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Study Both NT And OT

Should the guide for our doctrinal beliefs be the New Testament alone or should we also derive our doctrinal beliefs from the Old Testament as well?

I notice some denominations base some of their doctrinal stand on selected OT verses alone, such as tithing, Sabbath observance, dietary laws, etc.

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I notice some denominations base some of their doctrinal stand on selected OT verses alone, such as tithing, Sabbath observance, dietary laws, etc.
---e.lee7537 on 12/4/12
Every single Apostle based all thier doctrines on OLD TESTEMENT ALONE

so SDA do have it right if ALL their doctrine is based on OT

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines

ironically, everyone who tries to have NEW TESTEMENT ONLY based doctrine end up woth strange and diverse doctrines from the BIBLE ( OT AND NT)
---francis on 12/12/12


Jerry, its no lunacy as you call it. All Scripture is given so that we know that Jesus Christ is now our rest. We are not under the written letter of the Law. The Scriptures teach us that. You just refuse to believe it, and not just refuse but you make a mockery of the rest we have in Christ. A mockery of our spiritual life together with Christ, and our spiritual resurrection. It is all there if you only believe.
But your intention has to change. And it still hasn't. you look for passages that can support your view, instead of looking for passages to learn the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 12/11/12


What lunacy!!!

To what was Paul referring when he wrote:

2Ti 3:16,17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

From what source did Christ and all the Apostles frequently quote?

If you answered the Old Testament....YOU'RE RIGHT!!!

If it was good enough for Christ and the Apostles, why is it not good enough for us? Because it steps on your man-made traditions perhaps?


---jerry6593 on 12/11/12


Mark V,peace! i understand what you teach! DEEDS & WORKS of the law were done away with NOT the 10 COMMANDMENTS of God!

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the DEEDS of the law.

Galations 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the WORKS of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the WORKS of the law: for by the WORKS of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross,
---J-Marc on 12/11/12


//How could they have looked forward to something they didn't know would happen?
Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/12//
They couldn't, but there are some here that believe the OT saints knew.
---michael_e on 12/10/12




How could they have looked forward to something they didn't know would happen?
---Cluny on 12/10/12
Genesis 3:15
Genesis 22:8
Isaiah 53
Hosea 6:2
Psalms 22
---francis on 12/10/12


Psalms 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed [are] the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.

Psalms 119:2 Blessed [are] they that keep his testimonies, [and that] seek him with the whole heart.

Psalms 119:3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.

Psalms 119:4 Thou hast commanded [us] to keep thy precepts diligently.

Psalms 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!

Psalms 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.

Psalms 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.

Psalms 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
---francis on 12/10/12


Gal4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

What follows is the Apostle Paul explaining that the Jews were in slavery to the law to keep the law, but 130 years before the law was given God had promised that Sarah would have a son, Isaac. Isaac was the promised son born after the Spirit. Isaac is a picture of each child of God. (Gen 22:17)

Paul explains that Ishmael was the son born after the flesh (Gal 4:29). What all means is that, our salvation is not by the works of the law. We are free. We are not under the law. We are saved by GRACE!!!
---trey on 12/10/12


\\Saying those living before the cross looked forward to the crucifixion, and we look back to it.\\

How could they have looked forward to something they didn't know would happen?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/12


J. Marc, you still don't get it, you need to be free from the law. The real true rest is Christ Jesus. Why would anyone want to continue in the rest that is but symbolic? The Sabbath was a celebration of God's work in creation (Gen. 2:2,3: Exo. 20:11) After the Exodus, the Sabbath expanded to a celebration of God's delieverance from oppression in Egypt (Deut. 5:15). As the result of the resurrection, the Sabbath's emphasis shifted once again. It became the celebration of the "True Rest" we have through Christ who delievers us from sin and the grave (Heb. 4:1-11). For the Christian Church the most dangerous snare was a failure to recognize that Jesus was the substance that fulfilled the symbol of the Sabbath.
---Mark_V. on 12/10/12




Some believe,everyone who has been saved, was saved by the gospel of grace. Saying those living before the cross looked forward to the crucifixion, and we look back to it. No one can believe a gospel they haven't heard. The 12 didn't know Jesus was going to be killed, and be the sacrifice for all of our sins (Luke 18:31-34 and Matt. 16:21-22). After His crucifixion, they didn't know Christ would resurrect until afterwards (John 20:9). Clearly, they didn't know our gospel It was hidden from them by God. They believed the kingdom gospel, that Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God (Matt 16:16 and John 11:27). They didn't know our gospel of grace after 3yrs with Christ, certainly no one else before then knew it.
---michael_e on 12/10/12


why is it that televangelist use malachi in the OT but contradicts that we are NOT under the law?
what about proverbs? it is in the OT & rich greedy don,t use that when it comes to work. malachi is their preferred verse esp malachi 3:10 & give your 10%
---mike on 12/10/12


Mark_V. "That rest comes through faith in Jesus Christ." Amen!

That faith presses me to obey the Lord's Sabbath.

Ezekiel 20:20 "hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God"

The Sabbath is taught in the new testament.

Hebrews 4:9 "There remains therefore a (Sabbath)rest for the people of God"

The commandments were not done away with.

If we love, WE will keep HIS Commandments!

I John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome,"
---J-Marc on 12/10/12


What they do not contain is the gospel of the cross for salvation. Christs death, burial, and resurrection do not even occur until the final chapters of the books.
---michael_e on 12/9/12
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Those books were not a dictation. they were not written as the events unfolded.

They were written some 10+ years after the death of Jesus, to affirm to many that Jesus was the messiah.
Paul's writings were written not to show that Jesus was the messiah, but to help solve problems that arose in established churches.
COnsider the books of Romans written by paul. It was written to a church NOT established by paul, a church of Jew and Gentiles which paul himself did not start
---francis on 12/9/12


Jesus taught from the Old Testament & that's good enough for me.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16,17

The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed. The New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.
---Leon on 12/9/12


The OT books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are commonly referred to as the Four Gospels. Many Bibles even have in the titles of these books The Gospel According to Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John.

All four of them contain the same gospel: the gospel of the kingdom. The gospel of the kingdom declared the fulfillment of the prophetic kingdom to the nation Israel.

What they do not contain is the gospel of the cross for salvation. Christs death, burial, and resurrection do not even occur until the final chapters of the books.

Jesus in his earthly ministry confirmed the kingdom promises to the circumcision (Israel): Rom 15:8
---michael_e on 12/9/12


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I see six days, and I see seventh day, I do not see Saturday anywhere.
---Mark_V. on 12/9/12

Ezekiel 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD, The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days, but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.


Do you suppose anyone has ever came to the house of God on the 1st day and think it was the seventh?

God never gave names to the days of the week. Man did that. The first day was names SUN day because it is the day on which pagans worshiped the sun.

If you choose to trangress the law of God because you feel that saturday is not the seventh day, It is OK.
---francis on 12/9/12


Concerning the Sabbath so let's reason this out:

God rewarded the Jewish people when they obeyed the ten commandments, punished them when they didn't. The Sabbath was to be remembered when the 10 commandments were issued.

Using the Jewish calendar, the Jews rested on their seventh day. If one would overlay the Jewish calendar over the Gregorian calendar one would find that the Jewish Sabbath falls in line with the western saturday.

It's important to note that in today's very hectic world God's people really needs a day of rest to know God better.
---Steveng on 12/9/12


J. Marc. you proof nothing.(Heb. 4:9) shows God's true rest did not come through Joshua or Moses, but through Jesus Christ, who is greater than either one. Joshua let the nation of Israel into the land of their promised rest (Joshua 21:43-45). However, that was merely the earthly rest who was but the shadow of what was involved in the heavenly rest. The very fact that according to Psa. 95, God was still offering His rest in the time of David (long after Israel had been in the land) meant that the rest being offered was spiritual, superior to that which Joshua obtained. The heavenly rest is characterized by the fulness of the Heavenly promise (Eph. 1:3) and the absence of any labor to obtain it. That rest comes through faith in Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/9/12


e.lee7537 "Where is it written that Christians must obseve the jewish sababth and the Levitical dietary laws? New Testament book, chpater and verse please."
Sabbath New Testament proof, See v.9!
HEB.4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a Sabbath rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
---J-Marc on 12/9/12


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---e.lee7537 on 12/8/12
1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
For it is sanctified by the WORD OF GOD and prayer.

When writing to Timothy, Paul references that what can be eaten is sanctified BY THE WORD OF GOD

In context the only word of God which sanctifies any meats is what is called the old testament. It would be the ONLY source that Timothy and everyone else in the early church had.

By telling us that what can be eaten is sanctified by the word of God, Paul is upholding the dietary laws sanctified by God in His word

The phrases " it is written," and "Word of God," in the NT referrers to the writings of the OT
---francis on 12/9/12


francis, more passages will not say Saturday Sabbath. Here you give:

"Exodus 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

I see six days, and I see seventh day, I do not see Saturday anywhere. Did God forget to mention it was Sunday when He started creation and rested Saturday? Or did He just think it didn't matter the day, so long as the Seventh day they choose was a day of rest? If it was important enough He would have said Saturday. But He didn't. Man said Saturday, and now man say Sunday. I say worship everyday, since He lives in you if you are save.
---Mark_V. on 12/9/12


Phil, Eccl.hist2.25.5 says Paul was beheaded (Roman citizens were not crucified) near the end of Nero's reign 65-68ad
---1st_cliff on 12/7/12

Please, I do not know what Eccl.hist2.25.5 means. I would like to have the reference to what you say, so I can investigate and adjust my understanding, if needed. Could you accurately provide your source for Paul's demise?
---Phil on 12/9/12


//Romans 1:17 it is written,
Romans 15:21 it is written,
1 Cor 1:19 it is written,
2 Cor 9:9 it is written,
Gal 3:13 it is written,
Heb 10:7 it is written
blab blab blah....

Where is it written that Christians must obseve the jewish sababth and the Levitical dietary laws? New Testament book, chpater and verse please.
---e.lee7537 on 12/8/12


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Phil, Eccl.hist2.25.5 says Paul was beheaded (Roman citizens were not crucified) near the end of Nero's reign 65-68ad also believed he was burried in the catacombs where Peter was also hidden (a Christian custom) during the reign of Vespasian 69-70ad!
---1st_cliff on 12/7/12


Then we could just click Francis.
---KarenD on 12/7/12
Romans 1:17 it is written,
Romans 15:21 it is written,
1 Cor 1:19 it is written,
2 Cor 9:9 it is written,
Gal 3:13 it is written,
Heb 10:7 it is written
Ephesians 6:17 the helmet of salvation,
Col 1:25 the word of God,
1 Thess 2:13 the word of God
1 Tim 5:18 the scripture saith
Titus 2:5 the word of God
James 2:8 according to the scripture,
1 Peter 2:6 it is contained in the scriptures

the NT is nothing but chapter after chapter, book after book of quotes from the OT. Is that not true?
Or you do not like me calling Mark_V and idiot?
---francis on 12/7/12


It would be nice if this site worked like facebook and we could just "unfriend" someone whose posts we didn't want to see. Then we could just click Francis.
---KarenD on 12/7/12


Phil,FYI Paul was executed at a spot on the Ostian Way outside Rome in 68 AD! Long before John's death 98AD!
---1st_cliff on 12/7/12

I would greatly appreciate your source. I enjoy being being relieved of error, if I have been walking in it.
---Phil on 12/7/12


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For we know (Romans 1:18-25) for God has shown it to them. Since the creation of the world.. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.


---Mark_V. on 12/7/12
IDIOT

Exodus 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The same saturday sabbath commandment you reject, is the VERY same one that tells us exactly who created.
GOD IS THE CREATER who you rejected for SUN worship
IDIOT
---francis on 12/7/12


e.lee7537"Sabbath observance" Is a commandment!
Christ taught to keep the commandments!Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Paul taught to keep the commandments!1st Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

John taught to keep the commandments!1st John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
---J-Marc on 12/7/12


Bro. Elee, you must mean "walk into adventist church on a "Saturday" not Sunday. I excuse francis, but God doesn't. For we know (Romans 1:18-23) tells us they have no excuse:
"Because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. Since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, "so that they are without excuse" because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened"
The reason he does not preach the Lord Christ, but the keeping of the laws.
---Mark_V. on 12/7/12


"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

Jesus said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." (in Matthew 4:4)

I understand that every word of the early scripture is from the mouth of God, including every word of the genealogies and historical writings, etc. So, we are feeding our way through the whole Bible (c:
---willie_c: on 12/7/12


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Our Father in Heaven, As the example of the prophets, i confess the sins of my Fathers and me, we had other gods by worshiped ourselves and our churches rather than You, we enjoyed images of statues, tv,and internet, we idolized Pastors, sports and rock stars, we took Your name in vain in many ways, we profaned Your Sabbaths,we commited adultery against You by weaving pagan things with Yours, we stole by taking things that were not ours, we did't honor our parents in many ways, we bore false witness by misinterpreting You and others and telling it to others, we did'nt love You or others as You commanded. Please have mercy on us all! In the name of the one true Christ, Yashua the Anointed Messiah, the real Jesus, Amen
---J-Marc on 12/7/12


//Labeling me a "Paulite" is an attempt to smear. The upright ones will notice.
---Phil on 12/7/12//
The upright notice, to follow Paul as he followed Christ is the only way to salvation in this age.
Paul says several times to follow him (1 Cor 4:16, 11:1, Phil 3:17, etc.). Yet, this is an offensive statement to a Jesus-follower. Learn what it means to follow Paul and why it is not diminishing, but rather glorifying the ministry of Christ even more to follow the pattern of the dispenser of Gods grace (1 Tim 1:16, 1 Cor 9:17).
---michael_e on 12/7/12


Phil, so God must then be "rude and irreverent by all accounts" according to you since He has also elected the Gentiles other then the Jews.

Where did you get the idea that the elects are ONLY the Jews? Definitely not from the Scriptures. Do you even realise the epistles were written to the Gentiles in Corinth, Ephesus, Galatia, etc.? After all that was the purpose of the epistles, to reach out to God's elect which included the Gentiles whether you like it or not!

"...that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth"

Where does it say explicitly the election was only to the Jews? Only in your mind.
---christan on 12/7/12


Phil,FYI Paul was executed at a spot on the Ostian Way outside Rome in 68 AD! Long before John's death 98AD!
---1st_cliff on 12/7/12


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You're a well trained Paulite
---1st_cliff on 12/6/12

There is no record of Paul's death. He was detained by Rome [Ac 28:30] in his own rented house for two years, was never charged with a crime, and wrote his last letter at a very late stage of his life [Phm 1:9].

His ministry spanned many decades. It started when he was very young [Ac 7:58], and continued well into his final years.

John's exile to Patmos occured during the Diaspora. His record of the Unveiling came soon after the destruction of Jerusalem.

John did not preach to Gentiles [3Jn 1:7] and was an apostle to the Circumcision.

Labeling me a "Paulite" is an attempt to smear. The upright ones will notice.
---Phil on 12/7/12


Wouldn't that constitute to one being rude in opening or reading things that does not pertain to him/her? ---christan on 12/6/12

The taking upon oneself the promises to Israel's elect, and forcing them into the body of Christ is rude and irreverent by all accounts.

This is done in ignorance, due to the inability to correctly divide the word of truth.

Proper division is not taught, because it exposes falsehoods and error.

The only Apostle that wrote to the Nations was Paul. The rest wrote to their own people, the Jews, according to their own testimony. [Hb 1:1, Ja 1:1, 1Pt 1:1]

The Scriptures were given to the Jews. By grace for faith, we have obtained the earnest of the Spirit and sonship in heaven.
---Phil on 12/7/12


---e.lee7537 on 12/6/12
This is NOT temporary:
1: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,
3: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
4: Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5: Honour thy father and thy mother:
6: Thou shalt not kill.
7: Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8: Thou shalt not steal.
9: Thou shalt not bear false witness.
10: Thou shalt not covet

THIS WAS TEMPORARY

Hebrews 9:2 there was a TABERNAVLE ...Which stood only in meat OFFERINGS and drink OFFERINGS, and divers washing, and CARNAL ordinances, imposed on them
UNTIL the time of reformation.
---francis on 12/6/12


Mark - we really should excuse Frances as he really does not know any better.

In the first place Adventism was birthed in the religious radicalism of the early 1800's when visions, slain in the spirit, and other religious phenomena was widespread.

Secondly the foundation of Adventism was then build on the ministry of those who were not trained with little education. Their leaders were mostly dirt farmers turned preachers.

Thirdly, very few of Adventists even today are educated people. As a matter of fact, they believe that the least educated people are the only ones that God can really works with. Walk into any Adventist church on a Sunday and you will find a very uneducated and untrained pastor in the pulpit.
---e.lee7537 on 12/6/12


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Phil,**Our salvation is based on the latest revelation,Paul alone received it**
Actually John wrote the latest revelation!
Jn.3.16 says everlasting life is based on belief in Christ.
You're a well trained Paulite,but Christ did not approve of Pharisee ism!
---1st_cliff on 12/6/12


francis, only an idiot who knows already salvation is through Christ along, would refuse that offering and want to stay under the law. You sound like that person. No one is stopping you. In fact you cannot help yourself because God has to change your heart first in order for you to even understand. So there you remain under the curse of the law.
---Mark_V. on 12/6/12


"Much mail comes to my house. Not all is addressed to me. If a letter is opened by me to read it, and I see it was intended for my spouse, I may learn important things by reading it, but it is her letter." Phil

Wouldn't that constitute to one being rude in opening or reading things that does not pertain to him/her? The same is said of the epistles written by the apostles. It is directed only to the Christians and not unbelievers.
---christan on 12/6/12


//the NT is nothing but chapter after chapter, book after book of quotes from the OT. only an idiot would not know that
---
However you would have to acknowledge as fact that the New Testament reflects the New Covenant and nowhere in the New Covenant does it command one to observe laws that are distinctly jewish in nature. And such is the Sabbath, the Levitical dietary laws, circumcision, etc.

If you truly knew the doctrine, you would believe that the law as expressed in the Old Covenant was but a temporary injunction or school master until one could be justifed by faith in Christ. Gal. 3:24f

Ever read Galatians? hope that your Adventist church will give you permssiion to study that book.
---e.lee7537 on 12/6/12


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Except for the gospel record of Christ's life and words, who needs Paul? (Pharisee)
He does not figure in to my salvation!
---st_cliff on 12/5/12

Jesus never proclaimed justification from sin through grace and faith,
if so, show us where.

Jesus never preached a new creation of mankind, in His own image, if so, show us where.

Jesus never preached a joint body of Jews and Gentiles on equal footing, is so, show us where.

Correctly divide the word, or remain unapproved of God.

Our salvation is based upon the latest revelation. Paul alone received it.
---Phil on 12/6/12


Much mail comes to my house. Not all is addressed to me. If a letter is opened by me to read it, and I see it was intended for my spouse, I may learn important things by reading it, but it is her letter.

I will acquire vital information, but I am not the subject of the letters.

So too, the Word of God. It is a record of God addressing Israel.

The letters that Paul wrote are addressed to me, a Gentile. The rest of the letters, though to the same "house", were not written to me. Only Paul has letters for the body of Christ.

Paul was the Lord's slave for us. The Kingdom message, and the OT where is springs from, belongs to Israel alone.
---Phil on 12/6/12


He calls the question foolish because
---Mark_V. on 12/5/12

Romans 1:17 it is written,
Romans 15:21 it is written,
1 Cor 1:19 it is written,
2 Cor 9:9 it is written,
Gal 3:13 it is written,
Heb 10:7 it is written
Ephesians 6:17 the helmet of salvation,
Col 1:25 the word of God,
1 Thess 2:13 the word of God
1 Tim 5:18 the scripture saith
Titus 2:5 the word of God
James 2:8 according to the scripture,
1 Peter 2:6 it is contained in the scriptures

the NT is nothing but chapter after chapter, book after book of quotes from the OT. only an idiot would not know that
---francis on 12/6/12


Those that proclaim the name of Christ but derive their doctrinal beliefs from the Old Testament are really the modern day Judaizers.

Poor Adventists frances has to resort to name calling as he really cannnot defend the unique views as proclaimed by Adventism.

Poor blinded soul when will he come into the light and know Christ as his lord and Savior?
---e.lee7537 on 12/6/12


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In order to understand the N.T. you must first understand the Old. I know this is not popular preaching out there. And some of God's preachers are not getting Scriptures correctly. Of course, Satan's preachers, which are a dime-a-dozen. need I say more?
---pat on 12/6/12


1 Corinthians 9:9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain. Is it for oxen that God is concerned?

In this section Paul was defending his apostleship to those who held the OT to be the only scriputre. Howbeit, the New Testament had yet to be completed.

While we do not denouce the truth found in the Old Testament, our doctrinal beliefs should reflect those of the New Covenant and not the Old.

The Old Covenant became obsolete with the New, Hebrews 8:13. So all Adventists hve with unique doctrines is doctrine based on a covenant declared to be obsolete.

Foolish are they.
---e.lee7537 on 12/6/12


The anointed Messiah abolished the old testament ordinances of blood by shedding his blood! 1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances, for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace,Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
---J_Marc on 12/6/12


He calls the question foolish because he cannot escape from the old Testament, which was only a teacher of the New T. for
---Mark_V. on 12/5/12

1 Corinthians 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

Here th apostlepaul quotes from the LAW OF MOSES. Would you asy that paul "because he cannot escape from the old Testament,"

That is why ioc all you an idiot. becaus eover and over again ALL the NT writers quotes the laws written in the books of the OT
---francis on 12/6/12


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francis, I don't have to call you any names. You give proof of who you are and what you have learned through the SDA's. Second, God does the saving. You say,

"Why are you an even bigger idiot? Glad you ask
You deny the power of God/ jesus, the spirit in ME to keep my from sin / trangressing the commandments"


I never said not to use the Old Testament passages. I said we are not under the Old testament covenant, but that it was to be our teacher. And those passages teach just that. The Old Covenant pointed to the New Covenant.
By the way, keep showing what is in your heart, it only give proof of who you are. One thing for sure, you are not sinless. Christ has not kept that from you.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/12


Paul is reputed to have written 13 of the 27 books of the NT, which pretty much makes it his book!
That's why we have "Paulites" and Christians today!
Jesus never quoted from the NT but made much reference to the OT. He sent them ot to "make disciples" without Paul's book!
Except for the gospel record of Christ's life and words, who needs Paul? (Pharisee)
He does not figure in to my salvation!
---st_cliff on 12/5/12


When Paul refers to scripture he is referring to the Old Testament. Surely, you people know that the New Testament wasn't around in his day.
---KarenD on 12/5/12


---Mark_V. on 12/5/12
On this blog, I called you an idiot because you are an idiot. Trying to prove that you cannot use OT verses to form doctrine, you quoted TWO OT verses.
Only an idiot would do that.

Why are you an even bigger idiot? Glad you ask
You deny the power of God/ jesus, the spirit in ME to keep my from sin / trangressing the commandments

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep FRANCIS from falling, and to present FRANCIS faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Even a bigger idIot for dwelling on our carnal nature, AND YOUR FLESH

Me I dwell on 2 Peter 1:4 ye might be partakers of the DIVINE NATURE,
to empower and enable me to keep the commandments
---francis on 12/5/12


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francis, you who claim sinlessness, a keeper of the Law, calling me an idiot? Hello? You gave an Old Covenant passage that teaches that you have to be separated from the Old Covenant law. But you argue for it. You are still under the curse. Trying to work yourself out of the law all by you longsome. I keep telling you, you need Christ to keep the law for you, are you will remain under curse of the Law. Pretty simple. Even you gave the answer right from the Old Covenant, What do you think the writer was teaching? The Old Covenant is a teacher. Hello? It didn't teach you anything.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/12


//Paul alone has the truths for today. He is the only apostle sent to us by God [Ga 2:9].
---Phil on 12/5/12//
So simple, one has to really try, to miss this truth.
---michael_e on 12/5/12


Matthew 5:22 states
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council, and whoever says, You fool! will be liable to the hell of fire."

I'd say that calling someone an IDIOT is the same as calling someone a FOOL.

There appears to be quite a lot of unpleasant name-calling here. Perhaps it's about time it ceased and people were more courteous.

We can disagree without insulting others surely. If not perhaps we should leave and just curl up in a corner somewhere until we can speak decently to one another.
---Rita_H on 12/5/12


Romans 1:17 it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Habbakuk 2:4 the just shall live by his faith.

1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy, for I am holy.
Leviticus 20:7 be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.


Every single NT writer takes from the OT and expounds on it.
James references Rehab and Abraham, revelation has the same beasts as Daniel,
Not one of them come up with a truely original doctrine, every doctrine is taken from the books of the OT

the real shame is that some whoc lal themselves christians, have no idea what the bible says
---francis on 12/5/12


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Folks who base any of their doctrines on the OT are really stating, "Christ didn't really fulfill all the laws given in the OT, so they have to help Him out. For example: if a person wants to us the 10% tithe as a guide - that's fine, but to make it a requirement is not in the NT. But, our doctrines should come from the NT.
---wivv on 12/5/12


Remove Paul's teachings, and the body of Christ disappears from the Book,
---Phil on 12/5/12
Romans 1:17 it is written,
Romans 15:21 it is written,
1 Cor 1:19 it is written,
2 Cor 9:9 it is written,
Gal 3:13 it is written,
Heb 10:7 it is written
Ephesians 6:17 the helmet of salvation,
Col 1:25 the word of God,
1 Thess 2:13 the word of God
1 Tim 5:18 the scripture saith
Titus 2:5 the word of God

Paul is nothing but chapter after chapter, book after book of quotes from the OT

James 2:8 according to the scripture,
1 Peter 2:6 it is contained in the scriptures

the rest are the same
---francis on 12/5/12


Both.

Shalom
---char on 12/5/12


"Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them. "But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for the just shall live by faith" (Gal. 3:10,11).
He has not moved from the Old to the New by faith.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/12
YOU PROVE AGAIN THAT YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!
Deuteronomy 29:21 And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

you quote from THE OLD TESTEMENT trying to prove that we do not have to form doctrine from OT

IDIOT!
Habbakuk 2:4 but the just shall live by his faith.
---francis on 12/5/12


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"Remove Paul's teachings, and the body of Christ disappears from the Book, and you will be under the Law, subject to the Jewish prerogative promised by God." Phil

Your hypothetical theory does not exist and that's because it wasn't God's will that it should happen the way you have prescribed it to be. As Peter declared about Christ, "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you."

What God has purposed, He too has predestined it to come to pass according to "the good pleasure of His will". You think He's affected by what you think? Remember, you're made of dust!
---christan on 12/5/12


"The division of the Holy Writings into two parts is man-made. It is not inspired." Phil

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" 2 Timothy 3:16. What a blasphemer you're proving to be according to the Word!

"We are to learn from scriptures, and rightly partition that which is ours from that which is promised to the Jews."

If the Scriptures according to you is "not inspired" by God, why are you even trying to learn from "man-made" words? Isn't that call hypocrisy?
---christan on 12/5/12


The division of the Holy Writings into two parts is man-made. It is not inspired. This was done to aid in the study and examination of Scriptures

Apart from the Pauline interval, and his commission to us, the nations, it is a Hebrew record from front to back. The Oracles were given to a people chosen of God.

Remove Paul's teachings, and the body of Christ disappears from the Book, and you will be under the Law, subject to the Jewish prerogative promised by God.

We are to learn from scriptures, and rightly partition that which is ours from that which is promised to the Jews.

Paul alone has the truths for today. He is the only apostle sent to us by God [Ga 2:9].
---Phil on 12/5/12


I know many people who have been helped in finding Jesus and accepting Him as Lord of their life after reading Isaiah 53. Some Christians never venture into the old Testament and believe what they believe just because someone else tells them something. We need the old testament now just as much as the people of the time Jesus lived on earth needed it.

To say that a question is foolish is incredibly rude and insensitive. People ask because they desire an answer. Some people cease asking when told they are foolish. We will be responsible for a lost soul if our words stop someone else seeking the truth.
---Rita_H on 12/5/12


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Bro elee, I believe that brother Trey, gave the best explanation, and francis gave the worst. He didn't like it because he is still under the old covenant of laws. He calls the question foolish because he cannot escape from the old Testament, which was only a teacher of the New T. for
"Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them. "But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for the just shall live by faith" (Gal. 3:10,11).
He has not moved from the Old to the New by faith.
---Mark_V. on 12/5/12


I usually look at it this way the NT is our doctrine but OT is our example of what to do and what not to do. For example, sexual immorality is bad, why - David and Bathesba, Tamar and Judah, Leah and Racheal etc. Also, give money to the church, why - stories like the building the tabernacle, building the temple, they gave 10% which is both sacrifical and generous. Tithing is a good, practical discipline to follow. Same is true for dietary laws (eating healthy) and rest (a Sabbath).
---Scott1 on 12/5/12


e.lee, when you read the responses to your blog, please keep in mind:
Mt7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Just a word of encouragement.
---trey on 12/5/12


Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the OLD TESTEMENT daily, whether those things were so.

1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the OLD TESTEMENT and prayer.

the phrases " is it written" "Thus said the lard" " word of God" and the word "scripture" as written in the NT are all referecnes to what we call the OT. Nowhere in the entire word of God has God made a seperation from the writing of what we call the OT and the NT

FOOLISH QUESTION
---francis on 12/4/12


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e.lee, you bring up a wonderful point to discuss. The word testament means covenant.
The Old Testament derives it's name from the covenant God made with the Children of Israel in the wilderness.

The New Testament is the New Covenant (AKA: The Everlasting covenant) revealed unto us through Christ.

Since our God does not change we can learn a lot by studying the old testament. The old testament is our school master to bring us unto Christ, and to reveal unto us that by the law we cannot be justified.
We are no longer under the Old Testament, we are now under the New Testament, therefore tithing, observance of the Sabbath, and dietary laws, etc. are passed away.
---trey on 12/4/12


"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16,17

This admonishment from Paul obviously includes the whole Bible, which is clearly made up of the Old and New Testaments. Which John warns of the consequences if otherwise in Revelation 22:18.19.
---christan on 12/4/12


The ancient Christian hermeneutic is to interpret ALL scripture in the light of the person and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, to Whom be glory.
---Cluny on 12/4/12


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