Hi Phil, wow I didn't know that could happen to a man, I'm sorry. Chauvenism stinks no matter who it's against. God bless :)
---Mary on 12/10/12|
The precedent is set in 1 Cor. 2:9. The point is to dress in modest apparel that doesn't distract from worship & cause onlookers to sin. Now, having said that, I'm absolutely sure it's okay for women to wear women pants that are properly fitted to their physique so that June isn't busting out all over. :) If you attend a church where pants aren't considered the proper attire & you want to continue going there, then you should "dress" so as not to be a stumbling block (an offense) to weaker brothers & sisters. If you can't do that, then find a church that isn't legalistic in that area.
Also, modest (non-revealing & /or distracting) dress standards should apply to men as well, for the same exact reason...
---Leon on 12/9/12|
I once left a church due to SEVERE chauvenism,
---Mary on 12/6/12
Interesting... I have experienced the same, even as a man.
Christendom, as a whole, has not left minorhood behind. There are squabbles, infightings and dissentions among them all.
Hence the need of overseers. Men are contentious, more so than women, who tend towards conciliation.
A strong presence is needed during conflicts, and some truths cannot be compromised. Conciliation may be inappropriate.
As long as apostasy from Paul's teachings remains, is as long as there will be the need of "chauvinists" to rule in the body.
---Phil on 12/9/12|
Mary: The homeless ministry involves people from many churches, with four different churches serving as host sites different months from December through March. Each host church takes responsibility for providing a hot meal for the guests to eat after they arrive at the site, and get their bedding. Volunteers from my church provided complete meals for all of the guests and the volunteers the nights that Code Blue was called.
I'm going to miss my church when I move to Michigan. The church I'll be attending is great, but I don't think they have the kind of burden for the poor that my church here does.
---Trish on 12/8/12|
Wow Trish your church does sound awesome! And a homeless ministry is soooo valuable, especially during these cold months, God bless all you guys do, you also Karen. :)
---Mary on 12/8/12|
Mary: My church is led by a group of male elders, as is described in Scripture. We also have a women's ministry, with mentoring and Bible studies done by women. We have men and women in our children's ministries, including our nursery. We have women teaching from cradle through high school, in addition to the two women's Bible studies. Women also serve in our food pantries. As for the kitchen, one of our elders cooks as much as the women in our church. Also, men and women work in the homeless ministry for the four coldest months of the year.
---Trish on 12/8/12|
Mary...I am happy because God ordained man to be the head of the woman. So many churches have few men and lots of women. The women in our church have lots of duties besides the kitchen and babysitting. Many of them are teachers and part of our praise and worship teams.
---KarenD on 12/7/12|
Hi, why does it make you so happy to have ONLY men running your church and not sharing with the women? What is the purpose of the women in your church besides kitchen or baby-sitting duties? At least I know in Heaven we will be equals in value and worth, men no better or special than us.
---Mary on 12/7/12|
Mary...I am very happy that our church has a large leadership of men instead of the women running the church. Jesus will be running the church when HE returns. Are you gonna have trouble submitting to HIM?
---KarenD on 12/7/12|
I once left a church due to SEVERE chauvenism, always wanted to write the minister and tell him how deeply they hurt me but never had the courage. Wish I had, it might have made him think--or maybe not. :)
---Mary on 12/6/12|
Hello!sis.RitaH.thankyou so very much ! love your english.I am very glad you are here.Well, a wonderfull opportunity for me to correspond with someone from England.have friends went to visit to England.They like it. Wow! Very wonderfull all the church doing for those in need. I am praying to find a church still...breast cancer has it's problems, but that would be suitable also for me be where older people are believe I would be more comfortable.I am in prayer.smiles! I refuse to let this take over! It can NOT take away my love for God or my joy! Most of my hair fell out again.. thank God I am alive! Love goes out to you.. Love of JESUS ! Getting ready.piano practice! Praise time! :)
---ELENA on 12/5/12|
Elena, thank you. I no longer attend either of the churches I mentioned previously as I moved house 14 months ago. I now attend a Baptist church with members aged between 40 and over 86 with just one child.
We have a secular Youth Club attended by about 30 deprived youngsters from the vicinity of the church. Public funding for this dictates that it must not be 'based on religion' so it isn't BUT we are 'inventive' to put this as carefully as I can.
Christmas is almost here and they all know why WE celebrate this and what we believe. We give honest answers to questions and that opens doors.
We use opportunities as they are given to us whilst adhering to the rules. Without the funding there would be nothing for them here.
---Rita_H on 12/5/12|
Sis.RitaH. those stories( the experiences) with the new people who come into your church, sound wonderfull! Thankyou.I am sometimes forget English now! Smile.Really exciting your church! God bless you.
---ELENA on 12/3/12|
We have seen people come to church in all kinds of dress. Jesus has worked in many of their lives despite their clothing.
---KarenD on 12/3/12|
Thank you Phil. Another very similar example occurred in the church I attended prior to the one I mentioned below. A widowed father and his 5 children joined our church after fleeing persecution. Our members provided many of their needs including second hand clothes. Unbelievably some criticized the girls for arriving at church in jeans.
One person had the courage to ask "What do you prefer - the girls attending in jeans or the girls not attending at all until they can afford dresses?"
The complaints ceased after that.
---Rita_H on 12/3/12|
---Rita_H on 12/1/12
What a refreshing story. Thank you Rita.
---Phil on 12/1/12|
Jesus would not have turned away the people which some churches turned away.
I was in a church where some lads walked in off the street - mid-service. They were eating chips (fries I think you call them). They sat in the back row and stayed for the remainder of the service and the preacher chatted with them.
Some thought that they should have been turned away because they 'were disrespectful'.
Respect doesn't come into the equation when you don't understand the rules anyway.
Had they been turned away those boys would probably have gone off and started trouble somewhere and we'd have never been blessed with their company again.
---Rita_H on 12/1/12|
Sisters, let me tell you.I remember a time when dying your.hair.or wear a wig in spanish culture could get you on discipline for 4 to 6 months! Things have changed some of those old ways now they dress like they going to the club".. lots bling bling
Thank God for he the same! Love of JESUS! thankyou KarenD.
---ELENA on 11/30/12|
I hope none would be that self righteous but I know one that wouldn't let a mother pick up her daughter if she had pants on. wow, what a shame. God doesn't care if I wear jeans as long as I don't try to look like a man.
---shira4368 on 11/30/12|
Scott1...You must have misread my post. The dress code is only for those playing instruments or singing on the platform. We don't turn away anyone because of how they are dressed for church.
---KarenD on 11/30/12|
---KarenD on 11/30/12
Karen can I press?
What IF it is a first time guest, say a single mom just got off the 3rd shift after working two jobs and does not have a dress (or that piece of specific piece of clothing).
I have heard of many pastors stopping the guest at the door and turning them away from Christ. That just sucks. Could be a hat, earring on a guy, etc.
---Scott1 on 11/30/12|
Elena...Our church is on the Mexican border, so I understand your comments about the culture. I am the first pastor's wife who has worn slacks for some of the services. I wear a dress on Sunday morning, but not always on Sunday night. I usually wear slacks on Wednesday night. We do have a dress code for those ministering on the platform. Women must wear dresses on Sunday morning, but can wear slacks the other two services. One young Mexican woman came to play and sing in shorts. I asked her to change and she did. She said, "I thought these were alright because they are dress shorts." I said, "In the pentecostal world, there is no such thing as dress shorts." LOL
---KarenD on 11/30/12|
Hi KarenD, wow that was quite a thing for that minister to say, simply because you dyed your hair! Since my hair has grown back, I love the softness of it so I won't dye it but I used to color like crazy lol! :D God bless, Mary
---Mary on 11/30/12|
Modest dress applies to both sexes. While the detail will vary from place to place, occasion to occasion, and even among different cultures and eras, the principle is still the same.
As one person defined modesty, "Be pleasant to look at and attractive without being an attraction. Don't draw attention to yourself by your dress."
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/29/12|
Hi,sis.RitaH. well, here in the spanish speaking community still some pentecostal or holliness churches No pants! Some are lax on other things though very strange to me.They have couples who they know not married but they keep that almighty $ coming in! Nothing said.
Race is an issue here so that why I have not still been out/ besides my condition.prayer & fast, reading the word. It is really.hard here to find a church.God knows. He in control.I have been studying about apostate churches.
The falling away from God' way...
---ELENA on 11/29/12|
Many churches in the apostolic faith (UPC for instance) are extremely legalistic. They will usually not make anyone leave that is not dressed by their rules. But they will make it plain how that person should dress next time they come to their church. I once visited an apostolic church when a friend passed away. The pastor introduced me and said, "She loves the Lord, but doesn't believe the same way we do." I met all their dress requirements, but I dyed my hair back then.
---KarenD on 11/29/12|
In genuine 'DIVINE' holiness (the DIVINE kind of "spirituality"), there shall be no prohibitive discrimination based on GENDER, for we are all spirits that live inside the body that hung on the cross. Spirit beings that reside inside Jesus have no gender ("neither male nor female") and we all must accept each other spiritually without any prohibitive discrimination (there should be no rules about dress codes, preferences, or habits).
Galatians 3:28 "neither male nor female".
John 2:19 "three days", verse 21 "He was speaking of the temple of His body".
Take great care in how you react to and treat others...John 15:5 "He who abides in me and I IN HIM....".
---more_excellent_way on 11/29/12|
Every religious sect needs rules to function according to its overlords. Dissention produces conflict, and conflict requires confrontation. This is to be avoided.
A dress code is merely a tool to ensure conformity. To question it, or go against it will reveal the one who is not fully committed to the rules.
It is about control by men over the body of Christ, and not holding on to the Head.
The template for this type of organization is found among the Jewish ecclesias of the Lord.
Throughout the thousand year reign, the rules will be tougher [Matt 5-7], as the Twelve apostles rule over the Jews in the Kingdom [Mt 19:28].
---Phil on 11/29/12|
This question is a slipperly slope for us believers.
I attend a "mega" church and see every style of dress you can imagine, including shorts, tank tops, and flip-flops.
What is frustrating for alot of us is provocative dress by women, or even worse, by young girls. I am embarassed when it happens and must confess, I really want to tell the people to leave. But, if you say something to the people they react as if they have been insulted.
Modest dress is always appropriate but being scantily clad has become the norm in a lot of churches.
---Mark_Eaton on 11/29/12|
I don't know if the church still exists, but there was one years ago that my family visited while on vacation. They had a brochure on the literature table that plainly stated that women were to wear skirts or dresses at all times, not just church.
---Trish on 11/29/12|
One time in my parish there was a work day, for special cleaning up for Holy Week. Of course, the women came in pants and jeans.
When it came time for Vespers, some said they felt odd wearing pants for church. I said, "You've spent all day cleaning up God's house. Do you think He's really going to be bothered by your worshipping Him in pants?"
Pants, at least in the USA, are considered perfectly appropriate and modest dress for women for almost any except the most formal occasions.
Now, I cannot speak for social conventions in other countries.
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/29/12|
I couldn't say much more in my ? so will add it here.
I can never understand the argument against women wearing trousers. The oft quoted verse used to justify this doesn't mention trousers because neither gender wore them in those days. Women and men dressed similarly to each other but there would have been a noticeable difference and that difference is still with us because women's trousers are not like men's trousers. We would look ridiculous in each others'. The climate, our jobs and other issues govern what we wear at times.
I always feel sad when someone is turned away from a church (especially when it is done with no sensible or fair discussion).
---Rita_H on 11/29/12|
unfortunatly yes. It is a problem world wide. Not all churches but yes it does happen and not just with women and dresses but also with hats, earrings (on guys), tattoos, pregnacies out wedlock etc. My pastor said it this way "Christianity, the only people group that shoots their wounded." not saying dresses are sinful, but we can make our rules, traditions, methods, etc to be equal with God rules, traditions, methods, that is a sinful act. Gen. Ch3. Eve makes touching the fruit a sin.
---Scott1 on 11/29/12|