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Did Paul Preach To Gentiles

Is not the Apostle Paul the apostle to the Gentiles according to Romans ll:13 and he is preaching "My gospel" according to Romans 16:25 and Ephesians 3:1-2 and God revealed the "Mystery" to him?

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 ---Dana_Lee_Phipps on 2/21/13
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Jed, for your information, an arc-angel is a created angelical being. Created by God. Jesus Christ is God, how can He created Himself? You are speaking nonesense. Clearly heretical remarks. If you don't know about God, then don't speak and try to teach about the Lord. He is not a created being. He is eternal. Get it right.
---Mark_V. on 3/8/13


let us consider these two texts:

Genesis 31:11 And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob:...I am the God of Bethel

AND

Genesis 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham:.. Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me

In Both passages the speaker is THE ANGEL OF GOD/ THE LORD

in Both passages the Angel of the Lord/ God identifies himelf as God

This Angel of The Lord/ God,
who is also God can be none other than Jesus
---francis on 3/7/13


2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.


So francis, do you too believe Jesus and satan were brothers?
---kathr4453 on 3/7/13


kathr4453 on 3/7/13
Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me:


and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Second part of the verse
John is NOT the Lord whom ye seek

John is NOT the messnegr of the covenant

John is NOT the one whom israel delights in

Malachi 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he [is] like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
---francis on 3/7/13


francis Malachi 3:1 was about John the Baptist, and fortold of John the baptist, ...so what does that have to do with anything. Is John an angel too?

Matthew 11:7 As John's disciples were leaving, Jesus began to speak to the crowd about John: "What did you go out into the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind?


Matthew 11:10 This is the one about whom it is written: "'I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'
---kathr4453 on 3/7/13




Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him

Genesis 31:11-13 And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying Jacob:.. I am the God of Bethel,

How can anyone deny that Jesus is God,and also the angel or messenger of the Father ( God)?

None of the other angels are God. So between Jesus and all the other angels who is ARCH / CHIEF/ FIRST?
None of the other angels are the Image of God, only Jesus is michael ( Like God)
---francis on 3/7/13


---kathr4453 on 3/6/13
O.K. i see the confusion.
You see angels as being created beings, and not as messengers of God.
francis//

I see angels as created beings who were messengers of God. No confusion here. A messenger is NOT "The WORD of God." Big difference.

scripture never says, and "the messenger" was made flesh.
---kathr4453 on 3/7/13


\\All they said is that "Michael" and "Jesus" refer to the same person, in the same way that "Lucifer" and "Satan" refer to the same person. That's totally different than saying Jesus is not God.
---Jed on 3/6/13\\

Saying that Michael and Jesus refer to the same person, as the SDA does, does not make it so.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/6/13


---kathr4453 on 3/6/13
O.K. i see the confusion.
You see angels as being created beings, and not as messengers of God.
Malachi 3:1 the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Who is this messenger


---StrongAxe on 3/6/
OK use " who withboth meaning is two sentences, lets see whatthe sanswer will be?

Who is like god?
Who is like God.

Whether it is a question, or a statement the answer is the same:

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God?

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God.

What is your answer?
---francis on 3/7/13


Francis, the Firstborn of every creature is referring to the New birth and New Creation. The firstborn from the dead. Revelation. Colossians is not talking in that verse about the origin of creation, but the NEW CREATION.

Michael is not head of the CHURCH either. He is not your HEAD. You are forbidden to worship angels.
---kathr4453 on 3/6/13




francis:

To understand the answer, you need some knowledge of the Hebrew.

In English, the word "who" has two different meanings, and you have to determine which is which based on the context (and sometimes it can be ambiguous).

In Hebrew, there are two totally different wordS "mi", an interrogative pronoun "who?", and "asher", a subordinate conjunction ", who..." which have totally different meanings. It's only because you're reading a bible in English that any confusion can arise here. To be fair, many other western languages also use the same word for both meanings, so the same ambiguity could arise in those languages as well - but NOT in the original Hebrew.
---StrongAxe on 3/6/13


StrongAxe, you don't have to preach to me. I already stated that I am NOT one of those that subscribe to the thought of Jesus and Michael being the same. And I am not a Seventh Day Adventist, so you don't have to convince me. I only stated that due to the similar roles of Michael and Jesus as the Captain of the Hosts, I can see why one may subscribe to the thought.

I only came to their defense because Cluny had accused them of actually denying that Jesus is God, which they have not done. All they said is that "Michael" and "Jesus" refer to the same person, in the same way that "Lucifer" and "Satan" refer to the same person. That's totally different than saying Jesus is not God.
---Jed on 3/6/13


Michael" means the rhetorical question "who is like [the] God?".
---StrongAxe on 3/6/13
Really who invented the question mark and when?

But in any event WHO is like God?
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature?

take you pick but give an answer or answers
---francis on 3/6/13


francis:

"Michael" means the rhetorical question "who is like [the] God?". The Hebrew "mi" is the interrogative pronoun "who?", so this name CANNOT mean "[one] who is like God". For that, it would require the word "asher", which means "who" in that context.


francis and Jed:

Mark 16, Luke 22, Acts 2 and 1 Peter 3 all say Jesus is at the right hand of God. Meanwhile, as kathr4453 pointed out, Hebrews 1 CLEARLY says no angel was ever invited there. Therefore, Jesus CANNOT be an angel.

This is more telling than mere inferences that Jesus and Michael were described similarly - there are NO explicit connection between them anywhere.
---StrongAxe on 3/6/13


---Jed on 3/5/13
I agree with you
It is like saying Jesus was not God because Jesus was a prophet

Sure Jesus was a prophet, But he is also God

Where did Jesus get his prophecies from:

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,

It came from the father, to Jesus to seraphims and cherubins and to man
---francis on 3/6/13


Jed, your reasoning sounds like some bleeding heart liberal. You say IF Jesus Christ can be both God and Man, Jesus Christ can also be both God man and an angel? Wasn't Lucifer also an arch angel of the highest order. So are these just imaginary characters we gave names to, or are they REAL.

If they are all real, we know for a FACT Jesus Christ is no more Michael, than He could have been Satan. Unless again you are Mormon.

What is your explanation of the HOLY SPIRIT overshadowing Mary, and Mary CONCEIVED. It was GOD's SEED...and that seed is NOT Michael. THAT SEED IS CHRIST.

Hebrews says NO ANGEL is seated next to God. PERIOD. That's a MATURE understanding. One that takes God AT HIS WORD. A child won't deal with TRUTH.
---kathr4453 on 3/6/13


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Jed: I want to thank you for your wisdom and your aid in exposing religious bigotry on this web site. There are those who seem to believe that they can achieve salvation by bashing other religions and their members. I realize that we may hold differing opinions on various doctrines, but that is no reason to get personal in our attacks. We can instead hold reasoned discussions on biblical topics without such childish behavior. After all, we hope to spend eternity together with our Lord, and He will sort out all the differences then.



---jerry6593 on 3/6/13


Francis, yes. I'm not saying I necessarily agree that Michael and Jesus are one in the same person. But based on the fact that they seem to share roles in the Bible, I don't find the idea too far fetched. I can certainly see the basis for it.

Back to topic, I don't like it when people put words in other people's mouth. That's the same as lying. And accusing someone of denying the eternal Godship of Jesus simply because they believe the Bible is referring to Jesus when it says "Michael" is wrong. If Jesus can be both God and man at the same time, then it makes sense that he can be both God and Captain of the Host (arch angel) at the same time.
---Jed on 3/5/13


Francis is basically saying that "Michael" and "Jesus" refer to the same person. Just like Jehovah, Yaweh, and Adonai refer to the same person.
---Jed on 3/5/13
THANK YOU MY REPUBLICAN FRIEND

I have also shown that Jesus and Michael have the exact same job:

1:In charge on the angels,
2:commander of God's army,

I have also shown that many prophecies spoken about Jesus and about Michael are fullfiled by either or:

1: Voice raises the dead
2: Standing for God's people in the last days

I have shown that Jesus is:
1: the Image of God ( the father)
2: Michael means: who is like God
---francis on 3/5/13


If Jesus is an archangel he is not eternal but a created being. ---Mark_V. on 3/5/13
Genesis 31:11 the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob:..I am the God of Bethel

Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in:

When we were 5 years old, we were taught that angels are created being, which live in heaven and have wings.
When we put away childish things and read the bible, angels are messengers of God. Jesus is the Chief Messenger of God, Jesus is also the Image of God
That is what Michael The Arch Angel means
---francis on 3/5/13


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---kathr4453 on 3/5/13
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: ....

Who is this Child, Son, prince, mighty God and so on?
JESUS

Malachi 3:1 and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in:

Who is this messenger of the covenant?
JESUS

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel ...received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Who is this Angel that spoke to Moses in the mount, and gave him the oracles?
JESUS

Deuteronomy 9:10 And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God,
---francis on 3/5/13


francis is denying the Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God. If Jesus is an archangel he is not eternal but a created being.
---Mark_V. on 3/5/13


That is like saying YOU are denying Jesus is the eternal Son of God because you believe he was also a man, which is not eternal but a created being. I'm not saying that I believe Jesus and Michael are the same. Just like the President of the U.S. is also the Cammander in Chief of the Military. He role as the Commander in Chief in no way takes away from his status as President. Francis is basically saying that "Michael" and "Jesus" refer to the same person. Just like Jehovah, Yaweh, and Adonai refer to the same person.
---Jed on 3/5/13


Jed, yes, francis is denying the Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God. If Jesus is an archangel he is not eternal but a created being. No matter how he twist the passages he is still wrong. Anyone who denies that Jesus Christ is not eternal that person cannot be saved. He would be depending for an archangel to save him. Only God saves by His grace through faith. Jesus Christ is both man and God. For a Mediator cannot be man only, or God only. A Mediator has to be of both parties in order to be Mediator. God took for Himself a human body.
---Mark_V. on 3/5/13


Cluny, I think your misrepresenting what the SDA have said. I'm not saying I believe what they do. But I was always taught growing up that whenever the Bible says "The Angel of the Lord" it was actually talking about Jesus himself, and not an angel. I was also taught that Jesus is the Captain of the Host of the Armies of The Lord. I can see why the SDA would draw parallels between Jesus and Michael. That's different from saying Jesus isn't God. My understanding is that they believe Jesus' name before his incarnation was Michael. That Jesus & Michael are one in the same person. Not that Jesus isn't the same God we know him as, but that one of his roles is the Warrior Captain that is also referred to as Michael.
---Jed on 3/5/13


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\\Cluny, no response to francis concerning your cliams about the Seventh Day Adventists?\\

As I've said before Jed, I ignore posts from people who are members of churches that allow pre-natal infanticide. There is NOTHING in the SDA position on this matter that differs in essence from the pro-choice position.

But to answer YOUR question, I've seen in SDA literature where they teach that before His Incarnation, the Logos was NOT the Son of God, but the Archangel Michael, who is a CREATED being.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/4/13


Francis, you really don't believe "The Lord our God is ONE....then.

Hebrews 1, read the whole chapter please, you re actually saying God DID ask an angel to sit at His right hand?

Do you feel God concealing this is some sort of Mystery? After all, I wonder why God didn't say to Mary..."his name is Michael".

So then taking Isaiah into account, the son born, child given IS /wasMichael, all along, ALMIGHTY GOD????? ....Now in heaven as fully man fully angel? And where it says in Colossians we are not to worship Angels....well??????

How exactly did the Holy Spirit overshadow Mary and drop Michael in her womb? Is the Holy Spirit an angel too? Mary CONCEIVED of the Holy Spirit. ANGELS cannot procreate.
---kathr4453 on 3/5/13


Cluny: You have made false statements against your Christian brothers. It is time for you to repent and apologize. Otherwise, you will be forever labled as a liar and an accuser of the brethren on this web site.



---jerry6593 on 3/5/13


The Bible testifies: For He did not subject to angels the world to come, concerning which we are speaking. Hebrews 2:5
---kathr4453 on 3/5/13


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wow, you take the deity away from Christ. you are not only deceived by your commandments but now you are deceived concerning Christ. you are close to blaspheming the Holy Spirit. you deny God when you deny Jesus Christ.
---shira4368 on 3/5/13


: Jesus is THE ANGEL OF THE LORD /GOD Genesis 22:11-12
2: Jesus is the Image of the Father Colossians 1:15 ( MICHAEL = who is like God)
3: Jesus is the creator John 1:1-4( Not being himself created)
4: Jesus' voice will raise the dead John 5:28
5: The Archangel's voice will raise the dead: 1 Thess 4:16
6: Jesus leads all the armies of God Joshua 5:14
7: Michael leads all the Lord's Army: Rev 12:7
8: Jesus is the Chief messenger of God: Hebrews 1:2


Michael: Colossians 1:15
Arch: John 1:1-4
Angel: Hebrews 1:2

So Jesus is the Image of God, who is in charge of all the angels, and is the greatest messenger sent from the father
---francis on 3/4/13


kathr4453
Genesis 31:11 the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob:..I am the God of Bethel,

It is 100% clear that this Angel of God is also God

Malachi 3:1: Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

This messenger sent by the Lord to His temple is Jesus.

Now answer me TWO questions:

1: If Jesus is the messenger of God, and also Jesus is God, is there any possibility that a seraphim or cherubim who was created by Jesus can be chief of Jesus?

2: Is Jesus the image of the father (GOD)?
---francis on 3/4/13


francis, maybe I misunderstood you on another post. Didn't you tell me you believe Jesus is Michael the Arch Angel??
---kathr4453 on 3/4/13


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Cluny, no response to francis concerning your cliams about the Seventh Day Adventists? If that is actually what the SDA believe then I see nothing in that creed that disqualifies them from being saved. The creed he posted describes the trinity as the New Testament describes it. And It does not deny that Jesus is God. You claimed that the SDA deny that Jesus is God. So is francis lying about what the SDA believe? Or should we rely upon YOU for an accurate description of what someone else believes?
---Jed on 3/4/13


\\Wrong. Most Catholics believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but not God himself. Whenever I say that Jesus is God, if there is a Catholic around, they quickly "correct" me and say that He is the SON of God, not God.
---Jed on 3/3/13\\

I'm sure you have questioned a representative sample, Jed.

In the Nicene Creed, recited every Sunday and many other days in the Roman Catholic mass occur these words about the Son: "God of God, Light of Light, True God of True God, begotten, not made, Consubstantial with the Father, by Whom all things were made."

This is the official teaching not only of the Roman Catholic Church, but of all the Pre-Reformation Churches.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/3/13


Dana, you will see in Galatians Paul says (another gospel) was brought in he said is ACCURSED. Bad thing, those accursed gospels. This accursed gospel is STILL to this day being preached. It's called KINGDOM NOW..or reconstruction , and are THEN AND NOW a threat to the Gospel of GRACE, that is, that MYSTERY PAUL again tells us what it is ,in Colossians 1: 24-27. THE MYSTERY IS "CHRIST IN YOU THE HOPE OF GLORY."

Now our HOPE is GLORY, not earthly. KINGDOM NOW is earthly.

Paul again says those who mind earthly things are enemies of the CROSS. Please refer to Philippians 3.... He states right in the beginning, "the concision" ,..same folks who disrupted those in Galatia, ARE DOGS and not the TRUE CIRCUMCISION.
---kathr4453 on 3/4/13


The SDA specifically teach that Jesus is NOT GOD INCARNATE.
---Cluny on 3/3/13
Seventh-day Adventists Believe.

God the Eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. Fundamental Beliefs, number 4

Ok Ckuny will you now stop with that lie?
---francis on 3/3/13


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Whatever doctrinal problems Roman Catholicism has, it has NEVER denied that Jesus is God Incarnate, Who was crucified, died, and rose from the dead in His glorified human body, unlike JW, LDS, and SDA.
---Cluny on 3/3/13

Wrong. Most Catholics believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but not God himself. Whenever I say that Jesus is God, if there is a Catholic around, they quickly "correct" me and say that He is the SON of God, not God.
---Jed on 3/3/13


\\Cluny- JW, LDS, and SDA all consider themselves to be Christian denominations. \\

Do you think they are, Jed?

\\BTW: I thought I remember you defending Catholicism in the past?
---Jed on 3/3/13\\

Remember that making false statements about something that is false does NOT result in truth.

I have corrected false statements made about Roman Catholicism. Do you think that's defending it?

Whatever doctrinal problems Roman Catholicism has, it has NEVER denied that Jesus is God Incarnate, Who was crucified, died, and rose from the dead in His glorified human body, unlike JW, LDS, and SDA.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/3/13


Cluny- JW, LDS, and SDA all consider themselves to be Christian denominations. So when you say that members of those denominations can't be Christians, you are doing just as I said of you. You are calling people unsaved because of their church denomination. Yet you continue to deny that you have ever done this and accuse me of slander for simply stating the fact that you HAVE called others non-christian because of their church denomination. I am not here to argue whether these people really are saved or not. I'm just saying you HAVE said this (now twice just on this thread), and to deny that you have said this is a flat out lie on your part.

BTW: I thought I remember you defending Catholicism in the past?
---Jed on 3/3/13


\\. You accused me of "slander" when I stated how you have called other people unsaved because of their church denomination.\\

Wrong again, as in everything you say about me.

The LDS, JW, and SDA specifically teach that Jesus is NOT GOD INCARNATE. I have seen it IN THEIR LITERATURE.

THIS is why they are not Christians. They do NOT believe this basic Christian doctrine. The same thing applies to ANYONE who does not believe that Jesus is God Incarnate Who truly suffered death in the flesh, and rose again in a glorified HUMAN body, to which He is eternally united.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/3/13


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Axey: I'm confused. Are you saying that Cluny and his cat have the same name? If not, then one of them is lying. Whichever one writes these blogs is obviously the liar, since he (or she) wrote:

"You don't actually think they ARE Christians, do you Jed? They are not Christians because they do not believe in the REAL Jesus Christ, Who is God Incarnate."

This is a bald-faced LIE!

And you people claim to love your neighbors. Ha!


---jerry6593 on 3/3/13


jerry6593:

Cluny is a human being, who happens to have a cat named "Cluny", and thus uses that cat's name for posting on these blogs.
I don't recall him challenging other people's salvation, Christianity, etc. - UNLESS they first do the same to others, so he just turns it around in a "what's good for the goose is what's good for the gander" sort of way.

I typicaly react similarly. I don't accuse people of things (like being unsaved, having bad spelling, grammar, etc.) - UNLESS they specifically make those things issues, say, by hurling such accusations at others (so I just point out that they should remove the beam from their eyes before criticizing specks in others')
---StrongAxe on 3/2/13


Cluny, you just proved my claim against you. You accused me of "slander" when I stated how you have called other people unsaved because of their church denomination. You said "I have never said that. And you cannot provide a quote where I did." Then in your very next comment you said just that! LOL. If I didn't have proof before I sure do now! And you know you have said that several times before and I can prove it.

Let me help you. Slander is when someone is telling a lie about you. Don't accuse me of slander when you know that what I've said about you is true. That's not slander, that's called admonishment. And God doesn't bless you when someone confronts you with truth about yourself and you deny it.
---Jed on 3/2/13


Jed: "Salvation is about your personal belief and faith in Christ's death and resurrection, not about church history."

Beautiful! I would also add Christ's divinity and having come in the flesh, as well as following His example in our lives. This is indeed the definition of being a Christian.

Our feline friend Cluny ((Yes, he (or is it she) once claimed to be a cat)), on the other hand, is so egocentric that he thinks only cult followers of HIS faux orthodox church fathers are REAL Christians. Pity there's no love for his fellow man in him.



---jerry6593 on 3/2/13


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\\. I am used to the Cluny that is constantly bashing the Jehovah's Witness, Latter Day Saints, Seventh Day Adventists and others, even to the point of calling them unsaved or non-Christians. \\

You don't actually think they ARE Christians, do you Jed? They are not Christians because they do not believe in the REAL Jesus Christ, Who is God Incarnate.

And many people on these blogs have said to me, "I know you are not saved, Cluny," or words to that effect.

I rejoice in these slanders.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/2/13


I'm sorry Cluny, there must be two Clunys on CN. I am used to the Cluny that is constantly bashing the Jehovah's Witness, Latter Day Saints, Seventh Day Adventists and others, even to the point of calling them unsaved or non-Christians. The oh-so-familiar "you don't actually think that you're a christian do you?" question is a favorite from the Cluny I'm used to seeing on here. Interestingly, the other Cluny also uses the same tagline "Glory to Jesus Christ" despite the fact that very few of her comments actually do just that. Most of her comments are an embarrassment Christianity. And the other Cluny even claims persecution when she is merely corrected or disproved, just as you do! The similarities are stunning!
---Jed on 3/1/13


\\they are not saved because of their church denomination\\

I have never said that. And you cannot provide a quote where I did.

But your slander merely blesses me, Jed. Keep on increasing my heavenly treasure.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/1/13


Cluny, I never suggested my church is not denominational. Do you even know what kind of church I attend? No, because I'm not the one constantly bringing denomination and church history into every argument and bashing other churches and telling people they are not saved because of their church denomination and different things in their church's history that disqualify them from being a Christian. That would be you doing all that. Every time someone questions the biblical validity of a tradition, you always want to bring up your church's extensive history as if whoever has been around longest is more valid, or the way it was done first is more valid. None of that makes anything right or wrong. Only God's Word can define right and wrong.
---Jed on 2/28/13


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\\I think the concern here is your constant use of "church history" on these blogs in order to justify non-biblical traditions. \\

Having the Bible between two covers in the form we have it today is a non-Biblical tradition. Original books of scripture were in SCROLLS, not the pagan codex form.

Even division into chapters and verses, as has already been pointed out, is a non-Biblical tradition and precept of men. You don't actually think they were part of the original mss, do you?

\\You try to overshadow the true gospel with your denominational church history, which matters for absolutely nothing.\\

And you think that YOUR church is not denominational?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/28/13


Tell me one bit of church history relating to which apostle went where that TAKES AWAY from our salvation in Christ.
---Cluny on 2/27/13


No amount of church history relating to anything can take away, our salvation in Christ. And I don't see where anyone has made such a claim so asking them to prove it makes no sense. Salvation is about your personal belief and faith in Christ's death and resurrection, not about church history. I think the concern here is your constant use of "church history" on these blogs in order to justify non-biblical traditions. You try to overshadow the true gospel with your denominational church history, which matters for absolutely nothing.
---Jed on 2/28/13


//Tell me one bit of church history relating to which apostle went where that TAKES AWAY from our salvation in Christ.//
You say uninspired church history says Mark went to Egypt, and Thomas went to India.
To teach Gentiles?

Gal 2:9"..we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision"
There is more inspired history in God's Word than we will ever be able to study, so why waste time in uninspired history?
If it doesn't add too, why study it?
---michael_e on 2/28/13


\\There is a lot of "church history" that is "bunk".\\

"Bunk" means a statement that is false.

And I've noticed that a lot of people here have ideas about church history that are indeed bunk.

You might well be among them.

Tell me one bit of church history relating to which apostle went where that TAKES AWAY from our salvation in Christ.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/27/13


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James_L on 2/27/13
Sonny tradition also brought the non biblical word denomination ya know, example baptist methodists etc.
---michael_e on 2/27/13


willie_c, good answer!

Paul also said:
Ro1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Paul acknowleged that it is the gospel of Christ!!!

Lord bless Paul, two thousand years after his death and their are still persecutors.

2Tim3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
---trey on 2/27/13


\\St. Mark the Evangelist went to Egypt, and St. Thomas went to India.\\
---Cluny on 2/21/13


\\BCV please\\
---michael_e on 2/22/13


\\You don't actually think your so called historical facts adds anything to the Bible do you?\\
---michael_e on 2/22/13


michael e,
This might seem a little trivial to some, but what Cluny first quoted is referred to as TRADITION.

You know what else tradition brought us ??

CHAPTERS and VERSES

So by hollering "BCV please" you are actually agreeing that tradition has added something to scripture that you find very useful

Ya know ??
---James_L on 2/27/13


//Or do you think that "history is bunk"? If so, then so is the Bible, because the Bible contains history.//
There is a lot of "church history" that is "bunk".
Now show me some church history that adds one iota to the biblical plan of salvation laid out by our risen Christ
---michael_e on 2/27/13


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\\Apparently you didn't and can't answer my question.\\

You didn't answer my question first. Why should I answer yours?

\\You don't actually think your church history takes precedence over Biblical history do you?\\

You don't actually think that Church history NEGATES or is opposed to Bible history, do you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/26/13


Apparently you didn't and can't answer my question. You don't actually think your so called historical facts adds anything to the Bible do you?
God gave us His Word and a plan of salvation.

You don't actually think your church history takes precedence over Biblical history do you?
---michael_e on 2/25/13


\\You don't actually think your so called historical facts adds anything to the Bible do you?\\

I noticed that you answered my question with another question, which means you CANNOT and DID NOT answer my question.

Since when do historical fact about what happened after the Biblical record ends conflict with the Bible?

Or do you think that "history is bunk"? If so, then so is the Bible, because the Bible contains history.

**Does history actually help ones understanding of salvation?**

It shows how God continues to work, even after the close of the NT.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/25/13


Dana . . . yes, Paul said "my gospel". There are times when someone says God is "my God", but they surely do not mean God is only their own God! Likewise, I offer that Paul did not mean the gospel is his for only himself > 1 Corinthians 15 shows that Paul preached the death of Jesus "for our sins", His burial, and His resurrection of Jesus. So, Paul's Gospel is my gospel, too . . . how about you? (c:
---willie_c: on 2/24/13


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Thanks, Francis and Willie C
---Peter on 2/23/13


Hi, Peter (c: > To Paul, Jesus said > "'I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.'" (Acts 26:17-18)

"But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles)," (Galatians 2:7-8)
---willie_c: on 2/22/13


--Peter on 2/22/13
No problems my apostolically names brother

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter,

Galatians 2:8 For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:

Peter although the Apostle in Rome, was able to convinced more Jews to accept Jesus

Paul an itinerant preacher able to convince more Gentiles

Here we see that Pater did work with Gentiles
Galatians 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he (PETER) did eat with the Gentiles:.. teaching the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
---francis on 2/23/13


// it adds to one's understanding of history. Is Constantine in the Bible? Did he really exist? //
Does history actually help ones understanding of salvation?
What did constantine add to your salvation?
2Pet.3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation,
---michael_e on 2/23/13


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//You don't actually think your so called historical facts adds anything to the Bible do you?//

It doesn't add to Scripture, it adds to one's understanding of history. Is Constantine in the Bible? Did he really exist? Or is that adding to Scripture?
---Rod4Him on 2/22/13


Francis: Unfortunately, I do not currently find the passage, but I vaguely remember it.

In one of his letters, Paul mentions something that he (Paul) has been send either mostly or just to the gentiles and Peter mostly or just to the Jews.

I do not of mean that they were only supposed to preach to one group, but I think somewhere Paul mentions that there was some kind of division.

But I cannot find it now
---Peter on 2/22/13


//This is an ancient historical fact attested by ancient Christian writers.
You don't actually think your so called historical facts adds anything to the Bible do you?
---michael_e on 2/22/13


Paul preached to BOTH jews and gentiles

Peter preached to BOTH jews and gentiles

The both had the exact same message to BOTH jews and
gentiles

God called BOTH Paul and Peter to preach to gentiles

Paul was called by God to be an apostle to the gentiles
---francis on 2/22/13


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\\Is not the Apostle Paul the apostle to the Gentiles...and God revealed the "Mystery" to him?\\
---Dana_Lee_Phipps on 2/21/13

That's correct. However, most misunderstand exactly what the mystery is.

The mystery is our inheritance.

It is not "salvation" in the sense of being justified, born again, redeemed, forgiven, or whatever words one might use of eternal destination.

It IS an Inheritance. Possession. Ownership. Reigning with Christ

Every believer will live in heaven, but not every belever will be an heir

Not the same thing at all.
---James_L on 2/22/13


**// St. Mark the Evangelist went to Egypt, and St. Thomas went to India. Glory to Jesus Christ//

BCV please
---michael_e on 2/22/13**

I never claimed the Bible said this. This is an ancient historical fact attested by ancient Christian writers.

You don't actually think that all of Church History ended with the NT, do you?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/22/13


About 30 years before Paul wrote any part of the NT Jesus sent out Evangelists and said"Go and make disciples of ALL Nations..."(Mat.28.19) so there was no "special Apostle to the Gentiles." All people were to hear the Gospel from ALL Christians!
---1st_cliff on 2/22/13


// St. Mark the Evangelist went to Egypt, and St. Thomas went to India. Glory to Jesus Christ//

BCV please
---michael_e on 2/22/13


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Paul was uniquely able to take the message of the gospel to the gentiles due to many factors. He was well educated in both speech, thought, and writing due to his upbringing as a Pharisee. This is how he could take and make his argument to the people of Athens. As a roman citizen he had certain rights the other apostle did not have. His multi-cultural experience allowed him to be able to be a jew to jews, a gentile to gentile, slave to slave, etc to spread the gospel out from the boundaries of Israel. It also helped that he went to europe and so did the Church thus leading to more of his letters being canonized and not the other apostles that Cluny mentioned.
---Scott1 on 2/22/13


Acts 9, Paul was called by our ascended Lord to be the apostle of the Gentiles. Paul states this plainly in Rom 11:13, "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office ...."
2 Tim 1:10-11, "... the gospel: Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles."

This ministry was different from the ministries of Jesus, John the Baptist, and the twelve. Those ministries were to Israel, under the Mosaic law. Notice the contrast in
Roms 15:8, "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision (Israel) ...."
Rom 15:16 he adds, "That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles ...."
---michael_e on 2/22/13


"God revealed the "Mystery" to him?"
rom 16:25-27,Eph 3:3-5

Now TO HIM THAT IS OF POWER to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, ACCORDING TO THE REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY,kept secret since the world began,But NOW IS MADE MANIFEST, and BY THE SCRIPTURES OF THE PROPHETS, ACCORDING TO THE COMMANDMENT OF THE EVERLASTING GOD, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith

>>that BY REVELATION HE MADE KNOWN UNTO ME THE MYSTERY, (as I wrote afore in few words,Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, AS IT IS NOW REVEALED UNTO HIS HOLY APOSTLES AND PROPHETS BY THE SPIRIT
---Chria9396 on 2/22/13


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