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What Is The Mystery

The Apostle Paul writes:
Eph1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: What is the mystery?

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 ---trey on 2/10/13
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kathr, are you a woman preacher? just wondering.
---shira4368 on 2/21/13


michael_e, the next thing we see in John, the Gospel of GRACE, not Kingdom Law. John 6. See in the beginning the multitude wanted to make Him KING right then, and Jesus went to the other side of the lake to avoid the multitude. He didn't come the first time to be KING.

Then when they did come up to Jesus again, wanting their bellies fed, just like Kingdom Age will be, Jesus confronts them, He says: to eat my flesh and drink my blood. WOW, no such requirements were this for any earthly Kingdom ever. They were offended and left. Jesus compares them to Judas.

To eat my flesh and drink my blood is Jesus was referring to His death and resurrection, meaning to be crucified with Christ, truly a GRACE teaching, not Kingdom Law teaching.
---kathr4453 on 2/21/13


3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures---

---michael_e on 2/20/13


michael_e, questio, both times Paul says according to the scriptures so what scriptures is he referring to, his own letters, or OT scriptures? So if it is according to the OT Scriptures that Jesus would die and rise again, that cannot be "THE" secret that is now revealed.

Since both rely totally on a death and resurrection to fulfill, what THEN is the secret that was kept secret...It's DEEPER than His death and resurrection. THINK!
---kathr4453 on 2/21/13


---michael_e on 2/20/13
Jesus preached: Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Paul: Acts 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house, and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.


1 Corinthians 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.




You bible has holes michael_e
---francis on 2/21/13


michael_e, yes Matthew is to Jews specifically concerning the Kingdom promised in the OT. The Promise of the KING. Yet we know when Jesus first came as a baby, He did not come as OT Prophecy described one as "The King in all His GLORY." Zechariah 12-14. It actually took and had to take his death and resurrection to even fulfill that Prophecy. When Jesus returns IN ALL HIS GLORY, which He left behind, Philippians 2, it will certainly be the Risen Glorified Christ returning to take His earthly throne for 1000 years in Jerulalem, that is earthly Jerusalem. So, if you actually believe that that happened, please show us where this 1000 years came and went.
---kathr4453 on 2/21/13




Trey looks like you need to read a little farther to see what I was answering.
Water baptism is a waste of water and time.
Jesus preached
Matt4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Paul preached
1 Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you,..." 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Trey these messages ain't the same.
---michael_e on 2/20/13


Acts 19:2-4
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Michael_e, it appears Paul was stealing Peter's converts. So, was Peter trying to steal Paul's?, and that why they were warning their people about each others false doctrine? Paul calling the concision DOGS.
---kathr4453 on 2/21/13


michael_e, it looks like you believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation? It also appears that you are clueless as to the Apostle Paul's teachings seeing that you believed his gospel was different than Christ's.
---trey on 2/20/13


Do you actually think paul preached repent and be baptized or did he preach his gospel
---michael_e on 2/20/13
Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, REPENTAActs NCE toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth all men every where to REPENT:
1 Corinthians 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius,

1 Corinthians 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
---francis on 2/20/13


Acts 2:36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel (jew only)that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ."

compare Scripture
Gal.1 3,4a"...from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for our sins,..."

different as day from night
In Peters footsteps the message would be these are the last days, repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and the preaching of the cross is that it was a horrible murder (Acts 2:17, 38, and Acts 5:30).

We would follow the Lords instructions, and the apostles example, by selling all we have and have all things in common (Luke 12:33, Acts 2:45, Acts 4:34).
---michael_e on 2/20/13




Did Paul preach repentance?

While speaking to Gentiles at Mars Hill he clearly said: Though God has overlooked those times of ignorance, he now commands everyone everywhere to repent Act 17:30.

Listen to his plea at Lystra: "Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men, of like nature with you, and we bring you good news, that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them Act 14:15

and his summary at Ephesus: I testified to both Jews and Greeks about repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Act 20:21

This message was the same whether to Jews or non Jews, and it is the same message he preached in every church.
---kathr4453 on 2/20/13


//They all preached right there in Acts, his resurrection//
Acts 2:37 .. "Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost(where is the resurrection)This is what peter preached, repent and be baptized.

Do you actually think paul preached repent and be baptized or did he preach his gospel 1Cor 15:1-4, 1Thess.4:14

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and (repent and be baptized??) thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
---michael_e on 2/20/13


Michael_e, you answered your own question. What would have happened IF they did not Crucify Christ...

No forgiveness of sin. No Kingdom, what so ever.

After Jesus rose from the dead, He spent 40 days explaining all things to them, before ascending into Heaven.

What do you suppose they talked about..Gin Rummy?

They all preached right there in Acts, his resurrection. THEY were WITNESSES to His resurrection, and preached the Gospel. The same Gospel Paul Preached. hat Paul was given was that Jews and Gentiles alike are ONE NEW MAN In Christ, breaking down the wall between them.....not building a wall between them.
---kathr4453 on 2/19/13


Mark you say They just didn't understand completely when and how.
They didn't have a clue.
Luke 18:34 And they understood NONE of these things: and this saying was HID from them, NEITHER KNEW they the things which were spoken
Why was it kept secret?
1 Cor 2:7-8, "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory".
---michael_e on 2/19/13


Michael e, Jesus did tell the disciples He was going to die. Many times in fact. They just didn't understand completely when and how. Even his death was mentioned in the Old Testament of Him coming and dying. Yet so many things Jesus told the disciples and they did not believe. After Pentacost, when the Spirit indwelled all believers, they understood. In Scripture, for our knowledge, Paul explained it better then the others, but they all knew after His death, the real Truth. That is part of the gospel.
---Mark_V. on 2/19/13


Paul, the first to know our Lord paid for our sins through His death and shed blood?

It was secret, until revealed it to Paul.
---michael_e on 2/18/13
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself

Matthew 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

NO PAUL YET
---francis on 2/18/13


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Acts 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, [and] mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

Acts 18:25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord, and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. .
Acts 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto [them], and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

So, did Aquila and Pricilla expound on the Paul's Gospel, or Peter'sGospel, seeing in 1st Corinthians Apollos also taught the Paul's Gospel. So it appears they were STEALING each others converts . How confusing for them.
---kathr4453 on 2/18/13


During his earthly ministry, Jesus came to confirm the promises made to the fathers (Rom 15:8). He taught what was in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms (Luke 24:44).
Filled with the Holy Ghost, Zacharias said Jesus ministry contain what was spoken by his holy prophets, which have been since the world began (Luke 1:70).

After Christs ascension, Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, preached a gospel which they had been speaking since the beginning the gospel of the kingdom (Acts 1:22, Mark 1:14-15). spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets since the world began (Acts 3:21).

Paul claims his message was not revealed to anyone prior It was kept a secret and hid in God (Rom 16:25, Eph 3:9).
---michael_e on 2/18/13


really michael, so when Jesus said THIS is the BLOOD of the covenant which is shed for you, and John the Baptist said Behold the LAMB OF GOD which takes away the sin of the world, .......and WHO said of Jesus, He has come to save us from our sin...

And OT clearly states there is no forgivness of sin without the shedding of BLOOD...

You really can't be so blind here....

And Hebrews, not written by Paul, is so full of BLOOD it makes the Mormons cringe.
---kathr4453 on 2/18/13


Paul, the first to know our Lord paid for our sins through His death and shed blood?

It was secret, until revealed it to Paul.

Matt 16:21-22, Luke 18:33-34, and John 20:9, the 12 didn't know Christ was going to die and resurrect.
Paul received HIS gospel by revelation.
Gal 1:11-12, .."the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."
Eph 6:18-20, "Praying always ... for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the MYSTERY of the GOSPEL for which I am an ambassador in bonds ...." Paul's gospel was a mystery. Not known before God revealed it to him.
---michael_e on 2/18/13


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So michael_e, you still have not answered my question go Paul calling Peter and the other apostles DOGS, in Philippians 3:1 -3...

Was Paul 's words GOD BREATHED? God is CURSING Peter's so called gospel in Philippians, and in Galatians??? Yet you claim this gospel of Peters was ordained by God?
---kathr4453 on 2/18/13


\\Peter how do I get my sins remitted?
Repent (change your mind about who Jesus said he was, (the King Of Israel) And be water baptized\\
---michael_e on 2/17/13


Read Acts 2:5

WHO did Peter preach to?

Your'e the one who's always saying so and so wasn't speaking to such and such, blah blah blah

Peter WAS NOT speaking to unbelievers

Rightly dividing, not merely dividing
---James_L on 2/18/13


1Cor 15:3.. he was seen of Cephas,..
Then PETER taught, Acts 2:38.. Repent, and be baptized ...for the remission of sins,...

Peter how do I get my sins remitted?
Repent (change your mind about who Jesus said he was, (the King Of Israel) And be water baptized (Mark 1:4, Mark 16, Luke 7:30 etc)

Paul doesn't begin with Jesus ministry to the circumcision as Matt-John. He even says he doesn't know Christ after the flesh 2 Cor 5:16
The first thing in Pauls gospel is the last in the four gospels: the death and resurrection of Christ.
Pauls gospel of the grace of God wasn't the kingdom promises to a circumcised people, but the cross itself (1 Cor 1:18, 2:2, 3:10). The first point of Pauls gospel is his death for our sins.
---michael_e on 2/17/13


I think what we NOW see in the OT are things that were certainly alluded to, but not fully revealed until now, after Jesus resurrection.
---kathr4453 on 2/17/13

Very true and in some cased it was only after the death and resurrection that some of these OT scriptures came to light

Psalms 34:20 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.

Psalms 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.


Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

So many truth hidden until his resurrection
---francis on 2/17/13


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Kathr, you and francis should give each other amens. Both of you were kind enough to chose Christ with your own works. Smarter then others who didn't.
---Mark_V. on 2/18/13


1 Corinthians 15
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand,

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
---kathr4453 on 2/17/13


---kathr4453 on 2/17/13
Very good post
I like your post on christ in your ( gentiles)as the mystery

You post are very powerful
keep up the good job
---francis on 2/17/13


Each of the four "gospels" start with the earthly ministry of Jesus to the circumcision and ends with his death and resurrection. This outlines the ministry and message of Peter, John, and the Twelve according to prophecies of Christ.

Their ministries begin with the prophecies and end with their fulfillment in Christ.

However, there is a fifth gospel. Pauls gospel was not copied from Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. It was personally revealed by the Lord (Gal 1:11-12).

As such, Pauls gospel as told in 1 Corinthians 15 is different than the four traditional Gospels. It includes the revelation of the mystery of Christ.
---michael_e on 2/17/13


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Francis, yes markv's total immaturity really is rearing it's ugly head again. Actually I think he is jealous that others CAN have a meaningful mature conversation here without mudslinging.

I have loved this conversation with you.

I think what we NOW see in the OT are things that were certainly alluded to, but not fully revealed until now, after Jesus resurrection.

Who would have ever thought The book of Joshua would have has a NT parallel?

Who would have ever known circumcision on the 8th day was a foreshadowing of that NEW DAY, new creature in Christ, identifying with Christ in death and resurrection...see Colossians 2 parallel to that.
---kathr4453 on 2/17/13


Francis, in the OT, There was no Body of Christ called a Heavenly Body.

In Joshua, the physical land is a type of Christ, who is our land, not physical land, but Spiritual. The ARK, going before, taking 3 days, represents Christ who went before, representing His death and resurrection. We follow..

Jesus said, pick up your cross and FOLLOW ME. That is what we do...follow Him into death and resurrection life. This is what Paul meant, follow me the way I follow Christ.....that I may KNOW HIM, and the fellowship of His sufferings, and the POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION, being made conformable to His death, ....seeking those things ABOVE and not BELOW.

Those who mind earthly things are Enemies OF THE CROSS.
---kathr4453 on 2/17/13


Kathr, you and francis are like
---Mark_V. on 2/17/13

I am sorry that Kathr and francis are speaking way way above your head

You are not yet ready for solid food, keep drinking your milk from your sippy cup

one day you will start teething and them maybe you can eat some solid food
---francis on 2/17/13


-kathr4453 on 2/16/13
Very very powerful post!!

Now about being partakers of His death: OT Partaking of the Lord's death

Exodus 12:43 This is the ordinance of the passover:...In one house shall it be eaten,
1 Cor 5:7 Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

OT on New Creation:
Isaiah 65:17 I create new heavens and a new earth:

OT Passing from death to life:
Daniel 12:13 for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

Psalms 23:6 I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever
---francis on 2/17/13


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Kathr, you and francis are like the blind leading the blind. you argue for free will, your right to chose Christ. Francis on his own works of the law to receive Christ and salvation. You then give (2 Peter 2:1-3) to condemn me. You forgot to read what it says. Who are those who bring heresy? it is those who
"deny even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction" If saved, Jesus bought you. You did not choose Him. He bought you. Yet both of you deny that. Out of the sweet heart of yours, you say, you made the choice for Christ. When it was He who made the choice to buy you. At a very high price if you are even saved.
---Mark_V. on 2/17/13


Francis, I agree. Christ literally died, and we died with Christ. Our old man, I call Adam 1 died with Christ. The fellowship of His sufferings is literal, being made conform able to His death is real. We are literally dead to this old world, old creation in every way. We are literally a new creature in Christ , and part of the new creation. We are waiting for the new creation of the new Heavens and earth. We HAVE passed from death to life in Christ, and we are now seated with Christ in heavenly Places in Christ.

This was never promised to earthly Israel. Joshua is a parallel to Ephesians, yet, Joshua is the earthly parallel. The Jordan is a picture / type, shadow of the Cross. OT had types and shadows, that pointed to Christ.
---kathr4453 on 2/16/13


---kathr4453 on 2/16/13

Paul means that the old man of sin, the person he used to be is dead. He is no longer that man of sin, his sins were nailed to the cross and he is now a new person in Jesus. He is no longer the person he used to, he no longer lives the life of sin he used to lives in fact it is not he that does the living, it is Jesus Christ In him that lives the victorious life

If that is your understanding, I can show you christ in us in the OT.
I can also show you partaking of his death in the OT

I just posted what it mean to ME, but to answer you, i need to know what it means to you.
I do not want to impose my meaning on you, then say you are wrong. I am not like that
---francis on 2/16/13


of course paul wasn't crucified on a cross. He died to himself every day like we all should. he did not fulfill the fleshly wants but he did what God saved him to do.
---shira4368 on 2/16/13


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Francis, are you asking me if Paul said he was literally nailed to the cross with Christ?

What do you think Paul is trying to say here in Galatians? Do you think he has a valid point, not only here, but Romans 6, Colossians 2, Philippians 3.

Do you believe the second death is literal?
---kathr4453 on 2/16/13


---kathr4453 on 2/16/13

Are you saying that Paul was LITERALLY nailed to the cross with Jesus Christ?
---francis on 2/16/13


Francis, Paul in Galatians 2:20' speaks in first person...."I AM crucified with Christ."

Galatians 5... Those who are Christ's HAVE CRUCIFIED the flesh . The Flesh here is our old Adam.

Michael _e, the verse I posted from Perer, re heresy, would Peter be accusing Paul's of preaching Heresy? Warning Jews to beware of Paul . AND Paul certainly accused the "concision " in Phil 3:1-5 of being not only heresy, but called them DOGS. And you say this hatred between them was of God?

The concision were those who upset those in Galatians, where he rebuked Peter. Was Peter then a DOG in Paul 's eyes? What about God 's eyes. Was Peter a DOG in God's eyes. ....or just Paul's?
---kathr4453 on 2/16/13


reading this scripture,one thing that gets into my mind is about the mystery of salvation through Christ Jesus.That through Him,man will be reunited to God,this is all God's plan in the beginning when Adam and Eve fell into sin.
---mj on 2/16/13


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Does Paul say, some are crucified with Christ , while others are fed to lions? No.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/13

Paul was not crucified, so it is not literal.

Paul was beheaded,

Acts 12:2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen,

So not every disciple or apostles was crucified.

We are not literally crucified with Christ.
---francis on 2/16/13


2 Peter 2:1-3

2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways, by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not..

Ever notice Markv doing this when the Cross / not election is preached?
---kathr4453 on 2/16/13


Peter, acknowledged Paul revelation
2 Peter 3:15-16,.. "Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him (not "unto us") hath written unto you, As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things hard to be understood "

Rom 16:25, Paul's gospel, was a mystery until God revealed it to him.

Why our gospel was secret so long?
1 Cor 2:7-8, "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory". No one knew it, not Satan himself. The crucifixion as payment for our sins took place as God planned.
---michael_e on 2/16/13


Francis, what do you believe Galatians 2:20-21is talking about? Does Paul say, some are crucified with Christ , while others are fed to lions? No.

Being baptized into His Death, Romans 6 is identifying with Him in Death, and the result of that is being raised up together with Him a new creature.

Now, how would/could anyone in the OT be baptized into His death, when He had not yet died.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/13


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Francis, we'll have to continue this tomorrow.

Just read Philippians 3 too. And Colossians 2. It's all right there.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/13


Markv, again you show your ignorance, and hide behind insults. Will you ever grow up?

You too fail to understand the doctrine of the cross, that yes, is now revealed.

Don't you see in the verse quoted on the blog question, that is has been revealed to us.

The whole of Ephesians is about this very mystery, concluded in chapter 6.

You have to be born again to see it.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/13


30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Excuse me Ephesians 5.

This mystery Markv has never understood. Because Calvin never taught the doctrine of the cross.

You can see here, with all scripture posted, it just goes totally over his head.

For the preaching of the cross is foolishness to them that perish.

But to usward, IT Is the Power of God.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/13


Francis, yes, but that verse says nothing about being crucified WITH Christ.
---kathr4453 on 2/14/13

We will both agree that this is not literal.
---francis on 2/14/13

Really Francis, so what in the OT can you possible show that is not literal.

This is LITERAL.( Colossians 3:1-4) If you haven't died with Christ now, you will have to face the 2nd death later.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/13

Very few Christians are actually crucified, many were fed to the lions, many had heads cut off, some died in their sleep. It is not literal
---francis on 2/15/13


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Kathr, again I say, some mysteries were kept secret. They were secret, for a time, until a later time when they were revealed. Some secrets are never told. When they were told the secret, it no longer a secret, but a revealed truth.
Mystery is something known but not explained.
A good example is you. Some things of God, like the fact that Jesus Christ is Eternal Son, that mystery is still kept secret from you, but maybe one day the Spirit will reveal it to you. And again, maybe not.
---Mark_V. on 2/15/13


Also I do need to know what " cruciied with Christ" means to you before I show you an OT reference

Christ in you not a mystery it is OT
Identtfying with his body in death not new very OT

Where Francis ?

Gentiles and jews being equals, mystery since only Jews / levites ran the sanctuary and were sanctified for that office
---francis on 2/15/13

No one today is a levitical priest , only Jesus Christ is. That office alone belongs to Jesus Christ alone, who through His own Blood entered in to the Holy of Holies . You can 't enter the Holy of Holies except THROUGH Jesus Christ.

There were 11 other tribes too...not just Levites.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/13


Also I do need to know what " cruciied with Christ" means to you before I show you an OT .
---francis on 2/15/13

Francis, we see in Galatians the
Judiazers who came didn't 't know what the doctrine of the CROSS was. That 's why Paul reiterated Galatians 2:20-21.

It has nothing to do with OT law.

No where in the OT is Romans 6 even suggested, or could anyone live by. Jesus had not even died and rose yet.

Not to mention Colossians 3:1-4.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/13


Francis, yes, but that verse says nothing about being crucified WITH Christ.
---kathr4453 on 2/14/13

We will both agree that this is not literal. So tell me, what doe sit mean to you, so that we may find it in the OT
---francis on 2/14/13

Really Francis, so what in the OT can you possible show that is not literal.

This is LITERAL.( Colossians 3:1-4) If you haven't died with Christ now, you will have to face the 2nd death later.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/13


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Mystery according to Thesaurus: ENGLISH is
Unknown
Unidentified,
SECRET
Obscure
Vagueness
Clandestine
Covert
Furtive

Secret according to according to Thesaurus: ENGLISH is
Mystery
Riddle
Surprise
Hush-hush
Hid
Top-Secret
Classified
Private

Matthew 13:35
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things which have been kept secret AKA HID from the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
---kathr4453 on 2/15/13


---kathr4453 on 2/15/13
There are about
1: Crucified with Christ
2: making the two one
3: Christ in you

These are three things
Which of them do you say is the mystery?

Also I do need to know what " cruciied with Christ" means to you before I show you an OT reference

Christ in you not a mystery it is OT
Identtfying with his body in death not new very OT

Gentiles and jews being equals, mystery since only Jews / levites ran the sanctuary and were sanctified for that office
---francis on 2/15/13


markv, according to colossians 1, the MYSTERY was kept SECRET, but is now revealed to us.

The secret and mystry are not two different things. Yikes!
---kathr4453 on 2/15/13


Romans 16:25
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16 tell us this mystery was kept secret but now revealed.

Colossians 1:24-27 tell us what that mystery is that was kept secret.

This is what was PURPOSED in HIMSELF...the Church, HIS BODY!
---kathr4453 on 2/15/13


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To answer your question Francis, I will have to ask you this , can you find any scripture in the OT about being crucified with the messiah when He comes to die on a cross. Does any scripture in the OT say anything about being crucified with the coming Messiah at all, or identifying with Him in death and resurrection life, both to the Jew and Gentile alike, making out of both ONE NEW MAN, a NEW CREATURE, where we are members of His Body. Was this even told to a Jew in the OT, where the secret was that after His resurrection, the Gentiles would be offered this too?

Christ in you, the hope of GLORY, not earthly, was definitely kept secret until Jesus rose from the dead.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/13


Kathr doesn't understand that a secret and a mystery are two different things. There were many mysteries kept from the Old Testament people. They did not have any idea how things were going to come about later in history. They were a mystery to them. The first gospel preached was in (Gen. 3:15) that God would provide a Savior, His Son, but how that was going to come about was a mystery to all of those people. Even the Apostles knew very little what was going to occur, Jesus had to keep teaching them and telling them they must believe what He was teaching. They must overcome. A secret is something that is never told, if told it is not a secret.
---Mark_V. on 2/15/13


---kathr4453 on 2/14/13

If I find it in the books of the OT is it a mystery?
---francis on 2/14/13


That Gentiles would be saved was never a Mystery. Abel, Job...and God told Abraham I the OT that I. Him, all nations, that is Gentiles of the earth would be blessed.

The Mystery iis the Mystery of HIS BODY, called the Church, as you continue to read to the end of Ephesians. Read the whole book, not just one verse.
---kathr4453 on 2/14/13


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The Mystery of the Church is CHRIST IN YOU, the Hope of Glory. It's the Spirit OF THE LIFE OF CHRIST that sets one free from the law of sin and death.

We are SET FREE (excuse my caps, not yelling) from sin, not just forgiven of sin. To be set FREE, one needs look at Roamns 6. There was no indication in the OT or New Covenant one must identify with Jesus Christ in death and resurrection life. Also read Philippians 3. We are members of His Body. We are baptized into His death..remember, the Holy Spirit did not die on a cross, Jesus did.
---kathr4453 on 2/14/13


Bro. Trey, your passage says
"..made known unto us the "mystery of His will.."
and in (Eph. 3:3-6) Paul says,
"..by revelation He (Christ) made known to me the mystery as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in "the mystery of Christ." . Meaning, that many things about Christ was not known until the coming of the Spirit at Pentacost to indwell believers. For the next passage says,
"which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His Holy apostles and prophets" The mystery here was, Gentiles were to become fellow heirs and partakers of the Promise.
---Mark_V. on 2/14/13


willie_c: on 2/13/13
well said
---francis on 2/13/13


I believe there are more than one mystery in God's Word. it is wonderful to know I can feel the presence of God many times. it is also a mystery that Christians can understand spiritual things. it is a mystery how God can put things together that man calls coincidence. my brother had a tumor that was discovered after he got strangled on a piece of steak. he called it lucky. I called it divine. God is a mystery and yet we know Him. men don't understand the mysteries of God.
---shira4368 on 2/13/13


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"the mystery of Christ" (Ephesians 3:4) is "that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel," (Ephesians 3:6)

In the case of this mystery, we Gentiles are to share in all that our Father has promised His people > this was a mystery, by not being known to us. However - - even though it was not known . . . all along even before Jesus came, God was preparing this for us.

Like this, in our everyday lives, there can be all that God in His love is preparing to bring through our troubles or nicer times . . . though we might not see this good that is preparing and going to come out in dew time (c:
---willie_c: on 2/13/13


Bro. Trey, I agree in what you said because the beginning verses tell us what we have received in order to understand our position with God and what we now understand because of Him. (v. 1:3) tells us that God blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. So that we should be holy and without blame before Him. He also gave us the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, because He redeemed thos He chose in Him before the foundation of the world (v. 1:4) so that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ.
Before God saved us, it was all a mystery to us.
---Mark_V. on 2/12/13


I believe the true mystery is that Christ, the Son of God, in whom dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily, would come to this low ground of sin and sorrow and die for the sins of the elect family of God and be raised again the third day. I do not believe that anyone including Francis could have guessed that Christ would come to earth and die on the cross and be raised the third day.

I also believe that much of the mystery of Christ still exist to many such as Francis who do understand salvation by grace.

Eventhough they do not understand grace does not take away it's effectiveness to save them.
---trey on 2/11/13


Paul received grace from God to minister the unique mystery of Christ to Gentiles (Romans 5:15-16). He was the apostle of the Gentiles (Rom 11:13).
Gentiles being blessed was no mystery. How they would be blessed is different according to the revelation of the mystery.

Under prophecy they would be blessed through Israel and the covenants. The earthly purpose of God is to bless the world (i.e. Gentiles) through his covenanted people Israel.

Under the mystery of Christ Gentiles receive all spiritual blessings directly through Christ and his completed work on the cross. The mystery purpose of God is to bless all men today through the abundance of his grace without any covenants.
---michael_e on 2/11/13


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Francis it is not a mystery as in unknown but more a mystery in the awesomeness that we cannot fully understand the true love of Christ.
---Scott1 on 2/11/13
I will buy it, but I will not try to sell it
---francis on 2/11/13


Not really a mystery
---francis on 2/11/13

agree with Joseph.

Francis it is not a mystery as in unknown but more a mystery in the awesomeness that we cannot fully understand the true love of Christ.
---Scott1 on 2/11/13


which is Christ in you, the hope of glory".
---Josef on 2/10/13
Jeremiah 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ezekiel 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath [is] in me, and the spirit of God [is] in my nostrils,



Not really a mystery
---francis on 2/11/13


"What is the mystery?" Trey "The mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, has now been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory". "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God, that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God." For the believer " there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all."Col 1:26,27 >1Cr 2:12>Col 3:11
---Josef on 2/10/13


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The blood of Jesus was shed for atonement for our sins has been known from day one of sin.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed, it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Genesis 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof
Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.
Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Revelation 13:8 the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

What the mystery was the EQUALITY that they would share both circumcised and uncircumcised
---francis on 2/10/13


The blood of Jesus was shed for atonement for our sins. This was a mystery, until our risen Lord revealed it to Paul.

From Matt 16:21-22, Luke 18:33-34, John 20:9, we know the twelve didn't know Christ was going to die and rise again from the dead. It was hidden from them by God.

Paul received the gospel of grace by revelation from our Lord Gal 1:11-12,
He was appointed as the apostle of the Gentiles to reveal mysteries previously kept hidden. One of these is the mystery of the gospel. Eph 6:18-20, "Praying always ... for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel for which I am an ambassador in bonds ...." Paul's gospel had been a mystery.
---michael_e on 2/10/13


The mystery is that of "His will" which is de-mystified and described in Eph1:10-14.
His will is that each of us hear, believe and trust in the truth and salvation of Christ which is being offered to us all. Thereby allowing us to inherit and enjoy full dispensation - all that He is offering: salvation and the glory of Heaven which is ours to receive. Hence, Eph1:10 begins to describe who He might gather together in one all things in Christ.
Music for Christ by Brian Matthew Lee.
---Brian_Matthew_Lee on 2/10/13


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