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Beginnings Of Christmas

Most Americans don't know how Christmas came to be celebrated on December 25th : The Emperor Constantine chose the date because it was winter solstice in the Julian Calendar, the birthday of dying and rising gods like Mithra and Sol.

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 ---Ric on 12/2/12
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\\For Christ spoke, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." Your "christmas christ" is not the Christ.\\

You've made it abundantly clear that you don't believe in the real Jesus, christan.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/9/12


Isa.64:4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.

5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth, for WE HAVE SINNED: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
---J-Marc on 12/9/12


"calling 12.25 Jesus' birthday is adding to the prophecy in Revelation?" aka

And you think that Revelation 22:18,19 is only meant for the book of Revelation and not the entire Word of God?

Then by your account, the OT books should only be meant for the OT and each book be for each book, not to be even taught by the NT apostles and even Jesus Christ. But did they teach from the OT? Most definitely and the author of Revelation even quoted from the OT!

See the folly and foolishness of your heart? By the ways, have you even wondered why those two verses ended where they ended in the entire Bible? And isn't Revelation about the complete plan and will of God of things that has happened and that is to come?
---christan on 12/9/12


calling 12.25 Jesus' birthday is adding to the prophecy in Revelation?
---aka on 12/9/12


"Keep on blessing me and increasing my heavenly treasure, christan." Cluny

From your understandings of Scriptures that you have already written here, I do not take it that you even understand what Matthew 5:44-46 is referring to.

Do not think that just because you believe that christmas is the birth date of Christ, which is not even taught in the Scriptures that you're being "persecuted" for the "faith" you cling to that's in Christ. Clearly, that's not eternal life.

For Christ spoke, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." Your "christmas christ" is not the Christ.
---christan on 12/8/12




"If you don't want to observe special days, that's perfectly well and fine. But it's NOT fine to tell others that they are WRONG to do so." StrongAxe

Plucking a date out of thin air and calling it the birth date of Jesus Christ, that Bible has not even mentioned or taught a Christian to do, and dare stand before God using Romans 14:5 to justify that wicked lie? That's "adding on to the Word".

Well, John has a grave warning for the likes of you, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book" Revelation 22:18
---christan on 12/8/12


J-Marc:

As far as observing days is concerned:

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

If you don't want to observe special days, that's perfectly well and fine. But it's NOT fine to tell others that they are WRONG to do so.
---StrongAxe on 12/8/12


\\To mention what you have mentioned and justify "christmas" as the birth day of Christ is indeed foolish and deserving of death by God.\\

Keep on blessing me and increasing my heavenly treasure, christan.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/8/12


although Constantine did not start he was instrumental in making it mans holiday very hard for many to reconcile because of dozens of small changes and chaos surrounding this day over history. Most people do not believe the bible is inspired by God and taught their religious leaders have ability to make things holy a direct contradiction to God. A true Believer desires to follow the Lord NOT religious leaders who do the opposite of the Lord, and we take heed to Lord's warning to keep ourselves from the traditions of men. Whether you call it a nativity, xmas, it all is part of Satans plan of chaos. God is not the author of confusion and his words are very plain you cannot mix an evil gentile tradition of men and make it holy - ever.
---Follower_of_Christ on 12/8/12


\\Constantine had nothing to do with the celebration of the Nativity on 25 December.\\
---Cluny on 12/7/12

I agree. It's the default go-to scapegoat syndrome. When someone isn't very informed, the default is to blame Constantine

Maybe Constantine can be blamed if the Bush tax cuts expire
---James_L on 12/8/12




"For that matter, the Declaration of Independence was actually adopted on 2 July, not 4. Yet the FOURTH is when we celebrate American Independence."

Cluny, I care not what the world celebrates every other day, so long as the Lord Jesus Christ name is not used in vain. That does not mean they will not be held accountable for their sin of unbelief in Jesus by God Almighty.

None of the celebrations mentioned above has anything to do with the Holy Bible, so don't equate them with your "christmas celebration", if you know where I'm going with it. To mention what you have mentioned and justify "christmas" as the birth day of Christ is indeed foolish and deserving of death by God.
---christan on 12/8/12


Most Americans don't know how Christmas came to be celebrated on December 25th : The Emperor Constantine chose the date because it was winter solstice in the Julian Calendar, the birthday of dying and rising gods like Mithra and Sol.

A:They did so to compete with pagan holidays that were around the same time. The actual date of the birth of Jesus Christ has been studied to be around September to October. When the Jewsih moed called Sukkot aka Tabernacles is celebrated.

It gives a deeper meaning to what John said, "The word made flesh. To dwell/tabernacle among us."
---jan4378 on 12/8/12


IT was the same pagan priests through whom God worked to determine just what books would be in the NT and Bible to start with.

Or does that count?

After all, neither dropped down out of heaven already written.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/7/12


I don't know where Ric got his information, but Constantine had nothing to do with the celebration of the Nativity on 25 December. It was already being done at least 100 years previously.

Furthermore, at the time of Constantine, the solstices were on the 21, NOT the 25th.

Finally, the Armenians do not observe the Nativity on 25 December. Instead, they still follow the older Eastern Christian custom of celebrating the Incarnation--including the Annunciation, Nativity, Adoration of the Magi, and Baptism of Christ--on 6 January.

Now what?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/7/12


"Your pagan priests that instituted such a date"- christan.

Yes christan, and don't forget it was the same pagan priests that introduced the pagan trinity prevalent in Christendom. The pagan trinity fashioned in ancient Egypt, sifted through Hellenic Platonic philosophy of 'metaphysics' to give your 3 in one god.

Thanks to Plato, you can explain how you can believe not one god, but 3 in one.

Satan the brother of Jesus? What a ridiculous statement. The angel who became satan renounced any claim to be part of God's family of true worshippers. However, your brand of theology will always have Satan as a Son of your hellfire triune god.
---David8318 on 12/7/12


\\"Isn't it then, "celebration of a DAY"?" [ Yes a Day!]\\

No, and your saying so won't make it so.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/7/12


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"Missing the Son and the Holy Spirit." Christan

Missing? Jehovah's WItnesses certainly believe in the Son and Holy Spirit but no scripture says that God is made up of three persons- the Father the Son and Holy Spirit.

Will he pull out the Johannine Comma? Wait for it...
---scott on 12/7/12


Jesus says He is "the Beginning of the creation of God", in Revelation 3:14. Jesus is the Beginning of any good that God creates. So, whatever is good about Christmas did not begin with any human on this earth. But humans have done what is wrong, then self-righteously critical people say those wrong people represent what Christmas really is.

I too can still make up ways to criticize others so I can look down on them. This is wrong for me to do!!

Satan hates the birth of Jesus, but we thank You, Father, for the birth of Jesus and the day He was born. And it is good to celebrate the way You please (c: > the way You intend for good whatever humans have done stupid and wrong (c:
---willie_c: on 12/7/12


"Isn't it then, "celebration of a DAY"?" [ Yes a Day!]
---christan Thanks!
Gla.4:9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 17 They zealously affect you, but not well, yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.18 But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you.
---J-Marc on 12/7/12


christan, consider this:

The pre-Reformation Churches (and a few post-Reformation ones) celebrate the Transfiguration of Christ on 6 August.

No one really knows the calendar date on which this took place.

Now, is this the celebration of a DAY or of a FACT?

For that matter, the Declaration of Independence was actually adopted on 2 July, not 4. Yet the FOURTH is when we celebrate American Independence.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/7/12


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"He means that it is not the DAY that is important, but the FACT (that Christ was born of a virgin). Which you also agree on. Remember, Cluny DID say it is NOT the celebration of a DAY." Peter

Before you jump of the Cluny bandwagon of flip-flops, I suggest you ask Cluny and yourself this question: DO YOU CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS? Which is most likely you do, WHAT DAY DOES CHRISTMAS FALL ON?

I never agreed anything with Cluny but the very fact that Scripture does declare that Christ was born in the flesh, period.

The issue now at hand is Christmas Day which is celebrated as the birth of Christ on December 25. Do you deny this? Isn't it then, "celebration of a DAY"? Your smoke bomb is blinding you.
---christan on 12/7/12


Christan: '"In any case, the feast on 25 December is not the celebration of a day, but of a FACT recorded in the Holy Gospels." 12/3/12

It seems to me you have misunderstood what Cluny meant when he wrote that......

Basic English

He means that it is not the DAY that is important, but the FACT (that Christ was born of a virgin)

Which you also agree on

Remember, Cluny DID say it is NOT the celebration of a DAY
---Peter on 12/6/12


"But I never did this. NOW who's bearing false witness?" Cluny

Let's see if you remember:

"In any case, the feast on 25 December is not the celebration of a day, but of a FACT recorded in the Holy Gospels." 12/3/12

"At my church a Christmas tree, decorated with Christian symbols, and a creche are set up in the parish hall." 11/28/12

"The verse in Jeremiah is not talking about Christmas trees and never has been, as Christmas trees weren't invented until after the Protestant reformation by German Christians." 11/28/12

Your defense of christmas, which is DECEMBER 25 is in black and white! I rest my case.
---christan on 12/6/12


"In order for 1 Tim 3:15 to make any sense is that it needs a visible church" Ruben

You are advocating that for anyone to "make sense" of the Holy Bible, they must be a Roman Catholic? Ya, right. Know why it's called the "BROAD GATE to destruction"? I was a cradle Catholic and for forty-three years! It was complete darkness but thanks and praise God Almighty. By His mercy and grace, He brought me out of darkness into His glorious light and into Jesus Christ.

Do we see a "visible church" here in Christianet? But by the grace of God I can tell from the words you and others speak as to whether you are of Christ or not. Guess what? You know my answer.
---christan on 12/6/12


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\\ I don't reject the birth of Christ, but I reject December 25 as His birth date which you so strongly advocate. \\

But I never did this.

NOW who's bearing false witness?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/6/12


Our Father in Heaven, As the example of Nehemiah, i humbly confess and beg forgiveness for me, my Father, and Grand Fathers of the disobedience we commited. Christmas trees we put up,giving Santa lists of things we wanted but did't need, teaching our children songs that teach lies,gluttonising our selves at the festivities, putting up the mistletoe, celebrating the birthday of Christ when you never commanded it. Forgive us Lord of these abominations. i repent! In the name of the one true Christ, Yashua the Anointed Messiah, the real Jesus, Amen
---J_Marc on 12/6/12


Christan
1 Tim 3:15 says "the church of the living God is the pillar and ground of truth"
It does not continue and says as long as the scripture leads it.
Don't give me that "We" christians born-again are the church.
If that is the case than scripture is wrong about the Church as the pillar and ground of truth!

Funny thing about the "We" is that they all go by sola scriptura, No, Christan pillar and ground of truth is a soild rock and not one which goes all over the place with different doctrines!

In order for 1 Tim 3:15 to make any sense is that it needs a visible church that can trace itself back to Jesus and my friend the Catholic Church is the only one that is able to do just that.
---Ruben on 12/6/12


"Christian, are you JW?" NurseRobert

Are you kidding? Me a JW? I'm a Christian or can't you tell? I believe in One God who's the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. Whereas the JWs are missing the Son and the Holy Spirit. And even worse, to them satan is the brother of their jesus.

Any mores questions?
---christan on 12/5/12


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"...you seem to assume that if the Bible doesn't command something, it's forbidden." Cluny

There you go again, making accusations just to sidetrack your problem. When did I even made a comment like the one above, you accuse me of?

The issue is December 25 which you call the birth of Christ. I don't reject the birth of Christ, but I reject December 25 as His birth date which you so strongly advocate. According to God's words, you're "bearing false witness". It clearly shows that you do not even know the true Christ of the Bible, but think you do.

"This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3
---christan on 12/5/12


"Jesus gave the Apostles and thier successors whatever you bind on Earth will be bind in Heaven." Ruben

And the apostles binded December 25 as Christ's birth? Is that even in the Scriptures? Anyone will tell you that it's not. So how do you even justify Matthew 16:19 and 18:8 with your lust for christmas celebrations and even declaring it to be a Christian affair? O I forgot, your "successors" of the apostles must be your pagan priests that instituted such a date.

Are you even listening to yourself? You simply quote Matthew 16:19 and 18:18 to justify your pagan affair with what Christ spoke. That's blasphemy, for your info! But like you care, that's because christmas is more important to you.
---christan on 12/5/12


It was in the Spring of the year.
---pat on 12/5/12


trey: I agree totally with your comment below. It doesn't matter the exact date His birth is celebrated, the most important thing is that the goodness that Christ brought and gives to mankind is worth celebrating.
---Adetunji on 12/6/12


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What difference does it make if he was born on Dec 25th or January 1 or Sept 11th? I believe the date makes no difference. What matters it that he came, and lived and died and lives forever more!!!

As Cluny says, "Glory to Jesus Christ!!!"
---trey on 12/5/12


\\JW's do as Jesus Christ commanded: 'Keep doing this in remembrance of me' (Luke 22:19).\\

You also don't receive it, thus showing you have no life in you. But of course, you don't believe in the real Jesus anyway.

Futhermore, Jesus did not say, "Do this in remembrance of My death," but "of ME."

Finally, the word translated "memory" or "remembrance" is ANAMNESIS, which is more than a mental commemoration, but an actually making present of that which is commemoration. It's the ENTIRE Christ and His Life that are made present at the Eucharist.

But it's pointless to discuss matters such as this with unbelievers.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/5/12


Ruben- this is not the thread to discuss how the Bible Students determined from scripture that the 'Gentile times' would end in 1914. I'll for the time being apply Jesus' words at Matthew 7:6. If you're that eager, ask the next JW that calls or look it up on jwdotorg.

The difference of course is JW's don't celebrate '1914' with pagan festivals and rituals as do false-christians on 25 December. JW's do as Jesus Christ commanded: 'Keep doing this in remembrance of me' (Luke 22:19). Jesus said this regarding his death, not his birth. JW's are obedient to that command.

The 'Gentile times' or the 'times of the nations' had a specific time limit (Luke 21:24 NIV). Read Daniel, you might learn something.
---David8318 on 12/5/12


Christian, are you JW?
---NurseRobert on 12/5/12


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christan, you seem to assume that if the Bible doesn't command something, it's forbidden.

I say that if the Bible doesn't forbid something, it's permitted.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/5/12


Christan - I am no fence sitter. From the day I married we made a decision that our children would never have Santa Clause in their lives. They'd come across him via relatives, school etc. but would always know that he was a fictional character and that all their gifts at Christmas came from relatives and friends.

We were ridiculed in some churches and even ostracised by several members of another church. Three of my children are born-again Christians and only one has allowed his children to believe in Santa.

I have come across very FEW Christians who agree with us on this issue but I KNOW that we were correct to do this.

Fence sitting never pays.
---Rita_H on 12/5/12


Ruben- I don't believe Jesus 'came' in 1914. You've yet again got your facts wrong.

Jesus' 1st coming didn't occur on Dec.25 either. David 12/4/12

David I stand correct, but it is believed Jesus Christ was installed as Gods heavenly King in 1914, with no scriptual verses...
---Ruben on 12/5/12


christan * Ruben, you have the audacity to use Matthew 16:19 and 18:18 to justify a date of Christ's birth so that you can celebrate a pagan festival? Is that what Christ really meant when He spoke those words?

Jesus gave the Apostles and thier successors whatever you bind on Earth will be bind in Heaven.

christan * I'm sure the leader of the pack is similar to the one that tempted Christ in the mountains, for he too knew the Scriptures but was tempting the wrong person.

Satan was interpreting scripture on his own, sounds similar to what you do, don't you think:)
---Ruben on 12/5/12


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RitaH, if there's one thing you must learn if you're a Christian is - do not sit on the fence.

When Moses came down from Sinai with the tablets where the children of Israel had just made a golden calf, did he reason with them? Go read the account in Exodus 32.

The same "warfare" is happening here and guess what's the "golden calf" before us at this period of time? Yes, "Christmas" - the very same "golden calf" of the many false christians who has molded and have us belief it's Christianity.

Where in the Scriptures are we commanded of such a time and tradition that we should follow?
---christan on 12/5/12


Cluny, amazing how you try to zig-zag your way out of what you have said which means exactly what you've said without one even having to decode it. Needless for us to repeat what you have said, it's in black and white.

Your comment of "Now, where are we commanded in the Bible to use computers?" is as stupid as saying "where are we commanded in the Bible to use a car or plane to get from one place to another". There's nothing wrong to using the wonderful providence of God like the computer, car or plane.

What's wrong is when you use them to propagate lies about the Word of God. Even then, the computer did not sin but it's you who has.
---christan on 12/5/12


Please calm down folks! Why is it so necessary to try to prove or unprove that Jesus was born on any specific date. We will never know the date until we meet Him.

Someone decided long ago that Dec. 25 would be a good day for all those who believe that He WAS born (and accept His Deity and reason for coming) to celebrate that fact.

We all have a choice to do or not do that and arguing will change nothing.

As for me and mine - we will enjoy the day with thanksgiving. I would like to think that you all will do that too.
---Rita_H on 12/5/12


Cluny, I never said you said the DATE was a fact.

You said, 'the feast on 25 December is not the celebration of a day, but of a FACT recorded in the Holy Gospels'

You clearly associate the Gospel record with 25 December- "its not the celebration of the day, BUT of a fact recorded in the holy Gospels". Those are your words. Sorry if you can't understand your own writing.

So I ask, 'Where is it a fact that the Gospels record 25 December as a feast to be celebrated every year'?

Where is it recorded Cluny? This is your big moment Cluny, tell us all!

'The Nativity according to the Flesh was a fact' is not what you said on 12/3/12.
---David8318 on 12/5/12


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\\Where I ask is it a FACT that the Gospels record 25 December as a feast to be celebrated every year?\\

I never said the DATE was a fact, nor did I mean it.

I said the Nativity according to the Flesh was a fact.

I'm sorry you cannot read with understanding.

Now, where are we commanded in the Bible to use computers?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/4/12


\\And where's the command in the Scriptures that the Christians are told to celebrate His birthday anyways?\\

Cluny's answer- "Where is it forbidden?"

That wasn't the question christan asked. Christan asked where is the scriptural command to celebrate his birth?
---David8318 on 12/4/12


Ruben- I don't believe Jesus 'came' in 1914. You've yet again got your facts wrong.

Jesus' 1st coming didn't occur on Dec.25 either. No where in the Gospels is Jesus spoken of as being 'God incarnate'. If God could 'incarnate' himself as a human, why be born in the natural way, and have to grow to manhood. Can't he simply 'incarnate' himself?

Jesus was/is God's son who 'became flesh'. Jesus wasn't clothed with flesh, he was flesh- John 1:14.

Jesus had to become flesh. If Jesus was not fully flesh but 'God incarnate', there would be no salvation for us.
---David8318 on 12/4/12


Cluny asks, 'Will someone please cut and paste my own words, with the date, where I ever said that the Nativity according to the flesh of our Savior was definitively on 25 December?'

Here we are, I'll paste it again- 'In any case, the feast on 25 December is not the celebration of a day, but of a FACT recorded in the Holy Gospels'- Cluny, 12/3/12.

Where I ask is it a FACT that the Gospels record 25 December as a feast to be celebrated every year?

Cluny spews out more pagan holy days- January 6, March 25. Nothing to do with Christianity or the Bible, but everything to do with paganism and the occult.
---David8318 on 12/4/12


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Ruben, you have the audacity to use Matthew 16:19 and 18:18 to justify a date of Christ's birth so that you can celebrate a pagan festival? Is that what Christ really meant when He spoke those words?

Wow! What kind of bible studies are you guys conducting in your ministry. I'm sure the leader of the pack is similar to the one that tempted Christ in the mountains, for he too knew the Scriptures but was tempting the wrong person.

Just a reminder to you "If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book". How do you like this for a respond to your understanding of Matthew?
---christan on 12/4/12


"Where is it forbidden?" Cluny

Is that all you can say? You initially said with a convicted heart, "In any case, the feast on 25 December is not the celebration of a day, but of a FACT recorded in the Holy Gospels." And when challenged to produce the Scriptures, you can only reply "Where is it forbidden?"

You guys must be thinking that there are people just as blind as you and take what you say about Christ with a pinch of salt and believe you. Remember the Bereans? Well, God has given His people hearts to discern like He did with the Bereans.

So, nice try.
---christan on 12/4/12


David8318:

What you say MIGHT have been true if, in fact, Cluny ever said that Jesus was, in fact, born on December 25. However, I can't recall him ever saying that. in fact, he has said the opposite. Can you cite any post on any blog here where he did so? If not, you are putting words you yourself condemn into his mouth, and then condemning him for them. What is wrong with this picture?
---StrongAxe on 12/4/12


1 Tim. 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' FABLES, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 2nd Tim.4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears,4 And they shall turn away their ears from the TRUTH, and shall be turned unto FABLES.2nd Pet.1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised FABLES, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
---J_Marc on 12/4/12


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\\ The idea Jesus was born on Dec.25 is the pagan red herring.\\

Will someone please cut and paste my own words, with the date, where I ever said that the Nativity according to the flesh of our Savior was definitively on 25 December?

I did say it was proposed, on the basis of his studies, by a Christian writer of 211 AD, and that Constantine had nothing to do with it, but where did I say this was the definite date, and that I am promoting it?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/4/12


Yes the gospels record Jesus' birth, life and death. But the feast on Dec.25 is not recorded in the gospels but in the annals of paganism.

If it wasn't for paganism Dec.25 would be as irrelevant and as unimportant as any day on the calendar. Pagans perpetuate their Dec.25 festival under the guise of 'Christianity'.
---David8318 on 12/4/12

And this is from someone who believes Jesus came in 1914, are you kidding me?
---Ruben on 12/4/12


"In any case, the feast on 25 December is not the celebration of a day, but of a FACT recorded in the Holy Gospels. Can you tell the difference?"

Cluny is simply a recruiting agent for paganism. The idea Jesus was born on Dec.25 is the pagan red herring. Its the lure to coax gullible people into paganism. Cluny is simply a great pagan sales agent.

Yes the gospels record Jesus' birth, life and death. But the feast on Dec.25 is not recorded in the gospels but in the annals of paganism.

If it wasn't for paganism Dec.25 would be as irrelevant and as unimportant as any day on the calendar. Pagans perpetuate their Dec.25 festival under the guise of 'Christianity'.
---David8318 on 12/4/12


//Are you DENYING that the Gospels of Matthew (chapter 1) and Luke (chapter 2) record that Jesus is God Incarnate, born of the Virgin Mary on earth?// NOT AT ALL! i'm Thankful every day for it! Luke2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

12 And this shall be a sign unto you, Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
---J_Marc on 12/4/12


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\\And where's the command in the Scriptures that the Christians are told to celebrate His birthday anyways?\\

Where is it forbidden?

\\Now you know why there's no date given to His birth?\\

Non sequituur, i.e., it does not follow.

Orthodox also celebrate Christ's conception (25 March), His Baptism (6 January), His Transfiguration (6 August), and others.

Some of these days depend on the date chosen for His Nativity According to the Flesh, and others are arbitrary.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/4/12


there's no date given to His birth?
---christan on 12/4/12

Christan,

What so many of you miss:

Jesus gave the Church the authorithy to bind and loose , First Peter

"whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."

And then the Apostles:

"I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven, and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven"

1 Jhn 4:6 says "He that knoweth God, heareth us."

Who are the us? (the bishops and the successors to the apostles).

It is not by just reading the Bible!
---Ruben on 12/4/12


Strongaxe- if you believe December 25 was a date randomly 'picked out' of the air, you are far more misled than I had imagined.

December 25 is not just "any old day" strongaxe. It is the most sacred of all pagan holy days. Dec.25 is the Roman Saturnalia and the feast of Mithras. It is not by accident Dec.25 has been chosen for you. Even the Pope is now realising.

In apostate Christendom, the pagan holy date Dec.25 comes first, then Jesus.

You and yours may want to 'pick a day' to "honour" Christ. I do it every day of the year, including Dec.25 but without the pagan festivals & rituals. There is no Biblical instruction to celebrate Jesus' birth. Jesus wasn't born on the pagan holy day Dec.25.
---David8318 on 12/4/12


"We just arbitrarily pick one of those (December 25), and celebrate it on that one day. What is wrong with that?" StrongAxe

We are talking about a particular person (who came to save His people from their sins) who happens to be the Son of God and not the President of USA. Bad comparison of Holiness and fallen man!

"What's wrong with that?" Try this for an answer: "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain." Exodus 20:7

And where's the command in the Scriptures that the Christians are told to celebrate His birthday anyways? Now you know why there's no date given to His birth?
---christan on 12/4/12


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\\ I hope you are able to support your claims with explicit chapters and verses from the Holy Bible that you dare say "a FACT recorded in the Holy Gospels."\\

Are you DENYING that the Gospels of Matthew (chapter 1) and Luke (chapter 2) record that Jesus is God Incarnate, born of the Virgin Mary on earth?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/4/12


Paul puts the matters in this perspective! Gla. 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

17 They zealously affect you, but not well, yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.

18 But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing,
---J_Marc on 12/4/12


"In any case, the feast on 25 December is not the celebration of a day, but of a FACT recorded in the Holy Gospels. Can you tell the difference?" Cluny

For the sake of your esteem reputation of an Orthodox, I hope you are able to support your claims with explicit chapters and verses from the Holy Bible that you dare say "a FACT recorded in the Holy Gospels."

There are only four Gospels in the Holy Bible, unless you are planning to pull the rabbit out of the hat and include Judas or some others outside of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
---christan on 12/3/12


David8318:

We don't know exactly what day Jesus was born on. So what? We just arbitrarily pick one of those (December 25), and celebrate it on that one day. What is wrong with that? We celebrate President's Day, not on the actual birthday of either president in question either, and that's OK. We aren't celebrating the exact DAY of their births, as the FACT that they were born. Get the distinction?
---StrongAxe on 12/3/12


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\I said I was quoting Reuters & CNN. Irrespective of who is right or who is wrong regarding the century the said monk is supposed to have made this mistake,\\

As we all know, secular sources, especially the MSM, are good places to find out information on ANY part of Church History.

Seems to me there's a line from GYPSY, where Rose censures her daughter for "reading book reviews like they were books."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/3/12


When I was a "witness" anything to do with Christmas was taboo. But now 20 yrs.later people have "holiday trees" and say "happy hollidays" maybe this is more acceptable since enjoying a "holiday" is not unscriptural HUH?
I don't know, they don't talk to me!
We have (holiday ?) lights on our house! Very pretty in the glistening snow! Is this pagan?
---1st_cliff on 12/3/12


The Shaff-Herzogg Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, " The date of Brumalia following Saturnalia were to deeply entrenched in popular custom to be set aside by Christian influence. The pagan festivals with its riotous merry making were so popular that Christians were glad to have an excuse to continue it's with little change in it's spirit and manner." Jer. 10:2 "Learn not the way of the heathen"
---J_Marc on 12/3/12


\\At least Ric has got his facts right about the winter solstice.\\

But in the southern hemisphere, it's the SUMMER solstice.

Now what?

**Even as things are ,more suicides are committed this season than any other time of year! Fact!**

I think this is more related to what is called Seasonal Affective Disorder, or SAD (honest!). Some people are prone do depression in winter because of the shorter hours of sunlight.

Something similar happens in the Southern Hemisphere at its winter solstice.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/3/12


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Obviously Cluny you are unable to tell the difference between Biblical facts and pagan festivals. You've been sitting in pagan festivals for so long you can't smell it anymore!

I didn't say I read the book- have you? I said I was quoting Reuters & CNN. Irrespective of who is right or who is wrong regarding the century the said monk is supposed to have made this mistake, you avoid the point of my post being Pope Benedict is realising the falsity of the December 25 date of Jesus birth. You say its 'fact'. Please show us all where scripture tells us we should celebrate Jesus' birthday (or any birthday) on December 25?

The Pope knows its not, I know its not, and Ric has his doubts- what convinces you Cluny?
---David8318 on 12/3/12


It is wonderful that Jesus came to earth in the flesh. So, we do thank You, LORD our Father, for the day Jesus was born. The Bible says to thank God for all that is good, and the birth of Jesus is good and the day He was born is good.

But Satan hates Jesus and the day He was born, I would say.

Actually, every day we celebrate the birth of Jesus, by obeying God and loving the way that Jesus wants and is represented by His coming to us in the flesh. Jesus could have stayed in Heaven, but He is so unconceited that He came here to reach us and share with us. We, too, then, need to be willing to leave our own little heavens, in order to love any and all people.
---willie_c: on 12/3/12


Bro.Cliff goodmorning, you.make a very good point. I am here in Michigan and yes! Alot.of suicides in the winter especially when it turn.cruel cold. Many.people I have known in this barrio have suffer terrible depression some be in the psch ward & many of them handicap people. I can thank God that God has bless me since on CNT & my hobbies, keep busy. Prayer works! God is real.
---ELENA on 12/3/12


\\... December 25 is not the birth date of Jesus Christ, and due to a blunder by a 16th Century monk he was born earlier than previously believed.\\

Apparently, you have not actually read the book.

The present BC/AD chronology is based on the work of Dionysius Exiguus, who lived in the EIGHTH century, not the 16. He was using the best information he had at the time he developed it.

The 7-4 BC year for the birth of Jesus according to the flesh is a later historical development.

In any case, the feast on 25 December is not the celebration of a day, but of a FACT recorded in the Holy Gospels. Can you tell the difference?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/3/12


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Most Americans don't know, but Pope Benedict does.

Pope Benedict has just released a book 'The Infancy Narratives - Jesus of Nazareth' in which the Pope writes (according to reuters & CNN) December 25 is not the birth date of Jesus Christ, and due to a blunder by a 16th Century monk he was born earlier than previously believed.

Confession time for the Pope! RCC/Unorthodox churches have a lot of catching up to do!

Ric is correct in identifying December 25 as the birth of the Roman god 'mithra'. December 25 is pagan Mithramas, and nothing to do with Jesus as Pope Benedict is discovering.
---David8318 on 12/3/12


"It was first proposed by a Christian writer (whose name escapes me) in 211, a good century before Constantine." Cluny

Who cares who the proposer is or who even started Christmas. What's important to a true Christian is - it's most definitely unbiblical and not taught in the Holy Bible to "celebrate" the birth of Christ. Let alone a day of 25 December. At least Ric has got his facts right about the winter solstice.
---christan on 12/3/12


Ric, Does it REALLY matter?
Most months and days of the week are named after pagan gods,yet no one challenges that fact!
Try to imagine NO Christmas festivities ,colored lights,traditional music, family get-to-gethers,presents,extra food for the homeless, toys for the underprivileged children etc.
Add to this the long dark cold, dreary days of winter!
Here in the great white north, with limited daylight,
life would be unbearable.
Even as things are ,more suicides are committed this season than any other time of year! Fact!
---1st_cliff on 12/2/12


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