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The Gates Of Heaven

Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter into the "Gates of Heaven", but only those people who obey my Father in heaven. Please explan.

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 ---pat on 10/24/12
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---Phil on 11/20/12
You and your lying pastors says God seperated Israel from others

Let's see what God says:

Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people:

Seems God is insisting that he has made no such seperation between anyone who joins themself to Him

Isaiah 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar,

So either God is the liar or your preacher, I may be a slight bit bias here, but I say your preacher is the liar
---francis on 11/20/12


---Phil on 11/20/12
Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people:

Exodus 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it, and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Exodus 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them, and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.

Let me also point out some who served God and were not of Israel: Balaam, Melchizedek, Jethro priest of Midian

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
---francis on 11/20/12


---Phil on 11/20/12
You and your lying pastors says God seperated Israel from others

Let's see what God says:

Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people:

Seems God is insisting that he has made no such seperation between anyone who joins themself to Him

Isaiah 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar,

So either God is the liar or your preacher, I may be a slight bit bias here, but I say your preacher is the liar
---francis on 11/20/12


---francis on 11/19/12 "Soem how some lying preacher gave the impression that God had made a seperation by nations NOT SO AT ALL"

Dt 32:8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

You are easy, francis. Consistently so.
---Phil on 11/20/12


Phil, you again say,

"If you examine the Record, Israel is promised superiority and dominion over all nations and peoples. It is God's promise to them. He breaks no promises. He is not a man."

They were promised a lot of things "if" they complied with the commandments of God and they not only fail there, but they rejected the only hope they had, Jesus Christ, and died in their sins.
Second, in the Old Testament we find that the same gospel was preached to Abraham, Paul says in Gal. 3:8,9) "The Scriptures foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: All nations will be blessed through you"
---Mark_V. on 11/20/12




The secret of a joint body with equal standing inheriting the Kingdom of God was never prophecied in the so-called Old Testament.
---Phil on 11/18/12

the truth is there was NEVER a plan to seperate those who loved God by nationality. Soem how some lying preacher gave the impression that God had made a seperation by nations NOT SO AT ALL

Those who left egypt were of MIXED nationality:
Exodus 12:38 And a mixed multitude went up also with them, and flocks, and herds, even very much cattle.
---francis on 11/19/12


---Phil on 11/18/12

Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people:...their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar, for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.


Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people, to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Isaiah 49:6 I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
Isaiah 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising
---francis on 11/19/12


For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit---francis on 11/17/12

Circumcision has always signified stripping off the flesh. Abrahams attachment to fear, doubt, and reason, all acts of the flesh, resulted in God commanding him to institute this ritual to remind Abraham of His promise to him.

It came after Abraham left Ur, when faith was first awakened in him.

Faith is of the heart, not the flesh. It is spiritual, not soilish.

His "faith-seed" will inherit the universe, eventually his "earth-seed", Israel, will follow, but not before repudiating the ritual.
---Phil on 11/18/12


For he is our peace, who hath made both one,---francis on 11/17/12

The secret of a joint body with equal standing inheriting the Kingdom of God was never prophecied in the so-called Old Testament.

If you examine the Record, Israel is promised superiority and dominion over all nations and peoples. It is God's promise to them. He breaks no promises. He is not a man.

Our co-regency with Christ, where Jew and Gentile are equal is spiritual, in the heavens, not on the earth where only Israel can represent God according to promise.

The body of Christ is a new creation apart from Israel and according to faith, like Abraham. It is not on the earth.
---Phil on 11/18/12


Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all ONE in Christ Jesus.
---francis on 11/18/12




---Phil on 11/17/12
Romans 11:19 The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in

Phill 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit,

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one,

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God,

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
---francis on 11/17/12


Hebrews 10:16
---francis on 11/16/12

Hebrews has an introduction. Read it. It written is to the Jews, not to us.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

To whom this prophecy is directed is clear. It is not to us, the nations {Gentiles, KJV].

This will occur at His return to Olivet with the establishment of His Kingdom on earth. All who are of faith in Israel at that time will be given this promise supernaturally from God.

You may be a Jew, I know not. If you are in Christ, you no longer are.
---Phil on 11/17/12


The fallacy that God increases our ability to resist sin is humanism.
---Phil on 11/15/12
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

2 Thess 3:4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.

Hebrews 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,
---francis on 11/16/12


Mark 7:5-9 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
---J_Marc on 11/15/12


---pat on 11/15/12
yo don't even care to answer the question?
they are not accusation, but may help me geta clearer view of what you are talking about
---francis on 11/15/12


Are we not strengthen by God to keep his Laws?
---francis on 11/15/12

2C 12:9 for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

The fallacy that God increases our ability to resist sin is humanism. The creation boasting of its superiority and favor.

The crucifying of the flesh with the baptism into Christs' death, and the putting on of the new humanity come from grace on high.

Those who seek to foritfy themselves apart from death with Him seek their own glory.

Either we are His workmanship, or we are building on our own strength. Only death results in life.
---Phil on 11/15/12


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I did not say no such thing! Ugg.
---pat on 11/15/12


no person alive other then Jesus Christ can keep all the commandments. ---Mark_V. on 11/15/12

Does that mean we who claim to be children of God intentionally refuse to keep the commandments of God?

Where in the entire bible have you seen one verse that says that because we have in the past falling short we MUST continue to sin willfully?

Which commandment do you suggest that we set aside for breaking ?

What then do you consider the purpose of the Spirit living in us?

Why then does God say he will put his laws in our hearts if we are going to refuse to obey them?

Are we not strengthen by God to keep his Laws?
---francis on 11/15/12


---pat on 11/14/12
That being said and true. Does that mean we who claim to be children of God intentionally refuse to keep the commandments of God?

Where in the entire bible have you seen one single verse that says that because we have in the past falling short we MUST continue to sin willfully?

Which commandment do you suggest that we set aside for breaking, that we are so helpless as human being that every time in comes yup, we MUST choose to fall short?

What then do you consider the purpose of the Spirit living in us?

Why then does God say he will put his laws in our hearts if we are going to refuse to obey them?

Are we not strengthen by God to keep his Laws?
---francis on 11/15/12


francis, no person alive other then Jesus Christ can keep all the commandments. That is the reason all human descendants of Adam need Christ. I wish you got that through your head. You cannot be saved, if Christ didn't keep all the commandments or laws for you. No SDA keeps all the commandments God has given. Not even you. I believe you have been given enough truth to know that Only Jesus Christ has kept all of the commandments and the Law. You suggest you do not need Christ to keep the law for you, that you can keep it all on your own. You want to work your way into heaven, go for it, no one is stopping you.
---Mark_V. on 11/15/12


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MarkV>>>is correct. No one is complete in obeying God. We all come short, so short. We want to, but we fall so short. We need Him! We must ask God to help us, humans. We are so weak. God is strong. So strong. Please forgive us, and help us not to give up. Ah Jesus+
---pat on 11/14/12


If you are saying you keep all the commandments, you are declaring two things. First, that you do not need Christ,
---Mark_V. on 11/14/12

You are not even reading your bible, you are just making stuff up.
Revelation 12:17 keep the commandments of God, AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 keep the commandments of God, AND the
faith of Jesus.

Matthew 19:17 but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother:
---francis on 11/14/12


francis, when a believer follows the Spirit of the Law, they are in Christ. We only have one God, Almighty God. If you have another god, then you are not saved, and not one of His children. His children were predestined unto good works. Not bad works. Yet no genuine believer is without sin. So we are not perfect, but we are being sanctified by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of the Law, the Spirit of Christ. And when we fall into sin, we are not only convicted but also chasten.
"If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, "then you are illegitimate and not sons"
---Mark_V. on 11/14/12


francis, If you are saying you keep all the commandments, you are declaring two things. First, that you do not need Christ, the Spirit of the Law to keep the letter of the Law for you, that you can keep it yourself. Second, that you are not a partaker of chastening, you are illegitimate and not a son of God. No one can keep the law, the reason those without Christ are condemned already.
---Mark_V. on 11/14/12


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You can follow the Letter of the Law, or follow Christ. There is no two ways into heaven.
---Mark_V. on 11/13/12

Again the BIBLE contradicts you:

Revelation 12:17 keep the commandments of God, AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 keep the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus.

So tell me this how can you worship other gods, take God's name in vain, Worship idols, not keep the sabbath, dishonour your parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bare false witness, and covet and still be keepingthe spirit of the law?
---francis on 11/13/12


Hope this helps in your discussion! Hebrews 3:7-8 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, Today if ye will hear his voice,Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:Ezekiel 20:16-17 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my SABBATHS: for their heart went after their idols.Nevertheless mine eye spared them from destroying them, neither did I make an end of them in the wilderness.Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God.
---J_Marc on 11/13/12


francis, you don't understand spiritual matters. No law keeping will save you. No one can or could keep the whole law. Jesus Christ kept the whole law for all believers who are in Christ. All who are born of God, baptized into one Body in Christ, indwelled by the Spirit, and sealed by the Spirit. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ, period. We are saved by grace through faith. Faith is a gift of God.
You can follow the Letter of the Law, or follow Christ. There is no two ways into heaven. Only through Christ Jesus.
"He who believes in Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18).
---Mark_V. on 11/13/12


---Mark_V. on 11/12/12
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

he that said do not kill, also said remember the sabbath day. SOP stop being decieved, if you are not keeping ALL TEN you are trangresing the law and:James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy, and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
---francis on 11/12/12


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The blood ordinances that were against us were nailed to the cross,[ look carfully at deeds & works!] not the law of God! Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,Romans 3:20 Therefore by the DEEDS of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.Galations 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the WORKS of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the WORKS of the law: for by the WORKS of the law shall no flesh be justified.
---J_Marc on 11/12/12


Or were you saved by grace through faith? I myself was saved by grace through faith,
---Mark_V. on 11/12/12
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith,

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we transgress the law
, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
---francis on 11/12/12


---Mark_V. on 11/12/12
1: The bible never says that we cannot keep the law, therefore we should not keep the law. OT and NT becons all men to keep the law and obey the commandments

2: The new covenant was made with israel and judah, so the arguement that the laws given were for israel is hogwash. As a believer you have accepted a covenant made with israel adn Judah, you must abide by laws given to them

3: While keeping the law is not a path to salvation, those who live in open rebelion to God cannot be saved. We must REPENT from sin

You seem to be saying that you refuse to keep the law on the grounds that keeping the law will not save you. What you fail to understanding is that living in sin will not save you either
---francis on 11/12/12


Francis, all believers are obedient to God, that's what it means by keeping the commandments since no one can keep them all. They are obedient yet not perfect obedience for all come short of the glory of God. Nothing you do will ever get you into His kingdom, you need to be born again of the Spirit. And with that rebirth, the Spirit of Christ comes into your life and guides you unto all truth, teaching you how to be obedient. He gets the glory, not you. The works you do after you are saved are credited to God the Spirit, for without Him you could do nothing good, for all good things come from above. Keeping the letter of the Law, or going to church on Saturday's will not save you.
---Mark_V. on 11/12/12


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francis, I noticed, the passages to argue, come from the Old Testament, laws given to Israel. Accept for a few, all died in their sins. They could not keep the whole law. Then I noticed that when you give a passage from the N. Test., it always has to do with keeping the Commandments, still preaching the law. We are not under the letter of the Law, we are under the Spirit of the Law, that's why you never mention Jesus Christ in your answers. He is not a part of your faith. Were you saved by keeping the Law? Your own works? Or were you saved by grace through faith? I myself was saved by grace through faith, nothing I never did warrranted salvation. on the other hand, you believe by keeping all the law, Saturday Sabbath, you should get rewarded.
---Mark_V. on 11/12/12


The reason we all need Christ to keep the Law for us. When you begin to preach the Spirit of the Law, then you will have a case, otherwise you are stuck under the Law.
---Mark_V. on 11/11/12
Would you also say the same of Paul and John?
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus.
---francis on 11/11/12


---Mark_V. on 11/11/12
Matthew 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother...

Deuteronomy 4:13 And he ( GOD) declared unto you his covenant, which he( GOD) commanded you to perform, even ten commandments,

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers,.. concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

So you can see how the TEN COMMANDMENTS are the same as the commandments of God

Nowhere have i EVER said that anyone of the ten is more important

What I have said and what you will find in James 2:8-11, and matthew 5 16-18 is that if you break any of the ten, that you are guilty of breakingthe whole law
---francis on 11/11/12


francis, your so far away from your thoughts when you give (Rev 12,14) as an answer since those are future events. They have not happened yet. Do you not see your other problem? First you believe "keep the commandments" means the Ten Commandments, then you think that the most important one is Saturday Sabbath, and if you can keep that one, you are keeping all the commandments. Which is a foolish thing to think, since all, I mean all, come short of the glory of God. SDA's also, the reason we all need Christ to keep the Law for us. You need Him more because you preach the letter of the Law, instead of the Spirit of the Law. When you begin to preach the Spirit of the Law, then you will have a case, otherwise you are stuck under the Law.
---Mark_V. on 11/11/12


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Your problem is that you are stuck under the law.... No one can, not even SDA's like you. I'm even positive you cannot keep the Ten Commandments.
---Mark_V. on 11/10/12

Revelation 12:17 the remnant which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

See how far away from God you are in your thoughts?
In your thoughts you accuse SDA of teaching the keeping f the ten commandments
Why do you not accuse John who wrote the above scripture of the same? Why do you not say that not even john who wrote these verses could keep the commandments of God?
---francis on 11/10/12


francis, I have not missed the Christian experienced. I have been obedient to the Lord. What you have missed is the right interpretation of "keep the commandments" which really means been obedient. They are not perfect because no one is. The very reason we all need Christ.
What you are missing is Christ. Who takes away the sins of those who believe through faith, who are born again by the grace of God.
Your problem is that you are stuck under the law. When you read keep the commandments you assume they are the Ten Commandments, but no one keeps all the commandments of God. No one can, not even SDA's like you. I'm even positive you cannot keep the Ten Commandments.
---Mark_V. on 11/10/12


Mark_V. on 11/9/12
Very simple, here is what you have been missing in your " christian" experience:
Revelation 12:17 the remnant..which keep the commandments of God, AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 The saints: keep the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus.


James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
---francis on 11/9/12


francis, don't you see the hypocrisy of your answer. You say,

"Lets see now, they were able to preach in the name of the Lord, and even cast of devils in his name. Clearly they had FAITH in Jesus."

So what you are saying is that people who are saved by grace through faith, meaning God knew them as His children, and then tells them He never knew them you make God a liar. They are born of the Spirit, indwelled by the Spirit, sealed by the Spirit, and promised that Jesus will never leave them, and you say they will not enter heaven. You are getting worse with your answers.
To those who have faith Jesus will sustain them to the end, blameless in the Day of the Lord, (1 Cor. 1:7-9).
---Mark_V. on 11/9/12


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Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Lets see now, they were able to preach in the name of the Lord, and even cast of devils in his name. Clearly they had FAITH in Jesus. What kept them from the kingdom was not that they wanted to be saved by works, but that they did not keep the law, they practiced lawlessness

people like that usually reject the ten commandments and claim that they do not need the law because the law cannot save. Here you see God rejecting them because they reject his laws
---francis on 11/7/12


Francis, if you understood the first passage you gave, you would understand what I was saying concerning works. Let me post it again,

"Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"

This were all wonderful works, the people claimed they had done for the Lord. And what did Jesus say in the very next passage?

"And then I will declare to them, I never knew you, depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."

They did a lot of wonderful works for the Lord and also practice lawlessness. Their works could not save them. That is why they practice lawlessness.
---Mark_V. on 11/7/12


Just want to say, "I liked what MarkV wrote".
---pat on 11/7/12


Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

YE THAT WORK INIQUITY:
INITUITY: Strong's Greek Definition for # 458

AV - iniquity 12, unrighteousness 1, transgress the law
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness


---Mark_V. does that help you understand that they claim to be christiasn but do not obey the law?
---francis on 11/6/12


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francis, you say,

"Many people claim to be christians and are unwilling to do what the father said.
They are not willing to obey all that laws fo God, yet they call themseves christian"


Also many call themselves Christians because they believe they can keep all of the laws of God, but they are deceived. No one can. Only Jesus could, and the reason He came. Many true Christians are willing to keep all of the laws, but know they are unable to. The question is not works of the law, the question is if you are save at all. If you are saved, then you will perform the works God foreordained for you to do. Not perfect works but works nevertheless where Christ gets the glory, not man.
---Mark_V. on 11/6/12


Thank you for calling me to this attention: "Why do you call Me, Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say? [Luke 6:46]. "If I am master, where is your RESPECT?" says the Lord of hosts to you, O priests who despise My name....CONDENSED [Malachi 1:6].
---pat on 11/5/12


Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter into the "Gates of Heaven", but only those people who obey my Father in heaven. Please explan.
---pat on 10/24/12

Many people claim to be christians and are unwilling to do what the father said.

They are not willing to obey all that laws fo God, yet they call themseves christian

Revelation 21:21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls, every several gate was of one pearl:

They will never enter through those gates
---francis on 11/4/12


The Christ as Messiah spoke this to Jews seeking to obtain all that was promised to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and in the Covenant of Sinai.

The terms were rejected [Matt 5-7, Jn 6:66] and the King denied His rightful place by the people He came to save [Mt 1:21 Jn 1:11]

During that period, grace and truth came through pardon of the King, not the cross. They killed Him instead.

Most did not see themselves in need of the Physician. The "race card" would not be enough to enter the coming Kingdom.

Mk 9:38 shows others with Kingdom powers given them, not only the disciples.

His statement applies to the past and future, not the present grace period.
---Phil on 11/4/12


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//---aka on 11/3/12//

Good to see you brother,
Blessing to you and your family ---- whole and complete.

Shalom
---char on 11/3/12


From Elohym as the Creator.

His Word In Flesh(Jesus Christ-Word-anointed) is the path/way to follow---for all Gods spirits He created - and - breathe into the clay-He formed.

-char

without a doubt.
---aka on 11/3/12


//Has anyone thought about where the breathe of life in every person on the planet comes from?---g on 10/30/12//--------

-----Yes.

From Elohym as the Creator.

His Word In Flesh(Jesus Christ-Word-anointed) is the path/way to follow---for all Gods spirits He created - and - breathe into the clay-He formed.

It is the very reason he has placed us in flesh-and--the very reason he has place [His Word] in Flesh
[Emanuel (God with us)] walked that path, and set the examples that one is to follow.

Blessing to you.

Shalom
---char on 11/2/12


g, you say,

"What do you do about all the passages that say that all who are in Christ and he in them are no longer sinners but SAINTS?"

Those passages that say we are not sinners means, we are not dead in trespasses and sins anymore because of Christ. I know because there is no one without sin. The only Person without sin is Jesus. So it cannot mean we are sinless. Scripture distinguishes two kinds of people, the child of God and the child of the satan, the unbeliever and the believer, the wicked and the righteous, the sinner without Christ and the righteous with Christ. If the writers of Scripture did not distinguish between the two and just said sinners, you would not know who the writer is talking about.
---Mark_V. on 11/1/12


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MarkV,
What do you do about all the passages that say that all who are in Christ and he in them are no longer sinners but SAINTS?

Have you thought truly about why Christ did what he did with the pharisees and saducees?
They refused to LISTEN. That is why they were not forgiven. Their hearts were hard and not because God made them that way either.
They believed their saviour would be a true earthly king like David. They did not realize Jesus came to save us from sin not the rule of Rome.

Learn to study the "who, what, why, and how" of the Bible. God will show and give tremendous understanding.
---g on 10/31/12


Nana, I am not the Christ. I cannot act like He did then. I am a sinner, He is holy. Even though I am a sinner saved by the grace of God, I do have compassion, maybe not as Jesus, but I do have compassion for those who are sick and need spiritual healing.
You said,
"Why don't you follow his example instead of exempting yourself having compassion and denying that the Lord has compassion on all men?"
I never denied Jesus had compassion on the people. I said he did. But did He forgive everyone? No He did not. Here is why Nana:
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day." Only those are going to be raised up. The selection is of the Father.
---Mark_V. on 10/30/12


"When the human Person of Christ was present, He had compassion on all people."
Mark_V. on 10/30/12

Why don't you follow his example instead of exempting yourself having compassion and denying that the Lord has compassion on all men?

"When Jesus sent the disciples out..." The promise had to go first to Israel, the children before the dogs..."
Yet, that incident with the woman of Canaan, ushered the way in which the Gentile rest would be welcomed,
though faith, (Matthew 15:28).
John 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
---Nana on 10/30/12


Nana, I don't know why you would say that the Lord is not selective. You must not be reading the same Bible. When the Lord chose Israel over the other nations, all those people from other nations died in their sins.
When Jesus healed the Paralytic and forgave his sins, he did not forgive the sins of the scribes who were there, they died in their sins. He could have forgiven them all if He so wanted, but didn't. When Jesus sent the disciples out to the lost sheep of Israel, and not to go to the Gentiles, all Gentiles who died, died in their sins. So what Bible are you reading? Everything in Scripture is selective by God. When the human Person of Christ was present, He had compassion on all people. But He did not save all people.
---Mark_V. on 10/30/12


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The iniquities of the man is a given, or haven't you learnt anything about the fall?--- Christan

Do you realize you are saying God is the Author of Sin? That he made man to sin?
The Bible is clear that God is not what you are saying here.
God is NOT the author of sin nor did he make man to sin.
God knew man would sin. That is a very big difference.
We need to reconcile scripture properly. If it contradicts what God says, it is not correct.
Not saying you are wrong, but we need to realize that sin comes from man , not God.

Has anyone thought about where the breathe of life in every person on the planet comes from?
---g on 10/30/12


Nana, to answer your question, yes I believe all of the multitude were elect of God. I believe that God elected (chose out) a people from before the foundation of the world just as Paul testifies in Ephesian chapter 1. What most people do not realize is that the vast majority of people are the elect of God. John the Revelator tells us that he saw a multitude in heaven that no man could number. God told Abraham that he seed would be as the sands on the sea shore and as the stars of heaven.
---trey on 10/29/12


Mark 6:34 "And Jesus, when he came out, saw much people, and was moved with compassion toward them, because they were as sheep not having a shepherd: and he began to teach them many things."

Matthew 15:32 "Then Jesus called his disciples unto him, and said, I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way."

Was he making exception of persons there, electing one over the other? No, he had compassion on the "multitudes". Why do you teach selective compassion?

Were all the 'multitude' of the 'elect?
---Nana on 10/27/12


\\Surprisingly many today think my little jest is actually the way it is!
---1st_cliff on 10/25/12\\

Alas, how true.

The need for instruction should not be understood in a gnostic sense. "My people are perishing for lack of knowledge."

God will meet us if we want Him to do so, regardless of how little we know--but I don't think He wants us to remain ignoramuses. As St. Paul said in several different contexts, "I would not have you be ignorant...."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/25/12


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"The rejection is stated as being on account of their work of iniquity." Nana

The iniquities of the man is a given, or haven't you learnt anything about the fall? Don't you understand Paul's epistle in Romans 9 about election? Can't you connect Paul's teachings to Christ's rejection as spoken in His Gospel. Mind you, there's no contradiction in either teachings. It merely confirms election by grace is how the sinner is being saved.

Didn't you notice that Christ was speaking of something that's not happened yet in Matthew 7? Do you even believe it's going to happen? I do. That's because it's God's will and purpose. It will be fulfilled. Isn't that predestination? Or is it by chance? You decide...
---christan on 10/26/12


Of workers of iniquity Paul says,
Galatians 5: 21 "... of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

Ridiculous that 'never loved' jazz in light of Jesus saying, "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you, That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven."

"That ye may be the children of your Father" , future tense, conditional. basically love all mankind. How unlike your exclusivity pitch sad election bit!
---Nana on 10/25/12


"...can you show me where Jesus said that He kept the whole law on our behalf?" barb

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matthew 5:17. And the Christian believing in Christ through faith earns him/her the righteousness of Christ. Isn't then His death on behalf of the Christian? "...For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23

Does this answer your unbelief in what Christ came to do for His people? It's truly plain and simple isn't it? It says so in the Scriptures.
---christan on 10/25/12


"Why are they rejected? Because, "I never knew you" which means "He never loved them"."
---christan on 10/25/12

There you go reading into the verse your own bias.
"I never knew you" which means "He never loved them".
The rejection is stated as being on account of their work of iniquity.
---Nana on 10/25/12


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Matthew 7:21-23 is very sobering declaration by Christ. This is when He comes to judge, which has not yet happened.

Analyse the text and you'll realise He's speaking to those who claim to be Christians, but does not belong to Him. Verse 22 tells us, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"

But only to be rejected by Christ in verse 23, "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Why are they rejected? Because, "I never knew you" which means "He never loved them".
---christan on 10/25/12


Cluny, I like the fact that you stressed "education" as one of the requirements of Christianity.
Education sweeps away myth and legend. Altho His disciples were basically illiterate He educated them personally because they were surrounded by false cults just like we are!
Surprisingly many today think my little jest is actually the way it is!
---1st_cliff on 10/25/12


Entering the kingdom of heaven! Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 1st John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. Matthew 15:7-9 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
---J_Marc on 10/25/12


Mark V, can you show me where Jesus said that He kept the whole law on our behalf? And if it is impossible for us to keep them then why did John write in 1st John 5:3 that the love of God is that we keep His commandments and they are not grievous?

Do you believe that God gave Israel ten commandments knowing that they could not possibly keep them? If so why did He do that and why did He become so angry with them when they disobeyed the commandments if He knew they could not be kept?

Could you also explain Rev. 12:17? Who are the remnant who keep the commandments of God and have the words of Jesus? Are they the same ones as in Rev. 14:12?

---barb on 10/25/12


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barb, you are so wrong. We are not saved by completely keeping the commandments. We cannot be save by keeping the Law. If you break one you have broken them all. No one can keep the whole law. Only Jesus Christ kept the whole Law in our behalf. We could never save ourselves.
We are saved by Grace through faith. Those that God saves by Grace are destine unto good works. If they are not doing good works it is because they are not saved. Your anology of salvation is a salvation of works of complete obedience, and no man does complete obedience. In your theology no one would be saved, not even you.
---Mark_V. on 10/25/12


\\I've heard stories since I was a child that Saint Peter stands at the Pearly Gates to "check you in"
If he's not satisfies with your answers he sends you down below where the devil with his pitch fork and red union suit stokes the fires!\\

Neither have been official Christian teaching, though most adults run around with a child's eye view of Christianity because they have not really searched to see what Christian doctrines are held by educated, spiritually mature adults.

And by rightly rejecting these "childish things," they actually think they have gone beyond Christianity.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/24/12


I've heard stories since I was a child that Saint Peter stands at the Pearly Gates to "check you in"
If he's not satisfies with your answers he sends you down below where the devil with his pitch fork and red union suit stokes the fires!
You sayin' this aint true??
---1st_cliff on 10/24/12


I would say that we obey Jesus' Father in Heaven the same way that Jesus obeyed Him. John 15:10 "If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love, even as I kept my Father's commandments and abide in His love." We will not enter Heaven unless we obey God and follow His requirements for admission.

Jesus goes on to tell us in Matt 7:24 how to be wise and obey His Father. We must Listen to His (Jesus') words and put them into practice so that we are like the wise man who built his house on a rock. Jesus came to earth to give us His Father's Word. John 3:10-14.

None of us will enter the Kingdom if we are not keeping the commandments of God and holding to the testimony of Jesus. Rev 12:17.
---barb on 10/24/12


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Mt 7:22 Many will be declaring to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Was it not in Your name that we prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many powerful deeds?

This warning is to the Jews of the Lord's time on earth, it is not spoken to us.
Hb 6:4 is also a parallel on this topic.

The setting will be on earth, pertains to the Jews, and their rejection of the offer of the Kingdom.

Mt 4:17 From that time began Jesus to proclaim and to say, 'Reform ye, for come nigh hath the reign of the heavens See Dn 7:27

Heralding of the Kingdom ended with Israel's defection. Ac 28:28,

The body of Christ becomes preeminent from this point.
---Phil on 10/24/12


Yeah, Cluny, nonetheless, you know what Pat meant! lol. The Verse is saying that there will be those who, while on Earth, claimed to be Christians, and did things by the Power of the Spirit sometime in their lives for the Kingdom's sake, but, were disobedient in other areas, perhaps (a) secret sin(s) that they were not willing to repent of, etc., but, they did not submit themselves wholly unto the LORD as they should have. Secret, known sins will not be tolerated by the LORD, they must be dealt with and repented of, or they will lead to Eternal Damnation. OSAS notwithstanding.
---Gordon on 10/24/12


You would do better to quote the verse properly before you asked people to explain it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/24/12


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