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Does God Love All People

God declares to us that He loves and hates those He has created unconditionally. So why do many continue to say "God loves everyone and wants to save everyone", when it's so clear that's not the case. Care to explain?

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 ---christan on 11/3/12
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"Your ability to quote Scriptures does not even come close to the true understanding of what is being said and taught by the Holy Spirit. So much for your "spiritual discernment"...."
---christan on 11/12/12

I see..., a personal pipeline to some holy spirit? That's caled delussion. So, in your delussion you ignore Scripture because a little voice is telling you to not believe the Word of God? Gee, on the contrary Jesus repplied always, "It is written".
---Nana on 11/12/12


And MarkV, you resort to calling one paranoid for believing Jesus said He came to Preach the Gospel to the poor. Did you actually go back and read your own baxaar rantings and ravings?

I quote scripture and you still call names.

Are you OK MarkV, it appears something is really wrong with you. You're not able to see and distinquish your own wrong doing. What is that? Pride maybe? Arrogance maybe? Or just one without a conscience maybe?
---kathr4453 on 11/12/12


That the sinner has been "drawn by the Father" and not because of his own "free-will" but God's power.

And the final nail in your "free-will" coffin, " that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:65
---christan on 11/12/12

Christan,

It is speaking about we can not come to Jesus but by God's grace, it says nothing about remaining with Jesus or eternally secure with him. In fact some of those sinners who the Father gave to Jesus refuse to stay "From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him"V66 and he also to turn to the Apostles who Jesus did choose and said "You do not want to leave too, do you?V 67
---Ruben on 11/12/12


I don't see how anyone can read ALL of John 6 and not see man has a choice. We see clearly these men DID have a choice. God certainly will draw you, however being drawn does not save you. You see thousands came to Jesus here don't you!

Jesus even asked His Apostles, "will you leave me too"? Now why would Jesus ask such a thing if man had no free will to choose.

God never FORCED the Cross on anyone against their will, not even Jesus.

That's what eat my flesh and drink my blood means.

And it's only those who WILLINGLY surrender to the Cross (I am Crucified with Christ) who will be raised up in the Resurrection.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/12


Ruben, how on earth does John 6:35 & 40 imply the man has a choice? Please explain and I assure you that you will fall flat on your face with whatever you try to cook up.

And that's simply because you missed out the cause of one going and believing in Christ has 100% to do with, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." That the sinner has been "drawn by the Father" and not because of his own "free-will" but God's power.

And the final nail in your "free-will" coffin, "Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:65
---christan on 11/12/12




Let Scripture contradict your theology, "Jesus answered and said unto them, THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD, THAT YE BELIEVE on him whom he hath sent." John 6:29 and Romans 1:16, "for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth".

Know what this means? "Believing" is the work of God 100% - man completely 0%... NOTHING! Your "free-will" theory is miserably flawed.
---christan on 11/8/12

Christian,

On both scipture verse Man has to do his part:

"that you believe in Him whom He sent" Jhn 6:29

" everyone who believes"

God 100% and Man 100%..:)
---Ruben on 11/12/12


Nana, you obviously have no idea what the Father's will for the sinner is, do you? And judging by your "answer", it is for the man not to "hate or curse" another man. Well, sad to say that's not the Father's will for the sinner according to the Scripture.

Your ability to quote Scriptures does not even come close to the true understanding of what is being said and taught by the Holy Spirit. So much for your "spiritual discernment"....
---christan on 11/12/12


Nana, talk about how hating is sin, you and Kathr sure know how to do that very well. Not just you two, but a few others. You cannot answer with Scripture so you have to resort to a few baby steps, one stab in the back, at a time.
With me, I don't hate you Nana, but just because the RCC doctrines you follow have been questioned and exposed as false, you think it is an attack on you. It is not your fault, its the teachings of the church you follow, it is not you personally, and yes I know, you already said you were not a Catholic, but you do follow their teachings. You have been lied to, in other words deceived. That is why I say, it is not your fault.
---Mark_V. on 11/12/12


"ALL THAT THE FATHER GIVETH ME SHALL COME TO ME, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37

Do you see anywhere in the Scriptures that says, "you still need to choose Him". .
---christan on 11/9/12

Yes, verses 35 & 40:

Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and Whoever believes in me will never be thirsty"

"For my Fathers will is that Everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him "

You remind of me of those Jesus spoke about in JHN 5:40:

"These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."
---Ruben on 11/12/12


You speak of God not being present when a woman conceives, by mentioning the womb, yet God is present everywhere, He is Omnipresence. There is no place where He is not at. If you knew the real God of Scripture and the Bible you would know that.
---Mark_V. on 11/12/12

You sound like a New Ager MarkV.

God is not Presently in thewomb of sinners anymore than He is presently IN any sinner, much less the womb of a sinner.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/12




"So, the next time you quote the Word of God, I hope its with spiritual discernment."
"It will be interesting then to hear your understanding on what the "will of the Father" is. Do tell..."

christan

"According to Jesus, man should not hate or curse any man and as he only does the Father's will, what do you think is the Father's will?"
---Nana on 11/11/12

I only made a statement which you agreed with, "Hate or curse the man is indeed a sin". The only other thing I added is a question, 'what do you think is the Father's will?'.

Answer the question, it's you who needs spiritual discernment although that is a tall order since you can't even understand plain English!
---Nana on 11/12/12


"According to Jesus, man should not hate or curse any man and as he only does the Father's will, what do you think is the Father's will?" Nana

1. Hate or curse the man is indeed a sin BUT hate the doctrines of his/her lies does not equal to hating the man. Just like a Christian is to hate sin and not the man as per se, for by the same token we judge one we ourself by the same yardstick will be judged. So, the next time you quote the Word of God, I hope its with spiritual discernment.

2. It will be interesting then to hear your understanding on what the "will of the Father" is. Do tell...
---christan on 11/12/12


Follower, do you even read the Bible? you say,
"much more difficult for you because there are no scriptures that state any of these people have been judged.."
Here let me help you.
"He who believe in Him is not condemned, "but he who does not believe is condemned already,: because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God"
Here, clearly they have been judged already, waiting for the sentencing. I believe you missed that.
You have also created a god who is impotent. He cannot save who He wants, satan and sinful man stop him, that is why he is not the God of the Bible.
---Mark_V. on 11/12/12


Christan, take correction like an adult and not a child.

The ONLY "Sons of God", God individually CREATED are angels. Only they existed prior to the creation of the earth and the forming of Adam.

You were not individually created as was the angels.

So lets take tiny baby steps here and establish this truth.

After you can chew up and swallow this spoon full of BABY FOOD, maybe we can get some meat down you. Maybe one day YOU can cut and chew your own MEAT!

As long as you teach and believe you were individually created by God everything after that is suspect. Your question is based on a FALSHOOD.

What does "created unconditionally" mean...just more mumbo jumbo word games!
---kathr4453 on 11/12/12


Kathr, what comes out of your mouth, comes out of your heart. Your heretical views have no end, neither do your accusations to others. You say,

"God was not presently active or overshaddowing every woman's womb in bringing forth SONS OF GOD."

Then claim the sons of God were angels.
More proof of your heretical twisted mind.
It is God the Holy Spirit who makes alive the sons of God. When they are made alive in Christ they are adopted as His children.
You speak of God not being present when a woman conceives, by mentioning the womb, yet God is present everywhere, He is Omnipresence. There is no place where He is not at. If you knew the real God of Scripture and the Bible you would know that.
---Mark_V. on 11/12/12


"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you,"
Jesus, Matthew 5:44

"And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone, for I do always those things that please him."
Jesus, John 8:29

"For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me."
Jesus, John 6:38

According to Jesus, man should not hate or curse any man and as he only does the Father's will, what do you think is the Father's will?
---Nana on 11/11/12


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"Your doctrine christan is MORMON to the core." kathr

Again you expose the very darkness in your heart and that's because I belief in the Trinity and the mormons don't. I believe in the fall of Adam and all after him are born "dead in sins and trespasses", the mormons don't.

But wait a minute, don't you actually believe like what the mormons do, especially the part about not being "born dead in sins and trespasses"?

So, if you like calling names, at least know your enemies before you make a fool of yourself. On hind sight, you do that very well.
---christan on 11/11/12


Christan, the ONLY Sons of God "CREATED" are the Angels.

God commanded man to procreate. The difference too is Angels cannot procreate, that is why each and every one are individually CREATED.

Your doctrine christan is MORMON to the core.

And your attitude towards those who rebuke your false doctrine is rotten to the core!
---kathr4453 on 11/11/12


Isaiah 54:15 "Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake."

Hosea 8:11 "Because Ephraim hath made many altars to sin, altars shall be unto him to sin.
I have written to him the great things of my law, but they were counted as a strange thing."

Well is said in Ecclesiastes 7:29 "Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright, but they have sought out many inventions."
---Nana on 11/11/12


Keep dreaming.....
---christan on 11/11/12

Taking refuge in dreams is unprofitable in this present era. I lend no credence to them.

God's redemption and judgment are part of His creative work.

Gn 1:27 And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image.

Redemption and Judgment are parts of the whole. Tunnel vision prevent apprehension of the whole picture, the creation of mankind in His image and likeness.

He finishes what He starts.

Creeds, tradition, and sectarianism all have contributed to this illness.

Did He show mercy, you say?

Scripture says,"For God locks up all together into stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all."

You contend with God, not me.
---Phil on 11/11/12


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"God was not presently active or overshaddowing every woman's womb in bringing forth SONS OF GOD." kathr

Then who was? You? Your ignorance and darkness of Jesus's declaration is clear for all to see. Didn't Christ declare, "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work." John 5:17

Only you and your god are lazy, just talk, talk, talk. And not only talk but lies coming out of your heart saying "God was not presently active or overshaddowing every woman's womb..."

You see, God has told us He creates evil and in order for evil to exist, He must bring forth evil so that He can demonstrate His power over evil. Sound familiar?
---christan on 11/11/12


"God will show mercy to everyone." Phil

Really? Let's see in the accounts of the Holy Bible. Did He show mercy to:

- Caine after he killed his brother Abel?
- the world when He brought forth the flood save eight souls in the ark?
- Sodom and Gomorrah when He sent fire and brimstone destroying the cities?
- to Pharaoh and his army?
- to seventy thousand Israelites when He smote them in one go (see 2 Samuel 24)

And if He was going to show mercy to "everyone", why would He prophesy that He's going to destroy the world and everyone in it save His elect, with Holy fire in 2 Peter 3?

Keep dreaming.....
---christan on 11/11/12


"Yes God does want to save everyone." FOC

And it will be difficult for you to explain


much more difficult for you because there are no scriptures that state any of these people have been judged, sentenced, and perished, seeing that judgement is a future event to be executed by a merciful God, not the satanic god you paint across this website!!

God stated:

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world.. "

Romans 11:26 "...all Israel shall be saved"

1 Timothy 2:4 " ..all men to be saved, ..."



John 12:47
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
---Follower_of_Christ on 11/11/12


"God did not INDIVIDUALLY CREATE people." kathr

You know what? They deeper we get into the theology of God, the more you are being exposed to be really a false Christian. What is it in the Gospel of John 1:3 that made you say what you said without grounds of the Truth?

"All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made."

This verse alone is without any exception to God's creation including Adam and Eve and all his posterity that comes after them. Including someone like you. For now, created in unbelief of His Word.
---christan on 11/11/12


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---Mark_V. on 11/10/12
Phil, do you not realize what you are doing?"

I declare the truth of Scriptures. I argue nothing, I seek to believe them.

God is sovereign:

Ro 11:32 For God locks up all together into stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.

God will show mercy to everyone. He will save all men through His just judgments and His Son. He will lose nothing.

1Ti 4:10 for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men--especially of those believing.

All means all, not some. All locked up in stubbornness, and all shown mercy and redemption.

These are not my words. These are the words of God.
I do not argue with God.
---Phil on 11/11/12


Follower, you say as others,

"Yes God does want to save everyone."

If God is omnipotent, then why are so many going to hell? He is God after all. He is the same yesterday today and forever. He never loses His power. How is it possible that He cannot do what He wills to do? what force in His creation stops Him from accomplishing what He wants? Is there a molecule more powerful then God? Please explain your theology of God? It is easy to talk, but not easy to proof from Scripture that He does not do what He wants because some force out there stops Almighty God.
Let me help you,
"But He is of one mind, and who can turn Him? and what His soul desireth, even that He doeth" (Job 23:13).
---Mark_V. on 11/11/12


Christan, you are totally confused. God did not INDIVIDUALLY CREATE people. God created Adam out of the Dust of the earth, and then formed Eve out of Adam's rib.

So this false teaching that your god individually "created" some to salvation and individually "created" others for hell/damnation is so false, right from the very beginning of your thoughts.

IN ADAM All died. Once you get that through your brainwashed head, then you may, maybe begin to see the truth.

God was not presently active or overshaddowing every woman's womb in bringing forth SONS OF GOD.

That ONLY happened with Mary, and it only happened ONCE. AND even Jesus was not "CREATED" in Mary's womb...got that!
---kathr4453 on 11/11/12


"Yes God does want to save everyone." FOC

And it will be difficult for you to explain to those, such as Caine, Pharaoh, King Saul or even Judas that actually "God does want to save you" but you didn't choose/accept Him, that's why they are in Hades. Is this how it's taught in the Bible?

But I do know Jesus declared, "Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. And what's the "it" implying? Obviously "SALVATION"! Paul even confirmed, "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are His." 2 Timothy 2:19
---christan on 11/10/12


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//He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
---chrias9396 on 11/4/12//
//Great verses FoC and Chrias.
---Rod4Him on 11/4/12//
//my guess is that it is related to the reason that some say that I am saved and you are not despite all of the Word and the way that they act towards others.
---aka on 11/3/12//

Agree.

Shalom
---char on 11/10/12


Christan
I am not confused and I am not decieved. My response in no way implies that we are not Christ's disciples or that we are left to fend for ourselves. I am well aware that in the same chapter Jesus prayed for future disciples. I stand by my post
---pg1 on 11/10/12


Phil, do you not realize what you are doing? You are arguing points of faith against each other. When you started you spoke for the sovereignty of God and how God has chosen some an not others, and now you give passages that seem to imply He saves everyone. You went from one extreme to another extreme. I believe you are arguing points you don't have to and confusing yourself a whole lot. Take a deep breath, say a prayer, ask God to remove all bias in your heart, and to show you the truth. If you seek God He will help you.
---Mark_V. on 11/10/12


"'Destruction and misery are in their ways,
. And the way of peace they have not known.'"
. . . . . . . . (in Romans 3:16-17)

John the Baptist says, "A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven." (in John 3:27) If we are disobedient by nature, we need for God to give us an obedient heart. "But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered." (Romans 6:17) So, obeying God is together with Him > "one spirit with Him" (1 Corinthians 6:17) working in us "both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13) He shares with us what it takes (c:
---willie_c: on 11/10/12


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Yes God does love everyone.

Yes God does want to save everyone.

It can be difficult for the unbeliever to understand how God hates sin, yet wants to save everyone, including the tribe of Judah.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Luke 6:36
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
---Follower_of_Christ on 11/10/12


"Yep Jesus is giving you to choose (Listen and Learn) to come to him or not!" Ruben

These are you very own words, "So those who the Fater draws v44 are the ones who listen and learn!" 11/9/12. You've just contradicted yourself!

"ALL THAT THE FATHER GIVETH ME SHALL COME TO ME, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37

Do you see anywhere in the Scriptures that says, "you still need to choose Him". The Father's drawing will indeed bring the sinner to the Son, that's the cause and effect of drawing as told by Christ in the above quote. It's a given when one is born of the Spirit that the He WILL bring the sinner to Christ.
---christan on 11/9/12


Phil, you have gone out of your mind now. Your now teaching Universal salvation by arguing for (1 Tim. 4:10). God is not the Savior of all man from the wrath to come. Paul was not teaching universal salvation since the rest of Scripture clearly teaches that God will not save everyone. Most will reject Him and spend eternity in hell (Matt. 25:41,46: Rev. 20:11-15). Yet the Greek word translated "especially" must mean that all men enjoy God's salvation in some way like those who believe enjoy His salvation. God is the Savior of all men, only in a temporal sense, while of believers in an eternal sense. All earthly men experience some earthly benefits from the goodness of God. Some were sick and God saved them from death.
---Mark_V. on 11/9/12


---J_Marc on 11/9/12"
God loves everyone and wants to save everyone", when it's so clear that's not the case."

Scripture refuses your position,
1C 15:27-28
Eph 1:10
Phl 3:21
Col 1:20
Ro 5:18
1Ti 2:4 Who will [G2309 thelo] have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Thelo means determined will. It is not wish for, desire, hope for, want, or maybe. It means "will".

He is the Saviour of all, or it would say saviour of some. It does not.

1Ti 4:10 the living God, who is the Saviour of all men
---Phil on 11/9/12


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"the apostle to the Gentile nations, never called us "disciples". We are disciples of no one." Phil

"The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." Acts 11:26. It's very clear you're not a Christian then? Afterall, a Christian is one who follows after Jesus Christ. Any follower of Christ by faith is also known as His disciple.

"Unless one is Jewish, in His presence, it is impossible to be His disciple."

Really? Wasn't it the Jews who crucified Him? Does one need to be a Jew to be Christ's disciple? Romans 10:12, "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."
---christan on 11/9/12


christan * Ruben, so "everyone" to you are those who "listen & learn"? You mean they do not need to be "born of the Spirit" first in order to "listen & learn" of God? Are you advocating "free-will" is involved here? Really?

Sounds like you have a issue with Jesus himself. After all, he is the one who said "Who listens and learns"

Yep Jesus is giving you to choose (Listen and Learn) to come to him or not!
---Ruben on 11/9/12


"And Christians today are not Christ's disciples and face no trials and tribulations in their walk?"

Paul, the apostle to the Gentile nations, never called us "disciples". We are disciples of no one.

That is reserved for those under the direction of a teacher. We have no teacher [1Jn 2:27]

We are His workmanship. He is forming us. It is a miraculous and Divine operation wrought by the hand of God

Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Unless one is Jewish, in His presence, it is impossible to be His disciple.
---Phil on 11/9/12


John 6:28_30 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?"

The work of God refers to what is required of man, hence "that we might work the works of God?".

'Believe on him whom he hath sent', John 17:20 "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word,"
---Nana on 11/9/12


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Christian, you asked why do many continue to say "God loves everyone and wants to save everyone", when it's so clear that's not the case. Care to explain? 2nd Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
---J_Marc on 11/9/12


"Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me" (Jhn 6"45)" (v.6:44)
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day" Did you hear that? For it is written in the prophets that those same people who are drawn by the Father will hear from Him and learn from Him, those only go to Jesus. (v.45)
Don't forget to read the context, otherwise you miss the whole message. Peace
---Mark_V. on 11/9/12

Mark,

Read it again it says those Who listens and learns. Verse 45 comes after verse 44. So those who the Fater draws v44 are the ones who listen and learn!
---Ruben on 11/9/12


"That prayer was specifically for His disciples because he knew the difficulties they would face in the world after his death." pg1

And Christians today are not Christ's disciples and face no trials and tribulations in their walk? Seriously, what are you really trying to say? That the Christians of today are left to fend for themselves since Christ didn't pray for them but only for the apostles?

"The two scriptures can be reconciled because they are two diifferent concepts."

"different concepts" of what? Salvation? That one is chosen by God and the rest will have to use their own "free-will" to go to Him? Boy, are you really confused and deceived.
---christan on 11/9/12


Ruben, so "everyone" to you are those who "listen & learn"? You mean they do not need to be "born of the Spirit" first in order to "listen & learn" of God? Are you advocating "free-will" is involved here? Really?

Let Scripture contradict your theology, "Jesus answered and said unto them, THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD, THAT YE BELIEVE on him whom he hath sent." John 6:29 and Romans 1:16, "for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth".

Know what this means? "Believing" is the work of God 100% - man completely 0%... NOTHING! Your "free-will" theory is miserably flawed.
---christan on 11/8/12


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Christian, the true problem is that man does not see himself as evil(Matt 7:11, Rom 8: 7-8). Man does not see himself as a sinner who was at emnity with God (Rom 5:10) before God effectually called (Isa 55:11, John 10:27) him and drew him unto Christ (Jer 31:3, John 6:37). Man believes he made the decision to follow Christ of his own will when the scriptures teach that we were dead in sins (Eph 2:1) and unable to come to God (John 6:44) until he acted upon us. Man wants to claim free will when the scriptures clearly teach God's effectual calling through the new birth (Rom 8:15,Tit 3:5).
---trey on 11/8/12


Not everyone will accept JESUS. But everyone will be convicted of sin.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/8/12

No one has ever "accepted" Jesus. Not even His own disciples chose to follow Him.

Jn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you.

God chooses, and then empowers, those whom He designates beforehand for vessels unto His glory. One cannot ordain himself. Neither does one come to God without being drawn of the Father [Jn 6:44]

The Bible speaks of no such thing as "accepting Christ". God alone does this work, or it would invariably become boasting.

I suspect this false teaching is prevalent among the eternal torment sects.
---Phil on 11/9/12


Ruben, you say to Christan,

"And who are those given to Jesus by the Father, scripture tells us :
"Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me" (Jhn 6"45)"


And who are those who listen to the Father? You forgot again to write the other verse (v.6:44)
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day" Did you hear that? For it is written in the prophets that those same people who are drawn by the Father will hear from Him and learn from Him, those only go to Jesus. (v.45)
Don't forget to read the context, otherwise you miss the whole message. Peace
---Mark_V. on 11/9/12


Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Jhn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

I suppose world does not actually mean everyone in the world. Not everyone will accept JESUS. But everyone will be convicted of sin.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/8/12


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Christian
Context is key. That prayer was specifically for His disciples because he knew the difficulties they would face in the world after his death. Basicly he was saying right now my only concern is that my disciples will be ok when I leave. Has nothing to do with God's love for all of humanity. The two scriptures can be reconciled because they are two diifferent concepts.
---pg1 on 11/8/12


christan * John 17:9 when Christ continued, "...but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine.",

And who are those given to Jesus by the Father, scripture tells us :

"Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me" (Jhn 6"45)

Remember (Mind you, Scripture NEVER contradict Scripture.)


christan * clearly confirming that "God has elected only some to salvation in Christ".


"many are called, but few are chosen." Did God fail in His calling when He calls many, yet only "few" make it? Really!!


---Ruben on 11/8/12


MarkV.

Thanks, not my words but 1 Jn 4 and 1 Jn 2.
---chria9396 on 11/8/12


Samuelbb7, it says so in John 3:16. BUT have you considered the verse in context of the whole chapter of John 3? If according to your understanding and majority here, "the world" represented mankind in whole, why then did Jesus pray to the Father, "I pray for them: I pray not for the world..." in John 17:9?

You'll be hard pressed to reconcile John 3:16 and John 17:9. Mind you, Scripture NEVER contradict Scripture. And the answer for John 3:16 "the world" is made clear in John 17:9 when Christ continued, "...but for them which thou hast given me, for they are thine.", clearly confirming that "God has elected only some to salvation in Christ".
---christan on 11/8/12


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Lastly Peopl do not burn in hell for all eternity. JESUS said the wages of sin is death. I trust what JESUS says.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/7/12

No, We are eternal spiritual beings with a will. If we choose to be with God we will be with God if we reject God we will be without God. Heaven is the presence of God. Hell is the absense of God. There is no end, there is no second chance. The Lord gives us our hearts desire.
---Scott1 on 11/8/12


For GOD so loved the world is what the bible says. But many say it does not mean what it says. The Rich man who turned away from JESUS the Bible says that JESUS loved him. But we have freedom of choice.

At least those of us who read all the parts of the Bible instead of only choosing those that agree with what we already decided.

Lastly Peopl do not burn in hell for all eternity. JESUS said the wages of sin is death. I trust what JESUS says.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/7/12


6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:6-8
---pg1 on 11/7/12


Pat, I agree with what you wrote. You are correct. People now say, "that God loves the sinner but hates their sin."
It is a cliche, which is very common among Christians. But that is not true at all. First of all if He loved them, why are they going to the Lake of fire if His love never changes? Second, the reason the cliche is wrong is because God's love for the sinner is only made available in His Son, Jesus Christ.
So I agree with your statement.
---Mark_V. on 11/7/12


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Pat
Your post is very telling. I noticed you stated it is what "we call it" but what does Scripture have to say about the matter. Your kind teaching is the reason people want nothing to do with Christianity. Sometimes I wonder how you and others can sleep at night or have any peace in your lives. All you do is spread hate. The sad part is that you do it in the name of the Lord.
---pg1 on 11/6/12


There is a kind of love between God and the sinners. We call it the "love of benevolence". Love of good will. In that God allows the sinner to go on living one more minute on this earth. God lets it rain on the just and the unjust. And then there is God's "complacent love", in- which He has a pleasure in-affection for- admiration of. God has absolutely no complacent love for the sinner. God is perfectly displeased with the sinner. The sinner hates God. Disobeys God. Ungrateful to God for all His favors. Would kill God if he could. Construing God's love of benevolence as a love of complacency is fatal. Instead of divine forbearance leading to repentance, it is use as an excuse for non-repentance.
---pat on 11/5/12


Willie C, this one I disagree. You gave (Matt. 11:28) Only those who hear come to Him. His sheep hear His voice only. (v.11:27) we read
"....and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one" to whom the Son wills to reveal Him" That's how we know the Son reveals the Father. And only those (ones) whom He wills to reveal. If Christ does not reveal the Father, no one knows of the Father.
If God loved everyone the same, why do some suffer of hunger in poor countries, while others have plenty of food? Why do some suffer at death, while others don't? Why does He answer some prayers and others He don't? He does not show the same love for everyone.
---Mark_V. on 11/5/12


Not our will, it's his will being done! Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:Malalchi 1:2-3 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.
---J_Marc on 11/5/12


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"If God were your Father, you would love Me,

Look at the tense it is in the past. What Jesus is saying is if you loved God (The God of you father Abraham) and not your self-righteousness of your works. You would see the true salvation in Me [Jesus].

In reality we are argueing the same point from different viewpoints. I see God with an open hand begging us to surrender for salvation (repeated OT "return to me and I will bless your land".) You see God picking winners and losers (aka your view of predesination) and both are in the Bible, thats cool.
---Scott1 on 11/5/12


It is unreasonable to conclude God has no hatred in Himself. To exclude this emotion from being inherent in the Divine is to deny His fullness.

What He has and we lack, is the knowledge and the wisdom to balance our emotions in a righteous way.

We allow hatred, without cause at times, to overwhelm. He never will do the same.

Without God's holy spirit, human hatred is defiled and uncontrolled, whereas divine hatred is righteous and always serves towards the ultimate of displaying His loving-kindness.

God's hatred is not His essense. It will never overcome His love of His creation. He will become All in all [1C 15:28].
---Phil on 11/5/12


Scott 1, sounds good what you said, and many here believe as you do, but it's not biblical. you said,

"The thing that stops God from loving us (grace) is the God given ability for us to love him."

No where are we told someone or something can stop God. We are never told we have a god=given ability to love God while lost. Only believers have a God-given ability. T
Jesus said to them,
"If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God, Nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me." (John 8:42).
Here Jesus indicates that only those who are children of the Father love Christ.
---Mark_V. on 11/5/12


Using the Scripture, "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love", one has to be careful what this really means. This verse particularly talks about "God's love".

When someone outside of Christ shows "love" and even claim they "love" their fellow man, it does not mean the "love of God" is in them. The "love" the world professes to show and have is carnal and definitely not of God. How so?

That's because "God's love" is what saves the sinner from their sins and they will believe that Christ was the one who atoned and redeemed them from the curse of the law. Truth be told, God does not "love" everyone!
---christan on 11/5/12


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Does this mindset make it easier or harder to promote or practice evangelism?
---Scott1 on 11/5/12


But Jesus says, "'Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.'" (Matthew 11:28-30)

So, Jesus loves "all", by calling to "all". And Jesus died on the cross for all of us . . . though, I understand, He knew many would refuse His love for us.

God "loved the world", by giving "His only begotten Son" (John 3:16). It does not say He loved only certain ones of "the world". So, I see He wants us also to love all . . . though ones will refuse our love.
---willie_c: on 11/5/12


MarkV
//God chose some to life, and the others He didn't. (I agree but see below). Pretty simple. And of course those who believe in 'free will' will always oppose God having the ultimate right to chose whom He wants to have mercy on. They want to have the right...If God who is Almighty, Ruler of heaven and earth, wanted to save everyone, nothing stops Him.//

The thing that stops God from loving us (grace) is the God given ability for us to love him. Love for God or from us is a choice. Since we were made in the image of God and God is love thus we have the choice, like God, to choose or reject him. The prodical son (us) chose not to love his father (God) until him came to his senses.
---Scott1 on 11/5/12


Chrias, excellent answer you gave especially when you said,

"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."

That is what I have been trying to tell all those who preach free will. They don't have a love for God because they don't know God, how in all the world can they come to Him while lost? Impossible. God by His Holy Spirit has to change their disposition, bring them to spiritual life together with Christ in order for them to love Him. Otherwise it is impossible for them to love God, for they don't know Him.
---Mark_V. on 11/4/12


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Follower, your passages no where say God loves everyone the same.
1. Acts 10:34, is talking about nations, in this case not only Israel but other nations, for the next passages tells us the answer.
2. Jude 1:21, Keep yourselves in the love of God, is speaking about believers already who have the love of God already.
3. 1 John 5:3, For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, only believers keep His commandments, the others none seeks after God.
4. 1 Tim. 2:4, does not mean God will save all men since many are in hell already by God's curse and their rejection of Christ.
5. 2 Peter 3:9, is referring to the elect, the 'we' "us" the beloved in (v. 8).
---Mark_V. on 11/4/12


Great verses FoC and Chrias.
---Rod4Him on 11/4/12


Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed His love among us: He sent His one and only Son into the world that we might live through Him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God, but if we love one another, God lives in us and is love is made complete in us.
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
---chrias9396 on 11/4/12


Yes holy scripture confirms God loves everyone and wants to save everyone.


Acts 10:34
"... Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons"

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
---Follower_of_Christ on 11/3/12


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The reason they say God loves everybody is because they do not understand that when God speaks of the Beloveth, He is speaking concerning His children. Even the writers of Scripture calls them the beloveth. God loves His creation, but out of that creation, God chose some to life, and the others He didn't. Pretty simple. And of course those who believe in 'free will' will always oppose God having the ultimate right to chose whom He wants to have mercy on. They want to have the right. Sinful man at that. If God who is Almighty, Ruler of heaven and earth, wanted to save everyone, nothing stops Him. If someone stops Him, then He is not God, and those who stopped Him are.
---Mark_V. on 11/4/12


It is clear it says "God is love," in 1 John 4:8 & 16. And Paul says, "For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." (1 Timothy 4:10) His love does good "especially" for "those who believe." But ones who refuse miss out.

A father loves all his kids, but the one who does drugs, anyway, misses out on the good he or she could have with daddy.

Jesus "is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (in 1 John 2:2) But people disobey this. And God will use the disobedient for His loving purpose, anyway, because He "is love."
---willie_c: on 11/4/12


my guess is that it is related to the reason that some say that I am saved and you are not despite all of the Word and the way that they act towards others.
---aka on 11/3/12


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