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Child Picks Own Church

When would fellow Christians say that a 'child' is old enough to make up their own mind about continuing to attend church with parents, move to another church with friends or cease attending church altogether? When should parents keep out of their children's decision making - in your opinion?

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 ---Rita_H on 11/16/12
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J_Marc:

You said: Sadly, ALL churches, fellowships, & congreations have reached the apostacy!

So, how do you worship? If you worship alone, Jesus isn't there, because he said he would be there whenever 2 or 3 are gathered together in his name. But if you worship with others, that is, by definition, a fellowship, and thus, by your own words, apostate. So what's a true Christian supposed to do?
---StrongAxe on 12/3/12


Sadly, ALL churches, fellowships, & congreations have reached the apostacy! The falling away that was prophesied is occuring,the lawless one,the man of sin has been revealed!2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Many have "asked Jesus into their hearts" and keep the sin in their business must have another(anti)christ living there that calls himself God!
---J_Marc on 12/3/12


---Cluny on 12/2/12
Mecca, Jerusalem and whose capital it is is not part of
SDA doctrine

Also I do not see any examples from the revelation
SEMINARS

but start a new blog if you want to discus that
---francis on 12/3/12


\\I want a direct quote from a reliable source\\

Apparently your REVELATION SEMINARS (which I attended) of the 1980s are not a reliable source.

I also recall an SDA lecturer in the 70's stand and say that Jerusalem was the Moslem Mecca. Every other source I've seen says Mecca is the Moslem Mecca.

Notice that you cannot deny what I say. You can only call names.

Keep on blessing me.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/2/12


I know we don't agree doctrinally, but I appreciate your loyalty and steadfastness to Christ and your beliefs.

Lord bless you.
---trey on 12/1/12
thanks,
---francis on 12/1/12




James, to answer your question:
Ro10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Lu24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

I appreciate the zeal francis displays. Without the help of Christ man has no understanding. Some he gives much understanding, some he gives some understanding and some he doesn't act upon.
---trey on 12/2/12


In other words, SDAs do not believe in the REAL Jesus.
---Cluny on 12/1/12

you sound like an old bitter man

You just say whatever comes out of your mouth until your nurse puts some pudding in your mouth

Be a man, post something that shows SDA do not believe in the real Jesus. Support your claim with evidence

Do not give a third party quote. I do not want to hear that someone said ellen white of SDA says

I want a direct quote from a reliable source

Here are a few reliable sources
Steps to Christ
27 fundermental beliefs
SDA church manual
Amazing facts bible studies
---francis on 12/2/12


\\I know we don't agree doctrinally, but I appreciate your loyalty and steadfastness to Christ and your beliefs.\\

Why do you say that, trey?

James White and other founders of the SDA were Arians. Their Christology is STILL adoptionionist, as their REVELATION SEMINARS demonstrate.

Ini other words, SDAs do not believe in the REAL Jesus.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/1/12


Notice again that francis cannot actually answer my questions, but can only call names.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/1/12
You ask the same questions over and over

I have answer the question completely in another blog

What you may want to do, if reurn to the blog and ask me to clarify any answer which you di dnot understand, stp asing the same queations.

why keep starting new blogs about the same things?

so again blah blah black sheep, have ye any new wool, or are we gonna go through the same wool again?
---francis on 12/1/12


francis, I agree with your blog on 11/30/2012. You made some very good points!

I know we don't agree doctrinally, but I appreciate your loyalty and steadfastness to Christ and your beliefs.

Lord bless you.
---trey on 12/1/12




Notice again that francis cannot actually answer my questions, but can only call names.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/1/12


SDA and other fringe sectarians might make a distinction between the "law of God" and the "law of Moses," but the Bible does not.
---Cluny on 11/30/12

This has been completely answered in a blog called:
Law Of God Versus Moses

Is there any difference between what the Bible refers to as the law of God (Romans 7:22,25) and the law of Moses (Acts 15:5)?
---lee1538 on 10/24/11

blah blah black sheep, have you any NEW wool?
---francis on 12/1/12


SDA and other fringe sectarians might make a distinction between the "law of God" and the "law of Moses," but the Bible does not.

It says that they are the same.

"Remember the law of Moses My servant...." Malachi 4:4

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/30/12


\\---Cluny on 11/30/12
start a new blog if you want to go down that road
---francis on 11/30/12\\

In other words, you can't answer the questions I'm asking.

I recognize deflection when I see it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/30/12


we should not take our salvation for granted.
Every single denomination has somewhere in their building doctrinal statements which they believe in.

If you are considering two or more denominations as the the place for you and your family to worship, here i my suggestion:

Go to the pastor, ask him to give you a copy of their doctrinal beliefs. Read them compare them to the bible OT and NT

Do not consider anything to be a small issue. Lot's wife lost her life for looking back, Aaron's two sons lost their life for making fire the wrong way
---francis on 11/30/12


---Cluny on 11/30/12
start a new blog if you want to go down that road
---francis on 11/30/12


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\\and i am leaning this way) Do not understand the difference between THE LAW OF MOSES and THE LAW OF GOD,\\

If the Law of God is merely the Decalogue, as you have frequently said, where does it command abstaining from pork?

Where does the Decalogue say killing unborn babies is a woman's choice?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/30/12


---Cluny on 11/29/12
Your church
1: Does not keep the sabbath,
2: allows people to eat any unclean meat
3: makes graven images, places them in the church building, and bows down to them
4: Violates many of God's laws

Seems to me that eaither A: you are confused about who you are and what you are supposed to believe OR B:( and i am leaning this way) Do not understand the difference between THE LAW OF MOSES and THE LAW OF GOD, and do not understand what Jesus did on the cross and how he "abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances," Ephesians 2:15

If you wish to talk about any of these start a new blog
---francis on 11/30/12


SDAs, themselves however, do NOT live by every word of God.

They pick and choose which of the Sabbaths they observe.

They make a big deal over not eating pork--though this is NOT in the Decalogue--but will not sleep in separate beds from their spouses during menstruation (which God likewise commanded, though it's not in the Decalogue).

They light fires on the Sabbath, though God's word also forbade that.

And so it goes.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/29/12


Francis, I think that I would almost be afraid to eat and drink and wear modern clothing if I needed to be aware of every tiny detail and observe it 100% literally to be sure that my salvation is real.
---Rita_H on 11/29/12
Proverbs 30:5 EVERY WORD of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Deuteronomy 8:3 that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Luke 4:4 It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD of God
---francis on 11/29/12


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Francis, I think that I would almost be afraid to eat and drink and wear modern clothing if I needed to be aware of every tiny detail and observe it 100% literally to be sure that my salvation is real.

It is to be hoped that there are no tiny errors in your own belief system and, if there are, you are in great trouble.

I will not respond to any more of your offensive comments.
---Rita_H on 11/29/12


Differences regarding baptism and other small issues don't make my salvation (or theirs) any less genuine.
---Rita_H on 11/28/12
LIST OF SMALL BIBLE ISSUES:

Genesis 19:17 Escape for thy life, look not behind thee, Genesis 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

Numbers 3:4 And Nadab and Abihu died before the LORD, when they offered strange fire before the LORD,

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?


No command of God is a small issue. WHo determined that any command is a small issue you or God?
---francis on 11/28/12


In the small town where I live in the U.K. we have one Methodist Church, one Congregational, one Baptist, two Free evangelical missions. I could worship comfortably in any of them. These churches have shared fellowship occasionally.

Differences regarding baptism and other small issues don't make my salvation (or theirs) any less genuine.

There is also a Presbyterian, a Roman Catholic, an Anglican church and two Pentecostal churches.
---Rita_H on 11/28/12


Here are a few tips:
1: Sit your children and discuss the bible, doctrine by doctrine

2: LISTEN to what they have to say, why the reject your beliefs in favour of other beliefs

3: Having established what you and they believe: Acts 17:11 search the scriptures( OT WRITINGS) daily, whether those things were so.

4: Base your beliefs on this:
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

This means that all doctrines must hold true in the OT( YESTERDAY) as well as the NT( TODAY). If it does not hold true for both OT and NT then Jesus is not the same yesterday today and forever, and strange and diverse doctrines are allowed
---francis on 11/27/12


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I was wondering how families cope with teenagers who are wanting to do things without their parents.
---Rita_H on 11/25/12
Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

It is only when we are not convinced that our doctrine is pure and true that we allow our children to find their own spiritual paths

Genesis 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised

These children did not have a choice, they were raised in the admonition of God from day one

POINT: If you do not abide by God commandments under MY ROOF, then get your own roof!!!
---francis on 11/26/12


Sis. Rita, we have the same problems. Many over 18 still live at home for the same reasons. I believe the husband or father has been given the authority over his family by God. He is to love them as Christ loved the Church, but sometimes we love our children when we let them go. I don't have any of my children living at home. But if one needed a place to stay, my home is open. But while they are here, they are under my authority. When they leave they are on their own. We cannot change our children once grown, how they think, feel, and believe, only God can do that. Many times there is fights in the family when someone tries to change the other.
We are responsible for ourselves. I would be responsible if I let things go haywire in my home.
---Mark_V. on 11/26/12


Mark V Things are possibly very different in U.K. from the way they are in U.S.

Here it is very usual indeed for 'children' to still be living with parents when in their 30s. Jobs are hard to get and houses are very expensive whilst renting one is beyond the means of many.

I still refer to my 33 to 43 year olds as my 'children' but they are not so in the sense that I can dictate what they do with their lives any more even when under my roof.

My question was not actually about my own family though. I was wondering how families cope with teenagers who are wanting to do things without their parents.
---Rita_H on 11/25/12


sis Rita, in my opinion when the child leaves the house. Otherwise he is under the parents rule. There will come a time when they want to do what they want, that time better be when they are old enough to move out. For anything they do outside the house, the parents are responsible for liability so long as they live in our house. If they are in their teens and don't want to go to church, don't force them. If they want to go to another church, don't let them. God made the husband responsible for his home.
---Mark_V. on 11/24/12


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And as I've said lots of times before, it is clear from the context of Rev. 20 that this reign takes place in HEAVEN, and not on earth.

And this after two places where the Bible warns us NOT to take 1000 years as earthly human years.

So, you're wrong again, Phil.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/23/12


Hehehe! :D I love your answer Francis--and I agree! :D
---Mary on 11/23/12


Child Picks Own Church? the only think a child should pick is his nose and her scabs
---francis on 11/22/12


Who's right, Phil? You or the Bible?
---Cluny on 11/21/12
Re 20:6 ...but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Christ, the High Priest over Israel, will have a royal priesthood, a holy nation, that will go forth to the nations, under His authority, to minister healing and blessings to those outside the Jerusalem.

Those of the body of Christ have no priest. They have direct access to the Father's throne as adopted sons through Christ's faith.

During His thousand year reign on earth, priests will be needed to reconcile the nations and accept the gentile offerings. 1Pt 2:9 Re 21:24 They will be Jewish.
---Phil on 11/22/12


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Yesterday I posted two parts but only one appeared here. I went on to say that the differences in different denominations do not save or unsave. They must preach Christ crucified. Differences in baptisms, taking the bread and wine, whether or not women cover their heads etc. will never save. Only the blood of Christ will do that. We've either accepted that gift with thanks or we have not. The name above our church door does nothing for us.
---andreea on 11/22/12


\\ the Jew as a mediator between God and men. \\

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Who's right, Phil? You or the Bible?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/21/12


---J_Marc on 11/21/12

Peter's ministry, and that of the other eleven apostles of the Lord, carried on the teachings they received of Him. Ac 1:1-6

If you are versed, it is one of repentance, baptism, and infilling of the Spirit for the healing of the nations, reconciling the earth. Gentile converts were included.

It from the Jew, to the gentiles, with the Jew as a mediator between God and men. They are the priests, kings and rulers over the nations. This has not changed with their refusal.

Paul's gospel is one wherein all - IN SPIRIT - are on equal footing in God's kingdom. The Jew has no ascendency over the Gentile in it. It is a new creation.
---Phil on 11/21/12


---Scott1 on 11/21/12

The Kingdom evangel will find fulfillment when Christ returns to Olivet, and the Twelve are seated on their thrones [Mt 19:28, Lk 22:30]. At that time, all will be required to keep the Law set forth in Matthew 5-7.

The Gospel of John and the Lord and the Twelve was one of law-keeping and works. It contains no mention of justification through faith, or the body of Christ.

It is a restoration of Israel as God's elect over the earth [Ac 1:6] and the nations, according to promise Ex 19:5-6

Paul alone has truth for us for today. It is towards the new heaven and earth, beyond the thousand year reign, wherein God dwells among men. 1C 15:28 Re 21:3
---Phil on 11/21/12


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A person is saved when they accept Christ as Saviour, when they know and understand that when Christ died he took away the sin of the world.
---andreea on 11/21/12

There is truth to what you say.

1C 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scripture.

These are all that are the requirements for salvation. There is no mention of any other requirements.
---Phil on 11/21/12


Phil, God has spoken to us outside of Paul's letters. The Truth can only be found in the Words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitness disciples who were led by the Holy Spirit. John 14:26.

The plan was always for Israel to lead the Gentiles to God. Read Matt 28:19-20. The disciples were Jews who were told to go to all Nations (Gentiles) so unless you can show scripture other than Paul's letters, God never changed that plan.

Here is what Jesus said about the grafting in of branches, nothing. He told us to abide in Him and that any branch that did not abide in Him would wither, be gathered and cast into the fire to be burned up. John 15:4-6. No adoption, no grafting in here.
---barb on 11/21/12


PETER gave truth to the gentiles first!Acts 10:44-45 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with PETER, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

//If you remove Paul's writings from the Bible, you will not find any Gentiles in it. God has not spoken to us outside of Paul's letters. The Lord's disciples have no truth for us, only Paul, God's minister to the Gentiles, has the truth for today.//?
---J_Marc on 11/21/12


//All scripture is from God. Instruction, reproof, doctrine are there. But Paul alone is our Apostle.
---Phil on 11/21/12 //
Your post is such a blessing to read. No argument, no degrading, just truth.
---michael_e on 11/21/12


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---barb on 11/20/12

I understand your dismay. Correct partitioning of the word [2Ti 2:15] is not taught, and Kingdom Theology has many proponents.

The Scriptures originally were to a people, the Jews.
The entire "Old Testament" is about the Jews.

We are unnatural branches grafted in because of their stubbornness, and God's mercy.

If you remove Paul's writings from the Bible, you will not find any Gentiles in it. God has not spoken to us outside of Paul's letters. The Lord's disciples have no truth for us, only Paul, God's minister to the Gentiles, has the truth for today.

All scripture is from God. Instruction, reproof, doctrine are there. But Paul alone is our Apostle.
---Phil on 11/21/12


A person is saved when they accept Christ as Saviour, when they know and understand that when Christ died he took away the sin of the world. Those who accept that as being true, repent and thank Him for his gift are truly saved. At this point in their lives many will not even belong to a church so are not indoctinated with those 'extras' which some here seem to think are involved in making us a Christian.

see my second part
---andreea on 11/21/12


//The entire focus of Galatians is to show the superiority of Paul's message over that of the Jews in Jerusalem, the Lord's disciples.//

No Phil The Judazers (main false prophets in Gal.) wanted the followers of Moses and Jesus to be superior to just the Jesus only followers, because they wanted power and the hardship that it takes to follow the law. Paul's argument is that they are equal and Moses does not apply, it neither helps nor hurts christian lifestyle. Even Paul said in Romans to a Jew I am a Jew to a gentile I am a gentile. Meaning if he needs to follow the law to win someone to Christ he follows the law if not he does not.
---Scott1 on 11/21/12


//The entire focus of Galatians is to show the "superiority"of Paul's message -- the Lord's disciples.//
Galations 1:6-8 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.


//Creeds and traditions will bind a person from the evidence.// AMEN! Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
---J_Marc on 11/21/12


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Phil, I have to respond to your statement that Paul's message is superior to the hand picked disciples of Jesus. Are you serious? Have you never read Jesus' prayer to His Father where He states that they (the disciples) belonged to God and God gave them to Him (Jesus). John 17:6-9. Do you really think that God gave Jesus inferior apostles?

Not only that but read what Jesus told His disciples in John 15:27. He promised them that they would bear witness of Him because they had been with Him from the beginning. Was Paul with Jesus from the beginning of His ministry? Wasn't that Paul persecuting the followers of Jesus Christ?










---barb on 11/20/12


---J_Marc on 11/19/12

The first two chapters of this letter are devoted to Paul defending his Gospel of grace against the Gospel that the Twelve preached.

If you have an interlinear, you will note that it says, a different well-message, which is not another.

He then continues to even supply who those carriers of that different evangel are, and names their leaders [Ga 2:9]. After fourteen years of trouble from them, he finally paid them a litle visit [Ga 2:1]

The entire focus of Galatians is to show the superiority of Paul's message over that of the Jews in Jerusalem, the Lord's disciples.

Creeds and traditions will bind a person from the evidence.
---Phil on 11/20/12


---Rita_H on 11/19/12
Hebrews 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

Rita_H 4 different denomination means 4 diverse and strange doctrines.

now think about it, if two denominations are teaching two different doctrines on the same subject they both cannot be right. the ay both be wrong, one may be right, but both cannot be right.

It is only possibel for 1/4 of you to be under sound doctrine. 3/4 or 4/4 are under false teacehrs

common sense anole will tell you that
4/4 are saying " lord lord" and only 1/4 MAY be doing the will of the father, because you have at least 3 ( possibly 4) diverse and strange doctrines
---francis on 11/19/12


Which Jesus!?? 2nd Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.2nd Corinthians 6:17-18 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
---J_Marc on 11/19/12


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I was so by-foogle one night! The Catholics are so verbally abused and misunderstood. I asked God. "Are there any Catholics saved?" He said, "yes, some"! I just came right-out with it. May I-say one more truth....Jesus Christ did not die at the hands of wicked me in power, and a most torturous death so His people can have religion. And all that being said, one reason He allowed Himself to go to the cross for His chosen people, was so we can have a great personal relationship with the Father through His son. In other-words a personal relationship with God. Creator.
---pat on 11/19/12


"The Gospel of the Circumcision and the uncircumcision are different [Ga 1:6]."Circumcision are not mentioned! Here is the scripture you mentioned, Galations 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Here is another Jesus! 2nd Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.



---J_Marc on 11/19/12


Francis - you are obviously 100% perfect and attend the perfect denomination. I wish you a happy life and hope that you will not be too shell-shocked when you enter Paradise and find there Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Charismatics etc. and so on. ALL having confessed their sins, repented and being saved by the blood of Christ - saved from the punishment due for their SINS - because Jesus took the punishment for us.
---Rita_H on 11/19/12


I know of this man.who works here the complex where I live..he said his mom told him at 12 years.old. 'son you don't have to go church no more if you.don't want' go
Now just 2 months my friends on here CNT pray for him, he got healed from cancer. Still say

he an athiest. Do not believe in God.
---ELENA on 11/18/12


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"JMarc, just what do your verses have to do with Rita_H's question?" They are not MY verses! Here is what the BIBLE says about her question!2nd Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.2nd Corinthians 6:17-18 Wherefore COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
---J_Marc on 11/18/12


"The ability to spout disconnected verses that have nothing to do with the matter at hand is NOT the same thing as giving the Word of God."Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.Psalms 119:104-105 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. i don't type well so i copy & paste what the Holy Spirit needs for me to say!
---J_Marc on 11/18/12


"Now they were instructed concerning you that you teach all the Jews among the nations apostasy from Moses, telling them not to be circumcising their children, nor yet to be walking in the customs."

Paul was considered an "apostate" among the believing Jews of the Lord. It is worthy of note, that they did not teach what Paul taught his followers. The Gospel of the Circumcision and the uncircumcision are different [Ga 1:6]. The Lord's disciple never went to those of the nations with the evangel the Lord gave them.

Apostasy today is based upon departing from the teachings of Paul, and mixing the the Hebrew teachings with his.
---Phil on 11/18/12


Between us, my children and I attend 4 different denominational churches and I'm comfortable with that because we are all SAVED.
---Rita_H on 11/18/12
It does not mean that you are saved at all. It most likely means that do not know the truth of the doctrines of God.
Each of the 4 different denominations teaches a different SET of doctrines.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines

In your family you have 4 divers and strange doctrines, all 4 of them cannot be right

I strongly recommend a book called: THE IMAGE OF GOD IN THIS GENERATION: serving and worshiping an unchanging God. Read it will all members of yoru family
---francis on 11/18/12


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Francis, again I disagree with what you say. I don't believe that there is such a perfect church - one where every aspect of the way the church is run, the way they teach the word of God etc. is absolutely correct.

Between us, my children and I attend 4 different denominational churches and I'm comfortable with that because we are all SAVED.

Being saved by the Grace of God, accepting that my sins are forgiven because of the sacrifice of Jesus is fundamental but teachings about tongues, whether baptism must be by full immersion, tithing etc. are secondary issues and, although important, are not worth falling out with each other over.

Another adult child goes nowhere. Now that is serious.
---Rita_H on 11/18/12


This is the way i see it.

regardless of what denomination you go to, you MUST believe that this is the one and only place in all the world where the truth of the word of God is taught. or else why are you going there)

If you as an adult have a child under your roof who chooses to walk away from what you hold to be truth, and you as an adult have nothing to say about that, it tells me that you have doubts about what you believe, and that you believe that other denominations are also teaching the truth.

Anyone under my roof, who chooses to go to any other denomination is an apostate.

If you cannot say that, then you are in deep spiritual decline
---francis on 11/17/12


Our grown children and our grandchildren know that if they come stay at our house, they will attend church. This is never discussed. They do this out of respect for us. As far as adult visitors, they always want to go to church with us too. And we always walk to church. Of course, we live across the church parking lot from the church.
---KarenD on 11/17/12


Francis, why is it SDA's tell people the must keep what is written in Exodus 20:10,
---Rob on 11/17/12
xodus 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

it is God and NOT the SDA church who commands this. By keeping the sabbath you will be obedient to God not the SDA church.

But my point is this: A man must rule his house well, in the knowledge of God. If you as an adult believe that what you do believe is the truth, then why tolerate your children going into apostasy. If you are sure that what you as an adult believe is true then everything thing else is apostasy.
---francis on 11/17/12


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Cluny - I think I misunderstood you when you said "Afterwards, its the same as with any adult houseguest." I think I took that as meaning exactly the opposite of what you actually meant. My post prior to this one (which isn't showing yet) was critical of your words. I apologise. I must slow down a little and not respond so quickly!!
---Rita_H on 11/17/12


Francis, why is it SDA's tell people the must keep what is written in Exodus 20:10, when SDA's don't keep it themselves because it doesn't appy to SDA organizations like SDA Churches, Schools, Hospitals, etc?

Sounds like SDA's are just like the Pharisees
---Rob on 11/17/12


having relationship with the creator should be a deeply personal choice. I believe raising your child up in Gods way is a parents responsibility, at some point reigns of parental control must be loosened as child enters into their teenage years. Nothing worse than a controlling parent who lets their precious child loose on the world at 18 leaving society a new adult who is not equipped to make decisions, or a rebellious newly minted adult who feels need to overly express themselves due to never-ending restraints parents forced upon them. At 15yo, 3 years away from being a legal adult, simple decisions like this should be left to the child. as a parent you cannot make up for what you didn't teach in their younger years!
---Follower_of_Christ on 11/17/12


\\OK! This is what God is giving to me on this. "Forcing a child to go to church could lead to rebellion".
---pat on 11/17/12\\

God is not giving you that, pat.

Does forcing a child to go to school lead to rebellion?

How about forcing a child to go to bed, or take a bath, or eat his vegetables?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/17/12


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Modern "church" is typically a group of persons sharing the same beliefs, and commitment to one another to uphold the traditions taught them. It has great social and psychological benefits.

If your child is being called out from the world, into a place of sonship, I would do everything possible to promote that, even if it means separating and going another route.

It cannot be known the plan of God for an individual. It can only be found through experience. Guide that, foster it, and do not assume you know. God will become All in all [1C 15:28], that is His goal.

Abraham had to leave Chaldea and his family to know.
---Phil on 11/17/12


My protestations of my 16 year-old daughter's choices concerning faith matters has often proven incorrect. Allowing her the freedom to find her own place with God has enlivened her convictions by going through things on her own.

There is no end to the variety of expression God intends to show the universe through us. We are all different, and apprehend God in our own peculiar way, shining forth His glory as He has determined for us.

If our intent is to mold them in our own image and sometimes mistaken knowledge of our Father, we will assuredly cause hindrance and not advancement for our children.
---Phil on 11/17/12


Cluny "If I was not allowed to go to church without my parents, I never would have gone at all because they didn't go, but I went by myself from the time I was 11." I am certain that you know that I was not referring to such a situation at all.

As for adult house guests - I wasn't asking about them either and no way would I insist that they go to church with me BUT I would give them an invitation and would not stay home with them if they declined.
---Rita_H on 11/17/12


I am rather surprised by the answers received so far especially the one from Francis.

Maybe things are very different in U.S from the way they are here in U.K. where many 'children' still live at home when they are in their late 30s. In my own case my 'children' left home aged 28, 29, 38 and there is a 33 year old not moved out.

I don't think the 'you still live under my roof' rule can apply in all circumstances.

When I asked the question I was personally thinking of the age they can vote (18) as being, probably, the latest we can 'rule' them.
---Rita_H on 11/17/12


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I would say it is good to make choices as a family, because we are family in Jesus.

In the United States, we can see what is happening to people, their marriages, and their personalities because of independence.

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3) Feed good example to our children.

"submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21) Learn to do things as family, with mutual trust and mutual depending . . . "in the fear of God" > how our Father has us learning how to do this in His love (Romans 5:5).
---willie_c: on 11/17/12


OK! This is what God is giving to me on this. "Forcing a child to go to church could lead to rebellion".
---pat on 11/17/12


JMarc, just what do your verses have to do with Rita_H's question?

The ability to spout disconnected verses that have nothing to do with the matter at hand is NOT the same thing as giving the Word of God.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/16/12


My children attended church with us until they left for college. When they came home on breaks, they often worked late hours at the restaurant for my brother, so they were permitted to choose for themselves.
---Trish on 11/16/12


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1st Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.2nd Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.2nd Corinthians 6:17-18 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing, and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
---J_Marc on 11/16/12


When should parents keep out of their children's decision making - in your opinion?
---Rita_H on 11/16/12

Forget human being opinion
see what God says:

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Exodus 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor THY SON, nor THY DAUGHTER thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

AS LONG AS THEY ARE UNDER YOUR ROOF, THEY LIVE BY YOUR RULES
---francis on 11/16/12


Difficult question.

If I was not allowed to go to church without my parents, I never would have gone at all because they didn't go, but I went by myself from the time I was 11.

I would say that as long as one's offspring is living under your roof and not supporting themselves, they go with you, at least on Sunday morning.

Afterwards, its the same as with any adult houseguest.

How does that sound?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/16/12


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