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Does The World Affect Christians

Do you think that everything happening in today's world - the knowledge, the technology - has changed the way christians think than they did 2,000 years ago? Do you think that commercials, the news and other current events has adversely affected the christian mind? How do you suppose is behind this?

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In apologetics, every one has their champion. Of the trinitarian doctrine, it has it's champions too, and yes, bible verses are interpreted to its favor. Such as Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.
---bike on 1/18/13


Genesis 1:26 Then God said, Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the.... Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The Trinity is an imperfect doctrine, but there is still a Bible basis for it. All three persons are mentioned in scripture. YHWH, the Father. Y'shua, the firstborn of creation through whom all other things were made, the spirit, the counselor, the comforter. The Father is greater than the son. Only the Father knows the day. Y'shua does not consider equality with God something to be grasped, yet he is ONE with the father. To see Christ is to see God.
---bike on 1/18/13


'Jesus... apply to himself a scripture that applied to Jehovah'- Ruben.

Jesus quotes Psalm 118:26, "Blessed is he that comes in Jehovahs name!" Jesus certainly did come in Jehovah's name. Just as an emissary may come 'in the name of a King or Queen', so Jesus comes "in the name of Jehovah". Who else!?

Jesus coming 'in the name of Jehovah' means Jesus would not do a 'single thing' unless his Father told him so- Jo.5:19. 'Disowning' the son meant disowning the Father- Matt.10:32.

Thus, just as disowning Jesus would be disowning the Father, likewise praising Jesus would also mean praising Jehovah. Applying Ps.8:2 to himself in that situation does not mean Jesus is Jehovah.
---David8318 on 1/18/13


'if most of us here are ignorant concerning the trinity...'- shira.

"IF"!? Its not "IF"... the fact is you are ignorant of the trinity shira!

You are scripturally ignorant! I'm still waiting for you to show me chapter and verse where your mantra 'God the Father, God the Son. God the Holy Ghost' appears. When you've done that, then I'll move on to show you what Messiah means.

If you can't prove your belief by scripture, you preach a false gospel.

Jesus is 'God's Son'- Luke 1:35. Jesus said, "it is Jehovah God you must worship (YHWH)"- Matthew 4:10 (Jesus here quoted Deut.10:20 where God's name appears in Hebrew- YHWH).
---David8318 on 1/18/13


david, if most of us here are ignorant concerning the trinity, please enlighten us. also, tell us about Messiah and what it means. actually I know what trinity and Messiah mean but I would love to hear your "opinion" from scripture.
---shira4368 on 1/18/13




//Aka expressed disdain that some believe Jesus became the Messiah only at his baptism.//

disdain? i did?

if you want to "wrestle" some more with yourself, that is fine with me.
---aka on 1/17/13


Shira4368- if you think I'm blind, that makes both of us! You can't find your trinitarian mantra 'God the Father, Son & holy ghost' in the Bible either! You're incapable of finding it because its not Biblical. Trinitarian belief is scripturally impotent.

1 John 5:7 has been corrupted by trinitarians- its a well known trinitarian spurious verse. This trinitarian corruption is not in early Greek manuscripts. The Revised Standard & Jerusalem Bibles (and others) omit this trinitarian corruption.

Matthew 12:32 in fact teaches there is a difference between the Son of man and the holy spirit. If they are 'co-equal', why is there a different outcome for both as described at Matt 12:32? Obviously there is a difference!
---David8318 on 1/17/13


MarkV- I have asked aka to define what 'Messiah' means, not shira. Aka expressed disdain that some believe Jesus became the Messiah only at his baptism.

This is because aka and trinitarianism in general from previous experience fail to grasp the understanding that for anyone to be termed 'Messiah', there must have bee a beginning of that Messiahship. Trinitarians will argue Jesus has always been the Messiah. But if trinitarians knew what Messiah means, they would realise that is not the case.

I will wait for aka to respond. He claims not to be trinitarian, perhaps aka is a closet trinitarian with a conscience. Does aka know what Messiah means?
---David8318 on 1/17/13


david, I too have studied bible for many years. satan has blinded you from the truth. I believe in the fundamentals of God's Word. I know some people who are saved and dont believe the same as me.
---shira4368 on 1/17/13


Shira- you are kidding yourself and allowing the false religious organisation you belong to dupe you into believing the trinitarian mantra you falsely claim to be in the Bible.

The KingJames doesn't contain trinity or your trinitarian mantra. You can't find it can you?

You have been brainwashed into believing it is in the Bible when its not. You suffer from the 'Emperors New Clothes' syndrome. Your falsehoods are just as bare and openly exposed!

Don't worry about me, I've studied the Bible for many years, and its absolutely clear as you demonstrate, the trinitarian mantra is no where to be found, is it shira!?

The truth has 'set me free' from your falsehood and those of your apostate church leaders- John 8:32.
---David8318 on 1/17/13




David, you asked a lot of dumb questions but avoid answering many with Scripture. You never told us what "Messiah" or "Christ" meant. What constitutes a "messiah"? and who is Christ? Notice I did not say 'Jesus." I am still waiting.
---Mark_V. on 1/17/13


david, 1 John 5:7 ----Matthew 12:32----Matthew 28:19----also John 1:1. I have never seen anyone just ignore the Holy Bible. david, I am not catholic and don't know what catholics believe and don't care either. maybe you are atheist since you don't believe the Word of God. it is evident you never have studied the bible. get yourself a good king james bible and study it.
---shira4368 on 1/16/13


"but my king james has God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost"- shira4368.

Shira- why do you keep on lying!? The King James Bible does not have your trinitarian mantra 'God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost'. If it does you would have quoted chapter and verse by now. If it is in your KJ Bible, you've probably written it in there yourself! Why do you persist in these false religious lies? It is not in any Bible translation just as 'trinity' is not in any Bible translation. You are teaching falsehoods, lies and deceit.

The trinitarian mantra 'God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost' is not in the Bible. It is part of the RCC Catechism- a man-made doctrine to explain a pagan myth.
---David8318 on 1/16/13


'Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13). Hello David? Did you read that?'- MarkV.

Yes, so what? We say 'Peter and Paul' do you believe they're one and the same? 'King and Prince', are they one and the same? 'Our great God and Savior Jesus Christ', are they one and the same? Only in the eyes of pagan trinitarians.

The holy spirit is not described as 'saviour'. Ti.2:13 is not teaching 'trinity'. Jesus is my saviour- but 'Salvation belongs to Jehovah'- that's a truth you cannot grasp.

Before you get too comfortable on your high horse, are you not in fact playing the hypocrite? Trinitarians twist and add words at John 14:14, 17:11, and corrupt 1 John 5:7.
---David8318 on 1/16/13


David, I am still waiting for your J. Witness answers. Do not avoid them, seeing as to how you seem to know what "messiah" and "Christ" mean.
---Mark_V. on 1/16/13


The trinity is a man-made dogma to explain a man-made pagan myth.
---David8318 on 1/16/13

David,

In the book of Rev the mystery woman had a cup in her hand v17:4, the Lord has a cup in his hand (Ps. 75:8).

The pagn kings sat on thrones and wear cowns . So does the Lord . (Rev. 1:4, 14:14).

The pagan gods had temple dedicated to them, We see the Lord himself has a temple (Rev. 7:15).

Do you need more:)
---Ruben on 1/16/13


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david, who do you think the Holy Spirit is and who Jesus Christ is and who is God to you? you must have one of those perversion bible but my king james has God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. no the word trinity is not in my bible never the less, the trinity is real. do you believe Jesus was God in the flesh? the word rapture is not in the bible but we surely will be caught up to forever be with the Lord....eternally. John 1:1, says In the beginning was the Word (which is Jesus) and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
---shira4368 on 1/16/13


cont...to david..1 John is all about Jesus sending the comforter when He accends into heaven. who do you think the comforter is? read all of 1 John. How do you think one is saved? markv don't believe the way I do either. my bible is plainly written (12th grade level) and it teaches there are three persons in one...the one being God.
---shira4368 on 1/16/13


David8318 * Ruben not so long ago told us all exactly where your trinitarian mantra came from- the RCC Catechism, paragraph 253 according to Ruben.

Please explain to me in 'Your' own words what the trinity is?

David8318 * The trinity is a man-made dogma to explain a man-made pagan myth.

David,

Today we use the word 'janitor' even though it comes from Janus, the Roman god of doors and gates! If you eat cereal or have before, it comes from Ceres, the goddess of grains. Even the words Alpha and Omega is Greek..Taken a stand against "paganism" is foolish, the pagans pray and kneel to thier gods then we should also reject it and not do the same to God our Father!
---Ruben on 1/16/13


Shira- you haven't shown where your trinitarian mantra 'God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit' appears in the Bible. Neither have you shown where 'trinity' appears. How can you say its 'all thru the Bible'. You have been duped.

All the verses you cite clearly speak of 'God's son' or 'the Son of God' which is hugely different to the twist you put on those scriptures by saying 'God the Son'.

Lets cut to the chase. Your trinitarian mantra and the word 'trinity' is not in the Bible because it is not a Bible teaching. Ruben not so long ago told us all exactly where your trinitarian mantra came from- the RCC Catechism, paragraph 253 according to Ruben.

The trinity is a man-made dogma to explain a man-made pagan myth.
---David8318 on 1/16/13


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David, you answered sis. Shira with:

"You obviously don't understand what 'Messiah' or 'Christ' means. Not surprising as you're a trinitarian."

To oppose her view, you suggest she does not know what the word "Messiah" means in Scripture, meaning you do otherwise you would not say that.
So I challenge you to show us, what makes a messiah? Who does he have to be in order for him to be legit? And what does the word "Christ" mean to you? I will be waiting for your J.Witness answer.
---Mark_V. on 1/16/13


All natural chemicals are of God and any chemical that is manmade is not good.
---Steveng on 1/13/13

Just be careful when using that plastic keyboard ok.
---Scott1 on 1/15/13


//satan tried to destroy the bloodline of Jesus---shira4368 on 1/14/13//


I can agree with this.

Y'sha-God Savior
Immanuel: God with us
King of king/Lord of lords

Shalom



---char on 1/14/13


I said the trinity is all thru the bible. satan tried to destroy the bloodline of Jesus so that means the bible is about Jesus. God is also all thru the bible. just read how He sent His Son to die for us. when Jesus accended up to heaven, He left the comforter which is the Holy Spirit. now please look up 1st John 5:7 and Matthew 28:14.
---shira4368 on 1/14/13


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David8318

In the NWT Matthew 21:6-9 it reads :

" Blessed is he that comes in Jehovahs name!"

" they became indignant and said to him: Do you hear what these are saying?

"Jesus said to them: Yes. Did YOU never read this, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklingsyou have furnished praise?

Jesus quoted Psalm 8:1-2

"O Jehovah our Lord,.. You whose dignity is recounted above the heavens! Out of the mouth of children and sucklings.."

Jesus did not silence them but apply to himself a scripture that applied to Jehovah.

FYI-Jesus and God the Father are different persons but they are equal in nature as Almighty God.
---Ruben on 1/14/13


david, I did answer your question about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost.
---shira4368 on 1/13/13


It's true that chemicals are both natural and manmade, but in most people's eyes it's manmade. All natural chemicals are of God and any chemical that is manmade is not good.
---Steveng on 1/13/13


david, i am not a trinitarian, but you are a jehovah witness. we will all bow down to the Truth.
---aka on 1/13/13


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'became the Messiah at His baptism'- Aka.

You obviously don't understand what 'Messiah' or 'Christ' means. Not surprising as you're a trinitarian.

I doubt whether we would disagree that names and titles such as 'Michael', 'archangel', or 'spirit creature' appear in the Bible. We could argue all day if these are applied to Jesus. But (another big one) that wasn't my point.

My issue is where in the Bible does the trinitarian mantra 'God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost' appear. Shira4368 says its everywhere. Yet she can't find one verse to prove. That means she is either lying, or has been duped and "affected by the World".
---David8318 on 1/13/13


David, to argue your point you give (Psa. 3:8) indication that Jehovah is our Savior. Suggesting Jesus Christ is not your Savior but Jehovah is. Then you suggest I never gave you Scripture that Jesus was God. Here, let me help you.
"Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13). Hello David? Did you read that? And here is how corrupt you New World Translation is, it changed the words of the passages to read,
"While we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of the Savior of us, Christ Jesus." Just a little of twisting of words yet it still says Jesus is our Savior. I wonder why? Because He is God our Savior.
---Mark_V. on 1/13/13


\\David, you say to me:

"In reality, trinitarians cannot be born again Christian. 'Christian' and 'trinitarian' are a contradiction in terms."\\

David says that because he's not really a born again Christian himself.

No one who says what David says can be one.

Christ is baptized! In the Jordan!
---Cluny on 1/12/13


I was not living 2000 years ago. So how would I know? If the born-agains do what they are suppose to do, stay in prayer and snuggling with their GOD, we can shut out much of the world, unless you are called by Him into doing something. And then you can retreat unto your God, again, till next calling. Good advice. Thank You Jesus.
---pat on 1/12/13


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David8318:

War in general (and the first two World Wars in particular) are created by greed - greed for land, lust for power, etc. Greed and lust are not, by any means, Christian values - whether or not those Christians are trinitarian or not. Can you cite ANY "trinitarian" Christian teaching ANYWHERE that actually teaches that invading other countries and killing people is a GOOD thing? If you can, I would love to hear it.

At one time, Jesus taught his disciples to sell their swords and buy cloaks. But at another time, he told them to sell their spare cloaks and buy a sword. Evidently, he realized that BOTH peace and war had thier places.
---StrongAxe on 1/12/13


David8318, I could use 1 John 5:7, but...
John5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Christ taught that he is equal with God. This outraged the Jews because this declares Christ to be God! Only his Son could be his equal.

Zec13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

God says Christ is his fellow (Hebrew word: amiyth, which means "comrad, associate, companion, kindred." God is declaring Christ to be his Son and equal.
---trey on 1/12/13


Shira4368, none of the verses you cite include your trinitarian mantra.

Matt.16:27- 'Son of man' not 'God the Son' as you believe. He 'comes in his Fathers glory...' not his own. No 'trinity' here.

Romans 1:3-4, 'the Son of God', not 'God the Son' as you believe. No 'trinity' here either.

Romans 8:3 again- 'God's Son', not 'God the Son'. Notice God sent his Son, not himself. Again no 'trinity' here.

Romans 1:4, 'God's Son', Galatians 4:6, 'God sent the spirit of his Son'. 'Trinity' no where mentioned! Even Matt.28:19 doesn't include your mantra or 'trinity'.

Who taught you the trinitarian mantra 'God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost'?
---David8318 on 1/12/13


'The One in the Bible is God'- MarkV

Yet MarkV cannot show where the Bible specifically states 'Jesus is God'. MarkV is the one who preaches a different Jesus. I believe what the Bible teaches- Jesus is the 'Son of God'.

MarkV you preach a totally different Jesus, a Jesus who is and always will be the Father and creator of Satan the Devil. A Jesus who created a burning fiery hell to torture people. MarkV you preach what is apostate and blasphemous! How could you possibly be 'born again'!

There is no salvation through pagan trinitarianism. Trinity negates the power of salvation through a Messiah.

"Salvation belongeth unto Jehovah"- Psalms 3:8 (ASV, DBY, YLT).
---David8318 on 1/12/13


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Aka- I will answer your questions. But...david

Everybody has a big but.
---aka on 1/11/13


david, I answered your question. I wasn't on computer for several days. If I had online I would have answered you the same day. who do you think the Holy Spirit is? who do you think the Son is? who do you think God is? now answer my question just posed to you.
---shira4368 on 1/11/13


David, you say to me:

"In reality, trinitarians cannot be born again Christian. 'Christian' and 'trinitarian' are a contradiction in terms."

David- as if your opinion matters as to who born again Christians are! Do you think I or anyone cares who you don't believe to be born again? Certainly isn't your decision. Of course it is not my decision. What I do know is if you have a different Jesus Christ from the One in the Bible, you could not possibly be born again. The One in the Bible is God. You have a created angel as your Savior, the brother of Satan, we have God as our Savior. From beginning to end, salvation is of the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 1/11/13


//Please...quote me book, chapter and verse from the Bible that contains the trinitarian doctrine: "God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost". David8318 // Matthew 28:19..baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
---Adetunji on 1/11/13


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(Matthew 28:19)---(Matthew 16:27)---(Romans 1:3-4)----(Romans 8:3)----(Romans 1:4)--(Galatians 4:6)--there are many more if you would find them. All these speak of the trinity.
---shira4368 on 1/11/13


DAVID 8318 -on - 1 /10/13 - Quote me book , chapter and verse from the Bible that contains the trintarian doctrine --

1 JOHN 5:7 FOR there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost : and these three are One .


JOHN 1:14 - And the Word was made Flesh, And dwelt among us, ( and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father ,) Full of grace and truth.
---RICHARDC on 1/11/13


Aka- I will answer your questions. But I will wait until I've received a reply to my question to shira as to where in the Bible does the trinitarian mantra 'God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost' appears. Shira is taking a long time over it. Are you able to help shira?

Apparently its "all through the Bible" according to shira. Strange how shira is not able to produce the many scripture texts to support her belief.

Perhaps you and shira use the same cop out reasoning used for the December 25 pagan festival- 'we've believed in it for so long, therefore it must be the truth'.
---David8318 on 1/11/13


Shira4368- If you want me to answer your questions, try answering mine first please.

I've asked you to cite chapter and verse from the Bible, where your trinitarian mantra 'God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost' appears? "It is all thru the bible" was your assertion. Please show us all where?

I will answer your questions if you have the courtesy to answer mine. I have not said trinitarians 'caused' WWI and II. But your suggestion trinitarians caused WWI & II, perhaps there may be a case for arguing trinitarians did.
---David8318 on 1/11/13


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//Please...quote me book, chapter and verse from the Bible that contains the trinitarian doctrine: "God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost".// David8318

Please quote me book, chapter and verse from the Bible that says Jesus was a spirit creature, Michael the archangel, who was created by God and became the Messiah at His baptism.

Please enlighten us all!

Jesus is the Son of God!
---aka on 1/11/13


Steveng: Whatever gets your/my/our attention gets you/me/us. That is why the Bible teaches us to meditate on God's word day & night. We're to listen to, faithfully hear, pay attention to & obey the Lord ~ not the devil.

It's not today's knowledge or technology that changes Christians. It's how we choose to use it, i.e., either to the glory of God or to our own destruction.

The Bible says we're in the world, but we're not to be of it. That is to say, our life on planet earth is in an environment where sin abounds, but we're not to take part in sinful activities. To do so is to worship "the god of this world", satan, the devil.
---Leon on 1/10/13


david8318, what is a trinitarian? how did they cause WW1 and WW2?
---shira4368 on 1/10/13


MarkV- as if your opinion matters as to who born again Christians are! Do you think I or anyone cares who you don't believe to be born again? Certainly isn't your decision.

In reality, trinitarians cannot be born again Christian. 'Christian' and 'trinitarian' are a contradiction in terms.

C T Russell taught far more Biblical truth than any apostate trinitarian. Had my father and grandfather not been trinitarians, they would not have been killed in the trinitarian sponsored World Wars of the 20th century. I know enough of Satanic trinitarianism to know it fosters war and death on an industrial scale. Apostate trinitarian church leaders and their padre imps are responsible for 'blessing' warfare sending millions to an early grave.
---David8318 on 1/10/13


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'the bible teaches us there is God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost'- shira 4368.

Please shira 4368 quote me book, chapter and verse from the Bible that contains the trinitarian doctrine: "God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost".

Please enlighten us all!

When you haven't found it in the Bible I will tell you where you haven't been told it comes from.

Jesus is 'the Son of God'.
---David8318 on 1/10/13


David, your heart is so hardened now that there is no turning back. You give advice and accuse others with your false cultic believes. You know more about pagan and heathens then you know about the Eternal Son of God. You have the wrong jesus, so the wrong god. When you get saved, then come back and argue your points. Jehovah Witnesses are not born again Christians. They believed the lies of Charles Russell and all their false teachings. My sister died for your faith. There is little I don't know about Jehovah Witnesses.
---Mark_V. on 1/10/13


david 8318: I cannot believe you say there is no trinity. It is all thru the bible. the bible teaches us there is God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost. If you can't believe part of the bible, you probably don't believe in any of it.
---shira4368 on 1/9/13


'doesn't even believe Jesus Christ is God'- MarkV.

The false 'Jesus is God' belief is itself from pagan trinity concepts found in many pagan cultures. MarkV is affected by the man-made pagan trinity doctrine and Dec.25 festival dubbed "christmas".

The 'great apostasy' Paul warned true Christians is seen in false teachings of trinity and December 25 pagan festivals (2 Thess.2:3).

Christians celebrate Jesus' birth every day and not dictated to by apostate church leaders who adopted pagan Dec.25 festival in the 3rd/4th Century. Yes pagans have other holy-days but Dec.25 is their most sacred holy-day and must be commemorated.

Even if Jesus' birth date was known, pagans would still celebrate on December25.
---David8318 on 1/9/13


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David, so what your saying is, since pagans worship the 25th we should not worship or celebrate Jesus because that day belongs to pagan's already, right? We should not celebrate anyday they have. And they also have many other days, and we should find out which ones they are and not celebrate Jesus those days either because it makes us pagans. And if we do not find out which days they are we are pagan's. You make a written Law, when God made no law against celebrating Jesus birthday? And when you said pagan Christians choose that day, how do you know they were pagan christians? Could you see their hearts? You judge them because they chose that day. You, who doesn't even believe Jesus Christ is God, so who are you to tell others they are pagans?
---Mark_V. on 1/9/13


The reason being because it wasn't by accident Dec.25 was chosen by apostate church leaders- ie Julius I (350AD). It wasn't because the Bible instructed Christians to celebrate Jesus' birth on Dec.25, but because Dec.25 was already used by pagans to celebrate the 'rebirth' of the sun. How convenient for apostate christianity to adopt this already popular false religious festival as the 'birth of God the Son'.
---David8318 on 1/9/13

Not how convenient, how about how smart they were to do that. Tell the pagans of that time the real birth is ' God the Son!
---Ruben on 1/9/13


'Why is it wrong just because of your understanding of pagan worship?'- MarkV.

Does your ignorance of December 25 make it right?

This is where a spiritual man, who has the facts to hand, who can peer into a situation and make an informed decision as to whether any given situation is right or wrong.

Given the fact the Bible doesn't tell us the date of Jesus' birth, the obvious question would be why has Dec.25 been chosen... plus all the Xmas paraphinalia? You won't find the answer in the Bible. Dec.25 was used by pagans long before Jesus was born.

To paganised 'christians', ignorance is bliss. To sincere Christians, the truth is far more precious.
---David8318 on 1/9/13


"celebrate His birth"- MarkV.

I don't discourage celebrating Jesus' birth. My issue is why do professed "christians" insist on religiously celebrating Jesus' birth on December 25? Jesus' birth should be celebrated every day! I believe, as the blog title suggests- the 'World has affected YOU'!

The reason being because it wasn't by accident Dec.25 was chosen by apostate church leaders- ie Julius I (350AD). It wasn't because the Bible instructed Christians to celebrate Jesus' birth on Dec.25, but because Dec.25 was already used by pagans to celebrate the 'rebirth' of the sun. How convenient for apostate christianity to adopt this already popular false religious festival as the 'birth of God the Son'.
---David8318 on 1/9/13


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David, I only heard one guy here claim He knew the date Jesus was born, he is no longer around. I believe that almost all Christians know that the date is not exact, and that it could be any day. That it happens to be the day it was chosen, means really nothing unless someone wants to speak for the pagans and heathens. But we are not pagans and heathens. We don't care what they do or what they worship. We are children of God, we worship the Lord and celebrate His birth in Christmas. We are not commanded not to. There is no law that tells us never to do that. We rejoice in His birth, just like those who rejoiced when He was born.
Why is it wrong just because of your understanding of pagan worship?
---Mark_V. on 1/7/13


'Few people have actually claimed that Jesus was born on 25 December'- Cluny.

I'm not so sure about Cluny's off the cuff comment here. Again no source references. If you check out the Anglican and RCC websites, they all proclaim 'the birth of our Lord Jesus' on December 25. Both the Archbishop and the Pope are eager to give their "blessings" to the faithful on December 25, their most sacred holy-day. To say 'few claim Jesus was born on Dec.25' is a fallacy. Millions are misled by these apostate church leaders.

Yes the Jews used the moon. There is a difference however between using and worshipping the moon. They used the moon to calculate when they were to worship not the moon... but their God Yahweh (Jehovah).
---David8318 on 1/6/13


2 Timothy 2:4 - No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who has chosen him to be a soldier.
---RICHARDC on 1/4/13


\\Where is Cluny's evidence that pagan December 25 has anything to do with the Gospel account of Jesus' birth?\\

Few people have actually claimed that Jesus was born on 25 December, as I have said before, though some have deduced various reasons for it having NOTHING to do with the winter solstice or any pagan feast.

This is simply when most of the pre-Reformation churches have CHOSEN to observe it.

May I add that though the pagans worshipped the moon as a deity, this did NOT stop the Hebrews from using a LUNAR calendar (like most pagans did, even mahometans do so), and basing holy days upon it. Even the New Moon is a minor monthly feast with special prayers.

Happy New Year!

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 1/3/13


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'Communists have no bone to pick'- Cluny.

So the 'Encyclopedia Britannica' or the 'New Catholic Encyclopedia' and all the online encyclopedia's are also "communist" are they?

Rather than having a 'bone to pick with Gospels', the 'Great Soviet Enc.' in fact defends the Gospel from Cluny's pagan onslaught.

Why is it when anyone is critical of the December 25 festival, Cluny immediately assumes they are critical of the Gospel? Why does Cluny constantly associate December 25 with the Gospel's?

Where is Cluny's evidence that pagan December 25 has anything to do with the Gospel account of Jesus' birth?
---David8318 on 1/2/13


If SDAs did this on Saturday, they were violating the Sabbath Commandment, which commands that animals be allowed to rest then, too.

Happy New Year!

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/31/12
Nice that you ended the year with one of you not so funny jokes

Happy New year to you too my friend.
---francis on 1/1/13


\\Times was whan christians walked from town to town to spread the gospel, used horse drawn carts,\\

If SDAs did this on Saturday, they were violating the Sabbath Commandment, which commands that animals be allowed to rest then, too.

Happy New Year!

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/31/12


Christians have always taken advantage of the technology afforded them.

Times was whan christians walked from town to town to spread the gospel, used horse drawn carts, used mail, used cars,
used radio, used TV, now internet is used
---francis on 12/30/12


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The Great Soviet Encyclopedia is a wonderful source of truthful information about Church history, because as we all know, Communists have no bone to pick with the Gospel. Therefore everything it says on this subject will be accurate and unbiased.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/30/12


'How do you suppose is behind this?' Perhaps 'who' is responsible?

December 25, supposed birthday of Christ. Who is behind this lie? ANS, according to the 'Encyclopedia Britannica', the 'Great Soviet Encyclopedia', the 'New Catholic Encyclopedia' plus numeous online encyclopedia's all agree it is not because the Bible says December 25th, but because the Bishop of Rome, Julius I in 350AD decided to adopt December 25 as the birthday of Christ.To get pagan bums on pews agreed to use the pagan Roman Saturnalia and Mithra festivals. Pope Gregory I is also complicit in this apostasy.

Millions have been adversely affected by this apostasy instigated by bent leaders of RCC/Unorthodox churches.
---David8318 on 12/30/12


No. The same evil desires and issues that the first century christians faced we are still facing them. The methods have changed but the root elements of false security, false acceptance, love of money and power are still the same.
---Scott1 on 12/28/12


Satan has always had his ways of advertising, of getting our attention away from God. "And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body, and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15) Mostly it is in us where we need to make sure we are not effected by this world. Jesus says, "Let not your heart be troubled," in John 14:27.

We need to make sure we are in the ruling of God's peace in our hearts so nothing and no one has power to get us troubled in unforgiveness and depression and arguing and complaining and lusts which can dominate us and trouble us.
---willie_c: on 12/28/12


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Family, yes! Most well known singers,not even come to a church,public event or collisium - cater the mega church groups' they will not even show up for example here in Michigan unless garantee up front min. $8,000+ full cater food for their entourage + hotel paid/ that guaranteed before get here some of their former members, told me. People long ago they sang & gave their best to win souls! Love of money is the root of all evil. 1Tim.6:6-10.The bible talks about don't get caught up like the world does! I believe things have certainly changed.when my grandmother snuck :) and took me to church, they didn't even have a piano, we sang & kept up hand chaping/ foot moving! We had a real holy ghost filled service!
---ELENA on 12/27/12


"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." John 16:33

"I have given them thy word, and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." John 17:14-17

Do you believe what Christ said? If you do, "be of good cheer" for Christ has already "overcome the world".
---christan on 12/27/12


//How do you suppose is behind this?//

supposing you mean 'who' i would say the adversary. the new world order was established when Satan likened himself to God and he implemented the plan in the Garden of Eden through A & E. don't think anything has changed in most of the people over time except God has implemented his will through his son.

it's not what goes in that defiles, it is the wickedness in the heart that is already there.
---aka on 12/27/12


"Do you think that everything happening in today's world - the knowledge, the technology - has changed the way christians think than they did 2,000 years ago?" Of course
"Do you think that commercials, the news and other current events has adversely affected the christian mind?" If "the Christian" has allowed it to.
"[Who] do you suppose is behind this?" The god of this world
---joseph on 12/27/12


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matthew 21:12 the money changers were in the temple and Jesus over turned the tables. they were making money at God's temple. that should be a warning for tv preachers who try to get rich on people who don't know any better.
---shira4368 on 12/26/12


\\during christ time he said that the pharisees 'love their money & title'.\\

Please give the book, chapter, and verse that confirm that Jesus said this.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/26/12


during christ time he said that the pharisees 'love their money & title'. it still applies today...many televangelist love their money & their title as CEOs.it is not just techonology & knowledge.
---mike on 12/26/12


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