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Are All Sins Forgiven

Rom 3:25 says that only PAST sin was remitted on the cross. As there is no more sacrifice for subsequent sin does this not confirm other scripture such as 1Pet 4:1 that we've "CEASED from sin"?

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"The only sin that remains is unbelief." -Phil on 1/23/13

UNBELIEF is rejecting what God declares: "Honour thy father and thy mother, Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's..."

turning around to say these are no more sins after becoming a Christian when they commit them. Scripture explicitly declares "for by the law is the knowledge of sin." This applies to before and after conversion.

Difference? The Christian acknowledges they are sinners and repent toward God. Whereas UNBELIEVERS say they are not and find no need to repent. Sound familiar?
---christan on 1/23/13


Scripture explicitly declares we are made of body, soul and spirit - hence the tripartite man. Now, remember Jesus is God, and God is Spirit. So then, which part of the Christian is "in Christ"? All three or only the spirit man?

I will tell you most definitely it's not the body because it's been cursed and will return to dust. Of the two left - the soul and spirit - which do you think receives the Holy Spirit in regeneration?

When the dead spirit man is "born of the Holy Spirit", that's when it cannot sin anymore. But not the soul, it still sin - hence God will sanctify the soul of the Christian to teach him the vileness of sin.
---christan on 1/23/13


The only sin that remains is unbelief.
---Phil on 1/23/13
AMEN!

For those who reject God's CLEAR statements that we've "CEASED"/"CANNOT" sin, that's ok. As long as you BELIEVE in Jesus.

But I hope these discussions have shown enough to get some seeking God for understanding.

The reason why some here reject God's claims is because they look only in physical terms.

BUT, our old man is crucified. The body is DEAD (by faith) because of sin (Rom 8:10). We're now in the Spirit and NOT in the flesh (Rom 8:9). We're a NEW CREATION, henceforth we know no man after the flesh (2Cor 5:16). It's no longer I that lives, but Christ lives in me, Gal 2:20. And in him there's NO SIN, 1John 3:5
---Haz27 on 1/23/13


Kathr said: "if we comfess our SIN He is faithful and Just to forgive us our sin."

Correct. And we did this when we received Christ. PAST sin was remitted. Now in Christ we've "CEASED"/"CANNOT" sin (1Pet 4:1, 1John 3:9).

Even though in the physical we still fail (and God disciplines us), this is not "sin" as we're NOT under the law hence Satan can't charge us of sin (Rom 8:33).
The body is DEAD (by faith) because of sin (Rom 8:10). We're now a new creation/in the Spirit.

Christians ARE holy (Rom 11:16), sanctified (Heb 10:10), perfected (Heb 10:14) by Christ's one offering.

BTW, this is NOT talking about the imperfect physical that some insist on judging righteousness by.
---Haz27 on 1/23/13


Sin is missing the mark.

Mankind is unable, in the flesh, to hit the mark, which is to become sons of God just like Jesus is.

It is apparent that no one can be like He is. So on that account, no one is free from "missing the mark, which is what sin is.

Until we are glorified, as --kathr4453 pointed out, no one is sinless, not even the saints.

Nevertheless, it is God Who justifies, not ourselves. He has made no provision for us to hit the mark apart from His Spirit.

All sin, past, present or future, is taken away by the Great Sacrifice.

The only sin that remains is unbelief.
---Phil on 1/23/13




We're not Glorified Saints yet. That day will come, and we will walk sinless lives.

Now some may not want to call their short-comings, disobedience, gossip, bad hair day temper tantrum SIN, but ya know what I DO.

Yet if we comfess our SIN He is faithful and Just to forgive us our sin. That my friend is a faith issue. Some have really messed up, even to the point of believing God couldn't possibly forgive them for : adultry, stealing etc, but if you belong to HIM, He is FAITHFUL and Justified to Forgive you. Many times we just can't forgive ourselves, and project that on to God! Sometime that SUFFERING we go through is because of OUR sinful actions decisions, yet He has promised through that, we become partakers of HIS HOLINESS!
---kathr4453 on 1/23/13


"Forgive 7x70. There is no mention of "sin" in this verse speaking of grace." Haz

Ever asked yourself why you even have to forgive someone if that someone comes and seek forgiveness from you? Did he do something good that he needs you to forgive him? Or maybe he saved your life and he wants you to forgive him for doing so? So, what are you forgiving?

The Bible is all about man sinning against God, so did Jesus have to explicitly mention "SIN" in Luke 17:3,4 for you to understand what He was teaching? After all Jesus mission was specific, "...for He shall save his people from their sins."

Still cannot comprehend?
---christan on 1/22/13


Haz, you need to stop. Don't you realize that by claiming you are sinless, there is no truth in you? Every time you answer blogs, no truth is in you?
You claim you do not need a Mediator (Jesus Christ). That your sin is not called sin anymore because you are saved. Everytime you answer concerning sinlessness, you sin, since only Christ was sinless. You make yourself equal to Jesus Christ. He was, is and always will be God. you are just another sinner.
"If you say you have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." Only believers have the truth so the passage speaks to believers. That is what you are doing. You are deceived, and no truth is in you. "The Truth is Jesus Christ."
---Mark_V. on 1/23/13


Haz" Do you realize that you are arguing with the Holy Scriptures?



---jerry6593 on 1/23/13


Haz27, it's a good-thing that some things are written more than once. A little pun!

Mat_18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat_18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Mat_18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not everyone his brother their trespasses.

On 1/22, you talked about His will and our works!
I could say a lot about His will and (y)our works.
But you've heard it all before.

If you believe it's not because of anything you've done. A pun!
He came to you first!
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/23/13




Consider God's word on WHO "sins".

Sin is transgression of the law, 1John 3:4.
And what law says it says to those UNDER IT, Rom 3:19.

BUT Christians are NOT under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9).
And where there's NO LAW there's NO TRANSGRESSION (SIN), Rom 4:15.

So Satan CAN'T charge us with sin, Rom 8:33.

Only PAST sin was remitted (Rom 3:25)and now as Christians we've "CEASED" (1Pet 4:1), "CANNOT"(1John 3:9) sin.

BUT to "sin" means your:
under the law, Gal 2:18
a "servant of sin" John 8:34
"of the devil", 1John 3:8
have not known Christ, 1John 3:6

Matt 13:43 he that has ears to hear...



---Haz27 on 1/23/13


John 10:37_42 "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized, and there he abode.
And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true.
And many believed on him there."
---Nana on 1/23/13


Christan. This blog discussion shows there's no scriptures to support the claim Christians "sin". Scripture clearly states we've "CEASED from sin"/"CANNOT sin". God says it so trust Him on this.

Even Luke 17 doesn't support you.
Note it's context.
Luke 16 speaks of those who justify themselves. BUT God knows their hearts. In the parable of the rich man, will they repent? No!

Luke 17 in contrast however, speaks NOT of the law (transgression of which is "SIN"), but it speaks of GRACE. Forgive 7x70. There is no mention of "sin" in this verse speaking of grace.

Scripture confirms scripture and as you've seen in this blog, God confirm that Christians cannot sin.
---Haz27 on 1/22/13


The Seg - excellent verses you quoted from Luke 17:3,4 with regards to repentance and forgiveness taught by Christ to a Christian. This similar relationship of repentance and forgiveness also points the Father and his people relationship, to put it in proper perspective. Repentance is clearly not a "one time thing".

This is further prove that Haz's and his likes understanding of them not sinning the minute they become a Christian is simply erroneous. Giving prove of an unregenerated heart that has not found grace with God.
---christan on 1/22/13


Jim, the lost need God in order to repent. You say:

..repent means to change your mind. So if the lost change their mind about God and Christ than they have repented."

Do you not know that before man can repent he has to be convicted of sin by the Spirit? If God does not begin a work in him, he will never repent. "Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one" (Job 14:4).
"So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy" (Rom. 9:16).
".. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will" (2 Tim. 2:25,26).
---Mark_V. on 1/22/13


repentance is going from being lost(not believing) to BELIEVING.---JIM on 1/22/13
AMEN !

Christan. Your erroneous claim about 1John 1:8 CONTRADICTS 1John 3:9 we "CANNOT sin" and also Rom 3:25, 1Pet 4:1, etc.
The evangelical context of 1John 1 shows its to unbelievers, as Jim explained.

TheSeg. God says we can't sin, I'm just quoting His word. Your example about not loving God nor our brothers is misleading as we do love God and our brothers, 1John 3:23, BELIEVE in Jesus and LOVE one another.

Jerry. The devils DON'T believe in Jesus. Nor it seems you, as you insist on works of the law instead. There is NO mixing grace with works (SDA doctrine), Rom 11:6. That's UNBELIEF.
---Haz27 on 1/22/13


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Phil. Thanks for your post. I disagree however, based on the obvious evangelical context of 1John 1. Also the claim it refers to Christians clearly contradicts 1John 3:6-9.

TheSeg: The repentance we're discussing is of DEAD WORKS, which was at conversion. This is a ONCE ONLY repentance as Heb 6 describes.

You're correct on who our brothers/sisters are, Mat_12:50 "whosoever shall do the will of my Father"

And what is His will?
John 6:40 BELIEVE in Jesus.
And what are our works?
John 6:29 BELIEVE in Jesus.

DEAD works is what we did BEFORE we came to Christ. We WERE in rebellion/sin/unbelief.

In Christ there is NO sin, 1John 3:5. Christians abide IN Christ, hence we cannot sin, 1John 3:6,9.
---Haz27 on 1/22/13


Paul alone was commissioned to the nations, and that because of Israel's defection and unwillingness to accept Christ's terms and conditions.
Rightly divide the word of truth.
Phil on 1/22/13

Maybe that's because Paul didn't hear this!
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

And he's not alone
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/22/13


1John was not written to Gentiles. This letter is written to Jews who were struggling in their faith, due to the apparent postponement of the promised Kingdom on earth.

A closer reading of verses 1-3 shows He was talking to his fellow brethren, not us.

John's ministry for us is summed up in this passage: "Because that for his name's sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles." 3Jn 1:7

By refusing a Gentile offering, traveling brethren were commended by John, an act of ascendency.

Paul alone was commissioned to the nations, and that because of Israel's defection and unwillingness to accept Christ's terms and conditions.

Rightly divide the word of truth.
---Phil on 1/22/13


And Haz27, by the way.
Your claim that Christians "sin" and then repent continuously, is NOT supported in scripture.

Just to be clear who my brothers are!
Mat_12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven,
the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.


Now you tell me. But not by my word, nor by your, but by his!
Luk_17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him, and if he repent, forgive him.
Luk_17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent, thou shalt forgive him.

Saying, I repent, thou shalt forgive him!
Clearly, supported in scripture!
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/22/13


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"Especially V3 that says "we proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you(UNBELIEVERS)also may have fellowship with us(BELIEVERS). 1John1:9 is refering to unbelievers." JIM

Good wedgy in the "UNBELIEVERS" part to your erroneous commentary. None of the epistles written are addressed to the unbelievers. Why would the epistles be addressing unbelievers anyways?

Verse 3 simply means that John was encouraging the fellow believers because he personally walked with the Lord, that's why he wrote "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."
---christan on 1/22/13


Christan...Wrong..All through verses 1 thru 8 John uses (WE) plural,not (I). It says WE(Who are we?)proclaim what we have seen and heard so that you can have fellowship with US(who are the us here?.
---JIM on 1/22/13


MarkV says:"The lost do not repent, they know not God, why should they repent?
Really MarkV...repent means to change your mind. So if the lost change their mind about God and Christ than they have repented. Biblical repentance is going from being lost(not believing) to BELIEVING.
---JIM on 1/22/13


Christan.."I welcome you to show us the verse that speaks of such "revelation" that you so claim about "gnostic believers and other cults in that time".

Do a little research.
---JIM on 1/22/13


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JIM - Wow! You beat Haz hands down! John was talking about "gnostic believers and other cults"? How did you arrive at that by just reading 1 John 1:1-10? I don't see anywhere in there that John was talking about such people.

I welcome you to show us the verse that speaks of such "revelation" that you so claim about "gnostic believers and other cults in that time".

All I see in John's address is about his personal witness and walk with Jesus Christ (verses 1 to 4), hence his apostleship. Then the fellowship with Christ as Christians (verse 5 to 7). And about sin (verses 8 to 10) the acknowledgement of it by a Christian.
---christan on 1/22/13


Haz, you say,

"Your claim that Christians "sin" and then repent continuously, is NOT supported in scripture"

Who do you think repent's? Only those who are born of the Spirit repent. The lost do not repent, they know not God, why should they repent? Don't you get it? Christians who know the Lord, repent with a contrite heart for sinning against God. They have spiritual eyes, ears and a heart to perceive that what they are doing is against God. Why do you not understand this? The longer you are a Christian the more you are able to see what sin is.
When the Spirit brings you to spiritual life, only then will you see your sin and repent.
---Mark_V. on 1/22/13


Haz: "Our works are to BELIEVE in Jesus"

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God, thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


---jerry6593 on 1/22/13


Romans 3:30_31 "Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Thinking that the law is abolished is error. Those verses speak of two peoples-yet the same, as there is only one God of both.
The law which states "Honor thy father and mother" was revalidated by Jesus in Matthew 15:3_9 and Paul in Ephesians 6:2. It is valid
for them of the circumcision as it is for us.

How about murder, adultery, theft and coveting? Without exeption, Paul declares "... the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God", 1 Corinthians 6, Without exception.
---Nana on 1/22/13


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Haz27, are you saying you can't sin.
Transgresses the Law because you are not under the law?

So if you are not under the law and you have asked forgiveness for sins that are past. Well then, you have no sin, nor can you sin.

Furthermore, since you are not under any of the law, you don't even have to love your brothers.

And what about this point in the law!
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.

Hence satan, the accuser, CAN'T charge us with sin (Rom 8:33).
Wow, what a relief!

1Jn_1:8!
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/22/13


Christan...you and others bring up 1John 1:9 quite often. John was not talking about believers, but was talking to believers about the gnostic believers and other cults in that time. Please read all of 1John 1:1-9. Especially V3 that says "we proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you(UNBELIEVERS)also may have fellowship with us(BELIEVERS). 1John1:9 is refering to unbelievers.
---JIM on 1/22/13


Christan. You said sin is "breaking one of God's law".
I assume you mean "transgression of the law", 1John 3:4.

BUT, we're NOT under the law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 5:18).
And what the law says it says to those UNDER IT (Rom 3:19).
Hence satan, the accuser, CAN'T charge us with sin (Rom 8:33).

Instead, you erroneously claim Christians sin and repent.
BUT, to repent is to feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it/stop doing it.

If you sin/transgress the Law (example: Saturday Sabbath) regularly, do you then repent regularly? This is NOT repentance.

Your claim that Christians "sin" and then repent continuously, is NOT supported in scripture
---Haz27 on 1/22/13


"Your answer suggests you don't know what the "DEAD WORKS" in Heb 6 are." Haz

I don't? Let's see, is anyone according to Scriptures saved by "works"? One's saved by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. Isn't that what Hebrews 1:1 is saying?

Believing in Jesus Christ is solely the work of grace by God in the sinner. So, to say you believe in Christ is a work by your own, that's exactly what "DEAD WORKS" means. It's also another way of saying you have to work for your salvation.

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans 11:6
---christan on 1/22/13


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"BTW, what "sin" does 1John 1:8 refer to if you really believe it speaks of Christians?" Haz

Is there other kinds of "SIN" other than breaking one of God's law? Have you stopped lying? By the evidence of your blogs here, you're quite a regular liar with regards to the Scriptures.

You claim you only need to repent ONCE before becoming a Christian - which is not what 1 John 1:8-10 implies. By saying that - you trample on the grace of God and that's because you still sin daily regardless of what you say. And what? According to you, there's no need of any more repentance sinning against God since you're now a Christian.

You know what happens when you call God a liar? I'm sure you'll find out.
---christan on 1/21/13


Jerry said: "It looks like it is you lawless ones that are carnally minded"

BUT, FACT is, SDA's DON'T keep the law. They're guilty of ALL of it (James 2:10).
Yet SDA's continue to avoid discussion of this.

SDA's preach works of the law, establishing their own righteousness (Rom 10:3), seeking to be perfected by the flesh (Gal 3:3). They're carnally minded with their failed works of the law.

Christan. the evangelical context of 1John 1 contradicts your claim 1John 1:8 refers to Christians. 1John 3:3-9 also contradicts your claim Christians sin. And also 1Pet 4:1, Rom 3:25, John 8:36, 1Pet 4:18, Rom 6:2,7, etc.

BTW, what "sin" does 1John 1:8 refer to if you really believe it speaks of Christians?
---Haz27 on 1/21/13


Christan. Your answer suggests you don't know what the "DEAD WORKS" in Heb 6 are.

Our works are to BELIEVE in Jesus, John 6:29. These are GOOD works.

DEAD WORKS are works of self-righteousness. This is rebellion against God.

When we receive Christ we REPENT of these DEAD WORKS (unbelief) we did in rebellion.

To repent means to stop the offense/turn away from it. Hence why Heb 6 describes repentance as a ONCE ONLY thing.
But you erroneously suggest we repent CONTINUOUSLY of the SAME offenses. This is NOT repentance and also your claim is not supported in scripture.
---Haz27 on 1/21/13


"The context for 1 John 1 is to the lost." Haz

Seriously? Epistles were written to and for the lost? Read verses 1 to 3 of 1 John 1 and tell me John was addressing to the lost or even about the lost. For in verse 4, he says "And these things we write to you that your joy may be full." For the lost?

Then verses 5 to 10 talks about the fellowship the sinner who now is a Christian has with Jesus. So you see, the context of all the Epistles is only for the Christians and never for the lost and that's because the lost doesn't even believe in the Word, let alone read the Bible about who they are!
---christan on 1/21/13


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christan The writer declares, "For it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened..., which means, these were never saved by the grace of God to begin with. Basically, their confession were false.

Really, it says no such thing: It does say they were able to "tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come".. If they were able to taste heavenly gift and become partakers of the Holy Spirit" How were not saved by grace? Your blind believes forces you to read into scripture what is not there!
---Ruben on 1/21/13


"Haz: "To live after the flesh is to be under the law. Works of the law is being carnally minded."

Boy, did you get that one backwards!

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

It looks like it is you lawless ones that are carnally minded - not the obedient to God's Law.

Is everything backwards with you? You seem to believe that the more you sin, the more righteous you are."


---jerry6593 on 1/21/13
---Nana on 1/21/13


"Repentance is of "DEAD WORKS" (Heb 6:1), which is a ONCE ONLY repentance (Heb 6:4-6)." Haz

Erroneous to say the least! The "repentance from dead works" in Hebrews 6 speaks about those who initially claim to believe in Christ and then later on in their lives fall away and then return again to the faith.

The writer declares, "For it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened..., which means, these were never saved by the grace of God to begin with. Basically, their confession were false.

Hebrews 6:1-6 doesn't imply that after being saved by God's grace, you do not need to repent of your sins anymore! That's satan talking to you, not the Spirit.
---christan on 1/21/13


Christan. The context for 1John 1 is to the lost. It declares eternal life so that they "ALSO MAY HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH...THE FATHER AND HIS SON"

The soul that "sins" dies (Eze 18).
He who sins is:
"of the devil",1John 3:8
"servant of sin",John 8:34
has not known Christ,1John 3:6.

These scriptures confirm Rom 3:25, 1Pet 4:1, 1John 3:9, that Christians have "CEASED from sin", "CANNOT sin".

BTW, dictionary definitions below.
CEASED: END, STOP
CANNOT: INCAPACITY, INABILITY

But if you insist Christians still "sin", that's ok (but hinders understanding). Your saved by grace and that's what matters.


---Haz27 on 1/21/13


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Haz, you also contradicts (Heb. 12:5-11). If you insist your without sin, then you are not a legitiment son of God. For all sons are partakers of the chastening of God.
"If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? "But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons" We pay respect to God for correcting us when we fail and sin.
"Furthermore, we have had human fathers who correct us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of Spirits and live?
You claim to not sin, which tells us you are not a son, because all sin.
---Mark_V. on 1/21/13


Haz: "To live after the flesh is to be under the law. Works of the law is being carnally minded."

Boy, did you get that one backwards!

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

It looks like it is you lawless ones that are carnally minded - not the obedient to God's Law.

Is everything backwards with you? You seem to believe that the more you sin, the more righteous you are.


---jerry6593 on 1/21/13


"BUT you claim Christians STILL sin. How do you reconcile your contradiction with scripture?" Haz

I claim? No, it's the Bible that declares: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:8-10

Scripture NEVER contradict Scripture. Which then means your understanding of Romans 3:25, 1 Peter 4:1 and 1 John 3:9 of a Christian CANNOT sin is erroneous. Just bear in mind that the man was created tripartite.
---christan on 1/20/13


Trey. Do you believe your old man has been crucified (Rom 6:6)?
Do you see nail holes in your hands/feet? Or do you accept this by faith?

If we believe in Jesus then he is in us and our body is DEAD (by faith), Rom 8:10. If it's dead, then how can Satan, the accuser, charge us with sin? He CAN'T, Rom 8:33

He that is dead is FREED from sin, Rom 6:7
HOW shall we that are dead to sin, live in it any longer? Rom 6:2

Re 1John 1:8, it's evangelical context shows this is not referring to Christians.

BTW, we keep his commandments (1John 3:23) believe in Jesus and love one another. There's your moral law.
---Haz27 on 1/20/13


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Jerry. Your claim that Rom 3:25 refers to past sins up to the point of our continual repenting/confessing them, is NOT supported in scripture.

Repentance is of "DEAD WORKS" (Heb 6:1), which is a ONCE ONLY repentance (Heb 6:4-6).

We repented/confessed when we first received Christ. After that there's no more repentance, as Heb 6 confirms.

Only PAST sin was remitted (Rom 3:25), after which we've "CEASED from sin" (1Pet 4:1), "CANNOT sin" (1John 3:9).
As you can see here, scripture confirms scripture.

Nana. To live after the flesh is to be under the law. Works of the law is being carnally minded.
---Haz27 on 1/20/13


Romans 8 states:
v8. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
v13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Notice Paul saying to those 'dead in Christ', "... if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."
Be it dead or alive, God says:
Deuteronomy 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both you and your seed may live:"
---Nana on 1/20/13


Haz,
2 Cor 5:16 Paul is telling us that we have been born again, we have the Spirit of God dwelling in us, and that our spiritual man is able to please God.

Rom 7:24 Paul tells us that we are still in these sinful bodies. This is a concept I believe you are missing.

Rom 8:9 Paul is simply stating that if the Spirit of God dwells in us that we are one of God's children.

I John 1:8 John is instructing us that we are sinners. If we were not sinners or were capable of ceasing from sin then the death of Christ on the cross would be unnecessary.

I assure you we are still under the Moral Law of God (example: Thou shall have no other God's before me, thou shall not kill, thou shall not bear false witness. etc.)
---trey on 1/20/13


Christan. Rom 3:25 only PAST sin was remitted on the cross. 1Pet 4:1 we've "CEASED from sin" and 1John 3:9 "CANNOT sin".
BUT you claim Christians STILL sin. How do you reconcile your contradiction with scripture?

Regarding we're "not in the flesh", SCRIPTURE SAYS IT.
Our old man was crucified with Christ, and he that is DEAD is FREED from sin (Rom 6:6,7). Henceforth we regard nobody after to the flesh, 2Cor5:16.

We see Christ in Christians so don't judge each other by physical behavior of sin/transgressions of the law.

Nana. The body is DEAD (Rom 8:10). Look to the spiritual now and avoid spiritual fornication with Hagar (works of the law).
---Haz27 on 1/20/13


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Haz: Oh boy, a new concept!

CLEAN SIN !!!!!!!!!!

Now there's an oxymoron for you!




---jerry6593 on 1/20/13


Haz: You read scripture through a distorted paradigm. Rom 3:25 is not inferring that only sins before the time of the cross are forgiven, but that only OUR past sins (which have been repented and confessed and) are forgiven. Thus proving the opposite of your "future immunity to sin" thesis.

Remember, Jesus said "Go and sin NO MORE".


---jerry6593 on 1/20/13


"As there is no more sacrifice for subsequent sin does this not confirm other scripture such as 1Pet 4:1 that we've "CEASED from sin"?" Yes.
"BUT Christians are NOT in the flesh." Haz According to these verses of scripture you are absolutely correct. "So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." Refs. Rom 8:1-5 The flesh in this context is in reference to the carnality of mans thinking. Verses 6-9 See also Heb. 13:16,21>1 John 3:22 in reference to the called and chosen.
---josef on 1/20/13


"BUT Christians are NOT in the flesh." Haz

There you go again. Maybe you would like to take a hammer and give yourself a good hit right on that head of yours now and tell us you "are not in the flesh", so there should be no pain whatsover. Better still, go stand in the middle of the freeway and see what happens when that truck or car come barelling down on you.

I'm sure you have nothing to worry as you're "not in the flesh", right?

You miss the whole point of the context in Romans 7 and that's why your understanding of "ceased from sin" is so utterly erroneous.
---christan on 1/19/13


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1Cor.10

4_8 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them, as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand."

Haz, are you saying that fornication, idolatry and the lust for evil are "deeds of the law"?
---Nana on 1/19/13


Jerry said: "We are NOT righteous while commiting sins...."

Here you call unclean what God has cleansed.
You judge righteousness by works of the law.
Gal 3:3 says: "having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"

HOW do we turn back to sin?
Gal 2:18 "if I build again the things which I destroyed (works of the law), I make myself a transgressor (SINNER)"

To keep your body under subjection (1Cor 9:27) is to believe in Jesus and not return to self-righteousness (deeds of the law).
And being thus in Christ, the body is DEAD (Rom 8:10), and we're a new creation that has "CEASED from sin".

Our FAITH is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5

---Haz27 on 1/19/13


Trey. Rom7:18 I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:

BUT Christians are NOT in the flesh.
Rom 8:9 "But ye are NOT in the flesh, but in the Spirit"

We're a new creation (2Cor 5:16), "henceforth know we we no man after the flesh".

So yes, the flesh is evil/sins. But scripture shows we're NOT in the flesh. We've CEASED from sin/cannot sin.

Regarding 1John 1:8, note the context from verses before. It's evangelical, declaring eternal life to those in darkness (without Christ).
If 1John 1:8 referred to Christians what "sin" is it?
It's not transgression of the law (1John 3:4) as we're not under the law.
It's not unbelief (John 16:9) as we're believers.
---Haz27 on 1/19/13


Haz: "What I'm saying is that in Christ we are righteous. Satan cannot accuse us of sin."

We are NOT righteous while commiting sins. It is Christ that is righteous - not us. And, while we hold fast to our redeemer, we may for a time go sinless (i.e., keep all Ten Commandments), nevertheless, we always have the option to let go of Christ and return to our sins. Your claim that you are immune to sin because you take the name of Christ is specious at best.

Joh 8:11 ... go, and sin no more.

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


---jerry6593 on 1/19/13


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Hi Haz,

The scriptures teach:
1John3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The scriptures also teach:
1John1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Our new man (Col 3:10) our inner man (Eph 3:16) our spirit after the new birth does not sin. Therefore when we die the new man goes to be with God.

The scriptures also teach:
Rom7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:
In other words our flesh continues to sin until the day we die!
---trey on 1/19/13


Kathr. What I'm saying is that in Christ we are righteous. Satan cannot accuse us of sin. As for the imperfect physical we still see, it's dead because of sin (Rom 8:10).

Christan. Since our body is DEAD because of sin, then why would we then judge it of transgression of the law/sin? It's dead!

We're now a new creation (2Cor 5:16), "henceforth know we we no man after the flesh".

Instead we see Christ in us. I no longer live but Christ lives in me, Gal 2:20. and in Christ there is no sin, 1John 3:5. Thus we've "Ceased from sin" (1Pet 4:1), "CANNOT sin" (1John 3:9).
---Haz27 on 1/18/13


Yes, that is what it means: Let me explain. "We have ceased from sin". We need no longer live the rest of our life in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. Jesus payed the fine [atonement] and He is our advocate [the lawyer] to keep us out of jail [HELL]. For the sins of the whole world: does not mean everyone is automaticly going to be saved Note: When we ask God to forgive us of our sins, even though, you know of no known sins, as God put it to me it is an acknowledgment. If we actually walk into sin, we will be out of fellowship with the Father, darkness or unrighteousness. But our advocate [the lawyer] will get us out of the difficulty. [stand before the Father].
---pat on 1/18/13


"If your in the Spirit that means Christ is in you..." Haz

Ahhh.... finally, there you go - the spirit! Isn't the fleshly vessel a residing place for the spirit and soul? I have no issue that when a sinner who's born of the Spirit, it's his spirit that "cannot sin", not the flesh or soul. Your attitude of "not sinning" is typical of one who's an antinomian, know what's that?

If you think you're sinless even after conversion, John warns: "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." and isn't this from 1 John 1 before 3:5,6? John calls you a liar and His Word is not in you.
---christan on 1/18/13


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Christan. Rom 7 speaks of the battle within man. Rom 7:17,18 says "sin that dwelleth in me. I know that in me (THAT IS IN MY FLESH) dwelleth no good thing.

So WHO rules you, as a Christian? The Flesh OR the Spirit?
Rom 8:9 "But you are NOT in the flesh, but in the Spirit".

If your in the Spirit that means Christ is in you and the body is DEAD because of sin (Rom 8:10). hence Christians have "CEASED from sin" (1Pet 4:1) "CANNOT sin" (1John 3:9).

We abide in Christ and in him there's NO SIN (1John 3:5,6).

And, my question to you is if you claim you still sin (transgression of the law) then HOW do you reconcile this with Rom 3:25 that only PAST sin was remitted at the cross?
---Haz27 on 1/18/13


"As for future sins (transgression of the law, 1John 3:4), there are none." Haz

You've still to address what Paul's Romans 7 was all about if you "believe" what you said. And mind you, Paul was already a Christian when he wrote the epistles. So why then did he write Romans 7 if you're right in your understanding?

Which then means your understanding of 1 John 3:4 is completely erroneous to say the least. And that's because John wasn't referring to the flesh when he wrote 1 John 3 - he was talking about the "born of the Spirit" part of the sinner - which was his once dead spirit to God.

The reference is not about the flesh - hence you have Romans 7.
---christan on 1/18/13


"Can you explain why you reject that Rom 3:25 says only PAST sin was remitted?" Haz

Reject Romans 3:25?

Listen carefully, what I reject is your understanding and not Romans 3:25. And that's because it does not concur with your explanation one iota. Worse still, to compound your erroneous understanding, you use 1 John 3:4 to justify what you believe.

Let me ask you one simple question base on your understanding: if you claim that you have become sinless after "receiving Christ" in the flesh - why do you still return to dust? Isn't God unjust to "destroy" your flesh now that you're sinless? See where you've erred?
---christan on 1/18/13


1stPeter4:1says, those who have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin.

So what we have here is 1, our position in Christ,
2, our possession of Christ.

Haz27, do you say you have 100% victory over this world, self, and sin Walla, just like that? I believe you are confusing your position in Christ, with what you actually possess in growth and maturity through the fellowship of His sufferings.

Little children know their sins are forgiven, but don't remain a little child. Move on to a young man who has overcome the evil one, and then to a father, who can bring others along in Christ.
---kathr4453 on 1/18/13


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Haz, you sin but don't want to call it sin. In this life you walk in the flesh til you die. You contradict other passages with your theory of sinlessness. You use John 1:29) to claim Jesus did away with sin from every person in the world. If He did then everyone is saved, which is not true at all. "The world" in the passage does not mean every single person, but humanity in general. The notation of humanity in general, not specifically every person. The use of the singular "sin" in conjunction with "of" of the world indicates that Jesus sacrifice for sin potentially reaches all human beings without distinction, but John makes clear however that its efficaious effect is only for those who receive Christ (vv. 11,12).
---Mark_V. on 1/18/13


Mark Eaton. Jesus took away the sin of the world, John 1:29.
If God has cleansed us from sin then why say that we're still unclean (Acts 11:9)?

You're correct, there was and is only ONE sacrifice by Christ. After that there is no more sin (1Pet 4:1, 1John 3:9).

Trey: You're correct in that the this physical life we live is not perfect. But it's dead (by faith) anyway (Rom 8:10, Rom 6:6).
Hence we no longer see each other according to the flesh. We're a new creation. And in Christ we cannot sin (1John 3:6-9).
---Haz27 on 1/17/13


i know the bible indicates that needless argument is a sin. i expect rehashing the same topics from non-christians that call themselves christian. maybe we should reflect on this.
---aka on 1/17/13


Haz, let us examine what the Apostle Paul is really saying:

Rom 3:25
Whom God had set forth to be a propitiation, - That is Christ the atoning victim who redeemed the saints and atoned for their sins.

through faith in his blood - the blood shed by Christ! Our faith bears record of what Christ has done.

for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God: - by sins that are past Paul is speaking of sins committed by the saints, and particularly by the old testament saints who were under the law. Paul showing that the Old Testament worship service and it's sacrifices never paid for sins.

to declare his righteousness - That is Christ's righteousness.
---trey on 1/17/13


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Haz, now let's examine 1 Peter 4:1 & 2
1Pet4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin,
Christ suffered in the flesh for us, we should let this mind be in us which is in Christ that we put off the old man. (This does not mean that we will ever completely stop sinning until we die. It means that we no long joy in sin.)

I.E. Our old man enjoys sin, and lusting after the things of this world, etc.

Our new man hates the things of this world and loves the things of God.

We still though are subject to living in our sinful flesh and will never cease from sin until we die.
---trey on 1/17/13


Christan. The cut off point where our past sins were remitted was when we received Christ. Our old man was crucified with him (Rom 6:6). And as Rom 6:7 says, he that is dead is FREED from sin.

As for future sins (transgression of the law, 1John 3:4), there are none.
We're NOT UNDER the law for righteousness (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 5:18). So Satan, the ACCUSER, can no longer charge us with "sin", Rom 8:33. We've "CEASED from sin (1Pet 4:1), "CANNOT sin" (1John 3:9).

But for a Christian to sin again they would have to go back under the law. Thus they make themselves a sinner, Gal 2:18.

Can you explain why you reject that Rom 3:25 says only PAST sin was remitted?
---Haz27 on 1/17/13


Hebrews 10 begins with verse 1, comparing the blood of bulls and goats to the Blood of Jesus.

Hebrews 10 is also a warning to JEWS who want to continue to practice animal sacrifice, explaining that Jesus is that sacrifice ONCE AND FOR ALL, called the FINISHED works of Christ. It was FINISHED at the Cross. The blood of bulls and goats was daily, weekly and yearly.

There is no more "ANIMAL SACRIFICE" for sin. This warning continues to say, if you continue to do animal sacrifices, then you have infact INSULTED the Spirit of Grace, Counted the Blood of the Covenant (Jesus Blood Covenant) a common thing and
trampled underfoot Jesus Christ Himself.

These verses have nothing to do with sinless perfection.
---kathr4453 on 1/17/13


Rom 3:25 says that only PAST sin was remitted on the cross. As there is no more sacrifice for subsequent sin does this not confirm other scripture such as 1Pet 4:1 that we've "CEASED from sin"?
---Haz27 on 1/16/13

You are poorly quoting Heb 10:26 which has nothing to do with Christianity, but has to do with Judaism.

Look at the connection between these verses:

Heb 10:18 "Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin"

Heb 10:26 "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins"

After Christ, there is no offering or sacrifice for sins other than the one He made.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/17/13


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Phil, you say,

"
"God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing "in us" the word of the conciliation." 2C 5:19"


New KJV,
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing thier trespasses unto them, and hath committed "unto us" the word of reconciliation"

If you read the passage carefully you will know the writer was talking about the "us" believers. They are the only ones who are reconciled to God. Not the unbelievers. Read the passages in the correct context. Don't take a passage out of the context to use your own meaning.

---Mark_V. on 1/17/13


"God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of the conciliation." 2C 5:19

God is at peace with all men, their sins having been dealt with at Calvary.

This revelation was given only to Paul, our apostle. It is the latest revelation to all men. It was preached to the Jews first. They refused the message. Acts 28:26

The condemnation now is failing to believe on Him whom God sent into the world. Jn 3:17-18

Israel needs pardon from their King to enter the Kingdom.

We do not. Ro 8:30
---Phil on 1/16/13


Haz, your understanding of Romans 3:25 is very flawed or as theologians would say, erroneous. You keep saying "that only PAST sin was remitted" when Romans 3:25 does not even mean that.

So, let me ask you this:
- at what point in your life are your sins classified as past sin?
- that is, where's the cut-off point?
- moving on from there, what becomes of the future sins you commit till the day you die?

And maybe you would like to explain Romans 7, which contradicts your understanding to the core.
---christan on 1/17/13


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