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Does God Save Sinners

Does God really save sinners? Most people believe that God does save them, only if they let Him. What does Scripture say?

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 ---Mark_V. on 12/11/12
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Of'course, No one else can.
What scripture says...

1).

God Calls Israel-Chosen/Elect-
As Witness that He is (Exist-I AM).

Is 42(all) Behold my servant, whom I uphold...

(Mine Elect)...

in whom my soul delighteth,I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

As we read the Word of God we witness Gods love in forgiveness through/by and With/In His Son: Y'sha-Jesus Christ, Word of God in Flesh, Immanuel-God with us

Num13:16Jn1:1-14,Matt1:1-25
Is 42,43,44,45(all),Num2(all)

Are all Jacob?...Judah?...
No.

He is (Exist)- a God of order-Yet- He declares-All things-At once.

Continued'
---char on 12/17/12


Mark_V.,

You have made a God which is unreachable just like the God which was presented to new converts by those to whom Jesus said,
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye
make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.", Matthew 23:15

I presented two verses where God was counseling man, Genesis 4:7 and Isaiah 1:17.
That is the relationship God has with his creature, that of a Father, even to us who were once alienated
without promise.He nourishes and understands that no one is born knowing so he raises them up, Isaiah 1:2.

The God you present must be the god of the moon for you present a lunatic!
---Nana on 12/17/12


Willie, do you know the song, "Just as I am"? That's the thing, we come to God Just as we are, "horrible sinners", and by that we put our faith in the one who can wash our sin away and make us clean and a New Creature in Christ.

An old person KNOWS they have wrinkles. People cannot take away their own wrinkles. But when they hear of someone who can, then they out their faith, trust in that one who can.

You're not made wrinkle free, and THEN believe in one who can take them away...WHY! Faith in someone is not necessary if the miracle is already done.
---kathr4453 on 12/17/12


"You don't like the plan, complain to God, all I do is write it down for you."
---Mark_V. on 12/17/12

MarkV, you don't need to write anything down for anyone. We don't live by second hand knowledge passing through your sinful mind.

Truth comes to us through the Holy Spirit who is not brainwashed first by man, or sinful fallen man.

Remember you are not God, are not all knowing, and do not have totaly authority over the Word of God.

Be careful how you build upon the foundation Paul laid. EACH PERSON is responsible for how they build upon the foundation, and each person will be rewarded individually.
---kathr4453 on 12/17/12


Gordon, you do not understand. you say,
"Mark V., Why would GOD "allow" Abortion and have it be "HIS Will" since, as YOU say, "no human being has free-will" and still declare that HE HATES Abortion?"
God allows all sin to continue. He knew it would happen, and while it is man's evil that causes it, He knew how far He would let it go. All sin is restrain by God. No sin goes further then He allows are permits. If things were happening without Him allowing it or permitting it, He would not be Omnipotent God. Having all power. And He would not know what happens next. Yet God is also Omniscient knowing all things. But you do not want to believe in the God of the Bible. Our God is in control.
---Mark_V. on 12/17/12




Nana, you said,
"If God has a 'plan', it is clear that he expects man to "learn to do well" and do good."

God plan is complete before His eyes already. He does not expect something that is not in His plan. God is outside of time.
When an architect plans a plan for a building, he might miss somthing that has to be corrected. When the God of the Bible made His plan, it was perfect, For He is perfect. He missed nothing.
The mere fact that God fore-saw the fall of man is sufficient proof that He did not expect man to glorify Him by continuing in a state of holiness. He was
"foreknown indeed as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20).
---Mark_V. on 12/17/12


"You don't like the plan, complain to God, all I do is write it down for you."
---Mark_V. on 12/17/12

God said this to Cain before he killed his brother, "Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door."
"What hast thou done?", said God thereafter.

Isaiah 1:17 "Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."

If God has a 'plan', it is clear that he expects man to "learn to do well" and do good.

Now, be careful how you read, attribute to God and assign your stance and duties as you may end up like Jim Jones!
---Nana on 12/17/12


Mark V., Why would GOD "allow" Abortion and have it be "HIS Will" since, as YOU say, "no human being has free-will" and still declare that HE HATES Abortion? (Or do you not believe that GOD opposes Abortion?) HE alone can command the slaughtering of peoples because HE's GOD, and the peoples were WICKED, and their children were ALSO considered "unclean" and all had to be eradicated. But, HE detested, at the same time, the 'sacrificing of babies unto Molech', Remember?? So, there's a difference 'tween GOD slaughtering a peoples, opposed to GOD "allowing" people to butcher unborn babies. Yet, YOU say it's all ultimately "GOD's Will" since individual people do not have free-will choice.
---Gordon on 12/17/12


cluny,
"sounds just like the Publican , which means he is not justified at all."

WHAT? i humbly think you really wanted to call me a Pharisee!

Read the account for yourself!

Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased, and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
---J-Marc on 12/17/12


Jerry6593, Thank you for the kind words. 'Though Mark errors in his belief about "Predestination", he is correct about Eternal Damnation. The Book of Revelation is clear that the Lake of Fire will be burning Forever and Ever. Smoke is produced by Fire, and if there will be a continual Smoke that is ascending up Forever and Ever, then, there (logically) will be a Fire that'll be continually burning Forever and Ever to produce that Smoke.
---Gordon on 12/17/12




Paul said to the Jews who refused "the word of God" > in Acts 13:46 > "you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life" > so, it looks like he is saying they made their own personal choice and judged their own selves "unworthy of everlasting life".

But were they free? Paul says, "But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered." (Romans 6:17)

So, what they did was in slavery to Satan, with hearts "desperately wicked" (Jeremiah 17:9). So, did they change their own hearts to become obedient, or is the "thanks" "to God"?
---willie_c: on 12/17/12


Cluny, in the the name of Yashua [ the real Christ],stop your attacks.

i will never recant!

i NEVER wrote or implied that i was on a spiritual level with any one!

i am most certainly the least of all humanity!

my opinion does not count! God's [YA's]does!

i humbly used the EXAMPLE of Nehemiah, sorry i was misinterpreted !

i & my fathers were guilty of theses sins & i repented! i hope every one does!

>Nehemiah 9:2 And the seed of Israel separated themselves from all strangers, and stood and confessed their sins, and the iniquities of their fathers.
---JMarc on 12/17/12


\\StrongAxe, i humbly used the example of Nehemiah's public confession, sorry i was misinterpreted !\\

You're not on the spiritual level of Nehemiah, J_Marc.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/17/12


Gordon: I applaud your reasoning with MarkV that his religion teaches that it was God's fault that those chridren were murdered. I is also a doctrine MarkV's religion that his cruel god intentionally created billions of his own children for the SOLE purpose of turturing them forever with fire. That makes God a bigger monster than that sicko baby killer.


---jerry6593 on 12/17/12


Gordon, nothing happens without God allowing or permitting it to happen, nothing. There is no event that God does not know that is not accounted for in His plan. You complained of who's will it was concerning the kids, to somehow proof God would never allow such thing. Yet I gave you passages where God Himself or by His own command had many children killed. I don't know why God allowed the incident to happen, but He did. He could stop anything, and does when it is not in His plan. No one can stay His hand. Sin is permitted by God to continue, He permits satan to continue to a certain extend, as far as God allows him. You don't like the plan, complain to God, all I do is write it down for you.
---Mark_V. on 12/17/12


Sis. Shira, many will never accept the Truth. God did not give free will to anyone, it is not found in Scripture. They have a choice, but the choice they make is motived by what they love, their will is in bondage to sin, and the lost do not love God. They will never choose Christ unless God changes their hearts.
I don't know why people are shocked concerning the children murdered. If adults today believe it's ok to kill an unborn, pull the head out and suck the brains out with a vacumn, why are people shocked? Millions of lifes each year. Doctors who make a commitment to save lives, kill them. The children killed in Connecticut had a chance to live a few years while the unborn was never given a chance. It does not surprise me, it angers me.
---Mark_V. on 12/17/12


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"J_Marc, sounds just like the Publican in Your Son's parable, which means he is not justified at all."

WHAT? i humbly think you really wanted to call me a Pharisee!

Read the account for yourself!

Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased, and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
---JMarc on 12/17/12


God gave us free will and the abortions are done by men who choose to do that. I wouldn't want the blood of thousands of babies on my hands. the whole world is in a state of decay since madilyn ohare won a one woman campagne to get prayer out of schools. what do we really expect...there is no value on human life. markv, you are under scrutiny and I like your post but still don't understand your position on the "elect".
---shira4368 on 12/16/12


Romans 8:29 - FOR whom he did foreknow,- he also did predestinated - TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON' that he might be first born among many brethren.
( GOD Foreknowing who was going to believes seems to not fly with this verse? IF God Predestinated people to conform - are they not the one's God Predestinated to Believe? )
---RICHARDC on 12/16/12


Mark V, Who's choice was it, then, to murder those 20 kindergarteners?? Who's choice is it to have millions of babies aborted each year?? You cannot have it both ways, Mark. Either GOD "willed it all" or HE didn't! So, are you saying that since GOD has allowed millions of babies to be aborted, that, it's all "HIS Will"?? Either GOD orchestrated it all or HE "allowed" it (which, yes, HE did allow it) but, does that mean that it was all HIS "Will"??? These questions are bothersome to you, Mark, because they poke holes in your theology.
---Gordon on 12/16/12


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In "Is Spanking In The USA Popular" blog see Mark_V. there stating that all this vandalism and evil can be stopped
by discipline!

Bipolar Disorder?
" Notice that most of the killings in the mall's, movies, schools are done by kids who are in their late teens and early twenties. What I see most of all is there is no respect for parents or adults anymore."
"We need to get back to discipline. I guess parents are too busy working so much, their kids are on their own most of the time."
---Mark_V. on12/15/12

Agree with kathr4453 and Gordon here. Mark_V. hopefully gets mental health intervention soon. After all, how else would one execute, "... and with all thy mind." without one?
---Nana on 12/16/12


The sovereign will of God declares HE WON, that is HE WON victory over death and hell, and we can put our faith in the one WHO WON. And we too know there will be a New heaven and earth, and we know the old will pass away. We know these things, because God has told us so, and we place our faith in the one who can give us that victory IN CHRIST over death and this old fallen creation.

However, when it comes to individual people YOU SAY God created for evil, and to do evil YOU ARE WRONG MARKV.

Satan entered Judas for a PURPOSE, already fortold. THAT PURPOSE had a plan of VICTORY OVER DEATH AND HELL. This is God's WILL.

The shootings this last week has no VICTORY over anything. To try and make them the same is EVIL!
---kathr4453 on 12/16/12


Gordon, you read the word of God, (Dan. 4:35, Eph. 1:11). And when the Bible speaks of the sovereign right of God you reject it. It makes no sense to you, and you refuse to believe it. So like 1Cliff you come out asking all these questions. I ask you, is there any difference between the children killed in Connecticut and the children who died during the passover? they were the first borns, what wrong did they do? And how about all the slaughter God commanded on the children of the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites? They didn't do anything wrong, they were children. God ordered that slaughter. I'm not saying God ordered the killing of this children, but permitted sin to take its course. He could have stopped it.
---Mark_V. on 12/16/12


StrongAxe, i humbly used the example of Nehemiah's public confession, sorry i was misinterpreted !

i & my fathers were guilty of theses sins & i repented! i hope every one does!

Nehemiah!1:6 Let thine ear now be attentive, and thine eyes open, that thou mayest hear the prayer of thy servant, which I pray before thee now, day and night, for the children of Israel thy servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel, which we have sinned against thee: both I and my father's house have sinned.

9:2 And the seed of Israel separated themselves from all strangers, and stood and confessed their sins, and the iniquities of their fathers.
---J-marc on 12/16/12


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Strongaxe,"a long prayer confession. Why did you do this?"

Scripture commands public sin needs public prayer!

James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Acts 19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus, and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.
---J-marc on 12/16/12


J_Marc:

On several different blogs, you posted a long prayer confession. Why did you do this?

If you're honestly confessing to God, your prayer should be in secret and not vainly repetitive (Matthew 6:6-7). If, however, you're saying this to make a point, it's not prayer at all, and it's deceptive and insincere to make it look like one.

Just like those who chastise and preach at the dinner table under guise of prayer, e.g. "Lord, please forgive my brother for bis gluttony and worldliness", etc.
---StrongAxe on 12/15/12


\\Our Father in Heaven,

i confess the sins of my Fathers and me, we had other gods by worshiped ourselves and our churches rather than You.\\

We likewise confess the sins of J_Marc, especially how much he sounds just like the Publican in Your Son's parable, which, alas, means he is not justified at all.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/15/12


Mark V, Was it GOD's Will that 20 kindergartener children get gunned down? And, is it GOD's Will that millions of babies get butchered in their mothers' wombs by the act of Abortion every year?? Are these actions also "GOD's Will" or do people have a choice in these matters? Do people have freedom to choose between Good and Evil??
---Gordon on 12/15/12


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Trey, Was it really GOD's "Will" that Lucifer and his angels should rebel against GOD and end up becoming the evil Satan who wreaks Death and Destruction onto GOD's Creation of humanity? OR, did Lucifer have a "choice" to rebel against GOD?? Why would a "GOD of Love" deliberately create any human being just for the sole purpose of damning them into a burning, hot Lake of Fire for all Eternity, just because "HE can"? That is, without giving those souls a choice in the matter? Is THAT really a GOD of "Love"?? Would not a "GOD of Love" give people the choice, and then, if they choose Death and Hell with their Sin, let them have what they choose??
---Gordon on 12/15/12


---Mark_Eaton on 12/15/12

The Scriptures are implicit, Satan entered Judas, and influenced him.

This betrayal was necessary and could not be accomplished by mere minions of the enemy. It required the entrance of the god of this world himself, no other spirits being capable of persuading Judas to act contrary to his nature.

God's will cannot be averted. And in the course of this display, Satan himself was used to align circumstances to fulfill prophecy.

Judas died in his sins. However, his sin will not prevent his being made alive in Christ.

1C 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

The how and when of this justification is another topic.
---Phil on 12/15/12


I believe Judas was given over to the idol of money ...I do not believe the devil can enter into a Believer in Christ.---Mark_Eaton on 12/15/12
I agree with you.

But the assessment that idolatry was the impetus behind the betrayal is repudiated by Satan's role in the affair. A malignancy beyond what Judas retained in himself was required.

Suicide does not bar one from redemption in Christ, no more than another sin. God has condemned all flesh.

Judas' justification is based upon this passage, among others.

Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself, by him, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
---Phil on 12/15/12


Kathr, You have no clue who Jesus Christ is, the reason you asked me,

"Where is your scripture MarkV that everything God wills happens?
God's WILL is all wrapped up in Jesus Christ.
Or did you fail to understand that?"


Kathr, for your information, God is Jesus Christ.

"He doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand" (Dan. 4:35).
The cause of all things is the will of God. If that is not enough,
The New Testament tells us that God "Worketh all things after the counsel of His own will" (Eph. 1:11).
---Mark_V. on 12/15/12


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Let's remember too MarkV that God also said in His Word:

God is not "WILLING" that any to perish.

Now I know you explain that away by saying "OH He's talkng about the elect"".

But reading all scripture before and after,... READ AGAIN MARKV. On what basis of verses before and after do you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt He's talking only about those he already presaved?

I'm so sad you have been deceived. Even sadder you believe yourself to be one of the elect based on Romans 9.
---kathr4453 on 12/15/12


The Bible says that Christ came to save "the lost". If predestinaton were correct, then that is impossible, since you must be lost to be saved. Just another example of MarkV's cognitive dissonance, like breaking the law is really obedience to it.


---jerry6593 on 12/15/12


Hi Kathr, Sorry, I can't help but respond to your statement to MarkV. MarkV, please forgive me brother for butting in.

Da4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Isa46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Mt8:27 But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!

I'm sorry Kathr, what were you saying about all that God wills does not happen?
---trey on 12/15/12


Judas repented of his deed. He was a tool in God's hand. He, like all men, shall be made alive in Christ.
---Phil on 12/14/12

If Judas repented of his sin in betraying Jesus, and was justified, then he was still unjustified because he went out and committed another sin by hanging himself. He committed the sin of murder, self-murder.

Judas was interested in money. We see in various passages and in the fact that He was given money for his false testimony of Jesus. I believe Judas was given over to the idol of money.

I do not believe the devil can enter into a Believer in Christ. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit as a promise to Jesus and I believe that sealing prevents the devil and demons from entering into us.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/15/12


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Where is your scripture MarkV that everything God wills happens?

God's WILL is all wrapped up in Jesus Christ. Or did you fail to understand that?

Jesus came to do God's WILL, that is die for the sin of man.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/12


Kathr, you said,

"it depends on what you believe "God's will" is? Is it a power that cannot be resisted? It is, for no one can stay His hand. No one.

"It's my will aka desire that my children, grandchildren and greatgrandchildren all be saved,"

When you will Kathr, it does not always happen, When God wills something, it always happens.
Then you said,
"but it is still up to each of tehm to make that decision to believe and OBEY teh Gospel"
No its not, it is up to God to save them by grace through faith. Not of works so that no one can boast. The decision is God's.
---Mark_V. on 12/14/12


Maybe we should OBEY Romans 10 and just be those beautiful feet that preach the Gospel that Jesus died for our sin, and rose again for our justification, and let people HEAR and let God do what He does from there, instead of spending endless hours of this and that, not preaching the Gospel at all, but one's own doctrine about salvation.

No one ever got saved hearing Markv or Christan babel on here about their understanding of God.

---kathr4453 on 12/14/12


Yet Judas did not believe.---Mark_Eaton on 12/13/12

I question that proposition.

Lk 22:3 Yet Satan entered into Judas, called Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Mt 27:4 I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood.

Mt 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Had not Satan entered into the man, he would not have committed his offense. God caused him to betray his Lord, in order to fulfill prophecy [Jn 13:18].

Pharaoh, too, would have let Israel go, had not God hardened his heart, in order to fulfill His will.

Judas repented of his deed. He was a tool in God's hand. He, like all men, shall be made alive in Christ.
---Phil on 12/14/12


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If it's "God's will that no one be lost" according to you, and hell will be filled, God must have failed miserably to save everyone, which cannot be, since He's Almighty.
---christan on 12/14/12

I do not understand why you want to make this difficult. Whenever I see someone making obvious things difficult is it usually to protect a prejudice they have.

Take your reply. I loosely quoted 2 Peter 3:9 when I said it is God's will that no one be lost. Yet your reaction to it seems excessive and sarcastic. Of course God can do anything including eliminating death, sin, the entire human condition, and the curse on Earth.

Yet God does not, yet. And while these things are still with us, people are still being lost.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/14/12


Was it God's will that Adam, and Eve should sin?
---francis on 12/14/12


CHRISTAN and Kathr, What Kathr said is exactly correct. And, I testified about this to you earlier, Christan, that, the word "Will" as in "GOD's Will" can also mean "GOD's Desire". This doctrine of "pre-destination" is being "t-W-i-S-t-E-d" by certain one's who base their beliefs about "GOD's Salvation in relation to mankind as a whole" on this misuse or half-use of the meaning of the word "Will". Mankind was created with FREE-WILL, and no twisting of GOD's Words will change that. GOD DESIRES that none perish. But, people have to choose GOD, each one for themselves, as GOD gives each one the Choice. As HE has given ALL a Choice, at one time or another.
---Gordon on 12/14/12


"Most people believe that God does save them, only if they let Him. What does Scripture say?"

Eph.1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having PREDESTINATED us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace,

8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
---j_Marc on 12/14/12


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God must have failed miserably to save everyone, which cannot be, since He's Almighty.
---christan on 12/14/12
Why was god not able to save Adam from sinning.

Everything eveil, every pain, even the pain of Jesus on the cross was the direct result of the sin of Adam.

Was it God's will that Adam sin,a nd the world be plundged into pain, and suffering?

Or did God only enact his will after Adam sinned?
---francis on 12/14/12


Kathr no 12/14/12 - Decision To Believe

Your using Romans 10:9 -

The Question - How can a unsave person Believe in There HEART - unless God Changes There Heart . Then a person can believe with there heart - The unsave Person HEART is deceitful and can not be trusted .

Jeremiah 17:10 THE Heart is deceitful above all things and Desperately wicked

-
. .
Romans 10:10 FOR with the Heart man Believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation .
---RICHARDC on 12/14/12


If it's "God's will that no one be lost" according to you, and hell will be filled, God must have failed miserably to save everyone, which cannot be, since He's Almighty.
---christan on 12/14/12


it depends on what you believe "God's will" is? Is it a power that cannot be resisted?

It's my will aka desire that my children, grandchildren and greatgrandchildren all be saved, but it is still up to each of tehm to make that decision to believe and OBEY teh Gospel.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/12


Mark Eaton, unbelievers go to hell. Yes or no?. A place called the Lake of Fire has been prepared for unbelievers, whose will do you think it is that it even exist when Christ return to judge the world? Not God's will?

Funny, John declared, "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." Revelation 4:11. Doesn't sound like there's an exception to this proclamation, so "all things" MUST include hell, right?

If it's "God's will that no one be lost" according to you, and hell will be filled, God must have failed miserably to save everyone, which cannot be, since He's Almighty.
---christan on 12/14/12


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9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel
---kathr4453 on 12/14/12


ROMANS 9:11 - FOR the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that called.

9,13 - AS it is written Jacob have I love but Esau I have Hated.

9:17 - FOR the Scriptures saith unto Pharaoh, EVEN For This Purpose have I raise thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout the earth.

9:18 - THEREFORE hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy and whom he will harden.
---RICHARDC on 12/13/12


Mark E, let me phrase this a little better. God is just that He offers salvation to all men, if they can keep the laws perfect. No one could but Jesus. That's why the law could not save anyone. Our works are never good enough. Thats why we are reconcile to God through the works of Jesus Christ. Faith in Christ is a gift of God (Eph. 2:8,9). Bestowed not to all. Paul said,
"They have all turned aside, they have together become unprofitable, There is none who does good, no, not one" (Rom. 3:12). "The way of peace they have not known" (Rom.3:17).
If a lost person out of his own free will accept Christ, there would be one thing good in them. But there isn't. Lost man is helpless in the state he is in.
---Mark_V. on 12/13/12


You imply millions who are lost, understand and seek after God while they are lost.
---Mark_V. on 12/12/12

I do not imply this.

As I have stated before, we do not seek after God ourselves. It is God who seeks after us and draws us to Himself. It is God's will that no one be lost. God does know who will believe on Jesus before they actually do, and has known this from the foundation of the world.

But I must still believe. I must do my part and believe. God does not force me to believe in Jesus.

I also understand that God draws all men to Himself. Many have discussed Judas Iscariot in this blog. God did draw Judas and gave Judas every chance to believe on Jesus. Yet Judas did not believe.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/13/12


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Romans12:3 - FOR I say though the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think : but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Ephesians 2:8 For by Grace are ye saved through faith, and not of yourselves, it is a gift of God.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 But the Lord is faithful , who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
---RICHARDC on 12/12/12


What did I say if not , "What those passages show is God's mercy and tenderness through the prophet and through Jesus, His Word"
"Hear that "shall be saved"? Hear that wild olive?"
In the same conversation I only mentioned (space constraints) Romans 11:23 but read the chapter. The Gentiles to which Paul had gone and was to go
were not saved, they were to be saved by the same Grace. Do you think the broken branches in unbelief were saved? No they were not until they
came back according to God. Gentiles were not a 'people' always, neither had faith nor believed until the Grace of God included them and brought the
Gospel to them, it was extended to them: Matthew 21:43

You understand? No.
---Nana on 12/12/12


Nana, I do not "believe" that you understand the verse you quoted.

Acts15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

The topic of Acts 15 is, "should the gentiles be circumcised?" in order to be Christians. Peter, under the influence of the Holy Spirit, preaches that salvation is by the grace of God and that to be a Christian does not require circumcision. In other words, salvation does not come by following the law/i.e. circumcision = works.

Paul is saying that his belief is that the Jews are saved by the same grace that saves the gentiles.

Do you understand?
---trey on 12/12/12


what does scripture say?:

ALL who believe.

the faith is His...to believe or not to believe is ours.

if i fix a meal...i compel my children to belly up. but, i do not make them eat everthing. that is their choice and they have to live with the consequences that i tell them of.

it is amazing that the lord pepares and serves, but there are those that pick and choose much to their own spiritual emaciation.
---aka on 12/12/12


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Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
---francis on 12/12/12


I did not mention 'free will' nor that ' man has to give permission to Almighty God to save him", you did and you are.
What those passages show is God's mercy and tenderness through the prophet and through Jesus, His Word.


"A person believes in Christ because he is saved already, unbelievers do not believe in Christ."

Romans 11:23
Acts 15:11 "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."
Hear that "shall be saved"? Hear that wild olive?
---Nana on 12/12/12


Nana, none of the passages you gave say that man has free will and that man has to give permission to Almighty God to save him. When God was speaking to Israel, He was speaking to the whole nation. Did anyone listen to God? To this day Israel has not listened. Why? Because God has not given them faith. A person believes in Christ because he is saved already, unbelievers do not believe in Christ. That is why they are called unbelievers. Only His sheep hear His voice and they follow Him. The goats do not hear His voice. I believe in Jesus who is the Word, do you? This are spiritual matters Nana, man cannot create in his heart the faith to believe, for faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
---Mark_V. on 12/12/12


If man has no choice in his salvation, why then allow Adam to sin, which God knew would cause His son pain, suffering, and eventualy death?

It is only because Adam has 100% free will that he choose to sin.

It is only because we have free will that we choose to accept or reject the gospel of the grace of God

1 Timothy 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,

1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
---francis on 12/12/12


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Matthew 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!"
Isaiah 1:2 "Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me."
Matthew 7:11

Merciful God speaks to his wayward sons, Isaiah 1:17 "Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow."

Even you Mark_V., you too can be graffed in!
---Nana on 12/12/12


Mark E, I worded the question right. This is the answer most give. If you receive the gift out of your own will, without God changing your heart, it is all of works. Implying God has no power over you, you have power over God. You are doing the choosing, He cannot interfer with your decision. He is just there, waiting in case you change your mind.
The question is," can you change your mind without the work of God?" Because the word of God tells us,
"For it is written,
"There is none righteous, no, not one"
There is none who understands,
"There is none who seeks after God"
(Rom. 3:10,11).
You imply millions who are lost, understand and seek after God while they are lost.
---Mark_V. on 12/12/12


Behold, I have told you before.

And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead, and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee, there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen, and ye receive not our witness.

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Peace
---TheSeg on 12/12/12


Jesus said to Paul that He was sending Paul to the Gentiles "to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me." (Acts 26:18)

So, turning someone "from the power of Satan to God" would mean saving the person, I can see. And since there is Satan's power of slavery in sin, the person's will would not be free. "But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered." (Romans 6:17)
---willie_c: on 12/11/12


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Hi MarkV, one of my favorite scriptures is:
1 Tim1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

Paul is telling Timmothy that this is something he can hold on to. I love the point he makes..."of whom I am chief." Paul didn't say I was chief. He said, "I am chief". present tense. We are still sinners. It is our nature! We are born sinners, we live sinful lives, and we die because of sin, but thanks be to God for Christ Jesus!!!
---trey on 12/11/12


Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

All?

Rom 3:22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.

that is what scripture says...believe it or not.
---aka on 12/11/12


Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

If God's will for the salvation of man was entirely up to God, then The time to save Adam from his sins would have been before he sinnned,
not after.

Because Adam like us had free will, he choice against the will of God to be lost.


Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.

There was a sin offering waiting for cain if he wanted to be saved, he choose not to use that sin offering
---francis on 12/11/12


Does God really save sinners? Most people believe that God does save them, only if they let Him. What does Scripture say?
---Mark_V. on 12/11/12

Strange how you worded the end of the second sentence of the blog question, "only if they let Him". Does this show your comtempt for our responses?

The Bible says:

John 1:12-13 "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God"

We did not will it, nor did we grant it, nor did we perform it, but we did believe. And because belief has a counterpart of unbelief, the two sides comprise a decision.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/11/12


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---christan on 12/11/12

agree christian but that verse is about God calling to us. And yes he has to call to us for salvation.

Matthew 22
Background information: During a wedding the host would provide clothing for the attendees to wear

As Gordon has pointed out is that we must remove our garment (which symbolizes self-rightousness) for the wedding garment that the Master (God) gives the attendees (his rightousness, for salvation). So yes we can reject God.
---Scott1 on 12/11/12


2 Thessalonians 2:13 - BUT we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you.brethren beloved of the Lord because from the beginning chosen you to salvation , though sanctification of the spirit and belief of the truth.

John 6:44 - NO man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him , and will raise him up at the last day.
---RICHARDC on 12/11/12


Only sinners are in need of salvation.
The angels who have never sinned have no need of salvation
Once you accept the salvation ofered by jesus, yo are no longer counted as a sinner, you are what God says you are:
John 1:12 the sons of God,
---francis on 12/11/12


Our Father in Heaven,

i confess the sins of my Fathers and me, we had other gods by worshiped ourselves and our churches rather than You.

We enjoyed images of statues, tv,and internet, we idolized Pastors, sports and rock stars.

We took Your name in vain in many ways, we profaned Your Sabbaths,we commited adultery against You by weaving pagan things with Yours.

We stole by taking things that were not ours.

We did't honor our parents in many ways.

We bore false witness by misinterpreting You and others and telling it to others,

We did'nt love You or others as You commanded.

Please have mercy on us all! In the name of the one true Christ, Yashua the Anointed Messiah, the real Jesus, Amen
---j_Marc on 12/11/12


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God reconciled the world to Himself through Christ, not counting mens sins against them.
Christ died for all, that they might be saved through faith in HIM.
---duane on 12/11/12


1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.

Does that answer your question?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/11/12


MATTHEW 22:14 "For MANY ARE CALLED, but few are Chosen." Many are "Called" to be Saved, by GOD, Mark. But, only a few end up receiving the Invitation of Salvation. Esp. on GOD's Terms.
---Gordon on 12/11/12


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