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Brought You Nearer To God

Give an example of a teaching, doctrine or tradition held by Apostolic Succession that brought you nearer to God that is not already in the canonised Holy Bible, nor contradictory with it.

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 ---John_II on 10/31/12
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Warwick: Your quote, "Christian do not go beyond what is written!"

True, but you're brandishing a dictionary, not a Bible, and you're not using that correctly. Not only do you miss off the rest of the definition of the word "protest" - often in opposition to something a person is powerless to prevent or avoid - but you don't understand that protesting yields to the second party as to whether it will be appreciated or not.

Jesus is not powerless (Matthew 26:53). You will swiftly retort with the adverb used: "often", okay, but one thing is certain already, that the protester is appealing for the second party to desist and be in accord from their own power, and not the protester's.
---John_II on 11/15/12


Here are the qualifications for these faithfull men:Titus 1:5-9 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God, not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre, But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate, Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
---J_Marc on 11/14/12


jerry6593, your declaration, "Incidentally, God wrote that the Sabbath was instituted at Creation - before there were any israelites."

Courtesy of exadventist:

But He bound it in covenant with only them:

Deuteronomy 5:2-3 "The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today."

Nehemiah 9:13-14 says: "You came down on Mount Sinai, you spoke to them from heaven. You gave them regulations and laws that are just and right, and decrees and commands that are good. You made known to them your holy sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses." (NIV).
---John_II on 11/14/12


francis, to reckon that all those sat in the SDA or SDB are on the narrow road, while all those not in the SDA and SDB are on the broad road just because of one or the other failing to understand what to do with the Sabbath is ludicrous:

Romans 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

This is what happens when a works-mentality gets into your church.
---John_II on 11/14/12


Christian do not go beyond what is written!

Protest is defined as "A statement or action expressing disapproval of or objection to something"

In this context, in Matthew 23:13-33 is Jesus "expressing disapproval of or objection to something" yes or no?
---Warwick on 11/14/12




"In this context read Matthew 23:13-33 and tell me, yes or no if Jesus was protesting against the actions and attitudes of the Pharisees." Warwick

Jesus was "protesting"? Was Jesus an activist? Have you actually read the words Christ spoke in Matthew 23:13-33?

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!" seven times it was repeated from verses 13-33! "Ye fools and blind... Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

Maybe you like to try the word REBUKED rather then "protest".
---christan on 11/14/12


When you open your bible, NT or OT is it 100% clear that every beleiver keeps the sabbath. When you are sitting in church on Sunday and everyone else sitting with you has rejected the sabbath of God in favour of Sunday it seems right, because so many people are doing it.

Matthew 7:13 for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Just because the croud / majority is doing it does not make it biblical

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
---francis on 11/14/12


jerry6593: Either Hebrews talks of the supremacy of Christ from the former "shadows", and the paramount importance of a complete faith in God, with some stern warning about observing a 7th Day Sabbath, only for grace to trump that sternness.

Or

Hebrews is about the supremacy of Christ, the importance of total faith culminating in a Sabbath Rest for the people of God which need only be entered the once.

The latter seems more triumphant to me.
---John_II on 11/14/12


christan * Christ declared, ", and him that cometh to me " & and NO MAN IS ABLE TO PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY FATHER'S HAND"

If you continue to come to Jesus he will not cast you out nor any exterior objects can pluck you out of his hand but where does it say once in his hand you can not walk away, it does not say that?
The podigal Son was in his hand and was allow to walk away!

christan * What a sad gospel you have that "Jesus lost Judas", meaning God was helpless to save the man from his sins.

God is not helpless at all but he allows us to leave him if we choose too.

JHn 17:12 " I kept them in your name, which you have given me. There was a time where Judas was not lost!
---Ruben on 11/14/12


Ruben, you understand that I am asking for these so-called Apostolic Succession teachings? In other words, something new to me, having only read the Bible, that would be deemed to have come right out of Jesus' mouth.
---John_II on 11/14/12




John 11, I gave you the word of God and you called me a muslim. (Daniel 11:32). "but the people who know their God shall be strong and take action" You say no, don't do anything if you do you are a muslim. We were speaking of Christians taking action against those who oppose the morals and values of God. You say,

"Mark V, how are you not a Muslim (or at least Romish)? Your quote: They feel they must do something, the dishonor done to God's name goads them into action.
Just change the word God to Allah and you're set."


If that's how you feel as a Christian then do nothing. But don't expect others to feel what you do, and if they don't they are muslim. They are people who care and take action.
---MarkV. on 11/14/12


John II: Your misapplication of Hebrews 4 is a good example of Peter's statement:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The entire Bible denies your interpretation. You have still not explained your objection to my statement:

"The Bible is clear that sin is defined as the transgression of the LAW - not of 9/10 of the law, and the wages of sin is death."

Why not?

Incidentally, God wrote that the Sabbath was instituted at Creation - before there were any israelites.


---jerry6593 on 11/14/12


John11 I could not let your foolishness go unanswered. Protest is defined as "A statement or action expressing disapproval of or objection to something" In this context read Matthew 23:13-33 and tell me, yes or no if Jesus was protesting against the actions and attitudes of the Pharisees. Remember: yes or no.
---Warwick on 11/13/12


Ruben, Christ declared, "ALL THAT THE FATHER GIVETH ME SHALL COME TO ME, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." & "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and NO MAN IS ABLE TO PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY FATHER'S HAND"

You declare, "So of those the Father gave him, Jesus lost Judas." How's that even possible? That's not what John 6:37 and 8:29 testifies. In fact based on those two verses alone, you've been accused of bearing false witness to the Word of God with regards to God's promise to save.

What a sad gospel you have that "Jesus lost Judas", meaning God was helpless to save the man from his sins.
---christan on 11/13/12


francis, okay, you have called time. I will look into what you have last stated,
---John_II on 11/13/12
I would also encourage you to look at what D L MOODY, Dr. E. T. Hiscox author of the Baptist Manual, CLOVIS G. CHAPPELL "Ten Rules for Living," page 61, JOHN CALVIN, "Commentary on a Harmony of the Gospels,DR. D. H. LUCAS, Christian Oracle, Jan. 23, 1890. DR. N. SUMMERBELL, "History of the Christian Church," Third Edition, page 4I5. Augsburg Confession of Faith, Art. 28, par. 9. John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday, pp.15, Harold Lindsell (editor), Christianity Today, Nov. 5, 1976
says about the sabbath
---francis on 11/13/12


francis, okay, you have called time. I will look into what you have last stated, though anything that comes out of the RCC is not to be trusted, including their own "admissions". When some organisation has been exposed, then the trick is to put out some more "exposes" so that they can deny them and make it appear as though people are simply bashing their organisation.
---John_II on 11/13/12


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Ruben, I have checked below for your Apostolic Succession submissions, but there aren't any. Would you please re-submit them?
---John_II on 11/13/12

Ok:

Acts 1: 25 " Lord, you know everyones heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry"

2 Tim 2:2 " And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others."

2 Cor 5:20 "We are therefore Christs ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us."
---Ruben on 11/13/12


"Apostolic Succession"?? Matthew 15:8-9 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.Ezekiel 8:16b men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east, and they worshipped the sun toward the east.Jeremiah 1:16 And I will utter my judgments against them touching all their wickedness, who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, and worshipped the works of their own hands.1st Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
---J_Marc on 11/13/12


"And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 6:28,29

Isn't Jesus referring to eternal security here? How is it you cannot see nor perceive it?
---christan on 11/12/12

Yes, if you stay in his hand, where does it say you can not walk away?

The Prodigal Son is a great example of someone in God's hand but was allow to leave (LK 15:11-32)

In John 17:12, Jesus says that he had lost none of those the Father had given to him except for Judas. So of those the Father gave him, Jesus lost Judas.
---Ruben on 11/13/12


John_II on 11/13/12
THE CATHOLIC EXTENSION MAGAZINE180 Wabash Avenue, Chicago, Illinois
Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday,

(1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.

(2), Yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws,

3) We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their teachings.
Peter R. Tramer. Editor

END OF DISCUSION!!
---francis on 11/13/12


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francis, the Sabbath can no more disappear than God can. Jesus came and took the Sabbath to its supreme position (like other commandments): that those who have complete faith in God in this Christian-hating world (where we don't fight with physical weapons like the Israelites did) will find that Sabbath Rest perpetually, which we need only enter once - even today. Otherwise, how could man have come up with something more triumphant than God had planned? I don't know if the New World Sabbath will go back to a day, or whether we will be called Christians there. But I do know that Jesus is over God's house:
Matthew 12:6 I tell you that one greater than the temple is here.
So our peace is found outside as well as inside.
---John_II on 11/13/12


Ruben, I have checked below for your Apostolic Succession submissions, but there aren't any. Would you please re-submit them?
---John_II on 11/13/12


Ruben, your first set of questions were answered, albeit, not by myself. To those answers I would also add how Jesus said,

"It is written"
"It is written"
"It is written"
---John_II on 11/12/12

John, I have but you are ignoring them:

1) Not everything Jesus said or did was written down (Jhn 21:25) " Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down,"

2) Paul says "remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: It is more blessed to give than to receive. " (Acts 20:35) But yet there is no writing Jesus said this at all!

3)Where does Jesus tell the Apostles to write everything down?
---Ruben on 11/13/12


francis, you also have no case to support a Christian Sabbath Day observance from Isaiah 56:2-7, because of the verses that bookend them:
---John_II on 11/13/12
There is no such thng as christian sabbath it is:Exodus 20:10 the sabbath of the LORD thy God

There is nothing in Isaiah saying we Christians must observe 7th Day Sabbath.
---John_II on 11/13/12

All who are in the new earth, christian, jew and other will observe every sabbath and every new moon ( see Revelation 22:2)

Do realize that the sabbath was, is, and always will be about God as creator? What can change that?
---francis on 11/13/12


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---ELENA on 11/6/12//
Agree. Praise God!

A HUGE Amen--sister,

God bless.
---char on 11/12/12

And amen
---Chria9396 on 11/13/12


jerry6953, It's obvious that their is no Apostolic Succession, otherwise the blog would be inundated with it.

Now, if I read Hebrews 4 as you SDAs want me to, then I am treating this commandment as anything but superficial. This is the point!

Your own declaration, "Your explanation of the treatment of the fourth Commandment as somehow different in character than the other nine was not convincing at all (if even rational). "

Haven't you SDAs done just that, and made it into a big deal...a big work?

God did say - to the Israelites - "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy."

God tells us Christians not to fall short of perpetual Rest/Sabbath by unbelief.
---John_II on 11/13/12


//I don't know about all that! I do realize that trials and tribulations, will bring you closer to God. And you never, ever, know His power, the power of His resurrection, until you are brought so low that Only God can lift you out from under. The same power that raised Jesus from the dead is the same power that saves lost souls today.
---pat on 11/12/12///

//[The same power that raised Jesus from the dead is the same power that saves lost souls today.]//

Love this pat...
Thanks for sharing.

God Bless,
Shalom

---char on 11/13/12


francis, you also have no case to support a Christian Sabbath Day observance from Isaiah 56:2-7, because of the verses that bookend them:

Isaiah 56:1: Thus says the LORD, Keep justice, and do righteousness: for my salvation is soon to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

But until that time came - the Messiah - Israel had to observe verses 2 to 7* while God gathered still more of their brethren:

Isaiah 56:8 The Lord GOD who gathers the outcasts of Israel says, Yet will I gather others to him, besides those that are gathered unto him.

*Or are you also making burnt offerings and sacrifices at the SDA church?
---John_II on 11/13/12


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francis, were you really sorry? I have taken your shout-down, for I got the wrong time, but the point remains: the Feast of Tabernacles will be observed again when Christ comes, and Sabbaths will be observed again in New Earth.

There is nothing in Isaiah saying we Christians must observe 7th Day Sabbath.

The Sabbath came in paradise, and will return in paradise, we are not in paradise now which means it can only be found in true, Bible-believing Christianity, constantly, as Hebrews chapters 1-6 attests to, all by faith (no faith, no Rest) even away from ordinations, cf Hebrews 11 "Abraham believed God and it was credited as righteousness" for "without faith it is impossible to please Him".
---John_II on 11/13/12


John II: While I hesitate to depart further from your blog question on Apostolic succession (a doctrine which I agree is totally specious), I must nonetheless take issue with your superficial treatment of God's Commandments. Your explanation of the treatment of the fourth Commandment as somehow different in character than the other nine was not convincing at all (if even rational). The Bible is clear that sin is defined as the transgression of the LAW - not of 9/10 of the law, and the wages of sin is death. It is also clear that God wrote with His own finger "Remember THE Sabbath Day". How can that be made unimportant?

Apostolic Succession and the counterfeit Sabbath were both invented by the RCC.


---jerry6593 on 11/13/12


francis, there is no Non Covetous Church, nor a Church of Parent Honourers, nor a Church of Non-Adulterers, so why have a Seventh Day observers one? Do you want to be seen as making yourselves holier than the rest of us? Because this is works-orientated. You see, I remember when I finally let go of the world, and so putting my faith in God and finding the Christian Sabbath/Rest. Yet recently I met a fretful lady who told me she couldn't let go of the world, so what ruddy good would observing a Sabbath Day do for her when God is wanting her faith!?
Hebrews 4:2 For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did, but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith.
---John_II on 11/13/12


"It is speaking about we can not come to Jesus but by God's grace, it says nothing about remaining with Jesus or eternally secure with him." Ruben

If that's the case according to you, then Jesus must have lied when He declared,

"And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 6:28,29

Isn't Jesus referring to eternal security here? How is it you cannot see nor perceive it?
---christan on 11/12/12


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jerry6953, bear with me. Your quote, Why should you worry about falling short by not keeping ANY Commandment. Don't worry about murder, theft, adultery, or idol worship. You've got it made, right? A free ticket to heaven no matter how vile a sinner you are.

Because no other commandment goes into such depth about fearing the shortfall of it for me to say: oh whatever, we have grace anyway.

Now if this is about disobedience with regards to faith in God - and that there is no rest for the wicked - then it all makes perfect sense about a perpetual Sabbath of which we Christians enter but once.

Hebrews 6:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
---John_II on 11/12/12


//What brings those like myself ( let me be honest the lord knows, we are like lost sheep sometimes gone astray) Is.53:6. Let me be honest, we find our selves weak but, not defeated and we finally, put away our foolishness and say "Lord,hear I am please forgive me for trying to make it on my own, my own is NO Good.
I realize I must give you my whole self and quit trying to do it on my own..
//We are now Closer to Him, because we realize it just NOT going to work .with out LET Him !
We are broken and just give it all over to Him
..
---ELENA on 11/6/12//

A HUGE Amen--sister,

God bless.
---char on 11/12/12


Ruben, your first set of questions were answered, albeit, not by myself. To those answers I would also add how Jesus said,

"It is written"
"It is written"
"It is written"

So, as a fair exchange, please provide some Apostolic Successive doctrines before the SDAs fill up the blog.
---John_II on 11/12/12


---John_II on 11/12/12
Sorry john there is no reference in Zechariah 14:16 which connects the feast of anything to the new earth. There are many passages in thebible about feasts NONE of them connect any feast to new earth

In Isaiah 66:22,23 there is a direct connection between new earth and sabbath
---francis on 11/12/12


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---John_II on 11/12/
Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be NO RAIN. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain, there shall be the PLAGUE, wherewith the LORD will smite THE HEATHEN that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles

PLAGUES, DROUGHT, AND THE HEATHEN IN THE NEW EARTH?
SURELY YOUMISSUNDERSTOD THE TEXT
---francis on 11/12/12


Francis, Isaiah 66:22,23 has not proven your case, for there is also going to be a Feast of Tabernacles in New Earth:
Zechariah 14:16 ... will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

Which is also a Jewish observance:
John 7:2 But when the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles was near,

... and, like the Sabbath Day proper, not a Christian one:
Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

Are you also observing this feast?
---John_II on 11/12/12


These scriptures may help in your discussion! Hebrews 3:7-8 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, Today if ye will hear his voice,Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:Ezekiel 20:16-17 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.Nevertheless mine eye spared them from destroying them, neither did I make an end of them in the wilderness.Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest to the people of God.
---J_Marc on 11/12/12


I don't know about all that! I do realize that trials and tribulations, will bring you closer to God. And you never, ever, know His power, the power of His resurrection, until you are brought so low that Only God can lift you out from under. The same power that raised Jesus from the dead is the same power that saves lost souls today.
---pat on 11/12/12


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Just give me one A.S teaching/doctrine/tradition to look at, because, if Apostolic Succession is authoritative and the Holy Bible isn't, then your Pope is the king of the world. However, if the Holy Bible is authoritative and Apostolic Succession is not,
---John_II on 11/10/12

John,

Fair enough:= Trinity & Bible

1. Where does the Bible explain the Trinity and tells us the Holy Spirit is one of the three persons of the Trinity?

2. Where does the Bible provide us a list of the canonical books of the OT & the NT?

3.IF the bible is the only foundation of our Chrisian truth, why does the bible itself say that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth ( 1 tim 3:15)?
---Ruben on 11/12/12


Francis, yes, it was sign between God and the Israelites:
---John_II on 11/11/12
Isaiah 56:2 Blessed is the man ..that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it,..

Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people:

Isaiah 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, EVERY ONE that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant,

Isaiah 56:7 their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar, for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
---francis on 11/11/12


John II: "then why should I worry about falling short of not keeping a Sabbath Day"

First of all, God has commanded the keeping of THE Sabbath Day - not A Sabbath Day. Let's take your thesis to its logical conclusion. Why should you worry about falling short by not keeping ANY Commandment. Don't worry about murder, theft, adultery, or idol worship. You've got it made, right? A free ticket to heaven no matter how vile a sinner you are. Good grief!

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


---jerry6593 on 11/12/12


Francis, yes, it was sign between God and the Israelites:

Hebrews 3:5: Moses was faithful as a servant in all Gods house, testifying to what would be said in the future.
---John_II on 11/11/12

Isaiah also also testigied about what would be done in the future:


Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Isaiah's testimony makes it clear that in the new heaven and new earth we will CONTINUE to keep the sabbath
---francis on 11/11/12


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John_II: John, I do not "worry" about falling short of not keeping a Sabbath day because keeping a Sabbath day does not save me. Christ"s sacrifice does. I know that as long as I am in this body I will fall short and that is why I need Christ our High Priest intervening for me. 1John 3:4 says "sin is the transgression of the law" and Rom.6:1-2 asks "...shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid!" My goal as a Christian is not to sin because I love Christ and am thankful for His sacrifice. However, if I were to blatenly live a life of sin that would be like a slap in Christ's face and if not repented of in a loss of eternal life. It comes down to heart and attitude.
---Tanya on 11/11/12


Noel, if everyone has fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23), and all men have been given over to disobedience (Romans 11:32), then why should I worry about falling short of not keeping a Sabbath Day (every 7th day)?

Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.

Am I really going to die like those faithless Israelites who fell in the desert because of disobedience in this?

Hebrews 4:11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

So, by trying to keep a 7th Day Sabbath is stepping backwards into works.
---John_II on 11/11/12


No doctrine has been brought to us by Apostolic succession. Peter is not the foundation of the Church - Christ is! True doctrines come to us ONLY through the Holy Scriptures. When the doctrines of men (such as veneration of the day devoted to the sun god) are substituted for the Word of God, the worship is in vain.

Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


---jerry6593 on 11/11/12


Francis, yes, it was sign between God and the Israelites:

Hebrews 3:5: Moses was faithful as a servant in all Gods house, testifying to what would be said in the future.

...because, unlike Moses, they were faithless, but we, like Christ, are faithful:

Hebrews 3:6: But Christ is faithful as a son over Gods house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.

We are not Israelites, and we are not "in the wilderness" trying God, for we entered that Rest through belief, lest you strive to go back to works: Hebrews 6 not laying again...dead works...and faith towards God.

Faith is founded, why start again?
---John_II on 11/11/12


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John_II: It is a common misunderstanding among those who do not keep the 7th day Sabbath to think that those that do are working for their salvation. That is not true. I keep the Sabbath because I see from scripture that (as you noted) Christ is the Lord of that day and it was first sanctioned at creation. He never changed it. I understand Heb. 4 to say ~therefore there remaineth a sabbath keeping for the people of God~. By keeping the other 9 commandmants (I`m assuming you do) are you working for your salvation? Then why say I am because I keep the Sabbath? Blessings. P.S. I am not SDA.
---noel on 11/10/12


---John_II on 11/10/12
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

How did God enter rest:

Hebrews 4:4 And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Hebrews 4:6 they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
REFERENCE:
Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them.
Ezekiel 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness:

Hebrews 4 calls us not to be as israel in the wilderness but rather to keep the sabbath AS GOD DID and as SDA do
---francis on 11/10/12


Noel, if you know what Protestants say about the Sabbath, why haven't you checked it against Scripture?

Hebrews 4

This is the chapter that puts an end to the Seventh Day Adventist Church where it should never have had a beginning. It's also worth noting that the SDA is currently being called back to Rome.

The Christian "Sabbath" is from the moment he/she understood grace - and the rest from works-righteousness. Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, right? - Mark 2:27. And being that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, we are already in that Rest.

That said, if you don't combine it with faith, you will miss it like they [Israelites] did. Only those who have belief shall enter that Rest.
---John_II on 11/10/12


John11: With all due respect,
if protestants were truly "sola scriptura", they would be keeping the seventh day sabbath (the only day sanctioned in scripture) and not the day the Catholic church sanctioned. And yes I am well aware of how the protestants justify Sunday keeping. Every protestant needs to read "Rome's Challenge to the Protestants". Blessings.
---Noel on 11/10/12


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---Ruben on 11/9/12

Your five questions are valid
Answer:
Luke 16:29 They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them.

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Acts 26:22 I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:


Unlke the apostles who were commision directly by Jesus, apostolic succession, especially in the RCC has ran away ( I cannot say walk because they are so far already( from Moses and the prophets, which prove that they are not apostolic at all but rather apostasy
---francis on 11/10/12


Ruben: When I first saw your numbered list I thought, "Whoa, a list of Apostolic Successive teachings to compare with the Bible!" But no, just a feeble attempt at diversion: the blog question has been set. Besides, we have already touched upon the efficacy of the Bible in the sola scriptura world, but in true Jesus style I will answer your questions when you have given a valid answer to mine (Mark 11:27-33).

Just give me one A.S teaching/doctrine/tradition to look at, because, if Apostolic Succession is authoritative and the Holy Bible isn't, then your Pope is the king of the world. However, if the Holy Bible is authoritative and Apostolic Succession is not, then your Pope is the Antichrist.
---John_II on 11/10/12


John 11, the only Apostolic Succession there is only taught by the Roman Catholic Church, and the Eastern Orthodox churches, since they split from the RCC.
Apostolic Succession is not Scriptural. Peter was never a bishop of Rome. He was an Apostle, and the only record of him been in Rome is found in one passage. The first Pope of Rome was Costantine, and Peter was dead already. Costantine was a murderer and a heathen. After his union with the Church, more and more heathens and pagan's entered the Church bringing in their own traditions. First thing they did was, they replaced Christ as the Head of the Church. This way they could control everyone, telling everyone they were the true church, and that God only spoke to them.
---Mark_V. on 11/10/12


Bro.JohnII , wow! Think you right.those churches in latin american countries yes, (lots of different strange to me) even from here lately, be on the web..strange things. I quit reading on there they could easy contact me so,I quit.They wanted me to put in my info/ ELENA scram
.thanks. keep me up on this.intersting.
---ELENA on 11/9/12


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So, are its teachings valid? Well, let's see what is proposed. This should help us decide whether Apostolic Succession is as authoritative as the Bible, John

Show me:

1) Where the Bible says it is the only authoritative?

2) Where did Jesus say that the Christian faith will be based exclusively on a book?

3) Where did the Apostles tell future generations that our faith will be solely on a book?

4) Where did Jesus tell the Apostles to write everything down an make it into an authoritative book?

5) How do we know who wrote the books of Matthew, Mark, John, Acts, Hebrew etc..etc.?
---Ruben on 11/9/12


Elena: Great work! On the world map we can see where nations with more faith in sola scriptura and sola fide have been blessed by God abundantly more than those which are predominantly Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic, this with these 4 constituents: peace, prosperity, freedom and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ only (Hebrews 3:1). The Spanish-speaking world has been held back by Rome, with Apostolic Succession only one of the many reasons. Now that Protestantism is regressing due to Catholic infiltration (research Alberto Rivera), those EO and RCC nations are really suffering. Spain is in crisis. Is this due to it having completely wiped out "corruptive" sola scriptura? I would say so.
---John_II on 11/9/12


Hello,bro.JohnII.once again did alot of reading! Re: apostolic successtion
And wow! All new to me.Then yes after my lengthly study would have to agree with you. There was alot that both the catholic. And the protestant churches have not agree to thid apostolic succ./ how the holliness
Evangelical & Christian (pentecostal)
..The Spanish speaking church( in this article do not believe in "sola scriptura"they are having a big debate in the forum /concerning that doctrine. It real long but I will finnish & report.thanks! Wow! IN short they say "sola scriptura" is an abomination.All new to me.
---ELENA on 11/8/12


Greetings bro.JohnII just Saw your post here this minute.Hey those words you put in latin now we on track, because of couse we understand those words Spanish
Word 'anatema ' that is a person like that exspelled,excommunicated from the religious comminity and last it is conmdemmed forever..they do preach this in the Spanish churches, many denomination.I a going to look up the other inform words you left ..I will look up those to see what they mean Spanish ..thanks! I am.very.much.want to.understand. book Timothy speaks about know .. we know any christian Knowledge is Power! Be back.amen
---ELENA on 11/8/12


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Elena: Seems you have been through some tough times. Rejoice, you have been made stronger for the battles ahead. We Protestants believe in sola scriptura* and sola fide*, and, therefore, we reject "Apostolic Succession", you would do well to research these. Cluny, who claims Eastern Orthodoxy but comes across as Roman Catholic, accepts Apostolic Succession. He has copped out by saying, "Oh, what's the point of answering the question when you guys reject Apostolic Succession anyway!" Yet this is his chance to uphold Apostolic Succession - should it exist.

* If you accept these doctrines then you will be held as anathema by the Roman Catholic Church despite Proverbs 30:5, 6 and Ephesians 2:8
---John_II on 11/8/12


To JohnII, thankyou brother.what I meant was people like myself, we do not know the bible history and all the apologetics, what ever those words you put.We just know ( for myself) be honest I read even alot now and then some old history stuff in Spanish you know first never was catholic not.all. spanish speaking are catholic.My point was I came to.know about Christ through my grandmother as achild & through life,especially after most my family go wars, include some turn muslim other false religions. And our family split up.Anger and confused/Christ love open to me a new life anf learn to forgive.plus having cancer & see his power in my life
---ELENA on 11/7/12


To JohnII this ELENA, never set foot in a church in my life.until.16.years.old in this country and.that did nor lastfor long.because my mother the lady who raised me as her own sure did not believe.in.God. upon.adult.then yes I went go.to Pentecostal.church some are really strict. No cross. No pictures of Christ. No parties. Just bible study and you. Do not take communion but 1 a year and if they view your life surcumspect or not holy...you will be refused take the holy communion.love of JESUS
---ELENA on 11/7/12


Elena: Hello, I see that you have a heart for God, but what are you saying that Cluny is right about exactly? That Apostolic Succession is rejected rightly or wrongly?
---John_II on 11/6/12


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Beloved,Cluny is right. Then 2. What brings those like myself ( let me be honest the lord knows, we are like lost sheep sometimes gone astray) Is.53:6. Let me be honest, we find our selves weak but, not defeated and we finally, put away our foolishness and say "Lord,hear I am please forgive me for trying to make it on my own, my own is NO Good.
I realize I must give you my whole self and quit trying to do it on my own..
We are now Closer to Him, because we realize it just NOT going to work .with out LET Him !
We are broken and just give it all over to Him
..
---ELENA on 11/6/12


The apostle Paul, being the last apostle appointed by God 1C 15:7-9, has given us all there is of God's revelation to mankind [Col 1:25] Apostolic authority ceased within his commission, and all that he taught and spoke is the truth for today.

That God has a goal, which no one speaks of, is revealed by Paul: 1C 15:28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.

Having belief that this shall come to pass has released me into liberty limitless. It is the pinnacle of faith.
---Phil on 11/5/12


Sunday Mass, Christmas,and Easter

When i was an preteen, in catechism for first communion I was taught about Christmas as the celebration of the birth of Jesus, and Easter as the celebration of the Resurrection of Jesus after he died on the cross for our sins. As it was taught to me, it was because of his Resurrection on Sunday morning that Christians went to mass on Sundays. As a child I always looked forward to these days thinking how God came to save us

As an adult I now know that neither of these feast have anything to do with Jesus, and existed long before the birth of Jesus. And Going to mass on Sunday came much later after all the apostles died.

But as a child they did seem to bring me closer to Jesus.
---francis on 11/5/12


TheSeg: You find all this amusing? How old are you? Those quotes marks around Holy Fathers means that I am using someone else's words. My understanding is that Apostolic Succession, so it is claimed, comes down through bishops, aka Holy Fathers. Am I misinformed? When you mention the apostles, do you mean the 12 that were around Christ?
---John_II on 11/5/12


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Also, did you really laugh?
Yes, John!

I even laugh at this, If "Holy Fathers"
You must mean the apostles.

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
You think the apostles are the holy fathers?

I know only one, who is to be called Father!
Joh_1:18, The first begotten Son, he hath declared him.
But I as well have broken this by calling my dad, father.

But the biggest laugh, I ever got was at myself.
Because for one fleeting moment, I actually thought I could explain him.
And the funniest thing of all is, its not because I cant.
Its because no one will believe it!
How cool is that!
Peace
---TheSeg on 11/4/12


John 11, the only thing Apostolic Succession brought was pride or what one can call sin. It was introduced in history by the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, to show the world they were the only true Church, and by using Apostolic Succession they were able to replace Christ as the Head of the Church by asigning Peter who they claim is the rock in (Matthew 16:18) as the first head or bishop of the Church. All it brought to the RCC was separation from Christ. Peter himself never believed that he was the rock upon which Jesus would build His Church. In fact, his teachings, along with those of the other apostles, contradict the notion that Peter is the rock upon which the Church is build.
---Mark_V. on 11/4/12


TheSeg: If "Holy Fathers" can behold discordant opinions yet both be considered "right" (which is simply satanic spin for contradiction), why do you find is laughable for someone to suggest that some Apostolic Successive teachings might be contradictory with the Bible?

Also, did you really laugh?
---John_II on 11/3/12


Scott1, you say, "One cool phrase that a teacher taught me was Anger, unforgiveness is 'like you drinking poison so that the person who hurt you will get sick or die.'"

Seems this is just someone's commentary (somewhat fangled) on Matthew 18:23-35
---John_II on 11/1/12


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Pat, Apostolic Succession is (supposedly) the teachings of Christ passed down from the 12 Disciples to the present. Its proponents claimed that these successions are traceable, though this falls down rather quickly. So, are its teachings valid? Well, let's see what is proposed. This should help us decide whether Apostolic Succession is as authoritative as the Bible, or simply allowing for those who strive for glory, power, prestige, honour, etc. to get into the Church?
---John_II on 11/1/12


Cluny, I see you are still presiding over the standard of questions on here. Anyway, here is your chance to give us something: give us a teaching distinct from the Bible (from Apostolic Succession) that changes lives towards having the mind of Christ? It shouldn't be in the Bible or one which contradicts it.
---John_II on 10/31/12


What is the Apostolic Succession, and what is this canonised Holy Bible? I don't like appearing ignorant.... In anycase, there is a lot about God that was never recorded in His word. So much I have learned about this living God, that so few people will ever know. He is more passionate, than you could even ever imagine. What a friend and what a husband. If you belong to Him, you are worth something. Maybe not to this world. Hallelujah. and Amen. Ah Jesus.+
---pat on 10/31/12


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