesus is Lord of the sabbath day. The Lord Jesus is also an intercessor for Believers. As high priest working on our behalf with the Father in heaven. To follow the Lord Jesus you would obey the sabbath command. The Lord asked why do you call me Lord and do not do as I say? To do as the Lord asks is to follow his 10 laws and follow the examples the Lord left his Believers from the written word of God. Follow him as he obeyed the Father in all things.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/30/12


Anyone claiming to be a true, Orthodox Christian should do likewise.
---jerry6593 on 9/29/12

In the strictist sense, you are correct on this matter.

Paul never referred to the body of Christ as "christians".

It was the Jewish believers who, in derision and mockery, were called "Christians". Ac 26:28 1Pt 4:16

The body of Christ is never identified as "Christian" in the scriptures.

It is misappropriated, used out of context continually by many, if not most of Christendom.

Only a Jew under the teaching and leadership of the Twelve apostles can be considered Christians.

Which is very satisfying to me.
---Phil on 9/30/12


Christian,

You didn't really respond to the dilemma I posed re Calvin's salvation plan. If we can't choose God's offer of salvation then God has excluded many when he could have easily included all, if it's all down to his will. Scripture says God wants all to be saved, yet according to you he only draws some because he only wants some? Christian, your soteriology contradicts Scripture, not mine.

Don't cherry-pick and isolate one verse from its context. John 6:44 is part of a much larger passage. Note v.45: Jesus quotes from the OT, saying people HEAR and LEARN from the Father. From where and how? From the Scriptures. That's what draws people to Jesus. Note also John 5:39, 46-47. Re v.65, refers back to v.44-45.
---Marc on 9/30/12


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the hateful proposition that God could choose someone but won't.---Marc on 9/28/12

I do not know who Calvin is, but I do know the Potter.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Now, you may say otherwise, that God is not going to be Saviour of all men.

Then you would be contradicting Him, and not me.

God will save all men, in His timing, during the ages, each in his own class.

1C 15:23 and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ,

afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,

then--the end,

when he may deliver up the reign to God.
---Phil on 9/30/12


Marc, you are in unbelief of what Jesus declared in John 6:44, accusing Calvin of something that Christ declared to be the Truth and that's, "Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:65

Even after reading these verses, you tell me you can reconcile that the man still has the "free-will" to choose Christ? Then you are indeed in unbelief of the Word of God, who's Jesus Christ. And this seriously gives prove that what Christ declared in John 6:44 and 65 to be Truth.

And please don't go round accusing Calvin when in truth you are accusing Christ to be a liar about how one goes to Him. That's hypocrisy!
---christan on 9/29/12


Jesus, the Apostles, and ALL the disciples of the Bible kept the seventh-day Sabbath. Anyone claiming to be a true, Orthodox Christian should do likewise.




---jerry6593 on 9/29/12


Galatians 6:10 "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith."

Luke 6:35_36 "But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again, and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful."

Why "do good unto all men", " love ye your enemies"?

Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

critter spends his days separating men into bone piles, how pitiful!
---Nana on 9/28/12


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Christian,

Looks like you've picked up a bit of that contagion Calvinism. Calvin's take on Scripture establishes the hateful proposition that God could choose someone but won't. Doesn't sound like the God in Jesus that I know from Scripture. Sounds more and more like Allah from the Koran, the other "God".

I have no idea how you can reconcile the unreconciliable of an all-loving God who WILL NOT choose whom he could choose. Seems like patent irrationality to me. But then again, what would I know?!
---Marc on 9/28/12


Ruben, please do not tip toe around what Christ declared in John 6:44, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." and 65 "Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

I do not deny what Christ said in John 5:40, but after reading John 6:44,65 - you cannot say that the man has a choice to choose. What I reject is your understanding not the Scriptures. What was said by Christ in John 5:40 is action specific and not choice specific. And so do the other verses in the Bible.
---christan on 9/28/12


Family, got to say wow! This been a very hard feel weeks,been bk n fortheir to my doctor, she is great,n times there are,my body feels awfull,and then the lord will just send a person who might say hello and just little things,touch my heart, I put this.like when we are little children, was talking to another neighbor always very ill,and he just then 75,lord bless, he walks when he can,I don't go out much,but when I do a little, feel.good by the few time I get bk,thank God for keep me safe. The lord,no matter what it looks like,how I may feel,or what others say, he is good,his way is sweet,tested n tried! Be blessed.
---ELENA on 9/28/12


Ruben, that's how you "interpret" John 5:40? There's no contradiction when Christ declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:" in John 6:44. You're in confusion and deception about "free-will".

It must be understood that the man's refusal to go to Christ for life is simply because the Father did not draw him.


---christan on 9/26/12

The very next verse (45) tells us who are the ones the Father draws "Therefore everyone who has heard and learned" and back to Jhn 5:40 Jesus says but "You" refuse, nothing about the Father had something to do with it, you are adding what is not there, very dangerous!!
---Ruben on 9/28/12


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Gordon, who's defending sin? It's because of sin that we were all destined for eternal death. Until God showed mercy and grace to His beloved elect.

The only time the Christian becomes Holy is when his dead spirit is made alive by the Spirit of God - that's why only the spirit cannot sin! Certainly not the flesh.

But you and FOC propagate that it's possible for one to walk "undefiled" and Holy in the flesh. If you can actually do that, there's no reason for you to return to the dust. But you most definitely are going back to the dust. Why? The flesh has been cursed and there's nothing you can do to be "undefiled" and Holy before God. Sad to say, your doctrine is rooted in the spirit of the Pharisees.
---christan on 9/28/12


cristan, We are not righteous, that is, not until we are Born Again from Above. Then, afterwards we walk in HIS Ways and are become "undefiled". When we are renewed in YAHUSHUA (JESUS CHRIST) we don't remain "unrighteous". GOD would not command us to "...be ye holy as I AM Holy!" if it weren't possible to be so, by HIS Spirit's Power and Presence in our lives. To sit there and quote the Verse about "there is none righteous" as to defend the excuse to remain in sin is nothing short of stripping of the complete picture of what GOD expects from HIS people. HOLINESS.
---Gordon on 9/28/12


FOC, you said "you have stated "can never walk" when the verse states "who walk"!!" quoting Psalm 119:1. The verse is action specific and not choice.

If anyone who's changing words from the Scripture, it's you. You deny that you're not a "defiled" man even though Scripture says otherwise that no one is sinless, save Jesus Christ. So, if none is sinless - how is it you're an "undefiled"?

Again, how does a "defiled" (sinner) becomes an "undefiled"? What Psalm 119:1 says that only an "undefiled" man can walk in the law of the Lord, NOT A DEFILED MAN. This may be news to you but all man are "defiled"!
---christan on 9/27/12



Are you excluded from this judgement? And you call me a liar? I think the Bible calls you a liar, not I.


because you have a verse that appears to say something different because you lack the ability to rightly divide truth you then deliberately contorted Psalms 119:1 to fit another verse and rewrote it to say the complete opposite!!

You are the liar. I have read Gods word as it is written. You have read Gods word determined it was written incorrectly and maligned it by rewriting what was written. That makes you the liar and you have another spirit outside of God. The Apostles and God warned of changing the written word which you have done, not I.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/27/12


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FOC - this is what Psalm 119:1 of KJV says, "Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord."

Do you dare say that you are an "undefiled" or any of Adam's descendants are "undefiled"? Seriously? Even after Scriptures declares,

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable, there is none that doeth good, no, not one." Romans 3:10-12

Are you excluded from this judgement? And you call me a liar? I think the Bible calls you a liar, not I.
---christan on 9/27/12


"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:16
---christan on 9/27/12

Do not forget THE NEXT VERSE:

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

So although we are justified by faith we CONTINUE TO KEEP THE LAW ortherwise we would be found sinners

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
---francis on 9/27/12


If one can walk like Christ, then there was no reason for Him to die at Calvary for the sins of His people. The context of Psalm 119:1 simply tells us that we are defiled and can never walk in the law of God. That's why Christ had to come.

why do you lie!! the verse does not contain the word defiled!! the verse states undefiled.

you have stated "can never walk" when the verse states "who walk"!!

you deliberately malign Psalms 119:1 to say the exact opposite of what is written you have another spirit not the Lords!!

Psalms 119:1
Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/27/12


cristan, Nothing can stop GOD from loving us. But, HIS Love towards HIS people is not the same thing as Salvation itself. For, GOD also loves people who are not saved (JOHN 3:16). HE is willing that none perish. So, GOD's Love for people bears no assurance that one is saved, or that they will remain saved. No one can pluck a Believer out of GOD's Hands, but, a Believer can choose to leave GOD. And some do because of the lust for pleasurable sin or idolatry. By HIS Love HE offers Salvation to the lost. And, likewise, by HIS Love HE enables the Believers to remain saved IF they want to continue living for HIM. Everyday presents a choice. Each day we can choose to follow GOD, or, we can choose to ignore HIM and HIS demand for Obedience to HIM.
---Gordon on 9/27/12


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Obeying God's law is most definitely not going to get one into His Kingdom. It's only FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST that's the way.

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Galatians 2:16

If one can walk like Christ, then there was no reason for Him to die at Calvary for the sins of His people. The context of Psalm 119:1 simply tells us that we are defiled and can never walk in the law of God. That's why Christ had to come.
---christan on 9/27/12


some of these false ministers and teachers will teach you all you have to do is love (like the John Lennon song) and profess his name and your all set. If you want to follow Jesus then he will ask you why do call me Lord and not do as I say?? If you want to call the Lord Jesus your Lord you obey him as he obeyed the Father, and you follow gods 10 holy laws, and the examples he left us by the word of God, and do as he asks by coming out of babylon which is the world, its ways and its traditions.

Psalm 119:1 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
---Follower_of_Christ on 9/26/12


O Ruben, that's how you "interpret" John 5:40? There's no contradiction when Christ declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." in John 6:44. You're in confusion and deception about "free-will".

It must be understood that the man's refusal to go to Christ for life is simply because the Father did not draw him. Therefore his refusal is merely the cause and effect of not being drawn by the Father, that's because he's dead in sins and trespasses.

The same is then said of the man who goes to Christ for life. The cause and effect is the Father has drawn him to His Son. So you see, this exalts God 100% and the man 0%.
---christan on 9/26/12


My path to following Jesus is contained in this verse:

John 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keep them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him".

Two easy steps, learn the commandments of Jesus and do them. What are the commandments of Jesus?

Well, I always start with these and they usually weed out most of the tares:

Matt 5:3-11 "Blessed are the poor in spirit...blessed are those that mourn...blessed are the meek...blessed are the those who hunger and thirst for righteousness..."
---Mark_Eaton on 9/26/12


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Outside of being drawn and given to Christ by the Father, no one goes to Christ by their own ability. According to the Scriptures, it's impossible.
---christan on 9/26/12

Christian,

"The Scriptures you study give witness about me. But but you refuse to come to me and receive life." (Jhn 5:40)

"Confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord. Believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. Then you will be saved." (romans 10:9-11)

According to scripture we have to ability to come and confess.

Tell me Christian how did the Father draw you to him, since he could not do it?
---Ruben on 9/26/12


"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which He hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

"And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."
John 6:39,44,65

Outside of being drawn and given to Christ by the Father, no one goes to Christ by their own ability. According to the Scriptures, it's impossible.
---christan on 9/26/12


Francis: Adding to your list:


Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


1Jn 2:3,4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


---jerry6593 on 9/26/12


To be a follower of Christ is to GENUINELY love God with all your mind, heart and soul, and to love others - neighbors, strangers, and enemies. Love - genuine love as in the verb form - is the ultimate command Jesus spoke of. All the other commandments hang upon this one word. It is the only word that is your ticket to heaven.

Also, do an online KJV bible search for "one another", "each other", "encourag", and "comfort" to learn how to grow, mature, and minister in Christ.

And ,since we are living in periless times, terror has gripped the world and love has waxed cold, we must fellowship on a daily basis as commanded in scripture so we may stay on the path toward the Kingdom of God.
---Steveng on 9/25/12


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Very simple way to ensure that you are following Jesus and not man:

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Revelation 12:17 the remnant ..which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

It a church is having issues with obedience to the law and commandments of God, or having issues with the testimonies, it is not the real deal
---francis on 9/23/12


i think you have two classes of believers: followers and disciples.
i would rather be a disciple and do as "the master" does.
---chip on 9/23/12


Following the indwelling Holy Spirit is following Jesus. It will always lead to acting out of LOVE, not for REWARD.
---Geraldine on 9/22/12


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