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Where Do Dead Babies Go

Someone here said babies go to heaven because they are innocent, but could not provide Scripture Truth. Opinions are not helpful, Truth is. Give Scripture.

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 ---Mark_V. on 2/14/13
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Michael e, Romans 6:4-9) Water baptism also identifies us with the baptism of Jesus. It is symbolic. The baptism that brings us in union with the body of Christ is done by the Holy Spirit. It is a spiritual baptism.
---Mark_V. on 3/28/13

Mark you say
//baptism is very important for the believer. It identifies him with Christ and His resurrection.//

In your own words
Give Scripture
---michael_e on 3/27/13

Michael e, I answered your question why do you ask again,
" I was speaking of water baptism not saving anyone.//
What do you believe water baptism was for?"

The answer was in the first part,
"//baptism is very important for the believer. It identifies him with Christ and His resurrection.
---MarK_V. on 3/27/13

Mark you say
//baptism is very important for the believer. It identifies him with Christ and His resurrection.
I was speaking of water baptism not saving anyone.//
What do you believe water baptism was for?
---michael_e on 3/24/13

Michael E: The best one (though one cannot guarantee that the person had not been baptised, but there is no evidence that he had) is of the thief on the cross Lk 23:39-43. Here, since they were being crucified, it was not possible, but Jesus does guarantee he would be in heaven

Other places include (about salvation without baptism): Jn 5:24 and Jn 11:25 - but those just don't mention it
---Peter on 3/24/13

Michael e, I was speaking of water baptism not saving anyone. You asked me for Scripture. Here is what Scripture says about salvation:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Eph. 8,9)
No water baptism is mentioned, why? Because when a person gets baptized in water, it is done by his own works. Water only cleans you on the outside, but never in the inside. Only the Spirit of God can clean the inside through spiritual birth.
---Mark_V. on 3/24/13

\\In Mk 16:16 Jesus includes baptism and belief as a necessity for salvation, but in Jn 6:47 Jesus only says about belief...\\
---Peter on 3/18/13

"baptize" simply means to immerse - not necessarily in water, and not necessarily done to humans. Mark used "baptism" in many ways

immersed/baptized in water (Mk 1:4)

baptized/immersed in the Holy Spirit (Mk 1:8)

baptized/immersed in suffering (Mk 10:38-39)

food, pots and cups were baptized, typically translated "washed" (Mk 7:4)

What sort of immersion is Mark 16:16 speaking of? There is simply NOT enough immediate context to determine
---James_L on 3/23/13

Mark you say
//Of course if you are not able for some good and moral reason, you still remain saved.//

You also say opinions are not helpful, give scripture, where is your scripture, that water baptism has anything to do with salvation one way or another
---michael_e on 3/21/13

Bro. Peter, baptism is very important for the believer. It identifies him with Christ and His resurrection. In the early church, it was so important it divided the Church. Many upon many died because they either believe in sprinkleing or full submersion even if they knew that baptism saved no one. But if you think about it very carefully you will know that if you belief and trust in Christ as a believer, you will do what you are capable of doing out of love for Christ. Of course if you are not able for some good and moral reason, you still remain saved.
---Mark_V. on 3/21/13

Have you ever noticed in Mark 16:16 that it does not matter if one is baptized or not, if unbelief is there, there is no salvation.
The other option is someone who believes and is not baptized.
Why did not Jesus say "If one is not baptized, one is condemned"?
So, the conclusion must be "belief" as in the other scriptures.
But, why not just leave "baptize" out of it then? you ask.
Maybe Jesus answered that as well.
Mat 3:15 But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit [it to be so] now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed Him.
Salvation is in belief. Let us all move closer to Him to fulfill all righteousness.
---micha9344 on 3/19/13

Bro. Peter, you say,
"It is one of those things that I am confuse about.... In Mk 16:16 Jesus includes baptism and belief as a necessity for salvation, but in Jn 6:47 Jesus only says about belief, without mentioning baptism

I'm not sure"

Here is the assurance,
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works (baptism is works) lest anyone should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9).
When a person gets baptized, he is doing his own works, responding to the faith he has been given. In salvation there is no works. That why free will is not mentioned in the Bible when it comes to salvation, because it is by God's grace we are saved.
---Mark_V. on 3/19/13

Mark V: That I understand. I mentioned that mostly because it is one of those things in the Bible that I felt that there must have been SOME reason....

But I am not saying I know the reason, nor that baptism means salvation.

It is one of those things that I am confuse about.... In Mk 16:16 Jesus includes baptism and belief as a necessity for salvation, but in Jn 6:47 Jesus only says about belief, without mentioning baptism

I'm not sure
---Peter on 3/18/13

Bro. Peter, you gave some passages and made the argument,
"So one being baptised for the belief of another is Biblical (at least Paul allowed it)"
It is biblical but does not mean that because someone is baptized the person is saved. Baptism does not save anyone. Believing by faith in the gospel does. In Acts 16:32,33) they were all baptized but (v.34) tells us
"...and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household" The household believed, and this cannot be infants included, because they cannot belief. Here household, meaning family, servants and guest who could comprehend the gospel and believed it. A person must belief first, then he is baptized as an acknowledgment of his faith.
---Mark_V. on 3/18/13

Follower: Excluding your argument with the Catholic what I will call 'timing' (babies are in heaven now or after the judgement?), the rest is an issue that is of importance.

I will limit my scripture to scriptures: Mk 16:16 (belief and baptism) and Jn 5:24 (belief only)

If a baby is one month old, I think we can agree that the 'belief' side cannot be applied (a baby cannot believe at one month of age). But it can be baptised at one month of age.

Initially is seems strange, but remember the guard in Neapolis (Acts 16:33). There the guard was baptised WITH HIS FAMILY. Even though only the guard himself had seem enough to believe

So one being baptised for the belief of another is Biblical (at least Paul allowed it)
---Peter on 3/16/13

catholic religion and its bible (their catechism) has corrupted minds of so many by teaching their own traditions of heaven and hell not found in Word of God and most of these adopted by their daughters.

Babies do not go to heaven per holy scripture. This is very easily understood because Gods Word states no man has ever ascended to heaven, in fact Apostles made it clear King David was not in heaven and was still in his grave!! Although King David will be ruling on earth with the Lord Jesus at his glorious return. There are 3 resurrections and Gods plan is for all to receive salvation, however, at the last resurrection God will completely destroy those who refuse salvation Matt 10:28
---Follower_of_Christ on 3/16/13

Steveng, you are again twisting what I wrote down. I did not warn you, God's word did with that passage. now you say,
" Even though God has yet to kill a soul because all has not been fulfilled yet."
Suggesting God is going to kill the soul in the future but that is a lie. Nowhere in the Bible are we told God will kill the soul. There is a warning from God not to add or take away from the Word of God.
---Mark_V. on 3/16/13

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Mark_V. " about twisting words, it is exactly what you just did to my answer."

How did I ever twist your post when you wrote: "It is a warning Steven." There is no other meaning. Whether it was from you or you quoted from somewhere else, but in your heart you warned me.

Mark_V.: "man can never kill the soul, but God can. Yet nowhere are we told He is doing it."

You are just repeating what I said. Even though God has yet to kill a soul because all has not been fulfilled yet. Judgement is at the second resurrection of man when all the other people will rise and be judge from the Book of Life according to their works on earth. Blessed are those that rise at the first resurrection.
---Steveng on 3/15/13

Steveng, talk about twisting words, it is exactly what you just did to my answer. First remove the log from your eye, for I did not give you a warning, the writer of Scripture, Matthew, who wrote the passage in (10:28) did when he said,
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell"
Matthew was giving you a warning, all I did was write what he wrote. man can never kill the soul, but God can. Yet nowhere are we told He is doing it.
---Mark_V. on 3/15/13

Mark_V.: "It is a warning Steven."

You, Mark V, have no authority to warn anyone. Your warnings are like smoke which eventually disappears. You have twisted many of my posts like you do to amny other people who post.
---Steveng on 3/14/13

Steveng, you say I twisted your words, where? Did you provide one passage where God killed the soul? No. He can if He chooses to do so, because He is God. It is a warning Steven. Not a fact that He is going around killing souls. Even when your soul is in hell, it will not die, it will suffer. Not for a minute, everlasting suffering. If it was killed, there would be no punishment. The dead cannot experience punishment, they are dead.
Read the Bible, look it up on the net, and join a denomination, maybe you will find one you like.
---Mark_V. on 3/6/13

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As always, Mark V, you have twisted my post and have no idea what the bible says.

Mark V says: "Now God can kill the soul if He so chooses to do so, but we are never told He does."

This proves that you do not read, let alone meditate, the bible.

Read Matthew 10:28

While you have your bible open also read:

Job 19:26
1 Corinthians 6:13

In the new heavens and the new earth there shall not be anyone that was not resurrected in the first resurrection nor anyone judged righteously in the second resurrection.
---Steveng on 3/5/13

Steveng, man can kill a person and when that physical body dies, they cannot kill the soul. Which indicates that when a person dies, their soul does not die.
Now God can kill the soul if He so chooses to do so, but we are never told He does. All the talk about the soul dying when a person physically dies is a false doctrine by the SDA's and others who teach the soul dies.
---Mark_V. on 3/5/13

Do not fear man for man can only kill the body, but fear God for he can destroy the body and soul.
---Steveng on 3/4/13

amen Bro. Trey. that is exactly what I know because God inspired the Holy bible and I know what it says. we will have a new body amen right there. I could use a new body and my husband will have a new body. my daughter will have a new body, so will mom dad and my grandmother. I'm ready to go but am still praying some of my family get saved before its too late. I thank God for your stand trey, amen
---shira4368 on 2/28/13

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trey, God is building a mansion for us. mansion suggest we will be royalty. after we were cleansed with Christ Blood. We are bought with a price and we are heirs of Jesus Christ. we are co-heirs so means Jesus is King, God is king and the Holy Spirit is just what it says...holy spirit.
---shira4368 on 2/28/13

Follower, what Shira and Trey said is Truth. What I cannot understand coming from you and the SDA's is, what happens to the Spirit and soul of one who is born of the Spirit? You fight for the spirit to be dead, separated from God again. How is that possible if you are born of the spirit and you are together with Christ in the heavenly places? And how does a spirit die? It has no physical body. Sometimes when I hear most of you, I believe none of you are born of the spirit. What else can one conclude? You are just physical bodies doom to die with no Hope. Just rust away to dust when you physically die. As Trey and Shira posted, who then comes with Christ in the second Coming?
---Mark_V. on 3/1/13

trey, when my husband was on his way to glory, he smiled. when he took his last breath he smiled. I think he is still smiling because the pain he suffered from agent orange was unbelieveable. my husband was dying and some of his family threatened me because I had given him pain medication which my husband had to have so he could be a little comfortable. they have since apologized to me. I told them God forgave them and I did too.
---shira4368 on 3/1/13

Shira, AMEN!!!

2Cor5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

I believe that too! I believe when you or I or any of God's people die their spirit and soul immeadiately travel to be with the Father! I also believe that one day, Christ will come back and we will be united body, soul, and spirit! By the way, when he returns he'll bring us with him!!!

1Th4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
---trey on 2/28/13

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2 Corinthians 5:8..We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. vs 9:wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. that strongly suggest our spirit is with the Lord. I believe that and that is my hope in Jesus Christ.
---shira4368 on 2/28/13

Follower, the same question goes to you, Show where in Scripture the Word of God tells us the spirit of man dies? I am not speaking about the physical body. If he is born of the Spirit by the Spirit, where does the spirit of man goes? You think because it says the body dies it includes the spirit, but no passages state that. The passage you gave did not say the spirit died, but it went upward. Hello? Upward does not stand for death it stands for upward. An action the spirit does, go upward.
---Mark_V. on 2/26/13

Don't you see the passage says the spirit goes upward? Does it say it dies? No.

Interesting this passage does not specifically say spirit dies so it is correct to assume spirit does not die purposely rejecting (disregarding) all verses that state men die and claiming God lied in those verses?

Okay, let's play "word of Mark" game!!!

show us all the verses that agree with your added idea that the spirit does ***not*** die (there are none by the way)

Without spiritual understanding "word of mark" is a false doctrine as proved through Word of God.

Written Word of God (per Scripture I provided) states men die and they are not alive, I choose to accept Word of God
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/24/13

Follower, here is my response to you,

"Interesting, so which scripture states the spirit "dies"? MORE additions!! the additions from the "word of Follower" are against the WORD OF GOD as you reject Gods warning Proverbs 30:6, or do you have a spin for Proverbs 30:6 too?"

Don't you see the passage says the spirit goes upward? Does it say it dies? No.
You are adding to the Word of God. Putting your own spin.
---Mark_V. on 2/24/13

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The Spirit of men goes upward, you claim it dies.

Interesting, so which scripture states the spirit is "alive"? MORE additions!! the additions from the "word of Mark" are against the WORD OF GOD as you reject Gods warning Proverbs 30:6, or do you have a spin for Proverbs 30:6 too?

Further, I don't claim man dies the very Word of God says man dies, and plain scripture simply states the spirit returns to God, it is Gods spirit that returns not mans Eze 37:14

Man became a living soul, and the soul dies Gen 2:7, Eze 18:4,20, Heb 9:27

the spirit of man, body, and soul are preserved for the coming of the Lord (doesn't say mans spirit, body, and soul are alive) 1 Thess 5:23
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/23/13

The promises concerning heaven for adults at death is the same for babies and children.

The argument comes from the doctrine of water baptism. The Jews dedicated their babies but only water baptised adults for Godly service. As was Jesus on both accounts.

The Catholic doctrine required water baptism for babies. A useless exercise since they had no idea why they were getting wet.
---jan4378 on 2/23/13

Steveng, you lied, you say,
"Gordon, you are debating against christians who think they are christians, but are not"
claiming you know who's saved and who's not. you were not quoting Scripture. You not only bash the gathering of believers but also believers as a prophet.

Gordon, you decided to turn your personal attacks on me for the simple reason you have no Scripture to support your views. Your listening to false prophets like Steveng and others to support your views. Invisible spirits you see stopping cars. Instead of giving the glory to God, you give it to someone else. There is no new revelation outside of Scripture. You might as well follow Mohammah the prophet or E.G. White, how about Jim Jones.
---Mark_V. on 2/23/13

Steveng, SORRY, I meant to say "who" when I accidentally said "you" instead! It totally changes the context of what I meant to say. Blessings.
---Gordon on 2/22/13

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Steveng, Yes, you are right. I will not cast any more Pearls before some of the people here you tenaciously cleave to a false interpretation of Predestination and unto the false doctrine of OSAS. It has been good for me to have stood up for the Truth for the sake of anyone else who wants to know the Truth. But, for those sold out to false doctrines, they are BLIND and DEAF to hearing the Truth, even though they think they aren't, in regards to the subject on this Blog. Blessings to you.
---Gordon on 2/22/13

Follower, there is a difference between you and I alright. The Spirit of men goes upward, you claim it dies. The reason you gave all those passages. And completely left out that the Spirit of men goes upward. So who changed the meaning of the passage but you. I do not have to be a prophet like Steveng to see your hypocrisy.

Steveng, you claimed I was not a Christian, proclaiming you can see a persons heart, then you suggest you are a prophet. The very reason I told Gordon there is no prophets today, to many hypocrites who trash the gathering of believers and claim satan is starting denominations.
---Mark_V. on 2/22/13

Like the rest of us, they go to the grave, awaiting the resurrection at the coming of Jesus. - 1Th 4:13-18

---jerry6593 on 2/22/13

Mark_V.: "Steveng, now you claim to know who is saved and who is not."

Gosh, Mark, I'm just quoting the bible - by verse and by paraphrasing so that you know what the verses are about.

As for the other accusations against me, well, I do not bash the true Church of Christ nor the gathering of christians. Where have I written such a thing?

As for Satan dividing christiandom, Satan has put it into the minds of men to divide christiandom up into their own cults each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living and interpretations of the bible.

As for having the power to see someone's heart, God can reveal to a prophet's mind the thoughts of another person - Paul/Ananias, Elisha/Shunammite women..
---Steveng on 2/21/13

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Follower, at least when you give a passage, explain it correctly.

That is the essential difference between you and I Mark!!!

I provide Holy Scripture and the WORD of God stands.

Mark it is you who cannot stand the Word of God, you divide Holy Scripture and explain it away with twisted wicked nonsense and a very new explanation altogether different from what is plainly written.

The Word of God warns do not add to my Words and yet you reject that warning so why would I read your very new definition of each of Gods scriptures (aka the plain Word of God) that you distorted?? I wouldn't, yet you hope many will read YOUR words rather than Gods Word.
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/21/13

Follower, at least when you give a passage, explain it correctly. In (Ps. 6:5 ) it is speaking of someone dead, not the soul. The one speaking was David, and in (v. 3) he mentions "My soul is greatly troubled," how can the breath be troubled? Was he having a hard time breathing? Hello? Then you gave (Ecc. 19,20) but you forgot to mention (v.21) "Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward.." looks to me that when a believer dies his spirit goes to be with the Lord.
Another thing, when the Second Coming of Christ comes, it is the resurrection of the body only. The Spirit is already with the Lord.
---Mark_V. on 2/20/13


why didn't you quote anything from the New Testament on where people go upon death?
---James_L on 2/20/13

Gordon, I didn't want you to sin as others do when they can not find passages to support their views and all they do is talk. Inventing their own theories, and then believing them, and then fighting for them. Then when someone gives them the real truth they denied it first, then they get personal and start calling you names are saying sarcastic remarks for a topic that really is not even an essential of the Christian faith. That's the reason I didn't want you to sin.
You say,
"Mark, a matter of GOD somehow "forgetting to mention them before". It's that HE CHOSE NOT TO MENTION THEM BEFORE." another opinion with no backing from the Word, its your own opinion and most of the Pentecostals and a few other groups.
---Mark_V. on 2/20/13

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So Steveng, now you claim to know who is saved and who is not. You must also be a prophet. So now you claim to have the power to see someone's heart. First, you bash the Church of Christ, the gathering of believers, then claim satan created all denominations. If you are a prophet, why don't you know that man created the denominations? I never saw satan calling churches together and making them denomination. you also claim that two prophets spoke to you without saying any words. I suppose they made you a prophet without speaking, so you could tell who was a Christian and who was not. We have so many prophets.
---Mark_V. on 2/20/13

Holy Scripture states it is appointed once for man to die Hebrews 9:27

All will die regardless of age and at death a soul goes to hell (the grave) and death is described as:

Knowing nothing Ecc 9:5

Thoughts perish Psalms 146:3-4 Isaiah 26:14

No memory of God Psalm 6:5

Death is silence Psalm 115:17

At death a soul returns to dust Ecc 3:19-20

Death is absence of life per written Word of God. Until the return of the Lord all who have ever died wait for the resurrection to life John 5:28-29, the first resurrection is those faithful in the Lord Rev 20:1-4, and the rest of the dead (those without the Lord, who never knew Him) are restored to life after the 1000 year millennium in Rev 20:5
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/19/13

Gordon, you are debating against christians who think they are christians, but are not. These same christians who believe that apostles and prophets are no longer needed in today's world will be the same christians who will celebrate in the streets and pass each other gifts when the last two prophets mentioned in Revelation are killed and left dead in the streets.
---Steveng on 2/19/13

Where do babies go when they die?

Yes, we are born a sinful nature because we don't know the difference between right and wrong let alone the meaning of the Ten Commandments. How can a child, knowing nothing about right and wrong repent of their sins? When a child sins it is by his nature, not by his willful rebellion against God.

Deuteronomy 1:39
Deuteronomy 24:16
Ezekiel 16:20-21
Ezekiel 18:20
Jonah 4:11
Jeremiah 19:4
Ps 139:13-15
Job 3:16-19
Ecclesiastes 6:3-5
2 Sam 12:23
Isa 7:16
Matt 18:3-5
Romans 5:13-14
Matt 15:19-20

If anyone needs an explanation about these verses, please ask.
---Steveng on 2/19/13

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Mark V, You're right, I did get angry with you for how you argue against GOD's Word. I humbly apologize for being discourteous towards you and I repent before GOD. Still, you brazenly do that which you always say that you don't do, and that is, you trust the writings of what other men believe, regarding Prophets, over what the plain Written Word of GOD says about them. But, that's your free-will choice. And, new modern prophetic revelations from GOD is NOT, Mark, a matter of GOD somehow "forgetting to mention them before". It's that HE CHOSE NOT TO MENTION THEM BEFORE. Now HE chooses to reveal them. Still you've nothing to say about I CORINTHIANS 14:29-33? Or, maybe you're saving that for a NEW Blog Question..
---Gordon on 2/19/13

Mark V, You say to prophecy is to "publicly proclaim the Word of GOD". And, it IS, but with a different purpose! The Word of GOD encompasses an array of different topics, matters and goals. To "proclaim the Word of GOD" would fall also under the Calling of an EVANGELIST. Evangelists, like Billy Graham, go out a publicly proclaim the Word of GOD. Prophets, on the other hand, receive Secrets from GOD, and are to relay said Secrets and Revelations to GOD's intended audience (AMOS 3:7!). Apostles and Prophets are listed with Preachers, Teachers and Evangelists, in EPHESIANS4, ALL of which we have operating in the Church today. They are all 5 listed together, for they are all operating together, today, in the Church World-wide.
---Gordon on 2/19/13

Gordon, I have read the topic of Prophets for many years. None of them say God ordained prophets for this age. All that are mentioned are for the Apostolic Church, the introduction of the Church. All prophets ceased. Canon is close. There is no new revelations that are not mentioned in Scripture that God somehow forgot to mention. But I know you will not believe this. So instead of causing you to sin against me personally, by getting angry with me, and since this topic is not part of the essentials of the Christian faith, I will move on to more essentials topics, like salvation and the Sovereignty of God. I thank you for your time brother and move on. Peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 2/19/13

Mark V, MATTHEW 11:13 is referring to all of the prophets of GOD up to the exact point in time when YAHUSHUA spoke that. This encompassed all of the Old Testament Prophets on up to John the Baptist, and then YAHUSHUA Himself. I CORINTHIANS is a Letter to the Corinthian Church, to the Believers of Corinth. In that Letter, in Chapter 14, it says, in Verse 29, "Let the PROPHETS speak two or three, and let the other judge." That is a current admonishment to the prophets about how a certain situation is to be handled that would involve the current prophets of GOD within the Church. Verses 29 thru 33 is addressing specifically about any of the prophets of GOD in the Church. Any given period of time in the Church Age. Read it more closely.
---Gordon on 2/18/13

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Gordon, your taking this personal,
"Mark V, Why don't you set your rear-end down for a minute,".
Gordon, I seat here from 1am to 7am studying and reading. Cor. 14 does not speak of future prophets here today. It is talking about prophesy completed already about Jesus and now use in the apostolic Church.
"But if all prophesy," this means to publicly proclaim the Word of God. Paul was speaking to the Church at Corinthians. If all the Corinthians could be replaced by all of them preaching the Word, the effect on unbelievers would be amazingly powerful, the gospel would be honored, and souls would be converted to worshipping God. Read the context. Not talking of future prophets. Jesus is the last Prophet.
---Mark_V. on 2/18/13

Mark V, Why don't you set your rear-end down for a minute, and re-read I CORINTHIANS 14? Read the WHOLE Chapter, Mark V. And come back and tell me what it says about who are given certain Gifts within the Church, like the Gift of Prophecy. A Prophet is one of the Callings as listed in EPHESIANS 4. Tell me whether or not that Chapter 14 is "ONLY talking about the 12 Apostles".
---Gordon on 2/18/13

Gordon 3: Also remember the many passages that speak of the prophets as (Matt. 11:13) where we read:
"For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John" Jesus did not say some prophets "but all prophets." if there were going to be more prophets later other then Jesus, He would have said some prophets not all prophets. This statement is found many times in the gospels, because they all pointed to Christ coming. Jesus was the last Prophet. Acts 3:22-24).
---Mark_V. on 2/18/13

Gordon 2: including Paul who later was called by Jesus to the Gentiles. That's how the Apostolic Church was build. Jesus is the last Prophet, Priest and King. If you hear anyone saying they are prophets, run as fast as you can.
"Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail, whether there are tongues, they will cease, whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part." now hear this last part and listen to it and understand it,
"But when that which is Perfect (that is speaking of Jesus Christ) has come, then that which is in part (all those he mentioned) will be done away" (1 Cor. 13:8-10).
Believe it by faith or not believe it at all.
---Mark_V. on 2/18/13

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Gordon, why do you not understand something so simple. (Eph. 4:11,12) is speaking of the 12 Apostles, who had seen the risen Christ (Acts 1:22). That is how the Church was build. Look at (Eph. 2:19,20).
"Now therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone" The Spirit gave those gifts to the Apostles and prophets, that is how the Church of Jesus Christ was build. Jesus never said, that today, at the present time He was going to build another church, and that today there would be new apostles and prophets. No evidence to that effect.
---Mark_V. on 2/18/13

Mark V, You're making absolutely no sense. I just gave Scripture Verses that states that, within the Church, GOD has appointed Apostles. It's EPHESIANS 4:11-12. You always demand "Scriptural proof" for such-and-such a thing, and, that's GOOD.....But, when I GIVE Scripture to you, you then deny that it means what it is clearly saying. EPHESIANS 4:11-12 says GOD has Apostles in the Church. There are no indications, in these Verses, of any time limitations placed on this Office of Apostleship. So, we can know that EPHESIANS 4:11-12 applies to the entire Church Age, from it's birth at Pentecost (ACTS 2) until the Return of YAHUSHUA. No need to complicate what GOD has made simple to understand.
---Gordon on 2/17/13

Gordon, I have noticed that no matter the topic, you have a lot to say but no Scripture. You have nothing to support your views. First, it was invisible demons or angels stopping cars and you know for sure they were demons because someone told you what they looked like. Or someone saw an invisible demon holding someone physically down on the bed, and you say you can see invisible demons and angels. Now you have facts that God ordain certain people as Apostles, so I will wait for your proof. Show one passage from Scripture where God said He would have Apostles today at this present time, and I will believe you.
---Mark_V. on 2/17/13

Mark V, EPHESIANS 4:11-12. Apostles set up in the Church for the Ministry to the Church. YAHUSHUA can appear to anyone He pleases. Oh, ye of little Faith.
---Gordon on 2/17/13

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Gordon, you say to Christan,

"I KNOW that GOD has modern-day Apostles and Prophets, simply because HIS Written Word says that HE does."

Where in Scripture does it say that God has modern day Apostles? Show one passage that states that. Just one. you assume there is Apostles today, but cannot proof there is, at least not from the Bible. The Bible closed a long time ago. And who are this Apostles that you say God appointed? Who are they?
Lets just say you mention some guy name John, how do you know He chose John for Apostleship? Maybe God chose him to be a teacher? How do you know? What proof do you have? Your own word?
---Mark_V. on 2/17/13

Christan, Do "I" want you to believe that there are still Apostles and Prophets, you ask? It's not a matter of what "I" want. It's a matter of what GOD wants you to do. As for me and my house, I KNOW that GOD has modern-day Apostles and Prophets, simply because HIS Written Word says that HE does. What you believe, on the other hand, is completely up to you.
---Gordon on 2/15/13

1Ciff, when Christan said,

"From your blogs it's clear you're in unbelief that Jesus is God, for me it's enough not to continue with this conversation further as it will add further damnation to your soul"

He was telling you the Truth. You have no faith that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever, because you use His Humanity against He Divine nature to discredit Him. And to give you more proof only condemns you worse.
"Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy, who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the Covenant by which He was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of Grace?" (Heb. 10:29).
---Mark_V. on 2/16/13

Christian, It's obvious from your post that you're not able to answer my questions, so, cut-and -run if that's your style!
I notice that you don't hesitate to throw a few stones on your way out!( that's also characterisit of your BLIND faith)
---1st_cliff on 2/15/13

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Gordon, when you quote Ephesians 4:11-12, you have failed to understand the context of the Scripture. Yes, Christ has resurrected by the time Paul penned this epistle. At this time, how many of the original apostles that walked with the Lord during His ministry were still alive until the completion of the canon? But we know Paul, Peter, John were sill alive.

The apostles too were prophets of God, for they even prophesied in the epistles of things to come. That's what a prophet of God does! After the completion of the canon, you want me to believe there are still apostles and prophets?

It's like saying God forgot some things He needed to say to us apart from the complete Holy Bible. And that to me is ludicrous and erroneous.
---christan on 2/15/13

1stCliff, when a Christian declares that Jesus Christ is God, he believes it with faith and without wavering. And that's what's lacking in you. You ask for evidence when the Holy Bible is right before you with all the witness and testimony it provides, is proof that faith from God is most definitely absent.

From your blogs it's clear you're in unbelief that Jesus is God, for me it's enough not to continue with this conversation further as it will add further damnation to your soul. Until God shows mercy and grace, I must heed my Lord's command of,

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." Amen.
---christan on 2/15/13

Christian, Since you mentioned it,how could Jesus be "appointed" heir of all things if he was already God???
Who "appointed" Jesus? Himself??? Let's stay with reality huh!
---1st_cliff on 2/15/13

Christan, I truly gave Verses here that show that GOD has Prophets in the Church today. Maybe you missed them, so I shall repeat them, here, just for you. Would that be helpful? The Verses that tell us that GOD has set up HIS holy Prophets within the Church are the Verses of EPHESIANS 4:11-12 and I CORINTHIANS 14:24-33. Why not take some time to read those Verses for yourself sometime soon? They state that GOD has Prophets in the Church to do their GOD-given part to help minister to the Church. So that's the Scriptural proof. One would have to really be BLIND to miss it. Shalom.
---Gordon on 2/15/13

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Gordon, you have lots to learn about what a prophet of God truly is. From your understanding, I gather you believe there are still prophets of God around today and the age to come. You are right but I will tell you, these are FALSE PROPHETS!

Everything God wants us to know and learn is ALL in the Holy Bible, no more no less. And that's because the last of His prophet was none other than His Son Jesus Christ. And this, we are told,

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds."

Good try.
---christan on 2/14/13

When the flood came babies were drownd with the parents,in Sodom and Gommorah,babies were burned up with the parents,No mention od children being separated at armageddon
so the fate of children depend on their parents, so be warned!
---1st_cliff on 2/15/13

Leave the matter in God's capable and loving hands.

Only HE can sort out this matter with both justice and mercy. He will do what is right.

And if you want Scripture for what I have said, read the Bible for yourself.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/14/13

The Scriptures also say, Christan, in AMOS 3:7, that GOD shares HIS "Secret" with HIS servants, the prophets (Whatever those Secrets may be. It CAN be more than one. It's however many GOD chooses. GOD has more than "one" Secret, even though KJV says 'Secret' as if it were "just one".) For the Scriptures say, in EPHESIANS 4:11-12 and I CORINTHIANS 14, that GOD has Prophets (as well as Pastors and Evangelists and Teachers, etc.) in HIS Church, throughout the entire Church Age. So, those two facts together help tell us that GOD reveals HIS Secret(s)(DEUTERONOMY 29:29) to HIS servants WHENEVER IT SUITS HIM. And, HE has revealed to HIS servants exactly where all babies go to when they die. That is, to Heaven.
---Gordon on 2/14/13

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Mark V, As you read in the other Blog, concerning JOEL 2:28 and ACTS 2:17, that ACTS 2:17 was only the beginning of the fulfillment of the JOEL 2:28 Prophecy. The fulfillment of JOEL 2:28 started at the first Pentecost, as recorded in ACTS 2, and it continues on until the Last Days, where we'll see the darkened Sun and the bloody-coloured Moon, as you mentioned. So, the Visions and Revelations, as well as the Tongues, are a result of the filling of the Holy Spirit which we have today, ever since the first Pentecost. And, the Visions of Heaven with all of the babies was given to GOD's servants (AMOS 3:7). Who are now sharing this Divine Secret with the rest of the Church and the World.
---Gordon on 2/14/13

"The wicked are estranged from the womb,
.They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies."
. . . . . . . . . (Psalm 58:3)

So, I can see that God does not consider all babies to be "innocent". If we make babies idols . . . or anyone else an idol . . . we can come up with very wishful ideas about what happens to them after they die.

Who says a baby is dead, after dying? God can do whatsoever He pleases with each baby who dies. He knows. Even if a baby is a seed of a future wicked person, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." (in Romans 9:15)
---willie_c: on 2/14/13

This is what Scripture says about babies when they die:


Meaning, "The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." Deuteronomy 29:29
---christan on 2/14/13

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