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State Secession Petitions

What are your thoughts on the different states secession petitions? Are they right in wanting to separate?

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 ---Reba on 11/13/12
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\\I would hope that every state unites and leave the biggest liberal state out, California. \\

The states are already united. Hence the name of our country.

Furthermore, there is no Constitutional or other legal provision for expelling a state, or part thereof.

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/26/13


I would hope that every state unites and leave the biggest liberal state out, California. Maybe it will separate from the rest of the states one day. For most of the immoral actions of those in this state have change the way people live without God. Not only the liberal people, but the actors and movie makers, and politicians.
---Mark_V. on 11/19/12


The first leaders of the United States understood they had the divine right to cast off the king's cruel and dirty dealing rulership. So, if the federal government is cruel and dirty dealing with a state, yes leaders might decide they have the right to secede from a cruel and dirty federal government.

But Jesus says, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews" (in John 18:36). So, I can see Jesus would not have a state fighting for itself. Ones who might fight for secession have themselves been cruel and dirty dealing with Afro people, tribal peoples, and the unborn. Jesus might say, "Let the one without sin fight."
---willie_c: on 11/18/12


//Classical Christianity has always taught that the CHURCH is the new Israel.
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/17/12 //

Good commentary, where is your scripture?
---michael_e on 11/18/12


\\Israel is the focus of the end times, not the boC, which makes no distinction between Jew and Gentile.\\

This was the big error of Darby.

Classical Christianity has always taught that the CHURCH is the new Israel.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/17/12




//But you have NO BCV where the rapture happens BEFORE the tribulation.//

Israel is the focus of the end times, not the boC, which makes no distinction between Jew and Gentile. During the tribulation, God's focus will be on the nation of Israel. As Gabriel said in Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks ( years) are determined upon thy people ...." That's Daniel's people, Israel. The first 69 weeks have passed and one remains. In Rev 7, the 144,000 are chosen from Israel, their tribes are listed. Rev 11:7-8 the two witnesses are martyred in Jerusalem. Rev 12:6, the woman that flees into the wilderness for 1260 days represents Israel in the great tribulation.
---michael_e on 11/17/12


states not wanting to secede there are petitions within every state asking state to peacefully secede. why you ask? 47.1 million people receiving foodstamps today, 45% increase since obama took office another hid fact during campaign. gas prices dropped a month before the election, watch gas prices rocket to over $4.00 a gallon after xmas season to make up for election prices, and unemployement will be reported correctly at 10%+, oh by the way, as of october 18.5 million vacant homes by foreclosure and 4 million homeless in america, ouch that's a slap. that benghazi thing, obama supporters didn't care about that or men who lost their lives at all their votes proved it, hey just saying while I still have the freedom of speech
---Follower_of_Christ on 11/17/12


Cluny: I haven't stereotyped the Tea Party at all. I've totally disagreed with their entire platform, especially fiscally. I've never said anything all or nothing about them. When I referred to the racists, I said "Some Tea Partiers...."

Please show me where I have stereotyped them. I have said that they are the extreme right of the Republican party, which is correct.

I've also said that the extremes on both sides of the aisle are dangerous. Extreme left, you have Communism. Extreme Right, and you have the Tea Party.
---Trish on 11/17/12


\\One of the problems I have observed here on CNet is that too many people think in all or nothing thinking about politics. Example: Follower labeling anyone who voted for Obama an "Obama Worshipper." \\

Actually, I think we both realizing that voting in a representative democracy frequently means choosing what the voter considers the lesser of two bad choices.

\\That type of labeling does nothing by alienate by stereotyping in a very judgmental, critical way.\\

And you never stereotype--not even the Tea Partiers.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/17/12


NurseRobert, I don't like debating & arguing back & forth in these posts,it doesn't seem to get anywhere. Besides, it's not just "one" thing our leaders today have done that has given me this impression. It's alot of things combined. & should I list them, you & others would possible have different views on how those actions affect our nation. Like Obamacare, unemployment, our constitutional rights... Therefore, I don't feel the need to list all the reasons here. Like I said, it's my opinion....
---Reba on 11/17/12




\\You don't actually have the BCV do you?\\

Yes. But you have NO BCV where the rapture happens BEFORE the tribulation.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/17/12


Show ONE verse that says there's a pre-trib rapture.---Cluny on 11/16/12

God removes His elect from judgment througout His revelations to us. He cannot be unjust to suffer those whom He justifies. Grace and divine judgment cannot be mixed, or God is defamed.

Shall we suffer the poor choices of evil men and governments till He returns? Yes, we will, no doubt.

But the Day of the Lord, the start of the tribulation period of Israel and the nations, cannot happen till that which detains is removed out of the way, the body of Christ.

He will not be unjust to afflict those whom He has already declared "not guilty".

The creeds have obscured this, and careful study will uncover this aspect of God.
---Phil on 11/17/12


IN MY OPINION, he's proven that the citizens of the U.S. are not high on his protection list.
---Reba on 11/16/12

Reba, may I asked what he did to give you this impression?
---NurseRobert on 11/17/12


//God already has revealed that there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.//

You don't actually have the BCV do you?






---michael_e on 11/16/12


Cluny, I'm aware that there are minority members of the Tea Party. I simply know that the racist signs I saw in the media were at Tea Party rallies.

I'm also aware that there is prejudice within the minorities.

When I share my experience, or opinion, it is not based in absolutes, unless it is about doctrine or Scripture.

One of the problems I have observed here on CNet is that too many people think in all or nothing thinking about politics. Example: Follower labeling anyone who voted for Obama an "Obama Worshipper." That type of labeling does nothing by alienate by stereotyping in a very judgmental, critical way.
---Trish on 11/16/12


\\//God already has revealed that there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.//
BCV please
---michael_e on 11/16/12\\

Show ONE verse that says there's a pre-trib rapture.

Trish, there are blacks and latinos among Tea Partiers. (I'm not one, btw)

In any case, anti-Euro-American racism exists among ethnic minorities, too. Racism is racism, regardless of who has it, or against whom it's directed.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/16/12


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//God already has revealed that there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.//
BCV please
---michael_e on 11/16/12


Reba, I didn't say all who are discontented are racists. I do remember seeing signs at Tea Party rallies that referred to the president with racial epithets.

I'm well aware that there are many, like yourself, who disagree with the president, and other Democrats like myself, purely on ideological ideas.

I do know that since 2008 there has been certain extremists in the media that have been fueling an air of fear about Obama. I'm referring to Rush and Beck. They are dangerous and under educated.
---Trish on 11/16/12


Trish, bless you. check out on youtube this.black.lady shocking to me! She sound racist" she do not like Obama mentions like crazy people would do.saying he is more eastern afrikan and white. has nothing to do with his job. claims black gospel singers famous who support him in league with Satan. I listen to her and I don't see her as credible. but she doesnt mention nothing seemly "real" she talks bad about John p.Kee and Yolanda Adams & others
Not everyone who preach and sing is evil. '"Outing Black gospel singers and all support Obama' she claims you hear Kee say "thankyou Satan". I do not have computer so I can't hear it. She 2 tapes
Love agape. ELENA
---ELENA on 11/16/12


Trish, I don't agree with your saying that people dislike the pres. because he's black. They knew his color when they voted him in. Color has nothing to do with how I feel about him. IN MY OPINION, he's proven that the citizens of the U.S. are not high on his protection list. I vote for the man, not his color or even gender for that matter. I just want our leader to feel we are important enough to fight for & protect. Sometimes I feel that our leaders today are only holding out for the highest bidder for our freedom.:-/
---Reba on 11/16/12


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\\Many of the secessionists are racists, who despise the president because he's black, no other reason.
---Trish on 11/16/12\\

Did you know there was a secessionist movement after the 2004 election, but it didn't get the attention this one is getting?

There have always been malcontents after an election. I voted for Romney, but God is still in control of things, including who is occupying the White House.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/16/12


\\God has the right to keep secrets until He reveals it\\

This is the lie (I meant to type "line," but decided to let my typo stand) that cults such as SDA, LDS, JW, and the like hide behind.

God already has revealed that there is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture.

\\1 Thess. chapt 4 being one of the things revealed.
Peter, James and John had no clue\\

If you think this is talking about a pre-trib rapture, then YOU have no clue.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/16/12


//This is the one and single Resurrection of the Dead when Jesus returns. There is no secret rapture of the Church.
---Cluny on 11/14/12 //
God has the right to keep secrets until He reveals it.
Deut 29:29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

God revealed some things to Paul,
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1 Thess. chapt 4 being one of the things revealed.
Peter, James and John had no clue
---michael_e on 11/16/12


Reba: We the people spoke on November 6th. It's up to the people in Congress to listen to the voters.

Many of the secessionists are racists, who despise the president because he's black, no other reason.
---Trish on 11/16/12


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This is the one and single Resurrection of the Dead when Jesus returns. There is no secret rapture of the Church.
---Cluny on 11/14/12

I would that the Scriptures supported your postions. They do not.

There are three resurrections. Israel the Bride of the Lamb on earth, the body of Christ in clouds, and the condemned dead at the White Throne Judgment.

The snatching away of the body of Christ is no secret. It is plainly put forth in 1Th 4:17.

Israel is resurrected to mortal life for the coming age, or millenium [Dn 12:13], after which they shall be changed like us to inhabit the new earth.

We will have already obtained the new humanity at our out-resurrection into the heavens.
---Phil on 11/16/12


The last information I read on the petitions, said that now all 50 states have a petition with signitures. Anyone here know anything about that? If this is true, what do you think will happen? Do you think our government will listen to us...THE PEOPLE?
---Reba on 11/16/12


Bro.Mark Amen! We are for the lord JESUS! King of kings" bless his holy name.amen.



.
---ELENA on 11/14/12


What are your thoughts on the different states secession petitions? Are they right in wanting to separate?
---Reba on 11/13/12

This is a political ploy to get a few votes. They know that is cannot and will not happen
---francis on 11/14/12


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Phil, when you said,

"This is the only valid government for men. All others have and will continue to fail. The outcome has been pre-determined."

You are right on only one thing, The outcome has already been predetermined. The only problem is you don't know yourself how it was predetermined. Only God knows how it comes about. For it's God who influences His children to act in ways that determines the outcome. When people do not care about what happens around them and just want to be un active, nothing is accomplished. God does not have to put your shoes on, you have to do it yourself. We put our faith in God and work for the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 11/14/12


To my knowledge these petitions do not represent the states and their leaders, but are produced by a little-known group called "We the People" or something like this. And how many signatures do they need in order to get recognition of their petition? I have read they need 20,000. This is not as many as a number of states have for voters . . . possibly not even close to a "minority" number, compared to total voters, for example, in a state like Texas. Not to mention . . . each person signing is a unique person, each maybe with different reasons and motives. One might sign in order to spite President Obama, another in order to complain though one might never dare actually secede. Each can speak for oneself (c:
---willie_c: on 11/14/12


You err, knowing neither the scriptures nor the power of God.

\\1C 15:40 and there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies, but one is the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly...\\

This is talking about astronomical
bodies, not physical beings.

\\1C 15:51 . Behold, I shew you a secret, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. \\

This is the one and single Resurrection of the Dead when Jesus returns. There is no secret rapture of the Church. Those looking for it will be the first to fall down and worship Antichrist.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/14/12


Where did you get this idea? Jesus said that His Kingdom was NOT of this world.
---Cluny on 11/13/12

1C 15:40 and there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies, but one is the glory of the heavenly, and another that of the earthly...

and, according as we did bear the image of the earthy, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly.

1C 15:51 . Behold, I shew you a secret, We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.

We will meet the Lord in clouds, not on the earth. Our "out-resurrection" [exanastasin] takes place before Israel.

Israel's dead are raised after He returns to earth, not before, and not in clouds.

The Kingdom on earth is Jewish. No Gentiles take part in it.
---Phil on 11/14/12


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Where did you get this idea? Jesus said that His Kingdom was NOT of this world.
---Cluny on 11/13/12

God's Kingdom is the entire universe, physical and spiritual.

His Son's Kingdom is not of the present system [G2889 kosmos], not "world". The translation you use is incorrect.

World [KJV] is inaccurate, as most students realize. Without this understanding, error is bound to surface.

1C 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?

1C 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

A spiritual body is needed to judge spiritual beings.
---Phil on 11/14/12


\\Cosmos is a "system of things" not just the planet!\\

"Kosmos" is not the Greek word used in this verse. Try again.

\\Why would anyone assume that "My Kingdom is not of this world" means our terra firma?\\

The real question is why do you assume it doesn't?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/13/12


Cluny, How do you diferenciate between "worlds" cosmos and planet earth?
Cosmos is a "system of things" not just the planet!
There's the sports world. entertainment world,political world etc. etc.
How do you define "worldly?"
Why would anyone assume that "My Kingdom is not of this world" means our terra firma?
---1st_cliff on 11/13/12


\\They will rule with Him judging messengers [angels, KJV], after He sets up His Kingdom on earth. \\

Where did you get this idea? Jesus said that His Kingdom was NOT of this world.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/13/12


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It'd be nice to have peace & everyone happy.....,bicker,bicker bicker...., that's it, I'm moving to Mars:-)
---Reba on 11/13/12


These are not entire states petitioning to secede, but individual citizens living in those states.

Little should come from this effort.
---Trish on 11/13/12


you american are such spoiled brats. the people of other countries endured dictatorship for more that 8 years...many were tortured, imprisoned but you are complaining about taxes without representation. what a wuss
---mike on 11/13/12


There is One with the right to rule. He is forming a body as His complement in the heavens. They will rule with Him judging messengers [angels, KJV], after He sets up His Kingdom on earth.

This is the only valid government for men. All others have and will continue to fail. The outcome has been pre-determined.

Israel and its people will rule on earth.

Believers who participate in the world systems are under a delusion that hope resides in men. It does not.

Our citizenship is celestial
Eph 2:19

Our orders are to submit, not resist, authorities on earth Ro 13:1

Saints participating in the political process do not apprehend the plan of God.
Their hope is outside of Christ.
---Phil on 11/13/12


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The National Debt is now approximately 16 TRILLION.

The interest for that debt is increasing the principle amount of the debt by approximately 100 million a week.

Only crazy people who volunteer to help pay off the National Debt will not want to secede.

All FEDERAL CITIZENS are responsible to help pay the National Debt.
---more_excellent_way on 11/13/12


The Civil War was about this very issue, and the outcome determined that the states could NOT secede.

BTW, secession was an idea first broached in Yankee land about 50 years before the CW.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/13/12


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