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How To Receive Salvation

How to achieved salvation?

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 ---Lany on 1/24/13
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I dont understand the problem here.
Is everyone elect, no!
Is everyone saved, no!
Is everyone unsaved, no!
Is everyone a believer, no!
Is everyone an unbeliever, no!

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ!

But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body,
(as it hath pleased him!)
You ask, why put one on the mountain and one in the valley?

So!
That there should be no schism in the body, but that the members should have the same care one for another.

Clearly this day has to be seen to be believed.
1Co_2:9 But as it is written
Peace
---TheSeg on 1/31/13



---Mark_V. on 1/31/13


Why do you lie markv? Don't you know liars will not inherit the kingdom of God? You want us to believe God picked you out ...a liar, and as a liar have some standing before God? Are you nuts?

I most certainly had FAITH to believe, and my belief was demonstrated by my faith, in totally surrendering my life dying with Christ and being raised a New Creature.

I do have a standing before God markv, I STAND WASHED in the Blood of the Lamb, I stand IN CHRIST. I bacame His ELECT the day I was baptized into His Death and raised up a New Creature. I KNOW GOD, I KNOW Jesus, I KNOW the Holy Spirit.

You've tried to climbed over some other way. You admit you do not KNOW Jesus Christ!
---kathr4453 on 1/31/13


Ruben: You submit the verse and still falter, for you say, 'You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:20-24)'

And what did you submit from James 2:
"and by works faith was made complete "

Faith is still the finished article. Just like a Christian's joy is made complete: no word, no joy.

A Christian is saved unto good works, not by them:
2 Thess 1:11 ... every act prompted by your faith.

We are saved by faith alone:
Romans 1:17 .., a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

While behind a believer's joy is more word, a sign of faith is more good works.
---John_II on 1/31/13


Kathr 2: that is why I say there is no truth in you, your blind to the Truth. For it is God who has chosen those who will be saved. You purposely oppose Jesus words when He said,
"Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent" It's God's work not yours. (John 6:29).
Why did He say this? Because,
"No one can come to Me.." meaning, no one has the ability to come to Christ "Unless the Father who sent Me draws him, (John 6:44) only those that God draws to Himself have the ability to come to Christ. You say He is lying. That what Jesus says is not true. That anyone can come using their own free will. Now who is lying? I say you.
---Mark_V. on 1/31/13


"Then why would the author of Hebrews warns christians not to be like Esau:

"See to it that no one fail to obtain the grace of God, that no "root of bitterness" spring up and cause trouble, and by it the many become defiled, that no one be immoral or irreligious like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal." (Heb 12:12-17)"
---Ruben on 1/31/13

Well said Ruben, well said.
---Nana on 1/31/13




Question for Markv , if MERCY is that which is only given to you, then why did you have to BEG for mercy after you said you were saved? Is not mercy salvation to,you? Careful how you answer that, seeing God has mercy on his elect only.

So you think BEGGING is a manifestation of FAITH. I see it as works. How much did YOU have to beg? How Long did YOU have to beg? When did God decide YOU begged enough, or long enough?

So you begged for salvation AKA Mercy after you were saved by God's Mercy.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/13


Kathr, it matters not how much you twist what you say, but it does not change your condition before God. You can argue with us all you want, and it will not get your condition before God. Only the grace of God can save you through faith that comes from God. It is not earned by you as you suppose. You have no power over God. He has mercy on whom He has mercy.
(Believe by faith) and (believe without faith) are two different things. Even the devil believes but he has no faith in Jesus Christ. You also believe you are saved, but you admitted you never had faith when you made your commitment to Christ. You told us that already.
According to what you have said, you have the same kind of believe the devil has.
---Mark_V. on 1/31/13


So Christan, what you are saying is God has concluded ALL in unbelief, that is ALL elect in Unbelief so that He can have mercy on ALL that is, ALL the elect.

Do you know how schitzophranic that really sounds. What is the point and purpose of such a statement? We KNOW scripture says ALL have sinned...I guess your meaning is, only the ALL elect have sinned, and no one else.

That dog just don't hunt Christan.

The more you try, the worse it gets.

We don't achieve salvation, we RECEIVE the Gift of Salvation through Faith.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/13


Their hearts are blind and dark that they cannot even understand Romans 11:31 "ALL of His elect" and not ALL as in everyone He created. According to Scriptures, not ALL are His elect. "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Here lies the doctrine of an elect and a reprobate. Believe it or not.
---christan on 1/31/13

Then why would the author of Hebrews warns christians not to be like Esau:

"See to it that no one fail to obtain the grace of God, that no "root of bitterness" spring up and cause trouble, and by it the many become defiled, that no one be immoral or irreligious like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal." (Heb 12:12-17)
---Ruben on 1/31/13


Such is the blindness of those who cannot see nor belief in election even when it's shown to them in Scriptures. They just hate the idea that God has chosen some to salvation and rejected the rest He's created for the purpose of His glory and praise.

Their hearts are blind and dark that they cannot even understand Romans 11:31 "that he might have mercy upon ALL" merely and simply implies "ALL of His elect" and not ALL as in everyone He created. According to Scriptures, not ALL are His elect. "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Here lies the doctrine of an elect and a reprobate. Believe it or not.
---christan on 1/31/13




Christan, you can no more prove( symbolically or spirityally that is) you are "a Jacob" or Jacob or a descendent of Jacob than the man in the moon. Jacob needed no faith to be Jacob, or to be God's elect.

You talk about CALLED. Reread Galatians...and other places...IN ISAAC will thy seed "be called"...the seed is Christ.

I believe you are the one spiritually blind here.

If salvation is by personal election only, there was no need for Jesus to die for sin, or even the need to preach the Gospel.

The Gift of Righteousness/Grace came by Jesus Christ....yet you say the Gift of faith came by the Father to believe in Jesus....can't you see the contradiction here?
---kathr4453 on 1/31/13


So get over it. If you claim to be the descendent of that other nations ..ESAU, you are HATED BY GOD!
---kathr4453 on 1/31/13
Just wantd you to see how silly that is.

You claim all descendents of Esau are hated by God? Can you prove that? No such thing as a born again Arab? Of coarse there is.

Or are you saying that any woman who is carrying twins, God will love one and hate the other?

If you were a twin, and there was a law that only one can inherit the family business, and you had to choose ONE out of the two, do you really mean to say teh one who you did not choose you actually HATED?

Jesus said we are to hate our mothers and fathers. Did He mean to literally HATE to the point of punishment? NO.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/13


CHRISTAN, Jacob and Esau were two people, people who do not symbolically represent the whole of mankind. They represented two nations out of MANY NATIONS. Jacob was renamed Israel and represented the Jews, as GOD's Cholen People on earth who were given the LAW and for the purpose of bringing in the Messiah.

Esau does not represent the Chinese, or those in Africa, or even the american Indian.

So get over it. If you claim to be the descendent of that other nations ..ESAU, you are HATED BY GOD!
---kathr4453 on 1/31/13


According to Paul, election is of God and not a mention the sinner gets to choose to be God's elect or not. How all these weird theology manifest itself even when we have the Holy Scriptures in black/white, is living proof that there's such a thing as spiritual blindness.
---christan on 1/31/13

Christan,

Are you one of the elect God chose? Y or N

If yes then please tell me how did God chose you as a elect?

Thanks
---Ruben on 1/31/13


Agree with Kathr here.

The ones He has concluded in unbelief are the Israelites who are blind to the gospel. It served a purpose. It brought salvation to the gentiles.

They were blinded so that salvation could come to all men.
---JackB on 1/31/13


Try reconciling what you've said to what Paul revealed, "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief",

Who's "THEM" here christan?

Was David in unbelief? Abraham? Isaac? Samuel? All Israel? ALL the world? Only a certain group of THEM.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/13


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Try reconciling what you've said to what Paul revealed, "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief", christan///

TRY finishing the verse christan. Talk about distorting and twish=ting the Word of God!

God hath concluded them ALL (that is both Jew and Gentile) in unbelief, SO THAT he may have MERCY ON ALL.

So you want to say "ALL" here has two different definitions that YOU have authority to change according to YOUR doctrine?
---kathr4453 on 1/31/13


"(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,)" Romans 9:11

How does a sinner get to choose to be God's elect or not when Scripture explicitly declares it's God who chooses? The above Scripture explicitly confirms that God's choice was completely unconditional.

According to Paul, election is of God and not a mention the sinner gets to choose to be God's elect or not. How all these weird theology manifest itself even when we have the Holy Scriptures in black/white, is living proof that there's such a thing as spiritual blindness.
---christan on 1/31/13


Israel, the whole, by birthright, through the descendants of Jacob, were God's chosen elect people on earth. They didn't choose to be born Jews. Even with that said, not all of God's chosen people were automatically born good or righteous. Many still died in their sin. And many had faith, believing God, obeying God from the heart. Even they had a free will to chose life or death, whether they were Gods elect or not.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/13


"If someone disobey than he had a choice to make on his own (Free-will)" Ruben

Try reconciling what you've said to what Paul revealed, "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief", and Isaiah declaring: "the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass, I have purposed it, I will also do it."

"Free-will" all you want but I know and believe that it was God's purpose and will that Adam will disobey. Scriptures confirm Scriptures, and Peter even confirmed, "even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed."
---christan on 1/30/13


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"Not just by faith, the other missing 'ingredient' - Ruben"

What Abraham did when he brought Isaac to be sacrifice was merely the result of the faith that was given to him by God, which acted out in obedience. If you care to read Scripture properly, you'll notice Paul just stop at Ephesians 2:8,9. There's verse 10,

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Get it? "which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Simply, Abraham obedience was "ordained". He didn't do it out of his "free-will", if that's what you're implying. Nice try.
---christan on 1/30/13


Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, ---.
Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one, much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

What do the previous verses say the GIFT IS??? The Gift of Righteousness by Jesus Christ, the Gift of GRACE by Jesus Christ are one in the same....
---kathr4453 on 1/30/13


The missing "ingredient" is that precious free gift from God called "faith". So that's how Abraham was made righteous, on the account of "Justification by Faith".
---christan on 1/30/13

Not just by faith, the other missing 'ingredient'

"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar. You see that faith was active along with his works, and by works faith was made complete

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" ( James 2:20-24)
---Ruben on 1/30/13


sorry christan, but scripture does not state God gave Abraham a free gift of faith to believe.

The FREE GIFT in Ephiesian is Jesus Christ Himself...and being saved by Grace. Read Romans 5 and you will see clearly, (if you care to), that what I am saying is backed up by scripture.

The GIFT OF GRACE....you will find no scripture stating the Gift of Faith to BELIEVE unto salvation.

Because you do not believe in Justification, that is, God Justifying the UNGODLY/DEPRAVED before one is Born Again, or indwelt with the Holy Spirit, you miss the mark completely.
---kathr4453 on 1/30/13


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christan * Ruben, ask yourself this question: what did Adam do to sin against God? Your answer has to be, he disobeyed God.

If someone disobey than he had a choice to make on his own (Free-will)

christan * Disobedience is the direct consequence of unbelief in the word of God. Meaning, Adam and Eve did not belief God's warning but rather believed in the serpent, which at this point "faith" was not present in them. If there's no "faith", is it a wonder they disobeyed God? Of course not.

Your blind believes forces to say they had no faith. No christian they had free-will to choice!

christan *Can you see it was God's will that Adam disobeyed?

Give me the verse that says so.
---Ruben on 1/30/13


"They have to have faith that saves. Even the devil believes." MarkV

You are right! The one missing "ingredient" people tend to forget when they quote Scriptures like "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.", they never stopped to think, how did it happened? Was it simply by just "believing"? Really? Does the Scripture stop at there? No!

Rightly you quoted Ephesians 2:8, and there's your answer. The missing "ingredient" is that precious free gift from God called "faith". So that's how Abraham was made righteous, on the account of "Justification by Faith".
---christan on 1/30/13


Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Galatians 3:6
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God,, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


here ya go markv, three scriptures all witnessing to one another....

You say faith and belief are two different things? Not according to scripture.

This is called the "faith of Abraham".

Faith comes by HEARING GOD'S WORD, and then believing God or Not....
---kathr4453 on 1/30/13


Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
John 20:27
---: and be not faithless, but believing.
Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness
2 Corinthians 4:13
We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken, we also believe, and therefore speak,
---kathr4453 on 1/30/13


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Ruben, ask yourself this question: what did Adam do to sin against God? Your answer has to be, he disobeyed God hence rightfully God cursed him and all his posterity to come. God kept to His word in Genesis 2:17.

Disobedience is the direct consequence of unbelief in the word of God. Meaning, Adam and Eve did not belief God's warning but rather believed in the serpent, which at this point "faith" was not present in them. If there's no "faith", is it a wonder they disobeyed God? Of course not.

Which is why Peter wrote 1 Peter 2:8, "even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed." Can you see it was God's will that Adam disobeyed?
---christan on 1/30/13


Kathr, it's you who doesn't understand. Faith to believe in Christ Jesus comes from God. Only believers have saving faith. But we are not ask to believe, It says, "if you believe" many believe the Truth and are not saved. They have to have faith that saves. Even the devil believes.

"For by grace you were saved through faith, "and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God," not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Eph. 2:9). It is a gift of God, His works not your own works.
"Jesus answered and said to them,
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent" (John 6:29).

So you lie and in lying compromise the Truth just to continue arguing.
---Mark_V. on 1/30/13


All you have to do is believe and confess that Jesus is your Savior. You are not saved by works - by all the good deeds you do. If that were the case we wouldn't have needed a Savior. You are saved because of your faith in His great sacrifice. Jesus didn't come here just for our eternal salvation, but for our comprehensive salvation while we are on this earth. When we make Him not only our Savior, but our Lord, we can be delivered from many afflictions. All we have to do is believe, receive, and act. Faith without works (action) is dead. Be a verbal partner with God, speak His word, declare and decree and see how your world will change! Rhonda Landry, Glory Gate Publishing and Ministries
---Rhonda_Landry on 1/30/13


Markv, faith is something every man has the ability to demonstrate. We see scripture after scripture from genesis to revelation demonstrating faith in some form or fashion. Jesus blessed many for their faith while on earth. If you buy a new car, or even used, you are believing what you are being told about that car. You either buy it or you don't. When you go to the dr. You are putting your faith in his knowledge, education ect.

Faith is demonstrated day in and day out, by believers and non believers.

Faith in God, is faith in His WORD, ...putting your faith in another.
---kathr4453 on 1/29/13


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What is so awesome about the gospel of grace is that God only asks of us ONE thing...to believe.

He didn't say, keep the law perfectly, or this or that, He said, believe in my Son, who died for your sin. Sin you cannot work your way out of, cover up, make up for, but just Believe. God calls this His foolishness...

Wise men will never understand it. Gnostics will never understand it, Calvinists will never understand it, legalists will never understand it, why, because God made it so simple....to believe in someone else rather than to believe in yourself.

Humility is the secret here, opposite from PRIDE.

It pride that keeps one from salvation. It's pride that caused satan to fall.
---kathr4453 on 1/29/13


Kathr, you say,

"Definition-Mine includes the conscience/ heart/mind, and you say we have none?? NONSENSE!"
Everyone has a will. But the will is never free.
Then you say,
"faith is a gift given to everyone ( a measure of faith) that is up to us to act upon to either believe or not believe. WHAT we believe or not believe is GOD HIS WORD!!"
In (Rom. 12:3) Paul was addressing the brethren (v.1)
"...to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith." Which is the correct proportion of the spiritual gift of faith the Holy Spirit gives each believer ( 1 Peter 4:10,11).
---Mark_V. on 1/29/13


Kathr, -- You say,
"Adam was given a "choice" Adam did have a choice, he chose to sin. Then say:

HELLO?????

"Others have their own definition of free will, and we simply do not know what that definition is."
There is one definition, (a will that is free).

WHAT IS your definition of A WILL? Mine includes the conscience/ heart/mind...and you say we have none?? NONSENSE!

"FAITH is a Choice," Faith is not a choice, it has to be given to the individual. ------Mark_V. on 1/29/13


faith is a gift given to everyone ( a measure of faith) that is up to us to act upon to either believe or not believe. WHAT we believe or not believe is GOD HIS WORD!!
---kathr4453 on 1/29/13


Kathr, your talk is cheap. You say,
"Adam was given a "choice" Adam did have a choice, he chose to sin. Then say:

"Others have their own definition of free will, and we simply do not know what that definition is."
There is one definition, (a will that is free). Then you say:

"FAITH is a Choice," Faith is not a choice, it has to be given to the individual. Unbelievers have no faith. The reason they are called unbelievers. Faith comes from hearing, and hear this if you can,
"hearing by the word of God" Jesus is the author of our faith. We are not saved by faith, but by grace through faith.
---Mark_V. on 1/29/13


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christan Peter declared, "even to them which stumble at the word, BEING DISOBEDIENT: WHEREUNTO ALSO THEY WERE APPOINTED."

Peter also declared:

"As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance" 1 Peter 1:14-17


christan* As for believers, Paul says, "...as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Acts 13:48 - meaning to believe, you must first be ordained by God!

Paul also told those ordained:

"I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock, and from among your own selves will arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them." Acts 20:28-30
---Ruben on 1/29/13


You keep talking and cannot even show an explicit verse from the Bible to support what you declare above. Talk is cheap.
///

So christan, where is your verse stating Adam was a robot...

Talk about cheap talk!

Adam was given a "choice" to obey or disobey. Now many use the word CHOICE in place of free will.

Others have their own definition of free will, and we simply do not know what that definition is.

To chose life or death is given to man to choose one or the other.

FAITH is a Choice, a choice we make...called the "OBEDIENCE OF FAITH" to ALL Nations . it doesn't say to all the elect. Romans 16:25-27.
---kathr4453 on 1/29/13


Adam will have to disobey and that's because he was "appointed" to do so.
---christan on 1/29/13

Lets see what his word said to Adam:

"And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:" (Gen 2:16)

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:" V 17

Now the next verse does not say , "But I know you are going to eat it because you were 'appointed' to do so'

But notice what God really said:

"And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?" (Gen 3:11)
---Ruben on 1/29/13


Genesis 25:22-24

And the children struggled together within her, and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the Lord.

23 And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels, and the one people shall be stronger than the other people, and the elder shall serve the younger.


Exactly where does this verse say anything about individual salvation? Where do we see the lost "SERVING" the saved?

If salvation vs damnation is based on two "manner of People", then is salvation inherited through birthright, or physical descendents. Is one manner of people born righteous? NO NO a thousand times NO!
---kathr4453 on 1/29/13


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"Adam was given a free-will to obey or disobey. He chose the latter!" Ruben

You keep talking and cannot even show an explicit verse from the Bible to support what you declare above. Talk is cheap.

Your blindness to the Word in 1 Peter 2:8 even when shown before your very eyes is truly astounding, proving how true God's words are. You see, according to Peter, those who act out in disbelief of God's words and commands (like Adam and now you) "WERE APPOINTED". Meaning, Adam will have to disobey and that's because he was "appointed" to do so.

You don't like this truth? Take it out with God if you dare. As for me, He has said so in His Word and that's good enough for me.
---christan on 1/29/13


christan* Ruben, your answer to John 6:44 with 45 is half right if you don't include verse 37,"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

Ok, it does not say what you want it to say does it: If it did you would have a case:)

"All that the Father has predestined, without the free will of man, to come to Jesus, will come to Jesus,"

christan * As for you quoting John 5:40 & 2 Timothy 2:12-13 to justify it's the man's choice to deny and reject Christ is erroneous to say the least.

Really, which part did you not get?

"refuse to come to me", If you deny him, He will deny us"
---Ruben on 1/29/13


The very first man He created in Adam, was sinless but disobeyed the first command given by God (Genesis 2:17). And we are all born after Adam inheriting his fallen nature (born under sin). Now, how on earth can you even come to believe that in that fallen state you can do what Adam, in his sinless state couldn't? Basically, you have been deceived into believing a lie.
---christan on 1/29/13

Christian,

Adam was given a free-will to obey or disobey. He chose the latter!
---Ruben on 1/29/13


Ruben, your answer to John 6:44 with 45 is half right if you don't include verse 37,"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

As for you quoting John 5:40 & 2 Timothy 2:12-13 to justify it's the man's choice to deny and reject Christ is erroneous to say the least. That's because Peter declared, "even to them which stumble at the word, BEING DISOBEDIENT: WHEREUNTO ALSO THEY WERE APPOINTED."

As for believers, Paul says, "...as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Acts 13:48 - meaning to believe, you must first be ordained by God!

So much for "free-will", which doesn't even exist.
---christan on 1/29/13


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"Then why would Jesus tell him to " To sell everything and Come follow me" Mt 19:21" Ruben

You have failed to understand that whatever God or Christ commanded, His law is spiritual (Romans 7:14) and we're carnal. Didn't you learn anything from Genesis 2 & 3?

The very first man He created in Adam, was sinless but disobeyed the first command given by God (Genesis 2:17). And we are all born after Adam inheriting his fallen nature (born under sin). Now, how on earth can you even come to believe that in that fallen state you can do what Adam, in his sinless state couldn't? Basically, you have been deceived into believing a lie.
---christan on 1/29/13


Shira, If you are sincere and want the Truth, I will write this passage down and break it down for you, this are Jesus words, when He heard the people saying, "How is it then that He say, I have come from heaven?" This people did not recognize who He was so they were murmuring among themselves.
"Jesus therefore answered and said to them, "do not murmur among yourselves."
Here are His words broken down,
"No one can come to Me.." No one can. Can means ability. They have no ability to come to Christ. What has to happen?
"unless the Father who sent Me draws him"
They have no ability unless God gives them the ability by drawing them to Himself.
---Mark_V. on 1/29/13


Salvation is a free gift believed and received.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1Cor 15:3-4 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,...
You can go by Paul's gospel,
or you can go to Jesus' ministry to Israel(Rom 15:8)
and try to make their scripture work for you
---michael_e on 1/28/13


christan * Your explanation of the rich man prior to what Christ declared it's impossible for man in salvation is erroneous. It never said anywhere that the rich man chose not to follow Christ.

Then why would Jesus tell him to " To sell everything and Come follow me" Mt 19:21

"And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions." Mt 19:22

Why was he sad? Because he was not one of the chosen, Or he did not want to sell what he had to follow Jesus!

If Peter said to him "Behold we have left all things, and have followed thee: what therefore shall we have?" V 27

Jesus told what he will get for doing just that.
---Ruben on 1/28/13


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christan * No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him... Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:44,65

And who are they:

"Every one that hath heard of the Father, and hath learned, cometh to me." V 45


christan * Your believe the "man has a part" is truly erroneous as declared by Christ.


"And you will not come to me that you may have life" (Jhn 5:40)

"if we deny him he will deny us" ( 2 Timothy 2:12-13)
---Ruben on 1/28/13


There is no proof that Esau was sent to hell. Esau was not chosen to be the father of Israel, that is all. We know many gentiles not even associated with Jacob, re: JOB for instance is not and has nothing to do with Jacob. Job lived before Jacob or Esau, probably around the time of Abraham or before, and was a GENTILE.

To mandate a I love I hate salvation, it would have to begin in Genesis 1...with Cain and Able, not with Jacob and Esau. no other statement has ever been made before or after Jacob and Esau, having NOTHING to do with Salvation.
God did not say to Rebekah, " In your belly are two people, one for salvation and one for damnation!

Get it right christan.
---kathr4453 on 1/28/13


How to achieve salvation?

1. be a sinner. (Romans 5:8)
2. hear the gospel. (Romans 1:16)
3. believe. (John 1:12)
4. make confession. (Romans 10:9-10)
_____________________
= salvation achieved. (Romans 10:12-13)
---jan4378 on 1/28/13


"why do you think Christ died for "some special" people? you are way out of context on this one." shira

I am? Then maybe the apostle Paul was way out of context too, since he taught us about election in Romans 9 - "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Doesn't this verse prove your understanding is erroneous and unscriptural? That God only chose to love Jacob and not Esau, resulting in salvation for one and not the other?

I know your god wouldn't do such a thing and that's because he's just a god of your own imagination and because the God of the Bible says otherwise to your god. And Scriptures proves it. Don't take my word for it.
---christan on 1/28/13


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"do you honestly think you are one of the elect while maybe your neighbor is not?" shira

Did I claimed anywhere in my blogs even claimed that I'm an elect?

"why would missionaries be called to the field? why do we evangalize?"

Christ said so in His great commission to His disciples. Do you know who's going to be saved? That's His will as Paul declared - "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." It's the duty of the Christian to witness and testify, just like it was Moses duty to tell Pharaoh to let God's people go, even though God told Moses He was going to hardened his heart. Was Moses attitude like yours? Thank God, it wasn't!
---christan on 1/28/13


christian, why do you think Christ died for "some special" people? you are way out of context on this one. I've said it before and I shall say it again, why would missionaries be called to the field? why do we evangalize? do you honestly think you are one of the elect while maybe your neighbor is not? wow, my God would never do that. He sent His son to save anyone who will believe in his heart that he is saved. the verses you wrote in your blog are to the saved. it isn't to the lost but Jesus went about doing His Fathers business trying to get people to believe. they actually saw Jesus and wouldn't repent. that is hard for me to imagine.
---shira4368 on 1/28/13


markv, what am I confused about? please tell me then I will tell you why I am not confused. Jesus Christ died for every single person. Jesus told one crowd they needed a preacher. now, you don't see street preachers anymore but the only way they can hear a preacher is church and you can do anything and they refuse to go. they do have a choice but satan has them blinded to the truth. the unsaved does not understand spiritual things. now, tell me where am I confused?
---shira4368 on 1/28/13


shira: first of all, it's NOT "certain "elect" people" BUT the elect.

And these are the elect as defined by Christ: "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me, and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. To him the porter openeth, and the sheep hear His voice: and He calleth His own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."
John 6:37, 10:3,27,28

Doesn't sound like Christ died for all mankind according to Scripture above, does it? You've been deceived by the master deceiver?
---christan on 1/27/13


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Sis. Shira, you are confused. Do you not realize that if Jesus death, His blood, covered the sins of every individual, none owe anything to God? The Bible tells us,
"He who believes in Him is not condemnedl but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:18).
And if they owe nothing to God why are so many going to hell if their debt was paid already?
Jesus sacrifice is sufficient to save everyone, if everyone believed through faith in Christ. But not everyone does. If we took your theory, we would have Universal salvation and we don't, Jesus said there is a Hell and many will be going through the wide gate.
---Mark_V. on 1/28/13


christian, I am not confused. all mankind are the elect if they get saved. you are confused if you think Jesus died on a cross for certain "elect" people. no one can explain how to achieve salvation. not even you. now what part am I confused about?
---shira4368 on 1/27/13


shira, what a sad and pathetic god you worship. Here's why, you say your god "don't pick out a few to be saved, He died for all...every single person."

And prior to that you contradict yourself saying, "all who are saved are the elect." See how confused you are? You can't escape the word elect is because it's written in the Bible. But you then twist and turn the definition of it even after Paul explicitly explained it in Romans 9:11.

And if your god died for everyone, shouldn't everyone be saved? Isn't God in the Bible Almighty and nothing impossible for Him to do? And yet your god lost multitudes to hell even after saying he died for everyone. See how pathetic your god is?
---christan on 1/27/13


Christian, God knew all mankind from the foundation of the world. all who are saved are the elect. God don't pick out a few to be saved, He died for all...every single person. if you want to talk about elect, then you talk about every saved person. all men has a chance to believe in God, even in 3rd world countries. the firmament speaks of God.
---shira4368 on 1/26/13


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christen, so I remind you of who?? maybe you should get the boulder out of thine own eye. you know nothing about me to judge me, yet you are playing God. yes, I get glory out of a soul saved. what I said is if God elects a few for salvation, it would do no good to witness but because I believe Christ died for the whole world just as John 3:16 says I try to be a lighthouse in a dark world.
---shira4368 on 1/26/13


Why did Jesus say, "no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."?
He explained (John 6:61_71). In v.65 he states, "Therefore said I unto you...", to the twelve which remained and the other disciples of whom some departed thereof, that it was because he knew who believed and who would betray him. Simon Peter said, 'oh no we are not leaving'!, as it were To which Jesus repplied, "Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?" Which proves his saying, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."
---Nana on 1/26/13


"if you believe you are chosen personally from the foundation of the world, it would not do much good to witness to the lost and dying world." shira4368

Firstly, that's what Scriptures explicitly declared - that God has chosen before the foundations of the world (Ephesians 1:4-6). Hard as you try, you can't change that.

As for witnessing - do you then know who God has chosen? Nobody knows but God, not even the elect. It becomes the duty of a Christian to witness the Truth, regardless of who God has chosen! Your attitude is similar to the wicked servant in Matthew 25:14-30 of the parable of the servants and talents.

Do you say what you say because you find no glory for yourself in the salvation of the sinner?
---christan on 1/26/13


"Yes it starts with God but man has a part" Ruben

"man has a part to play"? How? Your explanation of the rich man prior to what Christ declared it's impossible for man in salvation is erroneous. It never said anywhere that the rich man chose not to follow Christ. The short of it all is the rich man was never chosen by God to go with His Son as commanded. ie, grace never came to him. And why?

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him... Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." John 6:44,65

Your believe the "man has a part" is truly erroneous as declared by Christ.
---christan on 1/26/13


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One of the worst effects of the modern secular church is that all of the insidious lies (a lie within a lie within a lie, etc.) teach the worshiper not to think properly.

Everyone who has responded to an "acheive salvation" issue (impossible to do,....ridiculous for you to think otherwise) would rather 'get on my case' (be critical) for claiming "ACHEIVE SALVATION" because their aim is NOT to think properly, but to BE CRITICAL and oppose what is being said/written instead of "GET UNDERSTANDING", otherwise, it would not have been very difficult for you to realize that a "GOAL" is to be acheived,.....SALVATION cannot be ACHEIVED, boys and girls!....use your head!...try and IMPRESS Jesus.
---more_excellent_way on 1/25/13


Jesus on the cross achieved all we need so we can be reconciled with God, and have forgiveness of our sins.

So . . . trust Jesus to save us.

And depend on God to do what we need. Read your Bible and trust God to have you do what He means by what He says.
---willie_c: on 1/25/13


It was said that the Lord chose everyone. Let us see what the scriptures teach. Remember Romans chapter 9 and Paul's discourse concerning Jacob and Esau. Paul is showing a picture of election. God chose Jacob, but not Esau. He is simply explaining Malachi chapter 1.

Mal1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,
Mal1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Question: Is God unjust in chosing one and not another.
Answer: Romans 9:14
---trey on 1/25/13


HE is the way, the truth and the LIFE. HIS name is Salvation. HE is salvation.
God gave us Jesus Christ. Trust in HIM and you will receive HIS Life. Salvation is a gift, not something we have earned. HE died and rose for all men.
---duane on 1/25/13


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This person is obviously a foreign speaker. Pound on your pulpits lightly.
---aka on 1/25/13


" Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

This simply means, salvation for man is IMPOSSIBLE to "achieve"! It does not start with the man one iota. It starts with God.-Christan

Yes it starts with God but man has a part:

Jesus told the rich man to sell all that he has, give to the poor and he will have many treasures in Heaven and to follow Jesus. The Rich man walk away he refuse to listen to what Jesus told him to do.( MT 19:22-25)
---Ruben on 1/25/13


"It does not start with the man one iota. It starts with God."
---christan on 1/24/13

Here is proof of that - God's promise through the hand of his messenger Peter:

Acts 2:38_41
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."
---Nana on 1/25/13


Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God
---francis on 1/25/13


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Man does not "achieved salvation". Man receives salvation and "as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe on His name, [and] this is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He sent. As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Man is "justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus. Jhn 1:12>Col 2:6>Jhn 6:29> Eph 2:,8,9>Rom 3:24
---Josef on 1/25/13


christian, if you believe you are chosen personally from the foundation of the world, it would not do much good to witness to the lost and dying world. EVERYONE is chosen but only a few accept. God made a way for everyone to be saved. I don't understand how anyone can say they were chosen...all humanity was chosen.
---shira4368 on 1/25/13


Can one "achieve salvation"? Scripture has an answer to this age old question:

"When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

This simply means, salvation for man is IMPOSSIBLE to "achieve"! It does not start with the man one iota. It starts with God. That is, unless you "have been chosen before the foundations of the world", you're not going to receive salvation, period.

"So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."
---christan on 1/24/13


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