John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Only those who obey continuing in Word of God have spiritual understanding that it is God who calls. Unconverted minds are disobedient following false ministers who tell them they bring people to God and by believing this lie they reject John 6:44,65
When people are deceived into a false conversion by another human they cannot obey and will not walk with the Lord, Romans 8:7 John 8:31 John 6:66
The Lord Jesus says you have not chosen me I have chosen you John 15:16,19.
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/19/13|
Follower, we do not bring people to the Lord. The gospel truth that we preach does. It might come in power and the Holy Spirit to some and not to others we don't know, only God knows. What we do know is what our committment is, to preach the Gospel Truth.
God prepares the heart to hear the gospel to all those who will be saved.
"Knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God. For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men were among you for your sake" (1 Thess. 1:5).
---Mark_V. on 2/17/13|
follower, why do you think Jesus told us to be fishers of men. we are to bring them in. you are the one who teaches false doctrine. paul went all over the middle east and won many to Christ. why does God call missionaries?
---shira4368 on 2/16/13|
Follower, there you again, have no Scripture so you use satan again as your defense. Do you not see your fault? You don't want us to answer, because if we do, we find that you are not worthy to be told the truth. If you were worthy, you would be discussing godly matters, not things of the devil. Why is he so high on your list? You brought him up. All we did was oppose your views from Scripture. Now you find it better if we just don't answer. We will answer when we see that someone teaches ourside the essentials of the Christian faith. I have been here over five years, and let me tell you, guys who answer like you have come and gone.
---Mark_V. on 2/14/13|
Mark it truly would be best if neither you or James responded because it is obvious you preach a doctrine of Mark and James preaches a doctrine of James and you both are not converted to The Lord by misusing scripture and introducing a doctrine of devils by claiming you bring people to The Lord when per Word of God it is the Father who calls, also retread my post my use of Satan is scriptural James misuses scripture and makes it a weapon believing he is a god although clearly defending someone here is more important than sharing Gods truth for you
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/13/13|
Follower, four times I heard you mention satan or the devils. All you did was rant and rave and when you had no Scripture you gave your opinion by then using satan and devils for your defense as if they would help you. Don't you see what you are doing? You are so rapped up that it would better for you to not answer, for by your words you will be judge. It is better for you to not answer at all then to sin. I do not agree all the time with James L, but I will never use the devil when I run out of Scripture. He has a right to answer but you want to use satan to stop him from answering. You think the more times you use him, somehow everyone will stop speaking about God.
---Mark_V. on 2/13/13|
oh boo hoo James I'm not scared of you it's why I don't believe any of your slop
I'm not following **YOU** James I follow the Lord when you wrongly accuse it is you who is doing the bidding of Satan!!! **YOU** clearly believes you are god, you know my heart??? LOL when you misquote scripture and make absurd accusations??? I'm quivering will you send to the fictional hell too LOL
Keep on believing you have truth and keep puking out your lies and slander of the Word of God and I'll keep calling you on it!! The Word of Truth is Gods holy word, not the misuse of holy scripture by those like yourself claiming to be a god.
The correct word is GAIN as translated properly from the Greek word as used properly in KJV
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/12/13|
James L, thank you for your answer to the rebuttal of Follower. He made a big thing about the word "gain" which has the same meaning as "win."
"Strong's #2770: kerdaino (pronounced ker-dah'-ee-no) from 2771, to gain (literally or figuratively):--(get) gain, win. Thayer's Greek Lexicon" When a person wins, he gains something, or gets something. In the case of Paul he won many to Christ. Or gain many to Christ.
Follower just wanted to throw a stab at Christianity as most cult members do. Accusing when someone gives them the Truth. That is how they pick and choose words to strip Christ of His deity.
---Mark_V. on 2/11/13|
\\JamesL by changing word gain to win...\\
---Follower_of_assumptions on 2/10/13
At best, that's an ignorant assumption. I believe it's a willful attempt to slander. Of course, that is speculation on my part.
I quoted out of the NASB. Also...
NRSV-so that I might WIN more of them.
NIV-to WIN as many as possible.
ISV-to WIN more people.
ESV-that I might WIN more of them.
Weymouth-WINNING as many converts as possible.
\\Easy to see how the deceived are led by wicked ministers of Satan...\\
---Follower_of_the_accuser on 2/10/13
You ARE a minister of Satan, falsely accusing. You also embrace false doctrine and minister that to the deceived
---James_L on 2/10/13|
JamesL by changing word gain to win in 1 Corinthians 9:19-22 you ignore Gods warning to not add to his word Proverbs 30:6
In 1 Corinthians 9:19-22
For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews, to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law, To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain
Easy to see how the deceived are led by wicked ministers of Satan to believe they win people to the Lord because they malign the Word to suit their doctrine of devils.
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/10/13|
Sis. Shira, we have missionaries, and people preaching the gospel because no one knows who the elect of God are. They are out there waiting to hear the gospel, others are just been born. When a group of people hear the gospel, it will come to some with power and with the Holy Spirit, to the others it will just go in one ear and out the other.
"Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord, "and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed" The others didn't.
"Knowing beloved brethren, your election by God. For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and much assurance... (1 Thess. 1:4,5).
---Mark_V. on 2/10/13|
In Matt 4:19 the Lord is speaking toPeter and Andrew all you have to do is look to Matt 4:18 to understand who the Lord is speaking to.
As for the rest of the verses you quoted not one verse states (or even remotely suggests) we are to tell the world about the Lord Christ Jesus, or to "win" people to the Lord, that is a doctrine of devils it is God who calls those to him.
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
John 6:65 does not say "except it were given unto him by another human being"
false Christianity teaches a doctrine of devils with "winning" people to them, not Lord.
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/9/13|
James L, that was the best answer I have read. You explained that very good. Thanks
---Mark_V. on 2/5/13|
I have a lot of problems in this! Why not just live the life as best you can, since none of us are perfect. Don't mislead people in thinking that God has saved them when indeed He may not have saved them. This is one of my pet-peeves.
---pat on 2/2/13|
For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews, to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law, to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak, I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. (1Cor 9:19-22)
It is not the man by himself that wins anyone. The Holy Spirit is at work convicting, and using men to win other men through the gospel
---James_L on 2/2/13|
follower. then what is fishers of men? why are we challenged to go be a witness? what good is a missionary? we are suppose to tell the world about Jesus Christ. matthew 4:19 is one of the verses. mark 1:17. matthew 5:14. matthew 5:16.
---shira4368 on 2/2/13|
You, or anyone else can never win another human being to the Lord Christ Jesus.
The scriptures do not suggest that any human is calling another human to the Lord.
Holy Scripture states it is God who calls those to HIM, so by suggesting you can win anyone to the Lord you have given people a doctrine of devils and a false conversion to the Lord. remember the Lord said many will say his name on their lips yet they will be none of his, and by an unbiblical idea of "winning" to Lord you are deceived - you are only winning people to you, not the Lord.
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/2/13|
How to appeal to the youth and win them to Christ?
This sounds like an 'Internet Add'
You do not appeal to the youth in general.
Each person is saved....... If you have a gathering yes, you can, but I have yet to meet a person who was saved via a large gathering - some were, but I have not met one
All I know (and most of my Christian friends are adult converts, myself included) met God through the work of their individual friends
---Peter on 1/31/13|
On the surface christians? or to the heart - pick up your cross and follow me christians? Numero Uno, oral teaching described as follows Deuteronomy 11:19
"Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up." Other than substance, entertainment has it's following. Let us entertain you. Another is drop alot of teachings. Without teaching alot of substance, and by superficial christianity, some attract others. Christian ALTERNATIVE events: fun, free food and fellowship. Singspirations have been enjoyable and little exist any more.
---bike on 1/30/13|
Family, thinking also, maybe churches can have like art, sports like baseball, light sports not heavy type sports for the youth? Alot of schools no longer offer sports, gym nor art nor music classes.. state budgets they claim. Have responsable adults of coarse who have experience. good morals. Clean back ground check helpfull. Love of jesus!
---ELENA on 1/30/13|
Ha! Yes! You are right! Bro. Leon. You can' t fool these young people they are not stupid.thank God! Look how if they too, like not alert to " mind games" you got phonies & sicko types who wil play upon their innocence! Thank God. Like I say I know this pastor I mention he keeps them.in groups & his wife really wise woman. They got each other's back.
They seem very respectfull to everyone. No monkey business! God bless you brother. Thankyou.
---ELENA on 12/11/12|
Hello, Pastor from Grace in Action brother very good with young people. very humble & young pastor he bout 29. He keeps them busy doing all kinds of neat activities" from help old people with computer skills, they were study all kinds of art, music , believe they GED classes, reading math. All kinds cooking, a band of older folk who recuperate from vices & Go to the prisons/ nursing homes! win souls for the kingdom! So please remember this brother & his family in prayer( city shut - closed out! Satan work of coarse! Lord Rebuke in JESUS name!)
Grace in Action Missions. I am going try with God help give my 100% plus in JESUS name.
---ELENA on 12/11/12|
How to? Too easy! Live Christlike before them! Earnestly practice what you preach (speak). They can smell a rat (hypocrite) miles away...
---Leon on 12/9/12|
If someones chosen by God He will save them. Lately, everyone I have prayed for has died and gone to hell. A couple months ago while I was praying for someone's salvation, God told me, "I can't and I won't". I go,"Oh well"! I was thinking, What am I suppose to do, now?
---pat on 12/5/12|
My church has a youth ministry where there are a slew of young adults helping every Wednesday evening. They start with a game in the gym, to help the kids let off steam. Then, they move to the sanctuary where they have worship time. After that, they head to the youth ministry's Sunday School room, which is filled with couches and chairs, for the Bible lesson. After that, the girls and women go to their room for discussion of the lesson. Kids invite their unchurched friends from school.
Once a year, they have Boot Camp, which is a paint ball weekend with all sorts of Bible lessons between battles, and lots of kids and their friends come to that. Then, in January, there are two winter retreats, Jr. High and Sr. High.
---Trish on 12/5/12|
I can say my little baptist church does not turn away anyone. they can be black, yellow, pink and even white. I met some very sweet people at a church last night. we had mexicans, black and a few white. when a church gets to big for their britches, they become as dead mens bones. I am baptist but not southern baptist.
---shira4368 on 12/5/12|
Cluny "The Baptist church in which I was raised moved to a fashionable residential section because people of the wrong race were moving in." That is horrendous and so sad to read. I hope that was long ago and that people are now more enlightened.
Scott - I think you missed my point about 'rock concert'. When churches change so drastically they tend to cater JUST for the young and then lose the older people who built up that church. That is what saddens me.
Change is needed but it is, often, wise to do it gradually. If we lose the old and wise who will teach the young?
---Rita_H on 12/5/12|
Kingdom, appeal with the Truth, the gospel of Jesus Christ. Only the Word saves. It comes in power to some but not to all. In (1 Thess. 1:5) Paul speaking to the Church in Thessalonia, believers, he says to them,
" For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake"
To others it does not come in power or the Holy Spirit. Only God knows for what reason it comes to some in power and others not,
"So shall My Word be that goes forth from My mouth, it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please, and shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it" (Isa. 55:11).
---Mark_V. on 12/5/12|
//The Baptist church in which I was raised moved to a fashionable residential section because people of the wrong race were moving in.//
My point exactly, who gets turned away from attending a rock concert. No One (assuming you have a ticket). Who gets turned away from a church - People who do not fit the established christian mold. Tattoos, dirty clothes, hats, smokers, sexual past etc. Jesus hanged out with the wrong race, Samaritians and Tax Collectors. The people least like Jesus hung out with Jesus. The people most like Jesus hated him.
---Scott1 on 12/3/12|
\\And you wonder why 75% of churchs close their doors, are declining, and stagnate. \\
There are other reasons as well. Population shifts is one. Changing the character of a neighborhood is another, for example, from residential to commercial. The Baptist church in which I was raised moved to a fashionable residential section because people of the wrong race were moving in.
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/3/12|
Sadly, ALL churches, fellowships, & congreations have reached the apostacy! The falling away that was prophesied is occuring,the lawless one,the man of sin has been revealed!2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Many have "asked Jesus into their hearts" and keep the sin in their business must have another(anti)christ living there that calls himself God!
---J_Marc on 12/3/12|
there is absolutely nothing you can do or was ever done to 'win' someone to christ.
---aka on 12/3/12|
//Visiting a modern church now it is difficult to tell the difference between a service and a rock concert.//
And you wonder why 75% of churchs close their doors, are declining, and stagnate. Jesus would have hung out in rock concerts. Saintification by separation does not work, see the Pharissees.
---Scott1 on 12/3/12|
Cluny - it was very old fashioned in comparison with the style of preaching/worship/singing and praying that we witness in many churches today.
The last fifty years have seen vast changes in the way churches are organised and how services are held. Many churches don't even look like churches.
Visiting a modern church now it is difficult to tell the difference between a service and a rock concert.
Many now leave those places having been told that they have been saved just because they have recited a few words from a card called The Sinners Prayer.
The word 'Christian' is almost a joke in many circles now.
Note: I say 'many' not 'ALL'.
---Rita_H on 12/2/12|
2Ti 2:19 Howbeit, the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: The Lord knew those who are His, and, Let everyone who is naming the name of the Lord withdraw from injustice.
22 Now youthful desires flee: yet pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace, with all who are invoking the Lord out of a clean heart.
The message of "turn or burn" hardly resonates with youth. Normal people realize it is fiction.
Some are elect and foreknown of God. Some believe by our example. Hunger for God comes from God. It cannot be "won".
Hypocrisy and false piety is a turn off. Dogmatism will rightly cause them to run away.
Foucing on the now, and not the future, also disappoints.
---Phil on 12/1/12|
1. It starts with Christ:
Joh10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
2. They need to be fed:
Joh21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
3. Show them they are loved:
Mt22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
4. Let them know they are vital to the church:
1Co12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body, is it therefore not of the body?
5. It ends with Christ: Heb12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith,
---trey on 12/1/12|
\\ It was through old fashioned preaching/teaching and old fashioned hymns\\
That's MODERN by Orthodox standards.
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/1/12|
The hymns from the 1850s were still as relevant in the 1950s when I was a teenager. It was through old fashioned preaching/teaching and old fashioned hymns that I began to understand what Christ did for me - even through I'd spent 18 years in a church prior to that (having has no teaching whatsoever and not knowing that I needed to be saved. I thought I was heaven bound 'because I was good' !
Today's youth are different, yes, but they lack much which they will not find in modern choruses or some of the books now on offer.
They still need to understand what Christ did for them and why, and be told that they are sinners in need of a Saviour.
---Rita_H on 12/1/12|
example > "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)
This includes leading in how to relate in a Christian relationship > "submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21) mutual submission with mutual trust and mutual depending
And example of this in marriage, including > "Do all things without complaining and disputing," (Philippians 2:14) "Let all that you do be done with love." (1 Corinthians 16:14)
---willie_c: on 12/1/12|
Make Jesus exciting, not compromising, hymns from the 1850's do not work. Just getting butts in seats is not always a bad thing.
Be real and honest. They know more than most adults think. Be practical, face tough issues. Find ways to make them have value in Christ by giving them a purpose, build up the young leaders. Hang out with them on their level, don't be a moron and act like them but be cool, engaged, and wise. Treat them how you want to be treated and thus showing God through you. By the way this works for all people. Tell them why not just NO, NO, no. Tell them what to do, not just do not do. Preach Christ throughout. My church has the largest youth groups in the nation. See Brad Cooper's blog at NewSpring, Anderson.
---Scott1 on 11/30/12|