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Does God Bring People Together

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 ---andrew_millar on 10/18/12
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Christian how rude of you to call Marc a liar. A liar is someone who knowingly promotes something he knows is not true. There is no other definition. I see no evidence that Marc has lied, rather that he has a different view of this particular scripture than you do. This does not make him a liar. If you have a little integrity I think your should apologize to your Christian brother.
---Warwick on 11/19/12


Christan,

So, rather than look up a Classic Greek Dictionary (Sorry, mate, did you study any Classic Greek in your undergrad work? No? Well, I did.) and see that 'accept' is a perfectly acceptable translation of 'elabon' (see Vine and Phillips), you prefer to call me a liar. Even English tells you that 'receive' and 'accept' are interchangeable.

I wont bother to give you a lesson on leading and subordinate clauses but it may help you alter your eisegetical approach to allow it to become proper exegesis.

BTW, here's a tissue: You need it to wipe the egg from your face.
---Marc on 11/19/12


Hi christian,

Great interpretation! I believe you are right on with scripture!


I believe Paul stated it best concerning the Arminian Doctrine:
Ga1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Ga1:7 Which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Ga1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Salvation is by GRACE!!!
Christ + the works of man in order to obtain salvation = Heresy.
---trey on 11/19/12


"John 1:11-13 ("Yet wherever men did accept him he gave them the power to become sons of God." Note logical order!)" Marc

"He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Those who receive Christ (not accept) are those born of the will of God. And by the "faith" God gives to them in regeneration will they believe in His Son, hence "it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth"

What an amazing liar you are.
---christan on 11/19/12


---willie_c: on 10/19/12//
Nicely stated willie_c.
To God is the glory--not of us.


Hebrew mind:
Something that functions is good-balanced. The priority is [maintaining] relationships in our family and neighbors.
Fruit grows from the tree---- Actions unto another.
---char on 11/14/12




Phil, thanks for your words. When God saved me, and I begin to witness for the Lord, I understood that when I spoke of the Truth, people were going to get upset personally. It is normal reaction of those who reject the Truth. They really don't hate you, they hate the Truth. So they will fight you "personally" with all that is in their hearts.
"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good, and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. "for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks" (Luke 6:45). So I understand why they attempt to bring me down with words, because what they are really doing is, they are opposing the Truth, so don't want to hear it.
---Mark_V. on 11/5/12


Mark_V

I would be failing if I did not post this. In all your obstinacy, your zeal, in all your abrasiveness, your tenderness toward the living One and your desire for Him is incredible.

The elect of God carry much baggage, all of us. But I know the Ensign you bear.

Attacked you are, frequently. But it is the order of the day for those who want to undermine the enemy inside and outside of their lives.
---Phil on 11/4/12


Family,thankyou first of all Shira4368, putting that Dad & his daughter marry the saudi man on my prayer list ( god knows her name)mexican lady marry muslim he took their baby girl went Iraq /never be see again.I have talk others, in Columbia large arab population
They marry a woman & kidnap child she doesn't cooperate.we.got to hold up in prayer.We can pray if she is saved,she got to pray in silence.Muslim country,God will.hear her prayers! Omscient,!omnimpotent
Ps.139:7-12.
---ELENA on 11/4/12


Marc, I read it and not once did I claim infallibility, or that I knew everything and to ask me.
You build such a case, that it sounds like the inquisitioners. You forgot to read all the "if's"? Did I say you had to ask me "if" you wanted to know the Truth? You can ask anyone for help "if" you need it, all you have to do is ask. "If" you have a passion, "if" you don't, then what can I say? Sounds like you just wanted to sound off that morning and just didn't like my statement. "If" you don't like my answers, you do not have to reply "If" you don't want to, ""if" you want to go for it. Peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 11/4/12


THIS is how the Lord teaches us what passages mean...

The truth is WROUGHT IN US, meaning the deep truths of Scripture, of Jesus etc, come ONLY THROUGH the Fellowship of His Sufferings vis living by Faith and becoming partakers of His divine nature THROUGH FAITH in His Promises. All else is head-knowledge.

The TRUTH will set you FREE. Head knowledge does not set you free. The CROSS does. Tha actual EXPERIENCE of the CROSS, that is, that personal experience of being taken from death to life IN CHRIST, and then on to maturity IN CHRIST growing up INTO HIM.

THOSE who have NEVER experienced the
cross only cling to doctrine.
---kathr4453 on 11/4/12




Beloved,believe that yes, god moves and people together,been trying to practice and visit here meeting.with pastors and found a few very open to my project ( really god project) for aids/cancer. Seen a great harvest but hurts to see a good young pastor(s) they are as we talk not having regular service...not that they are negligent, theysay it over welming / are " burned.out" my.heart breaks so, I know the holidays coming , very patient myself but wow! Prayer for them. They not from inner city ..god.help them.just needed to share.ELENA
---ELENA on 11/4/12


MarkV,

"If you want to know about the Truth, all you have to do is ask. If you feel it's too difficult to learn the Truth, what can I say? You have to have passion to learn about God. If you don't have it, what can I say? And if God's Spirit prompts you to search the deep things of God, and you don't feel like it, what can I say? I believe once a person is born of God, it's expedient to learn how to interpet Scripture. God has gifted many for the sole purpose of teaching us how to interpet Scripture correctly. A believer first needs to know the meaning God has for each passage. If the Spirit guides you to learn theology for the purpose of teaching, you'll learn if you're a genuine believer."

Them's your words.
---Marc on 11/3/12


Marc, again you say,

"No, MarkV, against me "you've claimed infallibility. "You've said"
I'm wrong because God's Spirit of interpretation is upon you and thus you're always right and my [reasoned] argument is wrong and opposes God.


Show me where I said what you said, what you just wrote? Lead me to the Truth this morning please.

"God is not a man that He should lie, nor the Son of Man that He should repent" (Numbers 23:19).
God is Spirit and we should worship Him in Spirit and in Truth.
---Mark_V. on 11/3/12


Mark V. always have an answer to any verse. He goes to his books and commentaries from Loraine Boettner, John MacArthur, AW Pink, etc., and then he lays what they wrote on you as if he was speaking, as if he could hold a conversation.
---Nana on 10/27/12

That's "EXACTLY" what Lisa use to do. So the question is, Is markV Lisa, or is it just that Calvinists really don't have God's Word wrought IN THEM, where living waters flow out of them. They have placed their faith in the interpretation of other men, who are part of their particular demonination.

Occasionally MarkV does grab something from a free willer and post it and doesn't have the common sense to even know what he posted. To me, That says more than you know.
---kathr4453 on 11/3/12


markv, I have been attacked too. Im sort of use to it. It just rolls off my back like water off a ducks back.
God has allowed me to meet some precious folks and I met them 9 yrs ago on christianet. We are still friends and they have a great ministry.
---shira4368 on 11/2/12


No, MarkV, against me you've claimed infallibility. You've said I'm wrong because God's Spirit of interpretation is upon you and thus you're always right and my [reasoned] argument is wrong and opposes God.
---Marc on 11/2/12


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Sis. Shira, thank you very much for the encouragement. Some do not realize they are sinning when they do. It's a habit and much easier for a person to attack you personallly then to answer with Truth from the Word of God. Been attack personally for disagreeing is very common. Instead of making sure for themselves they are not teaching something wrong, and compromising the Truth, they rather attack you personally. I mentioned to 1Cliff that it was very important to speak the Truth, and he jump all over me for saying that. So I expect anything coming my way. Again thank you so much for your answer, blessings and peace I leave you sister.
---Mark_V. on 11/2/12


markv, thanks for telling the truth. some think they cannot sin but our flesh sins everyday and sometimes we don't even realize it. we all know the bible is the infallible word of God. I do also believe God brings relationships together. most of the time we don't even realize that and sometimes we make bad choices. God bless you markv.
---shira4368 on 11/1/12


Marc, now you make another personal attack concerning me personally, not Scripture when you said,

"That you publicly proclaim before all and sundry that when you interpret the Bible you are infallible is a mightily dangerous psychology to carry around. And you do assert you are infallible!"

Here let me help you understand. I am not infallible. Infallibility belongs only to God. I'm a sinner saved by Grace of God. He is Holy and always right, I am clay and fail all the time. I admit that so everyone will know, even you. So go ahead and persecute me personally for the Truth I bring, all you want. It does not bother me. You are not first. I have even had satan thrown at me some mornings. He must be pretty busy guy.
---Mark_V. on 11/1/12


MarkV,

I'm not persecuting you - that would only go to your already swollen head.

That you publicly proclaim before all and sundry that when you interpret the Bible you are infallible is a mightily dangerous psychology to carry around. And you do assert you are infallible!

Yes, Cliff is correct: You believe you are a super-apostle.
---Marc on 10/31/12


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Marc, I am not going to question your salvation, I am not able to see your heart whether you have a true love for the biblical Christ or not, I only question what you teach. I don't know what you have witnessed in your life, or who has taught you.
I am not persecuting you, in fact you begin to persecute me when you got personal for what I answered. But that is ok. It is not the first time. What I do know is that God is not a man that He should lie, nor the Son of Man that He should repent. God is Spirit and has no arms or legs or a physical heart. He is the same yesterday, today and forever, His nature, character and attributes never change. If that is what you have learned that you got it right.
---Mark_V. on 10/30/12


1Cliff, of course your entitle to your own personal opinion of me just as I am of what you write. Though I do not know your hearts, and I'm not talking about your physical heart, but your faith in Christ, I can only judge by the way you answer to Scripture. Only God knows who are His. I sure don't. What I do know is if you have a true love for the Biblical Christ, you will do everything possible to learn the Truth. And nothing should stop you from doing that. If the Spirit guides you to learn theology for the purpose of teaching, you will learn it if you are a genuine believer. Anything short of your best is not true love. Take it for what its worth to you. If its only worth condensending, then that is all its worth to you.
---Mark_V. on 10/30/12


Mark V, Not so much arrogant but certainly condescending!
Born of God ,gifted in interpretation .(you don't want to teach something that is wrong) he says.
Trying to teach me "his" way rather than answering valid questions!
Paul wrote about this type in 2Cor.11.5 called them "Super apostles"
A different Jesus than the scriptural one. Jesus is God's Son and not part of a multi-god!
---1st_cliff on 10/30/12


MarkV,

Believe me Mark, I didn't get hot and bothered. When you've been bashed more than once for your faith, threatened with jail, seen REAL miracles occur to you, been a Christian for more than 30 years, etc etc, one Calvinist American who believes that he is never wrong when he opens his mouth about Scripture and who won't, ultimately, reason but rests on the assertion that "God is in me, not in you, and so I know I have the correct interpretation" isn't someone who makes me angry. Just the opposite.
---Marc on 10/30/12


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Marc, I'm not arrogant. I believe that once a person is born of God, it is expedient to learn how to interpet Scripture. And the advice I gave you got you all worked up and bothered. It could have helped you or not, but it bothered you that I even gave you an answer. God has gifted many brothers and sisters for the sole purpose of teaching us how to interpet Scripture correctly. If in your heart the purpose is to learn about God, you would do anything possible to get it right. You don't want to teach something that is wrong. A believer first needs to know the meaning God has for each passage, and then apply it to your life for your own edification. God is not a man that He should lie, neither the Son of Man that He should repent. God is Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 10/30/12


MarkV,

A tad hubristic, wouldn't you say?

And you know that fabulously apposite adage, 'Pride cometh before a fall', don't you?
---Marc on 10/29/12


God had repented, in Genesis 6:6-7, that He had made man, but we never find Him repenting that He redeemed man. I will wipe off man from the earth, as dirt or filth is wiped off from a place. God took up this resolution concerning man after His spirit had been long striving with him in vain....None are ruined by the justice of God but those that hate to be reformed by the "Grace of God". In Genesis 6:6 it was God's resentment of man's wickedness. God did not see it as an unconcerned spectator, but as one injured and affronted by it.
---pat on 10/29/12


Marc, you say,

"My, your eisegesis makes understanding Scripture way too difficult. Me? Prefer to take Scripture as it is, plainly."

If you feel that it is too difficult to learn the Truth, then what can I say? You have to have a passion to learn about God. If you don't have it, then what can I say? If is was plain as you say, you would not need the word of God to be revealed to you by the Spirit. And if the Spirit of God prompts you to search the deep things of God, and you don't feel like it, then again, what can I say? There is rules to biblical interpretation if someone cares to know. Many don't care. They want to only believe what they want, still at emnity against God. Still in control of their own lives.
---Mark_V. on 10/29/12


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So, MarkV, when Genesis 6:6 says God regreted he made man, whichever man wrote that passage, invented it because it was about what he thought God was experiencing, not what God actually was?

Speaking of logic, apparently you believe that God, at the same time, was both feeling regret and not feeling regret, all based on the "fact" that from the human author's point of view God, from man's perspective, was feeling regret, despite the case he really wasn't because God doesn't regret anything, despite Scripture saying he did regret.

My, your eisegesis makes understanding Scripture way too difficult. Me? Prefer to take Scripture as it is, plainly.
---Marc on 10/28/12


Marc, you first say,
"You seem to forget Scripture's author is the Holy Spirit, God Himself."

God did not write Scripture, man did, God wrote the Ten Commandments with His finger, but "prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit" (2 Peter 1:21). and wrote down what the Spirit directed including their own feelings and needs, especially in the Psalms. When Job was begging God, it was Job who said,
"Lord, why do You cast off my soul? why do you hide Your face from me? (Job 88:14). God was not speaking, it was Job showing his own feelings. It's truth he felt that way and is the word of God he said that.
---Mark_V. on 10/28/12


Phil, **it originates nothing of itself**
So it was the blood that cause Adam to sin? (since the brain can't think for itself?) Absurd!
Now tell me that schizophrenia, bi-polar.autism, CP etc are "heart/blood" maladies!
Lack of oxygen to the brain can cause brain damage and death,what has this to do with the heart/blood?
Quadriplegics can have a very strong heart,but communication to the brain is severed and they are immobile!
---1st_cliff on 10/27/12


MarkV,

You seem to forget Scripture's author is the Holy Spirit, God Himself. So, Genesis 6:6 isn't about man writing about God as though he were man(that's your eisegetical framework being allowed to have first and final say), it's about God writing about Himself i.e. what He experienced when He saw the wickedness of man.

Warning MarkV: You are adding man-made philosophy to the Bible and not allowing its original author to speak unimpeded.

BTW, your immutable (even the word itself) attribution to God is itself a product of Aristotle's influence. A loving parent RESPONDS to his child's circumstances. They also alter their plans without losing an iota of their parenthood because love is more powerful and is what God is.
---Marc on 10/27/12


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"He's as slippery as an eel,but this comes from whoever mentored him!"
---1st_cliff on 10/27/12

John MacArthur: "In contrast to the unreliability of man so well seen in Balam himself, God is reliable and immutable. He does not change therefore His words always come to pass"

Mark V. always have an answer to any verse. He goes to his books and commentaries from Loraine Boettner, John MacArthur, AW Pink, etc., and then he lays what they wrote on you as if he was speaking, as if he could hold a conversation.
---Nana on 10/27/12


---1st_cliff on 10/26/12

I spoke nothing of transfusions. You are seeking a target I did not give you.

Lose sufficient blood, and the body goes into shock. If further bleeding is not abated, death will become inevitable.

Remove the blood, the body dies, the soul returns to sheol.

The brain receives impulses from what is in the blood. Hormones, adrenelinem, drugs, viruses, food, lack of food, etc.

The mind interprets things, gives image to what is senses through the fives senses.

It originates nothing of itself.

Artificial means to keep someone "alive" beyond any brain activity happens frequently in the medical world.

The mind "sees" the heart.
---Phil on 10/27/12


markv, we know all scripture is given by God. I believe every single word it says. I think when the bible speaks of heart it is speaking of our inner being and our soul. I do believe God puts people together. I met a wonderful pastor and wife on this site. I flew to see them and they have visited me twice. they are the greatest people and God is using both of them. God brought us together.
---shira4368 on 10/27/12


Marc, Notice how Mark fancy dances around the question then "fixes" it to suit his belief.IE "God's word is truth" then says he (Moses) wrote this from a man's perspective!
He's as slippery as an eel,but this comes from whoever mentored him!
---1st_cliff on 10/27/12


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Marc, are you happy you accuse me?
"As I said, your God is fall-out from Aristotle's paganism affecting the early Church."

(Gen. 6:6) is truth, in fact the whole bible is truth. The writer wrote the Lord was sorry He had made man on the earth and that it did grieve His heart for He is Holy and without blemish (Ex. 4:30). He was writing as if God were a man. Of which He is not, He is Spirit.
Numbers 23:19: "God is not a man that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent" Do you believe He lied here?
In contrast to the unreliability of man, so well seen in Balaam himself, God is reliable and immutable. He does not change, therefore His words always come to pass.
---Mark_V. on 10/27/12


Mark V,

You special plead when something about God doesn't accord with your philosophical filter. If Gen 6:6 isn't an accurate revelation of GOD'S reaction to the entire population being killed, then you've no basis for believing anything the Bible says about God is accurate. You prove FROM the Bible God didn't "lament because of [God's] own actions" (Gesenius).

Numbers 23:19 is about God not regretting placing a blessing on Israel. Balak wanted to curse Israel despite no evil being done by them. Genesis 6:6 and Numbers are describing two different historical incidents. CONTEXT!

As I said, your God is fall-out from Aristotle's paganism affecting the early Church.
---Marc on 10/26/12


Phil, Death is determined by brain activity not blood test!
Some people have undergone complete blood transfusion,which according to your post would mean they become a different person!
True the "Life"(soul) is in the blood,which Jesus poured out!
The heart is not capable of thinking ,it just pumps blood!
Do schizophrenics.bi-polar,autistics etc simply have a blood problem??
Come on Phil,get real!
---1st_cliff on 10/26/12


---1st_cliff on 10/26/12 ""all" emotion,decisions,beliefs, personality is housed in the brain."

The Holy Writings contradict your statement.

The necessity of heart functions are known, and the blood and heart are totally interconnected. One cannot "live" without the other.

The mind is a processor. It functions as interpreter of impressions from without and within. It has no personality. It is a channel, not an entity.

"For the soul of the flesh, it is in the blood". Lv 17:11

The soul is not in the brain. It is in the blood. The heart is truly the seat of the soul, and the mind a mere projector and processor.
---Phil on 10/26/12


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Mark V, You think by talking about the metaphorical heart is somehow "spiritual"
You obviously are not aware that much of the bible is written in "illustrations" Jesus used illustrations constantly because in those days most were not educated!
At the Sanhedrin the judge said ,about the disciples, "these are ignorant and unlearned men"
If you are not aware of your brain functions you need some more "educating".
---1st_cliff on 10/26/12


1Cliff, you deny the words of God concerning the heart? You are not speaking spiritual matters but a world view as the lost speaks. They never speak from the spiritual view. God says, that what comes out of your mouth is what was in the heart. You say no. God says yes,
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt, who can understand it" Jer. 17:9).

"For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man" (Mark 7:21-23).
You say no way, God is wrong, and you are right.
---Mark_V. on 10/26/12


cliff, my husband spent 23 years in the Air Force so I am use to thanking a vet for my freedom. you are right, our brains conducts all the feelings sort of like a brain on a car. that is why I always say be careful what you see and be careful you hear. thanks for the compliment...it is figurative.
---shira4368 on 10/25/12


He did ours and I didn't want Him too. It took 13 years, but He won. We have been married 49 years and had 33 years as missionary's and pioneered a medical work that would not have been possible if we hadn't been married. (I'm writing a book about it.)
---wivv on 10/25/12


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Shira, Thanks for your kind words,you're just a young chick and good looking still!
Using the words heart, flesh,soul etc is fine figuratively ,but "all" emotion,decisions,beliefs, personality is housed in the brain. What you feed the brain determines your course of action.
Look at the world around us at the billions of people that have fed their minds false religion.
Thankfully we were born in an area of freedom to pursue truth! Thank a Vet.
---1st_cliff on 10/25/12


cliff, I doubt if you were born before me. I am 73 years old and I know about the heart, blood, soul, faith, salvation, prayer and I even know the flesh sins. I don't care if everyone knows my age since it is mine and don't belong to any other. God bless you cliff.
---shira4368 on 10/25/12


Marc, don't know what's behind your reason for asking, is it to contradict the Word of God?
First, the Word of God was written for men, not for God. The writers spoke of God as if He were a man, so that we could understand Him better. Your question seems to imply that the Lord was wavering or had a change of purpose in the Eternal Self-existent One. But the sublime dictate of the inspired word is, "God is not a man, that He should lie, neither the Son of Man, that He should repent, Hath He said and shall He not do it? (Num. 23:19). The passage (Gen.6:6) and others are speaking by anthropopathy, after the manner of men, as if God were a man, the only way we could understand God, because God is Spirit and has no human parts.
---Mark_V. on 10/25/12


MarkV,

Still waiting for an answer for this: When the Lord declares "I am sorry I made man" (Gen. 6:7) and that he grieved in his heart because of this sorrow, did this feeling of sorrow arise at the moment he realised that men were so wicked that they had to be destroyed, OR, was the Lord always (i.e. from eternity) sorry that he had made man?
---Marc on 10/24/12


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MarkV, all of us who know scripture KNOW no one is first SET FREE from sin before they can believe.

Justification was also an OT way of "imputed" Righteousness. That is the righteousness of God. Don't confuse imputed with IMPARTED here.

Cuss and scream and throw a tantrum all you want MarkV. It does not change any truth that OT saints were called the JUST. "Just" meaning Justified.

They were not NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST who found that they had any power of sin broken over them.

That's why they sacrificed day after day, year after year.
---kathr4453 on 10/24/12


Kathr, you go on and on, and say, here it is, you are wrong, and give justification, faith, and all those passages and don't even know what you are talking about. Justification, faith to believe, repentance, and spiritual life all come from God. If it doesn't come, you have nothing.
Here is another thing, if the Holy Spirit does not testify of Christ to your heart, you also have nothing. You remain lost doing a lot of talking with no truth to what you say. Because it is the Holy Spirit who testifies of Christ. This also happened to the Old Testament saints, who believed by faith, it is because the Spirit testified to their hearts that Jesus is Lord and they believed.
---Mark_V. on 10/24/12


MarkV wants us to believe FAITH starting with Adam/Eve, Abel, that they were "SET FREE FROM SIN" before they could believe.

Now we have been over before that the blood of bulls and goats could not set one FREE FROM SIN.

The Blood of Bulls and Goats could not PURGE THE CONSCIENCE from dead works.

It COVERED until Christ came to do away with sin once and for all, and by setting us FREE from it's power through His death and resurrection.


So we know for a fact OT Saints were not "set free" from sin before they could believe, THEREFORE, that same FAITH that one CAN BELIEVE before one is "set free" from sin is still the same FAITH we have today.
---kathr4453 on 10/24/12


Romans 6:5 Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was. 6 We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin. 7 For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin.


This is what Markv curses. teh very word and truth of God.

MarkV has tried to climb over some other way.
---kathr4453 on 10/24/12


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They need for God to come into their hearts, to set them free from sin in order for them to believe. ---Mark_V. on 10/23/12

THIS is what you said MarkV.

Your Identification with Jesus in DEATH AND RESURRECTION LIFE is the ONLY thing that can SET YOU FREE FROM SIN.

Romans 6.

Your "Justification" doesn't SET YOU FREE FROM SIN markv.

God JUSTIFY THE "UNGODLY",

So stop cursing the Word of God.

You are first Justified by His Blood and THEN SAVED FROM SIN BY HIS LIFE!

Those who are grounded in the TRUTH of God's Word are not in the least intimidated by your ranting and ravings.

It only makes you look, well, IGNORANT of the Gospel!
---kathr4453 on 10/24/12


And what MarkV totally misses is the fact that:

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth "the ungodly," his faith is counted for righteousness.

This is the complete opposite of what Calvinists believe.

BEWARE!
---kathr4453 on 10/24/12


Kathr, you resort to lying everyday. Why don't you give it a rest? you now say,

"For mark to say God Crucified you to Christ BEFORE you ever heard of Christ is the biggest false bogus lie I have ever heard."

Its bogus because you said it, not I, everything you say is bogus. You invented it in your head. Because I never said God crucified you to Christ. Not one time. What comes out of your mouth is what is in your heart. Lies.
---Mark_V. on 10/24/12


They need for God to come into their hearts, to set them free from sin in order for them to believe. ---Mark_V. on 10/23/12


Our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection ALONEsets us FREE from the power of sin.

For mark to say God Crucified you to Christ BEFORE you ever heard of Christ is the biggest false bogus lie I have ever heard.

YOU are not Crucified with Christ BEFORE you have the ability to believe.

Being obedient to the Cross in total surrender comes after your Justification NOT BEFORE.
---kathr4453 on 10/23/12


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1Cliff, you say,

"Mark V,I know you mean well,but what you say is man-made scenario (religion)
God coming into your heart,the heart pumps blood through your body."

Cliff, it is you who speaks from man's perspective, not God's. I said you need spiritual understanding. When the Bible speaks concerning the heart, it is not talking about a physical heart,
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedinly corrupt, who can know it?" (Jer. 17:9). And again,
Make the heart of this people calloused, make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed" (Isa. 6:10).
---Mark_V. on 10/23/12


Shira, I was probably saved before you were born.
Do you know anything about the human body.
The heart (metaphorical) is the seat of emotion, "ALL" feelings and sensations come from the brain.
Many persons in our society today are "challenged" because their brain malfunctions in some areas.
Schizophrenia,bi-polar,down syndrome,CP etc...There's no hocus-pocus here. Back in the day, these people were thought to be possessed! This is the 21st century!
---1st_cliff on 10/23/12


cliff you need to be saved and you would know God comes into your heart.
---shira4368 on 10/23/12


Mark V,I know you mean well,but what you say is man-made scenario (religion)
God coming into your heart,the heart pumps blood through your body.
This is a metaphor for the mind. It's your mind that governs all your decisions.
The "mind"(brain) knows only what you feed it.Nothing spooky comes in there. All decisions,beliefs, actions depend on how your personality views it.
It's called "education" each new piece of info is either rejected or accepted by your personality!
---1st_cliff on 10/23/12


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MarkV,

So, would you like to answer my question?
---Marc on 10/23/12


---1st_cliff on 10/21/12 Phil has us as mindless pre-programed robots
God gives us "choises"!

I am in agreement with you in this regard: That God does not know absolutely what we will choose in a matter.

But He searches the heart, knows our thoughts, hears our voices, and knows the quadrillions of choices we've made in the past perfectly

He will arrange circumstances to get us where He want us to be. He works all according to the counsel of His will.

It appears we have free will. We are unaware of all that influences our choice.

God alone is uninfluenced in His goal to become All in all. He will make man in His image, and we will have to submit to that.
---Phil on 10/23/12


1Cliff, let me go through this again. Man has a choice and man has a will. He is free to make choices, in that no body is putting a gun to his head. Man also has a will, but all who are lost have their will enslaved to sin, because their hearts are enslave to sin, so their choices are alway govern by the desires of their father the devil. They will never choose Christ in that condition. They need for God to come into their hearts, to set them free from sin in order for them to believe. Believers are enslave to God. The desires from their heart are to do the will of God. Neither one has a free will. If man's will was free, we would be making spontanious choices, without reason or motive. God judges our motives.
---Mark_V. on 10/23/12


markv, you said it right yet again. God is all knowing, and He knows what we are going to do before we do it. He is God and His thoughts are not our thoughts and His ways are not our ways. He does give us free will to make choices and humans make many bad choices because we are corruptable flesh. thanks for holding your ground. that is rare on this sight. many are swayed to and fro with different winds of doctrine. Some here are well grounded like a tree with deep roots. thanks markv.
---shira4368 on 10/23/12


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Marc, first, have I ever insulted you or got personal with you? I think I have only answered you about four times. why the warning? If you want an answer to one passage I can give it to you, if you yourself stay within the rules, and not do what so many here do. YOur questions are not hard at all. So if you want to know about the Truth, all you have to do is ask. If I don't answer many others here will.
---Mark_V. on 10/22/12


Mark V, You have said many times that we do not have free will, now you say that "you have a mind and a will to make your own choices" That, my friend, is free will.
Mark ,you can't have it both ways!
You limit God's power,that He can choose, if he so wills, not to know certain outcomes of certain situations...you deny God that power???
You're saying He doesn't have that choice???
---1st_cliff on 10/22/12


MarkV,

When the Lord declares "I am sorry I made man" (Gen. 6:7) and that he grieved in his heart because of this sorrow, did this feeling of sorrow arise at the moment he realised that men were so wicked that they had to be destroyed, OR, was the Lord always (i.e. from eternity) sorry that he had made man?

Would you like to give an answer free of any ad hominem?
---Marc on 10/22/12


1Cliff, Did I ever say,

"Mark and Phil has us as mindless pre-programed robots"

never mentioned or suggested such a thing. You have a mind and a will, and make your choices, and held accountable for those choices. Yet even though you make your own choices, God alreadys knows what they are going to be, otherwise He would not be God. He would have to close His eyes, so that man can make his choice, implying two things, that God does not know everything and is gaining knowledge every time man makes a choice, and second that the Bible is not Truth. But,
"He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay His hand" (Dan. 4:35).
---Mark_V. on 10/22/12


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Mark and Phil has us as mindless pre-programed robots
Why did God plead with His people throughout the OT to change their ways (many times) if all things were pre known and pre arranged?
That alone should tell you that man decides his own fate.
God gives us "choises"!
---1st_cliff on 10/21/12


Andrew, I don't know how much you know about God, but let me say that God is in control of all things. All means all things. So God does bring relationships together and also permits them or allows them to break apart. Nothing happens without God either causing them to be, allowing them to be, or permitting them to be. His plan is complete already before Him. Nothing is missing. Nothing can change it either. What we are seeing through history is His plan unfolding before our eyes and it will end as He has purposed it.
---Mark_V. on 10/20/12


I believe God allows people to come into your life for a purpose.whomever God send into your way,its an opportunity to share the gospel and be a blessings to others.
---mj on 10/20/12


Yes, God does bring relationships together. However, I have found in my 60+ years that most people ignore God and do what they want when it comes to relationships. Makes for a lot of misery.
---KarenD on 10/19/12


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Of course. And God has a hand in everything, good or evil.
---pat on 10/19/12


yes . . . but it is for His purpose. So, we need to keep submitting to God so we are doing all He really wants, and not get all focused and isolated with some one or few special people. And we need others more mature and sound than we are, who are better for us than we are for each other in our relationship. So . . . do not get isolated, but also lose the independence (c: so we can get better in "submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21) God has us, in our Christian relating, in mutual submission with mutual trusting and depending the way God has this in His love.
---willie_c: on 10/19/12


Eph 1:11 ... according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.

Nothing is left to chance in this life. Nothing.

There is no such thing.

All things happen to us according to His sovereign will and timing. We make our choices, and He arranges things to suit His plans for us and His glory, even unbelievers.

All creation, all people, every creeping, flying, and swimming thing is operating according to the counsel of Him Who made all for His own glory.

If a mate is what you speak of, choosing one without His counsel is foolishness.
---Phil on 10/19/12


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