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Let's Talk About Demons

We know angels, demons and satan are mentioned in Scripture, and what they did in many stories. What are they doing today, and can you actually see them working, like stopping cars or trains? Who is responsible for this works?

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 ---Mark_V. on 1/17/13
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Greetings, with much Respect to you bro.Leon, a wondrfull post here about how the angels help us at the rrquest certainly of God. I truly believe the Lord moves on our behalf in many ways! I was in walk across the street many years ago next thing I see the neighbors son flying down almost. on top of me with his.car noisy, old time dusty!
The Lord blessed me" quickly even as fat I am, I was moving try to make it in the house.
---ELENA on 1/30/13


What are angels doing today...? God's angels are ever serving Him according to His will & holy purposes in our lives, e.g., by miraculously stopping cars, trains, etc. The devil's unholy angels/demons are serving his diabolical agenda of stealing, killing & destroying.

God's angels can be seen, in human form, ONLY as He makes possible for His good pleasure. Satan's demons possess people & animals to visibly show themselves. They CAN'T materialize any other way.

God is "GOD" over everything in heaven & earth. He authorizes His angels to do His will. God allows, with limitations, the devil (god of this world) & demons to run wild but for a season, then they'll be cast into the Lake of Fire.
---Leon on 1/30/13


Gordon, Charles Stanley once did teach contrary to OSAS, but he switched, and said of one who thinks he can walk away, "You will meet a wall of discipline". If you believe that you will overcome the world in your own strength, then you don't need Jesus:
John 16:33 .... In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.
And only in Him do we triumph:
1 John 4:4 You, .., are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
God takes all the glory, there's not one jot for us:
Psalm 115:1 ... to your name be the glory, because of your love and faithfulness.
Can man be more faithful than God?
---John_II on 1/30/13


Gordon, have you ever offered to do a good turn for someone, and their reply has been, "Oh, go on then, I'll let you"? I know that I have. So high is that person's pride that he sees it as though he is giving the presenter the honour of doing him the favour. Are you allowing God to have the honour of giving you the gift of salvation, with you being a saint and all?

No-one can boast about anything except the Lord in Heaven (Romans 3:27). Or have you supposed that one in Heaven can say to another, "You got saved, great! Man, were you a sinner! But as for me, being a saint and all, well I allowed God to saved me"?

If you are a saint, then surely it is better to let others say so (Proverbs 27:2)
---John_II on 1/30/13


JOHN II, We are to Love GOD with a special reverential Fear, Respect and Honour. For, the Scriptures say that the proper Fear of GOD is Wisdom (PSALM 111:10), and the Fear of GOD is Knowledge (PROVERBS 1:7). And, all men should Fear GOD, with Respect and Honour, tempered with a certain Dread, which does help keep SOME in line, for it is GOD, alone, Who can "cast both body and soul into Hell." (LUKE 12:5) HIS Wrath is as great as HIS Mercy and Love! (JOHN 3:36) OSAS keeps people believeing that they cannot "really" overcome their personal sin in their lives, and it also gives the impression that they're not expected to. But, only the Overcomers who OBEY GOD will enter GOD's Kingdom (REVELATION 3:21, 21:7 and 22:14.)
---Gordon on 1/30/13




Mark V, In HEBREWS 10:26-30, that one who is "sanctified" is not a reference to YAHUSHUA Himself. HEBREWS 10 is speaking of one who is sanctified (set-apart unto GOD) who despised his own Salvation by returning back into sin and refusing to repent of it. Verse 30 sums it up that this Chapter is addressing GOD's people as it says "...And, again, the LORD shall judge HIS people." The Apostle worked out his own Salvation with Fear and Trembling (PHILIPPIANS 2:12) so that he would not end up as a "castaway" (I CORINTHIANS 9:27.)(The Apostle died daily to his flesh lest he become a "castaway" like the "branches that are dried up and CAST AWAY into the Fire, of Hell. (JOHN 15:6)
---Gordon on 1/30/13


Gordon, you talk of love & relationships, and Scripture says:
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
So, should a OSAS-believer fear damnation if he is being made more perfect in love? You will say to me that the fear of damnation diminishes the closer he gets to being more perfect-in-love as a product of becoming more obedient - more saintly. Well, even though there is a correlation between being obedient and being more perfect in love...
John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, ....
... this is not to do with staying out of Hell by his own will.
---John_II on 1/29/13


Gordon, why don't you do a study on eternal salvation, secure in Christ. everlasting, forever and ever. without end. no one can pluck me out of God's hand. the older lady didn't do you any favors. I am an old lady and I can show you we are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ.
---shira4368 on 1/29/13


Gordon, Charles Stanley is a preacher on how to live a godly life. He believes in free will, which is a mystery to me. But the question is not him, the question is us, as individuals. I cannot change anyone's heart. My duty is to speak for the truth, the rest is up to God.
It is our duty to seek assurance of our salvation with diligence. This is not done out of curiosity about the state of our soul, but to enhance our growth in sanctification. Christians who remain uncertain about the state of their salvation are subject to all sorts of questions that paralyzes their walk with Christ if they are saved. They stumble in doubt and are very vulnerable to the assaults of satan. If the word came to you with assurance, you should have faith.
---Mark_V. on 1/29/13


Gordon, I can only answer to what you say. Here is what the Bible says of those of the elect,

"Knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God. For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and the Holy Spirit and in much assurance as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake" (1 Thess. 1:4,5).

Here is what we know, the brethren are the elect of God. When the Word came to them, it didn't come in word only, it came also with power, and the Holy Spirit. And what else? "in much assurance" You have no assurance.
That means the word came to you with no power or the Holy Spirit, just like many out there who claim they are Christians.
---Mark_V. on 1/29/13




Mark V, I'm not looking for you to convince me. I know, from my own experience, what OSAS doctrine is and what it teaches (I was into Charles Stanley's teachings.) I lived out OSAS for 20 years. In that time, an older Christian lady tried, by GOD's Unction, to warn me about OSAS. But, I would not listen to her. Now I wish that I would've. I'd've seen what GOD's Expectations of the Christian Life really ARE to be. The Apostle, when he wrote his Epistles to the Church, addressed them as "Saints", not "Sinners". For, Saints are what we ARE. The term "Saint" means "Holy" and "Set-Apart unto GOD". Whereas, we know what will happen to "Sinners" on Judgment Day, as per REVELATION 21:8.
---Gordon on 1/29/13


Gordon, you are trying to contribute to salvation, this is why you want to be regarded as a saint and not a sinner. Have you not read Luke 18:9-14:
I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself...
And what had the tax collector said:
God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

The gift of salvation is just that - a gift. Once you offer a contribution then the gift is not longer a gift but part of a transaction. By your saying that a Christian isn't OSAS, you burden the Christian with a choice about whether to put in the work in order to remain saved or not. Non-OSAS teaching is made lucrative because of the fear of damnation.
---John_II on 1/29/13


Romans 9:16 So then it not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but him that God sheweth mercy.

Romans 9:17 - FOR the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, - I Raised thee up , that I might shew my power in thee. and that my name might be declared throughout all earth.

Romans 9:18 - Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy on, and whom he will he hardeneth,
---RICHARDC on 1/29/13


Gordon, I do think as a sinner because in this live I am still a sinner. "If we say that we have not sin, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is not in us" ( 1 John 1:8) The Truth is in me Gordon but I still sin.
I'm not mad at you, for you have a right to belief you can be lost to the devil and hell if you want. Your faith is not in Christ but in man and satan. I cannot help you. What can I possibly do to convince you otherwise? Nothing. You were not bought by your own works, how can you be lost by your own works? I cannot blame you, you just don't believe in the Lord. I cannot make you belief. I am only the messenger not the giver of faith. Jesus is the Author of our faith for He is God.
---Mark_V. on 1/29/13


Re The Vine and the branches: Since YAHUSHUA is the Vine, that means ALL of the branches are truly of Him at the start of it all. Because it's from Him that the branches have sprouted forth from! Some branches remain in Him and produce Good Fruits. While, other branches do not remain in Him, and they dry up, wither, and are of no use to anyone, so they are cast into the Fires.
---Gordon on 1/29/13


JOHN II, GOD created man with free-will. Even in Salvation. All loving relationships require that all the parties involved have free-will choice. That's what makes love and relationships so valuable. 'Cause you'll know it's from your choice and it's not forced upon you. You're committing yourself to your loved-ones, no matter what difficult challenges arise. And, with free-will we are tested, by GOD, in Adversities and Tribulations. For Growth, sure, but, growth only happens when we make the choices WILLINGLY to go through those Trials and Testings, allowing GOD's Spirit to lead, strengthen and enable us. And we have to be WILLING everyday, every minute. GOD is not manipulating "Christian robots".
---Gordon on 1/29/13


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Re: OSAS: Are not God's gift of eternal life (Ephesians 2:8) and calling thereof (John 6:44) irrevocable:
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

And it's the Father's will that Jesus lose none:

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
---John_II on 1/28/13


Mark V, YAHUSHUA is the Vine, and His Followers are THE BRANCHES". He's saying that ALL of those BRANCHES are OF HIM. Only true Christians can be ABIDERS. If they were not true Christians, they would not be a part of the true Vine to begin with! Those dried up branches had ABIDED IN YAHUSHUA, Mark. But, they STOPPED ABIDING, and they dried up and were cast into Hell at Death. I am more convinced than ever of how wrong your way of believing is, Mark. And, you call yourself a "Sinner". But Believers are to consider themselves as SAINTS. If you keep calling yourself a Sinner, you will think like one. And, that makes one CLING to "OSAS", for fear of Damnation b/c of their on-going sins.
---Gordon on 1/28/13


Gordon, you are now giving a metaphor. The vine is commonly used as a symbol for Israel (Ps 80:9-16: Is. 5:1-7 etc). Jesus identifies Himself as the "true vine" the Father as the "vinedresser". The vine has two types of branches, branches that bear fruit (v.2,8) and branches that do not (v. 2,6) The branches that bear fruit are genuine believers. The branches that do not bear fruit are those who profess to believe but their lack of faith indicates genuine salvation has never taken place and they have no life from the vine. Here Judas was in view, but the metaphor extends from him to all those who make a profession of faith in Christ but do not actually possess salvation, they are the branches being burned.
---Mark_V. on 1/28/13


Mark V, YAHUSHUA says in JOHN 15:5-7, "I (YAHUSHUA) Am the Vine, ye (all Followers of GOD) are the branches: He that abideth in Me (he that stays or REMAINS in Me), and I in him, the same bringeth forth much Fruit...IF a man abide not in Me (MEANING, Mark, that, someone has to remain in Him in the first place to be "abiding" in Him, because THAT'S what "abide" means! To be in or with someone or something. Look "abide" up in a good Dictionary! Look up "abide" in a Concordance to get it's real meaning!) He says "...IF a man abide not in me (IF a man REMAIN NOT in Me), he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered (dried up)...and cast...into the Fire (metaphor for Hell), and they are burned."
---Gordon on 1/28/13


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Gordon, by holding on to the "free will concept" the power of man over God in your mind, you decided to add to Scripture the power of man. There is a warning for that too, read (Rev.22:18,19). You added "if you are willing" to the passage what is not there:
"Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you, (believers) so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 'who will also sustain you to the end," that you maybe blameless in the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord" ( 1 Cor. 1:6-9).
Nothing about 'if you are willing. Walk into the light Gordon.
---Mark_V. on 1/28/13


Mark V, I never said that YAHUSHUA does not or "cannot" sustain His people until the end. For He is MORE THAN CAPABLE of "holding onto His own", if they are willing. It's always a Choice, Mark. Not OSAS. The Saved person has to also continue WANT TO BE "sustained until the End." Being in a Salvation-Lordship Relationship with YAHUSHUA (JESUS) is like any other relationship, And, BY THAT I MEAN that both parties must pull their required weight, as it were, of giving and receiving Love and doing what is expected from each Other. GOD does expect us to "work out our Salvation with Fear and Trembling". So, fret not, I have not blasphemed the RUACH Ha KODESH. I have merely stated the Truth, as in HEBREWS 10.
---Gordon on 1/27/13


Gordon, your making a big mistake getting personal. You are compromising the Truth only because I have disagreed with you before on other blogs.
So I give you a warning that is found in Scripture. The unpardonable sin. Let me explain,
Even a Pharisee like Paul could be forgiven for speaking against the Son of Man or persecuting His followers because his unbelief stemmed from ignorance ( 1 Tim. 1:13) but those who know His (Jesus) claims are true and reject Him anyway sin against the Holy Spirit because it is the Holy Spirit who testifies of Christ and makes His truth known to us (John 15:26: 16:14,15).
You are not ignorant yet claim that Jesus cannot sustain us till the end as the word tells us, displaying no faith in Christ.
---Mark_V. on 1/27/13


Mark V, You can't leave something if you were never really a part of it in the first place. You can't depart from something if you were not really a part of it from the start. And, HEBREWS 10:29's "sanctified" is about one who was Saved. Verse 30 attests that it is of someone who was of "GOD's people". Verse 10, also, speaks of the "sanctified" as a Believer.
---Gordon on 1/26/13


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Mat 7:22

good example of OSAS and its consequences.

it does not say that we must be conceived again, it says born again which implies delivery. saved is after delivery.
---aka on 1/26/13


Re OSAS: If you are truly in the faith, and not just someone who is flirting with it, then how can you walk away from salvation being that you are not your own?

1 Cor 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own, you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

(Mark V has already mention that Christians have been sealed with the Holy Spirit. I cannot imagine how God's seal could be removed by man. Rev 5:3 & 3:7.)

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.


This verse is implicit in that who God saves, He saves.
---John_II on 1/26/13


1 Timothy 4:1_2 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,
Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron,..."

Galatians 2:11 "But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed."
Are we to believe that some go no farther than just blame as such? I do not.
Even Christ said,

Matthew 24:10 "And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another."
Matthew 24:12 "And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
That's plain and clear.
---Nana on 1/26/13


Gordon, you need a heart perceive. A person just beginning to hear the gospel Truth, and have not committed their life to Christ by faith, and walk away, they are departing from the faith. Many right now in Churches everywhere are not saved, no faith in Christ, sooner or later they will leave the faith, the gospel. Those people were never saved.
"They went out from "us," but they were not of "us" for if they had been of "us" they would have continued with "us" but they went out that they might be made to manifest, that none of them were of "us." (1 John 19). If they were of "us" and left, they manifest that they were never of "us."
Pretty clear to me.
---Mark_V. on 1/26/13


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Mark V, "Depart from the Faith" means to "separate oneself from the Faith". When someone departs from a place, they LEAVE that place. They are moving themselves away from that place. When one departs from the Faith, they are moving themselves away from the Faith. You dance around even plain words where the meaning is clear and simple just to defend your false doctrine.
---Gordon on 1/25/13


Mark...appears and comes are the same. we may or may not see...but we perceive. the scripture is clear...the hs goes wherever in whatever form the hs pleases.
---aka on 1/25/13


Ruben, here is what you say,

It reads "some will depart from the faith",.

Yes Ruben, depart from the faith. Does not mean they abandon their own faith. Many are surrounded by the truth. That does not mean they had faith in the Truth. If they had they would not have left.
Those who left abandoned the faith, they did not lose their faith in Christ, they never had it.
---Mark_V. on 1/25/13


Mark_V.* Ruben,(1 Tim. 4:1,2) is talking about those who call themselves Christians , and then abondan the faith,

It reads "some will depart from the faith", nothing about some who claim to be believers but are not.

Mark_V.* they are apostates, they believe the lies of false teachers, so they walk away from the Faith, It doesn't mean they themselves had faith in Christ.

Your blind belief forces you to believe that.WOW

Mark V ( 1 Tim. 5:8) is different. These are believers, Doesn't mean they lost their faith, they deny the faith, God's commands.

Mark if you deny the faith God's commands how are you still saved?

"if we deny him, he also will deny us," 2 Timothy 2:11-12

---Ruben on 1/25/13


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Ruben, both passages you gave ( 1 Tim. 4:1,2 and 1 Tim. 5:8) do not say believers lose their faith in Christ.
(1 Tim. 4:1,2) is talking about those who call themselves Christians but or not, and attend gathering of Christians, and then abondan the faith, they are apostates, they believe the lies of false teachers, so they walk away from the Faith, It doesn't mean they themselves had faith in Christ.
( 1 Tim. 5:8) is different. These are believers, who do not provide for their own especially those of their household, fails to obey this command and is guilty of denying the principal of compassionate Christian love, they behave worse than pagans. (1 Cor. 5:1,2). Doesn't mean they lost their faith, they deny the faith, God's commands.
---Mark_V. on 1/25/13


Ruben 2: Scripture does not back you up. You want it to but it doesn't. It seems you are careless when interpreting the Word of God at the expense of your soul, so you refuse to believe by faith, that God has saved you already. If you have no faith in that, then you could not possibly be saved. You could walk away from the faith just as those passages say. Why? Because your salvation depends on your works and not in Christ. You are hoping you do enough good deeds to make it in. You have so many works included in your catechisms that if you miss one, you might windup in purgatory, waiting for someone to pay for your sin to get you to heaven.
---Mark_V. on 1/25/13


ruben, I am glad you answered the question about eternal salvation. I don't know about everyone else but I know I am secure in Christ. we can loose our joy and it takes a long time to get back to the same place as before. maybe phil and francis won't attack you the way they would have me if I had answered instead of you. God bless
---shira4368 on 1/24/13


they* Ruben please read
Ps51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation, and uphold me with thy free spirit.
he said restore the joy, not restore my salvation.

Yea I caught that:

Verse 11

"Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me."

"Restore my joy of my Salavation " if you have no joy what do you have?


they * Sin does not take away our eternal salvation. Sin takes away the joy of our eternal salvation.

Jesus tell us in MT 5:29-30

"If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away, it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell . "
---Ruben on 1/24/13


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Would a person who puts their faith in Christ walk away from Christ? Nonesense. His faith is in Christ along.

The answer to your question is yes and scriptures backs me up:

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 through the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared" 1 Timothy 4:1-2

"If any one does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his own family, he has disowned the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." 1 Timothy 5:8

BTW Mark, this scripture is something you have to do along with faith!
---Ruben on 1/24/13


Ruben, you say,

"Mark_V.* Those that walk away don't have true faith.
Your blind believes forces you to believe in that lie!"


Would a person who puts their faith in Christ walk away from Christ? Nonesense. His faith is in Christ along. The faith God gives is not found in dumpsters. What God gives is perfect. You support losing salvation because you believe in man's works for salvation. If a person fails everything goes down the dumps because of his own works. Claiming the sacrifice of Christ is not sufficient to save anyone, that it needs mans works, no faith in Christ along.
You either have faith in Christ Jesus or you don't, period.
Who are you going to trust? Man or God? It is your choice.
---Mark_V. on 1/24/13


Mark_V.* Ruben,
" Not even satan can snatch a believer out of the hands of the Lord. Very true, but a believer can walk away:"
The passage declares "No one"

But it does not include you the believer.

Mark_V.* Those that walk away don't have true faith.

Your blind believes forces you to believe in that lie!

Mark_V.* "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world and this is the victory that has overcome the world-"our faith" (1 John 5:4).

And how do you overcome ?

"And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. " 1 Jhn 2:3-4
---Ruben on 1/24/13


Mark_V.* (Jhn 6:66)"
Why did they walk away?
"They went out from us, but they were not of us,

No Mark they walk away because what Jesus said :

"For My flesh is food indeed" (Jhn 6:54-55)

"Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, This is a hard saying, who can understand it?(Jhn 6:60)

Sounds familiar Mark:)


Mark_V.* for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us"

Lets just use your verse which btw is from 1Jhn 2:18-20

They were call "even now many antichrists have come"
but on Jhn 6:66 they were call Jesus disciples.
---Ruben on 1/24/13


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Ruben,
" Not even satan can snatch a believer out of the hands of the Lord. Very true, but a believer can walk away:"
The passage declares "No one" Those that walk away don't have true faith. "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world and this is the victory that has overcome the world-"our faith" (1 John 5:4).

"From that time many of His(Jesus) disciples went back and walked with Him no more. " (Jhn 6:66)"
Why did they walk away?
"They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us"
---Mark_V. on 1/24/13


Hi Ruben, I want you to know that many times I really enjoy what you have to say! I also want you to know I believe the scriptures to teach OSAS! I also believe the once was before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4).

Ruben please read what King David said after he committed adultery and had Uriah killed.
Ps51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation, and uphold me with thy free spirit.
Did you catch it that he said restore the joy, not restore my salvation. Sin does not take away our eternal salvation. Sin takes away the joy of our eternal salvation.
---they on 1/23/13


Mark_V.* the New Testament is full of warnings.

But why the warning ?

Mark_V. * Not even satan can snatch a believer out of the hands of the Lord.

Vey true, but a believer can walk away:

"From that time many of His(Jesus) disciples went back and walked with Him no more. " (Jhn 6:66)

Can not be one of his disciple and not be save!

"for this my son was dead and is alive again, he was lost and is found." (Lk 15:24)

He was save and was unsaved and save again!OSAS I do not think so...
---Ruben on 1/23/13


Gal 5:8 "This persuasion (to come away from Paul's Gospel of Grace) cometh not of him that calleth you."

Who called them? The Holy Sprit. What spirit lead them away? The evil spirit. We have two spirits in the world.

I John 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
We have two spirits. It's either of the Holy Spirit or of the evil spirit. Don't think all Satan promotes is skid row behavior. Satan will promote anything enlightening to keep people from the truth. With Satan the end always justifies the means.
---michael_e on 1/23/13


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Aka, the wind comes, it does not appear. The passage is clear on that. If it appeared, then you would know what the wind looks like, where it came from and where it is going. You can hear it and see the results of what it does, but cannot see the wind.
---Mark_V. on 1/23/13


if we believe the bible, we know we entertain angels unawares. Hebrews 13:2. that means they take form. this verse has always intrigued me.
---shira4368 on 1/23/13


//if an angel appears, by the word "appear" it has to have a form. It cannot be invisible.// markv

the wind appears and we do not see it.
---aka on 1/22/13


Aka, the wind blow where it wants. No one can see the wind, they can only feel it. The same holds true for the Holy Spirit,

"Do not marvel that I said to you, you must be born again. "the wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes." "So is everyone who is born of the Spirit" ( John 3:7,8).

Steveng, the New Testament is full of warnings. Yet Jesus loses none of His sheep. If you are a person who falls back to perdition, you were never child of God. Not even satan can snatch a believer out of the hands of the Lord. He can torment you, accuse you, make your life miserable, but he can never devour you as you and others claim.
---Mark_V. on 1/22/13


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Mark_V.: "Demons cannot get believers off the track of God. Believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit."

The NT is full of warnings to christians about backsliding. And who do you suppose puts it into the minds of christians to backslide? And who do you suppose causes the end time falling away from the faith? And who do you suppose causes love to wax cold in the end days?
---Steveng on 1/20/13


//if an angel appears, by the word "appear" it has to have a form. It cannot be invisible.// markv

i was watching the trees yesterday. they were swaying. it appeared they were dancing on their own.

the wind blows where (and how) it wants.
---aka4889 on 1/20/13


Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Hebrews 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Sometimes you see them, sometimes you don't.
---francis on 1/20/13


Demon G1140 daimonion a demonic being, by extension a deity.

Satan is not connected with the demons in Scripture.
They are usually unclean. Satan is never presented so.

Beezeboul is the chief of the demons. (Matt.12:24)

There is no indication that demons are celestial spirits.

They wish to draw away the allegiance of mankind from God to themselves. They desire the worship of mankind.

Through mistranslation, "devils", the demons have been confused with the devil, the usual rendering for Satan, as the Slanderer.

James, in his epistle, clinches the fact that demons have not the feelings of human beings when he speaks of the wisdom which is terrestrial, soulish, demoniacal (James 3:15).
---Phil on 1/20/13


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Cluny, if an angel appears, by the word "appear" it has to have a form. It cannot be invisible. The question was, can you physically see them, not with your spiritual eyes seeing spiritual beings, but with you physical eyes stopping cars or trains. No one can physically see something invisible. I ask what do they look like? How do they know it was an angel who stopped the car?
The angel in Scripture did move the stone, It's Scripture. When people talk it's not Scripture, unless the story told is from the Word of God. With all the experiences believers and unbelievers have, none of their stories can be authenticated as Truth. Many see satan everywhere in everything. I give the glory to God that He is the cause of all things.
---Mark_V. on 1/20/13


athiest there are many things you can't prove that they don't exist. I am still praying for you but sometimes I believe you are on here to provoke certain ones just for conversation sake. I do want you to prove what you said. I don't need to prove it...I live it and I know its real. one day you will know hell is real if you keep going down the path you are on now.
---shira4368 on 1/20/13


\\But they could not be invisible. you said that God gave them the physical vision to see them, but that is not in Scripture. \\

How else were the shepherds in Luke 2 able to see and hear the angels?

\\God could have blinded the others so they could not see what few saw.\\

The effect is the same, isn't it?

And don't forget the angels who appeared by the Lord's empty tomb.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/19/13


Cluny, thanks, your correct, many passages speak about angels appearing. In the New Testament there is about 16-18 appearances. Some in dreams and some in some kind of form. But they could not be invisible. you said that God gave them the physical vision to see them, but that is not in Scripture. God could have blinded the others so they could not see what few saw. We don't know. If they appeared, they had to have some kind of form, not invisible. What Scripture say's is truth even if we do not understand it. What people say may or may not be Truth because there is no way to proof it. People have to trust someone else's experience and not God along. There is no criteria to use to proof what they say is true only their word.
---Mark_V. on 1/19/13


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Hi Mark,

I don't know much but this I know:
Psalms34:7 The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.

Eph6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

1Pet5:8 Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Sounds like a spiritual war.

Lord bless you my friend!
---trey on 1/19/13


\\"Whether it's GOD opening up the physical eyes of the humans to be able to see the angelic beings," Our physical eyes are already opened unless you are born physically blind. So give Scripture.\\

MarkV, the angels who appeared to the shepherds and sang to announce the Holy Nativity of the Incarnate Word were apparently seen ONLY by the shepherds.

The star that guided the Magi was either a vision given only to them, or (which is similar) an angel that appeared only to them.

Nobody else beheld these.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/18/13


Well, my goodness sakes a life, I know nothing of them stopping trains and trucks, I am not that nutty! However, you can certainly see the devil and his agents working. In the middle East, in America, and other places. Satan is a trouble maker, and he is a real person. He can only be in one place at one time, however, he gives orders to his demons, his agents, and People that Satan can use to bid his wishes. He can not use everyone the same, but, he talks to everybody.. Most people do not acknowledge him and those who do don't want to give him their time of day. WELL I DO! Thanks.
---pat on 1/18/13


Mark V, In Seances, demonic "familiar spirits" take on the appearance of the deceased soul that are called upon to "come up from the grave". This was the case with the Witch of Endor that king Saul paid a visit to. Although, in that instance, there's debate as to whether it was actually the Prophet Samuel that came up (I believe it WAS the real Samuel, but, by GOD's Hand only). Regardless, the demonic appearances, like at seances, are occurring, and GOD does allow it to happen, many a time. We know that nothing happens without GOD's direct Mandate or HIS Divine "Allowance", as Cluny attested. The demonic activity is rampant and real for GOD has set in motion the Spiritual and Physical Law of reaping what is sown.
---Gordon on 1/18/13


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Shira,

That's the point.

Take "invisible and undetectable" and put it in front of any noun. Add a color if you like:


Invisible and undetectable yellow Volkswagen.

There is an infinite number of things you cannot prove don't exist.
---atheist on 1/18/13


\\"Both holy angels and demons can make themselves visible." give passages they have the ability to make themselves visible if they want to.\\

Wrong.

They do so only by God's command or permission.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/18/13


Gordon, what you said is theory only, you said:

"Both holy angels and demons can make themselves visible." give passages they have the ability to make themselves visible if they want to.
"Whether it's GOD opening up the physical eyes of the humans to be able to see the angelic beings," Our physical eyes are already opened unless you are born physically blind. So give Scripture.
" or, if it's the inate, created ability of the beings themselves to make themselves visible to where humans can readily see them," By Scripture, we know many manifest themselves in human form, but how they do that is not written. The word "demon" changes all through history of Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 1/18/13


Demons cannot get believers off the track of God. Believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit.
And they don't have to get unbelievers off the track of God, they are already off the track of God from the time they are born.
---Mark_V. on 1/18/

Then why have Demons?

Who were those people that Jesus ran the demons away -belivers-non-believers?

Why would Peter say in 1 Pt 5:8-9:

"Be sober, be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking some one to devour. Resist him,firm in your faith , knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world."

Who is Peter talking to?
---Ruben on 1/18/13


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Willie C, you said to elee:

So, if demons can get people off the track of God's way and word, demons can derail trains."

Demons cannot get believers off the track of God. Believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit.
And they don't have to get unbelievers off the track of God, they are already off the track of God from the time they are born. They are spiritually dead to Christ. Can they literally stop trains? I really don't think an invisible spirit can stop a literal train. The train would go right through him. Now God can stop a train. All He has to do is speak, and the train will stop. For nothing is impossible with God.
---Mark_V. on 1/18/13


Bro. Willie 2: you say,

""It was a demon that talked to Mohammed, Joseph Smith, Ellen White and others. They left behind damnable heresies which will probably continue to the end of times. "Truth has always been mixed with error in these religions."

Your right, people listened to the enemy because Scripture tells us, they are not able to listen to Christ. Jesus says,
"Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are "not able" to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do." (John 8:43,44). They were not able to listen to Christ, just like Muhammah, Joseph Smith, Charles Russell, E.G. While, Jim Jones and more.
---Mark_V. on 1/18/13


e.lee > 1/17/2013 > says,

"It was a demon that talked to Mohammed, Joseph Smith, Ellen White and others. They left behind damnable heresies which will probably continue to the end of times.

"Truth has always been mixed with error in these religions."

So, if demons can get people off the track of God's way and word, demons can derail trains.
---willie_c: on 1/18/13


Steven G, me, obbessed with angels? Not so my friend. I see you are obbessed with the computer, do an online on that. "How many angels have you seen stop cars?" If so, maybe they were like the two prophets you saw on the road, that spoke to you without opening their mouths? Did they have to see you to speak to you with their mouths closed? Maybe you are still getting messeges from them. Or maybe they are the one's stopping cars with their minds. Maybe they are the two prophets to come. Why not do an online search for "prophets that don't open their mouths but speak"
---Mark_V. on 1/18/13


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atheist, if you have never seen one how do you know unicorns aren't real?? there are many real things in this world I have never seen.
---shira4368 on 1/18/13


Mark V, why are you so obsessed with angels stopping cars?

Scriptures says that angels are mightier and more powerful than man. They also have a mind of their own - God's angels, of course, do the will of God and Satans angels try with all their might to get people to turn their backs on God. Doesn't that satisfy you?

If noone on these blogs can give you an answer your heart desires or that doesn't conform to your worldly ideology then try searching the bible itself. Do an online KJV bible search for the words "angel", "satan", "lucifer", "devil", and "cherub".
---Steveng on 1/17/13


Let's talk about invisible pink unicorns with purple stripes. They are very colorful although they can't be seen and probably don't exist.
---atheist on 1/17/13


Mark V, It's good to see you managed to keep this thread going. Both holy angels and demons can make themselves visible. Whether it's GOD opening up the physical eyes of the humans to be able to see the angelic beings, or, if it's the inate, created ability of the beings themselves to make themselves visible to where humans can readily see them, it may differ for each given incident. Nonetheless, it happens, and it has happened many times, according to personal accounts. The spirit body is more real than the flesh-and-blood body, THUS, an "invisible" angel can stop a tangible, visible car.
---Gordon on 1/17/13


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Seems this has already been recently discussed.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/17/13


In Hebrews, it looks like the writer is saying angels are "ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation," in Hebrews 1:14. Ministering salvation is much more important than stopping trains (c:

We see how one angel strengthened Jesus while He was in the garden before being betrayed > "Then the angel appeared to Him from heaven, strengthening Him." (Luke 22:43)

So, Jesus could be strengthened by an angel. I can feel for the angel, how he loves Jesus and so appreciated being able to strengthen Jesus. God does things as family, including angels and us in love > "Let all that you do be done with love." (1 Corinthians 16:14)
---willie_c: on 1/17/13


It was a demon that talked to Mohammed, Joseph Smith, Ellen White and others. They left behind damnable heresies which will probably continue to the end of times.

Truth has always been mixed with error in these religions.
---e.lee7537 on 1/17/13


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