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Not Under The Law

Does the expression "not under the law" mean freedom from the penalty of transgressing the law or freedom to break the law?

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 ---jerry6593 on 2/9/13
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I am Ok with those who accuse me of keeping, and teaching the law of God. I am OK with those who are opposed to the law of God

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Lots of people call themselves christian, God makes it very clear, that those who do not teach the law and the testimony have no light in them

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

I am OK with being accused of keeping and teaching the law of God.

Revelation 14:12 the saints are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

AND THAT IS FRANCIS
---francis on 2/16/13


lee,elee,maryg,etc.: All the out of context, twisted, obscure texts in the world will not get you out of the predicament that YOU are NOT under the New Covenant because you do not have "The Law" written on your heart, and because you are anti-Israel! Face it Lee, you are at odds with yourself as well as the Bible.


---jerry6593 on 2/16/13


Nana //Luke 6:47_48 "Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
---
If you build you house on jesus the solid rock then you will not fail. However, some think that we should not walk by faith in Christ seeking His guidance in all things, but instead live by a list of ethical rules. Such was the fault of the Pharisees and Sabbaterians even today.
---e.lee7537 on 2/16/13


Luke 6:47_48 "Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock."
No choice, must do-must build. Apparently you opt out of the advice?

2 Peter 2:22 "But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again, and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
Feel free to eat your own junk or feed it to some unsuspecting poor soul. There is no strenght or substance to your rhetoric.
---Nana on 2/15/13


//The which of the 2 concepts -imputed righteousness or imparted righteousness, do you really believe?
---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13
BOTH

Yes, I can see that you are really more Roman Catholic than you like to admit.

Roman Catholic theology is that one must strive to avoid purgatory by works of the law.

yes, Nana, you really need to straighten your steps as well as it is obvious you have little or no understanding of the basic principles of the gospel. The just live by faith in Christ and in His sacrifice on the Cross which is totally sufficient. Sorry gal but we are not saved by raising ourselves up on our own bootstraps.
\
---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13




Francis Where are the Sabbath keepers? You know that ones that brought Christ to the Cross.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow, and continued his speech until midnight.

Notice that believers gathered on the 1st day of the week to break bread. It is totally foolish to believe that believers could do such a thing in a Jewish synagogue.

Sorry ignoramus but you have zero support from either the Scripture or from early church history for your belief system. Adventism, as you refuse to acknowledge was birthed in the religious radicalism of the early 1800s. And today followers are just as nave.
---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13


James 4:8 "Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners, and purify your hearts, ye double minded."

Habakkuh 2:4 "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith."

Luke 3:10_18 "... And many other things in his exhortation preached he unto the people." The way of righteousness,

Gods angel to John's father, "Luke 1:17 "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

eel, straighten your footsteps.
---Nana on 2/15/13


The which of the 2 concepts -imputed righteousness or imparted righteousness, do you really believe?
---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13
BOTH

God not only credits us with his righteousness, he gives us strength to overcome sin

Ephesians 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man,

JUSTIFICATION is the imputing of his righteousness
SANCTIFICATION is the imparting of his righteousness, the strength to overcome sin
---francis on 2/15/13


"Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."
---francis on 2/15/13

Francis, I have ask before if you have PERFECTLY kept the law SINCE the day you received Christ. You still have not answered.

No doubt your answer is NO.

And just ONE offense makes you guilty of ALL the law, James 2:10. Just ONE offense means your NOT a doer of the law.

And as ONLY PAST sin was remitted at the cross, Rom 3:25, where does that leave francis?

According to Francis' false gospel, and using his own words, it's, "NO, NO, NO" for salvation due to him being guilty of ALL the law AFTER he received Christ. Francis is NOT a doer of the law.
---Haz27 on 2/15/13


---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

WHY NOT NEXT DAY?

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

WHERE ARE THE SUNDAY PREACHERS?

Hebrews 4:4 And God did rest the seventh day from all his works... he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,
Isaiah 58:13 the sabbath, my holy day,
---francis on 2/15/13




\\NOT TRUE AT ALL: Francis believes in righteousness by faith:
---
The which of the 2 concepts -imputed righteousness or imparted righteousness, do you really believe?

We can really have no righteousness of our own in the eyes of God. Scripture tells us any righteousness we may have through our own efforts is filthy rags. Isa. 64:6

If you believe in imparted righteousness then truly you will have grounds to boast and the right to judge others who may not measure up to a standard based on law instead of faith.

What you really have is an unscriptural combo of faith mixed with works for your salvation. In which case our eternal salvation is not wholly of God but to some extent depends upon acquired righteousness.
---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13


francis is obsessed with the law.
---shira4368 on 2/14/13

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth,..and he shall think to change times and laws:

That Sunday Law that are try to establish, is it from God or it is what the beast tried to change?

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Are you the least ( LOW LIFE) or the greatest?
---francis on 2/15/13


//IMPARTED RIGHTEOUSNESS is the righteousness given to us by God when we do what is lawful and right. It is based on the character of Jesus in us (CHRIST IN YOU)
---
yes, - the Holy Spirit can create in the believer Christ-like character (or holiness) but this holiness is acquired through abiding in Christ, not in obedience to selected OT laws.

Exactly on what basis is one declared to be righteous?

Romans 1:17 For in it (the gospel) the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, The righteous shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:11-12 Now it is evident that no one is justified (declared righteous) before God by the law, for The righteous shall live by faith.
---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13


What Francis really believes is that one becomes righteous in the sight of God by observing selected Old Covenant laws.
---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13
NOT TRUE AT ALL: Francis believes in righteousness by faith:

IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS is given when we believe his promise by faith. It is the perfect life / righteousness of Jesus credited to us.

IMPARTED RIGHTEOUSNESS is the righteousness given to us by God when we do what is lawful and right. It is based on the character of Jesus in us ( CHRIST IN YOU)
---francis on 1/20/12

Francis also believes:
Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
---francis on 2/15/13


---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13
Law as school master teaches:

Earhly sanctuary >Hebrews 8:2 the sanctuary, the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Earthly high priest> Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest

Lamb > John 1:36 looking upon Jesus, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Light > John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Veil > Hebrews 10:20 that is to say, his flesh,

Bread > John 6:48 I am that bread of life.

Water > John 4:13 , Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again

Now that christ came, no need for the sanctuary services ( school master)
We no longer make sacrifices, but God's people still keep sabbath
---francis on 2/15/13


Sabbaterians being modern day Pharisees insist that the Christian heed the Old Covenant laws but they fail to understand that the believer is not under the Old Covenant law with its 600+ laws.

Clearly if the Sabbath was required of believers in Christ, there would not be any necessity for a New Covenant - a covenant that does not even hint of any command that states we must observe any day as holy.

Adventists, simply cannot find any support in the New Testament nor in early church history for observance of the Sabbath. What they follow is not the God of the New Covenant but the rantings of olde Ellen White - one of many many many visionaries of a extreme religious radicalism of the early 1800s.

Reference: D. M. Canright
---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13


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//Francis is obsessed with the law. his whole salvation is based on the 10 commandments. I have never in my life seen as much written about 1 subject as is written here about the law. ---shira4368


What Francis really believes is that one becomes righteous in the sight of God by observing selected Old Covenant laws.

But what does scripture really teach?

Galatians 2:16b we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified (declared righteous) BY FAITH IN CHIRST and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

(3:12) But the law is not of faith, rather The one who does them shall live by them.

All Adventists really want is to promote their own denomination
---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13


Jerry//All the out of context, twisted, obscure texts in the world will not get you out of the predicament that YOU are NOT ....blab blab blab.

The following verse clearly explains your delimina.

"In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." Corinthians 4:4

What God has written onto believers hearts is love towards others as love fulfills the law - something Sabbaterians are willfully ignorant of.

Stupid is as stupid does! And such are those poor souls that follow olde Ellen White.
---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13


Shall we break the Law because God is withholding punishment?" Certainly not!

Agree but once we are born again spiritually in Christ, we are under the law of Christ, not the Old Covenant law. 1 Cor. 9:21f

If we sin, we then go against that new nature that God creates in us (2 Cor. 5:17)and find ourselves being disciplined by Him. Hebrews 12.6f

John, Jerry, Francis -You still refuse to address what Galatians teaches that the law was but a schoolmaster UNTIL we could be justified (declared righteous) by faith in Christ.

(3:24-25) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
---e.lee7537 on 2/15/13


lee,elee,maryg,etc.: All the out of context, twisted, obscure texts in the world will not get you out of the predicament that YOU are NOT under the New Covenant because you do not have "The Law" written on your heart, and because you are anti-Israel! Face it Lee, you are at odds with yourself as well as the Bible.



---jerry6593 on 2/15/13


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We're not under law we're under grace. Grace is the fact that God does not punish us for breaking His Law. Since grace is the absence of punishment then law that we are no longer under is not the Ten Commandment Law, but rather, the law that Moses wrote which specified the punishment for breaking the Commandments. The Ten Commandments were written by the finger of God, the law regarding punishment was written by the hand of Moses. The Ten Commandments were placed inside the ark of the covenant the law of Moses was placed outside the ark. Here is the question, "Shall we sin because we are no longer under the law?" in other words, "Shall we break the Law because God is withholding punishment?" Certainly not!
---John
---francis on 2/14/13


---shira4368 on 2/14/13

The whole bible is a story about a people ( starting with Adam) who forsook the law / commandments of God, and a God that continues to go after them with love.


Exodus 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,

The reason Jesus died:
Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for OUR TRANSGRESSIONS, he was bruised for OUR INIQUITIES:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then shira4368? Shall we continue to break the law of God, that grace may abound?
---francis on 2/14/13


---shira4368 on 2/14/13

The whole bible is a story about a people ( starting with Adam) who forsook the law / commandments of God, and a God that continues to go after them with love.


Exodus 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,

The reason Jesus died:
Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for OUR TRANSGRESSIONS, he was bruised for OUR INIQUITIES:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then shira4368? Shall we continue to break the law of God, that grace may abound?
---francis on 2/14/13


We're not under law we're under grace. Grace is the fact that God does not punish us for breaking His Law. Since grace is the absence of punishment then law that we are no longer under is not the Ten Commandment Law, but rather, the law that Moses wrote which specified the punishment for breaking the Commandments. The Ten Commandments were written by the finger of God, the law regarding punishment was written by the hand of Moses. The Ten Commandments were placed inside the ark of the covenant the law of Moses was placed outside the ark. Here is the question, "Shall we sin because we are no longer under the law?" in other words, "Shall we break the Law because God is withholding punishment?" Certainly not!
---John on 2/14/13


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How about this one, "Shall we continue to sin because we are under grace?" In other words, "Shall we continue breaking God's Law because He's not going to punish us?" Certainly not!
---John on 2/14/13


francis is obsessed with the law. his whole salvation is based on the 10 commandments. I have never in my life seen as much written about 1 subject as is written here about the law.
---shira4368 on 2/14/13


jerry6593 //Pro 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

True but you willfully forget that the function of the law is to lead us to faith in Christ.

Galatians 3:24-25 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Strongly sugggest you listen to the words of Jesus instead of your false prophetess!

No matter how hard you try to observe the law, at the end of the day, you will still be a lawbreaker.

James 2:10 if you trespass any of the law, you are held guilty of breaking all of them.
---e.lee7537 on 2/14/13


//The Gentles manifested a moral principle at work in their hearts, because when they broke their own ethical code, their conscience would prick them and cause them to feel guilt...

Romans 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Poor Jerry, Francis and others that strive to keep the OT sabbath but really cannot, desperately want to believe that the Gentiles also observed the Sabbath.

Poor uneducated SDAs simply will never get it all together since they are willfully ignorant.
---e.le7537 on 2/14/13


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Pro 28:9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.




---jerry6593 on 2/14/13


francis//Those who live by faith DO keep the law.

Those that live by faith live according to God's Spirit and thus keep the spirit behind the law.

However those that attempt to keep the law cannot if they are not of God's Spirit.

Romans 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

Usually those that harp Sabbath keeping are of the flesh, not of the Spirit.
---e.lee7537 on 2/14/13


The law written in their hearts+++their conscience also bearing witness. The Gentles manifested a moral principle at work in their hearts, because when they broke their own ethical code, their conscience would prick them and cause them to feel guilt...What they did! excuse themselves by making a defense for their actions. But Jews and Gentiles [unconverted] must face a day of judgment with God, THE GREATEST JUDGE OF ALL TIME. "when the secrets of men are judged by the Lord Jesus Christ" according to the truth of the gospel preached by Paul. [Romans 2:13-16.]
---pat on 2/14/13


what was the commandments in the new testament? matthew 19 describes the law. in vs 18-19-speaks of the law. then in vs 20 God told him to sell everything he had and give to the poor then thou shalt have treasures in heaven: and come and follow me. that sounds pretty clear to me.
---shira4368 on 2/14/13


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"For it is not those who hear law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13
---Theodore_A._Jones on 2/13/13


1Cr 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Why does Paul write that we are to be under the law to Christ if that is being under a curse?

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

We are justified by Faith alone. But we are not to live in sin which is transgression of the law. See I john.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/13/13


To live by the law brings upon you a curse.
---e.lee7537 on 2/12/13

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we TRANGRESS THE LAW / NOT KEEP THE HOLY COMMANDMENTS/ sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

e.lee7537 and mark_V are dead wrong AS USUAL

Those who live by faith DO keep the law

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
---francis on 2/13/13


Bro. elee, thank you for the passages you gave. I heard someone here say, that satan makes others sin, but he doesn't. Man convinces themself to sin. They cannot blame satan for their actions.
They commit the action. What I see from francis and Jerry is that in order to protect Saturday Sabbath, they go to great extremes to speak of the law, the Ten Commandments. And by doing so they are convincing themselves more and more that their hearts are already darkened so bad, there might not be a way back out of the curse to the Spirit of the Law. No one can stop them. Saturday Sabbath is so important to them, that they will never be free from the law.
---Mark_V. on 2/13/13


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lee,elee,maryg,etc.: All the out of context, twisted, obscure texts in the world will not get you out of the predicament that YOU are NOT under the New Covenant because you do not have "The Law" written on your heart, and because you are anti-Israel! Face it Lee, you are at odds with yourself as well as the Bible.



---jerry6593 on 2/13/13


elee, thanks for the truth. we use to have a guy on cn that thought he was perfect and he was rewriting the bible to suit himself. his name was eloy. I ask him why he thought he could inprove on God's Word and he never answered me. same with keeping the law. what is so unique about all this is God said if you look on a woman with eyes of adultery you have committed adultery already in your heart. the commandment in the new testament is love one another.I am glad you can see the truth. thanks
---shira4368 on 2/12/13


Romans 1:17 "For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

Habakuh 2:4_5 "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:..."

What then? Seems as only "the just shall live by his faith.". Those with crooked feet can't, mr. eel.
---Nana on 2/12/13


To live by the law brings upon you a curse.
---e.lee7537 on 2/12/13

Exodus 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee

Proverbs 4:4 He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.


Psalms 1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD, and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Psalms 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season, his leaf also shall not wither, and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

WHAT A CURSE!


Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil,
---francis on 2/12/13


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BEWARE OF THOSE WHO WOULD TURN YOU AWAY FROM GOD'S HOLY COMMANDMENTS

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise you liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption SIN): for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage (SIN).

2 Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein (IN SIN), and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
---francis on 2/12/13


//It is somewhat ironic Christians would claim to be under the New Covenant... and yet be free to disobey the Jewish Commandments

Either you live by the law or to live by faith.

To live by the law brings upon you a curse.

Ga 3:10 ... it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in ALL THINGS which are written in the book of the law to do them.

If you really knew yourself you really "continueth not in ALL THINGS which are written in the book of the law..."

what does scripture teach?

Gal. 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Suggest you find a church that teaches God's word.
---e.lee7537 on 2/12/13


--e.lee7537 on 2/12/13

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

He who said do not kill, said ALL TEN COMMANDMENTS and it was not Moses is was God

Deuteronomy 4:12 And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude, only [ye heard] a voice.

Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, [even] ten commandments, and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
---francis on 2/12/13


frances, I think I have discussed this with you many many times and I really tired.I never said one word against the 10 commandments. what I said was they did not save me. they don't make me perfect. we can obey the law but we aren't saved by the law. in the new testament says the greatest commandment is love.
---shira4368 on 2/12/13


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//every single NT writer preaches the Ten COmmandments. How do you feel about that?

What I feel about that is that you have again been misled by your false prophetess. Can you find a single verse written by the NT writers that preaches all the 10 commandments?

No, what we do find is that our sin and guilt are imputed to Christ, and His perfect law-keeping and suffering are imputed to us - what is ours become His and what is His becomes ours.

Sorry that you have been taught that keeping the law is the means by which you are saved.
---e.lee7537 on 2/12/13


and yet be "free" to disobey the "Jewish" Commandments.
---jerry6593 on 2/12/13

It is not that we want to be free of the old covenant, we are told that we are free by Scripture.

Rom 7:4 "Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God"

See. We are clearly told that have died to the Law by being joined with Christ in death through salvation in Him. And now that we are joined to Christ, we are obliged to obey Him.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/12/13


You are correct
//It is somewhat ironic that Christians would claim to be under the New Covenant (which made was with Israel)//
some must think they are Israel or have replaced Israel. Scipture is plain the covenants were and will be made with Israel
---michael_e on 2/12/13


It is somewhat ironic that Christians would claim to be under the New Covenant (which made was with Israel) and yet be "free" to disobey the "Jewish" Commandments. It is particularly so when they don't have "The Law" written in their heart which is the defining characteristic of the New Covenant.


---jerry6593 on 2/12/13


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shira4368 on 2/11/13

every single NT writer preaches the Ten COmmandments. How do you feel about that?

Do you feel that they should have focused on something else?
---francis on 2/12/13


Mark V, I know what the criticism was. Shall I outrightly come out and rebuttal "HYPOCRITE!" "TWO FACED MAN?" Instead I played it down. I know he is also a sinner not following the Bible just like all us are. Fact is that not one of us keep the Bible. It does not change the Bible. Fact is we all hope in cheap grace. All paid. All done. We do nothing. Fact is argument will continue. These arguments go on for centuries. What is the worthwhileness? Everyone has their champion. That is why the church is so divided. Yep, we are fault-finders, but this is a blog. People are always changing. We are not the standard of truth. The Bible is to be the standard of truth. But who on earth follows it? Just partial.
---bike on 2/12/13


shira4368 on 2/11/13

Have you ever read in any of my post that I was made perfect by keeping the TEN commandments?
---francis on 2/12/13


"Have you ever in any of my post read where I, any bible writer, or anyone else said that we are saved by keeping the ten commandments?
---francis on 2/11/13

Correct, you have not said we're saved by keeping the law.

BUT, you have said we're condemned by not keeping it.
You say "No, No, No" for salvation for anyone who disobeys the law.

The false gospel you preach is so similar to that of the Pharisees that you might almost be mistaken for one.

And Jesus warned us to beware of the leaven (doctrine of works) of the pharisees, Matt 16:12.

A little leaven leavens the whole lump, Gal 5:9.

Beware the leaven of Francis.
---Haz27 on 2/11/13


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oh but francis, it is totally the opposite that you preach. the bible is our roadmap. I never said the 10 commandments were bad. I said we don't get saved by the 10 commandments. I am not anti-commandments. I am not perfect and neither are you, even tho you think you are. my war is with principalities of unseen things.
---shira4368 on 2/11/13


bike, I believe when Christan told you, "spoken like a true pharisees" he was not talking about the resurrection, but of their legalistic views, clean on the outside but very corrupt in the inside, for they were not converted to Christ the reason they wanted to kill Him. And by the way, they wanted to kill Him because He claimed to be God. Paul on the other hand was a converted Pharisee. Who believed in the Lord by faith. Do not confuse the two. Nicodemus was also never mentioned saved. In fact the whole nation of Israel has never been saved, only a few individuals have been saved.
---Mark_V. on 2/11/13


In my OT class the teacher brought up a good point. The Israelites agreed to the old covenant before having the Law.
---Scott1 on 2/11/13

1/2 right
Exodus 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

So they had laws and commandments before sinai

What they did not have before Sanai was the sanctuary, and the levites as priest,
---francis on 2/11/13


In my OT class the teacher brought up a good point. The Israelites agreed to the old covenant before having the Law. Thus no one has ever been under the Law except those that tried to find salvation in the Law (Galatians). Therefore salvation has never been based on the law but love. The reason we follow the law is because we want to be pleasing to God and avoid the consequences. Physical laws have an immediate effect. Try to ignore the law of gravity. Spiritual laws do not have an immediate effect but do have consquences. For example, do not take a sabbath but work 24/7 and you will make your self sick physically.
---Scott1 on 2/11/13


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---shira4368 on 2/10/13
Have you ever in any of my post read where I, any bible writer, or anyone else said that we are saved by keeping the ten commandments?

Yet although we are not saved by keeping the ten commandments every writer in the NT except for Jude, preaches keeping the ten commandments

Here is what your problem is:
You have no issues with 9/10 of the commandments. But being a baptist, the 4th commandment poses a problem for you. You know that as a follower of Jesus you are called to obey all ten commandments, if you were to go by the bible, you coudl no longer be a baptist

You should look into the Seventh Day Baptist Church. They have many baptist doctrine but keep all TEN COMMANDMENTS
---francis on 2/11/13


"Spoken like a TRUE PHARISEE!" Thanks for the compliment, Christan. A true Pharisee believes in the resurrection. Paul is a Pharisee. Nicodemus was Pharisee. Both believed in Christ. Why not just throw out what Paul wrote? If there is no resurrection, Paul said the believer is most to be pitied. Why not eat, drink, make merry for tomorrow we die? Why not live it up? Moses chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a short time. (Hebrew 11:25) Since Christ did all the work and you do not need to wear a chasity belt, why not live it up? DEBT PAID. God wants us to be happy. If I speak like a TRUE Pharisee, you speak like a TRUE (?)(babe in Christ?)
---bike on 2/10/13


There is a distinction between laws made by man and laws made by God.

The commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: Love your neighbor as yourself.
(Ro 13:9) GOD forbid we do that.

Do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. (Mt 7:12) GOD forbid. We're not under such commands anymore.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and with mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.
(Mt 22:37-40) GOD forbid we do that. WE'RE NOT UNDER THE LAW.
---aaron on 2/10/13


francis, you can preach the 10 commandments forever, but we aren't saved by them. you honestly believe you are perfect because of the 10 commandments? do you really believe you can't sin? you are deceiving yourself in that belief.
---shira4368 on 2/10/13


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A common mistake (which is from Satan) is to say that if a Christian does not obey/keep/follow the Ten Commandments, that they are not saved.

This mistake is taught by those who desire to be under the law. Such are in spiritual fornication with Hagar/the law, Gal 4:24, 1Cor 5.

These persons follow the ministry of death/condemnation (which was "done away" with, 2Cor 3:7) saying "No, No, No" for salvation, to anyone who fails obedience.
These same persons also fail perfect obedience to the law (James 2:10) and thus they condemn themselves.

BUT those not under the law, but under grace instead, they cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law. God has justified them, Rom 8:33
---Haz27 on 2/10/13


A common mistake ( which is from Satan) is to say that if someone obeys / keeps/ follows the Ten Commandments that they are under the law.

The Bible refutes that argument strongly: What then? shall we sin( NOT KEEP THE TEN COMMANDMENTS), because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Romans 6:15

Does honouring you father and you mother place you under the law?

If you do not commit adultery are you then under the law?
---francis on 2/10/13


---christan on 2/10/13

Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at,

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another,

The Gentiles did not know the sacrificial system which taught the gospel, which is what " under the law" means.
---francis on 2/10/13


Christan, But, did you read the very first part of those Verses you just quoted? They say "ALL, therefore, whatsoever they bid you OBSERVE, that OBSERVE and DO..." You have taken those Verses out of context in order to defend the false doctrine of OSAS. Those Verses were not meant for defending any false doctrine! You just quoted that "Whatsoever they (THE PHARISEES) bid you, OBSERVE..." Okay, Christan, that we shall do! That, which the "pharisee" (bike) bid us, THAT we shall observe! :-D
---Gordon on 2/10/13


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"WE HAVE A LICENSE TO SIN, some will think. ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED. "New creation in Christ"? I see "The Old Adam". Their glory is in their shame. (Philippians 3:19). Let us do evil that good may result (Romans 3:8)" bike

WOW! Spoken like a true Pharisee!

"All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do, but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments."
---christan on 2/10/13


"Because the gentiles had not known the law, they were never under the law." francis

You must be kidding right? Who absolved them of the curse of the law? You? Remember what Paul declared? "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" - I'm most definite this includes the gentiles, like it or not.

The first law was already given in Genesis by God to Adam and I know I don't need to remind you what happened then. You seem to have the impression that God is still testing mankind as he did with Adam in Genesis.
---christan on 2/10/13


Does the expression "not under the law" mean freedom from the penalty of transgressing the law or freedom to break the law?

It has come to mean that.

Jesus said "until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law." (Matthew 5:18 and Luke 16:17) But we say it's already expired.

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. (Romans 3:31)

WE HAVE A LICENSE TO SIN, some will think. ONCE SAVED, ALWAYS SAVED. "New creation in Christ"? I see "The Old Adam".

Their glory is in their shame. (Philippians 3:19)

Let us do evil that good may result (Romans 3:8)
---bike on 2/10/13


"They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality." (Jude 1:4)

"They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravityfor a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
(2 Peter 2:19 NIV)

They promise that these men will be free. But they themselves are chained to sin. For a man is chained to anything that has power over him. (2 Peter 2:19 NLV)

They promise freedom, but they themselves are slaves of sin and corruption. For you are a slave to whatever controls you. (2 Peter 2:19 NLT)

While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption.
(2 Peter 2:19 KJV)
---aaron on 2/10/13


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Jerry those in Christ are not under the law. Under as "in the position or state of bearing, supporting, sustaining, or enduring" it. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made [the believer] free from the law of [both] sin and death. The Father has had compassion on [believers], And [has] subdue their iniquities, casting all their sins Into the depths of the sea and will not remember them any longer. For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. "Behold! The Lamb of God [has taken] away the sin of the world! He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin." Rom 8:2>.Mic 7:19>Hbr 8:12>2Cr 3:9>Jhn 1:29
---Josef on 2/10/13


Jerry, you know what it means when it is said,
"not under the law" I really do not know why again you bring the law out? Why?
To be not under the law means to not be condemned anymore for breaking it. There is no more condemnation to those in Christ. It does not mean you have freedom from the law and can do what you want. That is what you and francis keep saying. And stop the smoke screen about the law, you want to speak about the Saturday Sabbath, why not get to the point, that is all SDA's want to talk about anyway? All the talk about the law really has nothing to do with why you put the blog.
---Mark_V. on 2/10/13


Rom6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Sin shall not have dominion over you: - It no longer carries the penalty of eternal separation from God.

For ye are not under the law: - not the Jewish Ceremonial Law or the Jewish Civil Law, but rather the Law of Sin and Death. Meaning that breaking of the Moral Law of God no longer results in eternal damnation after the new birth.

but under grace: - meaning that we are now under the Covenant of Grace. We are free from the Law of Sin.

We are now new creatures in Christ and are able to please God and refrain from sin.

Rom6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
---trey on 2/10/13


Because the gentiles had not known the law, they were never under the law.

The Law taught the Gospel. The good news that Christ ( PASSOVER LAMB) would die for our sins, and that Christ was our HIGH PRIEST, and forgave our sins

Gentiles were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, Ephesians 2:12

This law was used to teach Jews and aliens about the promised Messiah

Once Jesus came and died ( FAITH CAME Galatians 3:23 ) this law was nailed to the cross Colossians 2:14 , but the unbelieving Jew continued in this law, even asking that those who accepted Jesus should perform the blood sacrifice of circumcision, which had it's fulfillment in the cross Galatians 5:11
---francis on 2/9/13


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Historically, it is a Jewish reference to Gentiles not under the Mosaic covenant [Law].
---Blogger9211 on 2/9/13


Under the law applies to those who have did not accepted Jesus as saviour. More specifically, it points to those who continue to see the LAW OF MOSES as a law to continue to adhere to until the messiah comes.

Those under the law, continue to practice the condemnation of the law, which is sacrifices of animals, rather than accept the sacrifice of God once and for all

Those under the law, have not yet come to faith in Jesus, they continue to adhere to the law of Moses, not realizing that the law of Moses has been fulfilled in the person of Jesus
---francis on 2/9/13


Oh my goodness what a question! The answer is, "Neither".
---pat on 2/9/13


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