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How To Get Righteous

Is Christ's righteousness imputed to us? If it is how do we obtain it or what do we have to do to obtain this righteousness?

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 ---trey on 12/29/12
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Haz27 on 1/5/13

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,..Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them,

Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not Kill.

Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet

Which of these do you think A christian who is saved by grace, not under the law, disobey?
---francis on 1/6/13


He already completed each path - there is only One that leads to Him when followed----His Word.
The Work has been done.

Heb 10:10
By the (which will) we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
(which will) ----completed what was written as sacrifices for sins---

The death and resurrection (complete action) paid the price with His Blood.
He was born in flesh, Immanuel God with us, Ysha-God savior
Gen 22:8
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Ps 40:7-9, 1Jn 1,2,3,4,5 (all)
---char on 1/6/13


If it is His Word---He confirms it.John 14,15,16

Ps 40:7-9,Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.

Elohyim: completes all things---through Him, by Him and for Him.
1Jn 1,2,3,4,5 (all)
1Jn 5:6
This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ , not with water only but with water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one that testifies, for the Spirit is the truth.
Rom 10:9-10, Jn 3:16

Repentance unto Remission
Lk 24:47[...]His Name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
---char on 1/6/13


Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Mat 5:17,18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


---jerry6593 on 1/6/13


Nana. You quote James 4:8 "Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners, and purify your hearts, ye double minded."

The "double minded" this salvation call is made to are SPIRITUAL adulterers (verse 4), those preaching works of law (James 4:11,12).

The "double minded" spiritual "adulterers" are still with us today, preaching the law. These adulterers even transgress the 10C (thus they're guilty of ALL the law, James 2:10), and yet they preach condemnation for disobedience. Those preaching the law are in unbelief. They refuse to submit to the righteousness of God (Rom 10:3).

God loves you and calls for you to repent and believe in Jesus.

---Haz27 on 1/6/13




Ruben, you're seriously confused and that has caused you to contradict your very belief of universal atonement and your free-will. Let's go through the trail of your mess.

Firstly, you quoted Titus 2:11-14 to tell us that salvation is for "all man" when you challenged MarkV. Then to add on to your confusion, you show John 6,66, John 5:39-40 and 2 Timothy 2:12 to justify there's free-will, shooting yourself in the foot.

Here's why, in your latest post you have proven that not "all man" will be saved which debunks your universal atonement. As for your "free-will" theory, none of the latest verses tells us there's "free-will" involved but only disobedient sinners.
---christan on 1/6/13


Follower of Christ,

"I do not frustrate the grace of God. If righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

"Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which COULD HAVE given life, verily righteousness SHOULD HAVE BEEN by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe."

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith."

Hallelujah and Amen
---JackB on 1/5/13


Isaiah 45:20-22 "... Tell ye, and bring them near, yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me, a just God and a Saviour, there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else."

James 4:8 "Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners, and purify your hearts, ye double minded."

Does God say, "bring them near" and "be ye saved, all the ends of the earth"? Yes.
Is James 4:8 true? Of course. Compare it also to Isaiah 1:16_20.
---Nana on 1/5/13


christan* Ruben, what Titus wrote, sad to say the "all man" does not imply the whole world as you would like to believe. Because if "all man" is everyone, then no one should go to hell, right?

No, there are there because:

" From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." (JHN 6:66)

"But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life."(JHN 5:39-40)

"You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life, and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.( JHN 5:39040)

"if we deny him, he also will deny us:" ( 2 Tim 2:12)
---Ruben on 1/5/13


Francis. You're guilty of ALL the law. Your doctrine condemns you.

For those under works of the law like you follow, Tit 1:16 says: "They profess that they know God, but in works they deny him,"

Rev 3:15-19 "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm (mixing grace with works of law), and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth....".

Either our works are to believe in Jesus (John 16:9), which is righteousness by faith (Rom 4:5)
OR
PERFECT obedience/works of the law (James 2:10).
You CAN'T mix these 2.

Paul chose righteousness through the faith of Christ (Phil 3:9)
---Haz27 on 1/5/13




In Matthew 15:9_9 Jesus said,
"Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."


Why? Because they found a way to justify themselves and break the command of God, Matthew 15:3_6.
Just like you do Haz.
On this particular commandment even Paul speaks, Ephesians 6:2.
---Nana on 1/5/13


"God has been accessible and available to "whosoever will". Nana

"accessible"? Is God a drive-in fastfood or a supermarket? Romans 1:19-20 does not mean that God is "accessible" but rather looking at the things aroundus, how can anyone even deny His existence? That's what it means. If He was "accessible" according to you, then Jesus would have been lying when He declared,

"All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father, neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." Matthew 11:27

Knowing God is altogether another issue.
---christan on 1/5/13


"The great rule of understanding for the converted mind is line upon line, precept upon precept.
---Follower_of_Christ on 1/5/13

That is incorrect.
To see why note Isa 28:13. "But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little, that they might go, and FALL BACKWARD, and be BROKEN, and SNARED, and TAKEN"

FofC, for such people their
"fear toward God is taught by the PRECEPT of MEN" Isa 29:13

So, HOW do the converted receive understanding?
We're taught by the Holy Ghost. We have the mind of Christ. 1Cor 2:12-16
---Haz27 on 1/5/13


Haz27 on 1/5/13

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,..Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them,

Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not Kill.

Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet

Which of these do you think A christian who is saved by grace, not under the law, disobey?
---francis on 1/5/13


FofC said: "the next lie the laws are a burden only made for the sinner"

FofC, you contradict God. Note 1Tim 1:9
"the law is NOT MADE for a righteous man (Christians), BUT FOR the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for SINNERS"

Rom 10:4 "Christ is the END of the law for righteousness"

Gal 3:24 "the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are NO LONGER under a schoolmaster"

BUT those preaching the law, make themselves transgressors/sinners (Gal 2:18). They're in unbelief, seeking to establish their own righteousness, thus refusing to submit to the righteousness of God, Rom 10:3
---Haz27 on 1/5/13


Francis you quote James 4:7 about resisting the devil and he will flee from you.
BUT read it's CONTEXT.
It's referring to the likes of you.
James 4:4 refers to SPIRITUAL adulterers.
And who are these people?
James 4:11,12 confirms its those judging by works of the law.
James 4:7,8 is a salvation call to the likes of you.

And James 1:22, " if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer" this also speaks of the likes of you.
You've heard the gospel of grace, yet you forget what manner of man you were in Christ (righteousness by faith) and have turned back to works of the law for righteousness (unbelief).

Repent and believe in Jesus.
---Haz27 on 1/5/13


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Jack B you appear to have bought into the great teachings of false Christianity and their doctrine of demons aka the lasciviousness (law breakers) who tell you there is no law maker, and the next lie the laws are a burden only made for the sinner, when the Lord states his laws are a delight!!

Lest you forget (just 10 verses later)

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The great rule of understanding for the converted mind is line upon line, precept upon precept. An unconverted mind teaches contradiction and law-breaking.

Without the Lord nobody can obey, yet with him working in us through the holy spirit true followers obey him and his 10 perfect laws.
---Follower_of_Christ on 1/5/13


Romans 1:19_20 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shewed it unto them.
..., even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse:"

God has been accessible and available to "whosoever will".

Romans 1:28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient"
That's right, "they did not like to retain"! Whosoever changes their way for good God accepts: Romans 11:23 "And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again."

That's the way it is.
---Nana on 1/5/13


No one is righteous. No, not one. There is a righteousness by faith. But we will be recognized by our fruit. We must remain in Christ and continue in the Lord's kindness or we too will perish.
---aaron on 1/5/13


"Not everyone believes that in order to obtain salvation they must cease from their OWN works and trust what Jesus Christ did on their behalf. That is SAVING faith." JackB

You have just demonstrated your doctrine of "free-will". Is this even Scriptural? If it is, please show us the Scriptures that lead you to say what you say. And I'm sure you can't and that's because Acts 13:48 declares,

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and AS MANY AS WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE BELIEVED."

Understand the word "ORDAINED"? It doesn't say what you say one bit! Rather, it contradicts you.
---christan on 1/5/13


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"...which is written on the hearts of Gentiles (Mic.6:8, Rom.1:19) and which Christians must fulfill." Nana

Fulfilled what? The law? That's not what Micah 6:8 and Romans 1:19 teaches. For the same writer of Romans declares, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

You are mingling the law with grace, which is a very dangerous concoction to the broad gate. Here, this is what Paul wrote, "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

You can't have the cake and eat it...
---christan on 1/5/13


James 1:22 be ye DOERS of the word, and not hearers only, DECEIVING YOURSELVES. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a DOER of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.


James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners, and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
---francis on 1/5/13


Ruben, God's grace that brings salvation has appeared to all men. The gospel that brings salvation has appeared to all mankind. It does not teach Universal salvation. He gave Himself for "us" believers (v. 2:14). It is in reference to all humanity in general as a category, not every individual. Jesus Christ made a sufficient sacrifice to cover every sin of everyone who believes (John 3:16-18: 1 Tim. 2:5,6: 4:10: 1 John 2:2). Paul makes it clear in the opening words of this letter to Titus that salvation becomes effective only through the faith of God's elect (1:1). While common grace goes out to everyone for the sun shines, and the sky's rain on the just and the unjust by the grace of God.
---Mark_V on 1/5/13


Paul states that God would reward those who persevere "in well-doing" (lit., "in good work") by giving them eternal life or immortality (as well as glory and honor).
We must thus differentiate between the "(ceremonial) works of Torah" which do not count for anything "in Christ" and the "(moral) work of Torah" which is written on the hearts of Gentiles (Mic.6:8, Rom.1:19) and which Christians must fulfill.

So, you just can trow 'work' out there and pass it for "law-keeping".
---Nana on 1/5/13


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Christan and MarkV, maybe this will help.

The sacrifice of Christ was for ALL men just as scripture states. However, not ALL men believe that Christ died for ALL men (something you should be familiar with). Because they dont believe that Christs sacrifice is enough to make them righteous, they struggle daily with "law-keeping" and fall flat on their face and they are confronted with guilty consciences which can only be relieved by condemning others or excusing others (just as Romans says).

Not everyone believes that in order to obtain salvation they must cease from their OWN works and trust what Jesus Christ did on their behalf. That is SAVING faith.
---JackB on 1/4/13


Follower of Christ,

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Anything that is not built upon Christ will crumble.

Add to your faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge, And to knowledge temperance, and to temperance patience, and to patience godliness, And to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness charity.
---JackB on 1/4/13


righteousness is imputed by Gods holy spirit working in the minds of Believers. A converted mind is a mind that allows the holy spirit to lead them to obey Gods 10 perfect laws. By obeying through the holy spirit it is the strength of the Lord Jesus working in us that creates righteousness because it is impossible to be righteous without the Lord.

An unconverted mind is a mind hostile to Gods 10 laws and deceived to believe his laws are a burden when the Lord states they are delight.

There can be no laws without a lawgiver and no sin without law. False righteousness promotes lasciviousness (law breaking) and without laws you have no Savior.
---Follower_of_Christ on 1/4/13


Phil 0n 1/4/13 - It's not Christ but, the Father's righteousness - ??????

2 Peter 1:1 SIMON servent' a servant and a apostle of Jesus Christ to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our saviour jesus Christ


Philippians 1:11 BEING fill with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ , unto the Glory and praise of God.

2 Corinthians 5:21 - FOR he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin that we might be made righteousness of God in Him.

John 10:30 - I and my father are One.
---RICHARDC on 1/4/13


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Ruben, what Titus wrote, sad to say the "all man" does not imply the whole world as you would like to believe. Because if "all man" is everyone, then no one should go to hell, right?

Who are the "all man" Scripture is implying? Jesus said, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37 and confirming that it's election, Jesus confirms again in verse 65,

"Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." And what is "given unto him" you may want to ask. It's 'FAITH", which is a "gift of God".
---christan on 1/4/13


Trey & Christan. As I said before, we agree that the physical still does wrong. Anyone claiming (like Francis) they keep the 10C perfectly (since receiving Christ) are deluding themselves.

But note Rom 8:10: "the body is DEAD (by faith) because of sin". It was crucified with Christ Rom 6:6.

Christians are now "SPIRITUAL", Rom 8:9. We "WERE in the flesh" (Rom 7:5), but NOT ANY MORE, as scripture confirms.

Mark V, you misunderstand scripture. When it warns against "sin" it's warning against turning back to works of law. Gal 2:18 says it plainly that if you rebuild what you destroyed (self-righteous works of law) then you make yourself a transgressor/sinner.
---Haz27 on 1/4/13


The Scriptures do not speak of the righteousness of Christ. They speak of the righteousness of His God and Father.

"I forfeited all, and am deeming it to be refuse, that I may be gaining Christ, and be found in Him, not having my righteousness, that of law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is from God for faith" (Phil.3:8-10).

Those who retain Christ's faith have God's righteousness imputed to them. They are justified by believing on the Son.

It is not Christ's, but the Fathers' righteousness.
---Phil on 1/4/13


"Because you're under law you thus make yourself a transgressor/sinner"
First of, Gentiles were never under law.
Romans 1 declares transgressors and sinners all who "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them, for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse:"
---Nana on 1/4/13


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You do what the (free willers) do, contradict the Word of God. They say God is trying to save some but cannot, when Scripture tells us that with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible, they contradict the word of God and are not ashame to do it.
---Mark_V. on 1/4/13

Not true Mark we say :

Titus 2:11-14:

"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men"

But you say just SOME!
---Ruben on 1/4/13


Haz, I do love you but your doing a bad job of interpreting the Word of God. You bring contradiction to it. You hold on a few passages at the expense of other passages. When two passages seem to contradict, one has to be wrong. Both cannot be right. What do you think the whole New Testament is about? Teaching believers not to sin. Why? Because they do sin. If we were perfect the whole New Testament would be for unbelievers. And that's impossible since they do not belief in God.
You do what the (free willers) do, contradict the Word of God. They say God is trying to save some but cannot, when Scripture tells us that with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible, they contradict the word of God and are not ashame to do it.
---Mark_V. on 1/4/13


Haz, when you quote 1 Peter 4:1 and 1 John 3:9 that the Christian "does not sin", it's obvious you have failed to understand the tripartite man. When God created man, it consist of the body, soul and spirit.

The part of the Christian which does not sin and cannot sin is his once dead spirit which by the grace of God has received spiritual regeneration by the Holy Spirit. That's what Peter and John was referring to, not the flesh.

The body of flesh is merely a vessel which the soul and spirit resides and it does not stop sinning until he drops dead. Only the soul is sanctified not the spirit, that's because it's born of the Holy Spirit. ONLY the Christian receives sanctification after he's born of the Spirit.
---christan on 1/4/13


Haz, what you are referring to is half of the story.

The scriptures do not lie. Our "new man" (1 John 3:9) or our "inner man" (Rom 7:22) once we have been born again/regenerated ceases from sin.

Our flesh (Rom 7:7) also known as our "old man" (Rom 6:6) continues to sin until the day we die. It is because of this sin that the Apostle Paul cries out "who shall deliver me from the body of death?"

The answer is Christ!!!
---trey on 1/4/13


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Christan. You seem to preach the gospel of grace like many others here, and myself, do.
We also agree Christians do wrong at times and God disciplines us. And these failures are not what determines our salvation/righteousness.

Where we disagree is you call these failings by Christians, "sin".
I prefer to use God's definitions from scripture, which confirm we've "CEASED from sin" (1Pet 4:1), "CANNOT SIN" (1john 3:9).

If you want say Christians "sin", that's your choice (although a hindrance in understanding scripture)

But, scripture shows the "wicked" are those in SPIRITUAL fornication (under the law) and that we should not associate with such (1Cor 5:13)
---Haz27 on 1/4/13


Samuelbb7. God says Christians have:
"CEASED from sin", 1Pet 4:1
"CANNOT sin", 1John 3:9

As ONLY PAST sin was remitted (Rom 3:25) then once in Christ there is no more sin as we're not under the law hence cannot be charged with transgression/sin (1John 3:4)

The doctrine you follow however, rejects righteousness by faith and judges righteousness by works of the law instead. This is the sin of unbelief (John 16:9). The doctrine you follow is a refusal to submit to the righteousness of God, Rom 10:3.

Repent and believe in Jesus, (instead of your works of the law).
---Haz27 on 1/4/13


You obtain it by faith. Believing the conviction of the Holy Spirit that we have failed at our chance for righteousness thru the law. .

The law can NOT save! The law can only condemn us. It was given to prove us guilty and lead us to Christ.
We are dead to the law. Married to Christ (Romans 7)

There is NO CONDEMNATION in Christ Jesus.

We are not under the law, but under grace.

Christ died in our place to remove our fear of death (Hebrews 2:15)

Only when the fear of death and condemnation is removed can a person GROW in power of the Holy Spirit. Guilt is crippling. Grace is enabling!
---JackB on 1/4/13


Haz, what people are telling you now is what I have told you all alone. No one is without sin, all come short of the glory of God. Sin brings death. But sin does no longer bring death to those in Christ. But it is still sin. If you are not chasten by God you are not one of His, for we are all partakers of chastening. But you keep insisting you are without sin, or that sin is no longer sin in your life, that somehow what you do wrong is no longer sin. But it is. As long as you live in your flesh in this life, you will sin. Real sin. When you are glorified after physical death, then you will be without sin.
---Mark_V. on 1/4/13


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"Just ONE offense makes you guilty, James 2:10."
Haz

Just one offence makes guilty whom live by the law of liberty- to which all Christians must oblige.
James 2:12 "So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty."

Paul said, 1 Corinthians 6:10 "Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
By any of those things he said that a man could be left out of God's grace, His Kingdom.
---Nana on 1/4/13


If someone is keeping all ten commandments are they committing sin?---francis

In fact, they're NOT keeping the 10C. Just ONE offense makes you guilty, James 2:10.

"whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and ALL the world may become GUILTY before God"
Rom 3:19, 23

Because you're under law you thus make yourself a transgressor/sinner, Gal 2:18. You frustrate the grace of God.

Christians however, have "CEASED from sin", 1Pet 4:1. We're NOT under law so who shall lay ANY THING to the charge of those God has justified, Rom 8:33?

ONLY PAST sin was remitted, Rom 3:25. There is no more "sin" once we receive Christ.
---Haz27 on 1/3/13


"When Christians do wrong it's not "sin"." -Haz27 on 1/3/13

What a dangerous, dangerous gospel you teach. It's true that when a Christian sin (and he will till the day he leaves this world), sin has no hold on him anymore by virtue of faith in Christ. And being justified by faith in Christ, he will be with Christ when he leaves this world.

BUT make no mistake, doing "wrong" in the sight of God is still sinning. For the Christian only, God will chastise him and that's because God loves him, to teach him the vileness of sin.

Romans 8:33 CANNOT be use to justify you sinning against God and saying you don't sin anymore because you're justified. Only a wicked heart speaks such.
---christan on 1/3/13


The Bible talks about Christians being sinners and committing sin. So you are saying the Bible is wrong.

1Cr 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body, but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

We are to live free from sin in Christ. Not be committing sin but by not doing sin.

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
---Samuelbb7 on 1/3/13


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When Christians do wrong it's not "sin". God has justified us, so who shall lay ANY THING to the charge of God's elect (Rom 8:33)?
---Haz27 on 1/3/13

If a christian has intimate, physical relationships with someone who is married to another person, what do you call it?

Is it a sin?
---francis on 1/2/13

Francis. As my previous posts said already, NO, it's NOT sin. Christians cannot be charged with transgression of the law they're NOT under
---Haz27 on 1/2/13

If someone is keeping all ten commandments are they committing sin?
---francis on 1/3/13


Adetunji, after re-reading your post, I agree! Our righteousness comes from Christ, and is all because of Christ! Because of all he has done for us, i.e. since he died for us, we should live for him. It is truly our reasonable service!
---trey on 1/3/13


Francis. Sin is transgression of the law, 1John 3:4. Hence your question to me about Christians doing wrong, was not relevant, as Christians are NOT under the law.

When Christians do wrong it's not "sin". God has justified us, so who shall lay ANY THING to the charge of God's elect (Rom 8:33)? Consider Trey's posts on our righteousness.

Should a Christian do wrong, God disciplines them.
BUT under your doctrine, it's "sin" and the penalty is DEATH.

Your lukewarm mix of grace with works of the law, is unbelief. 1Cor 5 even describes it as "fornication".

God loves you and calls for the likes of you to repent and believe in Jesus.
---Haz27 on 1/3/13


Adetunji,

You speak of an inheritance.

If you had a long lost relative that died and willed you something, would it be yours because of obedience or birthright?
---trey on 1/3/13


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HAZ27: O.K. so there is a possibility that I did misunderstand you.

help me understand you by answering these few questions for me if you please:

If a christian has intimate, physical relationships with someone who is married to another person, what do you call it?

Is it a sin?
---francis on 1/2/13


Francis. As my previous posts said already, NO, it's NOT sin. Christians cannot be charged with transgression of the law they're NOT under

Thank you for your answer.
I did not missunderstand you.
---francis on 1/3/13


TREY: Isaiah 54:17 clearly confirms to us that righteousness is an inheritance from God/Jesus. I think what we need to do is to choose to be a good son/servant of God/Jesus.Surely a good son will not be deprived of enjoyment of his father's good things.
---Adetunji on 1/3/13


To answer my own question since I do not see any of you giving me the answer I am looking for, let us look at a few verses:
When were we reconciled to God?
Rom5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
How were we reconciled(justified, made righteous)?
2Co5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Is righteousness imputed?
Yes - Rom 4:11, Phil 3:9, see also Isa 53:10-12

Here is a picture of imputation: Lev 16:21
---trey on 1/2/13


Francis. As my previous posts said already, NO, it's NOT sin. Christians cannot be charged with transgression of the law they're NOT under

Regarding 1Cor 5, remember, scripture is SPIRITUALLY discerned, 1Cor 2:14
Who is this "father" in 1Cor 5, "that one should have his father's wife."?

John 8:41 " You do the deeds of your father."
John 8:44 " You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do."

What are the deeds/desires of such?
John 8:3-5 shows how it's works of the law (the old leaven/fornication with Hagar/works of law). In seeking to establish their own righteousness through works, they refuse to submit to the righteousness of God, Rom 10:3
---Haz27 on 1/2/13


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1 Cor 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

ANSWER MY OTHER QUESTIONS FIRST


THEN TELL ME
what do you think the phrase "that one should have his father's wife." means
---francis on 1/2/13


Francis. 1Cor 5, note these verses.
Verse 1 speaks of fornication that's not named amongst non-believers. That is SPIRITUAL fornication. Non-believers dont speak of such things.

Verse 2 & 6. "Puffed up". "Glorying"? No one acts like this over physical fornication with your father's wife. But they do act like this when under works of law.

Verse 7 "Purge out the old leaven". What's this leaven?
Matt 16:12 Jesus says its the doctrine of works of law (which you follow).

You Francis, still have the old leaven/doctrine of works.
Your in unbelief (the sin the world is convicted of, John 16:9)
God says PURGE out the old leaven. Repent and believe in Jesus.
---Haz27 on 1/2/13


HAZ27: O.K. so there is a possibility that I did misunderstand you.

help me understand you by answering these few questions for me if you please:

If a christian has intimate, physical relationships with someone who is married to another person, what do you call it?

Is it a sin?

If it is a sin, how do you know that it is a sin?

If it is a sin, where in the bible is that act prohibited?
---francis on 1/2/13


Francis & Jerry. To "sin" means you're UNDER law and transgressing it. You both sin. For you righteousness is judged by obedience to law.

Under the gospel you follow you make yourself a transgressor/sinner (Gal 2:18, James 2:10) and are condemned. Your in unbelief and in SPIRITUAL fornication with Hagar/doctrine of works of law (Gal 4).

BUT, for Christians, our faith is counted as righteousness (Rom 4:5). We believe in Jesus and love one another, as he commanded us (1John 3:23).
We're not under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 5:18)
God has justified us so who shall lay ANY THING to the charge of God's elect? (Rom 8:33).
Answer: Nobody can charge Christians with sin. We abide in Christ and in him is no sin.
---Haz27 on 1/2/13


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---Haz27 on 1/1/13
Does it not seem strange to you that the only sin a person can comit in obedience to the ten commandments?

Does it not seem strange to you that you pastor teaches that 1 Corinthians 5 is not about the physical act of fornication,

You are taught that 1 corithians 5 is fornication before is referrs to "those preaching the law "---Haz27 on 12/29/12

Here is what the BIBLE says:
Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.


TALK TO YOUR WIFE!! unless you are OK with your spouse performing physical fornication whcih is your view is not sin since those in christ cannot sin
---francis on 1/2/13


---Haz27 on 1/1/13

O.K. so there is a possibility that I did missunderstand you.

help me understand you then.

If a christian has intimate, physical relationships with someone who is married to another person, what do you call it?

Is it a sin?

If it is a sin, how do you know that it is a sin?

If it is a sin, where in the bible is that act prohibited?
---francis on 1/2/13


Francis. You clearly misunderstand if you genuinely believe I'm saying physical fornication with another is ok. My previous posts where I said God disciplines us confirms my position on such matters.

And why not consider your own continual disobedience of the law? It's quite hypocritical of you to be judging others when you can't even keep the law yourself.

However, your SPIRITUAL fornication with Hagar/doctrine of works of law (Gal 4) is what God is calling you to repent of.

Repent of your fornication/dead works, and believe in Jesus, instead.
---Haz27 on 1/1/13


"OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW which is not fornication at all" francis

Of course it's not fornication, it's worse! "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

"Pastors who preach this are usually pastors who are sleeping with the women in the church, both single and married"

And you dare say "NO JUDGEMENTS JUST WARNING"? So, tell us - have no sins of your own? This is a judgement, "For the wages of sin is DEATH". "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."
---christan on 1/2/13


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Haz: So you never sin! Wow, that's great! Although you seem a bit confused about whose side you're on. You claim that disobedience to God is a virtue, and obedience is a sin. Did that work with your parents?

Since you acknowledge that Christ is greater, perhaps you should consider:

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,


---jerry6593 on 1/2/13


And why do you judge those pastors you named, on their physical fornication, when you yourself are into SPIRITUAL fornication with a harlot (Hagar/works of law, Gal 4)?
---Haz27 on 1/1/13

No son, I did not misunderstand you. In your view the only fornication for one in Christ is spiritual fornication ( OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW which is not fornication at all) , you do not consider union with another woman or man not your wife as fornication

AGAIN: Pastors who preach this are usually pastors who are sleeping with the women in the church, both single and married

TALK TO YOUR WIFE
or maybe you are O.K. with it

NO JUDGEMENTS JUST WARNING
---francis on 1/1/13


Francis: You misunderstand what I say. And why do you judge those pastors you named, on their physical fornication, when you yourself are into SPIRITUAL fornication with a harlot (Hagar/works of law, Gal 4)?
"Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot (Hagar/works of law) is one body with her?" 1Cor 6:16

Jerry.
1) Heb 12 warns about being tempted into sin (going back under the law thus making yourself a transgressor/sinner, Gal 2:18)

2)In Christ Christians CANNOT sin, 1John 3:9. We abide in him and in him there is no sin, 1John 3:5,6

3)Christ is greater
---Haz27 on 1/1/13


ONLY PAST sin was remitted, Rom 8:2. There's no subsequent sin once in Christ. We CANNOT be charged Rom8:33. We're righteous in Christ.
---Haz27 on 12/31/12
I have told you before, that Pastors who preach this are usually pastors who are sleeping with the women in the church, both single and married

you missed the hint

TALK TO YOUR WIFE
or maybe you are O.K. with it
---francis on 1/1/13


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Haz: I have three questions for you:

1) Does Satan have the power to tempt you to sin?

2) Does Jesus Christ have the power to keep you from sinning?

3) Which of the two is the most powerful?



---jerry6593 on 1/1/13


We have the strength through Christ in us, to not sin
---francis

Francis.Considering your consistent disobedience to the 10C's, your condemned under your works doctrine.

But what does God say regarding those who believe in Jesus (hence NOT UNDER the law)?

"He that is dead is FREED from sin" Rom 6:7

"since Christ suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind (our old man crucified with him, Rom 6:6), for he who has suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) has CEASED from sin" 1Pet 4:1

We "CANNOT sin", 1John 3:9

ONLY PAST sin was remitted, Rom 8:2. There's no subsequent sin once in Christ. We CANNOT be charged Rom8:33. We're righteous in Christ.
---Haz27 on 12/31/12


Francis. Your still pushing your false gospel, mixing grace with works of law.

Grace and works CANNOT be mixed, Rom 11:6.

Your being lukewarm when mixing grace with works of law. God calls for the likes of you to "Repent", Rev 3:15-19.

Note James 3 regarding the lukewarm doctrine you teach.

James 3:1 "let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a STRICTER JUDGEMENT"

James 3:10,11 "Out of the same mouth proceed blessing (GRACE)and cursing (judging by works). My brethren, these things OUGHT NOT TO BE SO. Does a spring send forth fresh water (GRACE) and bitter (judging by works) from the same opening?

Repent and believe in Jesus.
---Haz27 on 12/31/12


"Phil is correct....Jesus came to put away sin. So now what must man do to be saved?" duane

Correct? Let's see, "When His disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, WITH MEN THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:25-26

Errrr..... WRONG! Know the meaning of "IMPOSSIBLE"?

"and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" Acts 13:48 - the "believing" is not dependent the man but of God, who chooses.
---christan on 12/31/12


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Jesus came to put away sin. ---duane on 12/31/12

YES, He came to free us from the wages of sin which is death, but he did much more than than save us from the wages of sin. He came to strengthen us so that we may not sin in our mortal bodies

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

We have the strength through Christ in us, to not sin
---francis on 12/31/12


"Imputation" is clearly taught by Paul in his epistles to the Romans in chapter 4. It's a process solely dependent on the giver - who's God Almighty. And this process cannot take place if one is not justified by faith in Christ.

As for obtaining it? "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for, but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded." Romans 11:7

Which means, imputation cannot be obtained by works but by God's grace only.
---christan on 12/31/12


Phil is correct....Jesus came to put away sin. So now what must man do to be saved?
Believe on HIM who HE has sent.
Sin wont condemn but unbelief will.
Sin is not imputed because of the Cross.
---duane on 12/31/12


Paul says, "we who first trusted in Christ," in Ephesians 1:12. By simply trusting in Jesus, we have Him and His righteousness and His kingdom and one another.

But to become righteous is another thing. We need how God changes us to become how Jesus is, so that then we are righteous by being loving and pleasing to our Father like Jesus is (2 Corinthians 2:14-15, 3:17-18) . . . more and more as "Christ is formed in you" (Galatians 4:19).

For this, we keep trusting our Father to correct us and cure us in His love which perfects us so that "as He is, so are we in this world." (in 1 John 4:17) So, righteousness has to do with how His love is right and makes us truly right (c:
---willie_c: on 12/31/12


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Genesis 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. And he believed in the LORD, and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Abraham believed that God did, God can, God will, and God is doing.....because God created.

When we believe, we also believe that God did, God can, God will, and God is doing on our behalf for our salvation. We are justfied

Deuteronomy 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

This is sanctification, a daily process of submitting to God through his spirit that lives in us by faith
---francis on 12/30/12


Phil: You are really confused!


---jerry6593 on 12/31/12


1 John 3:7 let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

Where does the power to do this righteousness come from:

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Ephesians 3:17 Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith,
Romans 8:11 the Spirit... dwell in you,
2 Peter 1:4 ye might be partakers of the divine nature

If you are a partaker of the divine nature, if the spirit of Christ is in you by faith, you cannot help but do righteousness

Rightrousness By Faith

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
---francis on 12/30/12


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