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Is Jesus God

Is Jesus God or a god?

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 ---Warwick on 2/26/13
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"Its a special time of year to remember the death of Jesus Christ and its real meaning for us all. (John 17:3)" David8318

Agreed brother!

May you and your family be blessed during this special time of remembrance.
---scott on 3/5/13


Like your style scott. 1 invitation to reach a wide audience. Why didn't I think of that?

Hope you and your congregation have a great time with the Memorial campaign.

Its a special time of year to remember the death of Jesus Christ and its real meaning for us all. (John 17:3)
---David8318 on 3/4/13


*************************************************************************************

JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR ALL MANKIND! (Romans 5:14)


Some 20 million people, in all parts of the world, will commemorate this incredibly significant occasion on the anniversary of his sacrificial death:

TUESDAY, MARCH 26, 2013.

All are welcome. Look for personal invitations to arrive soon or locate a nearby Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses.



"Do this in remembrance of me." Luke 22:19

*************************************************************************************
---scott on 3/4/13


"Sharp's "Rule"- Marc, Warwick

To gnash your teeth and criticize JWs for their rendering of the verses in question, when so many other important scholars have similarly ignored Sharp's "rule", is misleading and dishonest.

Most bibles translate Eph. 5:5 (with a Sharp Construction):

"in the kingdom of Christ and of God." NEB, REB, NRSV, RSV, NAB, KJV, MLB, LB, NIV, GNB, TEV, Amplified Bible, and Phillips.

Clearly, two persons are being described. What happened to Sharp's rule?

1 Tim. 6:13- "Before (in the sight or presence of) God ... and before Christ Jesus...."


By definition, a "rule" with exceptions isn't a rule.
---scott on 3/3/13


The biggest problem I see here in understanding the verses concerning Jesus Christ is the translation these men are using. If they would look to the KJV instead of their "Reversed Visions" tranlations they might see the truth. I believe the real truth here is that none are so blind as those who refuse to see.

John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Php2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Mt11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
---trey on 3/3/13




David you are such a hypocrite. When you cut and pasted your comments regarding the Granville Sharp 6th rule from Watchtower information you were happy with it. However when you discovered it destroys your case you attempt to ridicule Granville Sharp. You need to go to source rather than mindlessly regurgitating Watchtower selective quotes.
---Warwick on 3/3/13


'Why would I look at a conversation that happened about a week and a half previously for its context?'- Marc.

Because if you don't, you become a polytheist. So in that week and a half Jesus morphed into 'the God' he said he would ascend to in 20:17. My belief is bizarre!?

Marc has already shown us how he cherry picks scripture by misquoting the words of Jesus Christ at Jo.20:17. Marc is blind to the fact Jesus ascends to 'his God'. Ignoring context as Marc does leads him into polytheism. Marc has one God at Jo.20:17 and another at 20:28.

In context, John concluded by saying, 'these things were written that you may believe Christ is the Son of God'- 20:31.
---David8318 on 3/3/13


Lastly, you have read that the Father is both Lord and God: O Lord my God, I will call upon Thee, hear Thou me.1375 You find the Son to be both Lord and God, as you have read in the Gospel, that, when Thomas had touched the side of Christ, he said, My Lord and my God.1376 So in like manner as the Father is God and the Son Lord, so too the Son is God and the Father Lord. The holy designation changes from one to the other, the divine nature changes not, but the dignity remains unchangeable. For they are not [as it were] contributions gathered from bounty, but free-will gifts of natural love, for both Unity has its special property, and the special properties are bound together in unity.--Ambrose (AD 340-397)
---micha9344 on 3/3/13


If at John 20:28 only 1 referent is in view despite 2 articles ('the') before the nouns, makes a mockery of the Greek. All translators agree there is 1 referent at 20:17 because only 1 article appears. Trinitarians want the same to apply to 20:28 despite 2 articles present. Thus, making exceptions on the basis of dogma makes grammar obsolete. You can twist scripture to suit whatever you want it to say.

Context however always influences grammar in all languages. As there are 2 articles at Jo.20:28, it is reasonable to conclude there are 2 referents. This concurs with the context and sentence structure of John 20:17 which has 1 article, 1 referent. The fact Thomas spoke to Jesus does not alter the meaning or structure of 20:28.
---David8318 on 3/2/13


David/Scott,

Even the liberal scholar Bart Ehrman recognises "[b]ecause the article is not repeated before [Jesou] (in 2 Pet 1:1), it would be natural to understand both 'our God' and 'Savior' in reference to Jesus." (Orthodox Corruption, p. 267). Brian Wright continues: "Ehrman recognises that one article with 2 nouns joined by kai refers to the same person, making Titus 2:13 an explicit reference to Jesus as theos." (Jesus as THEOS, p. 234)
---Marc on 3/2/13




David,

You've claimed I should be comprehending Thomas's claim to Jesus at John 20:28 by referring to its context at 20:17. How bizarrely convenient! Why would I look at a conversation that happened about a week and a half previously for its context? (See verse 26.)

You door-knocking JWs are always cherry picking verses and removing them from their real context. Thomas, following Greek grammar, said TO Jesus that he was both God and Lord.
---Marc on 3/2/13


Titus 2:13 (3)

The CEV-

"We are filled with hope, as we wait for the glorious return of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ." [A]

Footnote: A . "Titus 2:13 the glorious return of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ: Or "the glorious return of our great God and our Savior Jesus Christ" or "the return of Jesus Christ, who is the glory of our great God and Savior." According to An Idiom-Book of New Testament Greek, by C. F. D. Moule, Cambridge, England, 1971, p. 109, at Titus 2:13, the sense "of the Great God, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ ... is possible in [NT] Greek even without the repetition [of the definite article before the second noun]."
---scott on 3/1/13


For those of you who are reading these blogs are are uncertain I'll give you a clue:

"Titus2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ," is the correct translation.

The Apostle Paul is not speaking of two divine persons, only one, are here intended, for the word: rendered "appearing", is never used of God the Father, only of the second person
---trey on 3/1/13


"You really do not get it." Mark_Eaton

Get what?

You keep posting verses that you say contain God's name (with some apparent connection to Christ in the NT) and yet the verses that you're posting seldom, if ever, actually contain God's name.

Instead, the Hebrew translation that you're using contains the Jewish alteration "Hashem" which, as I tried to point out (clever Alex Trebek reference included) simply means, "the Name".

What exactly is your point?
---scott on 3/1/13


'This alters the meaning of the statement because it immediately tells you to whom the statement is directed'- Marc.

Again, Marc is driven by the trinity dogma and not by what is written in the Bible.Context also has a bearing on the meaning of sentences in ALL languages- especially Koine Greek and Marc makes the error of ignoring John 20:17 which lays the context for what follows.

I agree Thomas' remark was said to Jesus. That is not in dispute and is not the issue. Why does the fact that Thomas said what he said to Jesus 'alter the meaning'?

It only alters the meaning in Marc's mind for the sake of the trinity dogma, and not because grammar and context dictate.
---David8318 on 3/1/13


Titus 2:13 (2)

"our great God and the appearing of...Yeshua." CJB

"that mighty God, and of our Savior Jesus Christ." GNV

"greate God and of oure Sauioure Iesu Christ." Coverdale

"that mightie God, and of our Sauiour Iesus Christ." Geneva

"greet God, and of oure sauyour Jhesu Crist." Wycliffe

"myghty god and of oure savioure Iesu Christ." Tyndale

"supreme God, and of our saviour Jesus Christ." Mace

"great God and of our Saviour Jesus Christ." Noyes

"the great God and of our Savior Christ Jesus." Riverside

"the great God and of our Saviour Jesus Christ." Sawyer
---scott on 3/1/13


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David,

Granville Sharp and I have tediously explained why John 20:28 is an exception to his 6th rule. The additional information of Thomas's words directed "to Jesus" (auto) brings in an object of the verb. This alters the meaning of the statement because it immediately tells you to whom the statement is directed. It would be the same in ANY language, not just Greek.

People who, like myself, have learned a half dozen or so languages and who teach language professionally realise that language rules are often overridden or suspended. But of course you won't understand because you're dishonest and won't respond to Sharp's address of 1 Pe.1:11 and Titus 2:13 where Jesus is called 'The God'. Apparently again lying for Jehovah.
---Marc on 3/1/13


Sharpe's "rule" - Titus 3:13-

To the chagrin of our Granville Sharpe advocates, it's notable that other highly respected bible scholars ignore these "rules" and translate Titus 2:13 as follows:

James Moffatt:

"awaiting...the appearance of the Glory of the great God and of our Saviour Christ Jesus."

(Catholic) New American Bible:

"as we await...the appearance of the glory of the great God and of our savior Jesus Christ."

JP Phillips NT:

"the glorious dnouement of the Great God and of Jesus Christ our saviour."

See also the Authentic New Testament [Schonfield] and the Jerusalem Bible footnote.
---scott on 3/1/13


Nope. Only one does...I'll let you figure out which.
---scott on 3/1/13

You really do not get it. Why are you so crafty, elusive, and devisive?

Here is what you missed:

IS 45:18 "For thus saith Hashem Borei HaShomayim hu HaElohim Yotzer haaretz and its Maker, He hath established it, He created it not tohu (chaos), He formed it to be inhabited, I am Hashem, and there is no other [G-d]"

Its just like real estate. Context, context, context.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/1/13


'you translate John 1:1 as "and the word was god'. No, thats the trinitarian rendering. Correct rendering is 'a god'.

At John 1:1, (ho theos) 'the God' and (theos) 'a god' or 'divine', 'godlike'. The correct non-polytheist rendering of 'theos' at John 1:1 describes 'the Word' as 'divine'. Unlike Marc who identifies the Word as another God alongside the God 'the Word was with'.

Marc believes not just 2 God's at John 1:1 but that they are Almighty God's. As polytheist co-conspirator Ruben told us previous- "THEY"... 'are equal in nature as Almighty God'.

Marc's rendering of both John 1:1 and John 20:28 is a polytheist multi-Almighty God rendering.
---David8318 on 3/1/13


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"Both of these verses contain the tetragrammaton." Mark_Eaton

Nope. Only one does...I'll let you figure out which.
---scott on 3/1/13


'there is no article in John 20:17's "and to my God and to your God"'- Marc.

Partially quoting a trinitarian "scholar" (ie. Mr Sharp) albeit truthfully, is far different to misrepresenting the Lord Jesus Christ as Marc does above. Marc spits his venomous poison whenever his theology is challenged and you can always tell when Marc loses the argument when he screams like a banshee 'lie, lie, lie' without giving any evidence. I have not lied, I've truthfully quoted what Greek scholars agree (including Mr Sharp), that 1 article means 1 referent. 2 articles, 2 referents.

Marc, you're not my 'mate', I don't have company with pagan polytheists. Trinitarians are dead pagans walking. Their lying taunts hold no weight.
---David8318 on 3/1/13


You're welcome!
---scott on 2/28/13

Here are some more verses in case you missed them:

OJB Is 45:23 "...that unto Me kol berekh (every knee) shall bow, kol lashon (every tongue) shall swear"

OJB Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the Shem of Adonoi shall be saved"

Both of these verses contain the tetragrammaton. Each appear in the NT (Rom 10:9-10, Phil 2:11) and in the NT they relate specifically to Jesus.
---Mark_Eaton on 3/1/13


Everyone in here should learn Hebrew. It is an amazing language and actually very easy to learn. So many hidden ancient meanings to even the letters that make up their alphabet. I encourage you all to learn this. It takes only 20-30 mins per day.

Hebrew has opened my eyes to so much that God was saying about himself that western Christianity misses out on because we do not know the original language.

Yod Hey Vav/Waw Hey (YHVH/YHWH)
Each of those letters has ancient Hebrew meanings

Hey-behold, Yod-closed hand/fist, Vav/Waw-hook/nail.

God was telling us over 4000 years ago WHO he was. Jesus Christ IS God come in the flesh.
---JackB on 2/28/13


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---Rob on 2/28/13
correct your lie and your ignorance:

God the Eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ... Forever truly God, He became also truly man, SDA Fundamental Beliefs, 4 __

1: Jesus is THE ANGEL OF THE LORD /GOD Genesis 22:11-12
2: Jesus is the Image of the Father Colossians 1:15 ( MICHAEL = who is like God)
3: Jesus is the creator John 1:1-4( Not being himself created)
4: Jesus' voice will raise the dead John 5:28
5: The Archangel's voice will raise the dead: 1 Thess 4:16
6: Jesus leads all the armies of God Joshua 5:14
7: Michael leads all the Lord's Army: Rev 12:7
8: Jesus is the Chief messenger of God: Hebrews 1:2
Michael: Colossians 1:15
Arch: John 1:1-4
Angel: Hebrews 1:2
---francis on 2/28/13


David, you are a liar which seems standard fare for JW's. You have been told repeatedly, we believe (as the creeds show) in 1 God in 3 persons. Remember God is invisible Spirit therefore you cannot not see Him. John 14:9 " Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." Jesus shows "He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature," Hebrews 1:3, also Philippians 2:6. This demonstrates when we see God we will see 1 Jesus, not 3. You call us polytheists, which is hypocrisy as you have 1 Almighty God, 1 Mighty God, and a god thrown in to make an unholy Trinity. You continue to lie despite being told the truth. You condemn yourself.
---Warwick on 3/1/13


'there is no article in John 20:17's "and to my God and to your God"'- Marc.

Selective quoting the Bible as Marc does is even more damning. Marc cowers behind Sharp's exception for the sake of his false dogma and is unable to look at what Jesus fully stated at John 20:17.

John 20:17, Jesus said to Mary, 'TON patera mou kai patera humon kai theon mou kai theon humon', literally: 'THE father of me and father of you and God of me and God of you'- one article for the whole possessive phrase. 1 article, 1 referent. Marc believes there is 1 referent at John 20:28 (despite the 2 articles). Marc has one God at 20:17 and another at 20:28!

Thus, Marc clearly is a pagan polytheist, driven by dogma and not by what is written.
---David8318 on 3/1/13


David claims I have "a polytheist understanding of John 20."

No, David, no Trinitarian is a polytheist. You lie and thus speak false witness against us. But what makes this false accusation even more BIZARRE is that JWs are the genuine polytheists. You throw a few red herrings in order to escape the obvious. If you believe that Jesus is "a god" which you do because you translate John 1:1 as "and the word was god" - then primary school maths leads you to 1 God plus another 1 god equals 2 G/gods.

Mate, stop denying the obvious: 1+1=2. You therefore are a polytheist.
---Marc on 3/1/13


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Rev.8:11 I am the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Doubting Thomases, stop doubting, JESUS IS GOD. If the Bible your sect is using is different, (it is not your fault) pray to God whom you believe in to show you the truth.
---Adetunji on 3/1/13


David,

You once again refuse to answer the following: If, as you say, 1 article is 1 referent, why from 1Pe.1:11 and Titus 2:13 do you David the JW not call Jesus "The God" just as both Peter and Paul have written in Greek? Because The Watchtower causes its followers to lie and to be evasive.

BTW, there is no article in John 20:17's "and to my God and to your God". Care to comment or would you prefer to reinvent the Greek and its rules. David's Rules? Nah, not as regal sounding as Granville Sharp.
---Marc on 2/28/13


Seventh day Adventist do not teach that JESUS is the Archangel Michael like the way it is stated here. We teach something similar but there is a major difference.

We teach that JESUS who is GOD has an additional title as the leader of all the Angels which is what Archangel means and as the leader preincarnation he used the name Michael. A position that has been held by many Biblical Scholars in History.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/28/13


JESUS is GOD with us. He has existed from all eternity and created everything that has been created. So he could not have created himself.

Psa 132:5 Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty [God] of Jacob.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 10:21 The remnant shall return, [even] the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/28/13


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"Jehovah cannot be defined." francis

But that wasn't the question was it?

The divine name, Jehovah (YHWH) appears some 7,000 times in the OT/Hebrew scriptures (sadly, removed by most modern translations).

But the Hebrew word for "God" is "El" or "Elohim".

What is the lexical definition of "God" (Elohim")?

Is that not key, even crucial, to the discussion on this blog thread?
---scott on 2/28/13


'two definite articles is essentially irrelevant'- Marc.

If that's what Marc wants to believe, he is quite welcome to believe it that way. But its a polytheist understanding of John 20.

It was Marc who raised Granville Sharp, not me. Regardless of who Mr Sharp happens to be, Greek convention has always been, 1 article, 1 referent. 2 articles, 2 referents.

1 article, 1 referent is seen at John 20:17 where 1 article is used for the whole possessive phrase. Marc hides behind Sharp's exception to John 20:28 and casts the '2 articles, 2 referents' rule out the window. Thomas addresses one God at 20:28 and Jesus refers to another God at 20:17. How many God's does Marc want to believe!?
---David8318 on 2/28/13


Francis, are you denying Seventh Day Adventist don't believe and don't teach Jesus is the Arch Angel Michael?
---Rob on 2/28/13


What is the Lexical definition of the Hebrew and Greek words for "God"?
---scott on 2/28/13
Jehovah cannot be defined. All we know of Jehovah are his various attributes

Genesis 15:1 Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield,

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM:

Jehovahjireh:
Jehovahnissi:
Jehovahshalom:
None of these are names of God, only attributes

Exodus 34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.

Exodus 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
---francis on 2/28/13


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...Do you then when you call the Son Lord either deny the Son or confess two Lords? God forbid, for the Son Himself said: Do not serve two lords. But certainly He denied not either Himself or the Father to be Lord, for He called the Father Lord, as you read: I thank Thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth. And the Lord spoke of Himself, as we read in the Gospel: Ye call Me Master and Lord, and ye do well, for so I am. But He spoke not of two Lords, indeed He shows that He did not speak of two Lords, when He warns them: Do not serve two lords. For there are not two Lords where the Lordship is but one, for the Father is in the Son and the Son in the Father, and so there is one Lord.-Ambrose (AD 340-397)
---micha9344 on 2/28/13


"Its called reading both NT and OT and connecting them." Mark_Eaton

So, to be clear, you're saying that no bible translator, ever, has translated the verse as you have previously asserted? Just sort of creating your own based on your understanding of the verses? Ok.

"OJB replace YHWH with Hashem." Mark_Eaton

As a side note: "Hashem" simply means "the name" in Hebrew. Because of centuries of superstitious, Jewish tradition, (most) "Orthodox" Jews refuse to utter the name (YHWH) and, as your reference demonstrates, it has even, sadly, caused some to alter their translations of God's word.

There, now you're ready for Alex Trebec = )

You're welcome!
---scott on 2/28/13


Jesus is God,in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God,the word became flesh.
---Emmanuel_owusu_Banahene on 2/28/13


Seventh Day Adventist don't believe Jesus is God, but is Michael the Archangel.
---Rob on 2/28/13
Are you the very same Bob who claimed to be a SDA in the past? When you say things like that who can believe that you ever a SDA but a badly behaved adopted child!

God the Eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary.--Fundamental Beliefs, 4
---francis on 2/28/13


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Scott, as usual you attempt to duck the questions. Calling JW's evasive is not an insult, as it is observable fact. You are a perfect example.

Again I ask: You wrote "The word is "Kurios" {Lord} not Theos" (God). As you began this please define what you mean by "God." And while you are at it please define what you take 'the God' (O Theos) to mean?
---Warwick on 2/28/13


David,

Your dishonesty acquires new heights. You claim I am "naively ignorant of context, grammar and Sharp's rule." You lean on Sharp's expertise just enough to dupe people into believing Sharp said the opposite of what he said, and then throw in the usual contentless Trinitarian ad hominem, though careful not to include Sharp, despite Sharp being one. Talk about wanting your cake and eat it too.

Sharp, apropos Rule 1, said 1Pet 1:11 and Titus 2:13 both called Jesus THE God. Apropos Rule 6, Sharp said because John said Thomas directed the words "The God of me" to Jesus, the inclusion of two definite articles is essentially irrelevant. How dishonest, but unsurprising, a JW twists an expert's words yet again.
---Marc on 2/28/13


Define "God". "Creator"- francis

"Creator" does not define the word "God" (Hebrew- Elohim or Greek- Theos).

it describes a facet, albeit a most important facet, of who God is and what He has accomplished. In fact his very name YHWH (not Elohim) means "He causes to become". So His very name is a reference to Him as Creator.

But that is still a separate issue than the definition of the word "God".

You could say "the King is a mighty warrior". But that doesn't tell us what the Hebrew word for King (Melech) really means.

What is the Lexical definition of the Hebrew and Greek words for "God"?
---scott on 2/28/13


And where might I find a copy of the Bible with this particular "rendering" so as to add it to my library?
---scott on 2/28/13

Its called reading both NT and OT and connecting them.

KJV Luke 4:18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me..."

OJB Is 61:1 The Ruach [Hakodesh] of Adonoi Hashem is upon me [Moshiach], because Hashem mashach (hath anointed) me [Moshiach]..."

In the Isaiah passage the OJB has replace YHWH with Hashem and in the Luke passage, the KJV has replaced YHWH with "kyrios". Both passages are identical and "kyrios" is used for the tetragrammaton many other times in the NT.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/28/13


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Define "God".
---scott on 2/27/13
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Jonah 1:9 And he said unto them, I [am] an Hebrew, and I fear the LORD, the God of heaven, which hath made the sea and the dry [land].

Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

GOD IS THE ONE WHO CREATED
---francis on 2/28/13


"Perhaps you would prefer this rendering of Phil 2:11" Mark_Eaton

And where might I find a copy of the Bible with this particular "rendering" so as to add it to my library?

Not saying it doesn't exist...just haven't seen it myself.
---scott on 2/28/13


Mormons don't believe Jesus is God, but is the brother of Satan.

Jehovah Witness don't believe Jesus is God but was a god.

Seventh Day Adventist don't believe Jesus is God, but is Michael the Archangel.

Have you notice these groups all have things they try to pass as being the Bible?
---Rob on 2/28/13


The word is "Kurios" {Lord} not Theos" (God).
---scott on 2/27/13

Yes, exactly. And "kurios" is used in many NT passages to replace the tetragrammaton. Even you agree that the tetragrammaton is a representation the name of God.

Therefore, perhaps you would prefer this rendering of Phil 2:11

"...every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is YHWH to the glory of God the Father"
---Mark_Eaton on 2/28/13


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JESUS (YAHUSHUA) is God the Son. He is God of very GOD. The "World Translation bible" says that JESUS is "a god". But, those writings are a false translation of the Holy Scriptures. It must be understood that GOD is Three Divine Persons. Each Person is Divine and each One rules within the GOD-Head. They share ultimate Authority over all Creation. They work and relate as the most loving "Team" and "Family". GOD is not "One lonely Person" up in Heaven Who "had to create mankind" because He was "lonely". NO. GOD of Three Persons loved each other to the fullest. And, because They are LOVE, They created mankind in HIS/THEIR Image to have MORE beings to love and be loved by.
---Gordon on 2/28/13


"It would be helpful to establish the actual definition of the word "God" that you are basing your question on." scott

Obviously you're an unbeliever pretending to be a believer, and that's clear as daylight.

What's so hard to believe that Jesus Christ is God? Oh yes, Paul did say "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." It would be hard if you have not receive God's gift that's called, "FAITH"!

And why have you not receive it? That's because Christ declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Ouch!
---christan on 2/28/13


The Lexical definition of God - "Gee Scott that's hard to answer,not!"- Warwick

Then answer the question.

In your haste to insult and criticize you failed to do so.

The truth found in God's inspired Word is based on language, specific words that God chose, to communicate His thoughts through inspired writers.

Any honest investigation of a bible subject (creation, salvation, God, etc.) has to be based upon a clear definition of the language that's employed first.

If research scientists didn't use certain baseline standards while employing the 'Scientific Method' in their work (Google the 4 steps) than the scientific community would laugh at and disregard anything that their research produced.
---scott on 2/28/13


Gee Scott that's hard to answer,not! Is it that people learn to become evasive when they become part of the JW cult, or is it that the already evasive join, having found like minds therein?

You wrote "The word is "Kurios" {Lord} not Theos" (God). As you began this please define what you mean by "God." And while you are at it please define what you take 'the God' (O Theos) to mean?
---Warwick on 2/27/13


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James, Do you understand the meaning of "with?"
With always indicates more than one!

The Logos was "with" God -explain how "with" can be one!
---1st_cliff on 2/28/13


\\...no article "a"
My brother is/was doctor?
The logos was (?) God?
Some translators even added "a" to clarify this!\\
---1st_cliff on 2/27/13


My word comes from me
My word is with me.

If you hear my words, do you hear me ??

Or do you hear "a" me ??
---James_L on 2/27/13


For those of you who don't know that Jesus is God I say:

Mt11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
Mt11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Joh5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
---trey on 2/27/13


"Is Jesus God?" - Warwick

It would be helpful to establish the actual definition of the word "God" that you are basing your question on.

Is it the biblical (Hebrew/Greek) definition? The early, Judeo/Christian understanding of the word as reflected in the Bible?

Or is it the modern, decidedly narrow, definition or understanding that most have in mind today when the word "God" (any God) is discussed?

Is your definition based on Biblical Lexicons and Concordances that draw attention to a words ancient, etymological meaning or is it based on something else?

Define "God".
---scott on 2/27/13


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"Jesus is the exact representation of God, He and the Father are One. Our finite minds can't comprehend this but Jesus is the Son of God, born of a virgin, and He said He and the Father are one so Yes, Jesus is God (in the flesh)." anon

Very well said. Simple but so true. As Jesus told Peter, "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

Blessed are you, anon.
---christan on 2/27/13


StrongAxe, you are right of the New World Translation and you are right of the teaching. It is the same in matter of eternal torment, which the Witness deny, NONETHELESS, while these are in their Bible, they are not in their teaching. I was siting their teaching, not their scriptures. Yes, the angel Michael and Jesus are the same in Witness teaching.
---born on 2/27/13


bike4335 on 2/27/13
thanks
---francis on 2/27/13


Let me make it simple for all these John.1.1 citers,
Example, I have a brother who is/was a doctor ,how do I say this in English if there was no article "a"
My brother is/was doctor?
The logos was (?) God?
Some translators even added "a" to clarify this!
Why/ because Theos was with ho Theos!
---1st_cliff on 2/27/13


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There's more to Him, than what label you put on Him. Whatever label you give Him, who is He to you?

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

"My little children, for whom I labor again in birth until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19)

How are we becoming because of Jesus being formed in us? If Jesus in us is less than God, this means God is giving us less than His very own . . . not how you love. Is less than His very own enough to please God? Romans 5:5 > we have God's very own love "in our hearts".
---willie_c: on 2/27/13


The Watchtower has not made any reference to Granville Sharp's Greek rules. Marc's customary anti-JW ranting is expected but unwarranted. I partially quote Sharp as does Marc. Allowances have to be made in Marc's case- obviously he doesn't understand there is only so much you can post in one hit.

In commenting on Sharp's 6th rule I did point out for the sake of brevity that a convenient exception is made for John 20:28. Trinitarians must because it would tear their trinity dogma apart.

This exception however leads Marc into polytheism. Jesus says he ascends to 'my God' (20:17), and bypassing Sharp's 6th rule Marc believes Thomas calling Jesus 'the God of me' also makes Jesus another God. Thus Marc has two God's in John 20.
---David8318 on 2/27/13


Scott, you wrote "The word is "Kurios" {Lord} not Theos" (God). You are therefore saying that if Jesus is called Theos it means He is God. However many have showed you that Theos and O Theos (the God)are used of Jesus. Therefore by your own reasoning you are saying Scripture calls Jesus God. Is this not so?

To assist you I draw your attention to the 6th Granville Sharp rule where where Granville Sharp is perfectly clear and insistent that (John 20:28)'O Theos' is addressed directly to Jesus, by Thomas, making Jesus God.
---Warwick on 2/27/13


Born:

the Jehovah's witnesses teach that John 1:1 says "The Word was a god". They believe Jesus was "a god" (and this is what Cluny quoted), but not the One True God. They believe he was a lesser being, the same as the archangel Michael.
---StrongAxe on 2/27/13


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Philippians 2:11- Mark_Eaton

WIth respect, it's that kind loose handling of scripture that gives trinitarians a bad name = ) .

What translation are you using that referrs to Jesus as "God" at Phil. 2:11?

The word is "Kurios" {Lord} not Theos" (God).

"Every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." NIV

Additionally no scripture refers to the "denial of Christ's deity".

One denies Christ by rejecting, or not accepting him, as our beautiful Lord and Savior, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world, the long-awaited Messiah, the Son of God, sent from heaven to redeem mankind by his Father.
---scott on 2/27/13


Hello everyone, long time no see. Jesus said, "if you've seen me, you've seen the Father."

Jesus is the exact representation of God, He and the Father are One.

Our finite minds can't comprehend this but Jesus is the Son of God, born of a virgin, and He said He and the Father are one so Yes, Jesus is God (in the flesh).
---anon on 2/27/13


Frances, you state the title "God" is reserved for the father, then write John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. So you contradict yourself in siting John 1:1 as John 1:1 is in the N.T. and ends "THE WORD WAS GOD." Jesus also says I and the Father are ONE and to see Jesus is to see God. Other than that point, I like your scripture selections. I agree the title of God is more given to the Father, yet assigned also to the son. John 10:34-36 Jesus answered, Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods? If he called them gods, to whom the word of God cameand Scripture cannot be set aside Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy?
Mt 22:44 The Lord said to my Lord"
---bike4335 on 2/27/13


markv, there are many on this site who deny Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. there is a song called "He was so much God that He comes to save the lost but He was so much man that He died upon a cross". I can't remember how it goes but look it up. it is a kyla rowland song. she is a christian lady who has written over 500 songs and most are sang by nationally known christian groups, trio's and quartets and many others know her work. we know Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God". that is kingjames.
---shira4368 on 2/27/13


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Marc, thank you for the information concerning the 6th Granville Sharp rule. I had never before read it, but looked it up, and you are correct. The whole section is too long for these little pages. However the text of John 20:28 is addressed in detail, for example Granville Sharp says Jesus addressed Himself to Thomas and Thomas then directed the two distinct titles-Lord and God-to the one pereson, Jesus who is therefore God. He also says there are other examples of this exception e.g. Acts 2:36 and Revelation 1:17,18.

This all demonstrates David does not have the whole picture, only the selective quoting the Watchtower is famous for.
---Warwick on 2/27/13


In the NT the name "God" is reserved for the father

1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him, and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

It is from passages like John 1 that we get Jesus as God

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
---francis on 2/27/13


These both say there is only one!
Deu_6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Isa_43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

No God before me, neither shall there be after me. Thats clear!
Well what about next to God, you know beside God, kind of working with him?

Isa_43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, and beside me there is no saviour.
Wow what a blow for the little god people. No, a gods!

So how can there only be one God and Jesus Christ not be him? Isa_43:11
Peace
---TheSeg on 2/27/13


My belief has and always will be:

'That every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is GOD to the glory of God the Father".

Jesus said that if we deny Him before men that He will deny us before His Father. We can deny who Jesus is physically, like Peter and say that He did not exist or the attributes of His life were fairy tales. Or we can deny His deity, as the Pharisees did, and say He was just a great teacher or He is just a god but not The God.

Either way the denial is the same.
---Mark_Eaton on 2/27/13


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Cluny, Jehovah Witness do not teach that Jesus is God.
---Born on 2/27/13


According to Jehovah's False Witnesses, Jesus is a god.

According to the Bible and Christianity, Jesus is God Incarnate.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 2/26/13


David bizarrely accuses me of "ignoring the 6th Granville Sharp rule." It's obvious David hasn't read Sharp's book regarding his prominent Rule 6 comment on John 20:28, preferring to read The Watchtower's expurgated version for the blind followers of Brooklyn's masters. Sharp clearly explains at Rule 6 that because Thomas made his claim TO (auto) Michael the angel, I mean, Jesus, the rule is set aside because this 'auto' determines that Thomas directed the titles of "The God of me and The Lord of me", TO Jesus and to no one else.

David's Brooklyn overlords, once again, lie, lie, lie, and the followers, like David, believe the lie without checking the primary source documents.
---Marc on 2/27/13


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