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Old New Covenant Differences

What are the differences between the OLD and the NEW COVENANTS, along with the differences between being under the LAW and being under GRACE?

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Lawless Lee: "the final judgement is on how well one observes the 10 commandments"

Here is what scripture (and SDA #19) says:

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Being judged by the Law is not the same thing as "earning" salvation. We are saved by the grace of Christ alone.

Obedience to the Law cannot "earn" your way to heaven, but disobedience can keep you out. You seem to believe that disobedience to God and denegrating your fellow Christians will earn your salvation. But there is a judgement coming, and I doubt your approach will be approved.


---jerry6593 on 2/25/13


Jerry, if you do not want to be under the law why do you preach Saturday Sabbath? Second you can call me anything you want. Those that have no answers always use their mouths and many times even the enemy to support them. It is an everyday thing for most of you.
When you claim that Saturday is the only day anyone can have the Sabbath, you make it a law. And we are not under the law. No matter how many passages you give from the Old Testament. We have been set free from the condemnation of the law. All the laws you bring up are only a smoke screen to bring the law of Saturday Sabbath.
---Mark_V. on 2/25/13


//Lawless MarkV: "Works of the law for salvation".

I think you get that idea because Mark believes he is under the law of Christ alone.

While your type believes in observing the olde Jewish Sabbath, you do not hesitate to speak ill of others that have a better understanding of God's work.
---e.lee7537 on 2/24/13


Jerry //You know full well that I have NEVER claimed that works of the law earn salvation.

However, we assume that you being an Adventist subscribe to their 28 SDA Articles.

Articles #19 clearly tells us that the final judgement is on how well one observes the 10 commandments.

So if that is true, then we can conclude that you truly believe observance of the 10 commandments is the basis for salvation.

You really try to talk out of both sides of your mouth!
---e.lee7537 on 2/24/13


Lawless MarkV: "Works of the law for salvation."

You know full well that I have NEVER claimed that works of the law earn salvation. Yet you persist in your hate-filled rhetoric and your presumption of my motives simply because you have no answer for my scripture-based assertion that no one is under the New Covenant who does not have God's Law written in their heart. Why not grow up a bit and stick to a logical discussion of scriptural concepts, and leave off the personal attacks?


---jerry6593 on 2/24/13




Jerry, you say to elee,

"According to the Bible, anyone who does not have THE LAW written in his heart is NOT under the New Covenant!"

If you know this, why do you preach the written letter of the Law? I know why, because you want to make Saturday Sabbath a law. You want to be under the law. That is what you and francis have preached since I came on line. In the beginning I knew very little about SDA's but in time I have learn what you guys stand for, works of righteous. Works of the law for salvation.
Thinking that if you keep the Saturday Sabbath it will excuse all your other sins.
---Mark_V. on 2/23/13


Lawless Lee:

According to the Bible, anyone who does not have THE LAW written in his heart is NOT under the New Covenant!

This means YOU!




---jerry6593 on 2/22/13


Your arguements against the sabbath is NOTHING NEW:

Ezekiel 22:26 Her priests have violated my law,..and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths,..divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.

Pastors know that they should keep the 7th day as sabbath.
Some Pastors having taught not to keep the 7th day must LIE to thier congregation

Which of these lies is your pastor telling you.

1: The first day sunday is the christian sabbath
2:Jesus the Christ is their sabbath
3: Every day is the sabbath

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
---francis on 2/21/13


You forgot to add 'refusing to become circumcised, refusing to convert to Judaism, etc. etc. etc.
---e.lee7537 on 2/19/13
you only say that because you are ignorant on the subjectof circumcision
---francis on 2/20/13


Ezekiel 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: ..and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths,..divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.


Does not matter what denomination they go to, people know that they should keep the sabbath day holy.
Some Pastors having taught not to keep the 7th day must LIE to thier congregation

Here are some examples of their lies: ( thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.)

1: The first day sunday is the christian sabbath
2:Jesus the Christ is their sabbath
3: Every day is the sabbath

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
---francis on 2/20/13




francis //Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we have other gods, make graven images and bow down to them, take the name of the LORD God in vain, not keep the sabbath day holy, dishonour our father and our mother,kill, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, and covet, that grace may abound?

You forgot to add 'refusing to become circumcised, refusing to convert to Judaism, etc. etc. etc.

Sorry Francis but your mindset refuses to acknowledge the FACT that the church is under the New Covenant and there is no requirement for Christians to observe laws that are specially Jewish in nature.

Both Scripture and church history makes that very clear.

You have yet to make any convincing arguments for your assertion.
---e.lee7537 on 2/19/13


the 10 commandments are just one little thing in the bible and grace abounds after Christ died and rose again.

---shira4368 on 2/18/13

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we have other gods, make graven images and bow down to them, take the name of the LORD God in vain, not keep the sabbath day holy, dishonour our father and our mother,kill, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, and covet, that grace may abound?
---francis on 2/19/13


Sis. Shira, you are so right when you say,

", not of works lest any man should boast. men do boast when they say they are sinless and live by the 10 commandments"

That is what I see also. A lot of I do Saturday Sabbath and you guys don't so I am following God and you guys are not. I am right and you guys are lost. I save myself by doing all the law, so you guys refuse to do the law, so you guys are not saved. Completely ignoring that salvation is by grace through faith, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
---Mark_V. on 2/19/13


elee, I absolutely agree with you. the 10 commandments are just one little thing in the bible and grace abounds after Christ died and rose again. my little bit of knowledge in God's Word leaves room to learn more. I still will say the 10 commandments didn't save me. I was saved by grace thru faith, not of works lest any man should boast. men do boast when they say they are sinless and live by the 10 commandments.
---shira4368 on 2/18/13


---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13
Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature (SUNday)more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.


Revelation 14:7 Fear God, and give glory to him, and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Every NT verse that talks about God as creator commands us to keep the sabbath. Because the sabbath is about ONE THING worshiping God as CREATOR
---francis on 2/18/13


STOP YOUR FOLLISHNESS RIGHT THERE!!!

This verse: Leviticus 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
Is not in the NT, are you saying that because it is not in the NT that if performed it is not a sin?

LOL - hit you square between the eyes on that one, didnt I?

As to your comment on Leviticus 18:23, sexual deviancy is strongly condemned in the New Testament. However, you cannot find anything in the NT that supports Sabbath keeping.

Suggest you go get yourself circumcised and join a Messianic Jewish congregation. In that way you can more closely view yourself as Jewish.
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13


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shira4368/ we are not saved by the commandments but we try to keep them after we are saved

First of all the 10 Commandments are just scratch the surface of being the standard for the Israelites. Jesus in Matthew 5 related that. The Beatitudes give a much better glimpse of how to live. Matt 5:21-48 gives standards the 10 don't. Then when the scriptures begin to really relate to the New Covenant we get an altogether new prospectus of how Christians are to relate to God.

The 10 along with all the old law are history. The Christian way is far superior to the old law. We have, instead of the 10, the Holy Spirit as our guide. How can we go wrong with such a great gift?
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13


f you view the listings of sin found in the NT,
---e.lee7537 on 2/17/13

STOP YOUR FOLLISHNESS RIGHT THERE!!!

This verse: Leviticus 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
Is not in the NT, are you saying that because itis not in the NT that if performed it is not a sin?
---francis on 2/18/13


\\...faith causes us to obey the most basic principal of the Old and New Testament. Love GOD and love others.\\
---Samuelbb7 on 2/17/13

Many people, from varying perspectives, say such as that in various forms

If any of you honestly believe that some kind of fruit, works, obedience, etc are the inevitable byproduct of faith,

why not just preach faith, and let the inevitable happen?

All the harping on works and fruit and obedience proves that you don't believe it's inevitable

Otherwise, you would simply preach the cause and let the inevitable effect happen as it will.
---James_L on 2/18/13


Bro. elee, you are so right in what you posted. The very reason that francis and others who support the laws for salvation always quote from the Old Testament. And when they quote from the New, the misinterpret what they put down. Then you give them the truth and they go back to the Old Testament. They just don't want to let go of the written letter of the Law into the Spirit of the Law. For what? To promote "Saturday Sabbath," not just the Sabbath. They don't care about Sunday Sabbath but Saturday and to be exact or else. If that is not been under the law then I don't know what else is.
---Mark_V. on 2/18/13


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circumcision vs baptism

Law which brought death vs grace which brings life.

If enforced, under O.T. Law, more of us would be stoned to death.

Jesus says, "Let the one with no sin be first to throw the stone." Thus the woman caught in adultery was spared.

animal sacrifice vs christ died once for all.

dietary law vs it is not what goes in a man that makes him unclean and do not call anything unclean that I have made clean.
---bike on 2/18/13


Samuel, you said it perfect. francis thinks the 10 commandments saved him. francis, guess what, sunday school today was about the 10 commandments. we are not saved by the commandments but we try to keep them after we are saved. we don't base our whole salvation on works. works are no good without faith.
---shira4368 on 2/17/13


Francis //Romans 6:15 What then? shall we have other gods, make graven image, and bow down to them, take the name of the LORD thy God in vain, not keep the Sabbath day holy, dishonor our father and thy mother, kill, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet, because we are not under the law, but under grace?

What is wrong with your interpretation of this verse is that the Sabbath, like physical circumcision was not imposed onto the Church.

If you view the listings of sin found in the NT, you will not find even a hint that breaking the Sabbath is a sin. If the OT Sabbath was required of Christians, then undoubtedly we would see it commanded in the Epistles as well as taught in the early church, but we do not.
---e.lee7537 on 2/17/13


//Isaiah 8:20 To the law AND to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Any student of the Bible would interpret the "they" in this verse as pertaining to those that seek the dead for their guidance instead of God.

All you need to do is to read the previous verse -

(8:19) And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

How can you possibly escape the fact that olde Ellen did her share of "peeping and muttering"?
---e.lee7537 on 2/17/13


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This is the BIBLE question that I would like everyone to give an answer to:

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we have other gods, make graven images and bow down to them, take the name of the LORD God in vain, not keep the sabbath day holy, dishonour our father and our mother, kill, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness,and covet, because we are not under the law, but under grace?

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we have other gods, make graven images and bow down to them, take the name of the LORD God in vain, not keep the sabbath day holy, dishonour our father and our mother,kill, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, and covet, that grace may abound?
---francis on 2/17/13


francis, here is the facts concerning our works, and when I say our works, I am speaking about those who are saved already by grace through faith.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, "not of works" lest anyone should boast. "For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works," (Eph. 2:8-10).
All those saved by Grace are created for good works by God. Those are the works only believers do, and let me say, their works are not perfect. Only Christ works are perfect. Our salvation is not of works for the simple reason that people like you boast it is your own works.
---Mark_V. on 2/18/13


One more time!


According to the Bible, anyone who does not have THE LAW written in his heart is NOT under the New Covenant!




---jerry6593 on 2/18/13


God's people do TWO things
Keep the commandments of God AND Have faith in Jesus

Isaiah 8:20 To the law AND to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1 Cor 7:19 .. what is important is keeping of the commandments of God

Rev 12:17 keep the commandments of God, AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 the saints: keep the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, AND keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
---francis on 2/17/13


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We are saved by Grace alone through faith alone. But our faith causes us to obey the most basic principal of the Old and New Testament. Love GOD and love others.

Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

The Jews of JESUS day tried to be saved by works. But salvation is only through grace alone and will always be only through grace alone. The law defines sin. But we are saved by Grace. Please read all of first John and all of Galatians especially ch. 6
---Samuelbb7 on 2/17/13


Romans 6:15 What then? shall we have other gods, make graven image, and bow down to them, take the name of the LORD thy God in vain, not keep the sabbath day holy, dishonour our father and thy mother,kill, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet, because we are not under the law, but under grace?


---e.lee7537 on 2/17/13
Your false teachings comes from calvin

Colossians 1:27 which is Christ in you,
2 Peter 1:4 ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
Ephesians 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith,

Christ does not mearly cover our sin, or give us his righteousnes, he IMPARTS ( GIVE) us his spirit ( well maybe not you but christians)
---francis on 2/17/13


"Many people today still want to include the law as a requirement for salvation. They want to live in the law and Christ."
---trey on 2/17/13

True!

And Rom 11:6 tells us that you CANNOT mix the law with grace.

To mix these 2 is to be LUKEWARM, and God will spew you out of His mouth, Rev 3:16.

Francis, God calls on you to repent of your lukewarm state, Rev 3:19.
Being lukewarm you neither keep the commandments perfectly AND then by these works you deny Him anyway, Tit 1:16.
---Haz27 on 2/17/13


Mr9:5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles, one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
(By the way, a tabernacle is something you live in.)

Peter here equated the law to the prophets and Christ.

God corrected Peter, "This is my beloved Son: hear him."

The law and the prophets of the Old Testament pointed to Christ! It is Christ alone that saves, not the law, and not the prophecies of scripture.

Many people today still want to include the law as a requirement for salvation. They want to live in the law and Christ.
---trey on 2/17/13


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//your doctrine does not come from God it comes from John Calvin and Westminster Confession of Faith.

All my doctrinal beliefs come only from the Bible, but your INTERPRETATION has to come from olde Ellen White - a wizard who peeped and muttered.

Isaiah 8: 19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

And you do seek the DEAD for your doctrinal views.
---e.lee7537 on 2/17/13


frances//You believe as I do,

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
----
But you as well as other Adventists do boast in what you call "Imparted Righteousness".

Martin Luther once stated in view of the Roman Church doctrine that the only righteousness we have is from God.

When you appear before Chirst, you will be totally naked.

Re 3:17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.

And you may not realize this but you will not have olde Ellen White there to defend you.
---e.lee7537 on 2/17/13


shira4368, Mark_V, e.lee7537,
Haz27 Do you all reaad the bible?

Prov 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Matt 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

Matt 5:19 whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.







---francis on 2/17/13


Frances //You believe as I do,
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You really speak out of both sides of your mouth. What you really preach is

For by grace are ye saved through obedience to the 10 commandments, something you view as imparted righteousness.

A cursory view of the SDA Investigative Judgment makes that abundantly clear - a doctrine that bases our salvation totally upon acquired righteousness, not God's unmerited favor.
---e.lee7537 on 2/17/13


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\\I say NO, because we are saved by grace we MUST keep the commandments, ALL TEN INCLUDING THE 4TH COMMANDMENT\\

One of the 10 Commandments forbids bearing false witness against someone.

Yet SDA literature does this all the time against the Roman Catholic Church.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/17/13


francis, you have a warped view of salvation and works.
---shira4368 on 2/16/13

You cannot point to one single post where I have ever said that salvation is by works.

You believe as I do,
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Now here is where you and I seem to differ:
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin ( NOT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS), that grace may abound?

I say NO, because we are saved by grace we MUST keep the commandments, ALL TEN INCLUDING THE 4TH COMMANDMENT

What do you shira4368 say?
---francis on 2/16/13


Sis. Shira, you have the wrong view of francis and Jerry, all they are doing is promoting Saturday Sabbath. And to do that they have to promote the Ten Commandments, even when passages speak of the whole law. Another thing they speak of is the days of creation, because they can bring out the Seventh day rest, again to point you to Saturday Sabbath. All the talk they make is but a smoke screen. You can give them Scripture after Scripture, it will not do you no good. More laws are brought out from the Old Testament. And let me tell you, there was many laws, over 600 of them. They cannot keep all of the laws but fight for Saturday. That's why SDA's are under the law.
---Mark_V. on 2/17/13


shira4368 on 2/16/13
You need to know whom you are serving:

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall... think to change times and laws:


Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:
Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

You are either serving the beast who tries to change Gods law and times, or serving Jesus who did not do away with the law, and ensures us that not one jot will be removed.



Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
---francis on 2/17/13


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francis, you have a warped view of salvation and works. you should know by now that works will not get you to heaven or will the commandments. salvation thru Jesus Christ is your only hope. you sure base your whole self absorbed doctrine that the commandments will save and I can show you many verses that say you won't get to heaven with works or the ten commandments.
---shira4368 on 2/16/13


Difference between the Old and New - the Holy Spirit to help us obey the laws, which are now by the Holy Spirit in our hearts

Being under law meant that every time one sinned, he had to take to the high priest his animal sacrifice for his sin, which showed faith that our Lord Jesus would as a lamb of God die for our sin (GRACE)

Now that Jesus has died, and we receive the grace of God, we are no looking on in faith to his death, we are no longer under the law which says when we sin, there must be death, the death has already been carried out on our behalf.

His death is grace.

Romans 6:15 shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace?

Romans 6:1 Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
---francis on 2/16/13


1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but (WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS) keeping of the commandments of God.
---francis on 2/16/13

Francis, you continue to avoid answering the question as to why you FAIL to KEEP the commandments?
---Haz27 on 2/16/13


---e.lee7537 on 2/16/13
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but (WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS) keeping of the commandments of God.

that should tell you that the law of circumcision and the commandments of God are not the same thing. Circumcision is a blood sacrifice, pointing to the cross. The Ten commandments say nothing about circumcision or any blood sacrifice.

your doctrine does not come from God it comes from John Calvin and Westminster Confession of Faith

If you had any interest in truth, you would spend you last days trying to correct the OPC of it's error of change from sabbath to sunday
---francis on 2/16/13


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The Old Law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
---billy9676 on 2/16/13


Francis //The new Covenant is also made with Israel and does not exclude any laws.

So you still believe in physical circumcision???????

Did the church err at the Jerusalem council in not demanding Gentile believers convert to Judaism?

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

It is YOU that does not speak according to God's word. Read the previous verse -

(8:19) And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

And did not olde Ellen the snake have a familiar spirit?
---e.lee7537 on 2/16/13


OLD COVENANT:
Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:...And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

They agreed to obey God, the holy spirit was not sought or promised, AND they failed to obey God's law.

Now God promised to Make a new covenant, and this time by His spirit he will write His laws in His peoples heart, so they will obey His law.

This difference in Old and New, THE NEW INVOLVES THE SPIRIT OF GOD writing the Law of God in our hearts. The spirit of God causing us to obey Him
---francis on 2/16/13


---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13
The new Covenant is also made with Israel and does not exclude any laws.

Jeremiah 31:31 the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:... I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.



The difference is that in the Old Covenant, there was no asking or promise of the spirit, and in the new there is the promise of the spirit to enable us to keep ALL HIS LAWS


Ezekiel 11:19 I will put a new spirit within you, That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God
---francis on 2/16/13


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lee,elee,maryg,etc.: All the out of context, twisted, obscure texts in the world will not get you out of the predicament that YOU are NOT under the New Covenant because you do not have "The Law" written on your heart, and because you are anti-Israel! Face it Lee, you are at odds with yourself as well as the Bible.



---jerry6593 on 2/16/13


Francis,

Mark_V is totally correct in that the Old Covenant was made only with the nation of Israel.

To enter such a covenant, the proselyte had to become circumcised, thereafter obligated to obey all OC laws.

Hebrews clearly states God made a New Covenant with Israel in which only those that believed in His son, could enter.

This New Covenant did not include laws unique to Judaism -the Sabbath, the dietary laws, the national festivals, etc. etc. etc.

Acts 15, the council of Jerusalem made that clear. However, Judaizers (modern day sabbaterians) today still believe that selected laws found only in the Old Covenant are stil applicable today. But they have many problems in supporting their beliefs.
---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13


rancis, the covenant in (Heb. 8:9) was the Covenant God made with Israel, to their fathers.

(Heb. 8:10) is talking about the New Covenant was spoken of in Jeremiah 31.
---Mark_V. on 2/15/13

yes the new covenant involved putingthe law in our hearts, the same law that they did not keep.

you say no one can keep the law
God said he will put his law in our hearts

why would God do such a thing if we are unable to keep the law, the same law that israel and judah did not keep?
---francis on 2/15/13


francis, the covenant in (Heb. 8:9) was the Covenant God made with Israel, to their fathers.
"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a Second. Because finding fault with them, He says, 'Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-" he was speaking of Jeremiah 31:32 which spoke of a New covenant. He continues,
"not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them out of the land of Egypt, because they did not continued in My covenant." That was the Old Covenant.
(Heb. 8:10) is talking about the New Covenant was spoken of in Jeremiah 31.
---Mark_V. on 2/15/13


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You are confused again. The New Covenant is kept perfect by Christ.
---Mark_V. on 2/15/13

Hebrews 8:8 For finding FAULT WITH THEM, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house
Judah

Christ also kept the old covenant perfectly. It was the people who broke the covenant

So why make a new covenant if the people who agree to this new covenant is going to be like those who agrred to keep the old one and did not keep it?
---francis on 2/15/13


Rob: Your question is flawed in that it assumes that the New Covenant is not under the Law. Every mention of the New Covenant in the Bible (both OT and NT) states that in the New Covenant, THE LAW is written in our hearts, with no change in THE LAW mentioned with the change. That very same Law resided inside the Ark of the Covenant in the temple of Ancient Israel and resides still in the throne of God in heaven today.


---jerry6593 on 2/15/13


francis, you now say,

"Even today, no one can keep the whole law and commandments,
---Mark_V. on 2/14/13

So Did God make the New Covenant in vain since no one can continue in( KEEP)the whole law?"


You are confused again. The New Covenant is kept perfect by Christ. No man can keep the whole law perfect, that is why we are in great need of Christ. You already heard this before, but it will not sink in. You want people to keep the law perfect, but not even you can keep it perfect, nor any SDA.
---Mark_V. on 2/15/13


Even today, no one can keep the whole law and commandments,
---Mark_V. on 2/14/13
So Did God make the New Covenant in vain since no one can continue in( KEEP)the whole law?


Hebrews 8:9 ... they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---francis on 2/14/13


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francis gives Old Covenant,
"OLD COVENANT:
Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, "if" ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation."

Old Covenant had a condition, "if" they obeyed. Guess what? No one could keep the Covenant with God. No salvation under the law. Even today, no one can keep the whole law and commandments, the reason people need Christ. Which is by grace through faith in the works of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 2/14/13


OLD COVENANT:
Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

And all the people answered yogether, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.

And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

______________________________
That is the Old Covenant
A simple agreement that they woudl do as God commanded, and He would be their God
The covenant was broken when they failed to obey God and turned to idols

God promised to make another covenant, this time giving them the spirit to enabel them to obey his laws
---francis on 2/13/13


Rob, WIVV answer is correct, worth repeating,
"
The Old Covenant was to show the Jew that they couldn't work their way into God's grace by keeping the law. Under the New Covenant, Christ fulilled the requirements of the Old Covenant.Matthew 5:17 (NASB)
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets, I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Because Christ was able to fulfill the requirements of the Law, a person today has access to this act of Christ simply by realizing that this is the only way to also meet the requirements of the Law that God established as a means of eternal life in heaven. Grace is: God's Riches At Christ's Expense."

Israel promised to obey God but failed.
---Mark_V. on 2/13/13


Earhly sanctuary >Hebrews 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Earthly high priest> Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come,

Lamb > John 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Light > John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Veil > Hebrews 10:20 that is to say, his flesh,

Oil* > Matthew 25:4 wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

Bread > John 6:48 I am that bread of life.

Water > John 4:13 , Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
---francis on 2/11/13


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OLD COVENANT:
Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

And all the people answered yogether, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.

And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.


NEW COVENANT
Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---francis on 11/4/12
---francis on 2/11/13


The Old Covenant was to show the Jew that they couldn't work their way into God's grace by keeping the law. Under the New Covenant, Christ fulilled the requirements of the Old Covenant.Matthew 5:17 (NASB)
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets, I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Because Christ was able to fulfill the requirements of the Law, a person today has access to this act of Christ simply by realizing that this is the only way to also meet the requirements of the Law that God established as a means of eternal life in heaven. Grace is: God's Riches At Christ's Expense.
---wivv on 2/10/13


If you do not need "commands" in order for you to do "goodness" (because you are a "LOVER OF GOODNESS"), then God can be "Abba Father" to you AND you can also be MASTER of yourself.
Philemon 1:14 "in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion".
Titus 1:8 "lover of goodness, master of himself".
2 Timothy 2:21 "If any one purifies from what is ignoble, then he will be a vessel for noble use, consecrated and useful to the master OF THE HOUSE".
Believers have always been taught and encouraged to be needy of "commands", and have actually become convinced that they are scoundrels (low self-esteem is part of human nature, the flesh weakness).
---more_excellent_way on 11/11/12


There are many TECHNICALITY differences between the covenants, but the FUNCTIONAL difference that needs understanding defines WHO WE ARE in God. Under the NEW covenant, we are supposed to be a SON to "Abba Father". The believers that will remain after the "shaking" (Hebrews 12:27) do not need commands (they don't need God to be a "MASTER"...only MASTERS have SLAVES).

Romans 8:23 "adoption as sons"......Galatians 4:5 "adoption as sons".

Most believers remain slaves, that is their choice (they need to be "commanded" and feel more comfortable with the teachings of man), yet all is not lost for them because..."For God is not so unjust....", Hebrews 6:9).
---more_excellent_way on 11/11/12


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I'll try and get to them, Steveng. By the way, how do you underline your name?
---pat on 11/11/12


Have you people not read:

Psalm 119:66
Proverbs 3:1
Psalm 89:31
Psalm 111:7
Matthew 5:19
Matthew 15:9
Luke 18:20
John 12:50
John 14:15
Romans 7:12
1 Corinthians 7:19 (circumcision is NOT a commandment, but is a law - for those who understand)
Ephesians 6:2
1 John 2:3, 4, 7
1 John 3:24
Revelation 12:17
Revelation 14:12
Revelation 22:14

And remember: all the commandments hang upon the ultimate commandment - LOVE, genuine love.

Therefore, the diference is OT equals physical love and the NT equals spiritual love.
---Steveng on 11/11/12


J Marc: Good point! Christ did indeed abloish law of commandments contained in ordinances relating to the Levitical sacrificial system, which were but prophecies of His future atonement for sin. But, in thus fulfilling the prophecy and paying the penalty for our sins, he established the permanancy of the Ten Commandment Law and the penalty (death) for transgressing it. Nowhere did He even hint that the standard for righteous behavior was abolished and a new one instituted in the New Covenant. He now writes His Ten Commandments on our hearts rather than on stone, but they have not changed one jot or tittle.


---jerry6593 on 11/10/12


The anointed Messiah abolished the old covant ordinances of blood by shedding his blood! Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances, for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace,Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
---J_Marc on 11/5/12


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Under the old covenant the people said a,,l that God said they would do. They did not do what God said. In fact they turned from God to idols. There ws nothing wrong with the covenant, the fault was with the people.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

God promise in the New Covenant is that he would but a new spirit in his people, He would change their hearts and make it possible for them to obey him.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh
---francis on 11/4/12


OLD COVENANT:
Exodus 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

And all the people answered yogether, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.

And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.


NEW COVENANT
Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---francis on 11/4/12


Jer 31:4 ...I will build thee, O virgin of Israel.
31 I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah
33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel...I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The new covenant is for God's elect race Israel. It is on earth, according to God's promise to the Patriarchs, and will be fulfilled during the thousand year reign of Christ.

The elect body of Christ takes no part in Jer 31. It is to, and for, Israel.

2C 3:6 is "a" new covenant, and distinct. It is spiritual, not earthly as Jer 31 clearly is.
---Phil on 11/4/12


When Israel's saints are resurrected to life for the coming age on earth [Jn 6:40,54 Hb 1:2], He will surely superimpose their hearts and inward parts with His law and Spirit.

Flesh cannot submit to God without Divine intervention. It requires a supernatural miracle.

They will perform and exercise the will of God, regenerated and born-again [Jn 3], their consciences totally tender towards their God and King.

They will be kings and priests unto God, for the healing of the nations, with the twelve apostles ruling over them from the Holy City on earth. Mt 19:28 Lk 22:30
---Phil on 11/4/12


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The New Covenant is an Old Testament concept. It is introduced by Jeremiah (Ch 31) and repeated by Paul in Hebrews (Ch 8 & 12). In all cases, the ONLY difference between the Old and the New Covenants is the location (heart vs stone), and not the content (The Law) of the Covenant. Those who claim that the New Covenant frees them from the requirement to obey "The Law" do NOT have scriptural justification. The scriptures simply say "I will put MY LAW in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts". It does not say "I will destroy the Old Law and put a New one in their hearts.


---jerry6593 on 11/4/12


2C 3:6 Who also makes us competent dispensers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the spirit, for the letter is killing, yet the spirit is vivifying.

The covenants of God with men were always in the earthly sphere.

Abraham believed God and left his country, uncircumcised.

He doubted God on the road, God reaffirmed His promise, and circumcised his flesh as testimony.

Both the fleshly promise and the spirit promise will be fulfilled.

Israel according to flesh will inherit the earth for a thousand years.

Those who are circumcised in heart, the body of Christ, inhabit the celestials during that time.
---Phil on 11/3/12


Heb 10:1 "For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect."

Gal 3:24,25 "the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."

2Cor 3:9 " if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory"

The N.C is the ministry of Spirit/Righteousness.
The O.C is the ministry of Death/Condemnation.

And grace and works CANNOT be mixed together, Rom 11:6. To do so is being lukewarm, Rev 3:16
---Haz27 on 11/3/12


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