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Reject God In The End

Is it possible for a Christian to live a Godly life and then turn away from God at the end of their life, die, and end up losing their eternal salvation?

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 ---trey on 12/10/12
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"God is working in both lives by providing the rain" Mark Eaton

Then you have ZERO understanding of what's common grace and special grace.
---christan on 12/17/12


Meaning, God was only working on the last ground, not the other three.
---christan on 12/15/12

I must disagree.

Heb 6:7-8 "For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God, but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned"

God is working in both lives by providing the rain

John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away,and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit"

God is working in both lives by supporting the vine itself
---Mark_Eaton on 12/17/12


Mark_V.,

Basically you can't read.
".....And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."
They were already doing something good in searching the scriptures v.39. Jesus
makes it clear that the scriptures testify of him and logically they should know him.


He also said, "How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?"
Their heart is not right, v42.

"Acts 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God."
If God made (as you lie and say) his heart thus, he would be right before God as anything wrought by him is.
But it was not, was it?
---Nana on 12/17/12


"No matter how much Truth is presented to them they refuse and here is why:" MarkV

More critically to the state of the fallen man who's "dead in trespasses and sin", Jesus declared, "It is the Spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." John 6:63

In short, regeneration (being born of the Spirit) must happen first. Only when regeneration happens, "faith" from God given to the sinner that he/she will believe and go to Jesus Christ. This faith also comes with knowledge, conviction and trust in God's Word - who's the Lord Jesus Christ.
---christan on 12/17/12


"Adam was in the perfect image of God..." francis

Firstly, Scripture doesn't say "perfect image" but simply "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness". Man wasn't made spirit like God is but was made of dust. See the difference?

"Was it God's will that Adam should be lost, so that Jesus would die to save him?"

Most definitely! It was God's plan from eternity or Peter wouldn't say, "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world". Clearly, Christ was the only one the Father was going to glorify. For that to happen, "God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."
---christan on 12/17/12




Nana, great verses you gave, man is not willing to come to Christ,
"John 5:39_40 ".....And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."
The very reason I tell you over and over that God has to change the hearts of the lost. Otherwise they are not willing. "No one seeks after God" (Rom. 3:11).

Then you give"John 5:44 "How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?"
No matter how much Truth is presented to them they refuse and here is why:

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God" (1 Cor. 1:18).
---Mark_V. on 12/17/12


there is a song by kyla roland called "I'm glad I got lost so I could be saved". what it is saying we need to recognize we are lost without hope before we can be saved. if you want to see the true believer, just mention Jesus Christ. people who are lost get nervous with the mention of Jesus Christ. now you can mention God and they will talk to you. try it if you don't believe it.
---shira4368 on 12/16/12


what happened to Adam?
Was Adam Saved, then fell and had to be saved again?

If being saved is having eternal life, did not Adam have eternal life when he was created?

Adam was in the perfect image of God, having no sin, no sentence of death on him. What happened?
Was it God's will that Adam should be lost, so that Jesus would die to save him?

Was Adam ever in need fo a saviour until he turned away from God?
And by whose will did Adam turn away from God?
---francis on 12/16/12


Nana, God bless you man.
But I believe you are missing something.
It's what was said in Joh_6:70!
Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Not only have I chosen you, but I have also chosen a devil.
But that can't be right. Right Nana

Seem you also think God has to test the things he gives.
Like faith, why to make sure it's working?
Not making fun, but in truth!

Some people think they have to be good to get with God.
But there is none good, where is none righteous.

But if you don't believe this, well, then I guess.
You're going to have to keep looking for that good.
Until you find it.

Peace Bro
---TheSeg on 12/16/12


John 5:33_35 "Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light."

John 5:39_40 "Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."

John 5:44 "How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?"

Matthew 7:7 "Ask, and it shall be given you, seek, and you shall find, knock, and it shall be opened to you:"
---Nana on 12/16/12




Jerry, you said to me on another blog,
"The Bible says that Christ came to save "the lost". If predestinaton were correct, then that is impossible, since you must be lost to be saved. Just another example of MarkV's cognitive dissonance, like breaking the law is really obedience to it."
Predestination, means that some from before the foundation of the world were chosen by God to be save. The elect just like all descendants of Adam are born lost in sin. In the beginning they were elected to be save, in time, they will be saved. God will make sure all are saved, (2 Peter 3:8). He is long suffering and patient not willing that any should perish but that all come to repentance"
---Mark_V. on 12/16/12


John 6,

v65, "And he said, Therefore said I unto you..."
Therefore, on that account. Which account?
v64, On account of "But there are some of you that believe not."

So, those leaving left provoked by the saying that " no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." and
the saying that "But there are some of you that believe not." Their faith was called out and exposed so it makes perfect sense that
Jesus would turn to his closest and put their allegiance and faith to the test. Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto
righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

John 5:34,40,42
---Nana on 12/16/12


God created man for His honor and glory and along came satan and messed it all up for all mankind. God repented that He ever made man. satan and his angels was kicked out of heaven and when they got to earth satan wanted man to worship him. I am teasing when I say it but when I get to heaven, I'm gonna put a whipping on eve.
---shira4369 on 12/15/12


"The seed after being planted in us, grows for a while but may be choked out or it may wither. These are the ones that can "fall away"..." Mark Eaton

The parable of the sower speaks about the four different hearts and not the stages of one being a Christian. Of the four, only one was a saved soul. Paul admonishes in Philippians,

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

Meaning, God was only working on the last ground, not the other three.
---christan on 12/15/12


Nana, when I read your post from 12-14-12, it appears that you do not believe in preservation of the saints or as the world calls it "Once Saved Always Saved". It appears that you also believe that the sinner has to hear the gospel and make a personal decision inorder to obtain salvation. Am I correct? I just want to make sure I understand your position.
---trey on 12/15/12


//with the implication that those who left were not welcomed to begin with or that they were meant or destined to leave.//
Implication??

//I repplied with verse 6:67 "Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?" which is very applicable considering Jesus addressed
his 'close' twelve on account of the others leaving.//

What are you implying the Lord had to ask them?
What, just to make sure he had the right guys?

Joh_6:70 Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain:

I'll do the picking around here!

Peace Brothers
---TheSeg on 12/15/12


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There is no passage of scripture declaring Adam's perfection or deathlessness. His life was dependent upon eating of the tree of life in the Garden, where he had unlimited access to everything.

He was created with a weakness. It overcame him when forced to choose between obedience to God's commandment, or cling to the woman he loved.

Without this failure on his part, we would have remained as he was first created, requiring fruit from a tree out of the ground, instead of being alive by the power of God indwelling us by His Spirit.
---Phil on 12/15/12


The seed after being planted in us, grows for a while but may be choked out or it may wither. These are the ones that can "fall away" or as you say, the new life dies in delivery.

However, to the ones who grow to maturity and produce fruit, the Father prunes them so they can produce more fruit and grow even more. These ones will not turn back and will not fall away and the Father will complete the work in them.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/15/12

very well written.

considering scripture in light of scripture, the parallel is clear.
---aka on 12/15/12


what happened to Adam?
Was Adam Saved, then fell and had to be saved again?

If being saved is having eternal life, did not Adam have eternal life when he was created?

Adam was in the perfect image of God, having no sin, no sentence of death on him. What happened?
Was it God's will that Adam should be lost, so that Jesus would die to save him?

Was Adam ever in need fo a saviour until he turned away from God?
And by whose will did Adam turn away from God?
---francis on 12/15/12


trey,

TheSeg only called one verse by number, John 6:66 "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.",
with the implication that those who left were not welcomed to begin with or that they were meant or destined to leave.
I repplied with verse 6:67 "Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?" which is very applicable considering Jesus addressed
his 'close' twelve on account of the others leaving.

You now refer to John5:25 and Gal 5:22 and say, "Conclusion: I have to side with Seg on this round!"
You could just had refered to the ice cream you just ate and say, 'Therefore, being it was vanilla, I have
to disagree with you.'
---Nana on 12/15/12


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Bro. Mark E, thank you for your answer. I agree with everything you said in your last post. I first took it that you didn't. Thanks for making it clear. There is a saying that says,

"There but not there yet" We are their with with Lord in Spirit, the reason we can worship Him in spirit and Truth, where before we couldn't, but yet not completely there, because we have not been glorified yet. peace brother.
---Mark_V. on 12/15/12


Born again is when
"God who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loves "us" (those He is going to bring alive) even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ" by grace you have been saved, and raised up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 4-6).

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, "and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God" not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9).
---Mark_V. on 12/15/12


Hi Seg and Nana, let's look at some scripture:
John5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Here we have a dead man - spiritually. I cannot do anything for him. He is dead. There is one that can bring life - Jesus Christ! He speaks and the dead live. Please not the phrase "The hour is coming and NOW IS"! This is spiritual quickening not the resurrection!

One more:
Gal 5:22 tells us that faith is fruit of the Spirit. In other words, the reason we believe is because the Spirit works on us! Until this happens we cannot come to Christ.

Conclusion: I have to side with Seg on this round!
---trey on 12/15/12


what happened to Adam?
Was Adam Saved, then fell and had to be saved again?

If being saved is having eternal life, did not Adam have eternal life when he was created?

Adam was in the perfect image of God, having no sin, no sentence of death on him. What happened?
Was it God's will that Adam should be lost, so that Jesus would die to save him?

Was Adam ever in need fo a saviour until he turned away from God?
And by whose will did Adam turn away from God?
---francis on 12/15/12


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unborn...no. but, our new life can die in the delivery process. sower of the seed.
---aka on 12/14/12

This is exactly what I believe.

The seed after being planted in us, grows for a while but may be choked out or it may wither. These are the ones that can "fall away" or as you say, the new life dies in delivery.

However, to the ones who grow to maturity and produce fruit, the Father prunes them so they can produce more fruit and grow even more. These ones will not turn back and will not fall away and the Father will complete the work in them.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/15/12


how can we be "unborn" of the Spirit - mark eaton

we can't. but, many assume "born again" starts when the seed is first planted. how can that be? does that mean we are born at conception? no, we are born after we are delivered. likewise, we are born again when we are delivered.

unborn...no. but, our new life can die in the delivery process. sower of the seed.
---aka on 12/14/12


Why do the heathen rage,and the people imagine a vain thing?

The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together,
against the LORD,and against his anointed!

Saying!
Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us!

He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh(HA,HA,HA):
the Lord shall have them in derision!

Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

I will declare the decree:
The LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son,this day have I begotten thee!


The fear of the LORD the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy understanding.
1Jn_4:18
---TheSeg on 12/14/12


"So, why is it so hard to believe it must be given?
Still many say "I believe", I picked God.
And you don't find this laughable?"
TheSeg on 12/13/12

Laughable? Was Jesus laughing when he said, unto the twelve, "Will ye also go away?", John 6:67?
No laughing matter here either,
John 15:1_2 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."

Not laughing when he stated "IN ME"? Does that sound like he refered to an ubeliever, 'in me'?
---Nana on 12/14/12


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do those who are born of the Spirit, go back to been dead in sin again?
---Mark_V. on 12/14/12

You should read my posts.

I do not defend the OSAS doctrine because I do not understand it.

But I do not believe we can lose our salvation either. As you have pointed out, how can we go back to the kingdom of darkness, how can we be "unborn" of the Spirit, how can we be "unadopted" as a son of God? How can we control any of these thing when we did none of these things to begin with? God did them all for us and according to Rom 8:38-39 nothing, including myself, can separate me from the love of God in Christ Jesus my Lord. Nothing.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/14/12


Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away,
A: Tells us that it is possibel to fall away
Hebrews 10:38 if [any man] draw back,

B: tells us that it is posible to draw back.


2 Peter 2:22 The dog is turned to his own vomit again,

C: tells us that it does happen

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

D: tells us what the judgment is for turning back
---francis on 12/14/12


"the passage is warning the converts NOT TO FALL AWAY, because it is possible that christians can fall away" francis

You give mankind too much credit as far as salvation is concerned. Instead of telling us to ONLY trust in God 100% for salvation, you spew words of damnation that the man should only trust in himself or he could lose his salvation. Didn't you read the warning from Paul?

"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us" 2 Corinthians 1:9,10

You're nothing but an unbeliever PRETENDING to be a believer.
---christan on 12/13/12


there is no such thing as free will. there is only the will of God. we either do it or we don't.
---aka on 12/13/12


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So aka, let me see if I understand.
You believe Demas left God.
Does it really say that?

Or is this one way to look at a thing.
Because another way is to believe Demas ever knew God!
And was following a man hand pick by God, but he was not.

Just like
Joh_6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Why? Because!
Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

So, why is it so hard to believe it must be given?
Still many say "I believe", I picked God.
And you don't find this laughable?
What part is not clear?

Peace Bro
---TheSeg on 12/13/12


Bro. Mark E, so my question to you is, do those who are born of the Spirit, go back to been dead in sin again? And if so, please give book, passage and chapter.
You see brother once a person is born of God, nowhere that I know in Scripture are we told they go back to been dead because of their lack of works or because they sinned. If that was the case, and a person lost his salvation, that would mean his salvation was of merits, their own merits. And we are not saved by our own merits, but by the grace of God through faith. You are speaking of a salvation by works of the Law. And no one can be save by the works of the law, the very reason we need Christ. I don't know why you do not see this.
---Mark_V. on 12/14/12


Hebrews 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers [is] rejected, and [is] nigh unto cursing, whose end [is] to be burned.

Hebrews 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

"we are persuaded better things of you," Better than what?
Better than to fall away, better than to bear thorns and briers be rejected, and cursed and burned. Although we speak about falling away

the passage is warning the converts NOT TO FALL AWAY, because it is possible that christians can fall away
---francis on 12/13/12


How right you are TheSeg. These hypocrites are lovers of their own "free-will" instead of God. Scripture declares:

"God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord." 1 Corinthians 1:9 and "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it." 1 Thessalonians 5:23,24

Aren't these assurance of His gracious work? Yet, these "free-willers" say the man can "fall-away"? Wow, some "free-will" they have to overpower the work of God. Only in their deluded minds.
---christan on 12/13/12


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Let me tell you something, not think, know!

2Ti 4:10 For Demas, in love with this present world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica...

one cannot love this world and walk towards God.

Jas_4:4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Every knee will bow, but not every knee can be in God's eternal presence.

Sorry. i am not laughing at you or with you. i don't think this is a laughing matter.
---aka on 12/13/12


Nicely put Mark Eaton, nicely!
---Nana on 12/13/12


How many there are that believe a man, who knows God, can turn away.
Thinking about it makes me laugh. How can you think someone would or could? From God, the creator!
Is it possible you have not tasted of the heavenly gift or made partakers of the Holy Ghost?

That like making a cabinet and it doesn't work. Right!
So, I tell the customer. Hey I'm sorry, but there nothing I can do!

I'm not laughing at you, believe me. I am laughing with you.
You just can't see me.

Let me tell you something, not think, know!
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Brothers!
---TheSeg on 12/13/12


The writer of Hebrews is firm when he wrote "FOR IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened..", which means to say that when an elect is saved by grace through faith in Christ,
---christan on 12/12/12

Everyone who uses this passage to prove that saints fall away omits its closing verse:

Heb 6:8 "but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned"

This comparison takes us right back to the Parable of the Sower in Luke 8. This persons life is just like Jesus said, the cares of life choke out the Word, the enlightenment, the heavenly gift, the partaking of the Spirit, before they grow to maturity and bear fruit.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/13/12


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Hebrews 6:1-6

Says to us that:
1: People who are " saved." Can fall away

2: It is imposible for one to fall away and return to the church and continue as if nothing happened

When one falls away and returns, they have to go back and lay down the foundations again of repentance from dead works, of faith toward God, e doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment

AND WE KNOW THAT BECAUSE WE ARE ALWAYS REBAPTIZING BACKSLIDERS
---francis on 12/13/12


But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul" The writer was talking about, himself and other believers, not the unbelievers he was speaking to.

---Mark_V. on 12/13/12


A few verses later he tell the same believers:

" Therefore do not throw away your confidence , which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that you may do the will of God and receive what is promised. '(heb 35-36)
---Ruben on 12/13/12


John 15:4_6 "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine, no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered, and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."


Man's part:
Abide in me
abide in the vine
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch
If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you

Christ's part:
I in you
Will Christ be in you if you abide not in him and his word?

John 8:29
---Nana on 12/13/12


"The writer of Hebrews is firm when he wrote "FOR IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened..", which means to say that when an elect is saved by grace through faith in Christ, it's IMPOSSIBLE for him/her to even "fall away".---christan on 12/12/12

It says the exact opposite.

Hb 6:4 for it is impossible for those once enlightened...
and having fallen away, again to renew them to reformation.

Additionally, the body of Christ is not the subject here. No mention of us can be found in this letter.

It concerns the Jews of the Pentecostal period under the leadership of the Twelve Apostles.

Rightly divide the word.
---Phil on 12/13/12


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i don't know about eternal destiny, but Demas turned away.

what does scripture say about tuning away from God?

2Ti 4:10 For Demas, in love with this present world, has deserted me and gone to Thessalonica...

what does scripture say about loving the present world?

1Jn 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16...1Jn 2:17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

there is no such thing as free will. there is only the will of God. we do it or we don't.
---aka on 12/13/12


"Is it possible for a Christian to live a Godly life and then turn away from God at the end of their life, die, and end up losing their eternal salvation?"
No. "Salvation is of the LORD."
---josef on 12/13/12


You know the bible says, and Christ said it also, we should always pray!
Now I cannot say I always pray, because I tell you the truth, I don't know what I should pray for.

I know this also this, you cannot look at me and say now that's a religious man!
Much less do I care what people have to say they believe the bible is saying.
Sorry but true!

Most of you have no idea what it is saying!
But, when I read the things christan write, I ask God why they can't believe.
He says what he always says:

All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given!

Dido!
That's why the "free-will" theology is in error.
Peace
---TheSeg on 12/13/12


Bro. Mark E, your correct the Bible uses salvation in the past, present and future, depending on context. Hebrews, addresses three kinds of people, Jewish believers, Jew's who heard the gospel but have not yet committed their lives to Christ, and Jewish unbelievers. When the passage at the end of (Heb. 10:29) says,
"But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul" The writer was talking about, himself and other believers, not the unbelievers he was speaking to.
When a person is born of the Spirit now, spiritually he is already a part of the body of Christ. And nowhere are we told those born of the Spirit, die again. We are forever connected to the Lord by Love.
---Mark_V. on 12/13/12


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"The reason people "fall away" is unbelief and an evil heart." MarkEaton

The writer of Hebrews is firm when he wrote "FOR IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened..", which means to say that when an elect is saved by grace through faith in Christ, it's IMPOSSIBLE for him/her to even "fall away".

"Falling away" is only a confirmation that he/she was never even given to Christ by the Father. If one can "fall away", Jesus lying when He declared, ""All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37

That's why the "free-will" theology is in error.
---christan on 12/12/12


Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being NOW JUSTIFIED by his blood, we SHALL BESAVED from wrath through him.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

salvation is truely a future event when we shall be saved from the second death. Some may say that we are in the process of being saved. I can accept that

Romans 13:11 for now is our salvation NEARER than when we believed.

If it is NEARER then we do not yet have it
We may claim it by faith, since it is a promise of God
---francis on 12/12/12


Shira, I agree with you 100%. I believe with all my heart you are correct!

Here are the scriptures I hang on to:
John 6:37-40
John 10:27-30 (You quoted that!)
Mal 3:6 (Sons of Jacob - Jacob is a picture of the beloved family of God consisting of Jews and Gentiles.)
1 Peter 1:3-5 says we are kept by the power of God.
Jude 1 says we are preserved in Jesus Christ!
Ps 37:28 says the saints are preserved forever.
Ps 94:14 The Lord will not cast off his people(meaning his family members)! I love that.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Lord bless you and your family.
---trey on 12/12/12


mark eaton and francis. my salvation is forever and ever. I have eternal life and no one can pluck me out of God's hands.
---shira4368 on 12/12/12


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The problem here lies mainly with the idea of TIME of salvation, Is the idea that people cannot turn away is based on the false doctring of once saved always saved
---francis on 12/12/12

Your points are valid.

I know nothing of the OSAS doctrine nor do I wish to know it. My knowledge is only Scripture, not theology.

The timing of salvation is shown in Scripture as past, present, and future. If we look at salvation only from the future perspective, then no one today can be saved. If we look at it from only the past perspective, then everyone having confessed Jesus is saved. Because we live only in the present, all we can say of salvation for today is that we need to make our calling and election sure.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/12/12


In the strictest sense, yes.

In the Scriptures, the Lord's disciples were called "Christians" as a label, and is always used negatively. Ac 11:26 Ac 26:28 1Pt 4:16.

Hebrews 6:4-8, a letter written to His earthly ecclesia, states that some Jews already had lost their salvation, and cautions the rest about the ramifications.

The body of Christ is a spiritual organism. It is foreknown, called, justified, and glorified by God the Father Himself. It is not a part of His earthly Kingdom to come. Those who compose it cannot loose their salvation, they are kept by God.

There are unsaved among the elect, and yet act like they are saved. Such may have believed feignedly. They are not members, yet dwell among us.
---Phil on 12/12/12


be aware that not one single verse of scripture is written to unbelievers. those in hebrews are believers who are advised
---francis on 12/12/12

Where is that written? BCV please.

Hebrews is written to:

Heb 1:2 "in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world".

Who is the us in the verse? Believers? Jews? The Churches? The world?

I believe your opinion is based upon Scripture such as this but would be reading into the verse:

1 Cor 2:14 "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned"
---Mark_Eaton on 12/12/12


Is it possible for a Christian to live a Godly life and then turn away from God at the end of their life, die, and end up losing their eternal salvation?

what about demas? do you think his three appearences are incidental?

i do not know his eternal destiny but many live a Godly life and are turned away. nobody has eternal life until it is given. it says so in scripture.
---aka on 12/12/12


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Mark_Eaton be aware that notone single verse of scripture is written to unbelievers. those in hebrews are believers who are advised

not to draw back or rather turn away from god

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man DRAW BACK, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who DRAW BACK unto perdition, but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
---francis on 12/12/12


Or perhaps they never were saved.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/11/12
The problem here lies mainly with the idea of TIME of salvation,

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Romans 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Romans 13:11 for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Is the idea that people cannot turn away is based on the false doctring of once saved always saved
---francis on 12/12/12


Hebrews 6:4
---francis on 12/11/12

Perhaps you missed these verses in your study of Hebrews:

Heb 3:12-14 "Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called Today, so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end"

The reason people "fall away" is unbelief and an evil heart. And just as in the parable of the sower, only the one who matures and bears fruit is a partaker of Christ.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/12/12


Yet he ultimately rejected Jesus and as far as we can tell this side of heaven, died unrepentant.
Cluny on 12/11/12

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.


Is it possible for a Christian to live a Godly life.
I guess some believe they can.
Peace
---TheSeg on 12/12/12


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Bro. Trey, if a person doesn't believe Jesus Christ will sustain them, then they have no faith in Jesus Christ, and not saved. Our faith is in Christ Jesus.
"..So that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift" God gives us faith with all other gifts we will need, "as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, "who will sustain you to the end," guiltless in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ.."
(1 Cor. 1:7-9).
The reason people believe they lose salvation is because they believe their works saved them by their free will, so their works can undo that salvation. If they believed in came from God, they would have no problem. they would be putting their faith in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/12/12


There's a huge gulf between those who say they are saved because of their "free-will" and those who acknowledge that it is only the "power of God" that they are able to believe Him.

More importantly through their conversation. For Christ said, "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Only a true Christian who has God's Spirit in him, will know.

The keywords to Hebrews 6:4-6 is "For it is IMPOSSIBLE for those", the "those" refers to them that's "justified by faith". One cannot be "justified" by God and then lose their salvation. IMPOSSIBLE.
---christan on 12/11/12


--Mark_Eaton on 12/11/12
2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the HEAVENLY GIFT, and were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST,

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


---francis on 12/11/12


"Did He drive Judas away from the table at the Mystical Supper?" Cluny

Why would Christ drive Judas away from the table if God had already predestined him to betray the Son? As Christ prayed to the Father, He said, "and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled".

So you see, the prophesy of the son of perdition must come to past that Christ will be betrayed (see Psalm 41:9 & 109:7,8). And that's because the Father had already purposed it to happen from eternity.

"yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it" Isaiah 46:11
---christan on 12/11/12


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Can't get more "saved" than that!!
and YET the fall away
---francis on 12/11/12

Or perhaps they never were saved.

Luke 8 teaches the Parable of the Sower, an illustration of how the Word of God grows in the life of a person.

There are four soils or people described. The Word of God grows in three of the four people but only one of the four grows to maturity and bears fruit. This one we would say is truly saved.

Therefore, in our view did two "fall away" or were they never saved?
---Mark_Eaton on 12/11/12


John 10:27 - MY sheep hear my voice, and I Know Them, and they follow Me,
10,28 - AND I give unto them eternal Life, and they shall never perish neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
10:29 - MY father which gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my father's hand.
---RICHARDC on 12/11/12


Here is a group of people who by all acounts " have been saved"

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once ENLIGHTENED, and have TASTED ON THE HEAVENLY GIFT, and were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST,

Hebrews 6:5 And have TASTED OF THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, and the POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COM,

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.


1: ENLIGHTENED,
2: TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT,
3: PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST,
4: TASTED OF THE GOOD WORD OF GOD,
5: POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME,

Can't get more "saved" than that!!

and YET the fall away
---francis on 12/11/12


For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature,
---christan on 12/10/12

Tell me chriistan which two groups would a born-again believer have control of:

1)neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present.Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature!

2)neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
---Ruben on 12/11/12


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Consider Judas Iscariot.

Was he not just as called by Christ Himself was were the other 11? Did the Lord refuse him the gift of working miracles when they were sent out 2 by 2? Did He drive Judas away from the table at the Mystical Supper?

Yet he ultimately rejected Jesus and as far as we can tell this side of heaven, died unrepentant.

Think about it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/11/12


Is it possible for a Christian to live a Godly life and then turn away from God at the end of their life, die, and end up losing their eternal salvation?
---trey on 12/10/12

Hebrews 6:4 For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.
---francis on 12/11/12


"many live a Godly life and are turned away. nobody has eternal life until it is given." aka

1. "live a Godly life" without Faith from God in Christ is useless as it does not please Him. Even the Jews who rejected Christ will tell you they lived a "Godly life".

2. "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3, "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." 1 John 5:20
---christan on 12/11/12


"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith", interesting verse from Paul. However it does not imply that a Christian who's been justified by faith from God will ever "depart from the faith". Paul simply refers to those who "claim" to be a Christian but in all truth were never even justified by faith in the sight of God.

For anyone who's been justified by God will never do what Paul mentioned in verses 1 to 3 of 1 Timothy 4. Meaning the "confession of faith" was only proven to be a false confession. For he never received the "gift of faith" that's from God.
---christan on 12/11/12


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1st Tim.4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron,

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
---j_Marc on 12/11/12


many live a Godly life and are turned away. nobody has eternal life until it is given.
---aka on 12/10/12


IMPOSSIBLE!

And that's because a Christian is a "product" of God's love in Jesus Christ. It's explicitly taught in Romans 8:35,38-39

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD, WHICH IS CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD."


Being able to live a Godly life 100% for the Christian is another issue altogether.
---christan on 12/10/12


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