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Bible Methods Or Holy Spirit

Has your traditional methods of Bible interpretation (hermeneutics) led you away from the understanding that the Holy Spirit gives to believers?

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 ---J_Marc on 10/30/12
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Hi samuelbb7. See my post 11/7/12 for some definitions of sin. We need to use God's definitions of sin as they are specific. Man's definitions are ambiguous.

Regarding 1John 1:8, read the chapter from beginning and not it's evangelical context.
1John 1:2,3, "bear witness and show unto you that eternal life....declare we unto you....that ye also may have fellowship....with the Father, and with His Son"

And 1John 1:6 "If we say we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness (without Christ), we lie, and do not the truth".

1John 1 declares eternal life to unbelievers. This is the context of 1John 1:8. It speaks of the sin of unbelief (John 16:9) which is the sin the world is convicted of.
---Haz27 on 11/8/12


1 john 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

So you say that John the Apostle was wrong. Being a sinner does cause me to deny the work of JESUS. What it does is remind me of how much I love JESUS.
---samuelbb7 on 11/8/12


If we say we are still sinners, we deny the work of the cross. We deny Christ.
---duane on 11/8/12


StrongAxe: Regarding 1Tim 1:15 Paul spoke about mankind's record as sinners BEFORE conversion. All Christians have a FORMER record as sinner's. Paul spoke about his FORMER record amongst "sinners, of whom I am chief". 1Tim 1:13 clarified that it referred to his blasphemy, persecution, etc. As he's no longer doing this what "sin" do you suggest he's in, to be "chief" sinner/Christian?

BTW, I use KJV.

The claim that Christians sin is not in scripture.
To sin means you're a:
Servant of sin, John 8:34
Of the devil, 1John 3:8
You have not seen Him nor known Him, 1John 3:6

Scripture confirms Christians have "ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1), "cannot sin" (1John 3:9).
---Haz27 on 11/8/12


Nana:

We are still sinners, just redeemed sinners.


Haz27:

You said: StrongAxe. You referred to 1Tim 1:15 about Paul's claim of "chief sinner".
BUT this was PAST tense.


1 Ti 1:15: KJV: "... sinners, of whom I am chief."
I am not saying what I think Paul meant, just what he actually wrote. If he meant something else, why would he not have said so?

I also checked Biblegateway. Of 25 English, 2 French, 2 German, 1 Latin, 2 Russian, 11 Spanish, and 1 Ukrainian translations, ALL use the present tense except one single one: the Contemporary English version. (I can't speak for others, languages I am unfamiliar with).

Which translation do YOU use?
---StrongAxe on 11/8/12




Mark Eaton. You may have missed some of my posts but I have addressed Rom 7 and have also been explaining context of verses etc. The charge of "cherry-picking" is unfounded.

I pray you'll ask God for wisdom (James 1:5) rather than trusting man's wisdom (1Cor 2:13). God's word is Spirit (John 6:63), and not Greek/Hebrew.

Mark V, you're correct that God disciplines us when we do wrong. BUT this "wrong" is NOT sin. You've seen my earlier post defining "sin". Which of those "sins" can Christians be charged with? We've been justified by God so who can lay any charge against God's elect, Rom 8:33.
His seed (Christ) is in Christians so we cannot sin as we are born of God, 1John 3:9.
---Haz27 on 11/8/12


Scripture confirms scriptures and you have seen here that they confirm we "cannot sin", in Christ
---Haz27 on 11/7/12

There are just too many flaws in your doctrine for me to address. Too much arrogance and too much misunderstanding of Scripture. I cannot fully address them in 125 words or in 25000 words. Your heart is hardened and only God can soften it.

In proving your points you cherry-pick Scriptures while omitting others that disprove your theory in the same passages. You need to read the whole Bible, not selected verses. You quote Romans chapter six as a proof yet omit Romans chapter seven.

I feel sad for you and will not engage you in these blogs again on your pet doctrine.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/8/12


Haz, Mark E, gave you good advice. yet you keep saying,

"We agree on this. The physical is not perfect BUT, it's DEAD because of sin anyway,"
Your sinful physical body is dead because of sin, and you are walking in your body.
Haz, if you are saved, the Holy Spirit is not working in your life. How do I know? Because it is the Spirit that brings us to all Truth, us believers who still live in the flesh. Things you never knew were sinful, the Spirit brings it to your attention, by convicting you, and you come to realize what you did was wrong and you change if you are truly saved. All through your life He is sanctifying you to be more Christ like. Open your heart to the Truth. Let the Truth in.
---Mark_V. on 11/8/12


Mark V. I just want you to know that you are correct saying that the label "sinner" refers to the lost. Where you erred is in claiming that Paul was a sinner. I hope you can see that 1Tim 1:15 Paul's "chief sinner" claim was referring to his past as a blasphemer, persecutor, etc as described in verse 13.

Mark Eaton, you referred to James 4:17 To him who knows to do good and does it not, to him is it sin. BUT you misunderstand.
Read all of chapter for context. It addresses spiritual adulterers (verse 4) under the law (verse 12). A salvation call is made to them (verse 7,8).
So, to do good is to believe on Jesus. Unbelief is sin, John 16:9
---Haz27 on 11/8/12


Mark Eaton. Regarding 1Pet 4:2, Christians don't live for the lusts of men (self-righteousness). Instead we follow the will of God, which is believing on Jesus, John 6:40.

1Pet 4:1 contradicts your view. We've CEASED from sin, which confirms "CANNOT sin" (1John 3:9) and "FREED from sin" (Rom 6:7).
As ONLY PAST sin was remitted at the cross (Rom 3:25) this confirms that in Christ we CANNOT sin.
If this wasn't true then HOW would subsequent sin be dealt with?

Rom 6:2 asks: "HOW shall we that are DEAD to sin, live in it any longer?"
Yet you contradict this claiming we still sin.
BUT we're DEAD to sin (Rom 6:7) and thus we're FREED/CEASED/CANNOT sin, as scripture confirms.
---Haz27 on 11/7/12




Mark Eaton. Let's consider the definitions of "sin" and whether they apply to Christians.

Transgression of the law, 1John 3:4. Can we be charged with this?
NO. We're not under it, Rom 8:2, Gal 5:18, and where there's no law there's no transgression, Rom 4:15.

Unrighteousness, 1John 5:17?
NO. We're righteous in Christ

Unbelief, John 16:9?
No. We believe on Jesus.

So, who shall lay any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies, Rom 8:33.

Why contradict scripture and say that Christians CAN be charged with sin?
Scripture confirms scriptures and you have seen here that they confirm we "cannot sin", in Christ
---Haz27 on 11/7/12


Mark Eaton. You said: "We are righteous, holy, and perfected in Christ spiritually now"

We agree on this. The physical is not perfect BUT, it's DEAD because of sin anyway, Rom 8:10. We're NOW a new spiritual creation, perfected, holy, sanctified, righteous and cannot sin.
Our bodies are yet to be redeemed.

As to your claim no scripture says "cannot sin", there are a number of Bible versions which contradict you, as you already know.
BUT, the fact you have been unable to justify your "habitual" sin doctrine confirms that it's false.
The "habitual" view fails in that it contradicts the gospel and it's ambiguous with nobody able to explain what determines habitual.

---Haz27 on 11/7/12


Christ said,be ye perfect as your father is in heaven.
Some would say were all sinners and remain so tell death. We are not freed from sin. we are sinners forever.
Or sin remains but we are freed from punishment. Be perfect or complete but still sin. Nothing will take sin away according to many. We have imputed sin always. Its always with us. Forget the blood of Christ, its a bad interpetation.
---calhoon on 11/7/12


we "cannot sin" (1john 3:9), "ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1).
---Haz27 on 11/6/12

You have a misunderstanding of what the Bible says.

There is no verse that says we "cannot sin". Paul and Peter and none of the Apostles attained perfection before they died.

Secondly, NASB translates 1 John 3:9 as "practices sin". 1 Peter 4:1 in context says "has ceased from sin so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God" which is a future relection.

Believers have ceased from sin to live for God, but may stumble along the way. James 3:2 says we ALL stumble in many things.

Are you not part of the ALL in James 3:2?
---Mark_Eaton on 11/7/12


What's your definition of sin?
---Haz27 on 11/6/12

We are righteous, holy, and perfected in Christ spiritually now, but we will only realize it physically after we die. In God's view it is completed, in our view it is still being lived out.

Why else does Jesus tell us to crucify the flesh daily?

Sin is not an easy definition. You say anything that God says not to do. Yet, God tells us to love others as ourselves but do you really do this? God tells us to think more highly of others than ourselves but how many times have you taken your position in a line and not given it to someone else? Did you think more of them or of yourself?

To the one who knows the right thing to do and does it not, to him is it sin.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/7/12


Haz, you don't have the Truth, nor do you have the Word in you. Your doctrine of sinlessness is fake. From the day you were born you are a sinner. And will remain one till you die, when your physical, corrupt body dies. It will not be able to sin anymore. Our salvation is spiritual. We are spiritually united with Christ forever. He will never leave you. But you do not have the Word. How can that be possible for you? Next time you accuse someone wrongly as you did Warwick, remember it was a sin. So the words you sometime speak are sinful. They show who you really are, and anyone can see that.
---Mark_V. on 11/7/12


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Mark V. I'm sure you've noticed the contradictions of your doctrine. You claim the label "sinner" refers to the unsaved, but then you say Paul was "chief sinner".
Also the "chief sinner" claim puts Paul in the "habitual" sin category which, according to your doctrine, suggest he's lost.

Please consider that your disagreement is not with me but against God's word. Your doctrine lacks scriptural support and has many contradictions. It is error.

Mark Eaton, likewise. That "habitual" sin doctrine is a contradiction and unsupported in scripture. Please consider that God means what His word says, we "cannot sin" (1john 3:9), "ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1).
---Haz27 on 11/6/12


Haz, I don't know Pauls sins, just like I don't know yours, what I do know is that he admitted he was a sinner, and you don't. Christ is the only sinless Person. I do know Paul was a sinner because the Word of God tells me. It also tells you, but you refuse to believe it, because you believe you are without sin. Which tells me the Truth is not in you. You might be a great guy, but there are many great guys without the truth. This are not my words but the Bibles. When you admit you are a sinner, you will then know and feel the need for Christ.
You see Haz, without Christ, I cannot make it on my own. I know I need him, because I was declared righteous, not made righteous.
---Mark_V. on 11/6/12


Christ came into the world to (save sinners) OF whom I am chief or first of. He was NOT a chief sinner. Paul was a sinner who got saved. Anyone who thinks Paul meant he is the chief of sinners doesnt understand what Christianity is about. We were all sinners but now have life through Christ.
---duane on 11/6/12


Mark Eaton. If you claim 1John 3:6-9 speaks about "habitual" sin, then Christians who do this (such as those examples I gave before) are clearly unsaved and of the devil, based on that "habitual" translation applied to that scripture.
That's the only conclusion that can be drawn from 1John 3:6-9 when using the "habitual" sin view.
I highlight this to draw out how the "habitual" sin translation is clearly error.

BTW, I never said we're perfect in conduct. I've given definitions of sin and shown how we're now righteous, perfected, sanctified and holy IN CHRIST. As for the imperfect physical body, it's dead because of sin, Rom 8:10.

What's your definition of sin?
---Haz27 on 11/6/12


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Mark V. In Topic "Seminary makes non-Christians" you said: "the Bible in order to distinguish between the saved and the lost uses the word sinners to identify thos without Christ".

As you say Paul claims to be "chief sinner" in present tense, then by your own words, Paul must be the chief amongst those without Christ, being that you claim "sinner" refers to unsaved.

Mark Eaton & Mark V. Rom 3:25 says it was PAST sin that was remitted. How do you suggest subsequent sin is dealt with when ONLY PAST sin was remitted?

As ONLY PAST sin was remitted then this confirms 1Pet 4:1 we've "CEASED from sin", and 1John 3:6-9 "CANNOT sin". Christ truly set us free from sin.
---Haz27 on 11/6/12


Do you see the contradiction in your doctrine?
And have you ever committed the same "sin" more than once?
---Haz27 on 11/5/12

First, this is not my "doctrine" but an understanding of Scripture.

Secondly, you have a conflict with this because of YOUR doctrine, which is that believers do not sin following salvation.

While I believe your theory plausible, I find it highly unlikely. If we could be perfect by our conduct, what need is there for God? What need for a daily dependence upon Him? What need to daily crucify the flesh and follow Him?

It is the constant reminder of sin in our lives that forces our dependence upon God. Without Him, I can do nothing.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/6/12


By your doctrine these "Christians" are unsaved due to some AMBIGUOUS level of sinning.
---Haz27 on 11/5/12

Who said anything about Christians being unsaved?

Not I. I do not judge whether a person is saved or lost. Only God sees the heart and can know.

As for people who declare they can judge by the "fruit" of a persons life, I say they are fooled by their own arrogance. They wish to play God and judge another.

I refer everyone back to the Parable of the Sower. Three out of four seeds grew for a time. To us as observers, all three lives would look like believers at that time. But yet only one out of the three makes it to maturity and bears fruit.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/6/12


How can some be so ignorant to say Paul was chief sinner after being made righteous.
Jesus came to put away sin and not imput sin anymore.
There are some here who want to do away with the Cross. Makes me sick.
---duane on 11/6/12


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Mark V. You misunderstand scripture. HOW can Paul STILL be chief sinner, as a Christian? He's not blaspheming and persecuting, etc any more. CLEARLY this is what he referred to in regards to the claim of chief sinner. He referred to his PAST.

As you think Paul remained a chief sinner, then what "sin" do you suggest he's still in to remain "chief"?
Also, if Paul is STILL chief sinner then that suggests he's in "habitual" sin which according to your doctrine, he's LOST due to "habitual" sin.

You've seen many scriptures now all confirming each other that in Christ we cannot sin. And you've been unable to support your claim that we still sin. Why continue to deny Christ set us free from sin?
---Haz27 on 11/6/12


Haz, you again change the context of the passages by giving (1 Tim. 1:13) to oppose what he later said about his present condition as a sinner in (v.15,16).
But (v.13) that you gave you forgot to read all the passage. "although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man, but I obtained mercy because "I did it ignorantly in unbelief"
That was before he was saved.
Then he says after he is saved,
"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance," (he is talking about now that he is saved) that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief"
For that reason He obtained mercy. And he is not ignorant of sin, because he now believes.
---Mark_V. on 11/6/12


StrongAxe. You referred to 1Tim 1:15 about Paul's claim of "chief sinner".
BUT this was PAST tense.
Note verse 13 where he speaks of his FORMER life as a BLASPHEMER, PERSECUTER, AND INJURIOIUS, all of which he did in UNBELIEF.

Of course he is no longer doing this so how can he still be chief sinner (if in fact you are claiming he speaks in present tense)?
---Haz27 on 11/5/12


" He said "I am", not "I was"."
StrongAxe on 11/5/12

Galatians 5:19_21 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these, Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
..., revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

Was Paul excluding himself from the hope of the kingdom of God then or is it that he did not practice those things?
He also said, Hebrews 12:13 "And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way, but let it rather be healed."
The hope is an onward path to holiness, Hebrews 12:14.
---Nana on 11/5/12


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Mark_Eaton:

Remember that Paul said "I am the chief of sinners". He said "I am", not "I was". Even after being saved, he still considered himself a sinner - just one who had been redeemed.
---StrongAxe on 11/5/12


Mark Eaton. Thanks for your answer so far. However it still does not explain "habitual".

Warwick spoke of 2 examples of sin. One was "bearing false witness". This is a COMMON allegation amongst Christians here on CN.

The 2nd sin example was adultery. This is also common amongst Christians (Mark 10:11,12) and many churches even endorse it.

By your doctrine these "Christians" are unsaved due to some AMBIGUOUS level of sinning.

Yet, the thief on the cross was saved in spite of being a criminal till the day he died.

Do you see the contradiction in your doctrine?
And have you ever committed the same "sin" more than once?
---Haz27 on 11/5/12


can you answer what determines "habitual" sin that you spoke of for 1John 3:6-9?
---Haz27 on 11/3/12

Sure.

In John 8:34 Jesus says "He who commits sin is a slave to sin" which at first glance does not make sense. Many believers stumble but are not slaves to their sin.

But the verb commits (in the verse) is a present participle tense meaning it has a never ending action.

Therefore, if I never stop committing the same sin, it has a much different meaning than if I commit that sin once. It also explains the meaning of Jesus statement. Continual sin has an enslaving attribute to it. It puts us in bondage. Or to use 21th century words, it is habitual or addictive.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/5/12


Rod4him, at least you answered the question I was answering others. We do need tools for research. Concerning the Spirit in a believers life, the Spirit speaks to our conscience. If your conscience tells you, you need to look up words so the Spirit can reveal something to you, He will guide you to the Truth. Whether a pastor or teacher who already knows that topic, as in many great Christian man the Spirit has gifted to edify the believer.
You don't believe my context of Corban was correct. It's ok. You don't have to believe it. Maybe the Spirit hasn't revealed that truth to you yet, maybe later. If you believe different then tell me why was Jesus upset with the Pharisees concerning corban? Then give me the passages so I can look them up.
---Mark_V. on 11/5/12


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//..could declare that all his money would go to the temple treasury when he died../

This is the part I question. I don't think his money ever went to the treasury. It appears you added "when he died," which changes the definition in Smith's.

I also question the reasoning "the Holy Spirit" guides one to look up words in a dictionary. What's that about?

//The Bible is a dictionary in itself.//

Agreed, however, added research is helpful. For a simple example, it is outside research that explains why Greek spoken at that time. Outside Bible sources explain the cultural setting at the time of Christ. How did the Romans get there?
---Rod4Him on 11/5/12


Haz, the Bible along has not given you understanding if you claim you do not sin?
Why don't you understand that "we were not made righteous," and that "we were declared righteous?"
It's written, Christ died for the ungodly, enemies of God. We are sinners saved by Grace.
"But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us. Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath. For it, while we were enemies , we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son. Then from how much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life."
God is righteous and so sinless, we are not.
---Mark_V. on 11/5/12


//The Bible is a dictionary in itself.---Haz27 on 11/4/12//
Amen
---michael_e on 11/4/12


If we refer to dictionaries to understand words then without the Spirit the reader will not discern scripture spiritually. Dictionaries don't give spiritual understanding.

Dictionaries give very general, and somewhat ambiguous, definitions of the word "sin", for example. But scripture gives specific definitions of sin. When these are applied then other scripture (such as 1John 1:8 and 1John 3:6-9 which SEEM to contradict each other) are understood.

The Bible is a dictionary in itself.
---Haz27 on 11/4/12


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Rod4him, from a dictionary concerning historical facts of the time.
" Smith's Bible Dictionary Corban,
an offering to God of any sort, bloody or bloodless, but particularly in fulfillment of a vow. The law laid down rules for vows, (1) affirmative, (2) negative. ( Leviticus 27:1, Numbers 30:1 ) ..Upon these rules the traditionists enlarged, and laid down that a man might interdict himself by vow, not only from using for himself, but from giving to another or receiving from him, some particular object, whether of food or any other kind. A person might thus exempt himself from any inconvenient obligation under plea of corban. This practice our Lord reprehended, ( Matthew 15:5 , Mark 7:11 ) as annulling the spirit of the law.
---Mark_V. on 11/4/12


Rod4him 2: without the ability to look words up, it is hard to find the answer to many stories in Scripture. It is possible to know, if our brain could store every bit of imformation from the Word of God. God has gifted many great man to help us with dictionaries, and concordances, others for special subjects concerning topics in the Word of God. The Bible has many words that have different meanings depending on the context for which they are use. And The Spirit of God motivates us to find out when God wants to convey a truth to us. Peace to you.
---Mark_V. on 11/4/12


//In the practice of corban a man could declare that all his money would go to the temple treasury when he died,...//

Curious...what is your source for this?
---Rod4Him on 11/4/12


Of coarse the Holy Spirit is our teacher OF JESUS.

Let me ask you this. If you took 100 newborns, kept them locked up for 30 years without the ability to read or write, then let them out and gave them a Bible, and said OK, The Holy Spirit is going to teach you to read, write, teach definition of words, and maybe even teach you how to play the piano too....would you believe it?

Aren't you able to read and comprehend to begin with BECAUSE you first got an education? So what is wrong with furthering one's understanding of WORDS we don't use every day or definitions to those words. Or being a good Berean. You are relying on those definitions of words you learned in the 1st to 12th thru college aren't you?
---kathr4453 on 11/4/12


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michael e, you said,

"Couldn't agree more. It takes the guidance of the Holy Spirit to know who Jesus was speaking to"

michael, the Bible already tells us who Jesus was speaking to, but it takes the guidness of the Holy Spirit within us to look up words so that we know the meaning God had for the passage. Picking up a dictionary to look up the word "corbon" will give you the meaning. You would also have to know the historical facts concerning corbon to even understand why Jesus was upset at the Pharisees. This takes your own works, your own passion. What the Spirit provides are the means to find the answers, He gifted great man to edify believers. Everything is provide for us.
---Mark_V. on 11/4/12


aka. i feel similar to Paul in what i write. i write what the Holy Spirit puts on my heart at the time. II Cor 6:8 "By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report, as deceivers, and yet true," I Cor 9:16 "For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of, for necessity is laid upon me, yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!" i hope this question has made people think.
---J_Marc on 11/4/12


"God requires one tool to understand His Word, His Spirit."
michael_e on 11/2/12

AMEN !
1Cor 2:12-16, 1John 2:27,

"I strongly sugggest that all believers do not use commentaries in their studies."
Mark_Eaton on 11/2/12

I agree.

Mark Eaton. As you trust in Greek/Hebrew study tools can you answer what determines "habitual" sin that you spoke of for 1John 3:6-9? I have asked this of many people and nobody has been able to answer.
And are you claiming the many Bible versions that contradict this "habitual" sin doctrine, are wrong?
---Haz27 on 11/3/12


//Woe be to me if i did'n try to show them!//

that is why i initially said that this question was leading. it was asked in a funny manner.

and, j. marc, you nor anyone else here can show anybody anything. it is the power of the Spirit through us. if we think too much of ourselves, we in fact, deceive.
---aka on 11/3/12


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michael_e, do you have any proof that a Strongs Concordande alters the original Hebrew/Greek word and meaning?

We see the word love in scripture, yet in the Greek and Hebrew there are 4 different kinds of love with 4 different words and definitions. Our language uses one word Love for all four. That's just one example of hundreds.

Study to show yourself approved michael_e, a WORKMAN that needs not be ashamed.
---kathr4453 on 11/3/12


//it is very important to be able to go back to the original word and find it's definition//

Original word?? You aren't suggesting a Strong's concordance are you?
---michael_e on 11/3/12


Without the Holy Spirit guiding you to this knowledge of the culture practice of corban, no one would be unable to understand this passage.
---Mark_V. on 11/3/12
Couldn't agree more. It takes the guidance of the Holy Spirit to know who Jesus was speaking to.
---michael_e on 11/3/12


Michael e, Mark E, is correct. Commentaries are people's opinon of certain events which are not always the same. But Bible tools are necessary to understand what words mean. In (Mark 7) Jesus upbraids the Pharisees soundly for their concept of corban. In the practice of corban a man could declare that all his money would go to the temple treasury when he died, and that, since his money belonged to God, he was therefore no longer responsible for maintaining his aging parents. Jesus argues that men are using this Pharisaic tradition to render God's command (the fifth commandment, of no account). Without the Holy Spirit guiding you to this knowledge of the culture practice of corban, no one would be unable to understand this passage.
---Mark_V. on 11/3/12


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Michael_e, Yes, because Bibles have been translated from it's original languages of Hebrew and Greek, and because our English words are so lame, it is very important to be able to go back to the original word and find it's definition. We even see many translations in english who have totally distorted the original, using words not even close to the original, or omitting words that are vital.

Maybe those reading it then in their own original unaltered language needed no such help. We do.
---kathr4453 on 11/3/12


//Greek and Hebrew study tools are the Bible. Dictionaries and concordances are the Bible. These tools should be used// if you want another mans understanding of the Bible.
Dictionaries and concordances are not necessarily God inspired.
---michael_e on 11/2/12


God requires one tool to understand His Word, His Spirit.
---michael_e on 11/2/12

Greek and Hebrew study tools are the Bible. Dictionaries and concordances are the Bible. These tools should be used. Without them a complete understanding of the Bible is not possible. This can be easily seen with all the misunderstaing of a verse like 1 John 5:18 "We know that no one who is born of God sins". Using the Greek tools you can see the word sins in the verse is a continual tense verb, meaning a never ending action.

Commentaries are NOT the Bible. They are the understanding of men. They can be fallible and incorrect in many ways.

I strongly sugggest that all believers do not use commentaries in their studies.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/2/12


God requires one tool to understand His Word, His Spirit.---michael_eon 11/2/12

all this requires is belief.
---aka on 11/2/12


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What tools are required for Bible study?
Most say Bible concordance, Grk/Eng dictionary, commentaries by Bible "authorities" clergy or those with a "special calling" other say no one can understand the Bible, so why bother. After all look at all the denominations and sects who all say they beleve the Bible.
God requires one tool to understand His Word, His Spirit.
---michael_e on 11/2/12


Pat, You know plenty!Amen to this- The heathen [nations] fear the potentially destructive elements of nature. Signs of heaven are eclipses, comets, lightning, ect. About the trees: These practices are vain, worthless. These made-man gods are speechless and impotent. Like a scarecrow in the field, uprght as the palm tree.... But the living God is GREAT. There is none like unto thee.... The wise men of the nations are BRUTISH, [STUPID], and FOOLISH. God's majesty is exalted. He is the King of nations. He is the true God. And God is not a happy camper.
---pat on 11/1/12
---J_Marc on 11/2/12


No! I love to study. I certainly never want to deceive anyone. I depend on God for revelation. I love knowing that I know. However, I do not understand everything.
---pat on 11/2/12


MarkV thanks again for the kind words! It seams to me that which restrains(letteth) in my life was the apostate church! i was taught once that it was the Holy Spirit! i did not see alot of these truths until i escaped from them & observed them from a distance! 2ndThessalonians 2:7-8 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
---J_Marc on 11/2/12


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J Marc, you are correct that many will not admit they are wrong in the way they have studied the Bible, but it is not until the Spirit convicts you of the Truth that you realize you were always wrong in the way you were taught before. While in that situation of course a person will not admit it, but once the truth sets them free from what they were taught, they will admit how wrong they were, just like you did.
I see that here with one person who claims his sinless. He will not admit he still sins because of how he interpreted passages in Scripture. Yet I know that within his own life he does sin, yet he doesn't want to call it sin. Everyone sins. But not everyone is a slave to it.
---Mark_V. on 11/2/12


Aka, you wrote, 'if someone thinks they are right, they would not say that they study wrongly." i agree! Woe be to me if i did'n try to show them!Ezekiel 33:9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it, if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity, but thou hast delivered thy soul. Sadly, most of them were scoffers.
Proverbs 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.
---J_Marc on 11/2/12


j. marc,

but, what i am saying is that no one (like the people in your former chuch )would answer yes to this question. if someone thinks they are right, they would not say that they study wrongly.

maybe traditional should be past and believers true believers. even jesus said that there are many who will do great things in his name (believers) but he will only know a few (true believers)
---aka on 11/1/12


aka on 10/31/12 You asked ,who would acknowledge that they are incorrectly studying the bible and that their method is leading them away from the truth? i was born into a church that believed they were the only true church! When i attened that church, i incorrectly studyed the Bible using their pet scriptures! i don't go there any more, now i study all of it!
---J_Marc on 11/1/12


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now, that is a strangely worded question.

who would say yes to that?

who would acknowledge that they are incorrectly studying the bible and that their method is leading them away from the truth?

the question sound more like a commentary to me.

but, i must say that my methods have led me away from the understanding that most "believers" have. and, i than the lord.
---aka on 10/31/12


Cluny, if having satan in your pocket to throw at those who oppose your view is being in the Spirit of God, then you got the wrong spirit and the wrong god, by your own testimony.
Having to do seven mysteries in order to receive grace is not written in Scripture. We are saved by the Grace of God through faith and not by anything we do, for it is not of works, so that no one can boast. Claiming seven mysteries gets you into heaven is to imply that the Sacrifice of Christ on the Cross was not sufficient to save you, that it needs your own works to get you into His kingdom.
---Mark_V. on 11/1/12


\\i believe churches, fellowships, & congreations have reached the apostacy!\\

That means that YOUR church has done so too, MarkJ.

**(The biblical interpretations the E. Orthodox Church you attend did not teach what the Holy Spirit teaches.**

Yes, they are. You are deluded by satan, MarkV.

**Salvation is by grace through faith, not by works**

And the Orthodox Church has NEVER said that salvation is by works, so you're wrong again, MarkV.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/31/12


---J_Marc on 10/31/12

Congrats thanks for the story. Your story sounds similar to James MacDonald who is a pastor of Harvest Bible Chapel in Chicago. If you are looking for a good preaching or podcast.
---Scott1 on 10/31/12


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David, i was born into a church that believed they were the only true church! i was baptised at 11, went to their private schools, took part in all aspects of their worship. i was master of hypocricy! When i was 25, i prayed all night, on my patio, confessing my sins, then i heard a voice that told me he was Christ & said things to me that were in the Bible, yet within my way of saying things! From that day on,i'm not the same vile person i was! My family & church rejected that as my born again experance, becuase they don't believe that God does any thing in our time! They spiteflly treated my wife & i until we had to escape from them & forgive them! Please read my other bloggs!
---J_Marc on 10/31/12


"It is the Spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." John 3:3,6,7

"But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12,13
---christan on 10/31/12


Cluny, MarkV says it well! Sadly, i believe churches, fellowships, & congreations have reached the apostacy! The falling away that was prophesied is occuring,the lawless one,the man of sin has been revealed!2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Many have "asked Jesus into their hearts" and keep the sin in their business must have another(anti)christ living there that calls himself God!
---J_Marc on 10/31/12


After i married my sweet wife i had a very powerful "born again" experance that our familys could not accept!
---J_Marc on 10/30/12


J Marc
I would very much like to hear your experience. What was the experience that caused you to know you are born again?
---David on 10/31/12


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Cluny, in order to support your denomination you say,

"Did it ever occur to you that traditional methods of Biblical interpretation used by the Orthodox Church ARE inspired by the Holy Spirit?".

The biblical interpretations the E. Orthodox Church you attend did not teach what the Holy Spirit teaches. Salvation is by grace through faith, not by works. The Holy Spirit would never teach people that they had to do seven sacraments in order to go to heaven. It did not teach the Roman Catholic Church either. Man taught the congregations that works were assential to go to heaven which is really a heresy.
---Mark_V. on 10/31/12


\\Cluny, I grew up in an "orthodox" church that should have called it self agnostic! \\

Was it a true member of the Orthodox Communion, or was it just common garden variety liberal Protestant?

The two are NOT the same.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/30/12


j marc, some people think salvation can't be felt but I can assure you I felt when I was born again. everyone don't have the same experience but I did. I can remember that moment clearly. when my husband was in the air force and only 19 yrs old, the chaplain ask him to sign a new testiment and he thought he was saved but when he really did get saved, he was a changed person. Praise the Lord.
---shira4368 on 10/30/12


Cluny, I grew up in an "orthodox" church that should have called it self agnostic! I'm now 54, when i was 25, not long after i married my sweet wife i had a very powerful "born again" experance that our familys could not accept! The church we attended didn't believe that God does anything in our time! I had to study the Bible to be able to believe what happend to me really was an experance from the real Christ! This blogging thing is a gift from Christ as well! The world and the enemy have really been attacting people who have heard that real voice!Heb 3:15 "Today if you hear His voice..."
---J_Marc on 10/30/12


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Did it ever occur to you that traditional methods of Biblical interpretation used by the Orthodox Church ARE inspired by the Holy Spirit?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/30/12


I will say that I have been focusing more on joy in the Lord more than information about the Lord. That has helped a lot.
---Scott1 on 10/30/12


proverbs said:
work hard..
you will earn profits..
have abundant food

genesis said that god
created a living human being (person) or self..
we are to be stewards...
we are to have relationships.
we are given free choice

you don't need the holy spirit to understand that. but many have perverted the bible preaching that we should expect miracles & if your miracle fails, YOU LACK faith, YOU SIN, IT IS YOUR FAULT not god bec he cannot lie.
---mike on 10/30/12


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