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Work Your Way To Heavenh

Can you work your way to heaven? Is it possible to make it to heaven by being good? Real good.

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 ---pat on 10/16/12
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"are you "LIFTING UP JESUS" today so others can come and be drawn to Him?" kathr

Finally you have exalted yourself beyond any measure by claiming that you are the one that has to lift up Christ so that others can come and be drawn to Him. Is that what Christ meant in John 6:44?

"Jesus clearly said after John 6, I WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME!"

Even you would agree multitudes since the beginning of creation, are already in Hades. Did Jesus failed? Most definitely not and that's because I know my Jesus will indeed draw ALL only whom the Father has given to Him. Nothing more, nothing less. The number has already been decided by the Father.
---christan on 10/24/12


Nana, the dictionary justifies your "free-will"? Christ says otherwise. Matthew 11:25-27,

"I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father, neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."


See any condition the sinner has to "accept"? Only those whom the Father has chosen, in His purpose and time WILL COME TO BELIEVE, it's a given.

Good try to a bad theology of "free-will".
---christan on 10/24/12


The Father MUST first DRAW the sinner in order for him to even start repenting and believe in His Son.
---christan on 10/23/12

When will these people start living AFTER Jesus time on earth. Those Jews who were taught of the Father came to Jesus, even the woman at the well who HEARD OF THE CHRIST went and got her friends and said Here is the Christ.

TODAY the Holy Spirit draws you to Jesus. WHY, because Jesus said so. He sais I will go to My Father and send the Holy Spirit.

No one can even come to the Father except they FIRST come through the Son.

Jesus clearly said after John 6, I WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME!

christan are you "LIFTING UP JESUS" today so others can come and be drawn to Him?
---kathr4453 on 10/24/12


believe:
1
a : to have a firm religious faith
b : to accept something as true, genuine, or real
2
: to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something
3
: to hold an opinion : think
b : to accept something as true, genuine, or real

Matthew 8:13 "And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way, and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour."
Acts 16:31 "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."
---Nana on 10/23/12


"BUT ACCEPT WHAT JESUS DID FOR U AT THE CROSS." JanStenfansson

And NOOOOOOO..... that won't even get you to heaven. For I do not see anywhere in the Bible that declare the man has to "ACCEPT" but rather the Bible says "repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." See any "ACCEPT"?

If you have to "ACCEPT" Christ by your own "will", then what He declared made no sense. For Christ declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

The Father MUST first DRAW the sinner in order for him to even start repenting and believe in His Son.
---christan on 10/23/12




NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
U CAN NOT WORK TO COME TO HEAVEN.
ALL IS OF GRACE.
U CAN NOT TO A SINGLE SING
BUT ACCEPT WHAT JESUS DID FOR U AT THE CROSS. IT IS FREE FOR NOTHING TO COME TO HEAVEN. JUST ACCEPT JESUS AS U SAVIOUR.
JAN
---Jan_Stefansson on 10/23/12


Does it say in Genesis or anywhere that when God created Adam, He told Adam, "now I give you the free-will to decide if you would like to obey or disobey me"?

---christan on 10/23/12

Does it say in Genesis or anywhere God said this?:

Adam, I have not given you free will, so Eve will be tempted by Satan and she will eat like I programmed her to do, and then you will eat, like I programmed you to do.

Then after that, I have a program where you will be separated from me and everyone born after you.

Don't fret Adam, you are only a muppet in my hand to do exactly as I preprogrammed you to do . Therefore I am the author of SIN!
---kathr4453 on 10/23/12


To begin with, where in the Scripture does it explicitly says that such a "free-will" was even there when God created Adam? Or does one simply assume so?

Does it say in Genesis or anywhere that when God created Adam, He told Adam, "now I give you the free-will to decide if you would like to obey or disobey me"?

Why even assume something when the Scripture doesn't even say it is so? Simple, it is prove of a deprave heart. Just as the serpent lied, "You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
---christan on 10/23/12


Jack, you say, if you were god, stop right there, you are sinful, and by been sinful you come out with sinful desires. God is Sovereign, man is a sinner. Man has nothing on God. You think he does, because you have a man centered theology. It begins with man and tries to end up with God. you will always think that way because you were ordain to be that way. Maybe one day you will be changed and you will start with God first, instead of speaking for the free will of man which he doesn't have. I have yet to see one passage where God gave man a free will to choose Christ if he wanted. Still waiting for one passage.
---Mark_V. on 10/23/12


christan, are you saying children born without arms or legs were written up in a book of "body parts" or Members to be assigned to this person or that person?

I do realize Gof createe man on the 6t day, and all men after that are "begotten" aks birthed, not individually created.

Do you REALLY understand Psalms 139?

So are deformed/diseased babies deformed as a result of SIN or did God, at His drawing board create individually deformed humans?

---kathr4453 on 10/23/12




Free Will: Something that cant exist because it would make God helpless if true.

Now if I were God, this would be insulting. God can't get his own way if man has a choice?

Maybe its not man having free will that makes God "helpless" but their belief that God cant overcome man's free will.
---JackB on 10/22/12


So so blind are some that they cannot even recall who wrote Psalm 139:16 and Isaiah 49:15,16 and what the message is about.

It is clearly written, "Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect, and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."

How they see this verse as referring to a "nation" and not an individual in this case, King David, is truly beyond their understanding of the English language. The reference used "my" clearly speaks about an individual.

And just for their sake of denying election, they concoct funny doctrines of their own.
---christan on 10/23/12


Just for fun:

Calvinist Dictionary
A dictionary to help Arminians better understand Calvinist terminology.
(Dont take this too seriously, this is meant in good fun)
All: The elect
Altar Call: An insult to God

Arminianism: Man centered theology

Assurance: hoping that youre elect

Augustine: The first church father.

Calvinism: The gospel

Call (effectual): to be irresistibly dragged

Call (general): Gods justification to condemn the reprobate.

Compatiblism: We are free to do whatever the Potter decrees us to do.

Contradiction: a mystery

Doctrines of Grace: Term that helps illustrate how God has given us Calvinists superior insight.
---kathr4453 on 10/22/12


Calvinist Dictionary

Frankenstein: Cool story about a dead monster that got zapped with lightning and then became alive. Great parallel to the way we are regenerated.

Free Will: Something that cant exist because it would make God helpless if true.

Glory: Praise we give to God for anything wicked that has ever happened (except for the birth of Charles Finney).

Gods secret will: To save a few and reprobate the rest (secret to Arminians but not to us).

Gods revealed will: a mystery

Jesus Loves Me, This I Know: Misleading childrens song.

Regeneration: See Frankenstein.

Robot: Dont say that word!
---kathr4453 on 10/22/12


Work - no.
Being good, yes - if your name is Jesus the Christ and you are a member of the Holy Trinity.
No - if you are a sinful human in need of salvation.
p.s. please read Romans chapter 3 at your leisure.
---Glenn on 10/22/12


Amos 3:2
You only have I known of all the families of the earth: ---

Sorry christian, try again.

God is talking to Israel His firstborn.

YOU however were without hope in the world, grafted in wild against nature. Kinda humbling isn't it?

Stop tormenting yourself. You simply were not there when God spoke those words to Israel.

You were a dog eating crumbs from their table. BUT NOW Salvation is come to you. Praise God...Whosoever will may come...even you christan!
---kathr4453 on 10/22/12


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"Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect, and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them." Psalm 139:16

" Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee. Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands, thy walls are continually before me." Isaiah 49:15,16
---christan on 10/22/12


So Christan, you believe that Jesus fought with you until you passed out from the smoke and then saved you before Jesus himself was overcome by the smoke, snd THEN Jesus was overcome by the smoke which James equates to his death and ???? resurrection?

So you actually believe the elect existed before Jesus died and rose again? And You make fun of my analogies? Really?

So where did this all happen? On the Planet KOLOB?

The Mormons are coming, The Mormons are here!
---kathr4453 on 10/22/12


So Christan , are we to assume you never change your underware, or not often?

No wonder things stink around here at times!

YOU always talk about the Elect Christan. The ONLY thing you can talk about is the Elect Christan. WE KNOW THAT! Just like michael_e always wants to remind people with his bogus doctrine the Jews murdered Jesus.

The immaturity of your understanding is obvious. "Johnny one notes" have no real song to sing! No debth, no width, no length no height. Just FLAT!

Mini Muppets!
---kathr4453 on 10/22/12


kathr, you change topic like some change underwear. At what point did I deny that "Faith without works is DEAD"? Weren't we talking about the elect?

well, since I'm still on the topic of the elect, let me demonstrate to you from the Scripture about a particular elect that did his "good work" that God the Father had prepared for him. Namely, the Good Samaritan. Yes, he was an elect for he quietly moved along after helping the man without any song and dance, unlike you.

How do I know this? "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:10
---christan on 10/21/12


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---francis on 10/21/12 "All who are saved are saved by the blood of Jesus."

These are the three passages where the blood of Jesus is mentioned.

Hb 10:19
1Pt 1:2
1Jn 1:7

The Holy Spirit does not support your statement. The sprinkling and shedding of blood is for a covering, it does not redeem.

It is the Christ of God Who saves us. It is His Person, not His blood, that saves.

The Lord poured out His blood. It is a testimony of His soul suffering and humiliation at the hands of His creation.

It stands as a witness against mankind, and the righteousness of God.
---Phil on 10/22/12


Well JamesL, you also must then believe Jesus picked and chose who to fight with to put the mask on,...did he put a mask on all who were burning in the building?

I totally disagree with this, and certainly christan must too. "WE HAVE NO FREE WILL TO FIGHT BACK" says Christan.

And if Jesus passed out in the smoke, how did they get out of the building?

This dog just does not hunt!

Nope, I see firefighters with a big trampoline outside a window. WHOSOEVERWILL may jump right into the arms of the firefighters trampoline. Those who had faith to jump, the firefighters would catch them before falling to their death were saved.
---kathr4453 on 10/22/12


Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,)

CONCULSION: All who are saved are saved by the blood of Jesus, even those who have NEVER heard of Jesus can and some will be saved by Jesus
---francis on 10/21/12


"So James, you believe salvation is like Jesus trying to put on us an oxygen mask, and while we fighting Him, we pass out, He then is able to put it on and then HE passes out????

Wow, I think I like the Gym one better."
---kathr4453 on 10/21/12

Me too!
---Nana on 10/21/12


Send a Free Salvation Tract


Kathr,

I agreed with Christan about your erroneous analogy.

And yes, Christ could be compared to the firefighter who gave his life saving someone who was fighting against him.

While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. I'm sure you've heard that preached, right?

But hey, I'm right there with you on that gym thing. I like that better, too. It appeals to my carnal nature (the flesh), and it would make me feel real good to think I had to drive to the place, wait in line and fill out all the paperwork to claim it. Seems right.

But there is a way which seems right to man, and the end thereof is death
---James_L on 10/21/12


It may be something like being in a burning building, coughing and choking on smoke.

Then a fireman comes to rescue you, and tries to put his own oxygen mask on you - but you're fighting against him because you're hysterical.

When you pass out, he's able to put his mask on you and carry you to safety.

But he inhales so much smoke along the way that he dies of smoke inhalation
---James_L on 10/21/12

So James, you believe salvation is like Jesus trying to put on us an oxygen mask, and while we fighting Him, we pass out, He then is able to put it on and then HE passes out????

Wow, I think I like the Gym one better.
---kathr4453 on 10/21/12


\\\who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.\\\
---Nana on 10/21/12

That is not part of the verse


Kathr,
You should go back and read James 2 again. If you think DEAD means fake, then you'll have to ask how a body becomes fake once it is separated form the spirit (2:26)

Also - Since James TWICE mentioned the Judgment Seat of Christ (2:12, 3:1), Why would you think he's not talking about the same thing everywhere inbetween?

Are you sure that He couldn't even write 30 sentences without wandering in and out of topic?

Sheesh, you don't give scripture writers much credit for writing intelligibly

The bible is not a book of one-liners, Kathr. There is a context that you are ignoring
---James_L on 10/21/12


Christian, how then can YOU claim to be saved FREELY by His Grace?

JamesL, I believe you may have missed the point OR maybe one needs to review James again.

Faith without works is DEAD. That was my point.

Yet Christian denies that point.

What a contradiction of thought here.

So JamesL, you are saying you agree with Christian that only the Elect are saved before they believe? Because THAT IS what Christian is saying and believes. NO FREE WILL!
---kathr4453 on 10/21/12


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Nada wrong with the gym analogy,

Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
---Nana on 10/21/12


Kathr,

I agree with Christan on your erroneous analogy.

If we were to come up with a present-day analagy, it wouldn't be a gym membership that you can "accept"

It may be something like being in a burning building, coughing and choking on smoke.

Then a fireman comes to rescue you, and tries to put his own oxygen mask on you - but you're fighting against him because you're hysterical.

When you pass out, he's able to put his mask on you and carry you to safety.

But he inhales so much smoke along the way that he dies of smoke inhalation
---James_L on 10/21/12


"OH and on another note, I can't tell you how many times I have been GIVEN a FREE membership to a Gym. But out of my own free will, I chose not to take advantage of it, and my name was never recorded as a member." kathr

Another of your blasphemous analogy. Comparing a "FREE membership to a Gym" with inheriting the Kingdom of God.

Do you seriously think it was "free" to the Christian to inherit God's Kingdom and there was no cost involved at all? Seriously? Really seriously?

A life of a sinless man in the form of Jesus Christ gave Himself up for "a ransom" that was hanging in front of the Christian head, DEATH! And you compare this with your Gym? Wow!
---christan on 10/21/12


Kathr, promise of the Spirit was never mentioned in (Heb. 11:13) the three passages I wrote down followed (v.11:13) that you gave. They got the promised land, they were not happy there, because they were looking for the heavenly place (Hebrews 11:16) in the context,
"But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country...." a land God had prepared already for them, a city, the heavenly Jerusalem mentioned in (Heb. 12:22).
---Mark_V. on 10/21/12


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Can you work your way to heaven?
Eph_2:8-9 Not of works, lest any man should boast!

Is it possible to make it to heaven by being good?
Mar_10:18 there is none good but one, that is, God!

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say,
We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
Is this really not clear enough?

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Not even you!
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/21/12


By trusting his death and resurrection for your salvation(The gospel of grace revealed to Paul) and adding no other works or church traditions you are sealed with the Holy Ghost (Eph 1:13, Rom 4:5). This no works disclaimer is necessary for those who would make Gods grace powerless to save by adding any necessary work to Christs finished work ( baptism, confessions, prayers, experiences, etc.)

Wrong testimonies of the gospel are usually spoken out of ignorance of the right gospel.
---michael_e on 10/20/12


MarkV All of Hebrews 11 has nothing to do with faith in any LAND. Abraham looked for a City who's builder and maker was Go, the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM. The others looked for a BETTER resurrection.

Land was never once mentioned in Hebrews 11. Being made PERFECT was. Read to the end Markv. Abel never looked for land. All of Hebrews 11 is examples of FAITH in Christ. The Bible is about Jesus Christ MarkV.

THEY could not be made PERFECT without us.
---kathr4453 on 10/20/12


Would you happen to know that exercise is a work?
---James_L on 10/19/12

I know, right! Last year I joined a gym. I was promised if I joined, how I would get in shape, feel better, have more energy and all that stuff.

I didn't know I actually had to GO TO the Gym and WORK OUT. I thought I would have all that just by JOINING!.
---kathr4453 on 10/20/12


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OH and on another note, I can't tell you how many times I have been GIVEN a FREE membership to a Gym.

But out of my own free will, I chose not to take advantage of it, and my name was never recorded as a member.

I've been offered lots of FREE GIFTS here and there, but I CHOSE not to take possession of them. Stupid? Yea, probably!
---kathr5543 on 10/20/12


Kathr, I disgree totally with your answer, you said about (Heb.11:13). The promise mentioned was the inheritance of the land. They did receive that promise. They felt strangers in that land (v.13) by confessing they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth, (v.14-16) "For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return, " here is what they desired, not the promise of Spirit as you say, "But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God. For He has prepared a city for them." The promise of eternal life in heaven.
---Mark_V. on 10/20/12


\\Having faith is being absolutely convinced that God would do what he had promised to do.\\
---kathr4453 on 10/19/12

I agree 100%, and that is what Romans 4:21-25 says.

And that is why faith is not active. Nobody can choose to be convinced. Nobody ever decided to be convinced.

We are convinced - either by evidence or by someone else's words.


\\....Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ....is a spiritual excercise.\\
---christan on 10/19/12

Would you happen to know that exercise is a work?
---James_L on 10/19/12


//Can you work your way to heaven? // No
There is only one way in this present age, by believing Paul's gospel, simplest explanation (1Cor.15:1-4)
---michael_e on 10/19/12


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Hebrews 11:13
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


What was the PROMISE they hadn't received? Well, scripture tells us that the Spirit was that PROMISE.

The PROMISE of the Spirit...

Certainly not the promise of salvation or eternal life.

SOOOOOO, if they died without receiving the PROMISE, how is it you claim they were Born Again in the OT. Jesus had not died and risen, and that's why they died without receiving teh Promise of The Spirit of the LIFE of Christ.

The SPIRIT is the NT Promise.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/12


Rev20:13 at the great white throne, the dead were judged by their works! Rev 2:23 The real Christ will "Give to each one according to his WORKS"! We are saved according to grace, yet JUDGED according To our works!
---Marc on 10/19/12


Romans 4:18-21,Hoping in spite of hopeless circumstances, he believed that he would become "the father of many nations," just as he had been told: "This is how many descendants you will have."
He did not weaken in faith when he thought about his own body (which was already as good as dead now that he was about a hundred years old) or about Sarah's inability to have children,
nor did he doubt God's promise out of a lack of faith. Instead, he became strong in faith and gave glory to God,
being absolutely convinced that God would do what he had promised.

Having faith is being absolutely convinced that God would do what he had promised to do.

And Abrahan wasn't Born Again first to Believe God!
---kathr4453 on 10/19/12


"...look at my works!"

No, he teaches humility,

"Luke 14:10,"... go and sit down in the lowest room..."
"to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give"

"... unprofitable servants"
Jesus commanded them to forgive and they made up excuse (increase our faith). Excuses don't get them of the hook, "when ye shall have done".

The Lord also said, "Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom ..."
And Paul said,
Galatians 6:9 "And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not"

God will judge and reward all of us. If you thought of me otherwise, you thought wrong again.
---Nana on 10/19/12


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Ro 2:6 who shall render to each according to his works,
to those, indeed, who in continuance of a good work, do seek glory, and honour, and incorruptibility--life age-during (G166 aionios).

Eternal life is not scriptural. Aionios does not mean eternal, which is a theological word not found in the Scriptures.

Life for the coming age, Christ's millennial reign, will have resurrected ones able to live for the entire age, who had lived by faith and works, yet knew not of Christ's sacrifice. They will be under the Law, and the rules of Matthew 5-7.

The body of Christ is a special election, apart from the Law and Israel. It is a Divine exception, not the rule.
---Phil on 10/19/12


Faith in an insurance company is completely different from Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. How different is that? Simple, one is a carnal act and the other is a spiritual excercise.

You don't need to be "born of the Spirit" to put your "faith" in an insurance company. Whereas to have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, one has to be "born of the Spirit by the will of God", John 1:13 - which Christ did say is "impossible for man" to attain.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor 2:14
---christan on 10/19/12


\\If we confess
If we abide
If we eat his flesh
If we forgive
If we endure
If we are born again

Those we things we have to do to enter heaven.\\
---Ruben on 10/18/12



interesting progression, demonstrating the ignorance of some(one)
---James_L on 10/18/12

Are you saying we do not need to do none that is listed above?
---Ruben on 10/19/12


I just love the way Nana says:
That is the only way, given time.
So what will you tell the lord? See, look at my works!

Mat_7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Nana the lord said:
Luk_17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Will you still tell him, SEE!
No not one!
Not even the men of the OT!
Peace
---TheSeg on 10/19/12


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Karthr - 0n 10/18/12 - NO Scripture calls Faith/ Belief a Work ----- ?

! Thessalonians 1:3 - Remember with out ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of the hope in our Lord Jesus Christ , in the sight of God and our Father.

( Faith being a work is also in 2 Thessalonians 1:11 Too. )

RUBEN 10/18/12 - Need to accept Jesus

( Now If someone Says - I accept Christ , Is not that person By saying -( I Accept Christ ) Try to do the work of getting themselves saved ? )

Didn't Jesus say He who Believes ?

Read - Romans 10:9 - It says Shalt confess with thy Mouth - Believe in thy HEART - ( God has to First change that persons Heart.)

Proverbs 20:9
---RICHARDC on 10/19/12


\\...they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."\\
---Nana on 10/18/12

But entering and inheriting are not the same thing.
---James_L on 10/18/12


--the reason that faith is not a work is because faith happens to us, it doesn't come from us.

faith is passive, not active
---James_L on 10/18/12

Faith is an attitude. Faith comes by HEARING the Word of God. Faith is our MIND, WILL, INTELLLECT( AKA HEART) believing what we hear. We can accept something as true or walk away.

I've put faith in a particular Insurance Company for my Home Owners. My faith in them is based upon what I have heard others say about them. I believed what I heard and put my trust in them.

Our FAITH is in a PERSON. We hear the Gospel that Jesus Christ died for our sin, and MY SIN was included in that sacrifice. I believe His death/resurrection was to save me, simply because GOD SAID SO!
---kathr4453 on 10/19/12


g, we know from (Rom. 3: 10,11) where fallen man stands,
"There is none righteous, no, not one. There is none who understands, There is none who seek after God"
The fallen condition of man.
In order for someone to even understand spiritual things he needs to be born of the Spirit.
"But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us" (The "us" are those who were chosen by God before the foundation of the world) "even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved, and raised "us" up together, and made "us" sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:4-6).
---Mark_V. on 10/19/12


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Genesis 4:7 "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?..." "doest well"
Isaiah 1:17 "Learn to do well..."
James 1:22 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves." "be ye doers"
John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Where? In the fountain of good and evil, the heart of course.

Matthew 15:19

Luke 8:15 "But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience."

"honest and good heart"
---Nana on 10/19/12


"Is it possible to make it to heaven by being good? Real good."

That is the only way, given time.

Galatians 5:19_21 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

The opposite yields the opposite result

All is basically on account of the abundance of the heart
---Nana on 10/18/12


\\Didn't you need to accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour? That's a work.\\
---Ruben on 10/18/12


\\No scripture ever calls faith/belief A WORK. Only an illiterate moron would.\\
---kathr4453 on 10/18/12


Kathr, you are right that faith and belief are not works. But Rueben is also right that "accepting" Christ is a work. Accepting is active = activity = work

Scripture never, ever, not even once, calls us to accept Hm. He accepts us, on account of faith.

And the reason that faith is not a work is because faith happens to us, it doesn't come from us.

faith is passive, not active
---James_L on 10/18/12


\\Can you work your way to heaven?\\
---pat on 10/16/12


\\No church, including the Roman Catholic, has ever taught this.\\
---Cluny on 10/16/12


\\Not even implicitly.
But ignorant people THINK it was.\\
---Cluny on 10/17/12


\\If we confess
If we abide
If we eat his flesh
If we forgive
If we endure
If we are born again

Those we things we have to do to enter heaven.\\
---Ruben on 10/18/12



interesting progression, demonstrating the ignorance of some(one)
---James_L on 10/18/12


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kathr, you really need to keep your mouth shut when you dissagree with someone. you are so condesending to bloggers who don't agree with you. you come off as some kind of expert on Godly things when in fact, most of your post is not true.
---shira4368 on 10/18/12


"In the other blog, I asked how does one become born of the spirit of God, you didn't actually answer my question." g

"But as many as RECEIVED HIM, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: WHICH WERE BORN, NOT OF THE BLOOD, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE MAN, BUT OF GOD." John 1:12,13

It starts of with the will of God for one to "born of the Spirit" before the sinner can even "receive" the Christ. Notice it didn't say "accept".

Is that good enough an answer or do you still not get how one is "born of the Spirit"?
---christan on 10/18/12


MarkV

In the other blog, I asked how does one become born of the spirit of God, you didn't actually answer my question.
You just repeated yourself.
Not trying to be rude, but I would like a biblical answer if you dont't mind.
I know my bible says for one to be born again, one must first believe Christ is the son of God. You asked me where in the bible does it say that and aka answered it for me. But that passage he gave isn't the only one. It says so many times.
So, I am really curious as to how you think one is born of the Spirit of God? can you answer with scripture, please? thanks! and God Bless!
---g on 10/18/12


Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Where does it say faith/belief is a work?

Romans 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone,

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

No scripture ever calls faith/belief A WORK. Only an illiterate moron would.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/12


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The Roman Catholic : as I Know there Teaching is - God gives Men - Women a Capacity to Choose - Good - Evil .

If Man or Women Chooses - They have to Do something To get to Heaven - This is a Work.
---RICHARDC on 10/18/12

Didn't you need to accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour? That's a work.

Didn't Jesus himself said "He who believes and is batized will be saved" (MK 16:16) That's a work!

Doesn't scripture tell us:

If we confess
If we abide
If we eat his flesh
If we forgive
If we endure
If we are born again

Those we things we have to do to enter heaven.

Tell me Richardc did Jesus hover over the earth and saw you and said' come on you are save'-really?
---Ruben on 10/18/12


Cluny - 10/16/12 - No church - including Roman Catholic has ever taught This - ?

The Roman Catholic : as I Know there Teaching is - God gives Men - Women a Capacity to Choose - Good - Evil .

If Man or Women Chooses - They have to Do something To get to Heaven - This is a Work., There trying to do something to get Right with God.That's man trying to do the work of getting himself or herself saved. The potter does not get to choose - And who's to tell the potter?
---RICHARDC on 10/18/12


There are so many wonderful UNSAVED people out there who have done wonderful deeds and works, yet are not saved. God said compared to the Works of Christ and His works in us, they are nothing more than a filthy rag in God's eyes.

Your works cannot bring about a NEW CREATURE In Christ.

In Adam all die. And all the wonderful works of a dead man cannot enter heaven. ONLY those who are Redeemed through the Blood of Jesus Christ written in the Lambs Book of LIFE will be there.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/12


"a person that works and does good deeds is BECAUSE of their faith" steveng

That's not how it's written by Paul. It should be, a person does good works is because they are already saved by grace through faith. Their good works were already "ordained" by God, predestined. The faith he receives is a GIFT FROM GOD, that is, from without and not within.

Ephesians 2:8-10, "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
---christan on 10/17/12


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\\Not even implicitly.
But ignorant people THINK it was.\\
---Cluny on 10/17/12

Unfortunately, a LOT of ignorant people fail to see the implications of a loaded "gospel" where they are taught, implicitly, the suppposed good news that living one's life for Christ will secure their entrance into heaven.

Many will say to Him on that day "Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your Name, and in Your Name cast out demons, and in Your Name perform many miracles?"

It's the voodoo of you do

MANY people, taught by their church to give their life to Christ, will not see heaven because they have lived their entire life for Christ, but have not entrusted their eternal destiny to Him
---James_L on 10/17/12


Faith without works is dead. But being a good doer etc, your own self righteous acts - works of kindness Is as filthy rags before God.
---Lawrence on 10/17/12


Working hard and being good will NOT get a person into heaven, but...

a person that works and does good deeds is BECAUSE of their faith, their genuine love for others, for it is written that faith without works is dead faith.

Many denominations have it backwards.
---Steveng on 10/17/12


Pat, the answer is no. "For whatever is done not of faith is sin." (Rom. 14:23).
God's word says:

"....that you may learn in us not think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. "For who makes you differ from another?" And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?" (1Cor. 4:6-7).

All good and perfect things come from above. An unbeliever "because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts" (Rom. 1:21) so whatsoever they do without faith in Christ is sin.
---Mark_V. on 10/17/12


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Can you work your way to heaven? Is it possible to make it to heaven by being good? Real good.
Someone wrote something here that made me turn to this:

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord!

This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.

Can a Physician, heal himself?
---TheSeg on 10/17/12


\\\\No church...has ever taught this.\\
---Cluny on 10/16/12

Maybe not explicitly, but implicitly\\

Not even implicitly.

But ignorant people THINK it was.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/17/12


//The church has failed miserably at correcting misconceptions// JamesL

Not only misconceptions but our own logical and typical thinking. Every religion is do THIS and if you are close enough to the goal you get to move up in a heirarchy of levels such that you will be more honored or valued by the deity.
Islam - Allah - Five Pillars of Faith
Hinduism - many gods - comeback as a honored animal like a cow
Buddism - no deity - nirvana, goal not to exist
Christianity - Jesus comes to us to die for us. Which is totally anti-human thinking.
---Scott1 on 10/17/12


"And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Like 5:31,32

"When His disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, WITH MEN THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:25,26

KEYWORDS: SINNERS, REPENTANCE, IMPOSSIBLE
---christan on 10/16/12


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\\No church...has ever taught this.\\
---Cluny on 10/16/12

Maybe not explicitly, but implicitly

virtually all churches teach that with a certain amount of bad, a person will not enter heaven.

This, by default, means that one must produce a certain amount of good in order to enter.


\\many people believe that Christianity is BASED on "good works get you to heaven"\\
---StrongAxe on 10/16/12

Many, even professing believers, also believe that some sort of work will "access" grace.

Either way, their faith is firmly fixed on their own effort, and they are outside of grace

And you are 100% correct. The church has failed miserably at correcting misconceptions
---James_L on 10/16/12


Whether or not any church has actually taught this, it is a very popular belief.

Since so many people believe that Christianity is BASED on "good works get you to heaven", then a LOT of churches haven't been doing their jobs to correct this misconception.
---StrongAxe on 10/16/12


No church, including the Roman Catholic, has ever taught this.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/16/12


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