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Who Is The Author Of Sin

Who is the author of sin? If GOD is holy and righteous, why would he make a being (Lucifer), when GOD knew later in time Lucifer would rebel against Himself. Later would cause the fall of men which would be the result of many of people being forever punished in hell.

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Christan, you are so confused, it's the SERPENT in the wilderness that teaches free will...not the golden calf...SILLY. Everyone knows that. May want to study about the serpent in the wilderness.

John 3:14-17
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.
---kathr4453 on 3/3/13


Oh poor Christan, no one in the OT was Born Again. The promise of the Spirit was a NEW COVENANT Promise. I know you are totally confused about the Covenants, and just proved just how confused you are. You might want to stop here and not continue on making a fool out of yourself.

The Last man Adam, who is Jesus Christ is that quickening spirit. When do you believe the Last MAN ADAM came, OT or a little over 2000 years ago. IF you again tell us "the MAN " Christ Jesus was in the OT, then you are MORMON..period.
---kathr4453 on 3/3/13


Kathr,
"We love Him because He first loved us" (1 John 4:19). Only those that belong to the Father love Christ,
"Jesus said to them, "if God were you Father, you would love Me..." (John 8:42).
Why do the lost not love Christ?
"Why do you not understand My speech? because you are not able to listen to My Word." (John 8:43). They are not able to hear the words of the Lord. The lost have a different father
"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of you father you want to do." How can the lost come to Christ when they are doing the desires of their father the devil? Jesus said their will is inslave to the devil, you say it's not, that it is free.
---Mark_V. on 3/3/13


But in their request to Aaron to make them a god, they explained that they wanted a god to lead them because they did not know what had become of Moses, who led them out of Egypt (Exodus 32:1). implying that they wanted the calf to replace Moses, apparently in his role as mediator of God's presence to the people.

They were already His People, He just delivered out of Egypt.

Now the GOLDEN CALF really represents any professing Christan who placed another mediator between God and man, than Jesus Christ.

YOU CHRISTAN have a golden calf called JOHN CALVIN. YOU are guilty of worshiping a golden calf.
---kathr4453 on 3/3/13


But getting back to free will, the SERPENT in the wilderness represents free will.

May want to refresh yourself there and also compare John 3 :14-17.

For Pete sakes Christan, when will you ever stop making a fool of yourself?
---kathr4453 on 3/3/13




""Is this not something you must decide? Unless you repent or you perish!" Ruben

This how you ASSUME you have a "free-will" to decide? How so? Where does it even say so? Let me ask, God commanded, "Be ye holy, for I am holy." You telling us you can decide to choose if you want to be holy or not? Really?

Have you not heard, "It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing: THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU, THEY ARE SPIRIT, AND THEY ARE LIFE." Know what this means? I'll help, WITHOUT "REGENERATION", you're not going to do anything that's pleasing in the sight of God, period!

Israel tried and failed miserably, and you can?
---christan on 3/2/13


Brother MarkV, let me share something with you. Remember the golden calf at the foot of Sinai? That's nothing compared to the "spiritual golden calf" that's been erected today called "free-will".

Here's a discourse between the Israelites and Joshua, "God forbid that we should forsake the Lord, to serve other gods, therefore will we also serve the Lord, for he is our God.

And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the Lord: for he is an holy God, he is a jealous God, he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins."


Sound familiar to what's happening here?
---christan on 3/2/13


Good question Ruben, but it appears Markv who believes himself to be the total authority in the Word, says, only those God programmed beforehand to repent can repent.

Otherwise it would be a choice we make.

Markv and Christan also fails to realize the LAW OF MOSES, is / was the absolute proof of free will. Although these were dead in sin, they were still, given earthly blessings based on obedience.
---kathr4453 on 3/2/13


I believe most will agree here that Markv and Christan's god is not the God of Scripture. THEIR god is a respector of persons. OUR GOD is not.

Their god planned murders, and child rape and made man do these things, because man has no free will or a conscience to know right from wrong.

Your WILL consists of your conscience, intelligence, and personality, being made after the image of God. If we're robots, so is God.
---kathr4453 on 3/2/13


Kathr, I don't think you have even been listening. The reason you say,

"Can you show us in scripture God created all TO DO evil, without the free will to do evil?"

Hear it again, human beings do not have free will. God never mentioned free will of man so how can I show it to you? Hello? are you even there?
---Mark_V. on 3/1/13




except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Has the message of the Gospel changed?
---christan on 3/1/13

Is this not something you must decide? Unless you repent or you perish!
---Ruben on 3/1/13


The first ADAM God breathed into his nostrils and he became a living SOUL.

You use BORN AGAIN as man's spirit being rebirthed, as in Hinduism, not Born of God as SONS begotten through Jesus Christ being brought INTO GLORY via the CROSS. Adam & Eve were never sons as WE are. THEY were earthly, carnal made out of earth. WE however are a NEW CREATURE, born from ABOVE. Born of the Spirit of the LIFE OF CHRIST in you, not you having a rebirthed man spirit you claim died in Adam.
YOU claim YOU were Born from ABOVE before ever being IN CHRIST. IMPOSSIBLE!

Your definition of Born Again is fictitious .

Adam & Eve were never FIRST born from above.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/13


-----------

All of God's covenants from Noah, Abraham, Moses, King David to finally Jesus Christ can be summed up in one covenant called grace. The covenants were made between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit for the salvation of His people. It didn't require the man to "agree or accept" but to believe, and by His gift of faith - they will believe!
---christan on 3/1/13

That's where you are TOTALLY WRONG, and why your doctrine is so off the wall. The LAW of Moses is not GRACE. The LAW of Moses was made with ISRAEL alone...the LAW that pointed to SIN, that pointed to REDEMPTION. There is no ONE COVENANT called the Covenant of GRACE. Calvin made that one up.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/13


1 Corinthians 15:45-55
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul, the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural, and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy, the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/13


Brother MarkV, when someone says "Jesus was not fully God fully man in the OT", it's a red flag of their understanding of the Word. Is there such a thing as "Jesus was not fully God"? Let's see...

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

We're explicitly told Jesus "was the Word and the Word was God." ie, in Him was the covenant of grace, "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons." Jesus was God's greatest act of predestination.
---christan on 3/1/13


Kathr, you twist the passages in (1 Cor. 15:45) to sound religious,

"The first Adam was a life giving soul, the LAST Adam is that life Giving Spirit. That which was FIRST WAS NOT SPIRITUAL BUT CARNAL..
---kathr4453 on 3/1/"


The first Adam was "not a life giving soul" but "was made a living soul" The last Adam was "not a life giving spirit" but "was made a quickening spirit" Jesus in His humanity, His incarnation.
Also that which is carnal is of the flesh, and the flesh dies.
That which is spiritual is of the Spirit, and never dies. Jesus Christ is of the Spirit and has risen for ever. Just as Christ has risen, so will all those born of the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 3/1/13


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Markv, I can grab scripture here and there to say what I want too!

God speaks to man through His Word. God draws man through His Word. Those who have LEARNED and been taught ..

No one was allowed inside the Holy of Holies in the OT except the High Priest. ..showing a veil that separated God from man.

Jesus is that veil, and we now enter through the veil, that is to say His Flesh. Hebrews 10.

You simply have the cart before the horse. Jesus brings you to God, not the other way around. We live after the cross Markv.
Jesus was not fully God fully man in the OT.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/13


JamesL, your ignorance is in full bloomed and it's not even spring. I'm talking about salvation by faith, which God will save all His elect in the same manner as He did from Abel, Noah, Abraham etc. to the last saint - and you're talking about "tongues"?

Fine, you wanna talk about "tongues", here, digest this: "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail, WHETHER THERE BE TONGUES, THEY SHALL CEASE, whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." Understand the meaning of "CEASE"? Paul's words, not mine written two thousand years ago.

You're more caught up with "tongues" than the salvation of a soul through faith in Christ.
---christan on 3/1/13


Kathr, you also say,
"God created Adam & Eve. He did not create them to do evil either.".
What you are saying is that Adam and Eve shocked God by disobeying. He didn't know what was coming. Almighty God was not prepared to deal with evil. The reason you fail to see the God of the Bible is because you are far from God. ----
---Mark_V. on 3/1/13


So are you then saying God created Adam & Eve to do evil, just like God created Satan to do evil?

Can you show us in scripture God created all TO DO evil, without the free will to do evil?

I see the God of scriptures as God has revealed Himself to me THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.

You see God revealed through CALVIN.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/13


Brother MarkV, talking to "free-willers" about the covenants of God is literally barking up the wrong tree. That's because they do not believe in the sovereign election and predestination by God Almighty, so how can they believe that God has covenanted His elect to His Son?

All of God's covenants from Noah, Abraham, Moses, King David to finally Jesus Christ can be summed up in one covenant called grace. The covenants were made between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit for the salvation of His people. It didn't require the man to "agree or accept" but to believe, and by His gift of faith - they will believe!
---christan on 3/1/13


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Mark V,

I was merely making the point that whether or not OT saints were born again has nothing to do with whether or not Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Christan had said:
\\Obviously some here thinks God operates differently in the OT as in the NT and yet we are explicitly told, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."\\

He believes that the Holy Spirit gave the gift of tongues 2,000 years ago, but is not doing so today.

So God is "operating" differently now. By Christan's own words, he must believe that Jesus is not the same now.

He was caught in an ignorant comparison, and I pointed it out. That's not an insult, it's the truth
---James_L on 2/28/13


trey, before you jump in, please read our discourse. It's I who quoted Hebrews 13:8 to confirm Jesus is God and that He doesn't change - that salvation from the first saint to the last is only by faith, to which many objected... do you?

This was JamesL reply, "What does God BEING the same have to with how He "operates" ??" Obviously, his lack of understanding of God is a giveaway.

Yes, God have spoken in "divers manners" (that I do not question) but if you follow the Word from the beginning, you'll notice the message has always been the same from the time of the fall, that is, "except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Has the message of the Gospel changed?
---christan on 3/1/13


Shira, before I go on here with you, and since I believe in ORIGINAL SIN, that in ADAM all die, YOU were the one who came against me in another blog disputing me there stating God created more people AFTER Adam and Eve, and I was wrong and should get on my knees then and repent. I also clearly said NO ONE was born righteous.

So maybe you should get on YOUR knees and repent of either playing games here with me, because you always have ? Shira, the very first words out of your mouth to me a year ago were hateful, and they continue to be hateful.

So, before pulling anything out of my eye, which God NEVER asked you to do, He said pull the log out of your own.
---kathr4453 on 3/1/13


Kathr, here is what you said,

"Here are the cold hard FACTS. Every human is in bondage to DEATH and satan UNTIL one comes to God through Jesus Christ."

And they will not come to Christ unless God makes them able to come to Christ. God has to draw them to Himself first, before they can go to Christ (John 6:44).
For they asked, who can be saved?
"But Jesus looked at them and said, "with men it is impossible, but not with God, for with God all things are possible" (Mark 10:27).
"And those who heard it said, "Who then can be saved? But He said, the things which are impossible with men are possible with God" (Luke 18:26,27).
---Mark_V. on 3/1/13


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Bro, Trey, I believe you and James L did not get what Christan was referring to. When we say God is the same yesterday, today and forever, that is speaking of who God is. It is not speaking about how He has operated from the beginning with different people. His covenants have changed through time. But the conditions for salvation remain the same. Salvation is by grace through faith, in the Old and in the New Testaments. When God says, He will change His action towards someone, it does not indicate He has changed His mind, for He is Omniscient, knowing all actions. It is a method He uses to turn someone, or because He is righteous and gave them an opportunity and they did not take it. But the result He already knew.
---Mark_V. on 3/1/13


IF ADAM had no free will, he was already in bondage to SIN from the moment God created him...according to the Calvinists theory.
Will we not have free will in the New Heaven and earth? Is it because our wills will then be in bondage to righteousness?

The SOUL that sinneth, IT SHALL DIE....

God never told Adam & Eve, that their SPIRIT would die. That part is made up by Calvinists.

They just ASSUME to be "Born Again " seeing "AGAIN must mean a second time around.

That 's not what John 3 is even saying.

The first Adam was a life giving soul, the LAST Adam is that life Giving Spirit. That which was FIRST WAS NOT SPIRITUAL BUT CARNAL..
---kathr4453 on 3/1/13


Kathr, you also say,
"God created Adam & Eve. He did not create them to do evil either.".
What you are saying is that Adam and Eve shocked God by disobeying. He didn't know what was coming. Almighty God was not prepared to deal with evil. His plan was corrupted by Adam, Eve and Satan. So He had to change His plan, everytime Satan, and man make a move God has to change His plan to allow man and satans actions. That is shear nonesense. The reason you fail to see the God of the Bible is because you are far from God. The Spirit is no where near you. What else can one conclude? Your god is not God. If one thing is unknown to God then He is not God but a god of some sort like the Jehovah Witnesses god.
---Mark_V. on 3/1/13


christian, may I just echo your thoughts concerning God and state this:

God always has and always will operate in the same manner:
Heb13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Mal3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
(sons of Jacob - those loved by the Lord, his elect.)

James_L is correct in that the Lord has spoken to us in different manners through the ages, but he remains the same. He is the "I AM".
---trey on 2/28/13


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"No, actually the bible is all about the glory of God." JamesL

Of course it's about the glory of God... in the salvation of His people. I never denied that. Only in Christianity is salvation all 100% of God and 0% from man (apart from the fact that he just sin and sin).

"And you're the one who equated the way God "operates" to Him being the same yesterday, today, and forecer."

Are you in stupor of who God is? Let me help, God is spirit and He's eternal, meaning timeless. Nothing can stand in His way and that's because He's the creator of time, space and matter. He doesn't operate in time like we do. So much for you claiming you know who God is.
---christan on 2/28/13


Hmmm.... "And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins", meaning - the Spirit has to raise the sinner to life because his spirit is dead to God - "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

But some say, "Every human is in bondage to DEATH and satan UNTIL one comes to God through Jesus Christ." So out of curiosity, outside of being born of the Spirit, how does one go to "God through Jesus Christ" while they're classified DEAD to God?

Oh right, they have "free-will"! So why then would they need the Spirit and even bother going to Christ since they can raise themselves from the DEAD! Weird.
---christan on 2/28/13


kathr, we are born sinners. how do you explain children who rebel. we are all evil unless we are born of the Spirit. when we are saved, the Spirit of God wars with the flesh against evil. I don't know why you think otherwise. stop being so legalistic. it "ain't" getting you no where but down the lane you walk called "pride". I have never seen anyone who is so condescending to people you don't even know. you need to get on your knees and pray for humility. we are tried in the fire to mold us and get impurities out of us...we are the molded. when Christ gets finished with us, we will be pure gold.
---shira4368 on 2/28/13


Yes Shira, I agree, it is impossible that God created man for evil. This is what Markv and Christan are teaching here. PO POOING James that man is drawn away by his own lusts and desires.

God created Adam & Eve. He did not create them to do evil either. They made a free will choice to believe Satan, and disobey God, whereby DEATH came upon all men. When death came upon men, the inclination of the heart of man without God is towards evil.

The war over man is between God and Satan. Do you really believe for one minute God wants to lose one single soul to Satan. NO NO a thousand times NO.

Shira, I would appreciate it if you would read these posts more carefully before mis-interpreting anyone's post.

Thank you!
---kathr4453 on 2/28/13


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Here are the cold hard FACTS. Every human is in bondage to DEATH and satan UNTIL one comes to God through Jesus Christ.

So curse, spit and accuse all you want MarkV. Jesus came to SAVE man from "DEATH". No one was created FOR DEATH. Man has a choice to choose life or death.



Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil,

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels, but he took on him the seed of Abraham---
---kathr4453 on 2/28/13


kathr, God did not create men to evil. where do you read that in scripture? God created man for His glory but satan being cast down to earth began working on God's creation. man sinned and God made a way for man to be redeemed. all thru the old testament is the lineage of Jesus Christ how satan tried to destroy the bloodline of Jesus Christ. When Christ died on the cross He defeated death, hell and the grave for us to be redeemed. It is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. it all seems so simple but men make it complicated. there is plenty of meat in God's Word but many are still sucking a bottle.
---shira4368 on 2/28/13


Isn't the Bible all about salvation?
---christan on 2/27/13

No, actually the bible is all about the glory of God

And you're the one who equated the way God "operates" to Him being the same yesterday, today, and forecer.

I was merely pointing out that God has operated in various way at varoious times (Hebrews 1:1-2)
---James_L on 2/28/13


James L, I'm suprise at your answers and now say,
"There are implications to every ignorant thing you say"
Of course there is to you also. Big ones. I've given Scripture, Christan has given Scripture. And what do both of you give? Nothing but more insults. You did not use to be that way. Kathr believes she does have free will because she can say what she wants, but let me tell you that her will is inslave to sin and she doesn't even realize it. All of Kathr's words are insults and hate. She thinks her will is free but she is inslave to sin and cannot stop. The lost are also inslave to sin, and they have not been made by God to realize they are in sin.
I can see by her fruits the Spirit is no where near Kathr.
---Mark_V. on 2/28/13


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Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him,

Funny here says nothing about unto ALL that were prechosen. Even Jesus had to leard obedience through the things he suffered, Yet, these calvinists don't believe WE TOO are to keep this mind in us that was also in Christ Jesus...

Hebrews 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did, by the which we draw nigh unto God.


Speaking of the word MADE PERFECT or MADE, let's talk about this.

Do you even know what this means? Probably not. It has to do with the CROSS...not election, although we know Jesus was THE ELECT of all ELECT!!
---kathr4453 on 2/28/13


No Christan, you are the only one who can't see James for the truth.

God did not CREATE anyone after Adam & Eve, ...some created for good and some created for evil. Get a grip!

That's where your cheese just slipped off your cracker.

That verse You quote YOU don't understand. It says noting about God making "individual people" for evil.
---kathr4453 on 2/28/13


There are some who use James 1:12-14 with lack of understanding to what James is teaching. Of course God does not tempt, that's because He's Holy and cannot sin.

But here's the kicker right in the middle: Solomon declares to us that "The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." No commentary or translation needed here.

And yet these so-called "christians" continue to deny what Solomon has declared to be false. And if God did not create the wicked to do evil, who did? I'll wait for an answer though I doubt anyone would dare try contradict Solomon.
---christan on 2/28/13


christian, would you please re-read my post. In no way did I implicate our holy and righteous God.

Please re-read my post.

Thanks,
Trey
---trey on 2/27/13


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trey, Romans 5:12 does not imply who the "author" of sin is but rather who the transgressor was and what the transgression did to mankind. In short, Adam wasn't the author of his own transgression but the "actor" of the story of "what happens when you sin against a Holy God".

The books in the Holy Bible were written by the prophets of God telling us of His story about His creation and more importantly about how sin entered into His creation and that He has provided a way to forgive His people through His anointed in the form of His Son who became a man. Like they say, the rest is HIStory.
---christan on 2/28/13


kathr, I am surprised at seeing you here. I have missed seeing your insults. when did I build up someone to tear down? you don't know what you are talking about. I think your brain has died and you are trying to make it function once more. everything I say comes from my the heart and my bible. show me one thing where I build up someone to tear them down????pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese
---shira4368 on 2/28/13


So Christan, how do you measure your own philosophy against God's Word here?

Folks, don't get spoiled through philosophy and vain DECEIT. Stay with scripture.
James 1:12-14

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and desires.
---kathr4453 on 2/28/13


1 Corinthians 4:6
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes, that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

Don't you find getting drawn into these GNOSTIC CONVERSATIONS, Christan, markv love to draw you into a place of disobedience? They do think so much more of Calvin than the very Word of God.

No verse says explicitly who authored sin.

However it does say who authored salvation. Lets talk about THAT...salvation!!!
---kathr4453 on 2/28/13


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kathr, Jesus is the narrow way. your post leans toward the Holy Spirit was not in the o.t. this is a deep subject but since God and Jesus are the same, the Holy Spirit did visit men. God can do anything He wants to do because He is God.
---shira4368 on 2/28/13


I have read many great posts on here, many sound doctrine. Of course we will have disagreements.
But when 1 or 2 on here says God didt give freewill, going against what God himself says...well my suggestion is to ignore that post, because its false and many have given them the word of God saying freewill is given to man. That we know is truth.
Shake the dust of your feet and pray for them.
God is not the author of sin.
These that teach against freewill would have us believe Jesus didt come to eliminate the sin condition when Jesus says he came to do that. To reconcile man back to God his creator.
Just ignore them, continue good Godly conversation.
Man sins because he wants to even after being given Jesus.
---g on 2/28/13


trey, God tempted Adam and Eve? That was the work of the serpent, wasn't it? Now I ask you this question: who created the serpent? Better still, who created the devil? Don't you have to say it was God who created them? If He didn't then we're most definitely in big trouble.

So, why then did God Almighty create these beings to do evil? Well, He explicitly declared to us, "The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

Or how else will God get to express His wrath and hate for evil and sin? Didn't He say to Pharaoh, "Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth."
---christan on 2/27/13


The scriptures tell us who the author of sin is:
Rom5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

God is not the author of sin:
Jas1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Let us not blame God or Satan. It is man that brought sin into the world!!!

1Jo2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
---trey on 2/27/13


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JamesL, your understanding of Hebrews 13:8 is erroneous with regards to your examples of the sun and donkey. Question is with "faith", does He need perform those things again before His people to prove that He's God? Your application of verses is really out of whack.

Hebrews 13:8 is simply implying is that Jesus is God and God is unchangeable, that's why he's "the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." Notice "for ever"?

In other words with regards to the salvation of the sinner, the redemption process is the same yesterday, today and the days to come, "faith in Jesus Christ" or in the OT, it was "faith in God". Isn't the Bible all about salvation?
---christan on 2/27/13


Shira, when did I say water baptism was being Born Again. You like building straw men too to tear apart. Seems to be a pastime for those who can't comprehend what others are saying.

To be Born Again, is to be born of the life of the Risen Christ in you, that is first identifying with him in death. I am crucified with Christ, being baptized into His Death has nothing whatsoever to do with water baptism.

Spiritual Baptism needs no water.

Jesus said I will baptize you with FIRE.

John baptized with water.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/13


One thing I do know Shira, God never created anyone after Adam and Eve, as you believe. You go on and on about the KJV ONLY, however, the way I see it, what difference does that make to you, since it doesn't really matter WHAT version you DIDN'T find that in anyway.

You want so desperately to pick a fight with me, and seems you go to great lengths to make up garbage I never said, only arguing with your own imagination.

Just another wing nut who stands in the way of the CROSS.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/13


kathr, john 3:4 Jesus Christ was ask by nickodemus "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mothers womb and be born? Jesus answered verily, verily I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. many take this out of context to believe baptism saves. a water birth is a natural birth and a spiritual birth is born of the spirit. this scripture has nothing to do with baptism. kathr, unless you are born again, you will not enter heaven. how can you believe the old testiment and not the words of Jesus Christ? I don't even understand that. God help you open your eyes.
---shira4368 on 2/27/13


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\\we are explicitly told, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday...\\
---Christan

What does God BEING the same have to with how He "operates" ??

"yesterday" (long time ago) He made the sun stand still. Did He do that today?

"yesterday" He made a donkey talk. Did that happen today ??

You say tongues are not needed today. So does that lead you to think Jesus is not the same as He was then ??


There are implications to every ignorant thing you say
---James_L on 2/27/13


So are you saying christian those you say were Born Again in the OT God "concelaed" that truth from them? That they actually were Baptized into Christ death and resurrection but it was concelaed from them. Did Jesus already die on a Cross on the OT but that too was concelaed? Was Jesus born of a virgin in the OT and that TOO was concelaed?

"TYPES and shaddows", the patterns made after the things in Heaven were not those actual things Christan. God's PICTURE of things that pointed to Jesus, so that when He came....we would know it was Him that the OT prophecied about.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/13


christan, would you please STOP changing the definition of Born Again you made up to conform your false doctrine to. We arre to conform to the Word of God, not the Word of God conforming to our false understandings.

There was NO Life of Christ that SET ANYONE FREE from the Law of Sin and death, or the Law of Moses in the OT. You cannot live by GRACE that is the Cross and the LAW now or then. Yet you claim they did then, but now are forbidden to?

If it worked then, it can work NOW...However Galatians 2:20-21 expose your nonsense!
---kathr4453 on 2/27/13


Ever heard of: the OT concealed the NT and the NT revealed the concealment of the OT?

Obviously some here thinks God operates differently in the OT as in the NT and yet we are explicitly told, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." Even in the OT from Malachi 3:6, He declared: "For I am the Lord, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."

To even think that the prophets and the saints in the OT were not "born of the Spirit" and operated outside of regeneration even after the revelation by Christ in John 3 about regeneration is harboring close to blasphemy to the Word of God with regards to salvation of a sinner.
---christan on 2/27/13


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Manuel, God formed this plan the way He wanted. He could have made us robots doing holy things forever. He could have forgiven Adam so there would be no curse on mankind. Scripture tells us that Christ was
"foreknown indeed as a sacrifice for sin before the foundation of the world" (1 Peter 1:20). Paul speaks of
"the eternal purpose in Jesus Christ our Lord" (Eph. 3:11). The writer of Hebrews refers to "the blood of an eternal covenant" (Heb. 13:20). And since the plan of redemption is thus traced back into eternity, the plan to permit man to fall into the sin from which he was thus to be redeemed must also extend back into eternity, otherwise there would be no occasion for redemption.
---Mark_V. on 2/27/13


Matthew 10:14 "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet."
John 17:20 "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word,..."

kathr4453 on 2/26/13 you made a sound blog entry. The two verses above validate what you stated.Jesus used the word 'learn' quite often as in, "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me"
No pixie-dust, notting hidden- just plain learning. Learning and the mind are inseparable and in the NT the Love towards God is required with "all thy mind" also.
---Nana on 2/27/13


"Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to me." You forget, God is Spirit, so how can you hear God if you're not first "born of the Spirit"? ---christan on 2/26/13

So christan, you are saying in the OT the Prophets were not speaking in the Power of the Holy Spirit? Yet no one was Born of the Spirit first in the OT to have to hear Moses who God spoke to and through.

Didn't God also speak through messengers like angels?

YOU have the cart before the horse.

The Prophets and LAW spoke of Christ.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/13


Ruben, you've got your cart before the horse. John 6:45 cannot happen if 44 does not come first. That's why your understanding is erroneous - and that's because of your "free-will".

"Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to me." You forget, God is Spirit, so how can you hear God if you're not first "born of the Spirit"? That's why I say your cart is before the horse and that's so typical of a free-willer thinking and understanding - basically it's man-centred and God has no part in the man's decision.

Redemption of the sinner has an order as taught by Paul in Romans 8. Whereas free-will theology is complete disorder.
---christan on 2/26/13


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Manuel, You asked a good question, which the answer supports GOD's creation of free-will to both angels and to mankind. Everything that GOD made, from the moment that each thing and being were created, HE said it was GOOD. Satan WAS a good and holy angel. But, Lucifer (Heli'el), now Satan, CHOSE to rebel against GOD and HE became evil when GOD kicked him out of Heaven and Eternally separated Lucifer from HIMSELF. For, only GOD is the Source of all that is Good in Life. And, if one is separated from HIM, from that Source of Good, one then is left to die by the process of spiritual, emotional and physical decay. Which is what Death really is.
---Gordon on 2/26/13


"Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me." (Jhn 6:45)

also remember Jesus said, the Father and I are one. Those who were Jews in the OT heard and learned from God throught the prophets and the Law.

So tell us Christan, when did you first HEAR and learn of God BEFORE coming to God through Jesus Christ. Faith comes by HEARING.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/13


christan * That's why the doctrine of "free-will" is from the pits of hell and that's because you are telling God that you can go to His Son by your own accord without Him having to draw you first.

Yes, the Father draws you first (Jhn 6:44) however Jesus says that each person has a choice to "listen " to the "teaching of God" and they that "listen" and "learn" comes to Jesus (Jhn 6:45).

St Paul in Romans 10:9-13 tells the people how to be saved:

" If you declare with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved..Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
---Ruben on 2/26/13


Well, because it pleased God not to make robots.

Even Angels have free will. and we see they did use that free will to obey or disobey.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/13


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christan * You know why Jesus declared yet you refuse to come to me"? Here's the reason why: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

And who are those that the Father draws to Jesus :

"Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me." (Jhn 6:45)

They who 'listen' and 'learned' goes to Jesus, those who did not 'refuse to come to Jesus '(Jhn 5:40)
---Ruben on 2/26/13


Ruben, you quote John 5:40 "yet you refuse to come to me" in your feeble effort to justify that the man has a choice or "free-will".

You know why Jesus declared yet you refuse to come to me"? Here's the reason why: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

That's why the doctrine of "free-will" is from the pits of hell and that's because you are telling God that you can go to His Son by your own accord without Him having to draw you first. You may think you have gone to Christ by your own "free-will" but make no mistake, you have gone to the false christ.
---christan on 2/25/13


christan * "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Genesis 2:17 - does this command by God sound like it came with "a choice"? If there was a "choice" involved, Adam must have been real stupid to "choose" to die.

"Why even mention "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it:" (Gen 3:17)



christan * "GOD WANTS US TO CHOOSE."

Choose what?

Him:

"yet you refuse to come to me" (JHN 5:40)
---Ruben on 2/25/13


bike4335, in the case of Adam and Eve, you will find it hard to provide us in Genesis that God asked Adam to choose. It was a straightforward command of "thou shalt not eat of it" or else!

With the benefit of the epistles, we are enlightened by Peter, "But with the precious blood of Christ... Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world", that God in His infinite wisdom was only going to glorify His Son which meant Adam had to fall.

And Paul confirmed by telling us, "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all." Do you know what this means?
---christan on 2/25/13


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Bike, when you want to study about God, not man, you have to leave your theological bias behind. What you do is read the passages, and find some kind of excuse to continue to believe a bias belief you learned from someone else, you don't want to be wrong so you believe it, then you fight for it.
That way you will never learn the Truth of God. You will always be looking for excuses for fallen man. Open your eyes, that is the only way you can learn. Who introduced the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil in the garden? God. If He had not put the evil tree there, there would have been no evil.
---Mark_V. on 2/25/13


Yes, christian, we are stupid.

GOD WANTS US TO CHOOSE.

You ask, "Choose what?"

CHOOSE LIFE.

Deuteronomy 30:19
This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.

That is what God wanted Adam and Eve to choose in the Garden and what God wants the people of Israel to choose and what he wants us to choose as well.
---bike4335 on 2/25/13


Bro. Christan, I have read that passage over and over so many times and it was never revealed to me the way you explained it. That was awesome. In the mind of Adam he thought he had a choice and chose to eat of the tree, in the words of God he was going to eat of the tree, it was predetermined already he would. God never gave him a choice because it was a sure thing from God's point of view. Thank you brother for the explanation. I learned something today that is so important. Another revelation from the Spirit you brought forward. peace I leave you.
---Mark_V. on 2/25/13


"Do you think God brought this spirit of evil into existence? Could any created being create into existence the spirit of evil . . . if the being was created "good"?" willie_c

You're in UNBELIEF of what God has declared. Maybe you should go challenge God with regards to where evil came from if it wasn't from Him. Before you do, you might want to digest the following before He deals with you for not believing in what He had already declared and accusing Him to be a liar.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7, "Shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?" Amos 3:6
---christan on 2/24/13


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Paul shares that there is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience," in Ephesians 2:2. Do you think God brought this spirit of evil into existence? Could any created being create into existence the spirit of evil . . . if the being was created "good"?

I consider that no good being brought the spirit of disobedience into existence. So, God needs vessels, "for dishonor" (Romans 9:21), for holding it, keeping it organized on its way to the flaming sewer which burns with fire and brimstone.

Evil is on its way to where it belongs! "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:21) It is not wise to let evil decide how you are and if you trust in God.
---willie_c: on 2/22/13


"Adam was FREE to eat of every plant. Only ONE they were not to touch. But God gave them CHOICE to obey or disobey." Born

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." Genesis 2:17 - does this command by God sound like it came with "a choice"? If there was a "choice" involved, Adam must have been real stupid to "choose" to die.

"GOD WANTS US TO CHOOSE."

Choose what?

Christ declared: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." What are you choosing?
---christan on 2/22/13


Satan is the author of sin and is the father of lies. God did not make robots. It is not for us to ask God "WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS?" He chose to create us with free choice. Adam was FREE to eat of every plant. Only ONE they were not to touch. But God gave them CHOICE to obey or disobey. Same with Israel. Deuteronomy 30:19

GOD WANTS US TO CHOOSE.

Romans 9:20 (NET)
But who indeed are youa mere human beingto talk back to God? Does what is molded say to the molder, Why have you made me like this?

Isaiah 29:16
You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, He did not make me? Can the pot say of the potter, He knows nothing?
---Born on 2/22/13


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