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Is Theistic Evolution Valid

Is Theistic Evolution a valid concept for Christians? Did God employ long-age darwinian Evolution in the creation of earth's animals and mankind?

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 ---jerry6593 on 1/26/13
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you cannot debate evolution, unless you have a firm understanding of BOTH bible and science

Bible says God cursed the ground to bring thorns and thistles

Science says that thorns and thistles are a product of lack of water and for defence

Bible says that the curse was lifted after the rain in Noahs days

Science shows that a long period without rain will indeed lead plants to make thorns to conserve water

The bible does not say that the earth revolves around the sun, science does

Sometimes science explains creation. Science does not explain Jehovah
---francis on 2/12/13

Francis, I will leave it there. I have done my best to show what this Scripture means. However you cannot, or will not underestand. No need to reply.
---Warwick on 2/11/13

They observe the results of thousands of years of the curse and you imagine these processes are not the result of the curse, but its cause.
---Warwick on 2/10/13

Yes we both agree that God cursed the ground. And we both agree that the earth brought thorns, thistles, and spines.

So I do not disagree that these are the results of the church

What I am saying is this did not come about the same day, they came about as a lack of water / rain.
And when the rain came in the flood, the curse was lifted

I am also saying that even today we can make some plants grow leaves or spines if we choose. It takes time
---francis on 2/11/13

Francis, we need to remember that the processes happening today are no clue as to the processes which occurred in the past. In the pre-curse world man was immortal, having face to face relationship with God. There was no death, disease or sin. Adam and Eve lived in paradise without the struggle for survival which has been the rule since God instituted the curse.

The evolutionary scientists you hold in high esteem were not there in the beginning, and propose methods of origins which contradict God's word. They observe the results of thousands of years of the curse and you imagine these processes are not the result of the curse, but its cause.
---Warwick on 2/10/13

---Warwick on 2/10/13
Yes we both agree that God cursed the ground. And we both agree that the earth brought thorns, thistles, and spines.

You say it may have happened instantaneously

I say that it happened over time. Plants bring thorns and spines it what science has noted when plants are deprived of water

The church of the ground was lifted when God caused it to rain after the flood

we know that farming is almost impossible without water

We know that Eden had a four headed river, and that from Adam to Noah it had not rained

In all likelihood, God simple withheld the mist that water the ground, the ground became dehydrated, and thorns grew

The science supports this.
---francis on 2/10/13

Francis, if you wish to place your faith in the changing opinions of falible sinful man who was not there go ahead. I am determined to place my faith in the word of God who was there, makes no mistakes, and does not lie.

You must know the events of Genesis 3 are not open to the scrutiny of science. We cannot go back and observe what happened so nonBiblical ideas of what occured then are idle speculation. But God was there and He says the changes were instituted then because of Adam's sin. Surely you do not imagine the changes to the ground were effected over a long time-span by natural causes? God says "cursed IS the ground because of you." What is the truth, God's word or man's opinions? Yes Francis this is a question!
---Warwick on 2/10/13

---Warwick on 2/9/13
The fact the plants produce spines and thorns to conserve water and as a defense is not a secret. It is not hidden, mystery knowledge. It is in every college level biology text book. I should not have to produce a deference for common knowledge.

---jerry6593 on 2/9/13
MONDAY February 11

A Fallen World
One thing is certain: the world in which we now live is vastly different from the one that came forth from the Lord at the end of the Creation week. Certainly, powerful evidence of beauty and design exist almost everywhere, however, we are sin-damaged beings living in and trying to understand a sin-damaged world. Even before the Flood, the world had been negatively impacted by sin.
---francis on 2/9/13

Francis, you give no support for your idea, either Biblical or from a scientific viewpoint but talk about descent by modification. I do not believe such a term is used by scientists today.

When you read God's pronounciation of the curse it talks of things happening by His command occurring immediately as all these things are His immediate curse upon man, and the whole of creation, because of Adam's sin. "Cursed is the ground because of you." How would anyone imagine that this curse occurred by natural causes, over time?
---Warwick on 2/9/13

francis: I didn't see the words "descent with modification" in the Sabbath School quote you gave. How many times must I explain to you that you are describing mendellian genetics - not Evolution. God placed great capacity for variation within the genome of each basic "kind" ("species" is an artifical and meaningless division of "kinds"). That is why there are so many dog "breeds" and why your children look different from your neighbor's. But that is not to be confused with Evolution, wherein a modification to the genome is postulated to occur with the result of some novel improvement to the "kind" such as feathers or thorns.

---jerry6593 on 2/9/13

---jerry6593 on 2/8/13

Creation of Air and Water Animals
There was no single ancestor from which all other species descended, but each species seems to have been endowed with the possibility of producing varieties of individuals. For example, more than 400 named breeds have been developed from the common pigeon, and at least 27 breeds of goldfish are known. God apparently gave each of His creatures the potential to produce a great variety of various offspring, further adding to the diversity of the creation.

---Warwick on 2/8/13
IF I understand you correctly, you are saying that spines and thorns came up immediately, not later with time.

You have any biblical proof?
---francis on 2/8/13

francis: "descent with modification?"

That's not from the Bible! That's straight from darwinian Evolution, and it is an unprovable lie. God did not create slowly, using time and chance,

For he spake, and it was done, he commanded, and it stood fast. (Psa 33:9)

God's curse, as a result of man's sin, was just as swift as His original creation. Why must you mix error with truth?

---jerry6593 on 2/8/13

Francis do you notice you do not answer challenges to your compromise view?

The new points you have brought up are not, in essence new, and have already been answered.

As I have said before Genesis 3 contains nothing to support your view therefore I cannot imagine why a Christian would pose such nonBiblical ideas. Of course we see natural selection today but that does not agree with what Genesis 3 explains. "Cursed is the ground"-there and then?

"all the days of your life" or only the days, much later, after adaptations had occured? Do you understand this point?

Satan was cursed, made to crawl on his belly. Then and there or after long enough time for natural changes to occur?
---Warwick on 2/8/13

francis, the venus fly trap does not kill large animals but they kill bugs and thrive off the protein in the bugs. there is also a plant that repels mosquitos and other flying insect. my friend had one on her back porch but I can't recall the name of the plant.
---shira4369 on 2/8/13

Look at other plants like the Venus flytrap.
We know that it is not possible that this plant ate animals in Eden.

So now we have a plant which had descent with modification

There are birds which feed on the marrow of other animals. To get the marrow they take the bones high in the sky and drop them on a large rock which cracks the bones open

Is that something from Eden or a descent with modification?
---francis on 2/7/13

Francis, my point is that when God said to Adam "when you eat of it you will die" obviously does not mean he died when he ate the fruit but as commentators point out the Hebrew means he stopped being immortal and became mortal therefore he began to die. That is he became as we are on a course to death when we are born.

Further the changes God made could not have been slow as per adaptation as God said the ground is cursed, not will be cursed, causing Adam to have to toil all the days of his life henceforth. If you are right he did not have to toil in such a way until things changed over ages, via adaptation. And further why would things have to adapt if the land outside Eden was just as it was created in the beginning?
---Warwick on 2/7/13

francis, you are just as messed up on adam and sin as you are on works for salvation.
---shira4368 on 2/7/13

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." We need to remember "the day" does not mean 1 specific 24hr day, but "when" as some modern translations correctly render it.
---Warwick on 2/7/13

But Adam took several years to die, that was my point.

It also took several years for it to rain, and we know that without rain cultivation is difficult, it was after the rain in noahs days that the curse was lifted

so we are sure than thorns and thistles evolved between the days that adam was kicked out fo the garden,a nd the flood
---francis on 2/7/13

Francis, the Hebrew behind Genesis 2:17 means Adam immediately died spiritually, no longer having the intimate relationship he previously shared with God. And He and Eve were expelled from the garden so they could not eat of the tree of life and live forever. In one sense Adam had already died,(compared to what he was) as he had become mortal. His life process was now one set, by God, towards his eventual death. As Wesley says "he became liable to death." We need to remember "the day" does not mean 1 specific 24hr day, but "when" as some modern translations correctly render it. Many Bible expositors such as Clarke, Gill and Morris say 2:17 means-a death you will die, or, dying you will die.
---Warwick on 2/7/13

Genesis 2:17 IN THE DAY that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

It took hundreds of years for Adam to die

But we are not told in scripture, how long it took for spines, thorns, and thistles to grow

What we do klnow is this:
Spines and thorns spring up whenever water is in short supply, or when plants are attacked.

We do know that Eden had water from river.
We do know that it is very difficuly yo farm where water is in short supply.
We do know that Unlike God, Adam had to cultivate from seed and sapling.
We do know that it did not rain until Noah's days, and that after the rain of Noah's days the ground was not cursed anymore.
---francis on 2/7/13

Francis your adaptation idea is not consistent with Scripture or nonBiblical knowledge.

In Genesis ch. 3:17,18 God tells Adam " ...cursed is the ground because of you, in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life, thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, and you shall eat the plants of the field." The ground was there and then cursed and all the days of Adams life, from then until he died he would sweat and strain to produce food. Adaptation is not an immediate process, in nature, but one taking a long, long, time. However Scripture says the results began on day one when Adam and Eve were evicted from Eden.

---Warwick on 2/6/13

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Here is what i think we can all agree on
1: there were no thrns and spines in Eden
2: The venus flytrap did not eat animals in Eden
3: That man did not evolve from microbes

I hope that we can all agree that these features ( spines / thorns / thistles, plants eating animals) were a result of the fall/ curse, and are adaptation which has given us a variety not found in the six days of creation
---francis on 2/6/13

---Warwick on 2/5/13
I like this post of yours

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

The scripture does not say that the earth revolves around the sun, or the moon around the earth, yet science tells us

There are many natural things not revealed in the bible but revealed in science

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
---francis on 2/5/13

Francis I did not say God used adaptation. I wrote "..why would God use adaptation to achieve a change which He can speak into existance immediately..." You need to read more carefully.

I did not say you endorse microbe-to-man evolution. However by calling adaptation/natural selection micro evolution you are falling into the trap set by evolutionists, as I explained.

We need to remember the curse was instuted by God therefore any changes mentioned in Genesis ch. 3 are His doing. Romans 8:20, referring to the curse says "For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope." Where does Scripture say thorns etc came by adaptation?
---Warwick on 2/5/13

---Warwick on 2/5/13
I do not recall endorsing " microbe to man evolution."

Look again at your statements:

"Natural selection/adaptation is something we can see occurring."Warwick on 2/5/13

Further why would God use adaptation to achieve a change which He can speak into existance immediately-
---Warwick on 2/3/13

So now consider my position
God did not instantly put spines and thorns and cactus, that adaptation occurred over time

You are saying BOTH God did it instantly and also that it takes time and we can see it

Spine to leaves and leaves to spine can be seen in many plants it takes time
---francis on 2/5/13

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You ask why Christians can't see that it would be quite easy for God to create everything in 6 24-hour days. It's because they, as Scripture tells us, 'conform to this world and [are not] transformed by the renewing of their mind". That is, they are "cheated through [pagan] philosophy and deceit, according to the [materialism] tradition of men, according to the basic [naturalistic] principles of the world, and not according to Christ's revelation".
---Marc on 2/5/13

Francis you continue to confuse natural selection/adaptation with microbe to man evolution. Natural selection/adaptation is something we can see occurring. However it is a conservative process, deleting already present genetic information from a population while microbe to man evolution would require the creation of vast amounts of totally new, specific, unique, genetic information. This has never been seen to occur.

Micro evolution/macro evolution are clever terms, a ploy created by certain evolutionists to falsely suggest that x number of micro changes will produce a macro change. This is not true as speciation/adaptation produces varieties/species within a kind, but cannot produce new kinds. All dogs are still dogs!
---Warwick on 2/5/13

david, I love your post. adam was made in the image of God. God walks, talks, he has hands and arms. the bible even tells us His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts. therefore, he has thoughts and a mind. we know he has hands because the bible says no one can pluck us out of His hand. we know he has eyes because He sees us inside and out. just a few little tid bits to think about.
---shira4368 on 2/5/13

Why is it so hard for some "Christians" (and, I'm not referring to you, Jerry. I think your question was meant "rhetorically", but, correct me if I'm wrong on that). But, why is it that some of those who claim to follow GOD can't take literally the statement of GOD creating all in 6 literal, 24-hour DAYS? All GOD had to do was think of an idea of something to create, and then, SPEAK IT into existence. These Theistic-Evolutionists have a small view of GOD. Leaning on their own understanding, in that, because THEY can't fathom anyone creating all in just 144 hours, doesn't mean it can't be done by the OMNIPOTENT GOD. P.S., There's something about that number "144" (see REVELATION 7).
---Gordon on 2/5/13

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---jerry6593 on 2/5/13
Well being from florida you will appreciate this

When Adam was created on the 6th day, there were already fruits ready for Adam to eat.
Adam himself could talk and walk, and even reason on the very day he was created

So in Eden, an aorange tree that was created three days ago, had the characteristic of one plated 3-5 years ago.

Adam although hours old, was characteristically mature.

So the age of the earth, and the characteristics of the life on earth was very different

Not every plant makes thorns.
---francis on 2/5/13

I do not think that understanding the microevolution of plants and animals is an essencial doctrine

If you choose to hold on to the belief that no life form ever evolves and that all stay the same as they were created in the six days of creation, no problems

but always remember these two thins: Man did not evolve from animal, no animal evolved from another animal ( cats did not come from fish or frogs)


Proverbs 25:2 [It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter
---francis on 2/4/13

francis: Ronald Reagan said it best. [paraphrasing]:

"It's not that you liberals don't know anything, it's just that most of what you know is wrong."

You said: "While the earth itself may be 8000ISH years old, plants are characteristically 1,000,000ISH years old"

Now just how did these plants live without an earth? Just floating in outer space?

On the subject of water depravation, I have inadvertently deprived many plants of water in the hot Florida sun, but not one of them ever developed thorns. They just died. I think that you and your college textbooks are full of bunk.

---jerry6593 on 2/5/13

---Peter on 2/4/13
Good post

The age of the earth, and the age of plants are different. The reason I used plants, and I choose two that would be obvious ( cacti and venus flytrap) is because we can easily create lab experiements to reverse spines on cactus to leaves, and to a christian it is obvious that no plant would eat an animal in Eden, so surely we can say that this is descent with modification

While the earth itself may be 8000ISH years old, plants are characteristically 1,000,000ISH years old
---francis on 2/4/13

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Francis: 'But no one can truely discuss evolution and creation with having BOTH sound biblical knowledge, and college level biology'

Uncertain, actually. You really need to add the 6000ish years the world has had to evolve to definitely prove evolution is impossible. In 6000 years,forget it!

For in that time, REALLY nothing could evolve except maybe people who are a bit taller, but never a new species.

So we need to remind people of the age of the world, and consider ways of demonstrating that more surely
---Peter on 2/4/13

---jerry6593 on 2/4/13
I admire you zeal for creation. I too am a creationist and do not believe that man evolved from animals.

But no one can truely discuss evolution and creation with having BOTH sound biblical knowledge, and college level biology

Further why would God use adaptation to achieve a change which He can speak into existance immediately-let there be light, and there was light...!
---Warwick on 2/3/13
God has already spoken all things into existance the six days of creation. The other option is to create plants with spines, and thorns after the sixth day

Keep in mind that Adam did not die the very day he ate, it tool some 800+ years after he ate. the process was slow
---francis on 2/4/13

francis: "Any college level biology book."

Oh, you mean the ones that teach darwinian Evolution? Do you know of any documented experiment whereby a non-thornbearing plant developed thorns by water deprivation?

You're a SDA, and we're known as the people of the Bible. Act like one, and stop swallowing the left-wing academic drivel dispensed at most universities. Warwick is not a SDA, but he understands the scientific veracity of the biblical Creation account better than you do.

---jerry6593 on 2/4/13

Peter, thanks for the apology but it wasn't necessary. As I see it this is a site where people debate. On occasions the debate is strong, and sometimes rude, but valuable nonetheless.
---Warwick on 2/3/13

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Francis, Scripture convinces me the curse must have been enacted immediately after sin, its cause. Therefore whatever changes God made were not naturalistic processes but the result of God's commands. There is every Biblical reason to understand Adam and Eve were immediately banished from the Garden of Eden so they could not eat from the tree of life and live forever. Therefore they would immedialely have to make their living by hard work as Genesis 3:19 says. They were no longer in the earthly paradise, now in a hard place. It all happened very quickly, not by any form of evolution over time.

Further why would God use adaptation to achieve a change which He can speak into existance immediately-let there be light, and there was light...!
---Warwick on 2/3/13

Let us now consider another plant: The Venus Flytrap a plant that eats animals

Can you conceive of a plant that eats animals in Eden?

So we can be 100% sure that a plant that eats animals is a descent with modification, evolution, some would say a result of the curse

I believe that heaven will be a joy for biologist and astronauts more than any other group of people

a bee that does not sting
a snake that does not strike
a lion that eats grass
---francis on 2/3/13

What science? Give reference, please.
---jerry6593 on 2/3/13

Any college level biology book

God made everything so please tell why you think thorns and thistles evolved. where do you find that?
---shira4368 on 2/2/13

Thorns and thistles are a result of the curse as the bible pointed out, they were not part of the six days of creation

They serve to conserve water as plants loose water through their leaves

They also serve as a form for defense, and adaptation not needed in eden

Some plant, like cactus will actually turn their spines / thorns into leaves if they are given enough water
---francis on 2/3/13

francis: "Science has shown that thorns are an adaptation by plants to conserve water."

What science? Give reference, please. You must decide whether Evolution is occurring or not. None of the examples you have given are Evolution, since they don't create changes in the genome, but rather effect the appearance of change by selective breeding.

---jerry6593 on 2/3/13

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Well OK, I apologize for what I wrote about Francis and Warwick.

I had the initial idea that you had too strong a dispute, but now that I read it more carefully I recongise I was wrong.

Sorry to both of you!
---Peter on 2/2/13

God made everything so please tell why you think thorns and thistles evolved. where do you find that?
---shira4368 on 2/2/13

---Peter on 2/1/13
Warwick and I are not arguing at all. We are having a good honest discussion

Francis, you have changed your tune.
---Warwick on 2/1/13
On 1/30/13 I first stated that God did not create again * thorns and thistles)

I agree with you 100% that thorns and thistles are part fo the curse not a new creation

What I am saying is that thorns and thistles did not spring up overnight. Science has shown that thorns are an adaptation by plants to conserve water. This is descent with modification / evolution of a plant that ws not created in the six days of creation
---francis on 2/2/13

Peter, much of which occurs upon these pages is robust argument, and we all can learn from it. Why does that bother you?
---Warwick on 2/2/13

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Francis and Warwick: Why can't you have your argument in private, like all personal disputes!?
---Peter on 2/1/13

Francis, you have changed your tune. You now write "Surely God did not create thorns and thistles in any of the six days of creation." I have clearly and repeatedly written that Genesis ch. 3 spells out some of the changes God made to the earth and its inhabitants because of their sin. I have not said thorns and thistles were made during God's 6-day creation. Do you understand the curse and what it did, and still does?
---Warwick on 2/1/13

There is nothing here to support your view, ---Warwick on 2/1/13

"thorns are an evolutionary adaptation of plants to conserve water"

Where did you get that? Don't you believe the following?
---jerry6593 on 2/1


Proverbs 25:2 [It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.

Surely God did not create thorns and thistles in any of the six days of creation

Genesis 2:5 for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth,

Adam however had water in Eden

Genesis 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden,

Science has shown that thorns are an adaptation by plants to conserve water.
---francis on 2/1/13

Francis, carefully read Genesis chapter 3 and you will see that therein God pronounced the curse upon the 3 persons involved in this sorry affair. Even the ground was then cursed by God causing it from then on to produce thorns and thistles. There is nothing here to support your view, only the opposite. If there was you would have referred to it, but you haven't because your idea is not based in Biblical reality.
---Warwick on 2/1/13

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Warwick, very well said. People want to tinker with the word, disect it, and then add to His Word what is not there. Forgetting everything that is mention is because it has a purpose and many times has some kind relationship with another passage, the reason it was mentioned in the first place and why other things were not mention.
---Mark_V. on 2/1/13

francis: "thorns are an evolutionary adaptation of plants to conserve water"

Where did you get that? Don't you believe the following?

"Though the curse of sin has caused the earth to bring forth thorns and thistles, there are flowers upon the thistles and the thorns are hidden by roses." E.G. White, PP, p. 600

---jerry6593 on 2/1/13

Warwick, I do agree with you on your explanation of the thorns and thistles. The words are used literally in (Gen. 3:18), speaking of the ground producing them through the curse. Any other way is to put doubt God was speaking about the ground.
When you read (Heb. 6:8) in those passages by the context, thorns and thistles are used first literally representing the ground, then metaphorically the ground as people, and those people which have thorns and thistles are the lost, bad fruit, it is rejected by God whose end is to be burned.
---Mark_V. on 2/1/13

Francis, we are discussing what Genesis says so why not believe it?
---Warwick on 1/31/13

I beleve that God created the world in six days and rested on the 7th. That is whay I am a SDA. I amnot like those who say that God created in six days, rested and blessed the 7th and then choose to ignore the blessing of God for the first day

I am also aware that God did not greate thorns and thistles.

I am very well aware that thorns are an evolutionary adaptation of plants to conserve water

I am very well aware that most plants will turn their thorns into leaves in the next generation if they are watered properly
---francis on 1/31/13

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Francis, we are discussing what Genesis says so why not believe it?

As regards Adam Genesis 3 shows God proclaiming His curse upon the earth, His reaction to Adam's sin. God says the ground is NOW cursed and will NOW produce thorns and thistles. There is no sense that thorns and thistles will eventuate via some lengthy naturalistic process. God speaks and things happen-NOW. Why would supernatural God need to use some slow and haphazard naturalistic process?

Considering that thorns are a sign of the curse it is interesting to consider that a crown of thorns was placed upon Jesus' head before His crucifixion.
---Warwick on 1/31/13

---Warwick on 1/31/13

Yes but how did thorns and thisles come about. Did God crate thorns and thistles or are they as we know them to be, a process of decsend with modification to adapt to drought conditions?

We do know that with proper hydration, cacti thorns turn to leaves
---francis on 1/31/13

Warwick said, "BTW humans are the one kind and one species as all people can interbreed. Dogs are the same."

A Chihuahua and a Great Dane - I'd like to see that!

No, on second thoughts - maybe not!
---Marc on 1/31/13

Francis, the Bible says thorns and thistles were purposely brought into existence by God, because of Adam's sin, as part of the curse, as Genesis 3:18 shows.
---Warwick on 1/31/13

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Genesis 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee, and thou shalt eat the herb of the field,

There were no thorns and thistles in Eden.

Where did they come from?

Did God start creating all over again


Thorns and thistles are an evolutionary result of lack of H2O
---francis on 1/30/13

Atheist: Your views are logical, and they remind me of the views of the views of a thinker of the 20th century. I consider that if there is a creator, He cannot be created.Now I take your objection to be that you don't like the view of anyone not being created, if the universe is created (logic is accepted)....But in any universe, there are some thing that are the bases -at the moment, there are the four physical forces (gravity, strong force,weak force and electromagnetism) that are classed as 'something we cant understand'

I understand, and in some ways I accept your view, that science provides an explanation.

While I respect you view, I consider that belief in God is a more 'complete' answer.

You are a good thinker
---Peter on 1/29/13


That's the problem, it is an infinite regression and leads to no answer.

Saying the Creator was the creator means nothing.
---atheist on 1/29/13


And how do you know Thor is not the DESIGNER?

And so ID is not based on science but the bible?
---atheist on 1/29/13

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Francis, speciation is not evolution. We say a new species has arrived when two members of the same kind (e.g. birds) cannot interbreed. This is not microbe to man evolution but occurs by deletion or corruption of genetic information. Arctic terns are a good example as those of one geographical extreme cannot breed with others of the opposite extreme. Nonetheless they are still terns which look identical. This is not evolution as it does not create the massive amount of new, unique and specific information which would be necessary to turn a bird into something which is not a bird.

BTW humans are the one kind and one species as all people can interbreed. Dogs are the same.
---Warwick on 1/29/13

Atheist: If you ask about who created God, it is a question I have never asked it, but I will try to ask a different type of question.

When we ask about creation, the very nature of creation always implies that there MUST be one Creator initially who started.

So if there is a Creator, He cannot be have been created by another Creator, because then the same question applies again....

If you keep asking the question of Who created the Creator, it becomes an impossible question
---Peter on 1/29/13

Did God employ long-age darwinian Evolution in the creation of earth's animals and mankind?
---jerry6593 on 1/26/13
Animals YES
mankind NO

There is only ONE species of mankind

But from the wolf we have many species of dogs which were not in Eden
---francis on 1/29/13

Atheist, your question is born of ignorance. If you had Biblical knowledge you would know God is eternal, uncreated, the Creator of all things created.
---Warwick on 1/29/13

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Who or what created the DESIGNER?
---atheist on 1/29/13

The new teaching is INTELLIGENT DESIGN. Darwinism is chance, accidental and mutations. INTELLIGENT DESIGN is that the detail is too great and complex. NO ACCIDENT. Detail. DESIGN. A DESIGNER.
---bike on 1/29/13

To the question- NOT A CHANCE!

Friend don't believe for a skinny minute that the genesis creation account shouldn't be believed, The Lord Jesus himself quoted it concerning marriage.

Furthermore, Darwin himself said his theory was trash if the fossil record was insufficient to prove it. To this day the missing link between Neanderthal and modern man cannot be shown.

The fossil record is MASSIVE in this day and age. Billions of discoveries have been made. Atheism is a religion that requires MORE FAITH then any faith system honest enough to call itself one. Darwin is a failure and his proponents are disgraceful to suggest otherwise.
---Pharisee on 1/28/13

A theist: If God does not exist, then neither do you. Science and mathematics have positively proven that abiogenesis is impossible - yet you believe it by blind faith. After all, Evolution IS the religion of the atheist.

Marc: How I love your posts! Oh that more people would investigate the scientific (or lack thereof) foundation of Darwinism. To this date, I have yet to find anyone who can state a single thing about Evolution that they KNOW to be true.

Shira: The atheist is mere comic relief. I am writing to Christians who have been duped by their humanist professors.

Peter: You called Evolution a "scientific theory". It is an hypothesis at best.
---jerry6593 on 1/27/13

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Atheist: I always find your comments interesting, though this one is more sarcastic....
The point about the concept of evolution is that like all scientific theories, it is only a theory. It is accepted by many people in science for various reasons, whatever those reasons are.

Some may really believe it, though I sometime wonder (I remember not who wrote it) whether the other reason, written about 50 year back, might be true...... because the alternative, Biblical Creation, is not an acceptable theory for those who want to explain things

I do not say that is why

I just wonder
---Peter on 1/27/13

God created the earth before Darwin existed. So no, he did not employ darwinian evolution in creation. However, if you think you know exactly how creation happened then you simply haven't read Genesis or you would understand that you really have no idea and will never know. Somethings we will never know for sure until we meet The Creator Himself. Science and creation exists together. That is a fact.
---Jed on 1/26/13

bike, I love your post. you are right, we are made in the image of God. God divided man at the tower of babel and that is where all the races came from. wouldn't it be nice if we could have our garden of eden? we do really have our garden in service for the Lord. He keeps us and gives us our needs. God has always taken care of me and I have never had to live without food, water, roof over my head and heat to keep me warm and gave me a great church, all that rolled into one big bundle and I am happy.
---shira4368 on 1/26/13

Acts 17:26 "From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth." Interesting from one man, we have every color of skin, hair and eyes and shape of human. Genesis 1:12 "The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds." Humans evolved from humans. Jeremiah 13:23 "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?" Humans did not evolve from apes, but from their own kind. But we do share dust. Genesis 3:19 "for dust you are and to dust you will return." We are clay. Job 10:9, Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 Man is like the animal.
---bike on 1/26/13

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jerry, you gave an open door for atheist to jump in. all you need to do is read genesis 1. that is how we came to be. atheist will never read genesis and if he did, he would even know how he came to be.
---shira4368 on 1/26/13

Anyone who has read a few hundred evolutionary-based peer-reviewed articles on the origin of life, as I have done (and unlike Athiest here), is immediately struck by the plethora of 'possibly's', 'maybe's', 'by chance's', 'it is hoped's', 'it is unlikely that but it must have happened's', etc etc, inserted to explain an event that no one saw and about which there is not a single datum to support. You see, if stochastic chemistry did it, and you could see inert matter arrange itself to the degree of complexity that defines life, then there would be no need to write articles attempting to persuade you it actually happened.
---Marc on 1/26/13

God doesn't exist, Jerry.

It was all done by the invisible pink unicorn last Thursday while sipping tea provided by the flying spaghetti monster's virgin wife who gave birth the Thor.

I know this is bizarre but if you want to believe you can....
---atheist on 1/26/13

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