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Warwick- you have selectively quoted the Oxford dictionary def. of 'incarnation'.

John 1:14 does not teach 'incarnation'. John does not say 'the Word retained his divine status and came in the flesh and was God in the flesh'. This is what you and Cluny are saying. But not what the Bible teaches. John says, 'the Word became flesh'.

Hebrews 10:5 does not each 'incarnation'. Paul is discussing Sacrifices and comparing Jesus'superlative sacrifice against thse under the Law. Who was it 'who prepared a body' for Jesus? Of course it was Jehovah God his Father.

Despite what you believe Warwick, no where will you find the false trinity expression 'God the Son' in the Bible-only in the false teaching of RCC/Unorthodox catechisms.
---David8318 on 12/30/12


'If He was spirit only, no one would have been able to see Him in His ascension'- MarkV.

How do you suppose the angels were able to take hold of Lot and man-handled him out of Sodom? (Ge.19:15,16) How do suppose Nebuchadnezzar saw a 4th individual- an 'angel'- in the furnace with the 3 faithful Hebrews? (Dan.3:26-28) Spirit beings/angels have the ability to appear as humans. (Gen..6:2, compare 1 Pe.3:19,20)

After his death 'in the flesh', Jesus was made alive 'in the spirit', hence why he was able to enter locked rooms & appear physically to his disciples- Mt.20:26.

Jesus ascended back to heaven as a spirit being. Do you believe the 2 men in white were human or angels? (Luke 24:4,5 & Acts 1:10, also Matt.28:2,3)
---David8318 on 12/30/12


David when we read John 1:14 we see "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us." Biblically speaking this is what incarnate means. This agrees with Hebrews 10:5 where the coming Christ, God the Son says "a body you prepared for me." God is Spirit and man is flesh. In Jesus we have God (Spirit) clothed in the flesh of Jesus the man. I have selectively quoted nothing.
---Warwick on 12/30/12


Warwick- you're selective quoting again! Let's quote Oxford's definition of 'incarnation' in full.

'Incarnation': a person who embodies in the flesh a deity, spirit, or quality- Oxford Dictionary.

As I said before, it means more than just 'in the flesh'. No where does John or Paul teach that Jesus was a 'deity or spirit in the flesh'.

Paul writing about Jesus said, 'who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men'- Ph.2:6,7 (NAS).

Jesus emptied himself of 'the form of God' he existed in (spirit) and came in the likeness of men (human-NIV). Jesus 'became flesh'.
---David8318 on 12/29/12


The dogs bark, but the caravan passes on.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/29/12




David, you said to Cluny,

"Incarnte doesn't mean simply 'made flesh', but that a deity is 'spirit in the flesh'. Where is this specifically taught in the Bible?"

Here, let me help you,
" The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee, "wherefore also the Holy Thing which is begotten shall be called the Son of God"(Luke 1:35). Only One is Holy, God. And here we are told the "the holy thing which is begotten" namely Jesus Christ.
"Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 1:20). It's that clear.
---Mark_V. on 12/29/12


David, your idea that a word has to be used in a text for it to be a reality is nonsense.

When someone gives a speech we say they gave a speech even if they never uttered the word 'speech', don't we?

Maybe in their speech they spoke of a significant rise in the rate of a certain crime. A comentator could fairly say the speaker spoke of a crime 'wave' when in fact the speaker never uttered the word 'wave.'

Words are designed to convey meaning. Incarnate came into English from the Latin 'incarnatio' meaning 'embody in flesh' Oxford Dictionary. This agrees with Hebrews 10:5-a body you prepared for me. And of course John 1:14.
---Warwick on 12/28/12


'it's pointless to discuss anything about Christianity, including history, with you'- Cluny.

What a cop out! Cluny has the audacity to hurl questions at bloggers, demanding who said what, where and when. When he gets questioned Cluny runs off tail between his legs! Man up Cluny!

Cluny states "Jesus is God incarnate", yet he can't show where scripture specifically says this.

Cluny says Jesus' "divine nature in one person". Cluny has yet to provide which 1st century writer said this.

Cluny doesn't want to discuss history because history details where his festivals originate. Julius I, Bishop of Rome officially chose Dec.25 as the birthday of Christ 350AD. Cluny is thus a follower of men- a cultist.
---David8318 on 12/28/12


david-

boing fwip
---aka on 12/28/12


Aka & strongaxe- you both use fallacy as the type of argument adopted by Cluny.

Aka- where have I said that any of those words you cite are in the Bible? Otherwise your argument is a fallacy. Unlike Cluny who uses 'God incarnate' and "divine nature in one person" to describe God, unless he can provide chapter and verse, Cluny is adding to the Bible.

Strongaxe- for your information, internet blogs were not around in Jesus' day. Neither have I said the internet is in he Bible unlike Cluny who claims 'God incarnate' is. Again your argument is a fallacy.

Incarnte doesn't mean simply 'made flesh', but that a deity is 'spirit in the flesh'. Where is this specifically taught in the Bible?
---David8318 on 12/28/12




David, there is no salvation in another Jesus. Only the One true God can save anyone. You believed your founding father
Jesus after the resurrection had a human body, a glorified human body. In the resurrection His body was prepared for heaven. If He was spirit only, no one would have been able to see Him in His ascension, and He will return the same way at His Second Coming. His body is a pattern of the body of believers who are raised or translated. As He rose again bodily, so will we, glorified.
"There is One God, One mediator also between God and men, Himself man, Christ Jesus" The term Son of man which Christ uses of Himself in Matthew 26:64) as describing His reign in heaven is mentioned also in (Rev. 1:3: 14:14).
---Mark_V. on 12/28/12


Cluny- incarnation does not mean simply 'made in flesh' or 'in the flesh'. Incarnation specifically means a diety is in or clothed with flesh. 'Spirit being in the flesh'.

You keep preaching Jesus was 'God incarnate'. Where does the Bible say Jesus was'God incarnate'? You cite John 1, but John doesn't say Jesus was 'God incarnate'. John says 'the Word became flesh' (NAS, NIV, ASV), 'made flesh' (KJV).

No where does John teach that 'the Word' was spirit and flesh- or 'God incarnate'. John teaches Jesus (the Word) 'became flesh'. Anything else is antichrist- Jesus came in the flesh... nothing more. 1 John 4:2,3.

Unless of course you believe 'the Word was God' which means you're an antichrist polytheist and contradict Jo.1:18.
---David8318 on 12/28/12


David "..when Christ came into the world, he said...a body have you prepared for me" Hebrews 10:5. Therefore He did not already have a body, so not an angel. And because He preexisted everything created,as Colossians 1:16,17 clearly says. He was therefore Spirit. Therefore incarnation (The embodiment of God the Son in human flesh as Jesus) is a perfect description of reality. This is why He is called the Son of Man (man) and the Son of God (God).

This is Jesus, God with us "the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high." Hebrews 1:3.
---Warwick on 12/27/12


David8318:

John 1:14
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

"Incarnation" means "made flesh". You can call it anything else you choose, but the meaning is the same. If you choose to dispute Cluny's position because he uses a different word to mean the same thing, but then you yourself object to someone else playing exactly the same kind of hair-splitting word games, you are being inconsistent.
---StrongAxe on 12/27/12


Where in the Bible are Pioneers, Auxiliary Pioneers, District Overseers, Circuit Overseers, Bethelites, and Kingdom Halls?
---aka on 12/27/12


David, anything that St. Peter or any of the Apostles said should be understood in the light of what Jesus Himself said.

What did He say to the Apostles? "Touch me and handle me and see it is I Myself. A spirit does NOT HAVE FLESH AND BONES as you see that I have."

As for the rest of your comments, if you don't believe that Jesus is fully God (not the archangel Michael, who is created) in human flesh, it's pointless to discuss anything about Christianity, including history, with you.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/27/12


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' "Bible" is not a Bible word, either'- Cluny.

This type of argument adopted by Cluny is a fallacy. A fallacy of equivalence. Cluny attempts to compare his concept of theology- 'incarnation', with a word everyone uses for something real, everyone can see, feel and read- ie 'Bible'.

Cluny is clever in his deceit because he needs to compare his theology with something real to elevate his theology to 'reality'.

I would have used the word 'pagan' in comparison to 'incarnation', as neither appear in the Bible but are both used to describe falsehoods to avoid.

Cluny has yet to cite chapter and verse where, "divine nature in one person" appears.
---David8318 on 12/27/12


'it says: "but made alive "by" the Spirit"'- MarkV.

No it doesn't. The translation I quoted (NAS) reads Christ was 'made alive in the spirit'.

MarkV believes Jesus was God which contradicts John 1:18, that he didn't die completely because he is 'God', and that when he was resurrected, he was resurrected as a physical person and is now back in heaven with his flesh 'alongside God'!?

'He resurrected from the dead in the flesh. And is now seated next to the Father'- MarkV.

So, Jesus who apparently is 'God' has been resurrected in the flesh and is now seated next to the Father. What a load of trinitarian, polytheist psycho-babble.
---David8318 on 12/27/12


David8318:

You are right that Jesus didn't command us to observe his birthday as December 25. He also didn't command us to comment on internet blogs. If you decline to do the first because Jesus didn't mention it, why are you here, as he didn't mention that either? You should at least be consistent.
---StrongAxe on 12/27/12


\\'Incarnation' is not a Bible word. \\

"Bible" is not a Bible word, either. So you stand condemned by your own David words.

"Incarnation" simply means "made flesh", and John 1 uses this.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/27/12


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I personally thank God that the world remembers the birth of Christ! What a great gift of God that he would send his Son. What great love he has shown to us! Luke 2:20, John 3:16

I believe we should rejoice in him everyday and glorify his name with our Christian walk. Hab 3:18, Psalms 97:12

I also thank God for the sacrifice of his Son upon the cross and his bodily resurrection from the grave! Luke 24:34, Heb 10:5

Lord bless each of you is my prayer and I also pray that the Lord give each of us a more clear understanding of his scriptures in 2013.
Luke 24:45
---trey on 12/27/12


David, you misrepresent the Word of God, who is Christ. You say:

"Neither does Peter who states, 'For Christ... having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit'- 1 Peter 3:18 (NAS)."

The passage say's first: "being put to death in the flesh" to remind you so that you would not get confused, that He was not put to death in the Spirit, otherwise why even mention flesh? The it says:
"but made alive "by" the Spirit"
The Holy Spirit made the physical body alive again. He had to die in the flesh for the forgiveness of our sins. But His divine nature cannot die.
---Mark_V. on 12/27/12


Jb3, you are right, pagans and heathens have been celebrating on that day. Christians began much later celebrating Christ on that day. In fact many don't even know about heathens or pagan holidays. Why should they? They are not pagans or heathens, why should they want to know? I will say it again,
Where is the law that no one can celebrate the birth of Christ, or what day we should and what day we shouldn't? many of you make a law prohibing Christians of celebrating that day because it belongs to the heathens and pagans. But it is not a law of God. It mainly comes from legalist, just like the Pharisees did introducing many laws and traditions and making them laws.
---Mark_V. on 12/27/12


MarkV- it is pretty clear why you celebrate on December 25 because you are a follower of man, not of the Christ.

It is not Christ who commanded Christians to celebrate on December 25, neither did Christ designate December 25 as his birthday. It was Julius 1, Bishop of Rome in 350AD who made December 25 the date on which to celebrate Jesus' birthday not because scripture says so, but because pagans were already worshipping on that day as they had for many years previous.

Thus MarkV, you are a follower of man, and not of the Christ. You practice what you are told to practice by pagans and apostate church leaders.
---David8318 on 12/27/12


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Please keep in mind, people have been celebrating the Winter Solstice long before the Christ ever walked the Earth. They worshiped Baal, sun Gods. They sacrificed children and hung their ornaments on evergreen trees. That is the biblical orgin of the Christmas tree. Some Christians dont celebrate Christmas because they dont support child sacrfifice.
---JB3 on 12/27/12


'Think about it'- Cluny.

Cluny's theological rambling 12/26/12 highlights yet again his pagan bent. Not only does he hold to pagan December 25 and January 6 celebrations but he also believes in "incarnation"!

This is laughable! Cluny says he believes Jesus was born, yet he also believes Jesus is 'God incarnate'! What!? That's a contradiction in terms. Why be born if God can simply 'incarnate' himself?

But again this shows up Cluny's paganism. 'Incarnation' is not a Bible word. The ancient pagan Egyptians in addition to beleiving a trinity, believed their Pharaohs were 'god's incarnate', 'god on earth'.

Cluny promotes paganism under his debauched Unorthodox cult.
---David8318 on 12/27/12


'nor do they (JW's) believe that He rose from the dead in His physical body'- Cluny.

Neither does Peter who states, 'For Christ... having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit'- 1 Peter 3:18 (NAS).

Peter states Jesus was 'made alive in the spirit' AFTER being 'put to death in the flesh'.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Bible, not Cluny's False'odox and Unorthodox doctrines.

Glory to Jehovah God!
---David8318 on 12/27/12


'believe that Jesus is God Incarnate, in a full human nature (including human body) and divine nature in one Person?'- Cluny.

Please provide names and dates of any 1st century Bible writer who used the word "incarnate" and the expression "divine nature in one person". Chapter and verse please! Back at you Cluny!

Correct, Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe Jesus is God incarnate- this is not a Bible teaching. Jesus was born in the natural way. He wasn't an incarnation of anyone.

'And the Word became flesh... No one has seen God at any time'- John 1:14,18 (NAS). God wasn't clothed with flesh or 'incarnated' as cluny's False'odoxy supposes. Neither was Jesus, who became flesh, not simply clothed with flesh.
---David8318 on 12/27/12


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1Cliff, Christ is Omniscient, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, because He is God.
He came to earth in the flesh as the Word of God tells us (John 1:1-11) He was in the world and the world was made through Him, His own did not receive Him. As the Word He was with God in the beginning. (v. 14) tells us
"And the Word became flesh and dewelt among us, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth"
His human nature died on the Cross. But His godly nature never died, for He is God. He resurrected from the dead in the flesh. And is now seated next to the Father. His Spirit is Omnipresent, so dewells inside of every believer. It's all in the Word of God, you just have to believe it but you don't.
---Mark_V. on 12/27/12


Here are one or two apostate church leaders:

'Dec.25 was the high point of the pagan winter revelries... the bishop of Rome (Julius I (350AD)) chose Dec.25 as the birth date of Christ in order to 'sanctify' the pagan celebrations. What resulted was a strange mixture of the pagan and the Christian festivals that the world now calls Christmas'- Chruch Christmas Tab.

'Pope Gregory I continued this defiling trend... instead of trying to obliterate peoples customs and beliefs, the pope's instructions were, "use them". If a group of people worship a tree, rather than cut it down, consecrate it to Christ and allow them to worship'- Natural History magazine.

Sorry Cluny, couldn't find their inside leg measurement.
---David8318 on 12/26/12


'You have no scriptural warrant'- Cluny.

Where is Cluny's or any false-christians scriptural warrant to celebrate Jesus' birth on December25, Jan.6/7 or any date?

We can't 'have' computers because there is no scriptural warrant to 'have' them? What a stupid argument. I knew no one would get sense out of these pagans at this time.

What does 'having' computers or the scriptures got to do with paganism? December 25 celebrations on the otherhand have clear links to paganism. Cluny is so well heeled in pagan festivals he can no longer tell the difference between a computer and paganism. A spiritual man can discern spiritual things. A pagan can't.

Cluny can't distinguish between what is blatantly pagan and what is not.
---David8318 on 12/26/12


Cluny:So you believe He rose from the dead in His Physical body?
Quite a statement, first you say Jesus was God incarnate, so you must believe that the immortal GOD "died" at some point!(or maybe just 1/3 of Him died)(a triune being)
Then in His beat up whipped scarred body He arose??? Some mistook Him for a gardener,a gardiner with bruises and lacerations all over him? That could walk through walls? Not realistic Cluny whether you're a JW or not!
---1st_cliff on 12/26/12


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MarkV made me wonder something (thanks, MarkV!)

How many people here who rail against Christmas believe that Jesus is God Incarnate, in a full human nature (including human body) and divine nature in one Person?

Jehovah's False Witnesses make a point of not observing Christmas, but at least they are consistent. They do not believe that Jesus is God Incarnate, nor do they believe that He rose from the dead in His physical body.

Think about it!

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/26/12


David, it is pretty clear why most of you do not believe in celebrating the birth of Christ on the 25. Your answer is the pagans and heathens celebrate that day. So you argue, where in Scripture are we told to celebrate the birth of Christ on that day as your argument. In other words God did not command it.
And since it is not in the Bible you yourselves make a new Law, that does not exist. Because you know there is no law against it. So you build a law. As if you guys were God, and turn around and say, you guys are sinners for breaking the law. It is shear nonsense. Nowhere did God tell us to not celebrate the birth of our Messiah. If He had it would have been a law.
---Mark_V. on 12/26/12


I asked that same question in the end the date was important to remember every year but not near as important giving glory to God and Jesus. Only love can help us see the truth.
---David_Hagar on 12/26/12


\\ I've repeatedly asked cluny for his evidence linking Dec.25 to the Gospels.\\

I've never said that Jesus was born on the Roman calendar date of 25 December.

I've said that this is when the Church COMMEMORATES this important event in our salvation (I admit I have not used these exact words).

I have also asked that David give the NAMES of the church leaders who deliberately decided to use the birth of Mithras/Sol Invictus for this purpose, and the date (at least the year) when they decided to do so. HE was the one who claimed that "apostate church leaders" (his words) did this, so he must know their names.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/25/12


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David, Be very careful not to answer my questions because they will cause you some discomfort!

You only answer those that you can argue against,knowing I have been there!(and there is no argument)
---1st_cliff on 12/25/12


I hope everyone had a great day!
And always remember:

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.


So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another!
Peace
---TheSeg on 12/25/12


In addition to the fact Jesus was born 15 months after the priestly 'Division of Abijah', (Lu.1:5,26) placing his birth early October, another line of scriptural fact is that the Bible provides Jesus' exact date of death- Nisan 14- late in the day of the Jewish passover that had begun on March 31, 33CE.

Luke states Jesus was about 30 years old when baptised- Luke 3:21-23. His ministry lasted three and a half years. Therefore, Jesus was about 33 1/2 years old when he died. He would have turned 34 early October 33CE.

The Gospel account says shepherds were out at night with their flocks. They wouldn't have been during cold December, but could have been in October which according to scriptural evidence is when Jesus was born.
---David8318 on 12/25/12


'the feast on 25 December is not the celebration of a day, but of a FACT recorded in the Holy Gospels'- Cluny, 12/3/12 ('Beginnings of Christmas' blog).

Cluny hasn't explained how the December 25 pagan feast has anything to do with the FACT recorded in the Gospels. I've repeatedly asked cluny for his evidence linking Dec.25 to the Gospels. When he does that, I'll answer his questions.

Give actual names demands Cluny. Perhaps he also wants what they had for breakfast and their inside leg measurement! This is a plea of desperation. Let's try and ask the impossible, deflect attention from the blatantly obvious. The obvious truth that the Decemeber 25 feast was chosen not by scriptural means, but by pagan influences.
---David8318 on 12/25/12


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David, the first century church were MEMBERS OF (not "followers") the Way (Acts 9:2, 19:9, John 14:6).

The true church consists of all of the members of the true worship temple and are each an inner temple of the outer temple (John 2:19 and 21, "He was speaking of the temple of His body").

1 Corinthians 3:16 and 6:19 tell us that we are the inner temple.

"His spirit in the inner man" is our goal (Ephesians 3:16).
---more_excellent_way on 12/25/12


\\Early Christians did not celebrate birthdays or 'Christmas', so there is no reason or scriptural basis for early Christians to borrow anything from paganism.\\

Please provide historical documentation of your claim.

While you're at it, please give proof that the early Christians all had their personal copies of the Scriptures and computers.

Otherwise, you have no scriptural warrant to have either.

Happy Humbug to you.

To Christians: Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/25/12


David, **Early Christians did not celebrate birthdays**
Lack of evidence is not proof that it was not so!
Do scriptures show celebration of anniversaries? JWs celebrate anniversaries!
Why the difference???
In 4 thousand years of history,three incidences of tragedy on birthdays is enough to cancel all birthdays?????
How many automobile crashes would it take to stop driving???
---1st_cliff on 12/25/12


\\It is pagan christians- apostate church leaders who wanted pagan bums on pews who "took over" pagan practices and the pagan holy-day December 25 years after the event.\\

Can you give the actual NAMES of these church leaders who did so and provided the dates, David? This is what I have repeatedly asked, and you have refused. Constant repetition of something is NOT proof.

And David, did you know that churches did NOT have pews until after the Reformation?

Traditional Orthodox Churches and other Eastern Churches still do not.

But no matter how full pews are with bums, there's still room for YOU, David!

To Christians here: Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/25/12


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'Can anyone provide any appropriate quote from an early Christian writer to the effect, "Hey! Let's borrow the birth of Mithras or Sol Invictus and call it Christmas!'- Cluny.

Early Christians did not celebrate birthdays or 'Christmas', so there is no reason or scriptural basis for early Christians to borrow anything from paganism. While pagan Rome celebrated their Saturnalia on Dec.25, true Christians would have shunned such pagan festivities.

Rather, the hysterical cry "Hey! Let's borrow the birth of Mithras or Sol Invictus and call it Christmas!" was given by pagans disguised as 'christians'. True Christians do not celebrate Jesus' birthday, neither are they sucked into the pagan December 25 holy-day.
---David8318 on 12/25/12


'NO evidence from 3rd century Christian writers or earlier that they decided to take over a pagan holiday'- Cluny.

Christians didn't take over a pagan holiday because they did not celebrate Jesus birthday on December 25. There is no reason why they would do so!

While Rome celebrated their pagan Saturnalia on December 25, true Christians in the 1st Century onward would have avoided the pagan Dec.25 festivities like the plague. True Christians continue not to celebrate the December 25 pagan holy-day.

It is pagan christians- apostate church leaders who wanted pagan bums on pews who "took over" pagan practices and the pagan holy-day December 25 years after the event.
---David8318 on 12/25/12


\\According to the hypothesis suggested by H. Usener... and accepted by most scholars today, \\

A hypothesis is just a fancy name for guess. In other words, you have NO evidence from 3rd century Christian writers or earlier that they decided to take over a pagan holiday and make it the Nativity of Christ!

**"To all who suffer from christmas keeping, tree bowing pagans in christian wrapping paper,**

I don't know anyone who worships trees or suffers by keeping the Nativity of Christ. What's more, JMarc (who keeps on changing the spelling of his screen name) doesn't, either.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/25/12


One of the ancient heretics said that he refused to worship as God a mere infant wearing dirty diapers, only he didn't say dirty.

But for us Christians, it is glory for us to do so. This infant in dirty diapers is God Incarnate!

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/25/12


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The New Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges:

'The date of Christs birth is not known... According to the hypothesis suggested by H. Usener... and accepted by most scholars today, the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December25 in the Julian Calendar, January6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the "dies natalis Solis Invicti" (birthday of the invincible sun). On Dec.25, 274, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularly strong at Rome.'
---David8318 on 12/25/12


J. Mark, you now say,

"To all who suffer from christmas keeping, tree bowing pagans in christian wrapping paper, Who will afflict with repeated acts of cruelty those who show the truth of the lie they bought into: Hold on the real Christ!
You are not the first to to be belittled!"


You have been belittled by believing you are without sin. And that geniune believers worship trees or santa. What you are doing is defending the day the pagans and heathens use for their worship. you don't want anyone to worship Jesus on that day or any pagan holiday. You are standing on behalf of the idol worshippers. It is you who should repent today, ask God to forgive for making a new law that does not exist.
---Mark_V. on 12/25/12


The truth- Jesus was born 15 months after 'the Division of Abijah', the priestly division Zechariah served when Gabriel announced John's conception- Lu.1:5,26.

Of the 24 priestly divisions, the 'Division of Abijah' was the 8th to serve at the Temple (1Ch.24:10). Each division served twice a year for 1 week.

The divisions began serving after the 'festival of booths' (tabernacles) which closed the festive year- the 7th month, Tishri (Sept/Oct). The 1st round of 24 courses plus the 8th courses of the annual 2nd round would extend into the next Jewish year's 4th month.

Thus, the 8th divisions 2nd round fell (on our calendar) late June/early July when Gabriel appeared to Zechariah. Jesus was born 15mths later in early October.
---David8318 on 12/25/12


Even TheSeg dreams of dancing with demons and satanists. Oh dear...
David8318 on 12/24/12

Singing is done with the mouth, this is what I do. But, dancing has to be done with the whole body!
Now maybe, see if you can understand why it is, I cant dance!

But as you think about it, remember its not because I dont know how to dance.
Its because of a very small pus blister on foot.
I know one day, with the lord help it will just go away!

If only I could make it understand that.
But I know I cant, after all, God is the one who put it there.
And it is just a very small blister on foot.
Have a good day
---TheSeg on 12/24/12


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David, if YOU say I'm a pagan, then that means I'm a Christian, because if YOU were one, you would know that spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

If I have delusions of grandeur, you have delusions of adequacy.

And just what have I said on here that is pagan, besides disagreeing with you?

Happy Humbug to you.

Merry Christmas to Christians on here.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/24/12


Merry Christmas to all of my Christianet friends. May the joy that Mary, Joseph, the Shepherds and Wise Men felt be yours at this time, and throughout the coming year.
---Trish on 12/24/12


Please enlighten us how it is that being a pagan entitles one to be 'in the arms of Jesus'? Pagan Cluny is obviously suffering delusions of grandeur. But then again, Cluny veiws it a 'blessing' to be a pagan. Even TheSeg dreams of dancing with demons and satanists. Oh dear... sounds like Cluny and TheSeg have already hit the bottom of their whiskey bottles and are already stoned out of their brains.

I doubt whether anyone is going to get any sense out of these 2 pagans over the next few days.

Don't let pagan Cluny mislead you as he always does. It's not the Nativity thats based on a pagan feast. Its the pagan holy-day, December 25 which is based on the pagan feast. Jesus' birth has nothing to do with this pagan December 25 feast.
---David8318 on 12/24/12


God bless cnet and all the family.

Praising God for the birth of His Son
---chria9396 on 12/24/12


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I would just like to add, to anyone who wishes to Praises his name on Christmas.
Many will tell you it a pagan ritual, in essence trying to stop you, from Praises his name on Christmas!

Instead of joining in, and singing with the angles in Heaven.
I say this, because on whatever day you praise his name.
Rest assured, the angles and all the heavenly hosts are right there with you singing!

This is why I said in sincerity, if I saw devils singing praises, I would join them!
Dont let anyone diminish your Christmas, you are not singing to a pagan ritual.
But to the one true God in heaven, everyday belongs to him.

No matter what some misguided might thing!
Merry Christmas!
Peace
---TheSeg on 12/24/12


People are saying that the Nativity is based on a pagan feast.

What is the evidence?

Can anyone provide any appropriate quote from an early Christian writer to the effect, "Hey! Let's borrow the birth of Mithras or Sol Invictus and call it Christmas!"

Please oblige me.

Merry Christmas to Christians here.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/24/12


To all who suffer from christmas keeping, tree bowing pagans in christian wrapping paper, Who will afflict with repeated acts of cruelty those who show the truth of the lie they bought into:

Hold on the real Christ!
You are not the first to to be belittled!

2nd Tim. 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I AM NOT ASHAMED: for I KNOW WHOM I have believed, and am persuaded that HE is able to keep that which I have committed unto HIM against that day.
---jmark on 12/24/12


\\Pagans cluny and TheSeg feign ignorance of their pagan identities and their pagan December 25 holy-day. \\

I'm glad you think I'm a pagan. That means I'm saved and safe in the arms of Jesus.

Keep blessing me and increasing my heavenly treasure.

Happy Humbug to you.

Merry Christmas to the Christians on here.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/23/12


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And know this too, David8318.
If I saw a bunch of devils celebrating the birth of Christ on October 31!
Right at the stroke of twelve!

Yes David, Devil on Old Witches Eve!
I would gladly join them, and sing Praises to his name!

Then sit with a real fool, pointing fingers and calling name.
Because of something he couldnt possibly begin to understand!

The last thing is, yes David, you are a hypocrite!
For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law.
Judgment! Mercy! and faith!
These ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone!
Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Foolish, foolish man!
---TheSeg on 12/23/12


Pagans cluny and TheSeg feign ignorance of their pagan identities and their pagan December 25 holy-day.

As stated previously, even if the Bible supplied the exact date of Jesus' birth (by the way it doesn't), TheSeg's and cluny's of the world would still dream up some excuse to link their pagan December 25 festival with a Biblical event. These pagan characters must at all costs keep the pagan holy-day December 25 and festivities alive and kicking. Dec.25 celebrations have nothing to do with Jesus Christ but everything to do with paganism and falsehood.

Having scriptural quotes misapplied by someone such as TheSeg heavily involved with the pagan Dec.25 celebration holds no weight with me and cannot be taken seriously.
---David8318 on 12/23/12


O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

//Let's celebrate every day the fact that Jesus was born!//
So, since you said lets, do you? No right!
Youre just telling us too.

The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat!
Mat_23:3 for they say, and do not!
Mat_23:25-26!

But no, you had to add in pagans!
As if, Im better then, they!
Is not December 25, one of the everydays you spoke of?
So David8318, arent you being a pagan!

Peace
---TheSeg on 12/23/12


I would also like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas day in celebration of the the birth of Christ, in the name of the Lord. And a wonderful and safe New Year. Even you J. Marc. I'm sorry you feel guilty and have to ask for forgiveness. But it is your right disagree. Be safe during this holidays and we hope to see you continue to debate other matters of faith.
This holidays is hard for so many, and my prayers are for everyone who is going through great tribulations with family, a lost relative, jobs, marriage, food and sickness, and their spiritual faith. Let us continue to see your names come up so that we know you are doing ok. Peace to everyone and many blessings in the name of Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 12/23/12


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\\Lets not be squeezed into the pagan mold of 'celebrating' the pagan mithra-mas on December 25 as do the pagans under the veneer of false christianity.\\

I know nobody who celebrates Mithras, and what's more, you don't either. You just think you do.

Merry Christmas to Christians on here and a Happy Humbug to you.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/22/12


I agree TheSeg, let's celebrate every day the fact that Jesus was born- not just on the one day as dictated by pagans.

Lets not be squeezed into the pagan mold of 'celebrating' the pagan mithra-mas on December 25 as do the pagans under the veneer of false christianity.

Yes lets shout from the rooftops Jesus' birth life and more importantly, his death.

Always remember- pagans will want to celebrate on their sacred holy day December 25. Even if the Bible gave the exact date of Jesus' birth, pagans would still celebrate on December 25.
---David8318 on 12/22/12


I pray that Christ's birthday will overshadow everthing on this special day every year.
---shira4368 on 12/22/12


Blessed be the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ to one and all...glory in the highest.
---Rod4Him on 12/22/12


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We're not to celebrate Christ's birth?

Luk_2:8 in the same country shepherds abiding in the field.
(Minding-their-own-business!)

When lo,the angel of the Lord came upon them!

Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy.
Which shall be to all people, for unto you is born a Saviour!

Ye shall find the babe, lying in a manger!
(Go and look!)

Here!
And suddenly (a multitude of the heavenly host) praising God, and saying:
Glory to God in the highest!

(And when they had seen it, they made known abroad) the saying which was told them concerning this child.

So, if anyone feels you shouldnt celebrate the birth of Christ!
YELL THIS OUT FROM THE ROOF-TOPS, Psalms 148!
Merry Christmas!
---TheSeg on 12/22/12


Sis.RitaH.hello, this is ELENA. If you be so kind, not hold you up too long eh, what kind of food you cook for Christmas & does your church have
a special drama or something in store for the little ones? Thankyou.blessing be yours for christmas.
---ELENA on 12/22/12


JMarc, please forgive me if my greeting offended you. I honestly did not mean to. I realize we are not told to celebrate Christ's birth, but I've not seen anywhere where we're told not to either. So, for now, I feel no guilt in doing so. However, I don't want to offend you, so for that, I'm sincerely sorry:-(
---Reba on 12/21/12


J Marc - do you think that God appreciates sarcasm posing as prayer?
---Rita_H on 12/21/12


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Hi, I'm having a bad day but it's truly not the "end of the world" for me or I guess the rest of us lol! :D God bless us all, Mary
---Mary on 12/21/12


reba..thanks. i will wait until today is over. it could end any minute even though on the other side of the world in some spots...it is already 12/22
---aka on 12/21/12


Our Father in Heaven,
It was a public sin, so i pray pubicaly.
i humbly confess and beg forgiveness for me, my Father, and Grand Fathers of the disobedience we commited.

Christmas trees we put up,

giving Santa lists of things we wanted but did't need,

teaching our children songs that teach lies,

gluttonising our selves at the festivities,

putting up the mistletoe,

celebrating the birthday of Christ when you never commanded it.

Forgive us Lord of these abominations.

i repent!

In the name of the one true Christ, Yashua the Anointed Messiah, the real Jesus, Amen
---J_Marc on 12/21/12


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