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History Of The Holy Spirit

Assuming the Trinity is a truth, does Scripture tell us what was the work of the Holy Spirit prior to the resurrection of Jesus?

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 ---Geraldine on 1/21/13
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'There is God the Father, Jesus the son and the Holy Spirit..3 persons in one Godhead'- Judy.

And yet Judy, neither you, Ruben, aka nor MarkV have been able to demonstrate where in scripture is your trinitarian belief 'God the Father, Son and holy spirit... 3 persons in one Godhead'. These are your words, the words of men, not the word of God.

Judy, I follow the Bible, and the words of Jesus Christ who said quoting the shema at Deut.10:12 'It is Jehovah (YHWH) your God you must worship'- Matt.4:10.

There are not 3 persons in the Godhead- thats polytheist trinitarianism. There is only one true God- Jehovah. Jesus Christ is the 'Son of God'- Jo.1:34.
---David8318 on 1/28/13


That's right David8318 you tell them, you don't have to believe anyone.
Not even Christ, just because he said I will go away and send you my spirit.
And that it is he that spirit shall lead you to all truth or that God is a spirit!

And why should you, they didn't believe God when he said I will send my Son.
So, why should they believe Son when he says I will send my Spirit?
Let Christ prove it. Don't take anything Christ said on faith.

"For all you know"
Christ maybe trying to trick you.
And all these people that follow him too!
Don't be fool.

I see the way the water doesn't touch you
But, maybe one day it will.
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/28/13


David8318: Are you really Jesus Christ' own? Has the Lord ever ministered to you personally?Hear the Lord Jesus in John 14:7,"If ye have known me, ye should have known my Father also,and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him." HE also emphasized to Philip in verse 9,"...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father,...". It a statement of fact devoid of human type of boasting.
---Adetunji on 1/28/13


'the Jews did not have the Holy Spirit living in them'- Cluny.

Neither did the sycophant Athanasius, because he never included the holy spirit in their delibrations at the Council of Nicea 325CE.

Did the pagans an Athanasius have a shortlist of who they wanted to make up the 3rd part of the trinity God-head? Apostle Peter could have been in the running, or the holy spirit.

The reason why the holy spirit wasn't included in Christendoms trinity in 325CE was because they knew the Bible never called the holy spirit 'God'. Neverthless, the apostate Athanasius drunk with his heresy bent over backwards to appease the pagan Roman Empire- the birth of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, followed by its false religious Orthodox sects.
---David8318 on 1/28/13


David, read your Bible. There are many references to the Holy Spirit. He is a person and can be grieved. There is God the Father, Jesus the son and the Holy Spirit..3 persons in one Godhead..perfect unity of thought and power. Trinity is not in the Bible but neither is the word Rapture. Trinity means 3. Dont be so picky on terms. peace
---judy on 1/28/13




\\The holy spirit wasn't 'living inside' Pagan Roman Emperor Constantine or his lap-dog Athanasius after Jesus' ascension either, who together in 325CE concluded God and the Son were of the same essence, but not the holy spirit. Why so if the trinity is clearly taught!?\\

Wrong again, as in everything you say, David.

The issue of the nature of the Holy Spirit being the same as that of the Father and son was not an issue at Nicea (not "Nice", btw). This was the issue at Constantinople 1 later, which dealt with the heresy of Pnevmatomachoi such as yourself.

Try again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/28/13


Christan- you've had all this time to show us where the Bible says 'God the Father, God the Son, God the holy ghost', and you have failed to provide one shred of scriptural evidence where its found. You are as impotent as the pagan trinity you worship.

Call me a non-Christian? Water off a ducks back. You are no more Christian than the pagans who adopted your trinity dogma, which you eagerly adhere to. Pagans such as Roman Emperor Constantine with his sycophant religionist Athanasius who schemed to secure the pagan trinity into "the church" to appeal to the pagan masses.

Crumbling Roman Empire, apostate religious leaders bent on fleecing their flocks- what a recipe for the 'Great Apostasy'- 2Thess.2:3.
---David8318 on 1/28/13


"There is no Biblical reference to 1st Century Christians worshipping a trinity. Trinity is not a Bible word just as the infamous trinitarian mantra 'God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost' is unscriptural." David8318

What you are truly confessing here is that you're most definitely NOT a Christian. Here's simply why: Jesus in Matthew 28:19 spoke these words (which is contrary to yours): "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

You see, when a Christian worship God, it definitely includes the "Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". If anyone who's unscriptural, it's you.
---christan on 1/27/13


'we know we are talking at least two... a God who could be seen... And they knew that there was god that could not be seen'- francis.

This is polytheism.

Not sure if francis is aware of the polytheist theology that he has been led into. God talking to another God, a God that can be seen and one that can't... wow.

Of course God wasn't talking to another God, He was talking to his Son, the prehuman Jesus. And the 'angel of the Lord' was not 'God', but an angel 'of the Lord'.
---David8318 on 1/28/13


francis,At the time Gen.1.26. was stated God had a hundred million angels in heaven, at least two?????Indeed! Rev.5.11
---1st_cliff on 1/27/13




Dovidacher- Christians do not believe the trinity dogma.

Pagans believed and worshipped their god's in trinity's before Constantines time... not Christians. In fact, Pagans worshipped trinity's long before Jesus came to earth.

There is no Biblical reference to 1st Century Christians worshipping a trinity. Trinity is not a Bible word just as the infamous trinitarian mantra 'God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost' is unscriptural.
---David8318 on 1/27/13


The Jews did have knowledge of a Triune God and did spell it our just as the NT writers did:

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

So here we know we are talking at least two

Psalms 51:11 take not thy holy spirit from me.

They knew of the holy spirit

Genesis 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham

The knew that the angel of the lord was also God who could be seen

Exodus 33:20 Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

And they knew that there was god that could not be seen
---francis on 1/27/13


Cluny, I may not always get everything politically correct but I don't play games except when i jest!
**But the Jews did not have have Holy Spirit living in them after the Ascension of Christ and Pentecost**
You know that I was talking about the Jews prior to Pentecost,thousands of years
not having any knowledge/insight of a triune God! Else they would have spelled it out in no uncertain terms!The Priesthood were extremely studious!
---1st_cliff on 1/27/13


David, Christians believed in the Trinity before Constentine came around.
---dovidacher on 1/27/13


'Get your facts straight'- Cluny.

Yes Cluny, get your facts straight. Your understanding of Church history is as inept as your understanding of scripture. You're out of your depth on both counts.

The holy spirit wasn't 'living inside' Pagan Roman Emperor Constantine or his lap-dog Athanasius after Jesus' ascension either, who together in 325CE concluded God and the Son were of the same essence, but not the holy spirit. Why so if the trinity is clearly taught!?

Holy spirit did not direct true Christians to adopt a pagan polytheist trinity- a false theology alien to the Jews. It is a Satanic spirit that motivated pagan Emperor Constantine and archdeacon Athanasius in 325CE to start the apostasy rolling.
---David8318 on 1/27/13


Cluny, though I agree, as a Jew, I would slightly caution you re. the statement "the Jews" rejecting Jesus, and not being filled with the Spirit. The first believers, the first to be filled with the Spirit, were Jews. We did not all reject Jesus, nor do we all reject him today. Even in Israel today, there is a Hebrew speaking community of Catholics.
---dovidacher on 1/27/13


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\\You have this special discernment to decipher from the OT text that supports your belief in a triune god,BUT 4,000 years of history and millions of Isrealites never grasped a triune god concept from special Holy Spirit insight????\\

But the Jews did not have the Holy Spirit living in them after the Ascension of Christ and Pentecost.

They also didn't grasp the Incarnation either, so they rejected their Messiah.

\\The Pope has a special communication with God as His Vice regent on earth. \\

It is not my purpose to explain Roman Catholic doctrine here, but suffice it to say you clearly misunderstand it. Either that, or you're playing straw man again.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/27/13


I may have missed if anyone posted the answer-does Scripture tell us what the...prior to..? Yes, it does-we see the Spirit active in the incarnation and ministry of Christ. We also see him at work in the creation of the world, ps 33 gives us an example of God, the Word, and the Spirit at work-in which we see the Trinity. Also in the inspiration of the prophets, and miracles. In the OT, he is mainly refered to as ruach Adonai, or ruach Elohim-Spirit of the Lord, or God.
---dovidacher on 1/27/13


Cluny, Let's stay with reality OK?
You have this special discernment to decipher from the OT text that supports your belief in a triune god,BUT 4,000 years of history and millions of Isrealites never grasped a triune god concept from special Holy Spirit insight????
The Pope has a special communication with God as His Vice regent on earth. JWs are the only ones God communicates with (channel) Evangelicals claim "special insight"
Surely Cluny you don't fit with that group! do you?
---1st_cliff on 1/27/13


Follower, The Holy Spirit is a person. For only a person has intellect, emotions, a will and talks. Jesus tells us
"When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, "He" will bear witness of Me" (John 15:26). and
"The Spirit "Himself" testifies with our spirit that we are children of God" (Rom. 8:16). That is the same Spirit that is in Christ, for the Lord said,
"My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh, nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years" (Gen. 6:3).
You reject the truth cause you are from a cult.
---Mark_V. on 1/27/13


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The Holy Spirit is not a person or entity
Calls himself a follower.

According to Christ, you will never be able to teach any of his nations nor baptize any of his people.
By your own words you only have two names.

You dont have the name of the Holy Ghost!
Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

See-ya
---TheSeg on 1/27/13


Follower of Christ-by your logic, when Jesus says God is a spirit, is he calling God an "it"? And the New Testament DOES speak of believers having a relationship with the Spirit-the Spirit speaks, has a 'will', gives gifts. These are traits of personhood, and are all relational. Furthermore, by being called ruach elohim, the Spirit of God, this implies oneness with God.
---dovidacher on 1/26/13


\\I'm guessing that your "spiritual discernment" is interpreting "Spirit of His mouth as the 3rd God,Holy Spirit"\\

But I'm not a polytheist, 1stCliff. And I never said I believed in three gods.

If you can't understand my human words, where did you get the idea you can understand God's word?

All you're doing is proving my point.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/26/13


"Easy to determine the trinity doctrine is a doctrine of demons with proof from holy scripture!!" FOC

You dispute 1 John 5:7? And Jesus never spoke of the Spirit?

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning." John 15:26,27

Seems the only "demon" that exist is the one that's in you. Or as Christ rebuked some of the Jews in John 8, "Ye do the deeds of your father. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
---christan on 1/27/13


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\\The holy spirit is not a person or entity **IT** is holy (sacred) because **IT** is Gods spirit (breathe) like the wind\\
---Follower_of_vain_philoophy on 1/26/13


By that type of thinking, the Word of God is also an *IT* that became flesh
---James_L on 1/26/13


pagan doctrine of demons called trinity introduced by catholic religion in 325AD **not** found in Holy scripture.

The Holy Spirit is mind of God, and through this power true followers of the Lord can keep his 10 laws by the strength of the Lord working in our minds.

The Holy Spirit is described as power:

Romans 15:19
Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God

Also: Romans 15:13, Acts 1:8 1 Corinthians 2:4 5:4 2 Timothy 1:7

This power is easily understood through account of the power flowing out of the Lord Christ Jesus in Mark 5:25-30 when the virtue (from Greek dunamis meaning power) had gone out of Him, also demonstrates faith by the women she would be healed by this power
---Follower_of_Christ on 1/26/13


Easy to determine the trinity doctrine is a doctrine of demons with proof from holy scripture!! There are 9 Accounts of Lord describing a relationship with the Father never once mentioning holy spirit, and never once in all of NT describing any relationship with a holy spirit: John 5:26,30 6:57 8:28 10:30,38 14:20 17:11,21

Hebrew
Word holy is qodesh meaning sacred thing
Word spirit is ruach meaning wind breath

Greek
Word holy is hagios meaning sacred
Word spirit is pneuma meaning current of air breeze breathe

These words identify a thing **IT**

The holy spirit is not a person or entity **IT** is holy (sacred) because **IT** is Gods spirit (breathe) like the wind
---Follower_of_Christ on 1/26/13


"Per holy scripture Gods holy spirit (holy ghost) is not a person, being, or god" FOC

From thy heart you have simply spoken and just committed blasphemy. And as such, Jesus told us,

"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
Matthew 12:31,32

You're a living example of Christ's declaration before our eyes.
---christan on 1/26/13


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"The difficulty being because the Bible doesn't call the holy spirit 'God'!" David 8318

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7

John testifies that the Holy Spirit is indeed God. By this verse alone, we are told that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One in God - confirming the Trinity of One God consisting of three "persons".

Anyways, believing in the Word doesn't depend on you nor I, as it is written, "...and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Acts 13:48. It depends on God as to whether He has "ordained" us to "believe".
---christan on 1/26/13


Cluny, Really, now seriously, that's your definition of "spiritual discernment"?
I'm guessing that your "spiritual discernment" is interpreting "Spirit of His mouth as the 3rd God,Holy Spirit"
Even though Deut.6.4 says He is ONE God you're saying a second or third one comes out of His mouth, right?
The Hindus believe that the Ganges river came out of Vishnu's head
Surely Cluny you can come up with something a little clearer than that! Not clouded by mysticism of so-called "spiritual discernment"
---1st_cliff on 1/26/13


Per holy scripture Gods holy spirit (holy ghost) is not a person, being, or god, it is a gift, working in minds of Believers, and power of that spirit must be renewed. It is by that power that God created all there is.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Notice how you are not antichrist if you deny the holy spirit simply because **IT** is not a god.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

The problem with assuming a trinity is rejecting holy scripture 1 Corinthians 8:6
---Follower_of_Christ on 1/26/13


'St. Athanasius was not an archdeacon but was bishop'- Cluny.

When Constantine called the Council of Nicea in 325CE, Athanasius was archdeacon, and travelled to Nicea with Bishop Alexandra. Athanasius was made Bishop of Alexandria a few years later in 328CE.

Thus, at the Council of Nicea in 325CE, Athanasius was archdeacon- which is what I accurately posted.

Cluny its you who needs to get your facts straight! Do you suppose Athanasius was always a Bishop!? Come on sort yourself out and start speaking truth! Or are you out of your depth?

The holy spirit was not called 'God' by your squabbling crowd of apostate trinitarians until 381CE. The difficulty being because the Bible doesn't call the holy spirit 'God'!
---David8318 on 1/26/13


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\I can't see that "by the word of YHWH" and "the spirit of His mouth" = triune god!Can you?\\

Yes.

Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

You could see this too, if you were saved.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/26/13


Cluny:Are you asking if that's conclusive?
I can't see that "by the word of YHWH" and "the spirit of His mouth" = triune god!Can you?
Gen19 Abraham asking "what does my Lord want?" of the three angels !One doesn't need to be a Doctor of Divinity to see that Abraham is asking God's angels what my Lord(singular) wants of him that he's no way addressing the angels as God!
They were,in fact, God's messengers!
That's about as convincing as Holy Holy Holy equaling trinity!
---1st_cliff on 1/26/13


\\Now, where is this Christian (trinity) doctrine taught in the bible?? Especially in the OT!\\

"By the Word of YHWH were the heavens made, and all their hosts by the Spirit of His mouth."

Will that do?

How about the Visitation to Abraham in Genesis 19, when he prostrated before the three angels (an icon of the Trinity) and asks, "What does my Lord [note the singular] want?"

And so it goes.

\\Homoousios is not in scripture. \\

But the doctrine it teaches IS in scripture.


But invitation hymns, altar calls, pews, and hymnals are not.

Neither is the word "Bible" itself, or people having their own personal copies.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/26/13


Geraldine, Scripture does tells us about the ministry of the Holy Spirit before Jesus resurrection. All through the Old Testament the Bible speaks of the works of the Spirit. And Second, When we speak of the Spirit coming at Pentacost we do not mean that He was absent from earth before then. We mean that He took redsidence in believers at Pentecost although He was present always before, obviously, since He is God. the trinity is found in the studies of God. The word might not be in there but the believe is real and True.
---Mark_V. on 1/26/13


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1Cliff, your a skeptic, and really do not believe half of the Bible. But let me say that the teachings of the trinity were never mentioned in Scripture because from the beginning of the history of the Bible, very little was known of Jesus or the Holy Spirit. The Father was heard all through the Old Testament, prophecies of the Lord Jesus were mentioned. He had not been born, I'm talking about the human being Jesus. During His time here we learned who He was. After His ascension, we then hear of the Holy Spirit to the end of the New Testament. There was no possible reason for anyone to even think of the trinity until Scripture closed.
But when looking back at history we find out that God responded to man in three persons. Believe it or not.
---Mark_V. on 1/26/13


Cluny, OK have it your way **Paganism offers no parallel to the Christian doctrine of the trinity as taught in the bible**
Now, where is this Christian (trinity) doctrine taught in the bible?? Especially in the OT!
Homoousios is not in scripture. Neither is the phrase "God the Father,God the Son and God the Holy Spirit!"
These are straight forward questions not meant to "bager" or demean you.
I realize you are the product of what you've been taught!
---1st_cliff on 1/25/13


\\It took pagan Roman Emperor Constantine in 325AD to side with archdeacon Athanasius at the council in Nice, Asia Minor, to agree God and Jesus 'one and the same' person. \\

This is wrong on several counts.

First off, St. Athanasius was not an archdeacon but was bishop. It was the heretic ARIUS who was a deacon.

Next, nobody ever said that "God and Jesus were one and the same person."

David, if you try to argue Church history with me, you're out of your depth. Get your facts straight, first.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/25/13


\\Cluny: **no parallel Christian doctrine of the trinity as TAUGHT in the bible**
Just where might that be?? especially the 4 thousand years of OT script!
---1st_cliff on 1/25/13\\

1st_cliff, if you're going to quote me, PLEASE quote me exactly.

Otherwise, you're playing the straw-man argument.

Here is what I actually said:

"Paganism offers no parallel to the Christian doctrine of the Trinity as taught in the Bible."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/25/13


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Cluny: **no parallel Christian doctrine of the trinity as TAUGHT in the bible**
Just where might that be?? especially the 4 thousand years of OT script!
---1st_cliff on 1/25/13


christian, I may address those in error, but I do it to encourage those not in error and possibly plant a seed for those who have ears to hear and may be on the fence as to what they believe.

Many times Christ spoke to the Pharasees who were non-elect, but he did it for our sake (the elect).

Example:
Joh8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
---trey on 1/24/13


As I recall this part of the verse is not in any manuscripts until the 1500's.
---Rod4Him on 1/23/13

man, you are OLD! :-)
---aka on 1/24/13


christan

Those were the exact words I was going the post!
"All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father, neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."

Amen
---TheSeg on 1/24/13


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\\This is why those who adopted trinity from paganism\\

Paganism offers no parallel to the Christian doctrine of the Trinity as taught in the Bible.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/24/13


Seg/Trey - it's seriously pointless to even discuss with unbelievers of who don't believe in the trinity. That's because according to Christ:

"All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father, neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."

For the both of you, Seg and Trey, the Father has brought you to Christ by His grace. As for those who are in unbelief, Peter has this to say:

"...even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed."

"God's will be done on earth as in heaven."
---christan on 1/24/13


'Trinity is a theological word acknowledging God as the... Holy Spirit'- christan.

Yet the Bible never calls the holy spirit "God". This is why those who adopted trinity from paganism struggled initially to deify the holy spirit as 'God' in the original Council of Nicea in 325CE. The holy spirit wasn't made 'God' by apostate christendom until 381CE!

Christan in his defence of trinity misapplies Jesus' words at Matt.12:32 & Luke 12:10. Notice the difference between Jesus and the holy spirit- different outcomes for those speaking against either 'the Son' or the 'holy spirit'. If they are equal, surely the punishment would likewise be equal? But they're not equal.

'The Son' and 'the holy spirit' are different.
---David8318 on 1/24/13


1st_cliff, Jesus said "No one"
Jesus said, "no man"

The only one God has resurrected is Jesus.
Who is resurrecting everyone else?

Even though Jesus told you, I am the resurrection!
You have a problem with it, as if Christ cant resurrect, without being resurrected first, or didnt exist before the beginning.

Verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Not, I was or will be!

Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:
The dead are raised up!

Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.

Where do the angels come from, cliff?
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/24/13


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Seg, Consider, Jesus said "No one has ascended into heaven but the Son of man" Where were Abraham and Isaac 'till then???
What does it mean "God of the living"? Being assured of a resurrection is the same as being alive (figuratively) same as the statement "Even though they die ,yet shall they live" (or words to that effect) or the promise to the thief etc...
Jesus being "1st born from the dead" explains that!
Context,context context!
---1st_cliff on 1/24/13


Now here we go!
1st_cliff, is Jesus Christ dead?
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

What was it you said:
Seg/Trey,You obviously don't grasp the meaning of "death" or immortality!
Death=cessation of life!
not shedding a body!or transmigration of the soul or some other pagan belief!
Immortal= cannot die!

And you do, right!
But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/24/13


//1John5:7 ..."that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

As I recall this part of the verse is not in any manuscripts until the 1500's.
---Rod4Him on 1/23/13


Seg/Trey,You obviously don't grasp the meaning of "death" or immortality!
Death=cessation of life!
not shedding a body!or transmigration of the soul or some other pagan belief!
Immortal= cannot die!
Jn.18 the word "power" also means "authority" (of course biased translators use a word that most fits their belief,whether it makes sense or not!)+ 1st Jn.5.7 has been disputed for years ,this is proof????

Believe what you wish,but Jesus ACTUALLY died!His Father resurrected Him-fact!
---1st_cliff on 1/24/13


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God is immortal and Jesus died. How do they explain that ambiguity???
1st_cliff on 1/23/13

Jesus died, most definitely. Ask anyone who was there.
As far as I understand death, he die! No man can live though that.

Still he did say:
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Cliff, can a man do that?
Lay it down and take it again?
How do they explain that, clarity?
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/23/13


I realize that many will disregard scripture in order to continue believing what they have been taught, however:

1John5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

This verse does not say there are four that bear record. In other words, the Holy Ghost is the Holy Spirit.

And by the way:
2Peter1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
---trey on 1/23/13


1st Cliff,
Explain this:
John3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jesus Christ, the immortal Son of God said that while standing on the earth and speaking of himself.

My guess is you believe that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are dead.

Mt22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
---trey on 1/23/13


"Truth is the trinity is an assumption." David8318

Even the pagan catholics have "some truth" in them as compared to you. Even they acknowledge the Trinity. "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7

"Trinity" is a theological word acknowledging God as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. FYI Jesus said, And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

Which have you blasphemed? I'll tell you - ALL THREE!
---christan on 1/23/13


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Cluny, **Fully God** and fully human?
Well the Orthodox Church has taught wrong!
God is immortal and Jesus died. How do they explain that ambiguity???
---1st_cliff on 1/23/13


Psalm 51:11 "take not thy holy Spirit from me". The "H" in the word "Holy" is not capitalized until THE JESUS DISPENSATION (AGE OF ETERNITY).
---more_excellent_way on 1/22/13

How many places have you seen the H in holy spirit capitalized?

H in Holy Ghost YES
in holy spirit NO
---francis on 1/23/13


Assuming the Trinity is a truth? Truth is the trinity is an assumption.

It took pagan Roman Emperor Constantine in 325AD to side with archdeacon Athanasius at the council in Nice, Asia Minor, to agree God and Jesus 'one and the same' person. But it wasn't until the Council of Constantinople in 381AD when the holy spirit was eventually included in the fledgling trinity assumption.

Trinitarians make out the trinity is so clear in scripture, yet its founding "fathers" didn't assume the holy spirit was part of the trinity until years after the Nicene Creed was conceived.

It's no wonder trinitarians struggle to understand the relationship between the holy spirit and the Messiah.
---David8318 on 1/23/13


Assuming the Trinity is a truth, does Scripture tell us what was the work of the Holy Spirit prior to the resurrection of Jesus?

Throughout the Bible we see God/the Spirit of God/The Anointing/The Son of God, The Messiah, Jesus Christ

doing mighty works that are beyond man's ability to do.
---jan4378 on 1/23/13


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"Did you catch that last part of verse 29? Isaac was born after the Spirit." trey

Many can't, and that's because they do not believe the saints of OT are saved in the same manner the saints of the NT and those after are saved.

Jesus says it best, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

This is how one believe and enters heaven, according to Christ. And there's no other way since the beginning of creation.
---christan on 1/23/13


Perhaps Genesis 1:2
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Perhaps Job 32:8
But it is the spirit in a person, the breath of the Almighty, that gives them understanding.
Psalm 51:11
Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.
---bike on 1/23/13


\\Did Jesus have a human mind and a God mind? Does He have a body now? Does He still have a human mind and God mind? \\

Yes to all the above.

\\Was Jesus more human than God or more God than human while physically on earth?\\

Fully God and fully Human from the time of His incarnation in the Womb of the Virgin Mary onwards, and so is in eternity.

At least, this is what the Orthodox Church has always taught.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/22/13


Geraldine, good question!

Let us look and see:
In Creation:
Gen1:2 And the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Here is a suprise for you - In the new birth, before Christ:
Gal4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Did you catch that last part of verse 29? Isaac was born after the Spirit.
---trey on 1/22/13


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...and anyway Godliness is a mystery.
---aka on 1/22/13


Psalm 51:11 "take not thy holy Spirit from me". The "H" in the word "Holy" is not capitalized until THE JESUS DISPENSATION (AGE OF ETERNITY).

The ETERNAL Holy Spirit was never "GIVEN" to those who would rather only live 'command obedience', carry out procedures/protocol, and mumble rehearsed words to the wonderful and glorious creator.

Notice the first mention of Jesus BY NAME...Matthew 1:18 "the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way....Holy Spirit".

Everything about God was always ETERNAL, but humanity was never able to experience any ETERNAL GIFT until Jehovah sent THE LAMB that ended THE AGE OF TIME (Luke 4:5, "in a moment.....").
---more_excellent_way on 1/22/13


no cluny i don't..i was stating whay i believe. please show me scpiture where it says that three were incarnate (persons) and godliness is a mystery. i can sleep at night knowing that i know there are the three and they are one.
---aka on 1/22/13


Geraldine . . . How about in Malachi 2:14-15? Here it talks about marriage, I understand, and it says,

"But did He not make them one,
.Having a remnant of the Spirit?
.And why one?
.He seeks godly offspring."
. . . . . . (in Malachi 2:15)

So, if "the Spirit" here means the Holy Spirit, this would mean the Holy Spirit made people one in marriage . . . so that they could bring up "godly offspring" for our Father.
---willie_c: on 1/22/13


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//What you're saying is that you believe in three separate deities. This is polytheism, such as Mormonoidism, but not Christianity.//

True, but to be fair minded, I doubt that if a survey was taken of "evangelical" believers that hardly any two would agree. Sure a person may say Jesus is Fully Divine and Fully Human, but what exactly does that mean? Did Jesus have a human mind and a God mind? Does He have a body now? Does He still have a human mind and God mind? Was Jesus more human than God or more God than human while physically on earth?
The "church" debated this for about 500 years trying to describe the Godhead.
A question to ponder is where is God and Jesus Christ and the Spirit in one's life?
---Rod4Him on 1/22/13


\\so, three persons in one God is more correct than three spirits in one Godliness? \\

You got it!

**cluny, are you not a mere mortal?
---aka4889 on 1/22/13**

Of course, I am. And I don't claim to have gotten everything right for God, either.

You don't actually think that YOU have, do you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/22/13


Assuming the Trinity is a truth, does Scripture tell us what was the work of the Holy Spirit prior to the resurrection of Jesus?
---Geraldine on 1/21/13

Genesis 1:2 And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

Holy Spirit, just as the Father and Son, present at creation

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by him,
---francis on 1/22/13


It was foretold/revealed in Isaiah 9:6 and chapter 53 that Jehovah the creator would send a "COUNSELOR",...this was the revealing "Word" that 'GOD IN ENTIRETY' (JESUS) would come as the LAMB OF GOD on the cross and would ALSO GIVE GOD'S SPIRIT to us (John 7:39).

When Jesus came to earth, the revealing word(s) became FLESH (Simeon, King David, etc. knew about the eternal Holy Spirit because they had contrite hearts/souls and also payed attention to Isaiah, but otherwise, worshipers were not AWARE...Acts 19:2 "No, we have never even heard...").

John HEARD OF God's eternal Holy Spirit but...John 1:33 "I myself did not know him".

There are 3 DISPENSATIONS of God, NOT 3 separate SPIRITS.
---more_excellent_way on 1/21/13


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cluny,

//What you're saying is that you believe in three separate deities.//

so, three persons in one God is more correct than three spirits in one Godliness?

for God is spirit and it's in the name of the Holy Spirit.

jesus spoke of them separately. were there not three distinct entities that made one?

i did not say they are not one...just like a man, wife, and child is one family.

Godliness is a mystery...so you have a handle on it?

call it what you want. the Lord knows my heart.
---aka on 1/22/13


//No mere mortal has ever done anything for God and gotten it 100% right.//

cluny, are you not a mere mortal?
---aka4889 on 1/22/13


Yes. That's why the Nicene Creed says about the Holy Spirit, "Who spoke through the prophets."

\\i believe in the Father, the Holy Spirit, and the Son. i believe that they are three separate spirits.\\

What you're saying is that you believe in three separate deities. This is polytheism, such as Mormonoidism, but not Christianity.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 1/21/13


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