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Standard For Christians

Are the 10 Commandments the standard by which Christians will be judged?

Moderator - The standard is to love God and others and to stay sexual pure (Jerusalem Council).

Join Our Christian Penpals and Take The Ten Commandments Bible Quiz
 ---e.lee7537 on 2/17/13
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Rod4Him, nice try in using Luke 18:9 on what I said to francis with regards to the SDA. You cannot even discern the difference between Luke 18:9 and my comment. I never said in my statement that I wasn't a sinner which the Pharisees were claiming in comparison to the publican or tax collectors.

My comment was that the SDA has no truth in their teachings of the Holy Bible or Jesus Christ. Now, why should I not be thankful to God Almighty for "willing" that I'm not an SDA? You have a problem in my acknowledgment of God's sovereign purpose and will?
---christan on 2/25/13


shira4368 on 2/25/13

Good post keep it up
---francis on 2/25/13


francis, Christians will be judged and so will sinners. God looks at me and He sees the blood. because I am born again, I do try to keep the 10 commandments and also the commandment in the new testament that we should love our neighbor as ourselves. neighbors being the people around you...next door, grocery store, down the street. all these are our neighbors. Jesus said love is the greatest commandment.
---shira4368 on 2/25/13


---christan on 2/25/13
I really did not expect you to get it. I still don't, but here it is

The ten commandments tell us what sin is, rather what righteous living is.

The sanctuary law, law of Moses tells us how God will deal with sin, and how God judges his people

If you want to understand the judgment, look into the law of Moses, and see how God deals with the judgment of those who trusted in the
blood of Jesus

---Rob on 2/25/13
The reason no SDA thinks you were a SDA is because none of what you say about SDA is truth. None of the things you said have been true, i doubt what you posted about being a pathfinder and so on was even true
---francis on 2/25/13


christan, you have no credibilty. You've aligned yourself with the Pharisees.

//francis, and thank God Almighty he did not will that I become an SDA which is heading directly to the broad gate that's fitted for destruction.//

Luke 18:[9] And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: [10]Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. [11]The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
---Rod4Him on 2/25/13




Francis, on 2/22/13 you asked me which is it?

Here is what it is.

I know about being a Pathfinder from personal experience.

I went to Campion Academy, an SDA boarding school.

I went to Union College, an SDA college.

I do know about SDA's from personal experience, from attending Sabbath School, Sabbath Worship, etc.

You are trying to keep myself and others from sharing the truth about you, the truth about SDA's, and exposing your and SDA lies.
---Rob on 2/25/13


"If you really want to understand this judgment of God, you must look into the law" francis

What are you looking into the law for? To be justified by the law? Ain't going to happen!
Paul reminds us, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

God's judgment for breaking His law had only one punishment, "For the wages of sin is death...", and that we have already inherited from our father Adam. What more do you want?

But here's my hope, "...but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." I'll stick with believing in Jesus Christ who's died for my sins.
---christan on 2/25/13


---christan on 2/24/13
Galatians 3:24 the law was our schoolmaster

If you really want to understand this judgment of God, you must look into the law

Here it is: Leviticus 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD

This is the judgment of those who had faith in the blood, who accepted the sacrifice

Hebrews 8:5 OT services is an example and shadow of heavenly things

Hebrews 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is entered..in the presence of God for us:
---francis on 2/25/13


francis, you now say,

"Those who have placed their faith in Jesus, and have confessed their sin, and have repented will be found not guilty"
They are already not guilty, for there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ. When they are saved by grace through faith, they set free from the condemnation of the law. All the unsave are already condemned, they are waiting for the sentencing at the Great White Throne of Judgment. Believers wait for their rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
---Mark_V. on 2/25/13


--christan on 2/24/13
Every one will be judged.

2 Cor 5:10 For we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin AT THE HOUSE OF GOD: and if IT FIRST BEGING AT US, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Those who have placed their faith in Jesus, and have confessed their sin, and have repented will be found not guilty. The Judgment of God starts with those who have placed their faith in Jesus

Have you asked God for forgiveness for your sn, or are you still convined that not keeping the commanments is no sin?
---francis on 2/24/13




francis - thank you for finally admiting you believe the Christian is not saved by grace alone through faith in Christ alone but by works of the law.

Yes, there will be a judgment of our works, but not for our salvation.

1Co 3:13 Every mans work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall try every mans work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:15 If any mans work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

Even the believer that was sleeping with his mother was to be saved.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
---e.lee7537 on 2/24/13


francis, you wrote to demand of such prove and presented it yourself - "...when i post the exact same scriptures to show that christians must keep the laws of God because it is the standrad that all men are judged by." Isn't that prove?

You quote Scriptures and you think that's what the authors are saying when that's not what it means with regards to grace and works.

Anyways, why would God want to judge a Christian when He has given them to His Son for salvation? Isn't that "double jeopardy"? Didn't Christ die for the sins of His people and declared, "IT IS FINISHED"? In the redemption of the Christian sinner as far as God is concerned, the judgement already fell on Christ at Calvary.
---christan on 2/24/13


In essence, the final judgment is on your works making works of the law the basis for salvation.

This is a clear contradiction of Scripture!

What say the Adventists?
---e.lee7537 on 2/24/13
Titus 3:8 [This is] a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.


2 Timothy 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.
---francis on 2/24/13


From Article 19 of the SDA Articles of belief, the Law of God we have the following,

"Salvation is all of grace and not of works, but its fruitage is obedience to the Commandments."

"These precepts are the basis of God's covenant with His people and the standard in God's judgment."

We may conclude that if one does not observe ALL the 10 commandments, that being the STANDARD for Christians, that those that believe themselves to be Christians really are not.

In essence, the final judgment is on your works making works of the law the basis for salvation.

This is a clear contradiction of Scripture!

What say the Adventists?
---e.lee7537 on 2/24/13


---christan on 2/23/13

Let us see whose understanding is really perverted. Show me ONE SINGLE POST where I have ever said that we are saved by keeping the commandments or laws of God.

If you fail to show me one single post where I said that we are saved by keeping the law, then it is your understanding that is perverted, because you are the one claiming that I EVER said that we are saved by keeping the law.

You are not able to say that all these authors are teaching grace mixed with works, but you say that to me when i post the exact same scriptures to show that christians must keep the laws of God because it is the standrad that all men are judged by.


Romans 2:12-16
James 2:12
---francis on 2/24/13


Faith and Love are the standards by which we will be judged. "If you love me, you will OBEY what I command." We will be recognized by our fruit.

1 John 5:3
This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.

The commandments are summed up in "Love your neighbor as yourself." And we love Jesus when we do not want to do what he says? Are we really new creation? Or is there in us the Old Adam?

Romans 13:9
The commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not covet, and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: Love your neighbor as yourself.

Yet we do otherwise.
---bike4335 on 2/24/13


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Faith and Love are the standards by which we will be judged. "If you love me, you will OBEY what I command." We will be recognized by our fruit.

1 John 5:3
This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.

The commandments are summed up in "Love your neighbor as yourself." And we love Jesus when we do not want to do what he says? Are we really new creation? Or is there in us the Old Adam?

Romans 13:9
The commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not covet, and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: Love your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 7:12
The Golden Rule sums it.

Yet we do otherwise.
---bike4335 on 2/24/13


"What do you make of these passages,and do you think these authors are mixing grace with works by teaching believers to keep the commandments of God?" francis

I'll put it straight to your face, the authors of God's Word DO NOT MIX "GRACE" with "WORKS" in regards to salvation, period. Paul went into great length to "distinguish" grace and works in Romans/Galatians 3 and 4.

Your perverted understanding of the verses you quoted does not imply that by "keeping the laws of God", one will be saved but rather they are already saved! It's your continuance about "keeping the commandments" that outweighs "grace", and that's an abomination to God.
---christan on 2/23/13


---e.lee7537 on 2/23/13
OPC teaches that Sunday is the christian sabbath

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

That tells me that you believe that because the apostle gathered to break bread ONE saturday evening, that the christian sabbath is now the first day of the week.

Clearly your doctrine is STRANGE and DIFFERENT from God's, and makes Jesus out to be double minded, having changed his doctrine

Do you not believe that God created all in six days and rested the 7th?

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
---francis on 2/23/13


---e.lee7537 on 2/23/13
OPC teaches that Sunday is the christian sabbath

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

That tells me that you believe that because the apostle gathered to break bread ONE saturday evening, that the christian sabbath is now the first day of the week.

Clearly your doctrine is STRANGE and DIFFERENT from God's, and makes Jesus out to be double minded, having changed his doctrine

Do you not believe that God created all in six days and rested the 7th?

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
---francis on 2/23/13


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---christan on 2/22/13
The SDA choose that name because
1: they were one of the few who kept the seventh day as the sabbath day, along with the seventh day baptist
( other denominations had broad Sabbath teachings: God is our Sabbath, any day is a Sabbath, everyday is a Sabbath, Sunday is the christian Sabbath)

2: They are looking forward to the second advent of Jesus

SDA teach exactly what God commanded about the Sabbath,a very strait and narrow definition: Exodus 20:10 the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God:

If you can tell us what your churrch teaches about the Sabbath, and where in the bible that teaching is found we can determine which was is broad and which is narrow strait
---francis on 2/23/13


//SDA church teaches that the 7th day is the sabbath, what does your church teach about the sabbath, and where can I find that teaching in the bible?
---francis on 2/22/13
Acts 20:7a On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, ...
And from church history we can all too easier see that the early church that was not Jewish, met on the first day of the week. Through it was not a Sabbath, but simply the day they met for communal worship.

SDA scholars as well as other church historians have found this to be true.
---e.lee7537 on 2/23/13


e.lee7537, christan, Rob, Mark_V, shira4368 Lets settle this NOW once and for all:

Ezekiel 22:26 Her priests have violated my law,..and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths,..divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.

All church keep a sabbath!!

Here are some examples of what pastors say concerning the sabbath which the lord have NEVER said:

1: The first day sunday is the christian sabbath
2:Jesus the Christ is their sabbath
3: Every day is the sabbath

SDA church teaches that the 7th day is the sabbath, what does your church teach about the sabbath, and where can I find that teaching in the bible?
---francis on 2/22/13


\\...and thank God Almighty he did not will that I become...\\

Luke 18..."The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are..."
---Rod4Him on 2/22/13


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--christan, What do you make of these passages,and do you think these authors are mixing grace with works by teaching believers to keep the commandments of God?

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus.

Rev 12:17 ..keep the commandments of God, AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 7:19 .. the keeping of the commandments of God.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

Romans 8:7 the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
---francis on 2/22/13


//How many times has Francis and Jerry broke the 9th Commandment.

They are really too blind to see that they break at least one of the 10 commandments every day. And if James 2:10 is true, then they are guilty of being law-breakers.

While they are not under grace but under the law, they will fail the test as the Spirit of God does not indwell such people. All they have is their confounded religion.
---e.lee7537 on 2/22/13


francis, and thank God Almighty he did not will that I become an SDA which is heading directly to the broad gate that's fitted for destruction. Your "holely" doctrine of the SDA wreaks of profane works mixed with the works of Christ, which God Almighty does not take lightly.

You are saying that faith in Jesus Christ is not sufficient for salvation which Paul explicitly contradicts and so too the rest of the Bible. You quote bits and pieces of Scriptures from Ephesians and where else to justify your desperate desire that the law can save which Paul teaches other wise.

But God has a purpose for the SDA and when the time is full, should you die an SDA, you will know what is that purpose.
---christan on 2/22/13


Francis, your taking Matthew 15:25-26, and refering context of dogs as being people is a perfect example of how SDA's do what is written in Romans 1:25
---Rob on 2/22/13


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Matthew 3:8
Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.

That is among the standard for christians.

Matthew 25:40 "whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.

1 Peter 1:15 (HCSB)
But as the One who called you is holy, you also are to be holy in all your conduct,
---born on 2/22/13


francis//I am not sure why this is about 1/10 of the commandments.

Here is what the word of God says
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
****
Especially the commandment that involves circumcision.

One of the commandments of God is that those who belong to His covenant should become physically circumcised. Acts 15:1

Poor stupid semi-illiterate Adventists always believe 'commandments' has to always mean 10 commandments.
---e.lee7537 on 2/22/13


How many times has Francis and Jerry broke the 9th Commandment.

To call a person a female dog in heat, is this not bearing false witness.

---Rob on 2/22/13
Same number of times as Jesus:

Matthew 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

Matthew 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.

You were not raised as a SDA home, you are too often misrepresenting what SDA teach to have been raised in a SDA

You are most likely adopted by SDA parents, and rebelled against God because you hated your real parents or your adopted parents

which is it?
---francis on 2/22/13


---christan on 2/21/13
There is a hole in your doctrine, if you think that Jesus death has put an end to us honouring our father and mother, not committing adultery, not murdering, not having other Gods.
Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more:
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother,

There is an even bigger hole if you have ever believed that keeping the law made any human righteous since Adam's sin. All righteousness after Adam's sin is righteousness by faith!!

And the hole gets even bigger if your doctrine teaches all you need is faith and not to keep the commandments, or continue to sin.

Revelation 14:12 the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus.
---francis on 2/22/13


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How many times has Francis and Jerry broke the 9th Commandment.

To call a person a female dog in heat, is this not bearing false witness.

To say a person was adopted, when they were raised by their biological parents, is this not bearing false witness.

To say a person was not raised in an SDA Church, when they were, is this not bearing false witness.
---Rob on 2/22/13


francis, you quoted a passage that you should take to heart,
"James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
You are guilty of all of them, for you offend in one point, Saturday Sabbath and promoting the written letter of the law.
You want everyone to be under the law and its condamnation, We rather stay save in the arms of the Lord Jesus Christ.
---Mark_V. on 2/22/13


1 John 3:23
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

1 Corinthians 13:13
These three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

John 14:15
If you love me, keep my commands.

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Fathers commands and remain in his love.

2 John 1:6
And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

Luke 7:47
Her many sins have been forgiven as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.
---bike on 2/22/13


"If you are not going to keep all the commandments of God, stop calling yourself a follow of Jesus." francis

Can you not understand: "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."?

Only through faith in Christ is what brings the Christian to heaven, period. Christ's the only One to have fulfilled the laws of God, on behalf of "His people". In the eyes of God, the sinner is deemed to have "kept the commandments of God" through faith.

What you are teaching is otherwise, just like the Pharisees. That's why you keep harping, "If you are not going to keep all the commandments of God" instead of teaching faith in Christ.
---christan on 2/21/13


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I am not sure why this is about 1/10 of the commandments.

Here is what the word of God says
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but ( what is important is) keeping of the commandments of God.

If you are not going to keep all the commandments of God, stop calling yourself a follow of Jesus

1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
---francis on 2/21/13


francis, your spirit is truly one of the Pharisee, whom Jesus warned against, "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do, but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers."
Matthew 23:3,4

Doesn't this sound so familiar to what all your blogs entails?
---christan on 2/21/13


francis, never once in your blogs have you mentioned Matthew 22:36-40, "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."


You see, the "law of love" toward God first and then your neighbour is what matters in the Christian walk. Christ never taught us to obey the law to be saved or His reason for coming would have been in vain. We are told that if we love God, it's because "He first loved us".
---christan on 2/21/13


Let's assume that a person honors the Shabbat, now what else is there to talk about
---Rod4Him on 2/21/13


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Let me highlight these truths:
1: SABBATH STARTED BEFORE THERE WERE ANY JEWS Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it:

2: KEPT BEFORE SANIA Exodus 16:30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

3:AFTER THE CAPTIVITY Nehemiah 13:19 .. there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.

4: KEPT BY JESUS
Luke 4:16.. as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day,

5: KEPT BY PAUL AND GENTILES Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

6: WILL BE KEPT IN HEAVEN:
Isaiah 66:22 the new heavens and the new earth,.. from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
---francis on 2/21/13


While old testament law the 10 commandments should be obeyrd.While impossible to do all of the time.Our goal should be to do it and also pattern our lives after Jesus.Do not live under condemnation but never stop trying.
---shirley on 2/21/13


---e.lee7537 on 2/21/13
---christan on 2/20/13
FULFILMENTS BY JESUS
Earhly sanctuary >Hebrews 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Earthly high priest> Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come,

Lamb > John 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Light > John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Veil > Hebrews 10:20 that is to say, his flesh,

Oil* > Matthew 25:4 wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

Bread > John 6:48 I am that bread of life.

Water > John 4:13 , Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again
---francis on 2/21/13


//Lets see what the bible says:Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Obviously Adventists do not believe Jesus fulfilled anything, especially our atonement on the Cross.

//James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

And if you live under the law, you will be condemned for that is what the law does.

On the other hand,if you believe like it states in the Bible that the law was but a schoolmaster, then you would strive to live by faith in Christ alone.
---e.lee7537 on 2/21/13


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frances ////Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

And such were those required under the Old Covenant dispensation. But Christians are not under the Old Covenant.

//Once again Adventist and BIBLE ate walking step in step

The primary here is the Adventists, their interpretation governed by those who know little of the Bible nor its Author.

Your problem is obvious in that you believe there is no distinction between the Old and New Covenant. What Jesus said to those under the law, is quite different than what the Spirit of Jesus says under grace.
---e.lee7537 on 2/21/13


"But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy GodExodus 20:10" francis

That was because the person of Jesus Christ who is the sabbath was concealed from the nation of Israel, just like how it still is concealed to you, even when we have the complete Bible which Israel then didn't have. That's why you are still like the Israelites still trying so hard to obey the laws of God to be saved.

Now with the NT - it's been revealed and we are told by none other than the Lord Jesus Christ (who came in the flesh) what and who the sabbath was pointing to: "For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day." Meaning, the Christian now find their rest not on a day but IN the Lord Jesus Christ.
---christan on 2/20/13


//So whom do you follow:
the OPC with sunday sabbath,
or Your doctorial student with any day sabbath
or God?

Easy enough question to answer.

What we should all follow is the Bible especially what is mentioned in the New covenant.

And silly boy, there is nothing nothing nothing in the New Covenant that commands or even hints that we need to observe any day as holy.

The early church did not do the Jewish Sabbath, and it is obvious that since the church no longer observed the Sabbath by the end of hte first century, we can say that the Apostles and their immediate successors did not teach observance of the Sabbath.
---e.lee7537 on 2/20/13


What Adventists claim is that if you are a legitimate Christian, born of God's Spirit, then you will observe ALL the 10 commandments, including the Sabbath.
---e.lee7537 on 2/20/13
Lets see what the bible says:

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Once again Adventist and BIBLE ate walking step in step

the whole law, all the commandments, and not one jot shall fail
---francis on 2/21/13


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The OPC has as it fundamental creed the Westminster Confessions which advocated observance of the Sunday Sabbath.

However,.. my OPC pastor.. agrees with me that the scripture does not command the observance of any day.
---e.lee7537 on 2/19/13

So whom do you follow:
the OPC with sunday sabbath,
or Your doctorial student with any day sabbath
or God?

Like I said EVERY christian denomination has a sabbath

few have the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God Exodus 20:10
Some clain everyday, some clain any day, some say jesus is the sabbath, soem clain sunday as their sabbath
But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy GodExodus 20:10
---francis on 2/20/13


Are the 10 Commandments the standard by which Christians will be judged?
---e.lee7537 on 2/17/13
follower, are you and francis brothers? both of you can't post anything but the 10 commandments.
---shira4368 on 2/19/13

the very blog question not written by either of us is about the ten commandments.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

shira4368 are you doing your whole duty to God?
---francis on 2/20/13


//follower, are you and francis brothers? both of you can't post anything but the 10 commandments. my salvation goes way way beyond that and it is much more simple than trying to keep the law.

What Adventists claim is that if you are a legitimate Christian, born of God's Spirit, then you will observe ALL the 10 commandments, including the Sabbath.

So they view you as either a non-christian, an imposter or one that has been led asray.

To the Adventists, the 10 commandments is the standard by which those in Christ will be judged. We can easily see that in their Investigative Judgment doctrine - a belief held only only only by Adventism.
---e.lee7537 on 2/20/13


follower, are you and francis brothers? both of you can't post anything but the 10 commandments. my salvation goes way way beyond that and it is much more simple than trying to keep the law. I admit we should live by the commandments but my salvation didn't come because of the 10 commandments.
---shira4368 on 2/19/13


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"600 Mosaic laws abolished by Lord Jesus,Colossians 2:14 because these were a burden only 10 laws remain" FOC

"Abolished by the Lord Jesus"? Says who? Says you?

This is what Christ declared, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matthew 5:17

Colossians 2:14 says, "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross"

Do you even understand the meaning of "Blotting out"? It does not say "abolish"
---christan on 2/20/13


Frances //Rarely is the Sabbath mentioned in descriptions of OPC identity.

The OPC has as it fundamental creed the Westminster Confessions which advocated observance of the Sunday Sabbath.

However, in a discussion with my OPC pastor who is working on his doctorate degree, he agrees with me that the scripture does not command the observance of any day.

What we basically have is communal worship on Sundays and that in accordance to what scripture encourages to do. Hebrews 10:25.

We do believe that if one choses to observe a particular day as holy, then that is one of the freedoms believers have in christ.
---e.lee7537 on 2/19/13


//Only those who keep his 10 laws (His will) have the love of God 1 John 2:5,17

Simply not true since the church from the end of the first century no longer observed the OT sabbath, considering it to be no under the Old Covenant laws.

Truly if the church was to observe the Jewish Sabbath we would most certainly see it commanded in the Epistles as well as taught in the early church by the successors of the Apostles.

Sorry to bust you bubble on this issue, but I can see no support for your position either in scripture or in church history.
---e.lee7537 on 2/19/13


Galatians 5:4
"... you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace"

Acts 13:39
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

600 Mosaic laws abolished by Lord Jesus,Colossians 2:14 because these were a burden only 10 laws remain

Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/19/13


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You do not know the Lord Jesus if you do not keep Gods 10 laws 1 John 2:3

If you claim you know the Lord Jesus and do not keep his 10 perfect laws you are a liar with no truth 1 John 2:4

Only those who keep his 10 laws (His will) have the love of God 1 John 2:5,17

There are no new commandments these 10 laws are the same as from the beginning 1 John 2:7

The written Word of God says you cannot know the Lord Jesus unless you keep his 10 laws, and this is a spiritual truth, known only to those who obey Acts 5:32, John 4:23,24 John 14:17 16:13

Those without the Lord Jesus are not obeying his 10 laws and have the spirit of disobedience Ephesians 2:2 5:6
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/19/13


---e.lee7537 on 2/18/
The Sabbath: Plausibility for Presbyterian Pilgrims
John R. Muether

Rarely is the Sabbath mentioned in descriptions of OPC identity. Yet, despite the relative silence, Sabbatarianism has been a key, if unarticulated, feature of its corporate life, and we can find indirect evidence of the church's commitment to uphold the Lord's Day. Consider, for example, George Marston's booklet, There he lists five duties of covenant church membership, and the first is keeping the Christian Sabbath. Witnessing the drift in Sabbath keeping in other parts of American Protestantism, the Presbyterian Guardian, did not keep silent about its importance, publishing over two dozen articles and editorials on the Sabbath
---francis on 2/19/13


Francis//Romans 6:15 What then? shall we have other gods, make graven images and bow down to them, take the name of the LORD God in vain, not keep the sabbath day holy, dishonour our father and our mother, kill, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness,and covet, because we are not under the law, but under grace?
---
So sorry guy but Romans 6:15 as well as all other verses found in the New Testament does NOT mention the Sabbath as anything that is remotefully sinful.

The Sabbath went out with physical circumcision- neither being required of His Church.

Suggest you try reading the New Testament without the Ellen White blinders.
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13


The Christian is not under the law.
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we have other gods, make graven images and bow down to them, take the name of the LORD God in vain, not keep the sabbath day holy, dishonour our father and our mother, kill, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness,and covet, because we are not under the law, but under grace?
---francis on 2/18/13


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Francis //So we know that the law of which James speaks as the law of liberty is the ten commandments.

While it is true that James list some of the 10 commandments in (2:11),

we do know that he does not limit sin to these commandments.

(2:8-9) But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you are doing well.

James also states For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

So if under the law you will be under its condemnation. The Christian is not under the law.
---e.lee7537 on 2/18/13


I don't think the Ten Commandments are the standad we will be judged by. Jesus said be you holy as I am holy therefore He is telling me that it is possible to be holy if not He wouldn't have said it if its impossible. We will be judge by the standard that Jesus left for us,to be holy as He is,and to keep His Gospel message and standards. Belief in Him,His Word,faith,love,and obedience will help us do that.
---Darlene_1 on 2/18/13


Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things, and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him,

Those who follow the Lord Christ Jesus understand the spiritual standard is obedience, as it will be in Gods Kingdom on earth when the Lord returns, through his 10 just laws
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/18/13


All will be judged by the ten commandments, the law of liberty:

Psalms 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments. I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.

Psalms 119:43 I have hoped in thy judgments. So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever. And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts. And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved

The born again will be at liberty not only because he keeps the ten commandments, but rather because when he failed to keep then, he saught forgiveness and God is faithful to forgive
---francis on 2/18/13


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"Are the 10 Commandments the standard by which Christians will be judged?"

A Christian is still judged even though he's saved by the grace of God through faith in Christ? "...who hath bewitched you? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. AND THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them."
---christan on 2/18/13


"Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith," (1 Timothy 1:5)

We have our Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit as our love example-standard of how to love and relate >

"Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:1-2)

"that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love" (in Ephesians 1:4)

And God has His leaders who are our "examples" > 1 Peter 5:3 > 1 Timothy 3:1-10 > of His standard for all of us .
---willie_c: on 2/18/13


"Are the 10 Commandments the standard by which Christians will be judged?" No.
E. Lee "Christians" have been "justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. To declare, [I say], at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. [There is] therefore now no 'condemnation' (damnatory sentence) to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom.3:19-29>Rom.8:1
---Josef on 2/18/13


James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

The Phrase " Law of Liberty" did not originate with James. It is taken from the OT:

Psalms 119:43 for I have hoped in thy judgments. So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever. And I will walk at liberty: And I will delight myself in thy commandments, which I have loved.

Associated with the law of liberty in the book of James are these two commandments

James 2:11 Do not commit adultery, Do not kill.

So we know that the law of which James speaks as the law of liberty is the ten commandments.

Both Psalms and James tells us that this is the standard of Judgment
---francis on 2/17/13


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Many people will always insist on loving the bible instead of GOD ALONE, but that is not "acceptable worship" (Mark 12:31).

There needs to be a new generation of "WORSHIPER" with a new standard/paradigm of not needing to be "commanded" in order that "good" may happen (we have no obligation to FORCE good to happen). Our worship of GOD is not to include, involve, or be dependent on PEOPLE (it's only between God and ourselves).

...be a "lover of goodness" (Titus 1:8).

Don't simply be a "believer", be a WORSHIPER. Our goal should be acceptable worship, Hebrews 12:28 "let us offer to God acceptable worship".

Romans 1:21 "honor him AS GOD".
---more_excellent_way on 2/17/13


To love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself.
---Trish on 2/17/13


Correct the Bible is the standard for Christians. The Bible includes the Ten Commandments but even more important the life of Christ who is to be our example. Live like JESUS. WWJD.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/17/13


Standard For Christians
---e.lee7537 on 2/17/13

Isaiah 8:20 To the law AND to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1 Cor 7:19 .. what is important is keeping of the commandments of God

Rev 12:17 keep the commandments of God, AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 the saints: keep the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, AND keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
---francis on 2/17/13


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Hebrews 11:6
Without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Romans 4:3
Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Matthew 25:40 Inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me.

John 14:6
No one comes to the Father except through me.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love.
---born on 2/17/13


Well, No. God will not judge the born-agains, aside from what we do with our gifts. The curse has been lifted if you are saved. The Ten Commandments can not be kept except by the grace of God upon the believer. [He has to help you]. If you live a life-style of Adultery, Murder, Coveting, ect, then you cannot in all good honesty claim to love God and people. If you are saved, and you break one of the Ten Commandments, which I have, you must be quick to ask God for forgiveness. Note: It's interesting that God places gossipers right up there among the murderers and the thieves in the Bible. Really do study the Ten Commandments. a lot more involved than meets the eye. Man, how we need God.
---pat on 2/17/13


The Bible is the only standard for the Christian.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If you don't have a standard to check your actions, you don't know if what you do is accurate of not. The Bible is the only standard the Christian has to check their accuracy. (Side note: make sure the Bible is a translation and not a paraphrase. My personal choice for a Bible is The New American Standard Bible.)
---wivv on 2/17/13


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