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New Creation In Christ

When a believer comes to know Christ, that person becomes a new creation (2 Cor. 5:17). What then characterizes the walk of the believer?

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 ---e.lee7537 on 2/17/13
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Peter, your assumption is correct!

Believing is a righteous work. Before one can believe one must be born of the Spirit of God.

We are washed and made clean in the work of regeneration (aka "the new birth"). - Titus 3:5. The Holy Ghost (aka Holy Spirit of God, aka the Comforter) moves in and takes up permanent residence in us at regeneration. - John 14:16

Last of all, we know that "faith/belief" (greek word: pistos) is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. - Gal 5:22

For us to bear fruit there must first be the working of the Holy Spirit.

One other thing, I'm bald headed, overweight, ugly old man, not a girl. :)
---trey on 2/23/13


Peter,
you're right to a degree. The error is built from other other errors

Total Depravity, which is an error based on an erroneous presumption that a spiritual condition is inherited through a physical relation to Adam. If this were true, Christ would have been born depraved. He is, after all, a physical descendant of Adam

The other error is that faith is a choice. Since the bible is clear that a man cannot believe unless God intervenes, they assume that God must give man life first, thus giving the man the ability to choose Christ.

But men are not spiritually dead in Adam, only physically. A man dies spiritually when turns his own way. And faith is passive, not active
---James_L on 2/23/13


James, before you can enter the kingdom of God you must be born again. No one can enter His kingdom unless he is born of the Spirit. At the moment a person becomes spiritually alive, he is granted faith to believe. The kingdom of God is Christ. It is His kingdom. He is God. (Eph. 2:4-10).
"But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us (believers) even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ,( by grace you are saved) and "and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus..."
At the moment we are made alive, we are seated in God's Kingdom together with Christ in heavenly places. Why do you not see that?
---Mark_V. on 2/23/13


Somewhere along the way, Christan lost sight of these verses:

"Come unto Me "all who are heady laden, and I will give you rest. REST here is salvation.

Or

God is the rewarded of those who diligently SEEK HIM.

Seek and you shall find, KNOCK, and the door shall be open to you.

Is God a God of duplicity here, speaking out of both sides of His mouth?

All day long I have reached out my arms to you, AND YOU WOULD NOT.

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm
---kathr4453 on 2/23/13


What then characterizes the walk of the believer?


Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.


---jerry6593 on 2/23/13




\\a Christian still sins even after he receives the Spirit while in the flesh BUT is never ungodly.

One who has no faith in God and is in complete unbelief of God, that's ungodly.\\
---christan on 2/22/13

You're speaking out of both sides of your trough there

According to you, there is an interim period between receiving the Spirit and receiving faith

In one sentence you say that he is godly in that interim, and the next sentence you say he's ungodly in that interim

WHICH IS IT ????

Can you make up your mind so I know which error to refute?
---James_L on 2/22/13


James L: I assume that Trey is taking John 3:3 'unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God' and from that assumes that you cannot BELIEVE in Christ if you do not SEE the kingdom of God

Thus, she assumes that before one BELIEVES, that person must first be born again

Often people consider that the two 'being born again' and 'believing' as occurring together, but that verse seems to say that one occurs first

Just an idea...... I am not sure what Trey was thinking of
---Peter on 2/22/13


\\A person cannot believe in Christ until they are born again.\\
---trey on 2/22/13

You guys keep saying it, and we guys (and girl) keep asking for one of you kind sirs to produce a bible verse that says EXACTLY that.

Where is this mysterious verse that we're all missing, which says that one must be born again BEFORE he can believe the gospel?

We haven't asked for much. Silence us all with only one verse.

Otherwise, it is nothing more (or less) than vain philosophy, building on the speculations of others
---James_L on 2/22/13


So Christan, why then does scripture say many are called but FEW are chosen.

Not everyone called is chosen...correct, or is called and chosen two different things. Or is it one and the same?

There are many aspects of GRACE.

We come boldly to the THRONE OF GRACE...so here cannot mean God working in you to believe.

Jesus sits on that throne. Thrones cannot work in you to believe.

We come boldly to the throne of GRACE to find MERCY.
---kathr4453 on 2/22/13


"Exactly how is one born again, yet he still isn't justified?" JamesL

This is an impossible scenario according to Scriptures, "whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified". See the darkness you're still in?

"How is one still ungodly after being born again into a godly person?"

Your complete lack of understanding ungodly and sinner is precisely why you even ask this question. Let me help, a Christian still sins even after he receives the Spirit while in the flesh BUT is never ungodly. One who has no faith in God and is in complete unbelief of God, that's ungodly.
---christan on 2/22/13




"If one is born again, yet not justified and saved, what is his fate if he dies in between?" JamesL

Impossible combination! The fact that you're not justified by God is simply because you've not been "born of the Spirit" and at death, it's Hades for you.

There's nothing to twist and turn in the doctrine of being "born of the Spirit". It is what it is, "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
---christan on 2/22/13


"Grace" according to Jesus: "This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." Confirmed by Paul, "for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" See the similarity?

"Grace" is God working in the sinner to believe in Him! That's because the sinner does not have the ability within to believe in God since he's born dead in sin and trespass". That's why He gives the sinner the "gift of faith", because we are told, "without faith it is impossible to please Him"

"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure."
---christan on 2/22/13


I would like to make this observation e.lee, concerning your question.

You have the order of events backwards, or as my Granddad used to say, "you have the cart before the horse".

A person cannot believe in Christ until they are born again.

The Lord quickens the dead and then they are able to follow him. A dead man cannot act. Eph 2:1

The Lord translates us from darkness to the kingdom of His dear Son. - Col 1:3

A baby does not determine when it is born again, God does. - Gal 1:5, John 3:3

Please note in all these cases we are passive and God is active. He acts first and then we respond. This is his effectual calling. Read Jer 31:3
---trey on 2/22/13


"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Ephesians 2:8


---christan on 2/22/13

It again says GRACE is not of yourselves. It doesn't say faith is not of yourselves.

IT again GRACE, cannot be of yourself. It, again is singular.

You cannot die and shed your own blood to atone for your own sin.

STOP taking away the true meaning of God's , Gift of His SON, HE GAVE to die for our sin.

For God so loved the world HE Gave.. The GIFT OF GIVING!

He didn't give FAITH, He GAVE, His Son.

Wasn't that EASY.?
---kathr4453 on 2/22/13


kathr, don't be so quick to call some kindergarten here. we really may be in the second grade. you can tell others how you believe but they may not believe the same as you. everyone thinks they are right but all are not right.
---shira4368 on 2/22/13


"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Ephesians 2:8

OK, let's break this down so a first grader can understand

We are saved "by GRACE", that is God's Riches at Christ's Expense, that is the CROSS. GRACE here in Ephesians means the CROSS, Jesus death and resurrection life that brings salvation alone. So here Jesus again is the GIFT, not faith.

"IT" is the gift, meaning singular. Now where do you get that the "IT" applies to FAITH in this verse and not GRACE?

Otherwise the verse would say THEY are the Gift of God applying to both.

It applies to only one thing here...GRACE!
---kathr453 on 2/22/13


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Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. RIGHT HERE!!

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one, much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ
Ephesians 3:7
Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.


There ya go christan, all there in black and white.
---kathr4453 on 2/22/13


Christan,
Why do you only charge and ask question, yet you never answer questions with a relevant answer?

When will you ever answer?

Exactly how is one born again, yet he still isn't justified?

How is one still ungodly after being born again into a godly person?

If one is born again, yet not justified and saved, what is his fate if he dies in between?

C'mon, man.

Every time you quote a scripture verse, it takes two paragraphs for you to twist the meaning.

Where are some verses that state EXACTLY what you say, word for word, with no aditions or philosophical puke?
---James_L on 2/22/13


"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Ephesians 2:8

And if this verse does not cover each and everyone of the saints including those from the OT, then one is still seriously "dead in the sins and trespass", for the Holy Spirit has still not quickened your very heart to believe but rather one is being hardened.
---christan on 2/22/13


Then comes the hypocrisy when you say, "mystical superstition that God implants an active faith particle into the genes of a man." Why then do you even agree faith is a gift from God? Isn't that a definition of hypocrisy.
---christan on 2/21/13

Christan, the first person we have in scripture demonstrating FAITH, is Abel. Can you show here in Genesis where God established that "this faith" was a gift given to Abel and not Cain, intentionally?

Scripture teaches scripture, and I see nowhere even in Nineveh where these unregenerate people, were "ALL" first given the GIFT of faith to believe Jonah...

They believe Jonah. They KNEW from reports the God of Israel was not someone to take lightly.
---kathr4453 on 2/22/13


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"I don't have to ask. Scripture says faith is a gift from God. BUT, I prefer to believe the scriptures as to HOW it happens, rather than believe your mystical superstition that God implants an active faith particle into the genes of a man." JamesL

Ask anyone to analyze what you have just said in the above quote you wrote and they will tell you it's wreak with hypocrisy.

Firstly you say you agree faith is a gift, which is Scriptural.

Then comes the hypocrisy when you say, "mystical superstition that God implants an active faith particle into the genes of a man." Why then do you even agree faith is a gift from God? Isn't that a definition of hypocrisy.
---christan on 2/21/13


The point is Shira, you cannot BULLY people to believe what you believe, and call them heretics if they don't agree with with you. I don't bully anyone, Markv does. Open your eyes sweetly,

Yes we all can discuss our beliefs and why we believe what we do without being called a heretic. Or getting bent out of shape and say..well, I'm now kicking the dust off my shoes, and won't throw my pearl to the swine anymore, like Christian does.

These are HATEFUL remarks to others.

Open your eyes Shira.

When I bring up the CROSS, the ONLY LIGHT, Markv will forever try to put it out one way or another.
---kathr4453 on 2/21/13


The Christian walk should be characterized by:
1. feeling of being poor in spirit. (We feel to be undeserving of the grace of God.)
2. a sorrow over sin, (this should be accompanied by repentance.)
3. a meek manor, (the very opposite of a haughty spirit.)
4. a hunger and thirst for righteousness, (a desire to follow Christ and keep his commandments.)
5. mercy (a feeling of mercy from God and to freely extend mercy to others.)
6. a pureness of heart, (a feeling that God has made us a new person in Christ.)
7. a peacemaker, (not soon to anger and not contentious.)
8. often true Christians are persecuted and reviled for Christ's sake.
Taken from Matt 5: 3-11
---trey on 2/21/13


Shira, you never read any blogs from the beginning, and THEN make a judgement call. I believe your comment here SHOULD ACTUALLY be addressed to MarkV, for telling ME what I believe is heresy.

I have every right to defend myself, and put him in his place.

You're ALWAYS blinded to markv's words and actions HE MAKES FIRST.

He is the one brow_beating everyone here who disagrees with him.

Yes we are all free to openly discuss our beliefs. I respect those who respect others, regardless of what they believe.

You've made you point Shira, I heard you the first time. I just don 't agree with you here. So take your own advice.
---kathr4453 on 2/21/13


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kathr, you still don't have the right to slam someone just because they don't believe the way you do. that isn't a good testimony on your part. you are the one who must set an example. you must be a light so others may see. I prayed for my husband for 35 years before he was saved. I can tell you if I had slammed him, he would have died in his sin.
---shira4368 on 2/21/13


Unfortunately Christian like all Calvinists don't believe Romans 5 that the GIFT is the GIFT of RIGHTEOUSNESS through Jesus Christ.

They put the emphasis in Ephesians GIFT as FAITH and NOT Jesus Christ, making Jesus Gift, or rather God's GIFT of His son secondary , or not even second place at all. To them GRACE means having their name picked out of a hat.

So they are saved by having their name picked out of a hat, believing themselves the elect, which is the gift. They see the gift as their own personal selection of themselves, NOT JESUS DEATH AND RESURRECTION which makes the gift of righteousness possible.
---kathr4453 on 2/21/13


\\Ever asked yourself: where does the sinner get this faith from? From within or without?\\
---christan

I don't have to ask. Scripture says faith is a gift from God

BUT, I prefer to believe the scriptures as to HOW it happens, rather than believe your mystical superstition that God implants an active faith particle into the genes of a man.

\\You hate the idea the sinner has no ability to save himself.\\
---christan on 2/20/13

That is a lie, for I have never claimed such nonsense

And you still haven't answered any of my questions. Too tough for you, I suppose, because there isn't an answer in the 15 or so bible verses you learned at Calvin Camp
---James_L on 2/21/13


Yes Leon you do, and we know that no one can walk in the Spirit, that is the Spirit of the Life of Christ without first being crucified with Christ. Galatians 5 clearly tell us what the fruit of walking in the Spirit entails, that is: ....."Those who are Christ's HAVE crucified the flesh".

Thank you Leon, you clarified "what" and I clarified "HOW".
---kathr4453 on 2/21/13


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Yes Shira, I agree, Markv's treatment towards his wife was cruel, not letting her believe as she did. And his treatment of others here is also cruel, not letting them believe as they believe.

But it was MarkV himself who bragged here about fighting tooth and nail with his wife until she finally gave in.

What right really did he have interfeering in her faith and relationship with God?

When he married her, she wasn't calvin. after they married THEN he wants to change her. If that were me, I would divorce him under false pretenses and fraud.

How would you like to have married someone who pretended to be save, then find out they were Mormon and beat you down until you came over to their faith?
---kathr4453 on 2/21/13


//Life by the Spirit characterizes the walk of the believer. Please read Galatians 5:13-26 (NIV).
---Leon on 2/20/13
I like that! It is unfortunate that so very many reduce the Christian walk to a mere system of ethics - do and don't. you bring in a fresh breathe of air to this discussion.
---e.lee7537 on 2/20/13


JamesL, your understanding of Romans 4:5 is warped just like all your theology.

You'll notice that "believe and faith" are mentioned in the same verse or in one breath. Ever asked yourself: where does the sinner get this faith from? From within or without? Scripture explicitly declares: "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD"!!!

And before the sinner receives this "GIFT", we are told, "And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins"! You see? "born of the Spirit" comes first in the redemption of the sinner.

You hate the idea the sinner has no ability to save himself.
---christan on 2/20/13


kathr, you don't need to accuse anyone. markv personal life should not be spread here. he can believe any way he wants and neither you or me has a right to slam dunk someone because you really don't know what markv has endured in his life. you can believe the way you want to because I surely believe the way I want to. you are cruel
---shira4368 on 2/20/13


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1st God foreknew (fore-loved us) - Rom 8:29

We see the Everlasting Covenant:
Eph1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
-We were placed in Christ, sanctified in covenant before the foundation of the world.

He predestinated those he fore-loved to salvation before creation. - Rom 8:30.

Vitally we were justified before God upon the cross at Calvary, but from a covenant standpoint before creation. - Rom 8:30

We are effectually called at the new birth. One of the attributes of the fruit of the Spirit is faith. We then have the ability to believe.

One day we will be glorified. - Rom 8:30

---trey on 2/20/13


---And claim you brought salvation to yourself by using you own free will, and because of your wonderful deed, Christ gave you faith, ---.
---Mark_V. on 2/20/13


So markv when did I ever say because of my deed God gave me faith?

Man oh man what a wing nut you are!

MarkV, why did you abuse your own wife fighting with her tooth and nail until she sucummed to your Calvin theology. Was your brow-beating her FAITH or abuse? Can you actually ABUSE one to believe...and you call this faith?

Is that the reason your son wants nothing to do with your view of Christianity.

You claim you do not know Jesus personally, yet want to tell me who Jesus is, as if YOU really know!...

GET OUT OF TOWN!
---kathr4453 on 2/20/13


Life by the Spirit characterizes the walk of the believer. Please read Galatians 5:13-26 (NIV).
---Leon on 2/20/13


Christan,

in your claim that one is born again FIRST, have you considered Romans 4:5?

I have NEVER received an answer to these questions I've been asking for several years.

If one is born again first, then isn't he already godly? Why does scripture say that God justifies the UNgodly?

How can he be born again, yet ungodly?

If he's made godly first, why would he need to be justified?

What is the fate of one who might die after being born again, yet before he's justified?

And again, where is even one bible verse that states your supposed sequence?

You keep quoting that it is not by man's will, and I agree. You can stop quoting that now, and provide the one I've asked for
---James_L on 2/20/13


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Kathr, you talk, argue and speak of the Cross and turn around and proclaim the Son of God is not eternal, bringing heresy and stripping the Son of God of His glory. And claim you brought salvation to yourself by using you own free will, and because of your wonderful deed, Christ gave you faith, then make comments about others when you do not know the God of Scripture. It is written,
"God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved" (John 3:17) The Son is not of this world, He did not become a Son on earth, He always existed.
The Son said,
"For I came down from Heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent Me" (John 6:38).
---Mark_V. on 2/20/13


Christian, you said one is Born again first to believe. So you are saying Jesus has to live in you first before you believe or are justified by His blood. Did you forget, GOD cannot and does not join Himself to a sinner. THAT is why we need to be Justified FIRST. And yes,Samuel, it then all happens at once. To be BORN AGAIN also is that of being brought to the Father...through Jesus Christ, where we cry ABBA FATHER. Christian wants us to believe we cry ABBA Father first, and THEN the Father gives us the ability to believe in His Son. He's misapplying John 6 where Jesus is on earth talking to Jews who were God's elect, where THEY ALONE referred to God as their Father. ..not their "ABBA FATHER. "
---kathr4453 on 2/20/13


Why Simon did not receive the Holy Ghost?

Acts 8:21 "Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God."
His heart was not sanctified. He had heard the words which wash and purify..., John 15:3



1 Corinthians 6:11 "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

Could this be the order?:
1. washed
2. sanctified
3. justified

Isaiah 1 support this?
---Nana on 2/20/13


"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Romans 8:30

Written by the very man who experienced it first hand, Paul was struck down and was converted by the Lord Jesus Christ on his way to persecute Christians in Damascus.

This happened to Paul because he was a "chosen vessel" of God. He was called and then justified by faith in Jesus Christ. From then, Paul was sanctified in his walk as a Christian all the way to the end of his life ("For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.")

Sanctification does not happen before justification, period.
---christan on 2/19/13


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Justification comes first. It is instantaneous. We are declared to be sinless in the eyes of GOD. But at the same time we are given a new nature that enables us to follow JESUS. We are to be new creatures who love the Commandments of GOD and love others. Read First John.

Sanctification is about us become the Saints that we are declared to be. It is an ongoing process.

You forgot to mention Glorification which is when JESUS returns and get to live in the New Earth.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/19/13


Christian, what do you believe comes first? Justification or sanctification?

Do you also know the difference between the two?
---kathr4453 on 2/19/13


See the importance of being "born of the Spirit" first? But who I am to tell you, afterall, you believe even an unregenerate can believe in God's Word, even though Christ declared you cannot unless you're "born of the Spirit".

That being said, time to dust the feet and move on.
---christan on 2/19/13


christan, again you fabricated a verse not found in scripture. NOWHERE does it say that an unregenerate man cannot believe in God's word. Scripture verse please.

If God JUSTIFIES the UNGODLY, then that ungodly man is unregenerate at the time of his justification. Remember Justification is not regeneration of Born Again. Justification is God declaring one NOT GUILTY.
---kathr4453 on 2/19/13


---e.lee7537 on 2/19/13
the only thing in ACT 15 about sabbath is this:
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

If this was written 10 years after the death of Jesus while many Gentiles came into the church, where was the churches that taught on the first day?

Why are they telling gentiles that the word of God is taught every sabbath, if they wanted to discontinue with sabbath?
---francis on 2/19/13


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I don't understand the big deal about the Sabbath.I can worship anyday of the week. it is up for grabs if the Sabbath was mon, tues, thurs, sun. we are just use to going on sunday. God wants us to worship all the time. we need to stay in a state of worship.
---shira4368 on 2/19/13


born //Luke 23:55-56
The women visited the body of Jesus at the tomb. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

yes, no one disagrees with the fact that the earliest Christians being Jewish continiued to observe the laws of Judaism.

However, when Gentiles became believers, a council had to be convened to determine if they also need to convert to Judaism to become legit. Acts 15.

The decision of the council at Jerusalem was that Gentiles need not observe laws that were uniquely Jewish in nature such as the Sabbath, the Levitical food laws, etc.

The Old Covenant with its tenets became obsolete Hebrews 8:13.
---e.lee7537 on 2/19/13


JamesL, the problem with your understanding of who God truly is stems from the very fact that He has not revealed Himself to you, just yet - though it's all written in black and white through His Word. But Christ declared, "It is the Spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

See the importance of being "born of the Spirit" first? But who I am to tell you, afterall, you believe even an unregenerate can believe in God's Word, even though Christ declared you cannot unless you're "born of the Spirit".

That being said, time to dust the feet and move on.
---christan on 2/19/13


francis -I disagree with you that every Christian keeps a Sabbath.
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13

look at your own denomination:

The Sabbath: Plausibility for Presbyterian Pilgrims
John R. Muether

The Sabbath in the OPC

How does the OPC fit into this picture? Rarely is the Sabbath mentioned in descriptions of OPC identity. Yet, despite the relative silence, Sabbatarianism has been a key, if unarticulated, feature of its corporate life, and we can find indirect evidence of the church's commitment to uphold the Lord's Day. Consider, for example, George Marston's booklet, A Communicant Church Membership Course. There he lists five duties of covenant church membership, and the first is keeping the Christian Sabbath
---francis on 2/19/13


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now christan, here is the next step. We today are not eye witnesses to Jesus death and resurrection HOWEVER we are witnesses to His death and resurrection by our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life.

Our very LIFE as a New Creature in Christ WITNESSES to the CROSS. That is why we preach the CROSS, not our own personal election. The power of the Gospel is in the preaching of the CROSS, not the selection of YOU..

We see in Galatians Paul preached, lived and breathed THE CROSS of which he said he was persecuted for.

That too is why he said, "God forbid that I would preach anything BUT Christ and Him Crucified".

His own personal testimony..."I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST!"
---kathr4453 on 2/19/13


Christan,

I suppose you "believe" a lot of things that you're not convinced of?

Warped...yup.
---James_L on 2/18/13


Of "Nowhere in the NewCovenant is there even a hint that breaking the Jewish Sabbath is a sin,"

Luke 23:55-56
The women visited the body of Jesus at the tomb. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

Hebrews 4:9
There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God.

Worship God any and every day, but the day of rest is the seventh day. But what is the seventh day on one side of the planet is not the seventh day on the other and who knows with certainty from the creation of the world, the TRUE Sabbath? People may have lost count. Nonetheless, there is to be a Sabbath rest. That's God's will.
---born on 2/19/13


Christian, I agree here with JamesL. People were CONVINCED of what Joseph Smith said, and look, millions of Mormons.

BUT the problem is, man put their faith in Joseph Smith, and what he said.

We have God's Word. And Faith, true faith in Jesus Christ, comes by Hearing God's word. That is WHY not only the Apostles witnessed the resurrection of Jesus Christ, they testified to it that what was spoken by the prophets WAS TRUE, being convinced that what was preached was in fact TRUE.
---kathr4453 on 2/19/13


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What characterizes believers? The answer, Matthew 13:18-23. All of these characterize believers.

When one does not understand, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in the heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The seed falling on rocky ground, one hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But having no root, they last only a short time. Trouble or persecution come because the word, they quickly fall away. The seed falling among the thorns one hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. But the seed falling on good soil one hears the word and understands it. This is one produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.
---bike on 2/19/13


Again the CROSS is what characterizes a believer. 1st Timothy 3 warn us of those who have a FORM of Godliness but DENY THE POWER. From such trun away. Ok what is this POWER they are denying. Ans, The POWER OF THE CROSS.

To deny teh Power of teh CROSS is to deny our place in death and resurrection life with Christ. The NEW CREATURE is only that which first came out of death with Christ...called resurrection LIFE as we have now In Christ. Being RAISED a New Creature. That New Creature is RAISED now as we speak.

That I may know Him and the fellowship of his suffering, and "the POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION,"being made conformable to His death THAT I MAY attain to the resurrection of the dead. .
---kathr4453 on 2/19/13


"belief happens TO us when we're convinced." JamesL

Convinced? God has to convinced the man made of dust to believe in Him? Are you serious? Sound like you have made yourself higher than the Creator who made you from dust! Mind you, DUST!

And just to knock the final nail into your coffin of vanity and pride - "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:29, "for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" Romans 1:16

You see anywhere that God has to convince the man? Talk about be warped...
---christan on 2/18/13


fruits of the spirit are: love, joy, peace, longsuffering,gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance galatians 5:22
---shira4368 on 2/18/13


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Frances//Ezekiel 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, ...
---
Yes, the nation of Israel fell often into apostasy.

However, the Sabbath, the levitical dietary laws, and circumcision are not applicable to the New Covenant dispensation. .

Unfortunately your guide is olde Ellen who could only peep and mutter as her 'accompanying angel' guided her around.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13


francis -I disagree with you that every Christian keeps a Sabbath. What Christians do is to gather together for communal worship on the Lords day - Sunday.

And that has been what the church has done since its conception.

Where in Scripture do you see commanded of Christians to observe any day as holy? NT book, chapter and verse please.

Unfortunately the church has not always had clear vision when it comes to its doctrine.
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13


Have you noticed that the listing that pertains to those who will not inherit the kingdom does NOT include Sabbath breakers?
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13
//Notice it does not say anything about those who take God's name in vain , nor those who lie with beast, not those who do not honour their parents, nor liars. Are those OK with you

You are foolish to believe that every verse in the Bible provides a listing of all possible sins. However, if you were to read the New Testament you would see that it has much to say about taking Gods name in vain, stealing, honoring parents, etc.
But nowhere in the New Testament do you even see a hint that breaking the Sabbath is a sin.
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13


Ezekiel 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.

Here are some examples of their untempered morater:(Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.)

1: The first day sunday is the christian sabbath
2:Jesus the Christ is their sabbath
3: Every day is the sabbath
---francis on 2/18/13


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Christan,
Whatchu talkin' bout, Willis?

I've said, probably 100 times on this site, that believing something cannot be decided. Did anyone choose to believe the world is round? Or 2+2=4 ??

It's the same with the gospel. It cannot be willed, whether from an unregenerate OR a regenerate.

NOBODY can choose to believe anything. belief happens TO us when we're convinced.

But you still didn't answer my question. Where is the bible verse that shows your warped sequence?

You see, YOU believe that faith is a matter of choice, just like all the free-willers.

The only difference is you've been brainwashed to think that your "choice" can't be made by an unregenerate.
---James_L on 2/18/13


---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13
Have you ever noticed that EVERY christian keeps a sabbath?

Some says that the first day sunday is the christian sabbath

Some say that Jesus the Christ is their sabbath

Some say that every day is the sabbath

Some say: the seventh day [is] the Sabbath of the LORD thy God Exodus 20:10

Does not matter what denomination they go to, people know that they should keep the sabbath day holy.
Some having been taught not to keep the 7th day have their own man made sabbath traditions, but ALL Keep a sabbath

Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
---francis on 2/18/13


Have you noticed that the listing that pertains to those who will not inherit the kingdom does NOT include Sabbath breakers?
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13
Notice it does not say anything about those who take God's name in vain , nor those who lie with beast, not those who do not honour their parents, nor liars. Are those OK with you

You need to stop your follishness. If yu do not want to keep the sabbath, nor any other laws of God THEN DON:T, but do not go about encouraging others to live in sin

So are you Ok with lie
---francis on 2/18/13


1st Corinthians 13. The greatest is love. How that is expressed is based on the individual personality. "The world will know you are my disciples by your love."
---Scott1 on 2/18/13


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The CROSS is what characterized the walk of a Christian.

Some believe if you don't speak in tongues, a sign of salvation, you are not saved,

However, the truth is the true sign of salvation is just exactly how Paul gave us as an expample of one who is saved, shown to us in Philippians 3.

The CROSS is the Power of God, working in and through you, conforming you to His death...not tongues.


However I lke the wording of your question leeJ, WHEN a person comes to Know Christ, that person BECOMES a New Creature AKA Born Again, This certainly does come after one Believes not before.
---kathr4453 on 2/18/13


JamesL, here's what the apostle John declared:

"But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Your "free-will" is debunked when John declared "not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man", meaning, when the sinner believe in Christ, it's because he was "born of God", ie the Spirit of God. Doesn't this "new birth precedes faith"?

And how stupid is it anyways, if you claim to already have faith and you still need to be "born of the Spirit"?
---christan on 2/18/13


One thing is while I was the sort of Catholic that >I< was . . . I could tattle a few no-no's I did, in confession, but be very fearfully in denial about how deeply wrong I was . . . so that I could be building up anger for who knows how long until I just exploded, and then be the bozo, like, how could that happen?

With Jesus, I am able to see and deal with how I can be wrong . . . not just in things I do or say or think, but how I am in character and emotionally.

Jesus says, "you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29)

Love (Romans 5:5) is so better and easily shows up my conceit's criticizing for how inferior it is.
---willie_c: on 2/18/13


Francis //1 Cor 6:9 fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners, shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Have you noticed that the listing that pertains to those who will not inherit the kingdom does NOT include Sabbath breakers?

Nowhere, nowhere in the NewCovenant is there even a hint that breaking the Jewish Sabbath is a sin.

What says you, Francis?
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13


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Joseph //The believer, via the Father's grace, "walk[s] by faith and not by sight," relying on, trusting in, depending upon, and adhering to, the principles that the Father has set forth for mankind.

Very good reply. Your spiritual eyesight is very well developed.

Obviously God's word is part of your very being!
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13


//To say you have to believe first and then become a new creation is to say God saved you by your works (that is because you believe Him). That's simply known as salvation by works and not grace.

I believe God pursues those who are to be saved and they will either reject or accept that salvation offered to them.

In any case, the new creation wrought by God's Spirit instills in the believer a hatred for sin and works within the believer to do His will.

Philippians 2:12-13...work out (not work for) your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13


Christan,

where is the bible verse that gives the order you give?

I'm not asking for any verse that tells WHAT happens, or WHO it happens to, or whether anyone was condemned to hell before the foundation of the earth


I'm asking for any specific verse that states the SEQUENCE that you claim

Where does any verse say that the new birth precedes faith?
---James_L on 2/18/13


elee, I also agree with Christan on the passage you gave in (2 Cor. 5:17). The passage does not say he becomes a new creation, only that he is a new creation.
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ" Only those in Christ, "he is a new creation," Those in Christ are already a new creation.
For it is God who regenerates the sinner who is blind to the truth. Grants him faith and repentance, and when he receives that faith, he acknowledges his faith in the Lord. And he will repent, for he will be convicted by the Spirit concerning his sin. The lost have no faith, only those born of the Spirit do.
---Mark_V. on 2/18/13


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Is that so?

Philippians 3:12-14
Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on... Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me.

John 15:4-8
Remain in me, and I will remain in you...
If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit. If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers, such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask. bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
---bike on 2/18/13


Two things that are necessary in order to our living to Christ: regeneration and reconciliation. I Regeneration: 1. Weanedness from the world, 2. A thorough change of the heart, HE IS A NEW CREATURE. I will add to this, a heart for God. II. Reconciliation: He has reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ Himself--meaning God. He knew no sin- the sacrifice He offered , He was made sin, that is for sin. We had no righteousness of our own, are made the righteousness of God in Him.
---pat on 2/18/13


e.lee, you've got your understanding of redemption upside down. This is why: it's because the sinner who's been "born of the Spirit" (that he's a new creation in Christ) by the grace of God, that after which he will believe in God that His Son Jesus Christ is his Savior.

To say you have to believe first and then become a new creation is to say God saved you by your works (that is because you believe Him). That's simply known as salvation by works and not grace.

Christ simply declared, "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." So, if you want to know a believer from an unbeliever, listen to their testimony of the Word.
---christan on 2/17/13


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