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Ambition Driven Leaders

As a leader, are you driven by ambition? Do you have a need to control others? Are your teachings based on the real truth? Do you believe the Bible is inspired of Ya(God)? Can the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth with out a pastor or teacher?

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 ---Marc on 10/15/12
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A pastor cannot lead us into all truth - only the Holy Spirit can do that. If pastors were capable of that there would be no corrupt pastors, no members constantly become spiritual gypsies - moving from church to church, no discord between members etc.

Pastors are fallible human beings who make mistakes, some of whom are not necessarily born-again themselves. Some are in the position for their self promotion .

We will always gain more from being in contact with God than we will from the man in the pulpit.
---Rita_H on 10/30/12


Mark V,

I agree it's not all truth in the sense of mathematics, geography, etc - Jesus meant spiritual truth. And He did say "WILL guide you" into "ALL truth".

if He meant every believer, then every believer WILL have ALL the spiritual truth. Whoever errs would be a false believer, not having all the truth.

what about those who practice footwashing? That is a major spiritual truth according to some sects. Somebody obviously does not have all the truth. So who is the false believer in that debate?

Pick your side, and move on to the next disagreement to exclude the one who errs. See the animal you'll create?

Who is the "you" that Jesus meant? Who has all the truth?
---James_L on 10/22/12


James L 2: Jesus said, "When He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16:13). He is truth essentially in Himself, and He is the one who leads the church into all Truth. But what Jesus mean by "all Truth" He does not mean "all truth" absolutely. The Holy Spirit's work is not to lead us into all historical, geograpical, astronomical and mathimatical truth. The Holy Spirit is to lead us into all truth concening the mysteries of the kingdom of God, "of the gospel", of the counsel of God about the salvation of the church by Christ (Acts 20:27). The Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth necessary for faith and obedience (Acts 20:21).
---Mark_V. on 10/22/12


James L, you must have missed my answer on 10/17/12 are you would not be asking.
Not even the disciples knew all the truth.
It doesn't mean an external guidance into all truth by the objective revelation of truth. It is the internal teaching of the Holy Spirit, giving an understanding of the mind of God and of all revealed sacred truths, which is intented. All spiritual, divine, supernatural truth revealed in Scripture. To come to know and to rightly understand this truth it is the duty of every believer. To make this possible the Holy Spirit is promised to them. Of ourselves, without His special assistance and guidance we cannot arrive at a true knowledge or a right understanding of the truth revealed in Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 10/21/12


\\I answered barb and said, "what he, James L forgets is that the Holy Spirit has been doing the same work all through History."\\
---Mark_V. on 10/21/12

First, where is any historical evidence that everyone in Christendom has believed the same things?

Where are all the people that have been led into ALL truth. You would have to narrow it to only one denomination to find a unity of belief. And even in every denomination there are differences. Who has ALL the truth, in your opinion?

But that is not what you wrote to ME. You falsely accused me of denying the work of the Holy Spirit, without any basis, proof, or anything else.
---James_L on 10/21/12




Peter, thanks for your Comment. If you go back to James answer to barb, he said to her, "have you been with Him from the beginning? have you been scattered and left Him alone?" implying Jesus didn't mean what she said.
I answered barb and said, "what he, James L forgets is that the Holy Spirit has been doing the same work all through History." How could the O. T. saints know the Truth without the Holy Spirit? How could they even believe if they were not born of God? (John 1:12,13). To even imply Jesus only meant His comments to the disciples and not to her or anyone else because in the context He was speaking to them is wrong. Barb and I know we were not there. It was an un-necessary argument which confuses the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 10/21/12


James, Mark: A time of peace

The way (James) you have written some things it LOOKS as if you mean that Jesus comments were only for His disciples 'because none of us were there' -true

But I take it that Jesus comments could be 'extended' from what He said to His disciples to people further in the future.

On your side, MarkV: While I guess I can see how you take your accusations of James' comments, I think that your accusations should wait until you KNOW that all the things you accuse him of are actually his beliefs.

I KNOW that blogs are hard to handle, but let us TRY to have these conversations in a peaceful manner - if we are not trying, arguments may occur even if there is no good reason!

PLEASE!!!!
---Peter on 10/20/12


\\James, your denying the Spirit's works in the life of believers\\
---Mark V

That is a false accusation.

Is that something the Holy Spirit guided you to think?

If so, then you are being led by another spirit.

If the Holy Spirit didn't guide you into thinking that, then you must admit that He does not lead us into all truth. Becuse you were led into falsehood with that assessment


\\because the context tell us He was speaking to the disciples.\\
---Mark V

I've already clarified that we all agree about who He was speaking TO. Your misunderstanding is who He was talking ABOUT
---James_L on 10/20/12


There are also times when leaders are driven by ambition and that ambition (the desire to be 'above others')can lead them into sin.

We need to divide ambition into two types:

1) The ambition that leads us to do what GOD desires that we do

2) The ambition that leads us to do 'what will MAKE US BE POWERFUL/RICH......'

The first is Godly, the second is sinful

But both can be called ambition

At least I think they can both be called ambition
---Peter on 10/20/12


Ambition Driven Leaders
As a leader, are you driven by ambition?
YES That I may come unto you with joy by the will of God Romans 15:32

Do you have a need to control others?
NO Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand. 2 Corinthians 1:24

Are your teachings based on the real truth?
Yes For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: 2 Corinthians 2:17

Do you believe the Bible is inspired of Ya(God)?
Yes holy men of God spake moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21

Can the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth with out a pastor or teacher?
NO Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, Matthew 28:19
---francis on 10/20/12




Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things, and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

How do you obey? By Gods Holy Spirit working in your mind.

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind,

all Believers (people) obeying God are given the gift of his holy spirit at Baptism obeying his laws by the power of his spirit working in our minds
---Follower_of_Christ on 10/20/12


James L, in the very next verse after Jesus prays for those who will follow Him because of His disciple's words (which we have today in print), Jesus then still praying asks His Father that we should all be one with the Father and the Son (note that there is no period here, KJV). Can we be one with them and not be sanctified in Truth? Can we be one with them and not have the Holy Spirit guiding us?
---barb on 10/20/12


James, your denying the Spirit's works in the life of believers, because the context tell us He was speaking to the disciples.
"You cannot expect others to believe what you say, only unbelievers will, if the Holy Spirit is not teaching you."
You argue because I disagreed with you.
It is the internal teaching of the Holy Spirit, giving an understanding of the mind of God and of all revealed sacred truths. It's the same as the promise.
"They should all be taught of God" (John 6:45) all are the children born of God. (John 1:13). for this is how we are taught of God, and in no other way. The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth by giving of it which we ourselves are not able to arrive at (Acts 8:31).
---Mark_V. on 10/20/12


Mark V,

I think everybody would agree with who Jesus was talking to. He obviously wasn't talking to you or me, or barb, because none of us were there.

The point I made is who He was talking ABOUT.

When He said the Spirit would guide some into all truth, who did He have in mind? The context says that He had in mind only those who were there at the time.

If you think the Holy Spirit has guided anyone or any organization into all truth since the apostles, then you don't know much about the constant and widespread disunity of belief all throughout church history
---James_L on 10/20/12


barb, I agree with your answers very much. James L, is also correct concerning the context, when he said Jesus was speaking to them. But what he forgets is that the Holy Spirit has been doing the same work all through history. People didn't know much about the Holy Spirit and His works until the New Testament.
When we speak of the Spirit "coming" at Pentacost we do not mean that He was absent from the earth before then. We mean that He took up His residence in believers at Pentacost although He was present always convicting sinners of sin, obviously, since He is God. Pharaoh recognized the indwelling of the Spirit in Joseph (Gen. 41:38) and in many more instances.
---Mark_V. on 10/18/12


thanks aka

I'm not one to press onto every scripture an "immediate audience only" context and application. But many attempt to extract a promise, or expectation, where there is no warrant to do so.
---James_L on 10/18/12


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very good james
---aka on 10/17/12


barb,

Jesus didn't start His prayer until John 17:1

Before that, He was talking to His disciples, about THEM.

He said "You have been with Me from the beginning" (Jn 15:26-27)

Have you been with Him from the beginning?

He also said "Behold, an hour is coming, and has already come, for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone" (Jn 16:32)

Have you been scattered, and left Him alone?


Since He was talking About Them in 15:26 and 16:32, don't you think everything inbetween would be about THEM? Like in 16:13 when He told THEM that the Spirit would guide THEM into all truth?

Or was He wandering aimlessly through His thoughts?
---James_L on 10/17/12


Ambition is a very great and powerful thing that gets things done.
---Jed on 10/17/12


Marc. I believe what people forget is that the Holy Spirit testifies about the real Truth, the whole Truth, which is Christ Jesus. Jesus said, "When He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all Truth" (John 16:13). He leads the Church into all Truth. But that doesn't mean all truth abosolutely. The Holy Spirit is not going to lead us to all historical, geographical, astronomical and mathematical Truth. He is to lead us into all truth concerning the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, the gospel, and also the counsel of God about the salvation of the Church by Christ (Acts 20:27).
Every believer is led into all the truth necessary to his own state and condition to enable him for duty and work (Eph. 4:7).
---Mark_V. on 10/17/12


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Yes, the Holy Spirit can lead us into all truth without a pastor. Our Teacher is the Holy Spirit. John 14:26, John 16:13.

The Holy Spirit can only speak the Truth because He proceeds from the Father (John 15:26) and the Father is the one who sanctifies us in Truth. John 17:17. There is only one Truth and the Holy Spirit will not speak various truths to different people.

Jesus said in John 17:20, "Neither do I pray for these alone, (His disciples) but those also (us) who shall believe on me through their (His disciples) word".
---barb on 10/17/12


\\Can the Holy Spirit lead us into all truth with out a pastor or teacher?\\
---Marc

It was never promised that the Spirit would lead "us" into all truth.

If that were to be so, then there wouldn't be any disagreements. How could two disagree if both are led into all truth?

Does the Spirit lead one into a cetain truth, and one more into another truth?

Should we say that any time there's a disagreement that at least one of the parties doesn't have the Spirit?

Jesus was speaking to the eleven when He said that.(John 16:13). In that same discourse, He told the eleven that they had been with Him from the beginning. Were we there also? (John 15:26-27)
---James_L on 10/16/12


\\Are we not all teachers everytime we post.\\

Nope. Not at all.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/16/12


No one has the right to control other people.....Leaders does not have the right to control other people. God did not give you that right. In the church, No. In Government, No. In the homes, No.
---pat on 10/16/12


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Cluny,

Are we not all teachers everytime we post. There are many types of leaders all men are to be leaders of either family, church group, Bible study, etc.
---Scott1 on 10/16/12


I know a person who seems to think that his ego is the Holy Spirit...umm...something to think about.
---Rod4Him on 10/16/12


How many people here are leaders or teachers, Marc? Your post seems to assume that most are.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/16/12


Ambition: Not suppose to be. Truth: You better know it. Inspired: YES. Holy Spirit: All you need is God.
---pat on 10/15/12


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Our leaders are told, "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3) So, a leader trusted by Jesus (Hebrews 13:17) takes the lead in doing what we also need to do. And we obey the leader's good example and anything the LORD has the leader guide us to do > as "members of one another" (Romans 12:5, Ephesians 4:25), trusting and depending on each other (Ephesians 5:21), helping each other know and do what God wants . . . like our leaders do with us (c: So, yes this is how I understand Jesus has us all lead, even helping lead our leaders to be good examples!
---willie_c: on 10/15/12


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