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Many Different Gospels

Let's continue with "Are There Two Gospels"?

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 ---christan on 9/26/12
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The Kingdom of God is the only gospel

Mark 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Mark 10:15
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
---Follower_of_Christ on 10/9/12


---kathr4453 on 10/8/12 "Had they received Jesus as King right then, there would be NO CROSS, NO SHED BLOOD, NO FROGIVNESS OF SIN whatso ever."

You are partially correct.

Forgiveness and pardon is issued by the executive. Had they believed His testimony, instead of murdering Him, they would have the King's pardon. It would have been conditional. See Matthew 5-7.

Dt 26:18 And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that [thou] shouldest keep all his commandments,
And to make thee high above all nations which he hath made, in praise, and in name, and in honour, and that thou mayest be an holy people unto the LORD thy God, as he hath spoken.
---Phil on 10/9/12


---kathr4453 on 10/9/12

Ro 11:1 . I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.
Ro 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

In Christ, according to Paul's evangel only, all are equal, neither Jew nor Gentile.

2C 5:16 . Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.

The Twelve began preaching the Kingdom on earth, their rulership over the nations, "Christ after the flesh".

Paul's revelations from the risen Christ changed the terms.
---Phil on 10/9/12


MarkV is a heretic because he truns every discussion into the unbiblical double predestination view of no one having free will.
---kathr4453 on 10/9/12


Paul states at the end of Philippians 3, those who mind earthly things are enemies of the CROSS

Now the Earthly Kingdom was in fact an earthly thing, and the earthly Kingdom that Michael_e says the other apostles preached was in fact enemies of the Cross, just like Paul stated again in Galatians.

And michael_e wants us to believe Jesus sanctioned the other apostles to preach a Gospel that was at EMNITY with the Cross. This who are enemies of the CROSS are in fact enemies of Christ. Yet, we are suppose to believe Jesus wanted this emnity between these two groups.

Talk about anti-Semitic....and satanic to the core. WOW! Michael_e and Phil want to blame God here making enemies between Jew and Gentile. VOMIT! PUKE! GAG!
---kathr4453 on 10/9/12




I see the mods are still not posting everything we throw out there.

Pauls reason if any for having confidence in the flesh.

Circumcision (Jew)
Pharisee (teacher of the law)
Persecuting the church (which stood for righteousness by faith and not the law)
Blameless (obedience to the law)

He counted all those things as HE quotes "as dung" to "win" Christ. In other words as long as he was counting on any of those things to make him righteous in Gods eyes, he was missing out of the righteousness that comes from God by grace. You cannot mix the law and grace. Any entire epistle was dedicated to this very topic (Galatians)
---JackB on 10/9/12


He couldn't ordain the Church if you have free will.
---Mark_V. on 10/9/12

So, MarkV, are you suggesting the Church was not for-ordained?

Just as the Church was for-ordained, so is the Earthly Kingdom.

However it's man's free will that will decide WHO will enter into each.

Thosw who receive Him, for one, and those who do not take the mark of the beast for the other.

God does not force anyone to hell, anymore than He will forced anyone to take the Mark.

However we are not discussing FREE WILLY here...
---kathr4453 on 10/9/12


While the entire Bible was inspired by God for our benefit, it is not all written to the same people. God spoke different things to different people at different times. Every time it was according to his two-fold purpose.

The key to understanding the Bible lies with our ability to discern what is written to us and what is not. This is what is meant by right division of the Bible.
Rom.15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
---michael_e on 10/9/12


Kathr, you do have a way with much words and really get into a mess as Phil indicated, here you say,

"Praise God HE ALREADY planned according to HIS WILL that Jesus would in fact go to the Cross so all these covenants including the Church would be fulfilled just as HE FORORDAINED."

And you believe in free will. How does your free will fit into your statement that God planned according to His will that Christ would go to the cross so that all covenants would be fulfilled including the "Church" which is "the called out" "the believers, Just as He ordained it? "If He ordained it, what happen to your free will?" He couldn't ordain the Church if you have free will.
---Mark_V. on 10/9/12


michael_e, You need to read 2 Corinthians 3.

And not only that you have no Holy Spirit inside you, by your own admission. You did say WE JEWS are Born Again of the Spirit and you Gentiles are not...correct.

That the church is only forgiven, but no NEW LIFE as a result of being Born Again of the Spirit of the Life of Christ. You also deny that you are being changed from Glory to Glory by the Spirit of the LORD...2 Corinthians 3...earthlings are not changed from GLORY TO GLORY .

I'm afraid you michael_e are blending up who knows what and snorting it.

Besides michael_e, no prophecy in the OT ever said Jesus would be King until after his death and resurrection.

You don't even know what GLORIFIED means!
---kathr4453 on 10/9/12




---kathr4453 on 10/8/12
Since you don't understand right division,you will have to back and read 2 Cor 4:3.
Maybe study Paul's gospel more.
Until then you will continue to wallow in the blenderized mess you have got yourself into.
---michael_e on 10/8/12


There is only ONE gospel!

Ga1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Ga1:7 Which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

The true Gospel is Salvation by Grace through Jesus Christ!

Without Christ nothing else matters! Without grace none of us would be saved!
---trey on 10/8/12


I see from much of the writings here most have no idea which gospel they themselves are trying to promote!! Did you know a gospel is a message? Do you understand the only message Christ and Apostles taught was the soon coming Kingdom of God? By proclaiming a gospel of love, blood, grace, faith, salvation, baptism, or any other gospel you are preaching against the Lord. The entire OT, every prophet spoke of Gods Kingdom, and more than 100 verses in NT speak of the government of God. The law giver is God and those who are in the spirit obey by the power of his spirit, and knowledge of Gods government is by that spirit working in the minds of those who Believe and the Lords word of his Kingdom to come endures forever 1 Peter 1:25.
---Follower_of_Christ on 10/8/12


//Had all Israel repented and rallied unto their Messiah, our lives would be much different.//
Amen Phil
Had all Israel repented, there would not have been no need of the mystery, that was revealed to only Paul.
---michael_e on 10/8/12

Total ignorance! Had they received Jesus as King right then, there would be NO CROSS, NO SHED BLOOD, NO FROGIVNESS OF SIN whatso ever.

And further more, it is the resurrected Glorified Christ who will be King.

No fulfilled covenants, no New Covenant, no fulfilling of the Everlasting Covenant.


Praise God HE ALREADY planned according to HIS WILL that Jesus would in fact go to the Cross so all these covenants including the Church would be fulfilled just as HE FORORDAINED.
---kathr4453 on 10/8/12


No phil, but blasphming the Holy Spirit who you accuse of preached an ACCURSED Gopspel in Acts 1 through the Apostles, (Read Galatians 1) Phil is something you need to get on your knees and REPENT OF!!!

You don't mind ramming Bullinger's false dispensational garbage down our throats do you Phil.

HE came up with that, Just as Joseph Smith is credited with Mormonism. Not everyone here is ignorant of that fact. YOU are led my the doctrine of MAN!
---kathr4453 on 10/8/12


//Had all Israel repented and rallied unto their Messiah, our lives would be much different.//
Amen Phil
Had all Israel repented, there would not have been no need of the mystery, that was revealed to only Paul.
---michael_e on 10/8/12


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---kathr4453 on 10/6/12 "At least Ironside and all dispensationalists who agree with Ironside know what covenant the Church belongs to."

I see, being correct is based upon agreeing with what men say, and not the Writings.

Distrust of men, as well as oneself, leads to understanding of Him.

2C 10:12 For we are not daring to judge ourselves by, or compare ourselves with, any who are commending themselves. But they, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves with themselves, do not understand.

Appealing to the flesh of men avails little.
---Phil on 10/8/12


Had all Israel repented and rallied unto their Messiah, our lives would be much different.

Dn 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people.

There is coming a time when God will see His declaration fulfilled.

2Pt 3:9 . The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
---Phil on 10/8/12


Aren't you glad you were grafted in???
---kathr4453 on 10/7/12
You think you are grafted into Israel?
Paul was first in the BoC. Not into Israel. Very simple.
1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

1Cor 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
---michael_e on 10/8/12


Christan, great blog, I can see your blog question has put four people at odds with each other, Jack B, Kathr alway preaching their own free will to receive salvation, because God cannot interfer with their choice, and francis and Follower preaching the law of works for salvation. By the way their own works of righteousness. They have turned the Grace of God upside down, and preach works of righteousness. I wonder where this will end? Next thing you will hear are accusations and name calling.
Michael E has done great, he has stayed away from self righteous works.
---Mark_V. on 10/8/12


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FoC, your argument isnt with me. Those were the words Paul used. They are not mine. Maybe you should ask God why He led Paul to use them.
---JackB on 10/7/12


16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you (GENTILES)which were afar off, and to them (JEWS)that were nigh.

18 For through him WE BOTH have access by one Spirit unto the Father

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God,

20
And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone,


michael_e, can you read ALL that chapter, and not take one verse out of context. Paul no way says anything what you are saying.

Aren't you glad you were grafted in???
---kathr4453 on 10/7/12


//Bullengers vs Ironside, Schafer, Newell//
Don't know these guys,but I would like to introduce you to your Apostle Paul.
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh(by covenants?? no) by the blood of Christ

Twist it if you want but it says what it says.
---michael_e on 10/7/12



If you are still trying to gain access into Gods kingdom by following His laws, you have not yet won Christ.


If you still disobey now that you know truth you have not been converted to spiritual knowledge which is why you believe you need to "win Christ" when holy scripture states salvation is a gift. gifts or are given, believe you win Christ you have works and your theory has you winning salvation from your efforts.

salvation is a gift from God who has mercy by the shed blood of Christ who reconciles Believers from past sins. Believers responsibility to pray and overcome future sin and Believers can because the Lord is our high priest and mediator for when we slip and fall and stumble.
---Follower_of_Christ on 10/7/12


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Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision,.. and have no confidence in the flesh.

Philippians 3:4
Philippians 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, an Hebrew of the Hebrews,

Philippians 3:6

Philippians 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

This context surely deals with Paul's life as a Hebrew, a pharisee, and his circumcision. Not at all about the ten commandments


1 Corinthians 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
---francis on 10/7/12


My favorite passage for legalistic Christians:

Phillipians 3:4-7

Paul,as much as he considered himself a law abiding man, had to consider his own accomplishments as "dung" to win Christ.

His message applies to us today! If you are still trying to gain access into Gods kingdom by following His laws, you have not yet won Christ.

You must first admit defeat before you can be saved! Lots here havent come to the realization that you have BLOWN your chance at being self-righteous, which is why you judge according to law and not according to faith.
---JackB on 10/7/12


michael_e, Yes I couldn't find Bullingerism or Bullinger in scripture either. Yet, Ironside is also a dispensationalist. So, it's Bullengers vs Ironside, Schafer, Newell and many many others. Hummm, and you know for a fact Bullingers is correct?

You can't prove it by scripture michael_e.

At least Ironside and all dispensationalists who agree with Ironside know what covenant the Church belongs to.

Your doctrine has no more teeth than Mormonism. That was a secret gospel too...based solely on secrets given to Joseph Smith.
---kathr4453 on 10/6/12


there are many false gospels not just one: gospels of faith, grace, salvation, baptism, and it looks like some have a gospel of blood too, hard to tell from some of the posts here! all these gospels are man made, devised of men by the influence of the wrong spirit, and most cannot escape its grasp. The Lord was a messenger of only one gospel the coming Kingdom of God. Any other gospel is false. holy scripture proves this one gospel all through OT prophecy and NT parables. Christianity today is not following the Lord Jesus. You cannot follow the Lord if you are talking about another gospel and none of these "gospels" are taught in NT, the Lord only spoke of one gospel and that is the coming Kingdom of God.
---Follower_of_Christ on 10/6/12


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Kathr, I have searched thru Paul's writings to see if he mentions Ironsides, couldn't find anything.
But I did find the dispensation of the Gospel the ascended Christ revealed to only Paul.
I have to take Paul's writings over Ironsides.

Go back and study 2Tim 2:15

1 Cor 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, (a dispensation of the gospel) is committed unto me.

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of (the dispensation of the grace of God) which is given me to you-ward
Go back and study 2Tim 2:15

---michael_e on 10/6/12


Phil, but aren't you appealing to Bullinger who made up this false doctrine to begin with in the 1800?

You even went as far as twisting the story of Uzzah.

Now, let me ask you, If your salvation in no way has one thing to do with anything in scripture other than Paul's secret gospel, why then are you using OT scriptures referring to Uzzah under teh Law of Moses...the Mosaic Covenant and then trying to apply that to us?

Make up your mind Phil. AND Uzzah has nothing whatsoever to do with SALVATION. It had to do with the LAW in the proper way God wanted the Ark carried.

Like I said, we don't carry around an ark today. The Mercy seat in in Heaven. Anyone can come BOLDLY that is with CONFIDENCE to the throne of Grace.
---kathr4453 on 10/6/12


---kathr4453 on 10/5/12

It is much easier to calumniate and slur someone than to subtantiate a lost arguement.

Appealing to a man, in this case Ironside, instead of appealing to the word of God with humility, tells much of the spirit that is animating you.

Do not think it unnoticed.

You may sway others to your side through such trickery.

Those who seek truth and love Christ's grace need someone like you to mature in the faith.
---Phil on 10/6/12


H.A.Ironside wrote, Concerning Hyper- Dispensationalism,"I have no hesitancy in saying that its fruits are evil.It has produced a tremendous crop of heresies throughout the length and breadth of this and other lands,divided Christians and wrecked churches and assemblies without number, it has lifted up its votaries in intellectual and spiritual pride to an appalling extent,so that they look with supreme contempt upon Christians who do not accept their peculiar views, and in most instances where it has been long tolerated,it has absolutely throttled Gospel effort at home and sown discord on missionary fields abroad. So true are these things of this system that I have no hesitancy in saying it is an absolutely Satanic perversion of the truth.
---kathr4453 on 10/5/12


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Paul then says, anyone preaching a gospel other than what they accepted, let him be eternally condemned.
---Mark_V. on 10/5/12

Yes, and Paul also states in Galatians the Gospel he presented to them was in fact the same Gospel given to Abraham. The LAW is not of FAITH. We are blessed WITH Faithful Abraham.

It's really a waste of time with these guys. You can show them scripture till the cows come home, and all they say is...Oh that's for THEM...or only this is for us.

Jesus made PEACE through the Blood of the Cross.

And the arrogance that they alone believe "they" rightly divide the word of Truth.
---kathr4453 on 10/5/12


Bro. there are several descriptive titles concerning the Gospel:
1. "the gospel of peace" (Eph. 6:15)
2. "the gospel of Christ" (1 Cor. 9:12).
3. "the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20:24).
4. "the gospel of the kingdom" (Matt. 24:14).
5. "an eternal gospel" (Rev. 14:6).
all descriptive titles pertain to one Gospel, Paul in (Gal. 1:6-9).
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-which is really no gospel at all." Paul then says, anyone preaching a gospel other than what they accepted, let him be eternally condemned.
---Mark_V. on 10/5/12


Kathr, seriously study 2Tim 2:15, if you don't understand it, which you apparently don't, study 2Cor 4:3.
I don't say that to hurt you, but until you can understand that, you will be stuck in a blenderized mess.
---michael_e on 10/5/12


The procuring of saving faith comes from Christ, and it is His faith that saves us, not the promises given to Abraham, the Syrian.
phil///


Excuse me??? The Syrian?

And I don't believe Jesus needs faith to save anyone. So who would Jesus be putting HIS FAITH in?

The Promise was first stated in Genesis 3:15, and more fully revealed to Abraham. That Covenent is the Evrlasting Covenant, from before the foundation of the World. That Covenant is between God the Word and the Holy Spirit...THAT Covenant also includes those chosen IN CHRIST before the foundation of the World, also known as the Church.

Joseph Smith doctrine is also absent from the Everlasting Covenant, making it a false gospel just as yours is.
---kathr4453 on 10/5/12


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///Or are you saying YOUR BLOOD is "better" than the Blood of the EVERLASTING COVENANT or different? Or superior?
Wow, so is this some "other blood" you are saved by?//

Try reading again, it's Christs blood.
But, now in Christ Jesus we are made nigh, not by covenants, but by the BLOOD OF CHRIST. By the finished work of the Cross, we are now in a greater relationship than covenants, we are joint-heirs with Christ, Romans 8:14,17
---michael_e on 10/5/12


---kathr4453 on 10/5/12

There is no Greek word in the Holy Writings that denotes "Everlasting". This word has been destructive of faith from the time of its insertion into the Versions.

Words like eternal, everlasting, for ever and ever, and eternity do not exist in God's Word.

These words are false and only the religious and the theologian subscribe to their validity.

Anyone with apptitude in the Greek language knows that the word aion [G165] and its derivatives do not imply endlessness.

Your arguements are flawed and unsupportable, therefore moot.

Until a truth-seeker apprehends this, much learning is in vain.
---Phil on 10/5/12


Michael_e, " THE BLOOD of the Everlasting Covenant from before the Foundation of the World, the one also that Jesus was raised through the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant spoken in Hebrews 13:20-21 YOU SAY IS NOT in any way the SAME BLOOD spoken of in Ephesians by Paul? Or are you saying YOUR BLOOD is "better" than the Blood of the EVERLASTING COVENANT or different? Or superior?

Wow, so is this some "other blood" you are saved by?

michael_e, I read where your hyper-dispensation doctrine believes that, and I couldn't believe my eyes. That's why it's called the doctrine of satan...

Now I know why.

Jesus died and shed His Blood once and for all. You're GRAFTED INTO the Everlasting Covenant.
---kathr4453 on 10/5/12


---kathr4453 on 10/4/12
PAUL showing Gentiles how their salvation is from those promises given to Abraham.

Our salvation is not based upon anything but the shed blood of Jesus.

Faith is the element needed to please God, and to appropriate grace. Abraham is the father of faith.

The procuring of saving faith comes from Christ, and it is His faith that saves us, not the promises given to Abraham, the Syrian.

Ga 3:29 Now if you are Christ's, consequently you are of Abraham's seed, enjoyers of the allotment according to the promise.

It is the consequence of being in Christ, not being in Abraham, that we are heirs and sons.
---Phil on 10/5/12


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---kathr4453 on 10/4/12

The ability to correctly divide the word of truth and be qualified in service to God is not commonplace. In the ecclesia of God, the absense of this skill has rendered the body bound and useless.

It is not likely you will ever find yourself in agreement with those who know how to partition the word correctly.

If you have all the truth and knowledge of God in yourself, you need not spar with dispensationalists. Just state your case and supply evidence, and let the spirit do the rest.
---Phil on 10/5/12


//What covenent then michael_e does the Church come under?//
None
Eph 2:12 is plain. Our Gentile forefathers were strangers from the covenants of Promise, without hope and without God in this world. But, now in Christ Jesus we are made nigh, not by covenants, but by the Blood of Christ. By the finished work of the Cross, we are now in a greater relationship than covenants, we are joint-heirs with Christ, Romans 8:14,17. The covenants were directed to the nation of Israel. In order for the covenants to be fulfilled, Christ had to accomplish the atonement, His sacrifice of Himself. But, by His Grace that was extended beyond the covenants, and opened salvation to the whole race, No wonder it can only be appropriated by Faith.
---michael_e on 10/4/12


--Law and grace don't mix.
michael_e on 10/4/12

No and the flesh and the spirit don't mix. The flesh us under LAW, the Spirit inlawed to Christ.

Why is Paul preaching a false Gospel ( you say it's false) to Gentiles, telling them they are not under the Law of Moses, but are of the Faith of Abraham, who is ABOVE( Get it??) AND FREE( Get it??) vs bondage to the Law.

What covenent then michael_e does the Church come under?


The Abrahamic Covenant is the Everlasting Covenant, and the Everlasting Covenant is spoken in Hebrews 13:20-21 regarding the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

God does not deal with ANYONE apart from His Covenants. Including the Church.

Check out 2 Corinthians 3
---kathr4453 on 10/4/12


//How do you explain that away michael_e?
---kathr4453 on 10/4/12//
Oil and water don't mix Law and grace don't mix.
Study 2Tim 2:15, if you don't understand that check 2Cor 4:3
---michael_e on 10/4/12


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Gal. 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
---michael_e on 10/4/12


This is what qualified Paul to be an Apostle. But we do know Paul spent 14 years on the back side of a mountain as God showed him how the OT was fulfilled in the New and the NT is revealed in the Old. Paul through out his letters quoted OT many times. I love Galatians and PAUL showing Gentiles how their salvation is from those promises given to Abraham, and if they are Christ's they are Abraham's Seed, and heirs according to promise. The SEED is Christ.

How do you explain that away michael_e?
---kathr4453 on 10/4/12


There are many Gospels recorded, only one for today .
1Cor 15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand,
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed(plus nothing) in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Gal. 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
---michael_e on 10/4/12


Phil, you're living prove that there's indeed another gospel outside of the Holy Scriptures. Eg:

phil: "The Apostles never left Jerusalem."
Yet we have the complete Bible, from the apostles.

phil: "Holy Spirit is the Recorder, not me.
Wrong, the prophets and apostles wrote the Scripture. Paul declared, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God", meaning, the authors were ALL born of the Spirit of God, who guided them.

phil: "There was a reason why God called Saul, Apostle to the Gentiles, after the Jews stoned Stephen."
Reason? Paul's an elect of God chosen unconditionally and no mentioned of because of the stoning of Stephen, read Acts 9.
---christan on 10/2/12


Matt 16:21-22, Luke 18:33-34, and John 20:9 say during Christ's earthly ministry, the twelve didn't know Jesus Christ was going to die and rise from the dead. Even though Christ told them this on several occasions, it was hidden from them by God.

Paul received the gospel of grace by direct revelation from the Lord. He was appointed apostle of the Gentiles to reveal mysteries previously kept hidden. One was, the mystery of the gospel. Paul writes in Eph 6:18-20 "Praying always ... for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel for which I am an ambassador in bonds ...." Paul's gospel had been a mystery, not been known to anyone before God revealed it to him.
---michael_e on 10/2/12


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Scott1 is correct. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgivness of sin.

The blood of bulls and goats only covered sin, it did not forgive sin.

Peter states too that we were bought/purchased with the precious blood of Christ.
---kathr4453 on 10/1/12


//Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.'"//
What sins? You just murdered your messiah. No sacrifice there.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
That's sacrifice
Peter never preached this
---michael_e on 10/1/12


Peter never mentions sacrifice, or propitiation, or the blood of Jesus Christ.
micheal_e or Phil

Yes Peter preached sacrifice, resurrection, blood see Acts Ch. 2
vs 23 "This man was handed over to you by Gods deliberate plan and foreknowledge, and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death (SACRIFICE, propitiation is sacrifice atonement) by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death (Resurrection).
vs 38 "'Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.'" To a hebrew repeatance is only possible by blood. (sacrifice)
---Scott1 on 10/1/12


After 400yrs silence in Gods plan with Israel, John the Baptist preached the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Mark 1:4).

The message was the promised kingdom to Israel and the Messiah. Those who believed accepted his baptism, and unbelievers of Gods promises rejected his testimony of faith.

The result of accepting Johns baptism was remission of sins and righteousness by obedience of faith. Jesus demonstrated this by taking part in the baptism, although John declared he didnt need it:

But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness... Matt 3:14-15
---michael_e on 10/1/12


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BUT IN ISAAC will they seed be called.
---kathr4453 on 10/1/12

YLT Ro 11:2 God did not cast away His people whom He knew before, have ye not known--in Elijah--what the Writing saith? how he doth plead with God concerning Israel, saying,

YLT Ro 11:5 So then also in the present time a remnant according to the choice of grace there hath been,

YLT Ro 11:7 What then? What Israel doth seek after, this it did not obtain, and the chosen did obtain, and the rest were hardened,

They will not be sharing in the celestial allotment of those who followed Paul's teaching.

They will be resurrected to age-lasting life, on the earth, to rule and reign, for the healing of the nations.
---Phil on 10/1/12


And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us. Deut 6:25

For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. Romans 10:5---michael_e on 10/1/12

Well, we have THEIR righteousness and the righteousness of the Law, but neither is the IMPUTED Righteousness of Christ.

And by the keeping of the LAW no flesh will be JUSTIFIED.

Justification is by FAITH ALONE.

OT Saints were called the JUST, as was Abel, Noah, and so on. They had no LAW to keep. Hebrews 11 tells us FAITH was from the beginning and the means of the ONLY JUSTIFICATION leading to ETERNAL LIFE!
---kathr4453 on 10/1/12


While Moses was able to have personal communion and conversation with God, he wrote about a righteousness gained from the obedience of faith in the law.

And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us. Deut 6:25

Paul expounds upon the understanding of Moses when he quotes Levi 18:5:

For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. Romans 10:5

This righteousness and the faith that Moses and his followers had of Gods law was not faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Romans 10:2-9).
---michael_e on 10/1/12


Romans 4: 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strong in faith, giving glory to God,

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him,

24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead,

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
---kathr4453 on 10/1/12


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Not just two thousands and thousands. truth is the word is written right before you yet you all choose another doctrine to explain it.

"Christianity"
Passover: Easter, chocolate bunnies, fables based on lies.

The Celebration of Christmas Catholicism, red cape gown, hat, Santa

Autumn Harvest: God Lou representing Irish fables lughnasadh daisy chains, fresh fruits, veg

Birthdays Witch Craft, Astronomy

Selling in Church

Prophesying words over people????

---Carla on 10/1/12


Abraham beloved that He wold have a son, that through His son all nations would be blessed. Abraham knew that this blessing would indeed come from the death of the Son of God

Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
---francis on 9/30/12


michael_e, Romans 4 has nothing whatsoever to do with LAND. In Isaac will thy seed be called.

Also Michael_e, God explains in Galatians re Abraham, and again no mention of LAND or Physical Israel or Jacob. BUT IN ISAAC will they seed be called.

Did you overlook that part?

Do you really NOT understand Romans 4 and Galatians?
---kathr4453 on 10/1/12


It cannot be ignored that Abraham was counted righteous because of his faith in Gods word for a mighty nation, not the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ (Genesis 15:6). Although we now know that Abraham could be justified based upon the then-future propitiatory work of Christ, the message that counted him faithful was the promise of a mighty nation.

As Paul explains, Abraham was strong in faith (Rom 4:20).

And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. Rom 4:21
---michael_e on 9/30/12


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Mt 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mt 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Israel's forgiveness is conditional.

Ours is not.

Ro 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Ro 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Justification is not the Lord's message.
---Phil on 9/30/12


"repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things."---christan on 9/30/12

The Apostles never left Jerusalem.

Ac 8:1 and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Cornelius and the Eunuch are the only Gentiles that the Lord's disciples evangelized.

Ac 11:19 . Now they which were scattered.. preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Holy Spirit is the Recorder, not me.

At some point, the message changed, possibly Act 1:3.

There was a reason why God called Saul, Apostle to the Gentiles, after the Jews stoned Stephen.
---Phil on 9/30/12


THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT GOSPELS:

1, JESUS DIED TO SAVE YOU FROM YOUR SINS
2: JESUS DIED TO SAVE YOU IN YOUR SINS

ONLY ONE IS CORRECT
---francis on 9/30/12


michael_e, Jesus said, to His Desciples before His Crucifiction.

Luke 22:19
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:24
And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.


Was not Paul here also referring to Jesus death and resurrection? Paul telling Gentiles to partake of that OTHER Gospel? ..the one John the Baptist said Behold the LAMB OF GOD which takes away the sin of the world.
---kathr4453 on 9/30/12


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michael e: "He never associates Christ's death with remission of sins."

In Christ's ministry on earth, He taught the apostles about what He came to do. For eg.

In the Last Supper - Matthew 26:28, "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.", Luke wrote in chapter 1:77, "To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins."

Again in Luke 24:47,48 "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things."

Where o where do you get these information of yours?
---christan on 9/30/12


Before our Lord Jesus Christ revealed it to Paul, the other apostles did not know that Jesus Christ's crucifixion was the sacrifice for our sins. In the book of Acts, Peter never mentions sacrifice, or propitiation, or the blood of Jesus Christ. He never associates Christ's death with remission of sins. Our gospel by which we are saved was a mystery revealed by our Lord Jesus Christ to Paul. It was not known by any man, not even the twelve apostles or Satan himself (1 Corinthians 2:7-8).
---michael_e on 9/29/12


When they were filled, he said unto his disciples, Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.
Therefore they gathered them together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above unto them that had eaten.


Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?
When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up?
They say unto him, Twelve.
And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up?
And they said, Seven.

And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/29/12


aka, you say, "Jesus overcame our wages for sin...death. that is the good news. there is only one."

It's true, for it is written in the Holy Bible. Now here comes the difference that's being preached which is either a truth or a lie.

"Jesus died for everyone and it's up to the sinner to decide whether he wants to believe and be saved by Christ." Is this true? Where does it say so in the Scriptures?

Here's what Christ declared, "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, THAT OF ALL WHICH HE HATH GIVEN ME I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but should raise it up again at the last day." John 6:39

What a great difference! One's TRUTH and the other a LIE.
---christan on 9/28/12


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Jesus didn't come preaching about himself. He taugh the gospel, the good news. The gospel that Jesus and the apostles taught was the coming of the Kingdom of God and how to get there. This gospel was even taught to Abraham in the old testament. Jesus and the apostles went around performing miracles to prove that what they were preaching was the truth and always gave glory to God the Father. Jesus even said he couldn't do anything without the Father.

So the gospel is simply the soon to come Kingdom of God.
---Steveng on 9/28/12


phil, like i said, there is one true gospel. who knows how many false ones there are?

but, i think this is referencing something more specific.
---aka on 9/28/12


Ga 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed... unto a different gospel

Ga 1:11 ..that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

For I neither received it of man,
neither was I taught [it],
but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Ga 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me,

God has called us to know Him and His ways. We are inheritors with His Son. It is no light matter.

It would be well for true believers to believe God, and not men.
---Phil on 9/28/12


gospel - what is the good news?

jesus overcame our wages for sin...death. that is the good news. there is only one.

there is one revelation in two groups of people, but there is and always will be one true gospel...the reconciliation of man back to God.
---aka on 9/27/12


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It was Christ who taught:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves." Matthew 7:15

"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matthew 24:5,24

There's indeed only One True Gospel but many many false gospels. Which have you received? As Christ declared, only the elect cannot be deceived.
---christan on 9/27/12


The truth is there are many, many the gospels out there.
You cant believe anyone who would deny this or say it not so!

But just as, there is only one Christ!
There is but one gospel of Christ!
And the message he came with from God!
And here again, you cannot believe anyone who would deny this or say it not so!

(Rom 1:16), (Rom 15:19), (Rom 15:29), (1Co 9:12), (1Co 9:18)
(2Co 4:4), (2Co 9:13), (2Co 10:14), (Gal 1:7), (Php 1:27), (1Th 3:2)
All say the gospel of Christ!

There are not two or more messages from God.
There has always been but one message from God, and this message was and is Christ.
May God bless you all, with that message!
Peace
---TheSeg on 9/27/12


"But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who come preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted---you may well put up with it!" (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)

So, there are false Jesus Christs, with witch people put up with not finding "rest for your souls." (Matthew 11:29) "And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body, and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15) People's attention can worship a piece of bread, a schedule, or a person instead.
---willie_c: on 9/27/12


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