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Who Is Jesus Scriptures

Who do you say that He is? Talking about Jesus Christ. Give Scripture.

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 ---Mark_V. on 2/8/13
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[Jehovah] "Abbreviated" Ruben (2)

The Hebrew text employs the name "Jah" repeatedly. Here's a sampling just from the book of Psalms alone:

Psalms 68:4, 68:18, 77:11, 89:8, 94:7, 94:12, 102:18, 104:35, 105:45, 106:1, 106:48, 111:1 , 112:1, 113:1, 113:9, 115:17, 115:18, 116:19, 117:2, 118:5, 118:14, 118:17, 118:18

Since you've taken issue with the NWT using the divine name a few times in the NT where writers quote from OT verses where the name appears (they certainly wouldn't have catered to apostate, Jewish tradition) tell us...

...why do other translations actually alter the text by changing YHWH (or YH) to the indistinct "Lord" or "God" about 7,000 times?
---scott on 2/15/13


"Is that the best you can come up with (in it's abbreviated form)" Ruben (1)

Careful my friend. You tread dangerous, blasphemous waters by belittling the name of the Almighty God...no matter which form He chose to have recorded by inspired bible writers.

"Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him." Ps 68:4 KJV

Strong's #3050: "Jah"

1) Jehovah in the shortened form.
a) The proper name of the one true God.

Continued
---scott on 2/15/13


So, according to Warwick, the 'creator of all things' has 'sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.' Col.1:16, Heb.1:3. Two God's and two creators sitting next to eachother. Warwick and his trinitarian co-conspirator Ruben believe "they" are 'different persons... equal in nature as Almighty God'.

Warwick like Ruben is a trinitarian polytheist, worshipping at least 2 Almighty God's.

Colossians 1:16 says about Jesus that 'all things have been created through Him and for Him.' (Holman)

The word used is 'panta' and can be translated 'all other' according to context. Jesus is 'the Son of God', the 'firstborn of all creation' and like the 'first Adam' is a created being- John 1:34, Col.1:15, 1 Cor.15:45.
---David8318 on 2/13/13


'That just my guess:)'- Ruben.

It's my guess they did use God's name YHWH (Jehovah). You cannot say for any certainty John, Paul or Jesus did not use God's name in speech or in writing.

You haven't given any reasons why they would not have used God's name in their everyday language and writings.

After Jesus was baptised and in the synagogue, Jesus rose and read in the Hebrew tongue from the book of Isaiah- chapter 61, without doubt (I guess) from a Hebrew scroll where God's name appeared in the form of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton YHWH, and as quoted by Luke Jesus said, 'Jehovah's (YHWH) spirit is upon me...'

Why would Jesus NOT have used God's name on this occasion? What proof have you got Jesus didn't? (Jo.17:26)
---David8318 on 2/13/13


[Jehovah] "Not in the King James version." Matthew

Right.

While the Hebrew name of God (YHWH or yod, heh waw, heh) appears in the oldest OT text over 6,800 times, the KJ translators presumptuously replaced it with "Lord" or "God".

However they did translate it as "Jehovah" in four places:

Ex 6:3, Psa 83:18, Isa 12:2 and Isa 26:4.

This, in my humble opinion, is a shocking tampering with the inspired text.

Whether it's translated as Jehovah, Yahweh, Yehowah or, even as we find in some Greek manuscripts- that just leave the Hebrew characters in place- allowing readers to decide on pronunciation, God chose to include His unique name...

...for a reason.
---scott on 2/13/13




"No where did the apostles, Jesus nor Paul use the name Jehova." Ruben

Oh Ruben. You're embarrassing yourself.

Was John not an apostle? He used the divine name (in it's abbreviated form) at Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6.

"Praise ye Jah! for it is good. Sing psalms of our God, for it is pleasant: praise is comely." Ps 147:1 Darby
---scott on 2/12/13

Scott,

Is that the best you can come up with (in it's abbreviated form)

//Never mind zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.//
---Ruben on 2/13/13


The Greek equivalent has a work Kyrios which means LORD in Greek......
---Peter on 2/12/13

The word kyrios is also used in NT passages which quote OT passages that had the tetragrammaton (YHWH) in them. It is used as a substitute for the tetragrammaton.

Since this substitution has proven to be valid by Scripture itself, perhaps we can substitute the tetragrammaton into this verse and see the true meaning of it:

Phil 2:10-11 "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is YHWH, to the glory of God the Father"
---Mark_Eaton on 2/13/13


1st_cliff: You should acknowledge the small dimension of human understanding of God. Physical death on the cross and resurrection is the Salvation plan of the Father(to save mankind from eternal death). It is a divine act. How can you explain the appearance & disappearance of Moses & Elijah (Matt.17) in human terms?
---Adetunji on 2/13/13


He is the image of the invisible God (Col 1:5)

He is the Creator of all things
(Col 1:16)

He is the Word of God made flesh (John 1:14)

He is Yod Hey Vav Hey (Behold the hand, behold the hook/nail) He was, is and is to come. The Alpha and Omega.
---JackB on 2/12/13


Mark V, Then obviously since you are convinced that Jesus is the Father and the Father is immortal that he never "really" died and you are still in sin!
To believe that Jesus is the Father would mean that He faked His death, it was all a hoax?
You don't understand the meaning of immortality or death!
---1st_cliff on 2/13/13




1Cliff, what you ask is not what Adetunji said, Here's what was said,
"Jesus is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. ..
Adetunji on 2/12/"

The word Jesus was first. Christ is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. That phrase is not used in Scripture, but the Truth of that phrase is in Scripture. I just wanted to clarify what was said, not something else completely. How can that be? Because Christ is God. All Three Persons in their Divine nature is God. I have a lot of passages on that. Christ is self-existence, Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotent, Immutable, Soverereign. Christ is constantly represented in Scripture as having qualities which could be possessed only by God. There more.
---Mark_V. on 2/12/13


In the two Bibles I have available in English (KJV, RSV) they use The LORD in that verse.

The Greek equivalent has a work Kyrios which means LORD in Greek......

I assume that YHWH, without knowing, since it occurs in Greek OTs 2200 years ago Kyrios, either means LORD or is a word which means about the same thing. It may be the same 'Eloi' which Luke says means 'My LORD' (in Aramaic)

It is just a question of whether we should keep a word from Hebrew, as you view, or whether we should translate it into our own language.

It is not something we should argue about, or we will become like those who insist on holding liturgy in....... Latin
---Peter on 2/12/13


This commandment have I received of my Father.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is,
but the Father, and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

-
if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do:
for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Peace
---TheSeg on 2/12/13


Jehovah-

"And in that day shall ye say, Give thanks unto Jehovah, call upon his name, declare his doings among the peoples, make mention that his name is exalted. Sing unto Jehovah, for he hath done excellent things: let this be known in all the earth." Is 12:4, 5- ASV, YLT, DBY
---scott on 2/12/13


Scott: not in the King James version
---Matthew on 2/12/13


"No where did the apostles, Jesus nor Paul use the name Jehova." Ruben

Oh Ruben. You're embarrassing yourself.

Was John not an apostle? He used the divine name (in it's abbreviated form) at Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6.

"Praise ye Jah! for it is good. Sing psalms of our God, for it is pleasant: praise is comely." Ps 147:1 Darby
---scott on 2/12/13


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"And you agree that Paul use JAH to Jesus!" Ruben

What does that even mean? Never mind zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
---scott on 2/12/13


"and Paul uses JAH on Jesus not Jehova" Ephesians 4:7-10- Ruben

At least we established, and you have agreed, that the divine name does, in fact, appear in the Greek scriptures.

That wasn't so hard was it?
---scott on 2/11/13

And you agree that Paul use JAH to Jesus!

That wasn't so hard was it?:)
---Ruben on 2/12/13


Adetunji, **God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit**
If you can show me that phrase anewhere in the entire bible i will repent in sackcloth and ashes!
Otherwise it's something you "made up"!
---1st_cliff on 2/12/13


Jesus is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. There is no argument about it. Only Christianity affirms this, all other religions or sects do not understand this because they are all from the same ungodly source.
---Adetunji on 2/12/13


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'But yet your kingdom Interlinear does not have the name YHWH in the Greek NT!'- Ruben.

But yet the oldest Hebrew texts and manuscripts do have the name YHWH in the Hebrew scriptures (OT) and yet you omit using God's name in your translations.

Why do you refuse to use God's name in the Hebrew (OT) Scriptures when YHWH is found there?

Ruben your argument is rife with hypocrisy!
---David8318 on 2/11/13

David,

My answer would be I guess the same reason St. Paul or St. Peter or even Jesus himself was not recorded as using the name YHWH, it must not be all that important for us to use it today.

That just my guess:)
---Ruben on 2/12/13


Warwick, Here's the delemma,
After Jesus' ascention, God (Father) gives the Son "a name above any other name,makes all authority subject to him" How could this happen if he already was supreme?
It's a given that the Son is obedient to the Father,again,obedient to Himself?
The commandment was "No other God's BEFORE me "or above me etc. But now He allows Jesus to be worshipped in "Every knee will bow..."from then on!
Christ made Ruler of God's Kingdom! That's how I see it!
---1st_cliff on 2/12/13


Yashua (Jesus) was the first fruit of creation, thus he is called "son" of God. Through him all other things were made. Yashua is "co-creator" with the Father. "LET US MAKE FOR OURSELVES IN OUR IMAGE". The Trinitarian doctrine is not perfect. The Father is GREATER than the Son. Jesus submits to the Father. Jesus sits at the Father's right hand. He himself submits.
---Bike on 2/12/13


Matthew 1:21+++ She will bear a Son, and you shall call Him Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins. V. 23+++ "Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel, which means, "God with us".
---pat on 2/12/13


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David, deceitful as ever but now more and more people are aware of it.

Isaiah 9:6 calls the Coming Saviour "Mighty God" but you say He is not Almighty God. You also say He is "a god." Therefore in your own words you have an Almighty God, a Mighty God and a god. A triad of gods! What hypocrisy!

How do you explain away Colossians 1 which says Jesus is the Creator of everything created, on earth, in heaven, visible and visible? How can He be Creator of everything and at the same time a created being?

How do you explain away Colossians 1 and Hebrews 1:3 which both say Jesus is the one who holds all things together/sustains all things by His powerful word?
---Warwick on 2/12/13


1st Cliff,

Col2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
What do you think this means?

Heb1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Need we say more???

John8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Jesus Christ is eternal!

Zec13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts:
"fellow" meaning equal.

Cliff, be cautious how you speak of Christ!
---trey on 2/11/13


At least we established, and you have agreed, that the divine name does, in fact, appear in the Greek scriptures.

That wasn't so hard was it?
---scott on 2/11/13

Scott,

Sorry he did not use the name Jehova and if he did , he applied it to Jesus.

No where did the apostles, Jesus nor Paul use the name Jehova.

(Jah is an abbreviated form of the name Jehovah.)
---Ruben on 2/11/13


Cliff, as you say the son of a human is a human. Therefore by the same reasoning the Son of God must be God. God communicates with us in terms we understand.

Deuteronomy 28:14 "and if you do not turn aside from any of the words that I command you today, to the right hand or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them." Therefore if anyone believes Jesus is a god, not God then in all conscience they must not follow or serve Him.

However the Colossians and Hebrews references I have supplied below show that Jesus is the Creator of everything (therefore Himself not created) and sustainer of all things. Do you imagine this description would be given to a god, an angel?
---Warwick on 2/11/13


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The divine name appears in its abbreviated form in the Greek Scriptures at Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6, it is embedded in the expression Alleluia, or Hallelu-jah. This expression literally means Praise Jah, you people! Jah is a contraction of the name Jehovah.

"That is correct..." Ruben.

Agreed

"and Paul uses JAH on Jesus not Jehova" Ephesians 4:7-10- Ruben

Uhh what? What dies that mean..."uses Jah on Jesus"? Is that like Karate? Jiu jitsu? How does one "use Jah" on someone else?

At least we established, and you have agreed, that the divine name does, in fact, appear in the Greek scriptures.

That wasn't so hard was it?
---scott on 2/11/13


Clue= humans have human sons
1st_cliff on 2/11/13

Clueless:
Joh_3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Mat_1:18 before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Mat_1:20 for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Dont think to hard on this one!
Luk_1:35 therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee (shall be called the Son of God.)

It was hard enough to be called the Son of God. You guys believe he was just a man?
Joh_9:32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.
Not one!
Peace
---TheSeg on 2/11/13


'But yet your kingdom Interlinear does not have the name YHWH in the Greek NT!'- Ruben.

But yet the oldest Hebrew texts and manuscripts do have the name YHWH in the Hebrew scriptures (OT) and yet you omit using God's name in your translations.

Why do you refuse to use God's name in the Hebrew (OT) Scriptures when YHWH is found there?

Ruben your argument is rife with hypocrisy!
---David8318 on 2/11/13


'So, how many gods do you have?'- christan.

'as indeed there are many 'gods' and many 'lords', yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came... and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came...' 1 Cor.8:5,6 (NIV).

As Paul said, there are 'many god's'. But I like Paul believe only one God.

Your rendering of John 1:1 contains 2 God's. The Word was 'with God', and 'the Word was God'. Two God's here of whom your co-trinitarian Ruben says, 'they are different persons...equal in nature as Almighty God'.

There is only one God at John 1:1 in the NWT and avoids your polytheist trinitarian rendering. The God the Word is with is Jehovah. The Word is 'a god' or divine.
---David8318 on 2/11/13


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'Paul also said , "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."'- Ruben.

And your point? You believe Paul meant 'Jesus is Jehovah'? So you are polytheist! God raised Jehovah God?

The scriptures are meaningless when viewed through the pagan lens of trinitarianism. If Jesus is God, the resurrection is meaningless. Jesus never died because he is 'God', and therefore no need for the resurrection.

The trinity is apostate antichrist philosophy.
---David8318 on 2/11/13


Warwick, That's one way of considering "context"
But put it this way, What is/was God's Son?
#1 a human?
#2 An Angel?
Clue= humans have human sons
God's Son must necessarily be ???? a god?
The warning was "You must not have any god "before" me!" Jesus is subservient to the Father making him a lesser God, But through His obedience the Father has given all things to the Son (Jn.17.1 & 2)
That's how it works!
---1st_cliff on 2/11/13


Ruben...I'm not sure if there is a Greek manuscript that doesn't use the divine name.

The divine name appears in its abbreviated form in the Greek Scriptures at Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6, it is embedded in the expression Alleluia, or Hallelu-jah. This expression literally means Praise Jah, you people! Jah is a contraction of the name Jehovah.

It's an abbreviation that can be found throughout the OT as well.

PS 68:4:

"Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him." KJV
---scott on 2/9/13

Scott,

That is correct and Paul uses JAH on Jesus not Jehova :

Ephesians 4:7-10-
---Ruben on 2/11/13


The (non-JW) Journal of Biblical Literature (Vol. 79, pp. 111-118)-

Dr. Kahle surveyed the accumulating evidence regarding the use of the divine name among the Jews and concluded: "All Greek translations of the Bible made by Jews for Jews in pre-Christian times must have used, as the name of God, the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew characters and not [Kyrios], or abbreviations of it, such as we find in the Christian [copies of the Septuagint]."
---scott on 2/9/13

But yet your kingdom Interlinear does not have the name YHWH in the Greek NT!
---Ruben on 2/11/13


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That includes when Greek writers quoted from the Hebrew- for example Paul quoting Joel 2:32 at Romans 10:13.
---David8318 on 2/9/13

Paul also said , "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
---Ruben on 2/11/13


John 1:1- Consider- Why do the following bibles and biblical scholars NOT use the familiar "The Word was God"? (1)

(Answer: Look to the original Greek).

The Bible A New Translation, James Moffatt, An American Translation, Smith & Goodspeed, 1939, The Four Gospels, C. Torrey. Second Edition, 1947, The New Testament, (in German), Fredrich Pfaefflin, 1949, The Authentic New Testament, Hugh J. Schonfield, 1956, The New Testament of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, James L. Tomanec, 1958, The New Testament, William Barclay, 1968, Translators New Testament, 1973, Qualitative Anarthrous Predicate Nouns: Mark 15:39 And John 1:1, Philip Harner, Vol. 92, 1974...

Continbued
---scott on 2/11/13


John 1:1- Bibles and biblical scholars that do NOT use the familiar "The Word was God"? (3)

Look to the Greek-

...The Gospel History According to the Four Evangelists, 1828, 1829, The Final Theology, Volume I, New York, M.B. Sawyer and Company, 1879, Robert Harvey, D.D., Professor of New Testament Language and Literature, Westminster College, Cambridge, The Historic Jesus in the New Testament, London, Student Move- ment Christian Press, 1931, p.129, William Temple, Archbishop of York, Readings in St. Johns Gospel, London, Macmillian & Co., 1933, p. 3, The Gospels, A Translation, Harmony and Annotations, St. Louis, John S. Swift Co., Inc., 1943.

And yes...there are others.
---scott on 2/11/13


David you have a habit of failing to answer questions.

For example you regularly accuse Trinitarians of being polytheists. At the same time you say the Father is God and the Son is a god, don't you? Yes or no? That means you, having a God and a god makes you a polytheist, doesn't it. Yes or no?

I have also pointed out that as Deuteronomy 28:14 says we should not follow or serve any god, doesn't it? Yes or no?

Therefore, you, claiming to be Christian must serve and follow Jesus, musn't you? Yes or no? Therefore by serving or following a god you are in contradiction of Scripture, arent you? Yes or no?
---Warwick on 2/11/13


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David, Colossians ch. 1 says Jesus is Creator of "all things" both visible and invisible, in heaven and on earth.

Is this what Colossians says? Yes or no?

He cannot be Creator of everything and also be a created being, can He? Yes or no?

Colossians 1 says "in him all things hold together." This is echoed in Hebrews 1:3 which says Jesus is the one "sustaining all things by his powerful word."

Is this what Colossians and Hebrews say? Yes or no?

You therefore must believe a being who created Himself, (an angel you say), is both Creator and sustainer of all things? Is this true David, do you ask us to believe an angel is both Creator and sustainer of all things? Yes or no?
---Warwick on 2/11/13


Cliff, translation is not done word for word but meaning to meaning. Consider French to English (where I have experience) 'Qu'est-ce que c'est cette maison?' -literally 'What is it that it is that house?' This is correctly translated 'What is that house?' John 1:1 is correctly translated "the word was God." To translate it "a god" is polytheism. Deuteronomy 28:14 says we must not follow or serve any 'god' which means you, to be consistent, must not serve or follow Jesus.

Further John 1:1 is correctly translated "the word was God" as Jesus is here called Creator, confirmed by Colossians ch.1, and Hebrews 1:3. Therefore "a god" is out of context.
---Warwick on 2/11/13


warwick, the trinity is a fact. you can't get away from that if you read the right bible. it is all thru the whole bible. John 10:30..I and my father are one. there are many 3's in the bible. even in philemon has several 3's. fellowlabourer...fellowsoldier...fellow prisoner. love is mentioned 3 times...servant, partner, brother beloved. Jesus Christ, timothy, philemon. this is just one chapter. the trinity is throughout the whole bible.
---shira4368 on 2/11/13


Warwick,All the bibles you cited are translations of Greek to English.
With no article "a" in the Greek text how else can they render it but to omit the "a"? Omitting the a does not agree with the context!
But it does give the little twist to support trinity!
---1st_cliff on 2/10/13


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David, in reality I have never seen a Trinitarian Bible, only the Bibles used by the vast majority of Christians. However if my examples are Trinitarian Bibles then the mostly unknown/obscure versions referred to by Scott, are anti-Trinitarian versions. Therefore what is your point?

Your hollow claim that Trinitarians are polytheists exposes you as an hypocrite. You believe the Father is God and the Son is a god. You, by your own words, are a polytheist. And this places you in direct opposition to God (see Deuteronomy 28:14) as we are commanded not to follow or serve 'gods.' However Colossians 3:44 says we serve the Lord Jesus. He therefore cannot be a 'god' can He?
---Warwick on 2/10/13


'All the leading Bibles below say-the word was God.'- Warwick.

All the leading (trinitarian) Bibles say-the word was God

Your list is very under-whelming.
---David8318 on 2/10/13


Rev_21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

I guess not everyone's
Peace
---TheSeg on 2/10/13


All the leading Bibles below say-the word was God.

The New International Version 1984
New Living Translation (2007)
English Standard Version (2001)
New American Standard Bible (1995)
Holman Christian Standard Bible (2009)
International Standard Version (2012)
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (2010)
GOD'S WORD Translation (1995)
King James 2000 Bible (2003)
American King James Version
American Standard Version
Douay-Rheims Bible
Darby Bible Translation
English Revised Version
Webster's Bible Translation Weymouth New Testament World English Bible
Young's Literal Translation'

And there are others.
---Warwick on 2/10/13


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Ruben- if you're hung up about the WTS/NWT using 'Jehovah' in the Christian Greek scriptures when you claim 'Jehovah' doesn't appear in any Greek Manuscript, why does your Bible and nearly every other trinitarian inspired translation omit God's name YHWH in the Hebrew scriptures (Genesis - Malachi) when it is without dispute found in the most oldest surviving Hebrew texts and in the LXX!?

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black- your argument does not follow logic and is hypocritical considering your trinitarian translators deliberately omit using God's name everywhere in the Hebrew scriptures!
---David8318 on 2/10/13


Christian , My brother was a doctor, How would you make this statement if there was no arcticle "a" in the English language?
Greek has no "a' !
---1st_cliff on 2/10/13


John 1:1- Christan

"The Word was a god"- NT of our Lord Jesus Christ, Rooleeuw, 1694.

"Word was a god"- The NT in an Improved Version, 1808.

"Word was a God"- The NT In Greek and English, Kneeland, 1822.

"As a god the Command was- Literal Translation of The NT, Heinfetter, 1863.

"Was a god" - German Biblical studies periodical, J.N. Jannaris, 1901.

"And (a) God was the word" - The Coptic NT, Horner, 1911.

"God of a sort the Word was" - The NT, Ludwig Thimme, 1919.

"Word was a God" - The NT of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed, Tomanec, 1958.
---scott on 2/10/13


David8318, let's take a look at the verses between your JW bible and that of the established KJV.

JW-NWT: John 1:1 "In beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."

KJV: John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

"the Word was a god"???? So, how many gods do you have?

Let's see, the KJV was originally first written between 1607-1610. The JW didn't come into existance till 1870. You want us to believe your version of your bible? Ya, right!
---christan on 2/10/13


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Among other things Colossians ch. 1 tells us Jesus is Creator of "all things" both visible and invisible, both in heaven and on earth. He cannot be Creator of everything and also be a creature, as some falsely claim. It also says "in him all things hold together." This is echoed in Hebrews 1:3 which says Jesus is the one "sustaining all things by his powerful word."

To imagine the Creator and sustainer of everything created is less than God Almighty is a flight of indoctrinated fantasy.

Further the idea that Trinitarians who believe in one God (as defined in the creeds) are polytheists is ironic. The JW's openly admit they believe there is an Almighty God, and a Mighty God-pure polytheism.
---Warwick on 2/10/13


You want a name, know this first!

Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled, and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Peace
---TheSeg on 2/9/13


God's name in the NT- Ruben

The (non-JW) American Bible Society's Research Department:

"Recent manuscript discoveries have shown that the Tetragrammaton... was used in some Greek manuscripts..."


The (non-JW) Journal of Biblical Literature (Vol. 79, pp. 111-118)-

Dr. Kahle surveyed the accumulating evidence regarding the use of the divine name among the Jews and concluded: "All Greek translations of the Bible made by Jews for Jews in pre-Christian times must have used, as the name of God, the Tetragrammaton in Hebrew characters and not [Kyrios], or abbreviations of it, such as we find in the Christian [copies of the Septuagint]."
---scott on 2/9/13


'NO Greek NT use the word Jehova at all'- Ruben.

No Greek NT used the word Jesus either. How do you know whether writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures didn't use God's name YHWH? Have you got the original writings of the Greek scriptures? No you haven't. You cannot say for any certainty that they didn't use God's name YHWH.

'Where is the prove?'... what that translators from the 4th century started removing God's name? The Bible you're holding.

Why when God's name in the form of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton YHWH is found without dispute in the Hebrew text does your Bible not contain God's name anywhere in the Hebrew scriptures? Evidence trinitarian translators wanted it removed.
---David8318 on 2/9/13


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'And if the WTS is going out of thier way to say the word 'LORD' in the NT is Jehova than be consistent!'- Ruben.

You're missing the point. Its not about being consistent. Your quote from WTS says: 'the translator has the right to render the word Ky'rios as Jehovah wherever the divine name appeared in the Hebrew original'.

So its not a question of consistently swapping 'Lord' for 'Jehovah' everytime 'Lord' appears. Its where 'Lord' has been deliberately substituted for God's name where YHWH originally appeared. The NWT has every right to restore God's name whenever it appeared in the original Hebrew text. That includes when Greek writers quoted from the Hebrew- for example Paul quoting Joel 2:32 at Romans 10:13.
---David8318 on 2/9/13


David8318, John 1:1 doesn't promote polytheism, though I know why you use the rhetoric. When JWs die they will meet the god in whom they believe shed blood for them, for they don't believe in the precious blood of Deity but of some creature's blood that is no more precious than that of bulls or goats (altogether now,) "which can never take away sins", for how could the real Jesus have purchased men for God (Rev 5:9) if He were not the Word-made-flesh (Deity)? Remember what I told you: If you believe that this creature-jesus laid down his life for you, then it is to him whom you owe your life, and not God, for God would have sacrificed nothing more than the time to create another creature. God sacrificed His Son, not a Pinocchio.
---John_II on 2/9/13


"NO Greek NT use the word Jehova at all."- Ruben

Actually Ruben...I'm not sure if there is a Greek manuscript that doesn't use the divine name.

The divine name appears in its abbreviated form in the Greek Scriptures at Revelation 19:1, 3, 4, 6, it is embedded in the expression Alleluia, or Hallelu-jah. This expression literally means Praise Jah, you people! Jah is a contraction of the name Jehovah.

It's an abbreviation that can be found throughout the OT as well.

PS 68:4:

"Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him." KJV
---scott on 2/9/13


'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God'- christan.

Another polytheist rendering of John 1:1. Christan believes not only is 'the Word God', but that the Word 'was with God'. Christan has 2 God's at John 1:1. Like Ruben "they" both apparently are Almighty God.

John 1:1, 'theos en ho logos', or 'god was the word'. Singular predicate noun occuring before the verb- the noun describes the verb. Thus, in the case of 'theos en ho logos', 'theos' describes 'ho logos'. It doesn't identify it as the God it is with.

Therefore, 'theos en ho logos' is correctly translated, 'the Word was divine'- Godspeed, 'a god was the Word'- Benjamin Wilson. These renderings avoid polytheism.
---David8318 on 2/9/13


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Christian, Still trying to "slick it over" us with that archaic "thought it not robbery" verse from the KJV.
You really need to up-date your theology!
---1st_cliff on 2/9/13


David8318 * . The NWT restores the Divine Name YHWH (Jehovah) where the Hebrew Tetragrammaton YHWH appears. The NWT has every right o do that.

NO Greek NT use the word Jehova at all.
And if the WTS is going out of thier way to say the word 'LORD' in the NT is Jehova than be consistent!

David8318 * From the 4th century onward, at the time the trinitarian apostasy began, God's name was being removed from translations even though YHWH appeared in the Hebrew. Of course, because God's personal name doesn't sit right with the trinity doctrine.

Where is the prove?
---Ruben on 2/9/13


'but not one manuscript has been found proving their claim!'- Ruben.

Manuscripts are not the original writings. Can Ruben prove God's name- YHWH, was NOT in the the original Greek texts? JW's believe writers of the Greek scriptures would have included God's name YHWH in their original writings.

Paul for example quoted Joel 2:32, as I've previously posted. Paul either had a Hebrew scroll, or he could have quoted from the Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures- the Septuagint (LXX). In both cases, God's name YHWH appears at Joel 2:32. Even LXX has God's name in the Hebrew characters YHWH (fragments exist today).

So why would Paul not have used God's name YHWH at Romans 10:13?
---David8318 on 2/9/13


From the 4th century onward, at the time the trinitarian apostasy began, God's name was being removed from translations even though YHWH appeared in the Hebrew. Of course, because God's personal name doesn't sit right with the trinity doctrine.
---David8318 on 2/9/1

David if that is true than I have a few questions for you:

1) Are there any manuscripts of the Greek New Testament which contains the name YHWH?

2) Can you prove using your interlinear Greek NT where it shows you the name YHWH?

3) Did not the WTS start using the name Jehova in the early 1920's?
---Ruben on 2/9/13


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"JW's are not polytheists, unlike Ruben who wants to believe Jesus is Jehovah and who believes "they are equal in nature as Almighty God". David8318

Still having problems acknowledging Christ is God? Let the Bible help you, so that you won't need to blow up your own brains about Christ's deity.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh... Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God." John 1:1,14, Philippians 2:5,6

Still cannot believe? Well, there's a special place reserved for such unbelievers.
---christan on 2/9/13


==Yahweh is a stone of stumbling according to Isaiah 8:14 and St Peter quotes the passage at 1 Peter 2:8 he tells us the stone of stumbling (Yahweh) is Jesus Christ.==

And remember St. Simeon's prophecy in Luke 1: "This child shall be set for the rise AND FALL of many....."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/9/13


David, I want to hear you loud and clear,
"who do you say Jesus Christ is?" Since you feel you have figured it all out, why don't you tell us and give Scripture.
---Mark_V. on 2/9/13


'One- the Greek NT never use the word Jehova!'- Ruben.

We're talking about the original Hebrew, not the Greek NT. The quote reads, 'the translator has the right to render the word Ky'rios as Jehovah wherever the divine name appeared in the Hebrew original'. Apostates don't want the name 'YHWH' seen at all. So they substituted YHWH for 'LORD' (Adonaj) instead. The NWT restores the Divine Name YHWH (Jehovah) where the Hebrew Tetragrammaton YHWH appears. The NWT has every right o do that.

From the 4th century onward, at the time the trinitarian apostasy began, God's name was being removed from translations even though YHWH appeared in the Hebrew. Of course, because God's personal name doesn't sit right with the trinity doctrine.
---David8318 on 2/9/13


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ruben, that is one thing wrong with the world today. men keep changing things, leave God out and then blame God for 9-11. everyone ask, where is God? I said we ran him out of our country. no one has the right to change the words of God. can't you see what is happening with the statement saying translators have the right to change the name of God?
---shira4368 on 2/8/13


\\"Who do you say that He is? Talking about Jesus Christ."
"Simon Peter answered and said, "You are "The Christ, the Son of the living God." Mat. 16:16 MarkV, I echo that statement.
---joseph on 2/8/13\\

Well put, y ou all.

And you are not the only one who said this.

Though, obviously, one verse from the Gospels doesn't exhaust the subject. I don't know if anyone ever said it did.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/8/13


David8318 * 'the translator has the right to render the word Ky'rios- Ruben

What's wrong with that!? The NWT has every right to replace God's name!

One- the Greek NT never use the word Jehova!

Two- WTS claims that the name Jehova was in the NT but was 'removed' but not one manuscript has been found proving their claim!

Three-If St. Paul or St. Peter or even Jesus himself was not recorded as using the name YHWH, it must not be all that important for us to use it today.


David8318 * Inconsistent? Paul at Romans 14:7-9 is not quoting from the Hebrew scriptures. Thus, 'lord' at Ro.14:9 is properly applied to Christ.

Paul also did not use the name Jehova in that scripture!
---Ruben on 2/8/13


He is the body of God, not just the body.
But the fullness of the body of God!

And we are members of that body.
But God has placed the members in that body as he has seen fit!
So when those that say they hear, tell those that say they see.
Because we don't see the things you see, and you don't hear the things we say we cannot be of the same body!

But when the body is wounded, doesn't the whole body, try to heal it?
And if only the foot is hurt, shouldn't the whole body walk slower?

No part of the body is complete without the rest of the body.
Rev_5:6 stood a Lamb as it had been slain
Peace
---TheSeg on 2/8/13


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Ruben is on a crusade to promote polytheism and convert others to polytheism. A proper pagan protagonist.
---David8318 on 2/7/13

Then Paul, Peter and John are all quilty of polytheism..

Psalm 68:18 speaks of Yahweh as `ascending on high taking gifts in men. We see St Paul quotes this passage in Ephesians 4:7-10 and applies it to the Ascension of Jesus Christ.

Yahweh is a stone of stumbling according to Isaiah 8:14 and St Peter quotes the passage at 1 Peter 2:8 he tells us the stone of stumbling (Yahweh) is Jesus Christ.

Must be why scripture tells us , "No one can say: Jesus is Lord (Yahweh) , except by the Holy Spirit. Wonder why it stagger the human mind to call Jesus 'LORD' and asking help from the HS!
---Ruben on 2/8/13


'Fact is they did not change (Ro.14:9) because it would violate their theology!'- Ruben.

Of course it would violate theology. JW's are not polytheists, unlike Ruben who wants to believe Jesus is Jehovah and who believes "they are equal in nature as Almighty God". How many Almighty God's does Ruben want!?

'the translator has the right to render the word Ky'rios as Jehovah wherever the divine name appeared in the Hebrew original'- Ruben

What's wrong with that!? The NWT has every right to replace God's name!

Inconsistent? Paul at Romans 14:7-9 is not quoting from the Hebrew scriptures. Thus, 'lord' at Ro.14:9 is properly applied to Christ.
---David8318 on 2/8/13


"Jesus asked this same question and the answer was "You are the Christ Son of the living God" 1stCliff

That was Simon Peter respond to Christ in the flesh standing before him. Now, the main question would be - is Jesus Christ God?

"But let your communication be, Yea, yea, Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
---christan on 2/8/13


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