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Founding USA Christian Ideas

Of the framers of the Declaration of Independence, one was a Unitarian and the other two were Deists, they would hardly be considered Christians by the people here.

Just what Christian principles ARE in the Declaration or the Constitution?

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 ---Cluny on 12/19/12
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aka: "anyway, God saves and not anyone else.

Ok, if what you say is true then why go out preaching the gospel? Why not just sit at home? Let's not teach our children the ways of the Lord?

Parents must teach their children right from wrong or the children become feral. Someone needs to go out and spread the gospel of the soon to come Kingdom of God. Christians save people from going to hell, doing wrong, etc. The harvest is plenty, but the workers are few.

People save. What person saved you from spiritual destruction, aka? How many people have you save from destruction? God chooses who he wants to do his will. Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

1 Corinthians 9:22
1 Timothy 4:16
James 5:20
---Steveng on 12/30/12


\\Christians must start preaching the gospel, the soon to come Kingdom of God, starting in their own neighborhoods\\

In the Divine Liturgy in the Orthodox Church, the first thing the priest says is, "Blessed is the KINGDOM of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages."

But then, as I've often said, Orthodoxy is not denominational, but PRE-denominational.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/30/12


---jerry6593 on 12/30/12
you mean abortion is not the law of the land?

Then why do ALL churches have a statement and guideline permitting abortion under certain circumstances?

Why are so many states now allowing for same partner marriage if this is a christian nation?

Let me give you and jed and all the other conservtiies a way out:

Just tell yourself that this is a christan nation, but the blue states, are not christian, that will help you guys sleep better at night
---francis on 12/30/12


Francis: "abortion is the LAW OF THE LAND"

Do you have a clue as to how laws are enacted in the US? Not by the courts!!!!! We have abortion because of a radical, left-wing, activist Judiciary who overstepped the boundaries of their legal authority, and a compliant Congress who won't stand up for the Constitution.


---jerry6593 on 12/30/12


//as Jonah saved Nineveh//

???

there are many Jonahs, demonstrative and bitter, in the US that think they are saving the US. We have two here.

anyway, God saves and not anyone else.
---aka on 12/29/12




Who will save America as Jonah saved Nineveh?

No one. Love has wax cold in that country - in fact, in the world - as the end approaches. Christians must start preaching the gospel, the soon to come Kingdom of God, starting in their own neighborhoods. It doesn't really matter what happened 200 years ago, we have a harvet today that needs to be attended. Remember that the harvest is plenty, but the workers are few - especially during these end times.
---Steveng on 12/29/12


---Jed on 12/29/12
well Jed,
1: A christian is one who:
keeps the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12
So to have a christian nation, you MUST have the commandments of God ALL OF THEM, and faith in Jesus, as part of the law of the land.

2: The values displayed by the founders, in relations to the Native American, and the Africans, in my view were not christian values. In your view were they christian values?

3: The first Amendment by the founders ensured that we would never call this nation a christian nation

4: As you pointed out, abortion is the law of the land. Also, in many states same partner marriage is the law. Do you think these are christian values also?
---francis on 12/29/12


Francis, now I see what you're problem is. You're picture of what defines a Chrstian nation is messed up. As I said before, the term "Christian nation" never referred to the laws of the land, but the American culture being based on Christian values.
---Jed on 12/29/12


In my view, to be a christian nation we would have to have a constitution in which citizenship is based on:
1: Faith in Jesus and forfeiture of citizenship for backsliding
2: Strict adhearance to the ten commandments even by visitors to USA
3: Baptism manditory for all citizens
---francis on 12/29/12


"One of the great strengths of the United States," the President said, "is ... we have a very large Christian population -- we do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation. We consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values."
B. Obama

Even 'christian' is quite fractured in this country, is it not? However some consider that 'christian' is a unified front (definitely republican, right?).
---Nana on 12/29/12




Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

April 6, 2009. just in time for Easter, President Obama spoke at a press conference in Turkey, a Muslim country, and said of America, "We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation."

April 13, 2009. Newsweek magazines cover story proclaimed America is in the post-Christian era.

April 14, 2009. Georgetown University admits it covered over the name of Jesus to comply with a White House request.

are we a christian country or not? how long will you sleep?
---aka on 12/29/12


The question was not whether we are a christian nation today.
---Jed on 12/28/12
Good, you are looking at today.
I am looking at the founding of the nation in both the actions of the founders, and the constitution signed by the founders. Neither by their action (love thy neighbour) nor by their constitution did they declare this nation to be founded on Christian principles
---francis on 12/28/12


If you use legalized abortion as a standard for christainity, then by your own standard the USA is not Christian becvause abortion is the LAW OF THE LAND
---francis on 12/28/12


Absolutley true! I already stated that the U.S. has taken a sharp turn away from Christiantiy in recent years and is a much less Christian nation today than it once was, not just because of abortion, but that is a major factor. The question was not whether we are a christian nation today. I never stated that our culture today has christian principles, actually I would suggest the exact oposite. Over half the country voted for Barack Obama, I think there's no question that we no longer live in a predominately Christian nation.
---Jed on 12/28/12


---Jed on 12/28/
If you use legalized abortion as a standard for christainity, then by your own standard the USA is not Christian becvause abortion is the LAW OF THE LAND
---francis on 12/28/12


Again, Francis, I think the founders would find your behavior, especially your support of legalized abortion, a disqualifier for you being a christian too.
---Jed on 12/28/12


Amendment I which assures us that the United States Government can NEVER declare this nation to be a christain nation. That each individual is FREE to participate in, or abstain from religion

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

And the behaviour of the founders toward the native Americans, and later toward the Africans, is evidence that this country was not founded on christian principle, even if some of the founders claimed christianity as their religion
---francis on 12/28/12


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Hello,Sis.Shira4368, also, now going tell the Regime KKK were also, in carribean. my greatgrand mother. state the portuquese & the spanish they also, took for. Them be slaves. Even today still in certain countries they still got slavery in Ghana I know they have slavery and there is a pastor on youtube he says in Haiti they have slaves whole families. My Lord it is freightening shocking.

Love of JESUS!
---ELENA on 12/27/12


Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

FREEDOM FROM and OF religion

This assures us that the United States Government can NEVER declare this nation to be a christain nation. That each individual is FREE to participate in, or abstain from religion
---francis on 12/27/12


Francis: One more time.

"Many preachers in the south were apostles of the KKK"

Yes, and they were ALL Democrats! It was Republicans who fought to free the slaves and who passed the Civil rights laws. So why is it that you support Democrats? Why did you vote for Obama? Skin color, perhaps?


---jerry6593 on 12/28/12


interesting.. indentured servitude was not abolished in the nt. the owners were encouraged to treat them better. in the US, it was abolished. so, what principle is christian?
---aka on 12/27/12


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"They were slaves and they were White".
---trey on 12/27/12

The fact that there were slaves in USA is not the issue at all.

It is the treatment of those slaves, and native americans, and the abuse of the word fo God in the treatment of those slaves and native americans, that would disqualify USA as being founded on christian principle
---francis on 12/27/12


Francis, The 1st ammendment does not provide freedom FROM religion, only freedom OF religion. I have the right to stand anywhere and express my religious beliefs regardless of whether ou like it or not. Freedom FROM religion would mean that I would have to shut up if you didn't want to hear it, which would prohibit my free exercise of religion. The constitution doesn't guarantee that. It only guarantees that there will be no legal establishment of religion and that you can't be forced to participate. But it doesn't guarantee that you won't be exposed to my religious beliefs.
---Jed on 12/27/12


Francis, cont... Also, I think you should start reading the other posts on this blog because I already explained that when people say this is a Christian nation, they are not referring to the constitution or government (Although our laws and constitution were based on a Judeo-Christian code of right and wrong). The statement "Christian Nation" refers to the people, America's Christian SOCIETY and CULTURE. It was a Christian Society long before the Constitution was ever written. The constitution may not define the U.S. as a christian nation, but the predominate religion of the founders and citizens was christianity. That's what is meant by Christian nation. It's obvious in recent years our culture has taken a sharp turn away.
---Jed on 12/27/12


francis, I said it once but I will say it again. you are watching way too many documentaries on discovery channel. how do you know so much about the kkk? well, I can't say for sure what relationship the kkk had with what church but it surely wasn't the baptist church. I've been around for 74 years and I knew some who were in kkk. one was my uncle who was so pious and he ran around on his wife and then went to church sunday and sunday night. I hope God isn't too rough on him when he stands in judgement.
---shira4368 on 12/27/12


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I do know that at one time in my home town, the pastor of First Methodist was a member of the KKK, and he killed a Roman Catholic priest who married his daughter to a Roman Catholic.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/27/12


Jed, again you are right. The fact is that many sins done a while back are almost gone, we do have so many new ones. Man always come out with new ways to sin. Here in the states the worst liars are politicians, the worse theft's are man in banks and saving's and loans. Man who steal millions, get no time in jail . And of course the worse sin is sucking the brains out of an unborn with a vacumm. Seems no one really cares for the life of a child. Millions die each year, and you hardly hear any news concerning them. It's like people are comotosed. Brainwashed.We are suppose to be a country where we have rights, but only for those who don't want to work, and those who kill the unborns have rights. No rights for the unborn. What a shame.
---Mark_V. on 12/27/12


Speaking of slavery:
Point No. 1:
John13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
If we understand Christ's teachings we know he taught against slavery! How can a man call himself a Christian and enslave another man!

Point No. 2
Read the book, "They were slaves and they were White". Down through the ages there have been many slaves that were not black. People of all races have been slaves. In the 1600's in Europe the young blond haired blue eyed boys and girls brought the most on the auction block.

By the way, slavery still exists in the US today!
---trey on 12/27/12


We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

where is God's role in this?
It says that WE WILL DO IT OURSELF

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

FREEDOM OF and FROM RELIGION
---francis on 12/27/12


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Francis: "Many preachers in the south were apostles of the KKK"

Yes, and they were ALL Democrats! It was Republicans who fought to free the slaves and who passed the Civil rights laws. So why is it that you support Democrats? Why did you vote for Obama? Skin color, perhaps?



---jerry6593 on 12/27/12


elena, I am glad you told your story here about your family. there are many stories about slavery and each story is different. I love reading life experiences of times gone by. no one should make a blanket statement for any group of people. there were no apostles in the kkk. they were secret evil men who committed crimes.
---shira4368 on 12/27/12


francis, I grew up in the south around church and many preachers and none of them had anything to do with kkk. ---shira4368 on 12/26/12
hhmm so you do not know that the KKK had a relationship with the church in the south, or you pretending it never occured?

Why do you think that churches are segregated by colour?
---francis on 12/27/12


Francis, I'm sure that our founders wouldn't consider you to be a Christian either. You are a leftist abortionist right?
---Jed on 12/26/12


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Bro.Mark, you know you are correct. My great-great-grandmother & her daughter came out of slavery, not in this country,she talk alot about it.Now her mother died the day I was born.her daughter actually, she learn about Christ from the slave owners.She could not read or write.
Yesterday,I listen to Harriet Beecher Stowe.She talk about slaves life here back slave time.If it have not be for them believe in christianity, it gave thrm hope where it seem impossible.
---ELENA on 12/26/12


francis, I grew up in the south around church and many preachers and none of them had anything to do with kkk. the kkk use to feather white men who physically abused their wives. you have been watching too many bias documentaries. I know the kkk was bad but so is black panthers. both are evil. I surely don't like the kkk or black panthers.
---shira4368 on 12/26/12


jed, you have a very good way of saying things. wow and you are so right too. the world and the U.S. is much much more wicked than when our country was founded. I have read documents from the founding fathers and francis is wrong about our country and the founding fathers.
---shira4368 on 12/26/12


Consider also the gospel, the treatment of the natives, and slavery in USA.

The founders did not believe that native Americans, and Africans could be saved nor worthy of salvation.

They could never be equal in Christ

To that end, religion was NEVER intended to bring Africans or native Americans to salvation, but rather to control thier actions

Can you image worshiping the same god who is no respector of persob,s but cannot do it in the same building?

Many preachers in the south were apostles of the KKK
---francis on 12/26/12


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Francis, you're completely missing the fact that slavery was abolished. But the fact that republicans abolished slavery is evidence that most people in this country knew it was wrong and didn't want it. If you're claims are true, that America was never had Christian principles because we love slavery then we would still have slaves today. So you're argument that we were never a Christian country because we went from having slaves to not having slaves makes no sense at all. It can be said that we were a much more Christian country then than now because we went from abortion being illegal to having legalized murder. Which is the complete oposite direction we went with the slavery issue.
---Jed on 12/26/12


---shira4368 on 12/25/12

If it were a christian thing, you would feel differently. And that is my point. If the contry was founded on christian principles, slavery as it occured would not have happened, nor would the native americans be ill treated for their land.

The founders went as far as to destroy the source of food for native americans, then placed them on reservation.

These practices were endorced and look upon as a virtue.

Even today in USA with the exception of the RCC, religion is still divided by race, because the founders used christ not as a means of salvation, since they do not believe that africans and native americans can be saved, but as a means of control
---francis on 12/26/12


Sis. Shira, you and Jed I believe are correct. God did not cause slavery, sin did. But God permitted slavery to continue as we see that Pharoah was appointed by God so that God could show His power to mankind. God gave rules for slavery, but that doesn't mean they always followed the rules and were not as cruel and they were hundreds of years later. Israel always disobeyed God.
We also find slavery in the sense of a slave to sin. And also as slave to God. God knew what people would do with their sin. Africans were not the only slaves, Mexicans, Chinese and just about every nationality were slaves at sometime or another. Every time a country conqured another, slaves were gathered and formed. There is still millions of slaves around the world.
---Mark_V. on 12/26/12


Steveng, what founding father said that the constitution lets us do whatever we want? I highly doubt a framer of the constitution would say that. If that was their intent, why even have a constitution or even a government at all? The fact that they were took the time to lay out rights and laws means that they didn't intend for people to just run around doing whatever they wanted. Probably a little over your head though.
---Jed on 12/26/12


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It was once said by one of the founding fathers that the constitution allowed us to do whatever we wanted, but it was the bible that kept us from doing everything we wanted.
---Steveng on 12/25/12


francis, africa and america profited from slave trade. in order for america to buy slaves, someone had to be selling them. I hate this subject and I hate what happened to the slaves. I am glad it doesn't happen in this country anymore. I had a friend who employed a black lady for years...she was not a slave but a paid employee. when my friend died, she got a good chunk of cash and home and land.
---shira4368 on 12/25/12


Francis, of course biblical slavery was different than U.S. slavery. So what you're saying is that certain forms of slavery are okay? Only some forms of slavery are bad? My point is that just because slavery existed in the U.S. doesn't mean it wasn't founded on Biblical principles.
---Jed on 12/25/12


Biblical slavery, and what happened in USA are two very different things

Exodus 21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.

do you realize that the next thing after the ten commandments in the bible is the rights of slaves ( servans) Something never given tp slaves in USA

In the bible, the family is protected in slavery, in USA the family was destroyed intentionally and for profit
---francis on 12/25/12


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If this nation was founded on christian doctrine, the illtreatment of Africans, and Native americans would not have been the law of the land.

Love thy neighbour as thyself was not the doctrine of the founders towards the native's and the africans

So this country was not founded on biblical principles ---francis on 12/25/12


Oh, interesting that you think Abraham, (the father of Judaism and Christianity) did not have biblical principles.
---Jed on 12/25/12


jed you are right in what you said about slaves. they have always been throughout time. did you know abraham lincoln was saved the week before he was shot and had planned to tell of his conversion the next sunday but he was shot before he could do that. francis, the founding fathers met for hours day and night to pray for guidance when writing the constitution. some were christians and maybe some wasn't. the constitution is written for the freedom of everyone of american citizens so anything that was done, it was done by citizens. there were evil people living then just like they are now. I am still happy that our country is free and still the best country in the world.
---shira4368 on 12/25/12


Jed
I have started researching your statement about U.S. laws protecting slaves from brutality. I have not found one yet. Every law I found so far has protected the rights and interests of the owner.
---pg1 on 12/25/12


My point is this: If this nation was founded on christian doctrine, the illtreatment of Africans,a nd Native americans would not have been the law of the land.

Love thy neighbour as thyself was not the doctrine of the founders towards the native's and the africans

So this country was not founded on biblical principles

It was founded by nominal christians with manefest destiny as they doctrine
---francis on 12/25/12


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\\When you talk about slavery in the U.S., you need to remember that this was at a time when slavery was widely practiced all over the entire world.\\

Just the other day, I heard Jerry Warren (is that his name) actually tell Fareed Zakaria that the Bible condemns slavery. This is wrong. While nowhere is slavery called a good thing, it was accepted as a fact of life in Biblical times and was at best merely tolerated.

Please do not deduce from this that I approve of slavery. I don't and think it stinks.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/25/12


When you talk about slavery in the U.S., you need to remember that this was at a time when slavery was widely practiced all over the entire world. In fact there was much more slavery in other parts of the world than in the U.S. at that time. The U.S. was one of the only countries that had laws against brutality on slaves. But not everyone was okay with slavery. There were some conservatives who wanted to abolish slavery in the constitution, even though it was excepted world-wide. But efforts to abolish slavery were blocked by liberals and so slavery continued until the republican party (founded by anti-slavery activists in 1854) elected the first republican president, Abraham Lincoln, who abolished slavery in the U.S.
---Jed on 12/25/12


The deity referred to in the Declaration of Independence and identified as the source of human rights, is believed by many people to be the God of Christianity, Who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (quite different from the deity of either Judaism or mahometanism).

Nevertheless, Jefferson himself certainly did not believe in the Deity of Jesus. Nor did the deist Franklin or Unitarian Adams.

Just on the basis of what the D of I actually says (as opposed to how most people interpret it), it's impossible to tell if the committee meant the Christian God, the masonic god called "Creat Architect of the Universe," Shiva, Huitzalpochitili, Ashtarte, or Odin/Wotan.

Merry Christmas!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/24/12


francis, whites bought slaves from african men who sold them on the slave market. most slave owners treated their slaves very well...no excuse just saying. I'm sure lots of violence happened so I guess its just whatever history your study. there are thousands of history books and all give one person or one town's history.
---shira4368 on 12/24/12


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Shira4368
I recommend you read up on slavery and the history of the Native American. Your post about slave owners being good to their slaves is laughable. How can you call beatings, rape, selling off family members and stripping a human of all their dignity being good to a slave. I won't even address the Native American issue. Your post is a joke.
---pg1 on 12/24/12


Well, shira4368 my point is that the violence demonstrated by the founding fathers were far greater in everyway, that what happened recently.

They massacred the native american with guns, they poisened them with ethanol, the infected them with diseased blankets all to get their lands.

For hundreds of years the took africans from their home kands and brought them to foriegn lands, then the british invaded cape town and set up a system of apartheid.

The treatments of africans in the unions and in south africa was worse by far than what the Nazi did to the israelies

Now I ask you were these the action of christian for over 500 years?
---francis on 12/24/12


\\The term "Christian nation" doesn't mean our constitution or government. It refers to our Christian SOCIETY and CULTURE.\\

Actually, this really is what "nation of Christians" means. A "Christian Nation" is specifically based on the Christian religion/faith, which ours is not.

I wonder how many people here would consider those 52 signers to be Christians if they knew what these 52 really believed.

Merry Christians.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/24/12


Cluny: To whom does the American Founding Documents attribute our basic human rights? To the Federal Government or to the Judeo-Christian God? That should settle the issue once and for all.


---jerry6593 on 12/24/12


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francis, go back and study the founding fathers. the usa you describe is now. people wonder why violence is so abounding but they forget we have shut God out of everything. Now they are trying to shut Him out of His own birth. God didn't cause the tradegy in Pennsylvania. evil men cause evil things and as long as our country turns her back on God, evil will be rampant.
---shira4368 on 12/24/12


U SA has never been christian in action, doctrine or legislation.

This is a nation with a large number of nominal Christians, each sect believing his own thing.

If this were a christian nation, then the laws contained in the bible, the judgments contained in the bible, the statutes contained in the bible would be the law of the land without question.

But this is not so. Our laws have more in common with the late Roman Empire than they do with the bible
---francis on 12/23/12


Cluny, our nation was not built by three people. It is made up of every citizen of this land. The term "Christian nation" doesn't mean our constitution or government. It refers to our Christian SOCIETY and CULTURE. when people say that our country was founded on Christian principles, they are talking about America's society being a culture of Christian principles and morals. The Constitution has always guaranteed no established religion by government. But long before the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, America was already a Christian society, and remained that until recent years.

But just a little fun fact for you: 52 of the 55 men who formed the Constitution were active members of their church.
---Jed on 12/23/12


\\cluny, you are right it isn't debatable\\

Re-read what I said, shira.

I NEVER said this subject was not debatable.

I merely said that computer boards are not the best place for such an attempt.

**it had broken my heart if this do not continue to be a christian country, **

ELENA, was the United States EVER a Christian country (as opposed to a country with a large number of Christians)? Actually, at the time of the American Revolution, only THIRTY PERCENT of people in the 13 original colonies had ANY Christian affiliation at all.

Did you all know that?

Merry Christmas!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/23/12


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---shira4368 on 12/23/12
do you believe that the actions of the founders towards the Native Americans, and Africans demonstrated the actions of a Christian nation?

If you were to ask those two groups what do you think they would say?
---francis on 12/23/12


Oh,my God, Shira4368, it had broken my heart if this do not continue to be a christian country, it very bad.This brother of the pentecostal & some too, from even thr catholic church in Spain told me via msm & sent a video.the muslims livein the catholic churches there & the spanish people are.not given s
any food or lodgeing if poor or homeless & the muslims men threatrn the priest do as they command.They are take young girls who family are christian.keep & marry them
Never see family..
horrible! We keep pray...left online prayerRoom few days ago
---ELENA on 12/23/12


frances, what happened to the other cheek. sometimes I don't understand everything. I can't help what my forefathers did and neither can you. I do know the indians did not worship God. there is lots of witchcraft within the indian reservations. blacks were not here until the whites came from england. it was blacks who gathered slaves up in africa and sold them to rich americans. it is all a sad travesty but we know it is true history. frankly I can't even imagine any of the above. I do know the white americans gave their black slaves land and was good to them. I am happy things are not like that anymore.
---shira4368 on 12/23/12


If you really want to know what christian idea this U S A was founded on, it would be best to ask the Native Americans who were there first, and the African who was brought in later

These two groups would have a much better idea of Luke 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

Matthew 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
---francis on 12/23/12


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cluny, you are right it isn't debatable because its too late for that. this isn't a chat room but a channel to voice beliefs. merry christmas to you too
---shira4368 on 12/23/12


\\cluny: I would imagine most christians are more capable than what "we" voted for this year.\\

That is debatable, but not on computer chat.

Merry Christmas!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/23/12


cluny: I would imagine most christians are more capable than what "we" voted for this year. In the old testiment, God put kings on the throne and when a king got in that wasn't God called, the country fell. Our country is failing and we are in an avalanch of moral and spiritual decay. obama said it right, we are no longer a christian nation. that was truly revealed in the 2008 election.
---shira4368 on 12/23/12


\\GW meant he was a Christian when he said he was "born again".
---aka on 12/21/12\\

Conservative Christians in the USA forget that we are voting for a president and commander in chief--NOT a prophet and pastor in chief.

I don't care how many time any one has been born. His personal faith and spiritual state does NOT mean he is competent to hold a particular public office.

Consider Winston Churchill. He did a marvelous job of guiding Great Britain through WW2, but would anyone choose him as a spiritual director?

Merry Christmas!

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/22/12


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//"Divine Providence" could merely be a British // cluny

agreed. we fall in many pitfalls thinking that one term means the same to another. a whole nation of evangelicals was duped when they thought that GW meant he was a Christian when he said he was "born again".
---aka on 12/21/12


\\However, a few key phrases emerge as "christian" statements such as "That all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator" and "with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence".\\

Neither of these phrases necessarily means the God of Christianity.

"Divine Providence" could merely be a British form of the mahometan kismet or fate.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/20/12


//a few key phrases emerge as "christian" statements such as//

mark, we have to be most careful. phrases that sound christian might not actually be. in fact, most churches say "Christ", but some mean Jesus and some believe Jesus and Michael are the same.

another example..."as above, so below" sounds a lot like "On earth as it is in Heaven". but, the former phrase is used The this phrase is believed to hold the key to all mysteries. All systems of magic are claimed to function by this formula. the phrase used by our savior is also used heavily in modern and traditional mysticism.
---aka on 12/20/12


See the phrase THEIR CREATOR, if this was a christian document it would be THE CREATOR





---francis on 12/20/12


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The Declaration of Independence is a document containing a list of grievances committed at the time by King George III. As such, it has little if any solutions or principles described in it.

However, a few key phrases emerge as "christian" statements such as "That all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator" and "with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence".

I would suggest that your question is better directed to the Constituion of the United States.
---Mark_Eaton on 12/20/12


you should not get too many accurate responses here.
---aka on 12/20/12


"Just what Christian principles ARE in the Declaration or the Constitution? " Cluny There are none.
---Josef on 12/20/12


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