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Are We Spirits When Dead

Is the concept of conscious existence as a disembodied spirit Biblical?

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 ---jerry6593 on 2/22/13
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Acts 2 v 38, Matt. 24 v 13 are Saints.
Saints, & there are those that are Ain'ts.
The Ain'ts are those that are Not living for God whole heartedly, Not giving their all.
---Lawrence on 3/8/13


Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts, even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other, yea, they have all ONE BREATH, so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast:


---jerry6593 on 3/6/13


Shira, I agree with you that all of God's people when born again have the Spirit of God living in them:

Joh14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever,

Ro8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1Co3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Col1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
---trey on 3/6/13


---shira4368 on 3/5/13
How many of these were born again?

Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Acts 12:21 And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them.

Acts 12:22 And the people gave a shout, [saying, It is] the voice of a god, and not of a man.

Acts 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost
---francis on 3/5/13


Spirit, how do you equate having breath of life, with having the Spirit of God within you?
---Jed on 3/5/13




francis, everyone does NOT have the spirit of God living in them. only the saved....which are born again.
---shira4368 on 3/5/13


---shira4368 on 3/4/13
Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Acts 12:21 And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them.

Acts 12:22 And the people gave a shout, [saying, It is] the voice of a god, and not of a man.

Acts 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost

None of those who died in the flood were believers,
Herod was not a christian, yet they ALL had the breathof life, or the ghost (spirit of God) in them.

So your assumption that only believers have the spirit is faulty
---francis on 3/5/13


Jerry, how can God who is Spirit give His Spirit away? He would stop existing everywhere.
---Mark_V. on 3/5/13


Jerry, the Spirit of God does live in our hearts, He doesn't give His own Spirit away. He makes alive our spirit. It is a spiritual rebirth. Eph. 2:1-10) explains it as clear as light. In fact the moment that happens we are seated together with Christ in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Baptized into One Body in Christ. While our physical body is still on earth waiting for the resurrection of the body at the Second Coming.
Pretty simple for those born of the Spirit. Not simple for those who are lost.
---Mark_V. on 3/5/13


Well, it is God's spirit since we are bought with a price, but it is also our spirit and our soul that is within us until we die:

Gen35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

1Ki17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah, and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

Lu8:54 And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.
Lu8:55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.

As I said earlier it is difficult to divide the soul and the spirit.
---trey on 3/4/13




francis, you are ridiculus. when a person is born again, the Spirit of God lives in us. a sinner has the spirit of satan. we are all born under sin yet the sinner breathes. explain that one. you are either saved or lost. you can't ride the middle on this one. God gives breath to everyone but Christ is living in the saved. I think you just like to argue because you argue with everyone.
---shira4368 on 3/4/13


Markie: You can't be that dense!

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

If God gave the spirit of life to man and it returns to Him, then it is the Spirit of God (literally: the breath of God) that returns to God. Why do you love pagan spook stories so much? It's only mumbo jumbo.



---jerry6593 on 3/5/13


francis, if you don't have the holy spirit living in you, you are not saved.by your own admission, you say Jesus was an angel. what bible are you reading? do you not know God and Jesus are the same one? you are misleading many on christianet with your false religion. you will face God at judgement for deceiving many.
---shira4368 on 3/5/13


francis, when the body dies our breath goes away.
---shira4368 on 3/4/13
AGAIN NOT OUR BREATH
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.



francis, when I was saved, the Spirit of God came to live in me.
---shira4368 on 3/4/13
Everyone saved or unsaved has the spirit / breath of God in them


Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Your spirit is your breath, the air that you breath, God' spirit is the breath of life, that is what Goes back to God at death

Job 27:3 All the while my breath [is] in me, and the spirit of God [is] in my nostrils,
---francis on 3/4/13


Jerry, you gave a bunch of passages and not one said that the Spirit of God returned back to God. He gave you spiritual life, the reason you are born of the Spirit. And that spirit returns back to God. God is Omnipresence, His Spirit is everywhere. There is no place where He is not at. You are at the presence of God every second you breath.
How can His Spirit return back to Him when He is everywhere? Can you explain that?
---Mark_V. on 3/4/13


francis, when the body dies our breath goes away. our spirit goes to be with Jesus. 2nd Corinthians 5:8..We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. don't tell me you don't believe the bible is true.
---shira4368 on 3/4/13


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francis, when I was saved, the Spirit of God came to live in me. I am born of the Spirit...the Spirit of God dwells in me. I can say that over and over but you don't have a clue. I have learned all you know about is the 10 commandments. you know absolutely nothing concerning the things of God.
---shira4368 on 3/4/13


---shira4368 on 3/4/13
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

THE ONLY SPIRIT THAT GOD BACK TO GOD IS THE SPIRIT THAT GOD GAVE

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils,

YOUR BREATH DOES NOT GO BACK TO GOD. IT IS GOD'S BREATH THAT RETURNS TO HIM
---francis on 3/4/13


francis, you are wrong again. God was speaking of the flesh. He was not talking about the spirit. when I pass this life, I will be with Jesus Christ. my body will rot and return to dust but my spirit won't be here. you need to study your bible more and leave the commandments alone. nothing wrong with them but there is much more to this than what you preach. you need to rightly divide the Word of God.
---shira4368 on 3/4/13


And what is "spirit" but that which is really us?
---e.lee7537 on 2/27/13
Let us see what the bible says. Will you agree to abide by whatever the bible says?

Psalms 103:14 For he knoweth our frame, he remembereth that we are dust.

Psalms 104:29 thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Ecclesiastes 3:20 All go unto one place, all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

Genesis 3:19 till thou return unto the ground, for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

So the bible does not say that man is spirit, it says we are dust. I know that that is 100% clear, can you accept it as the bible truth?
---francis on 3/4/13


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francis, the passage in Jude 1:9 is speaking of the the body of Moses, not his spirit. His body, if you read it carefully unless your Bible does not say body. Spirits don't have a material body, they are invisible. Hello?
---Mark_V. on 3/4/13


MarkV: "then show me one passage where God tells us that at our physical death, the Spirit of God returns back to God and not the spirit of man. One passage."

Job 34:14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath,
Job 34:15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
---jerry6593 on 3/4/13


Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses,.."

Of course his physical body is in the grave,
---Mark_V. on 3/3/13
Jude is actually speaking of the resurrection of Moses by Jesus himself

Rev 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God,

Why song of Moses: because Moses was resurrected
Moses had gained the victory even after his death

Satan knew that he was in trouble, Moses had died before of his sin, and yet he was forgiven by the Lord, resurrected and saved.

Here for the first time the power of Christ was exercised to break the power of Satan and give life to the dead. Here began His work of making alive that which was dead.
---francis on 3/3/13


Jerry, if you are so right as you say here:

"Read carefully the scriptures which you think talk about the "spirit of man" returning to God at death, and you will see that it is rather the "spirit (breath) of God" instead."

then show me one passage where God tells us that at our physical death, the Spirit of God returns back to God and not the spirit of man. One passage.
---Mark_V. on 3/3/13


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francis, you now say,

"MOSES WAS RESURRECTED BEFORE JESUS BIRTH:
Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses,.."


Of course his physical body is in the grave, I do not dispute that. So will you be when you die a physical death. We are speaking of spiritual matters francis, you are in the flesh speaking of things of the flesh just like Jerry. you both speak of the law so much, you have no knowledge of the spiritual matters. Here let me help you:
"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor. 2:14).
---Mark_V. on 3/3/13


Terry Langley, what you are saying here is gnosticism, not Christianity.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/2/13


So, how do you explain away the first world age where all the Souls inhabited the Earth w/a physical Soul body? The time which the devil and his fallen Angels wrecked. And then we had to be born of water, born of woman=umbilical cord. To be absent of this earth body is to be present w/God. Paradise has a Gulf w/the unsaved on one side and the God lovers on the other.
---Terry_Langley on 3/2/13


Is the concept of conscious existence as a disembodied spirit Biblical?

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground, for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
---francis on 3/1/13


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---trey on 2/28/13
ELIJAH NEVER DIED:
2 Kings 2:11 behold, a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder, and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven

MOSES WAS RESURRECTED BEFORE JESUS BIRTH:
Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses,..

So It stands to reason that Moses, and ELijah, could appeared with Jesus since they were in heaven before Jesus was born

Luke 15:11 And he said, A certain man had two sons
Luke 16: There was a certain rich man, which had a steward
Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man which was clothed in purple

Rich man and laarous 1/3 parables told that same day
---francis on 2/28/13


MarkV: "Jerry, you and francis suggest the Bible is wrong, that we are not spiritually alive when our flesh dies."

No Markie, it is YOU that disagrees with the Bible, not us. The Bible does NOT teach immortality of the soul, as you suggest, but rather possible future immortality when Jesus returns to resurrect the dead and we "put on" immortality. Only God has immortality (1Ti 6:16).

Read carefully the scriptures which you think talk about the "spirit of man" returning to God at death, and you will see that it is rather the "spirit (breath) of God" instead.


---jerry6593 on 3/1/13


John 11:43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. This is someone that we call 'dead' but the Lord Jesus Christ who knows where those we call 'dead' are kept, called him back from there to our world John 11:11. (The Lord reminded me of this fact this morning).
---Adetunji on 3/1/13


we know God is God of the living but not God of the dead. God does not want to be God of a dead body but He is still God of our spirits(which is in Jesus Christ). when my body dies my spirit will be immediately taken away to heaven to be with the Lord.
---shira4368 on 3/1/13


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Scriptural references:

Christ spoke with Moses and Elias on the Mount of Transfiguation. - Matt 17, Lu 9:31. The three of them were awake enough to have a discussion concerning the death of Christ!

The rich man knew he was in a flame! - Lu 16:23

Those slain for the word of God - Rev 6:9

There are three witnesses. That's enough for a conviction in most states unless you do not have ears to hear or eyes to see.
Mt13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
---trey on 2/28/13


Mark_V: In addition to your last comment Jerry & Co should refer to Matt.22:29-32 wherein the Lord Jesus Christ clearly explained that "God is not the God of the dead, but of the living".
---Adetunji on 2/28/13


That the spirit of man is dead also,
---Mark_V. on 2/28/13

Where have you ever seen me or jerry post that "the spirit of man is dead?"

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath [is] in me, and the spirit of God [is] in my nostrils,

Can the wind die?
---francis on 2/28/13


Jerry, you and francis suggest the Bible is wrong, that we are not spiritually alive when our flesh dies. That the spirit of man is dead also, and go around giving many names for the spirit and the soul. But it is written,
"But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trepasses, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved "and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus..."
So what you are saying is that when our flesh dies, we stop been together with Christ spiritually in the heavenly places. Don't you understand, that once in the spiritual body of Christ, that is where will be forever?
---Mark_V. on 2/28/13


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Leest: You seem intent on proving that you don't keep the one law you claim to be in force - "love thy neighbor". All of your lying hate speech does not change the FACT that you added the word "body" to the scripture in order to prop up your belief in spiritualism. If your belief in spooks is right then the entire Bible is wrong. Your argument is not with me, it's with God!



---jerry6593 on 2/28/13


Is the concept of conscious existence as a disembodied spirit Biblical?
---jerry6593 on 2/22/13

Here is what the bible says about the consciousness of those who are dead:

Ecclesiastes 9:5 the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished,

Psalms 146:4 that very day his thoughts perish.

Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Job 14:21 he perceiveth it not of them.




1: No memory
2: No thought
3: No love
4: No hatred
5: No envy
6: No praise
7L No perception
---francis on 2/27/13


--e.lee7537 on 2/27/13
In a sence YES, spirit and soul is the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

But this is talking about the breath of God that every man good or evil has in him. our intent, or love, or thoughts, does not go to God because these are brain function

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
Genesis 7:22 All in whose nostrils [was] the breath of life, of all that [was] in the dry [land], died.

Job 27:3 All the while my breath [is] in me, and the spirit of God [is] in my nostrils,
---francis on 2/27/13


Francis//Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
---
And what is "spirit" but that which is really us?
---e.lee7537 on 2/27/13


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jerry //You have commited the sin of adding to scripture.

While I have a different interpretation (usually one based upon what the saints of His Church has held for centuries), what Adventists have done is to add much to scripture. Ever read olde Ellen White's books?

+ Add to the requirements for Salvation
- Subtract from the deity of Christ
x Multiply the 1844 heresy
/ Divide the Body of Christ by dividing thelaw + confusing the Covenants

= Seventh Day Adventism
---e.lee7537 on 2/27/13


Leest: "The Bible plainly states of the body of David.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. "

You really need to brush up on your reading skills! The word "body" does not appear in the scripture you quoted, but rather the word "he" - meaning the person "David" is still in the grave and has not ascended to heaven. Maybe that's why David wrote:

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

You have commited the sin of adding to scripture.



---jerry6593 on 2/27/13


Francis - Yep! David's body is in the grave, but where is His Spirit? You really do not know.
---e.lee7537 on 2/26/13
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
---francis on 2/26/13


Francis - Yep! David's body is in the grave, but where is His Spirit? You really do not know.

The Bible plainly states of the body of David.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

At the resurrection, those in Christ will be united with their bodies.

Death is not the cessation of ones existence. We can see that in luke 16.
---e.lee7537 on 2/26/13


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Leest: "Yep, if we can believe the scipture that Jesus had a spirit within Him that went back to God the father, then we can surmise David is with the Lord now."

Non sequitur!

The Bible plainly states:

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Act 2:34 For David is NOT ascended into the heavens:

Now we could believe you or we could believe the Bible. I'll go with the Bible.


---jerry6593 on 2/26/13


---e.lee7537 on 2/24/13
Good post.

But the function of the brain is just that, brain function.

Emotion, fear, pain, are all functions of the brain.

When we hold certain beliefs to be true and when we are passionate about them, then we say that that is our " soul." or heart.

When two people share a common passion like david and jonathan, we say that are one soul.

Now consider the african american use of the world soul. If you were to take that as biblical, motown would not go out of business we would have R and B in every church, it is soul music after all.

Not to mention every pot luck would have " Soul food."
---francis on 2/24/13


In one Bible dictionary soul comes to stand for the individual, personal life, the person, with 2 distinct shades of meaning which might best be indicated by the Latin anima and animus.

As anima, "soul," the life inherent in the body, the animating principle in the blood is denoted (compare #De 12:23,24, Only be sure that thou eat not the blood: for the blood is the soul, and thou shalt not eat the soul with the flesh).

As animus, "mind," the center of our mental activities and passivities is indicated. Thus we read of a hungry soul (#Ps 107:9), a weary soul (#Jer 31:25), a loathing soul (#Le 26:11), a thirsty soul (#Ps 42:2), a grieved soul (#Job 30:25), a loving soul (#So 1:7), and many kindred expressions.
---e.lee7537 on 2/24/13


Jerry, on 2/23/13 you said >

"Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,

"Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.


"What's unclear about that?"

What is clear is Jesus says, "God is not the God of the dead, but of the living," in Matthew 22:32. He says this after quoting > "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" > so He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who therefore are not dead but "the living".

Also, it's clear Ecclesiastes can mean that ones who have died no longer have thoughts and knowing in *this* life.
---willie_c: on 2/24/13


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"On this account, if it continues solitary, it tends downward towards matter, and dies with the flesh, but, if it enters into union with the Divine Spirit, it is no longer helpless, but ascends to the regions whither the Spirit guides it: for the dwelling-place of the spirit is above, but the origin of the soul is from beneath."-Taitian[a.d. 110-172.]
"The soul, then, lives by God when it lives well, for it cannot live well unless by God working in it what is good, and the body lives by the soul when the soul lives in the body, whether itself be living by God or no."-Augustine(a.d 354-430)
-francis' doctrine comes from a 19th century false prophetess.
-Believe francis or the Truth, the choice is yours.
---micha9344 on 2/24/13


Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

That is a very good reason to stick to the Bible and the Bible alone. Unfortunately, there are those that instead of the Bible follow the writings or teachings of their founders. Such is the case with those that are Sabbaterians like the Adventists or Church of God.

They are the ones that are still dead spiritually.

"let the dead bury their dead" - Jesus
---e.lee7537 on 2/24/13


micha9344 on 2/24/13

Genesis 46:22 These are the sons of Rachel, which were born to Jacob: all the souls were fourteen.

Can humans give birth to a soul if a soul is not a person?

Joshua 10:28 And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein,

So as you see people CAN destroy souls as joshua did

Jeremiah 2:34 Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents:

Soul can bleed

Ezekiel 22:27 Her princes in the midst thereof [are] like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, [and] to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain

Souls can be destropyed by man
---francis on 2/24/13


Follower of Gad//Acts 2:29
"... let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre (grave) is with us unto this day"

But where O'Where is David's spirit?

Our being is composed of 3 entities - body, soul, and spirit.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

You have to ignore the plain teachings of Scripture to support your view that there is no consciousness after the death of the body.

The Christian church has always held that at our resurrection, our body unites with our spirit.
---e.lee7537 on 2/24/13


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micha9344//Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
**the verse makes a distinction between soul and body.


-Believe God's Word or francis ..your choice.
---e.lee7537 on 2/24/13


Will death separate us from the love of God? Scripture says no.

Romans 8:38-39 For I ampersuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Again, where does our spirit go upon death of the body? 1 Thes.5:23

You have to believe in your soul sleep thing in order to justify your non-biblical Investigative Judgment thing.

Believe God's Word or the erroneous doctrines of Adventism - your choice.
---e.lee7537 on 2/24/13


Jerrry /Is King David (a man after God's own heart) alive and awake in Heaven today?

Yep, if we can believe the scipture


spiritually blind (like Lee) reject Gods warning Proverbs 30:6 to "surmise" (aka add by guessing) instead openly rejecting written Word of God that states King David is dead, in the grave, and is not in heaven


Acts 2:29
"... let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre (grave) is with us unto this day"

Choose "word of Lee" who has no spiritual understanding and rejects Gods Word or choose Word of God that states (Acts 2:34) For David is not ascended into the heavens
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/24/13


"...2: Soul is a living person, not somthing inside a person
Genesis 3:19 dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."-francis on 2/24/13
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
-Believe francis or believe Jesus...your choice.
---micha9344 on 2/24/13


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Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
(Matthew 17 and Mark 9)

What say you?

Gehazi said to himself, My master was too easy on Naaman, I will run after him and get something from him.

When he went before his master, Elisha asked him, Where have you been?

Your servant didnt go anywhere, Gehazi answered.

26 But Elisha said to him, Was not my spirit with you when the man got down from his chariot to meet you? Is this the time to take money or to accept clothesor olive groves and vineyards, or flocks and herds? 27 Naamans leprosy will cling to you and to your descendants forever. Then Gehazi went from Elishas presence and his skin was leprousit had become as white as snow.
---bike4335 on 2/24/13


Jerrry /Is King David (a man after God's own heart) alive and awake in Heaven today?

Yep, if we can believe the scipture that Jesus had a spirit within Him that went back to God the father, then we can surmise David is with the Lord now.

What did Jesus on the Cross give to God the Father?

Lu 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

According to your reasoning, all God the Father got from Jesus was a puff of air.

Answer me, when Jesus died on the Cross, did He know nothing until the Resurrection?

Our spirit goes back to God and we will be united with our body at the resurrection of the dead.
---e.lee7537 on 2/24/13


Answer me this: Is King David (a man after God's own heart) alive and awake in Heaven today? I'd really like to hear your answer on this.

(raising my hand) "pick me, pick me"

It's really too easy, so it is a bit unfair that I'm answering for Lee however....

Acts 2:29
Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre (grave) is with us unto this day. (notice, King David is not in heaven Acts 2:34, David is in the grave, notice he is not alive, he is dead)

Yet many believe they are greater than Abraham and the prophets deceived they will not die John 8:53
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/24/13


---e.lee7537 on 2/23/13 Genesis 2:7 the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man BECAME a living soul.

Body ( made of dust) + Breath of Life = SOUL

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Body - breath of life = No soul / death

Iames 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead,

Body - Spirit = Dead no soul

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

This tells us two things
1: Soul can and will die
2: Soul is a living person, not somthing inside a person

Genesis 3:19 dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
---francis on 2/24/13


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Lee: Once again you are arguing against scripture. All of your scripture twisting and mental gymnastics can't get around the fact that the dead are really dead, i.e., not alive and thinking.

Answer me this: Is King David (a man after God's own heart) alive and awake in Heaven today? I'd really like to hear your answer on this.



---jerry6593 on 2/24/13


Why do Adventists deliberately chose to ignore the fact that man is composed of 3 entities?

1 Thes.5:23b I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Is it because they chose instead to supercede the plain words of scripture to their own erroneous false doctrines?There is always some group somewhere whose founder does only peep and mutter.

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
---e.lee7537 on 2/23/13


Genesis 2:7
"... man became a living soul"

Man became a living soul, it does not say man previously existed, and that soul (MAN) is appointed to die Heb 9:27 1 Corin 15:22

Ezekiel 18:20 (also Psalm 78:50)
The soul that sinneth, it shall die

To die (aka death) is absence of life, soul (mans physical body) returns to dust. Holy Scripture explains dead know nothing Isaiah 26:19 Psalm 104:29 Genesis 3:19 Ecc 12:7

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Those without spiritual understanding argue the idea the dead do not die and are alive rejecting plain written Word of God.
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/23/13


(1 Timothy 5:6) So, one can be conscious while "dead".

In 1 Timothy 5:6 the women is not dead (as in not alive) with a conscious (aware/memory) because dead know nothing and memory ceases to exist Ecc 9:5 Isaiah 26:14

Verse 6 describes a women who is alive living for pleasure, rather than purity and trust in God (verses 2,5) which means she is not living for the fruits of the Lord through the Spirit, she is living pleasures of physical life and its rewards are not eternal life. She is alive like all people are alive however she is spiritually dead.

John 11:25
Those who are in Christ (spiritually alive in Him) shall live again at the resurrection of all 1 Corin 15
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/23/13


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Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

God gave the dust BREATH OF LIFE and the dust became a soul

God did not give the dust a soul

When man dies:
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

Ezekiel 18:4 the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead,

Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

If the " soul" went to heaven at death, what it is doing in the grave / hell?
---francis on 2/23/13


Willie c,**So one can be consious while "dead"**
Of course one can be "literally" conscious while "spiritually" dead!
If you don't know it, the bible is not a "Literal" book in all it's writings!
Being literally dead and alive at the same time is the height of ambiguity!
---1st_cliff on 2/23/13


//Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.


What's unclear about that?
****
Nothing, however what is clear is that these scriptures speak of the BODY: not not not the spirit that dwellls within man.

Humans possess a body, a spirit and a soul says Scripture.

1 Thes.5:23b I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

O, says the Adventist, that has to be a mistranslation that may have existed in the very orginal letter.
---e.lee7537 on 2/23/13


Jerry that is quite a mouthful "conscious existence of a disembodied spirit".

Impossible to help those who believe this non-biblical philosophical sentence in one post (or several) because this theory can only be possible with the wrong teachings associated with: immortality of the soul, soul, spirit, death, and most importantly the rejection of many Christian religions of the coming of the Lord to earth and the resurrection of all. Essentially the rejection of the resurrection is probably the key point because most believe they are immortal which rejects the gift of salvation to begin with.
---Follower_of_Christ on 2/23/13


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Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished,

Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.

The bible says that at the moment of death all our emotions cease: love, hatred, envy, is now perished

The bible even go as far as to say that even our very thoughts perish, and that we have no more memory

Simple put, when we die we turn to DUST
Dust has no emotion, no memory, no thought, that is all living things at death DUST
---francis on 2/23/13


Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing,

Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth, in that very day his thoughts perish.


What's unclear about that?


---jerry6593 on 2/23/13


Now our conscious experience includes what we feel with our bodies. So, of course, it is basic that, once we are not in our bodies, we will not have conscious experience which includes feeling what our bodies are feeling.

However . . . Paul clearly does say that those who leave this life as Christians "sleep in Jesus." (in 1 Thessalonians 4:14) Jesus is conscious, and those souls under the altar were told to "rest a little longer" (in Revelation 6:9-11), not to "sleep". Plus, they could communicate.

Maybe someone will argue they were talking in their sleep (c:

"But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives." (1 Timothy 5:6) So, one can be conscious while "dead".
---willie_c: on 2/22/13


Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground, for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay, and wilt thou bring me into dust again?

Psalms 103:14 For he knoweth our frame, he remembereth that we [are] dust.

We are not spirits trapped into a body, we are DUST with the spirit of God.

When we die, we return to dust, and God gets His spirit back
---francis on 2/22/13


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YES. We are spirit beings in temporary shells.

Matthew 22:30
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage, they will be like the angels in heaven.

Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.

Matthew 22:32
I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.

Luke 23:43
Jesus answered a thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise.
---Born on 2/22/13


//Is the concept of conscious existence as a disembodied spirit Biblical?

If we believe that the story of Lazarus, the poor begger and the rich man in hell (Luke 16) are like all the other parables of Jesus, ie. based on true events, then we have to conclude there is a consciousness after death.

Also if we believe like the the OT saints as well as what was believed in the early church, then we can hold that there is a life after death.

Scripture list 3 entities to our being -

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
---e.lee7537 on 2/22/13


The heaven and hell quiz is flawed because it doesn't differentiate between the three different "hells" treats them all as a place for the wicked when sheol/Hades is the common grave of mankind!
Jesus said that those in the "grave" will "will hear my voice and come out" (no wicked here)
---1st_clifff on 2/22/13


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