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Disobeying God's Law

Why do some Christians believe that disobeying God's Law is more righteous than obeying it?

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 ---jerry6593 on 1/9/13
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---trey on 1/15/13

SDA do not keep the commandments to be saved, but rather BECAUSE
---francis on 1/7/12

1: saved by grace
2: are empowered by Jesus to keep all his laws
3: That at the moment we believe God declares us just, and that God imputes us with His righteousness
---francis on 1/14/13

I have never said and no one has ever said that they are trying to enter heaven by keeping the commandments
---francis on 1/12/13

God says LOVE HIM BY KEEPING HIS COMMANDMENTS
---francis on 4/1/12

No man of his own will can keep the commandments of God. The spirit of God in us enable us to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man,
---francis on 1/10/13

Different reason?
---francis on 1/16/13


Francis, I know you are just going to dismiss what Haz27, just said.
I just can hope you take your time doing it.

Luk_16:12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?

Peace
---TheSeg on 1/16/13


Haz: You seem to use Paul as an excuse for lawlessness. You believe your interpretation of Paul even when it directly contradicts the body of Scripture, and even the very Word of Christ. Paul used the word "law" in several different contexts, as:

The writings of Moses

The Ten Commandments

The handwriting of ordinances

The law of sin and death

Another law in my members

The content of the heart in the New Covenant.

I don't think that you rightly discern which "law" Paul means when you promote lawlessness.

What denomination are you? Are you aware that most denominations officially regard the Ten Commandments as binding on Christians.


---jerry6593 on 1/16/13


1Ti 1:9 being aware of this, that law is not laid down for the just, yet it is for the lawless, insubordinate, irreverent and sinners, the malign and profane, thrashers of fathers and thrashers of mothers, homicides, paramours, sodomites, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and if any different thing is opposing sound teaching.

Ro 8:7 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able

Trying to keep the law is fool's game. Believing it is possible is a delusion. It destroys the grace by which we are saved by walking in the flesh instead.
---Phil on 1/16/13


Believers who rely on grace, do so by death and crucifixion with Christ. Dead people do not sin, and our death is a reality. Seeking to be right with God by law-keeping only proves that faith and grace are absent from that life.

Commandment keeping does not change the believer's position before God, but prevents the Divine Hand from conforming the vessel according to His will.

God does not operate in those who, through self-will, seek justification and righteousness. That beautiful power is reserved for the new humanity, not the old.

Newness of life is obtained only through death of any thought that flesh is able to do anything.
---Phil on 1/16/13




trey the new testiment commandment was that we love one another. you are the one who needs to open your eyes. you are blinded by satan and satan loves tormenting the human race.
---shira4368 on 1/16/13


Francis. You quote scriptures about keeping commandments, yet ignore the fact ONLY Jesus kept them.
BUT, YOU FAIL to keep them yourself.

The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" was saved WITHOUT obedience to the law. It was grace alone.

Francis, you're like the Pharisees demanding death for transgressions (as in John 8:5). You follow the ministry of condemnation/death that was done away with(2Cor 3:7).

Jesus said in John 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do."
What' the desires of Satan? He's the ACCUSER. Just as the Pharisees also accused/condemned according to the law.
You too say "No, No, No" based on works of the law.
---Haz27 on 1/15/13


Francis. What of your own continued disobedience to the law? And yet you say,
"No, No, No" to any who disobey it.

1Tim 1:8 "we know that the law is good IF one uses it lawfully"

Jesus did this.
BUT, neither you nor I have. We're BOTH guilty of ALL the law (James 2:10, Rom 3:19).

The difference between us is you judge righteousness by deeds of the law.
Whereas those like myself, who believe in Jesus, our faith is counted for righteousness.

By your works of the law you deny Jesus, Tit 1:16.
You don't see that God had cleansed you in Christ. Instead you call unclean what God has cleansed.
Your in rebellion, refusing to submit to the righteousness of God, Rom 10:3

---Haz27 on 1/15/13


Francis said: ....Some are claiming that it leads to bondage"

BUT, what does God say?
---Haz27 on 1/15/13
Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

Deuteronomy 5:10 shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Proverbs 3:1 My son, forget not my law, but let thine heart keep my commandments:

Proverbs 3:2 For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.

Proverbs 4:4 keep my commandments, and live.

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
---francis on 1/15/13


francis, this may come as a shock to you, but I agree we should keep the commandemnts of God.
I believe the one of the differences in our view points is the reason why we believe that we should keep God's commandments.

I believe we should keep them because we are saved.
John14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I believe that you believe we should keep them in order to obtain salvation.

Gal2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
---trey on 1/15/13




Francis said: "some are claiming if you keep the commandments, you will die, ....Some are claiming that it leads to bondage"

BUT, what does God say?
---Haz27 on 1/15/13

Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Proverbs 7:2 Keep my commandments, and live, and my law as the apple of thine eye.

Proverbs 3:1 My son, forget not my law, but let thine heart keep my commandments:
For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.

Exodus 15:26 .. give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians:
---francis on 1/15/13


And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father:
there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more:
but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself:
but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

(All) THE LAW AND (All) THE PROPHETS!
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/15/13


Proverbs 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer [shall be] abomination.
---francis on 1/15/13


Francis said: "some are claiming if you keep the commandments, you will die, ....Some are claiming that it leads to bondage"

BUT, what does God say?
Gal 2:16 "by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified."

SDA's contradict God when preaching works of the law. Francis said "No, No, NO" to the salvation of anyone who disobeys the law.

Gal 4:21-24
"Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a BONDWOMAN (law), the other by a freewoman (Grace)....
which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to BONDAGE, which is Hagar (the law)
---Haz27 on 1/15/13


Preach it Haz! Fight the good fight!
---JackB on 1/15/13


---shira4368 on 1/15/13
i don't get the context of your post as it would referr to anything that I have posted
---francis on 1/15/13


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\\adam was made perfect but he sinned.\\

Wrong.

Adam and Eve were in a state of undeveloped innocence. They were to GROW to perfection.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/15/13


francis, you need to open your eyes. adam was made perfect but he sinned. this is a picture of sin and he died spiritually. both died spiritually. personally I believe they were ashamed (naked) and they went and covered themselves because of the sin they committed. it had nothing to do with their bodies exposed but shows a covering for our sin. after all, they were use to being without clothes. there is one meaning but many applications. God bless
---shira4368 on 1/15/13


Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


Proverbs 7:2 Keep my commandments, and live, and my law as the apple of thine eye.

Now some are claiming that if you keep the commandments, you will die, or it leads to death. Some are claiming that it leads to bondage

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
---francis on 1/15/13


Jerry, you misunderstand.
Rom 7 CLEARLY speaks about 10 commandments/law. Rom 7:7 confirms this.

Scripture describes our relationship to either Christ OR the law as a marriage (Eph 5:32)

Rom 7 confirms this and shows how Christians are "DEAD to the LAW" (10 commandments), as our old man was crucified with Christ. We're free to be married to another (Christ). And in Christ we're righteous, holy (Rom 11:16), perfected (Heb 10:14), sanctified (Heb 10:10) and without sin (1John 3:9).

Christians are under the much more glorious ministry of the Spirit/righteousness.

But SDA doctrine is the ministry of condemnation/death (which was done away with)2Cor 3:7.

Repent and believe in Jesus.
---Haz27 on 1/14/13


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---Shira4368 on 1/14/13
Exodus 22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. ( EXCUSED MURDER)

Proverbs 6:30 Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry, ( EXCUSED THEFT)

Jews argued in factions as to which was the greatest commandment. Which one of the ten could not be broken under any circumstances.

they tried to get Jesus to take sides
Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Jesus answer was that everything God said was about LOVE.
Love for God
and Love for neighbour

on these two pillars rest all laws and all prophecies
---francis on 1/14/13


So Francis u r saying if u love ur neighbor and love God then u can murder and its ok. After all that is covered under the two laws u mentioned.
---Shira4368 on 1/14/13


---TheSeg on 1/14/13
Matthew 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

(THE LAW HAS TEN COMMANDMENTS)

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God .

Matthew 22:39 Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

The question asked Jesus was about the TEN COMMANDMENTS, Jesus answer was about all that God has to say.
---francis on 1/13/13


WHAT'S NOT TO UNDERSTAND?
---francis on 1/14/13


The question asked Jesus was about the TEN COMMANDMENTS, Jesus answer was about all that God has to say.
francis on 1/13/13
was this not clear?


I can honestly say no, Francis. But, not just me!
I believe absolutely everyone on this site, would have problems with your explanation.

I believe you completely missed what Christ is saying.
Because, you're saying breaking one law is less sinful than breaking another.

I don't blame you, everyone makes mistake.
But, you do see, this is an error, right.

God's not asking you which laws you kept and which you didn't.
Because, in truth you haven't kept any, right! You've just try to.
That's why we ask God for forgiveness of our transgressions.
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/14/13


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Gal 3:19-22 explains it perfectly

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness SHOULD HAVE BEEN by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe

Theres nothing wrong with obeying the law. It is good. But it does not make you righteous. Only the blood of Christ can do that.
---JackB on 1/14/13


Haz: "God says how the law was ended in Rom 7:1-4"

No wonder you're so confused. God is not speaking in Rom 7, but rather Paul. The "law" Paul was speaking about was not the 10C but rather the legal obligation under marriage. Have you noticed that your entire theology is based solely on Paul's letters? Even Peter wrote that Paul's writings were hard to understand:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

---jerry6593 on 1/14/13


---shira4368 on 1/13/13

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,
Romans 7:7 I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

look at the blog question.


I asked:
Now are these actual commandments given by God?
Or is this what all the law actually means as per God?
Was this not clear?
---TheSeg on 1/13/13



The question asked Jesus was about the TEN COMMANDMENTS, Jesus answer was about all that God has to say.
---francis on 1/13/13

was this not clear?
---francis on 1/13/13


"So not murdering would be a greater commandment" francis

Who cares what your opinion or idea is about which law is greater. You're a sinner like everyone (that includes me!) What's important is what God declares, this is what He has written: "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

You make light of "Thou shalt not steal." over "Thou shalt not kill." Paul made it very clear when He declared, "For the wages of sin is death" Any of God's laws that's broken has only one sentence, "DEATH!"

You've a problem, mankind has the "sentence of death" over their heads!
---christan on 1/13/13


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frances, Jesus came to save men from their sin that started in the garden of eden. the 10 commandments have nothing to do with a sinner. men can be saved without ever knowing the 10 commandments. you are so wrapped up the the 10 commandments you cannot see anything else. you have answered almost every blog here with reference to the 10 commandments. I don't know about you but I was saved by grace and it has nothing to do with the commandments. please please try another subject. God bless
---shira4368 on 1/13/13


I asked:
Now are these actual commandments given by God?
Or is this what all the law actually means as per God?
Was this not clear?

So I take it, you dont see these as actual commandments!
Nor do you believe this is the actual interpretation, of the all law!

If you dont know or dont believe, why try to explain it?
Then say: Well, Jesus could settle that.


For someone who always says, I obey the law.
To say, I can break the law and fix it later.
Is completely lost!

You see, all you can do is ask for forgiveness.
You can fix nothing!

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/13/13


---TheSeg on 1/13/13
The question asked Jesus was about the TEN COMMANDMENTS, Jesus answer was about all that God has to say.

Example: One commandment said: Thou shall not steal, and another said thou shall not murder

If i were hungry and stole something to eat, that was not so bad. I could restore it at a later date

If I killed someone, even in self defense, that was a worse offence than stealing. I could never restore that life

So not murdering would be a greater commandment

Or maybe not, see If I killed someone for trying to kill my family, I have actually saved lives, so under a given condition, stealing would be worse, because I could actually ask, rather than steal.

Well, Jesus could settle that
---francis on 1/13/13


Jerry. You misunderstand.
God says how the law was ended in Rom 7:1-4
"the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
......my brethren, ye also are become DEAD to the LAW by the body of Christ, that ye should be married to another"

And how do you return to being a transgressor/sinner? You go back under the law, Gal 2:18. SDA's are NOT DEAD to the LAW.

SDA doctrine is to profess to know Christ but denying him by works of the law (Tit 1:16).

True Christians are cleansed of sin (CEASED from sin, 1Pet 4:1) and righteous.

BUT, under SDA doctrine of works of law, sin remains (as you said). Jesus agrees that for the likes of you and the Pharisees, your sin remains (John 9:41).
---Haz27 on 1/13/13


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Francis, i asked:
Was he talking about the Ten Commandments or the Law Of Moses or Everything?

So then you agree, its the Ten Commandments, the Law Of Moses and all the prophets.
Everything!

Christ said, On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Also,
There is none other commandment greater than these.
He said and this new one!
That ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Now are these actual commandments given by God?
Or is this what the all the law actually means as per God?
Rom_13:10 Peace
---TheSeg on 1/13/13


--TheSeg on 1/12/13

The Ten commandments have two sections. 4 that have to do with our love for God and six that has to so with out love for each other ( neighbour)

Romans 13:9 Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet,.. briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Notice none of these say anything about God

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 4:8...God is love.

The character, the nature of God (LOVE) is reflected in his ten commandments, and spoken of by every prophet of God
---francis on 1/13/13


Haz: "if the Son makes you free (from SIN), you shall be free indeed".

I think you're starting to catch on. The power of Christ frees us from SIN (the transgression of the law) - NOT from the LAW.

Mat 1:21 ... and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their SINS [Not from the Law].

Joh 8:11 ... And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and SIN NO MORE [Don't keep sinning because you're under grace.].

If the law could be eliminated, then Christ need not have died on the cross. He would have just destroyed the Law by legislative fiat.

Mat 5:18 ... Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law
---jerry6593 on 1/13/13


francis

Lawyer tempting him, asked.
Which is the great commandment in the law?

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
and the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


He goes on to says:
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Here Christ said, commandments!

Please explain your view on this!
Christ used words like:
First, second, great, commandment, law and prophets!

When he said:
This is the First Great Commandment in the Law!
Is he talking about the Ten Commandments or the Law Of Moses or Everything?

How do you see it?
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/12/13


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Francis. You quote Titus 3 and wrongly link it to obedience to the law.

Note Tit 3:5, "Not by works of righteousness WE have done".
And Tit 3:7 "being justified by his GRACE".

The doctrine you follow twists scripture to deceive, just as the devil deceived Eve, 2Cor 11:3.

Jerry, you said: "sin and the Law still remain"

BUT, God says:
"if the Son makes you free (from SIN), you shall be free indeed". John 8:36
"He that is dead is FREED from sin" Rom 6:7
We've "CEASED from sin" (1Pet 4:1), "CANNOT sin" (1John 3:9)

By your works of law you deny Christ sets free from sin. Jesus says: "Therefore your sin remains" John 9:41.
---Haz27 on 1/12/13


---shira4368 on 1/12/13

Just answering the blog question.
Pointing out that the reason why Jesus came to earth to die, was because we refused to keep his commandments, and that through the mercies of God, by faith God has given to us the power to keep all of his commandments


I have to keep posting about the power available to all men to keep the laws of God

There are too many false brethren who: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 2 Timothy 3:5

I want everyone to know that God has made available to each and everyone of us his Holy Spirit to keep us obedient to his laws, and that obedience to the laws of God is not sin, is is LOVE
---francis on 1/12/13


well, here is francis again. this is the third blog. she can't help it so we need to pray for her. she is obsessed with the 10 commandments.
---shira4368 on 1/12/13


Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost,

Now having obtained God mercy and grace, and having faith n god, do I then go back to disobedience of the law of God.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
---francis on 1/12/13


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When the bible says "as the LORD commanded", who is commanding it?
---TheSeg on 1/11/13

MOSES:
Deut 4:14 the LORD commanded me (MOSES) at that time to teach you ISRAEL)statutes and judgments,

Malachi 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him (MOSES)in Horeb for all Israel,with the statutes and judgments.

Clearly the " law of Moses" is the law that God commanded Moses, and then Moses told to Israel



ISRAEL
Deut 4:12 And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire:

And the " Law of God" IS what God spoke DIRECTLY to israel

DIRECT: LAW OF GOD: TEN COMMANDMENTS

INDIRECT: LAW OF MOSES: statutes, Judgment, ordinances
---francis on 1/12/13


Haz: You fail to see the connection between law and grace. The doctrine you follow is similar to that of Pharisees. Righteousness by works of self-made law.

You profess grace, but then preach contrary to it - making presumption its substitute. The Pharisees sin was in making their own laws and expecting that God would go along with them. You similarly posit that you don't sin because you are "no longer under the Law". Yet scripture defines sin as the transgression of the Law (God's law - whether or not YOU feel obliged to keep it). So your logic contains a self-contradicting axiom.

Grace is not license to sin, but rather the mercy granted in forgiveness for the sin. The sin and the Law still remain.
---jerry6593 on 1/12/13


Children of disobedience are ones believing they are righteous in disobeying Gods 10 laws, as inspired by Satan, they are against Gods laws. Vast majority claiming Christianity are not converted to the Lord of the Sabbath Christ Jesus, and refuse his rule over their lives. James 4:12 Only the sinners are not subject to Gods laws.

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
---Follower_of_Christ on 1/12/13


---TheSeg on 1/11/13
Read through the book of Numbers to totally get the answer.

In short:
Deut 19:15 ...at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

When God spoke directly to Israel, it was easy to get two or three witnesses to verify what God has said.

How many people could verify what God had said to Moses?
NONE!!

That is why it is referred to as THE LAW OF MOSES. No one except Moses could say for 100% certain that this is exactly what God said

Jeremiah 7:22 I spake not unto your fathers, ...concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

How could they be sure of how God wanted the burnt offerings prepared. By God's voice or by Moses?
---francis on 1/12/13


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When the bible says "as the LORD commanded", who is commanding it?
It is not the lord?

So if it's not the LORD commanding Moses to speak, these things!
Then you can say these words are not of God!
Is this what you believe?

Even Christ told his twelve!
Mat_10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Just trying to understand you, if God tell you to say (this, whatever!) and you do.
Will you then tell the people, "These words are not the word of God."

Was it not God commanding you to speak?
Was it not God who spoke it, to you?
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/11/13


--TheSeg on 1/11/13
God speaks directly to ALL of Israel

LAW OF GOD
Deut 4:12 And the LORD SPAKE UNTO YOU out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude, only YE HEARD A VOICE. And HE DECLARED UNTO YOU his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU to perform, even ten commandments, and HE WROTE THEM upon two tables of stone.

God speaks to Moses, and Moses to the people

LAW of MOSES

Deut 4:14 And the LORD COMMANDED ME at that time TO TEACH YOU...

MORE PROOF:
Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers,... concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

It was Moses who spoke about burned offerings and sacrifices, God spoke ONLY the TEN COMMANDMENTS

---francis on 1/11/13


Looks like some would have you believe maybe Moses made some up.
That the words Moses spoke did not come from God.

Now this is written!
And God spake all these words, 2-17!

And so is this!
And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

There after God, spoke to Moses as asked!
Even repeating some things!
Why francis?

After that didn't God tell Moses:
Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel!
Again, why francis?

Peace
---TheSeg on 1/11/13


John 14:15 - If ye Love me , Keep my Commandments.

( To love God - is a love of works , This work does not save a person. - It is something that a believer does, and that trying to keep the commandment. )

Matthew 6:24 NO man can serve two masters, for either he will hate the One, and love the other or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other, Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
---RICHARDC on 1/11/13


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If everyone were honest they would admit what the issue is

it is NOT THESE:
Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,..
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain,
Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother:
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not Kill.
Exodus 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exodus 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exodus 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.
Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet

It is this Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
---francis on 1/11/13


The question would have to include what is considered to be the law of God that Christians are to obey.
---jan4378 on 1/11/13
BEST QUESTION YET!!!!!

Deuteronomy 5:22 These words( THE TEN COMMANDMENTS) the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: AND HE ADDED NO MORE. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

the law of God is distinguished from " the law of Moses.: In that god himself spoke the ten commandments to Israel, and God himself wrote the ten commandments of two tables of stome
---francis on 1/11/13


That belief comes to those who have seen the end of themselves. They are desperate because they recognize they are unable to do anything to change their position before a just and righteous God.

Therefore, having read that God is merciful, and is the Justifier of the ungodly, able to save to the uttermost all who come to Him, they throw themselves upon Him for redemption, and find peace with God.

Some return to weak and beggardly elements, ritual and religion, for salvation. While they have not lost their free gift, nevertheless they become wood and hay and stubble.
---Phil on 1/11/13


The question would have to include what is considered to be the law of God that Christians are to obey.

It was in the finished work of Jesus on the cross that initiated the new covenant and through Christ Jesus that Gentiles are redeemed.

As such Christians are not required to keep the old covenant but to keep the new one. Not all the commandments of the old are included in the new.
---jan4378 on 1/11/13


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"That thief did NOT obey law." Haz

I beg to differ. "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? NAY: BUT BY THE LAW OF FAITH. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

The thief on the cross was "justified by faith". He knew Christ was God or he wouldn't have said,

"Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom."
---christan on 1/11/13


It's not disobeying God's Law, to know! No man can fulfill the law.
Just like I'm not disobeying God's Law, when I know, I can't!
In fact, it does establish the law, as Holy.

For a man to say I keep or I obey the law.
Even for him to say keep the commandment is hypocritical.
Why because, you don't, you're just saying you do.
Because your asking for forgiveness!

Christ, can say keep the commandment, for he did!
But, even Christ called you hypocrite! Mat_23:2-36

For the Law is Holy and the Commandment Holy!
Will you also say I am Holy?

He told you how to keep it, Mat_7:12!
But, instead of doing the same to them, forgive them!
For they know, not!
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/10/13


Jerry. You fail to see the disconnect between law and grace.
The doctrine you follow is similar to that of Pharisees. Righteousness by works of law.
You profess grace but then preach works of law with it. Rom 11:6 says this CANNOT be.

The thief on cross who called Jesus "Lord" is God's example showing how it's grace alone. That thief did NOT obey law.

Even YOU FAIL to obey, as PERFECT obedience is required or else your guilty of ALL of it, James 2:10.

Interesting that those preaching the law avoid discussing their own failure to obey the law. Their eager to condemn though, just like the Pharisees.

Christians however obey his commandments, which are BELIEVE in Jesus and LOVE one another, 1John 3:23.
---Haz27 on 1/10/13


The same could be asked of you and your camp, francis


Why don't Jerry and francis quote people properly ???
---James_L on 1/10/13
EXAMPLE
---francis on 1/10/13


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That's really a sad thing that happened in your family shira.
I understand that some have either birth or other brain disorders
and their life is a hit or miss,but when I see a calculating individual
who makes sure to put on a show based on which audience is present,
those may very well be evil...
---Nana on 1/10/13


Jerry breaks the law everytime he sleps with his wife during her menstrual period. levitical 15:18,24

But some of God's laws do not pertain to the church, one being the observance of the Jewish Sabbath.

What happends if you work on the Jewish Sabbath? If you anwered nothing, you got the right answer.
---e.lee7537 on 1/10/13


\\You determine righteousness by obedience to the law\\
---Haz27

\\Why can't you quote people acurately?\\
---francis


The same could be asked of you and your camp, francis


\\Why do some Christians believe that disobeying God's Law is more righteous than obeying it?\\
---jerry6593


Why don't Jerry and francis quote people properly ???
---James_L on 1/10/13


Put it another way to sum up your statements and Haz statements from Galatians.

you get to choose do you want to obey the Law (Teaching) for salvation. This ultimately leads to death because we cannot keep the Law. Adam had one Law don't eat fruit from this tree, which he did.

Or faith in Christ which leans on His life that which did not break the Law.

So why do we keep the Law
1. The purpose of the Law makes us separate from the world. The Bible uses the word HOLY.
2. Practical wisdom. Even today science is learning that you need a day of rest (Sabbath). Farmers are learning leave a field unfarmed every seven years. Isolating your self during sickness is a good thing so that mass outbreaks do not occur.
---Scott1 on 1/10/13


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"So where is the disconnect?" -jerry6593

Simple, if in any doubt, turn to the Scriptures. You also said, "some Christians have stated that Christians do not need to keep the Ten Commandments". Does Scripture supports such a teaching? This is what Paul taught:

"Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW." Romans 3:30,31

See the difference?
---christan on 1/10/13


Within these CN blogs, some Christians have stated that Christians do not need to keep the Ten Commandments. Others have stated that their sins are not really sins because they need not obey any law that they ate not under, and they are not under "the law" but rather "under grace" (and I believe this is a gross misunderstanding of Paul's writings). This concept of freedom to sin is reminiscent of the olde Catholic "indulgences" - a license to sin.

Yet Christ clearly stated (Mat 5) that His Law would last as long as heaven and earth. Paul and Jeremiah wrote that THE LAW would be written in our hearts under the New Covenant. So where is the disconnect?


---jerry6593 on 1/10/13


nana, my brother was very mean to my mom and dad. he told them they were stupid and yelled at them. the neighbor across the street could hear him yelling. he only did that when we weren't around. guess what? he died a horrible death. lay on a vent for 5 years and got paranoid and skitso..(spelled wrong). he would call me and want me to get a lawyer and get him out. he even told everyone he was a preacher and used my dad's name. I am not judgeing him because God will do that on judgement day. all I am saying is he should have treated his parents with respect but he never did that.
---shira4368 on 1/9/13


"Godliness does not come from FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS, it is NOT HAVING TO follow instructions ("commands") that makes a person Godly."
more_excellent_way on 1/9/13

Not according to Jesus,
Matthew 15:4_7 "For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me,
And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you..."
---Nana on 1/9/13


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Francis. You have said "NO, NO, NO" to salvation for any who disobey the law. You clearly determine righteousness by works of the law.

The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" was cleansed of his sin and saved, without any obedience to the law.
BUT, you disagree with this example God gave us of His grace.

Instead, you call unclean what God has cleansed. You claim we're saved by grace, but then CONTRADICT this by saying that without obedience to the law we're still in sin and lost.

The doctrine you follow is a lukewarm mix of grace with works of the law. Rev 3:15-19 God calls for you to repent of this.
---Haz27 on 1/9/13


"Why do some Christians believe that disobeying God's Law is more righteous than obeying it?"

First and foremost, NO Christian ever believe in what you have just claimed. Only a false christian would say what you have just said.

There's only one punishment that God has meted out to anyone who sin against Him, "For the wages of sin is death...". So how did you ever conclude that by "disobeying God's law" makes one "more righteous than obeying it" is like what the serpent told Eve in the garden,

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil." Which was a LIE!
---christan on 1/9/13


Godliness does NOT depend on an 'obey/disobey' paradigm (reference point), Godliness depends on living peaceful and just (an ATTITUDE).

Godliness does not come from FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS, it is NOT HAVING TO follow instructions ("commands") that makes a person Godly.

Romans 2:26 "So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the PRECEPTS of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?".....walk as a child of light...(Ephesians 5:8).

Matthew 15:9 "in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'"

Psalm 119:45 "and I shall walk at liberty, for I have sought THY precepts" (James 1:25 "PERFECT LAW").
---more_excellent_way on 1/9/13


The truth that nobody wants to realize is that, for centuries, man, the 6th day creation, has taught about the three dispensations of God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) as though we ourselves should be glorified for what is divine (3 sixes). We placed the flesh where it "ought not to be" (Mark 13:14). WE ARE our own stumbling block because of the idols/desires and kingdoms of our heart. By our own choice, we have become THE victims of the "strong delusion".

Ezekiel 14:4 "takes his idols into his heart..." (God has answered by HIMSELF).
"Obedience"/disobedience is a precept of MAN.

Revelation 2:26 "and who keeps my WORKS..."....(JESUS did the "WORKS of God", John 6:28).
---more_excellent_way on 1/9/13


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You determine righteousness by obedience to the law,
---Haz27 on 1/9/13

Can you post ONE place where anyone has said " righteousness by obedienc to law?"

Why can't you quote people acurately?
---francis on 1/9/13


Christ said:
Mt5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Who reminds you of the Pharisees?

Rom3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets,
Rom3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: ...

WHAT??? RIGHTEOUSNESS WITHOUT THE LAW, BUT BY FAITH??? UGGG WHAT NEXT SALVATION BY GRACE???
---trey on 1/9/13


Jerry. Your question is misleading.

You determine righteousness by obedience to the law, just like the Pharisees did. Satan, the accuser, wants us to be under the law, with righteousness being judged by it.

Gal 2:18 tells us that those under the law "make themselves transgressors".

You, and those like you, are transgressors/sinners, as you fail to keep the law perfectly (James 2:10).

Satan has the right to accuse you, because you do not believe in Jesus, as the thief on the cross did. Instead you determine righteousness by obedience to the law.

As I've said before, you are in spiritual fornication with Hagar/works of law (Gal 4:24)
---Haz27 on 1/9/13


KarenD,
that's funny stuff.

I think Jerry was asking himself

"Who can I impress today?"

"Who can I back into a corner with my rock 'em, sock 'em?"

"They'll never see it coming"

"I'm so smart."

Take a bow, Jerry. You're quite the hit in your 3rd grade debate class
---James_L on 1/9/13


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Why do you obey the Law (teaching) from fear that he will strike you, this is the bad fear. Fear of being out of his will, the good fear of the Lord (to please him).

---Scott1 on 1/9/13


James_L...This is a silly question. Sounds like Jerry was thinking out loud and he needs to stop that nasty habit.
---KarenD on 1/9/13


Why do the moderators post idiotic questions like yours, Jerry?
---James_L on 1/9/13


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