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Eternal Torment Night & Day

If hell is eternal torment night and day, is the punishment too much for the crime?

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 ---jamea3475 on 1/8/13
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'calling Him a liar'- christan.

No christan, I'm calling those who promote hell-fire liars. "Let God be true, and every man a liar..."- Ro.3:4 (NIV).

Those sacrificed in 'Hinnom' died yet you believe they're still burning! (2 Kings 23:10) God viewed the practices at Hinnom 'evil', yet you believe they are just- Jer.7:31. Its you who speaks twisted words.

'Gehenna' does not represent the pagan hell-fire doctrine, which distorts God's supreme justice and mercy. No human in their right mind would set fire to another... yet you believe God is beneath such an act. You blaspheme God's love and mercy!

Evolution and the pagan hell-fire doctrine are the driving forces behind atheism today!
---David8318 on 1/22/13


Christan- do you believe the 'sons and daughters' at 2 Kings 23:10 are still being tormented in the Valley of Hinnom? And will do for the rest of eternity? Or are they dead?

Notice what God said through Jeremiah about this merciless practice of burning people- Jer.7:31,

'They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.'

Oops... the dots have ended for you. Burning people in fire- a detestable practice is not in God's heart or mind to do.

I suppose your dots also lead you to believe a literal '10 horned, 7 headed wild beast' which is also sent to the lake of fire- Rev.20:10. How bizarre!
---David8318 on 1/22/13


David8318, you continuing in twisting and turning the word of God with regards to hell or Gehenna or the Lake of Fire isn't going to change God's plan in sending the wicked to eternal death.

What you are demonstrating is the classic effect of what an unbeliever will do - rejecting the Word of God and calling Him a liar that He is the creator of all things. Yes, including hell. Or how else will the Almighty God get to demonstrate His Holy wrath and vengeance on the wicked? Aren't these created for that very purpose?

"The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."
---christan on 1/22/13


No the wicked/unsaved receive eternal death in the Lake of Fire.
---Elder on 1/22/13

This answer is weird. There is no place in any version I have that says, "eternal death".

In fact, the versions I have clearly define, by God's own words, what death is, and is not eternal.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

God never used the word "eternity or eternal" in His Holy Writings. He used olam and aionios. Greek philosophers [Plato] imagined eternity, but God never used it in His word.

Latin Theologians did, though. Most, I think, presumed themselves divine in one way or another.
---Phil on 1/22/13


Scripture is the authority, not I. Our beliefs should be based on scripture not feelings.

Mt25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Re20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Re20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Re19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
---trey on 1/22/13




"Nothing in Word of God about eternal torment because the wicked do not receive eternal life"
Christian
No the wicked/unsaved receive eternal death in the Lake of Fire.
---Elder on 1/22/13


Aka- neither did they use the word Jesus.

What's your point?

I believe Jehovah is a reasonable translation for the Hebrew Tetragrammaton 'JHVH'. But substituting 'gehenna' for 'hell' is a deliberate and cynical attempt to completely change the meaning of 'gehenna' into something which it is not.

Even christans "dictionary definition" doesn't mention 'eternal' torment or suffering.
---David8318 on 1/22/13


Dictionary defines Gehenna - "the valley of Hinnom, near Jerusalem, where propitiatory sacrifices were made to Moloch. II Kings 23:10 / hell / any place of extreme torment or suffering."

Doesn't "gehenna" speaks of a "PLACE" and where one faces "TORMENT or SUFFERING"? Well, dictionary confirms what Scripture declares -

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Revelation 20:10. Here, John calls it "the lake of fire".

Still cannot connect the dots?
---christan on 1/21/13


'if "your bible" doesn't say hell, what does it say?'- christan.

The Bible I use says what the Greek manuscript says- "gehenna"! Many other translations also use Gehenna.

What do you mean 'English version of the Bible'? Not all English versions substitute the Greek word 'gehenna' for the English word 'hell'.

Translators who substitute words to promote false beliefs are liars and deceivers, not the Bible. You can't pull the wool over Biblical truth. And the truth is whichever way you look at it, the word "hell" does not appear in any Greek manuscript.

Translators using the word 'hell' are being less than disingenuous in not allowing the reader to decide how 'gehenna' is to be understood.
---David8318 on 1/21/13


Elena, Asi es. Increible que hay cristianos, ya, que no creen que el Infierno existe. Como puede ser esto? Por falta de escudrinar a las Escrituras, y, por faltar a pedir, directamente, a DIOS por SU Sabiduria. La creyencia de la existencia del Infierno deberia ser Ense~anza basica. Para que la gente perdida, afuera de la Iglesia, puede escuchar la Verdad completa de la boca de la Iglesia. Necesitamos estudiar mas en cuanto de este asunto. Hell must be studied about more, in the Church. Que DIOS siga a bendecirte, Hna!
---Gordon on 1/21/13




//the original writers of the Bible did not use the word hell.//

the original writers of the scriptures did not use the word Jehovah.
---aka on 1/21/13


"the original writers of the Bible did not use the word hell" David8318

So by your testimony, the English version of the Bible is nothing but a lie, right? Because that's what you're implying. And if the English Bible is a lie according to you, why do you even bother to quote the verses? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite and an unbeliever of the Word?

Hell is mentioned no less then 35 times in the OT and the NT, not only by Christ but the prophets of the OT. Which then means only one thing, they call you a liar. And a blatant one at that!

And if "your bible" doesn't say hell, what does it say? Fantasy island? Or maybe, Never Never Land?
---christan on 1/21/13


Only the righteous, good people experience eternal life- Ro.6:23. The wicked are 'cut off'- Prov.2:21,22 (NIV).

---David8318 on 1/19/13

David,

But those rightheous good people you mention only have a earthly hope, a living forever in paradise on earth with no entrance to live with Christ. I don't know about you but I rather live with him forever in Heaven.

The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if only we suffer with him so that
we may also be glorified with him. Romans 8: 14-17
---Ruben on 1/21/13


Christan- the original writers of the Bible did not use the word hell. It is not in any Greek manuscript. Thus, the spirit is not a deceiver- translators who chose to swap the original Greek word 'Gehenna' for 'hell' are.

Jesus Christ also did not use the word 'hell', so he is neither a deceiver. Translators of Bibles who swap the word Jesus used- 'Gehenna', for the word 'hell' are.

Rather than deceive people with words that are not in the Bible, why don't you and Bible translators use the original words and let readers decide for themselves what 'Gehenna' means?

But of course you won't- the deception is all yours.
---David8318 on 1/21/13


Mt5:22, speaks about angry with your brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement:
(Goes on speak about 'danger of the council:but who shall ever say,thou fool,shall be in danger of hell fire.
2Pet.2:4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell,into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgement.
Have some more I got to find them.
---ELENA on 1/20/13


"...mislead people into believing the false doctrine of hell-fire and eternal damnation." David8318

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" - you calling the Spirit a deceiver?

No one spoke more of hell and eternal death than the Lord Jesus Christ during His ministry on earth - you calling Him a liar and deceiver too?

"And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
---christan on 1/19/13


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May the Lord bless you bro.Christian with all respect like and understand well your post 1-18-2013.really got to study more, never can learn enough from the word of God.love of jesus! ELENA
---ELENA on 1/19/13


Family, guess? what remains shocking to me, I had no idea there are people Christians! Who Do Not believe in Hell! They are others who don't even believe there is a hell. Some are Calvinists. , some are Reformists, Been reading about the different cults, "religiosity" churches, wow! It's crazy!
---ELENA on 1/19/13


Nothing in Word of God about eternal torment because the wicked do not receive eternal life


The Lord will purge out chaff burning it up Matt 3:12

God purposely designed holy scripture as a coded book Isaiah 28:10 2 Tim 2:15 Acts 17:11 2 Peter 1:20

scriptures describe hell as the grave, or hell as the burning lake of fire are two different states of death. The lake of fire is final. All fire will burn up without fuel. As scripture states the final hell-fire the wicked will leave neither branch nor root becoming ashes, consumed away Mal 4:1,3 Psalm 37:20.

believe the eternal God, The Father in Heaven, a merciful God who will destroy both body and soul of the unrepentant wicked Matt 10:28
---Follower_of_Christ on 1/19/13


Bike- there is no mention of hell in the Bible. Translators subsitute the words Gehenna for hell to mislead people into believing the false doctrine of hell-fire and eternal damnation.

Hellfire is taught in all false religions, not just in false christianity.

The punishment for sin is death... thats all. Unending, eternal non-existence with no hope of resurrection.

Only the righteous, good people experience eternal life- Ro.6:23. The wicked are 'cut off'- Prov.2:21,22 (NIV).

Hell-fire is not something God created, neither did it come up into his heart or mind- Jer.7:31.
---David8318 on 1/19/13


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Yes, eye for eye and tooth for tooth or purgatory seem more fair than eternal torment. The Jehovah Witness teach that no loving God would ever send any one to an eternal place of torment. While we are in Christ, we do not worry about such things. But unless we re-interpret the scriptures to get rid of the teachings, we find a definite mention of hell and how it's to be for us who do not please God.
---bike on 1/19/13


Many have failed to understand and know who God truly is. When Isaiah was taken to stand before God, these were the very words the seraphims first spoke: "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory."

So the world have failed to first acknowledge that God is "Holy, Holy, Holy" - acknowledging the Father, Son and Spirit. From this we know - His love, wrath, mercy, grace, justice etc - are all rooted in His Holiness.

When God destroyed Pharaoh, it was an act of Holy vengeance because of unbelief in Him. Today, we see calamities before our eyes - can it happen if God did not will for it to happen? Very unlikely.
---christan on 1/18/13


Bro. Gordon, very good points. There is no getting away from the Justice of God. Everyone talks about the love of God, but very little about His justice. They want God to be a little mad, not much. They even want to be separated from God if they die, that seems to bring them comfort, because all their lives they have been separated from God anyway, but God will be there present to bring His wrath upon them. God is never cruel. So they will get a just punishment.
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them" (Rom. 1:18,19). They are without excuse.
---Mark_V. on 1/18/13


Would need to see Scriptural basis.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/17/13

1C 15:49 And according as we wear the image of the soilish, we should be wearing the image also of the Celestial.

Who blesses us with every spiritual blessing among the celestials

Eph 2:6 and rouses us together and seats us together among the celestials

Eph 3:10 that now may be made known to the sovereignties and the authorities among the celestials, through the ecclesia, the multifarious wisdom of God,

2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]:

All things are not yet subject unto Him. We will serve Him among heavenly beings, where rebellious sovereignties yet remain.
---Phil on 1/18/13


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Follower_of_Christ, Although the Damned shall, indeed, be tormented in everlasting fires in the Lake of Fire, GOD will not get any sort of "pleasure" from it. Therefore, that dismisses HIM from your description of a "tyrant". GOD gets no pleasure from the death of the wicked (EZEKIEL 33:11). But, nevertheless, HE must bring the Damned to Justice. For, HE is ANGRY with the Wicked everyday (PSALM 7:11). JOHN 3:36 attests to this! And, the Smoke of their Torments ascends up FOREVER AND EVER! (REVELATION 14:9-11).
---Gordon on 1/17/13


"//The body of Christ is not in Revelations. John was an apostle to the Jews, not us.// Absolutely true, Phil, the reason is found in 1Cor 15 and 1Thess 4" michael_e

"Absolutely true"? More like the Bible calls your understanding an absolutely a big fat lie!

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, OF ALL NATIONS, AND KINDREDS, AND PEOPLE, and TONGUES, STOOD BEFORE THE THRONE, and BEFORE THE LAMB, CLOTHED WITH WHITE ROBES, and palms in their hands,

And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb."
REVELATION 7:9,10
---christan on 1/17/13


Yes eternal torment day and night forever would be torturing, so sadistic because one torturing is pleasured by giving pain. That would be vicious wicked cruel and evil. Many crimes today involve lengthy torture.

Praise be to God, Elohim divine merciful creator of all who wants all of mankind to choose salvation, and those who refuse will be destroyed (hence cease to exist Matt 10:25)

At final resurrection the wicked will be punished by death through an unquenchable fire (so hot it cannot be put out) then when everything is consumed like all fire (without fuel) it will burn out Matt 13:30 Mal 4:1,3 Psalm 37:20

The wage of sin is death, not eternal life being tortured. Eternal life is only given to the righteous.
---Follower_of_Christ on 1/17/13


The body of Christ is not in Revelations. John was an apostle to the Jews, not us.
---Phil on 1/17/13

Not exactly true, but I understand and agree in principle.

The churches to whom the letters are written are BOC.

Also, the description of the great multitude in The Revelation chapter 7 looks and sounds like the BOC to me. Many different peoples from many different places all having white robes cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and worshipping and pledging their allegiance to the Lamb.

\\We will be among the celestial beings, reconciling the heavens with
Christ, and Israel will be kings and priests on earth, healing the nations.//

Not sure I can agree with this. Would need to see Scriptural basis.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/17/13


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//The body of Christ is not in Revelations. John was an apostle to the Jews, not us.//

Absolutely true, Phil, the reason is found in 1Cor 15 and 1Thess 4
---michael_e on 1/17/13


"The only saints mentioned in the Unveiling are Jewish." Phil

O boy, then Paul who was chosen to be an apostle to the Gentiles and all his preaching and writings is in vain, if according to you the saints are only Jewish. What you are saying is truly heresy.

"The body of Christ is not in Revelations. John was an apostle to the Jews, not us. It is God's truth to the Jews..."

The church (BOC) is not mentioned in Revelation? Boy, you sure are blind aren't you?

And guess what? So much for the Jews having the truth when He stood before them and they rejected Him, and worse still, they crucified Him!
---christan on 1/17/13


---Gordon on 1/16/13

The only saints mentioned in the Unveiling are Jewish.

The body of Christ is not in Revelations. John was an apostle to the Jews, not us.

It is God's truth to the Jews, recorded so we may understand His activities with them.

"whenever the Son of Mankind should be seated on the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Mt 19:28

We will be among the celestial beings, reconciling the heavens with
Christ, and Israel will be kings and priests on earth, healing the nations.

They will be resurrected to mortal life, kept alive through obedience and faith in Christ.
---Phil on 1/17/13


"Heresy is ignorance of the Scriptures." Phil

Claiming ignorance is not going to get you out of jail. As for "heresy", it has nothing to do with ignorance but the constant denial of the Truth that one opposes, meaning "willfully" challenging the Word of God. That's "heresy"!

Now, this is a demonstration of "heresy" - "It does not reflect one's salvation.". This is what Christ declared, "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

That is, you cannot be speaking "heresy" and yet be saved!
---christan on 1/16/13


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Follower-of-Christ, The Sodom and Gomorrah of JUDE 7 is referring to the CITIZENS of Sodom and Gomorrah, not the cities of "houses and buildings". Yes, the literal cities did burn up, but, there is a deeper Spiritual implication in this Verse. It's saying that the inhabitants of S & G are still suffering from GOD's Vengeance of Eternal Fire. Like when one says "America wants an honest leader." It's not saying that the "land or territory of America" wants an honest leader. It means that the "citizens of America" are wanting such a leader. Those citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah are still suffering the Eternal Fire in Hell and will be moving on into the eternally burning Lake of Fire at Judgment Day.
---Gordon on 1/16/13


//---jan4378 on 1/11/13//--(good to see you posting)
//---Gordon on 1/10/13//

Good points, jan4378 and Gordon

God bless you.
---char on 1/16/13


Christan, SORRY! I meant for my last comment for "Calhoon"! You were right in your own comment, Calhoon was the one who was incorrect in what he had last said. Please forgive my BLUNDER.
---Gordon on 1/16/13


Christan, Those Verses you just quoted, ("Thou shalt not be affrighted at them..."), pertains to HIS people, Christan! It applies only to those who are Believers and are following HIM. Those Verses absolutely DO NOT APPLY to the Damned, nor do they apply to those people who are on their way to Hell now, who refuse to repent and receive Salvation! (I'm shaking my head in disbelief at how you missapplied those Verses just to defend your argument.)
---Gordon on 1/16/13


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The truth is eternal torment night and day is a doctrine of demons not found in holy scripture. Those who are not saved at the 2nd resurrection will be burned up.

The facts from holy scripture there is eternal death (ceasing to exist) and eternal fire (which burns out):

Punishment ends, it does not say punishing. It does not say eternal punishment. It says eternal life.

Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

To understand eternal fire one must look to the example the Eternal God provides in Jude. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah suffered eternal fire and that fire burned up. Those cities, clearly, are not still on fire!!
---Follower_of_Christ on 1/16/13


When you look at how horrible the punishment Christ went through for our sins, & the fact that it was done to save us from going to hell if we'd only believe, then NO, hell is not too much for that crime. You have a way out. You're not forced to go there. YOU CAN'T RUN WITH THE DEVIL, THEN EXPECT TO LIVE WITH THE LORD!
---Reba on 1/16/13


Phil, Okay, so the Scriptures say that "only Christ hath immortality". So, (to YOU) that means that even Saints do not live Eternally on the New Earth as per REVELATION 21:1??????? That, no one, nor any thing, will live on non-stop but Christ alone(?!?) Is that what you're really believing and saying to all of us here??
---Gordon on 1/16/13


Would you torment your brothers and sisters non stop? If so, you need to be locked up until you repent.--calhoon on 1/16/13

This is harsh judgment, and will be met with dismissal by the "torment" believers.

If they were capable of thinking through the awfulness and incongruity of this false doctrine, and could see how sick and demented it is, then I could render alongside you this condemnation.

But they cannot. The strength of tradition and heresy in the Body is obvious. And such icons as "eternal torment" cannot be demolished by human hands. Only the spirit of grace can save.

Heresy is ignorance of the Scriptures. It does not reflect one's salvation.
---Phil on 1/16/13


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"Most of you are very sick minded to think your God is love and yet will torment His creation non stop.." calhoon

Read carefully of what God declared of Himself:

"Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the Lord thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible. For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward. He is thy praise, and he is thy God, that hath done for thee these great and terrible things, which thine eyes have seen."

The list goes on. God indeed is love but only toward His elect. And not everyone He created is His elect. It says so in the Bible. So get your facts right!
---christan on 1/16/13


Steven G, I do not condemn you at all. I have no power to do that. I judge what you write about Scripture. Am I suppose to say, "ok Steven, because I love you, I will compromise the Truth for a lie" Sorry, but I cannot do that. Scripture speaks against what you said. Sure there is mercy with God, but there will be no mercy for those who die without Christ. There will only be justice. And their worm will not die.
"And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of men who have transgressed against Me. "For their worm does not die, and their fire is not quenched." They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh" (Isaiah 66:24).
---Mark_V. on 1/16/13


Most of you are very sick
minded to think your God is love and yet will torment His creation non stop..
Will God ever forgive you when you in this matter? As a person believes so is he. Would you torment your brothers and sisters non stop? If so, you need to be locked up until you repent.
---calhoon on 1/16/13


Mark_V., Why do you condemn me with a speck in my eye when you have a log of such hatred in your heart and give false testimony against others?
---Steveng on 1/15/13


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"God will not have people suffering for eternity in the new heaven and new earth, he is full of mercy to those who will be prosecuted." steveng

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels, And these shall go away into everlasting punishment." Matthew 25:41,46,

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power." 2 Thessalonians 1:8,9

Scriptures doesn't concur with your understanding.
---christan on 1/15/13


"That He exists "eternally" is not said in Scripture." Phil

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens." 2 Corinthians 5:1

"Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen." 1 Timothy 1:17

"But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus" 1 Peter 5:10

Are you that blind that you dare challenge the eternal state of God Almighty? Probably you are.
---christan on 1/15/13


Steven G, you condemned the Churches, advice others your home church is the way to go, as if no tares were in your home church. Now you teach:
"After the christians are taken up at the return of Christ and after "the rest of the dead" are judged a thousand years after according to what they did on earth the rest of the people are going to die a second death in which they will not return to the living again, forever. God will not have people suffering for eternity in the new heaven and new earth, he is full of mercy to those who will be prosecuted.
If your the teacher at you home church there is tares at your church. Because what you teach is false. 1st, you contradict the Words of Jesus. 2nd:
---Mark_V. on 1/15/13


Do not be afraid of man for he can only kill the body, but be afraid of God for he can kill the body and the soul. Once all is fulfilled according to scripture there is to be a new heaven and a new earth where there is no pain or suffering. After the christians are taken up at the return of Christ and after the rest of the dead are judged a thousand years after according to what they did on earth the rest of the people are going to die a second death in which they will not return to the living again, forever. God will not have people suffering for eternity in the new heaven and new earth, he is full of mercy to those who will be prosecuted.
---Steveng on 1/14/13


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---Gordon on 1/11/13

God is Spirit. Only flesh knows corruption and decay unto death.

During the eons {G165}, God's spirit indwells men making them alive. When He withdraws that spirit, we die.

God does not dwell in the past, or the future. He exists in the "now". Time has no purpose to Him other than for demonstration and revelation of Himself to us.

That He exists "eternally" is not said in Scripture. However, it is understood by nature and conscience.

Christ only hath immortality. This is all that is said of any form of "eternal" existence.
---Phil on 1/14/13


It states it will be Eternal punishing, not eternal punishment. There is a diffrence.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
---Leo_Holley; on 1/14/13


"Absolutely,if taken literally does not reflect "justice"!" 1stCliff / "If hell is eternal torment night and day, is the punishment too much for the crime?" james3475

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:5

Have the both believed in the serpent that you are now gods? That you have the audacity to pass judgement on the Creator, even if you are merely His creation that He made out of dust?

"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?"
---christan on 1/14/13


I know exactly what you are talking about. I have some family members like that. And can you believe they all think they are saved....You are right, no lost person believes they are going to go to hell. Straight out of God's holy mouth one day.
---pat on 1/13/13


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pat, people don't care because they don't think they will ever go to hell. everyone is christian if you ask them. they will talk about God all day but when you mention Jesus Christ, some become nervous and won't talk about Jesus. some think they will live in sin and be saved later but as you watch the obituaries, many are young. Our children and grandchildren are going to inherit a world like us older ones have never known. God bless our young folks.
---shira4368 on 1/13/13


I will say one more thing on this post. God tells me "Most people don't care if they go to HELL"!
---pat on 1/13/13


If you choose to live in Satan's kingdom, you choose to go where he and his kingdom are going > to the flaming sewer which burns with fire and brimstone.

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain nor labored in vain." (Philippians 2:14-16)
---willie_c: on 1/13/13


I could get into a long discussion over this but I don't feel like it! God is the only Person who has the POWER to send lost souls into hell. He actually told me so, when He said, "I am getting ready to place some people in hell". And then He sent a great storm near here. Killed about twenty or so. God has the power to take you to heaven we can all agree on that, right? you can not save yourself. he, same God, sends lost souls to hell if you die without Him. If you die in unforgiven sins because they were never forgiven by Him, you will go to hell when you die. One other thing: God has no qualms about it, because, I asked Him one day, and He said, "No".
---pat on 1/12/13


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pat, I love your post except the part where you said God sends people to hell. If people go to hell, it is not God's fault. God does not desire anyone to go to hell. that is why He sent His Son to die for us. people send their ownselves to hell by rejection.
---shira4368 on 1/12/13


NO! To know the "Righteous" God you must know that He hates sin. I can not express to you people how much God hates sin. It is His righteous anger, His righteous wrath, and His righteous judgment, which sends lost souls into hell. Unless you are forgiven [salvation type repentance] to hell you go when you die. It is your soul which will be tormented night and day forever. Amen.
---pat on 1/12/13


GOOD POINT, jan4378! For all have sinned and fallen short of GOD's Glory, and, so, no human being "deserves" entrance into the Glories of GOD's Heaven. Therefore, we have cause to PRAISE GOD for HIS Son YAHUSHUA (JESUS), Who is the Gate for the Sheep-fold.
---Gordon on 1/11/13


Phil, You say that "nothing is forever in Scriptures", Is GOD Forever?
---Gordon on 1/11/13


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Matthew 19:16 eternal.....Matthew 25:46 eternal.....Mark 3:29 eternal
.....Mark 10:17 eternal.....Luke 10:25 eternal and there is much more in my strongs concordance. If we didn't have eternal life what would life be worth??
---shira4368 on 1/11/13


The Scriptures speak nothing of everlasting or eternal.

The mistranslation of the Greek word aionios [G165] and it's derivatives has created this misconception.

Unless one makes a determined effort to eradicate this falsehood from their beliefs, that God ever spoke of anything as being "eternal", then darkness and unbelief will cloud the mind of the believer.

There is chastening for the eon, there is eonian life, there is an end coming for this present wicked eon, but nothing is "for ever and ever" in the Scriptures.

Only the translations and tradition persist in this falsehood. The time to enter maturity in the word is now.
---Phil on 1/11/13


The punishment may well be too much. But hell was not intended for mankind in the first place. And therefore not God's intent. And the very strong reason why God did not want Adam to sin. Which brings us to the plan of salvation to redeem mankind from the terrible ultimate result of sin.

Does one suppose that heaven is too good for the crime?
---jan4378 on 1/11/13


NO, the Punishment does not exceed the crime. GOD initially created Hell and the Lake of Fire for the Devil and his fallen angels, because of their Pride, their Rebellion against GOD and their sin. GOD will send anyone of mankind to the same places if they choose to live as the Devil and his angels. For, GOD created the soul to live on forever. And, if they don't want GOD and HIS Ways now, they won't throughout Eternity either. And, if they don't want to repent of sin and receive GOD's Love Gift of Salvation, then, they must "pay" for their own sins with their eternal soul separated from GOD and from all that is Good.
---Gordon on 1/10/13


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---aka on 1/9/13
The results of the fire is what is eternal. the example is Sodom. The fore has gone out, but the results are eternal

the results of the lake of fire will be eternal, but the fire will not be eternal

God literal means that the results will be eternal.

Sin will never rise again
Sinners will cease to exist

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death,

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, ..., shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

DEATH not life eteranl in fire

When people speak of burning forever in fire, they are speaking of life eternal in fire

God spekas of DEATH
---francis on 1/10/13


Sin is not fair. Hell is a consequence, not only a punishment. We can't suffer if we are in God's Spirit of His love, I consider, but "our God is a consuming fire," we have in Hebrews 12:29. Satan gets burnt, any time he's around Jesus, not because Jesus is cruel, but Satan's nature of selfishness and pride makes him burnable. That's not God's fault.

The way you die is the way you fry.

Rubber burns with quite a stench. If you live like a wheeler and dealer, you will burn out and can smell like burnt rubber when you wake up in the morning. But with Jesus "you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29)
---willie_c: on 1/10/13


James L, **only lasts a second, but that second never ends**
Suspended animation comes right out of a grade B si-fi movie!
Burning forever in a fire is about as "just" as execution for singing in the shower!
---1st_cliff on 1/10/13


James, I'm not God or claimed to be. I'm a believer in the Word of God, who is Christ Jesus. A person can be good and descent compare to other people, but not before God. "all good things come from above." When a person without Christ does a good deed, no glory goes to God. For anything without faith is sin.
"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts and their foolish hearts were darkened" (Rom. 1:20,21) the wrath of God goes to this people.
---Mark_V. on 1/10/13


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Only a fool would serve a God who tormented His creation non stop. I dont think Hitler would do such a thing much less a loving God.
To say you love a God of eternal torment is a crime in of itself. There sure isnt any love in your hearts, just corruption.
---calhoon on 1/10/13


//Jude 1:7 Sodom and Gomorrha, ..are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.//

juxtaposes the temporal from the eternal.

//And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes

CAN'T BURN ASHES//

Yahweh burned a bush without it burning up. do you think maybe that he can burn ashes as long as He wills?

and since God wrote eternal but did not mean it, maybe he did not mean Saturday when he said Sabbath.

most literal with one...but loose with the other. that's a convenient truth.
---aka on 1/9/13


mark v,first id like to ask you do you believe ure going to heaven?every one that answers the question yes says hells eternal,but they always believe dat there not going der,mark v ure not god nor can we answer things,but do you really believe a decent person who lived a reasonable decent life but didnt accept jesus is going to suffer punishement FOREVER,i just cant understand it!
---jamea3475 on 1/9/13


Jude 1:7 Sodom and Gomorrha, ..are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

ETERNAL FIRE: I am 100% sure the fire has gone out.

Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven,.. all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked, for they shall be ashes

CAN'T BURN ASHES

Lake of fire like Sodom's fore is NOT eternal. the results however will be eternal / everlasting
---francis on 1/9/13


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rich man & lazarus is about the pharisees who love money. they thought that the more money you have the holier you are & vice versa. the man is rich but the premise the pharisess were wrong
---mike on 1/9/13


jamea and cliff,

I think you both err in your thinking about eternity.

The bible seems to indicate that God created time, so that would mean that "eternal" isn't the same as time marching on forever.

Eternity is NOW that never ends.

I say that the punishment isn't too much, because they'll only suffer for a second.

But that second never ends
---James_L on 1/9/13


James, hell is torment, but I do not know if there will be night and days there. You asked if the punishment is too much? No it is not. We have a God who is not only Holy and Just but is never cruel. We can take in full assurance that there will be no cruelty there. It is impossible for God to be cruel. Cruelty involves inflicting a punishment that is more severe or harsh than the crime. God is incapable of inflicting an unjust punishment. The Judge of all the world will surely do what is right. No innocent person will ever suffer at His Hand.
Their problem in hell will not be separation from God. It will be the presence of God that will torment them. In hell God will be in the fulness of His divine wrath.
---Mark_V. on 1/9/13


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