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What Is Faith

Concerning faith:
Rom 12:3 ...according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
2 Thes 3:2 ... for all men have not faith.

Are both statements true? How do you reconcile them?

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 ---trey on 2/28/13
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Sorry Francis, again I don't have to judge. You have two that Judge already. One is the Written Word of God and the other is the Son of God.
If I read something from the Word and you feel judged then that is the Holy Spirit at work not me.
PS: Are you judging that I judged?
---Elder on 8/13/13


Elder, the Bible is plain enough on almost every passage, but it is not true that anyone who does not understand it all is of the devil. You judge unrighteously. There is many believers who are just beginning to learn the Bible and the condition they are in. Hear again the word of God,
For it is written,
"But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" ( 1 Cor. 2:14) This passage is talking about the lost, the natural man. You claim they can understand an accept things of the Spirit of God, God says "they cannot understand them." As a preacher you should preach the Truth.
---Mark_V. on 8/13/13


Everyone please notice that I asked a question.
"Could it be that, Ye are of your father the devil who abode not in the truth but was a liar from the beginining? Read John 8:44-47."
Elder on 8/12/13
The simple answer would be either Yes or No. Yet, Francis feels judged by me. Why do you think that is?
Could it be the Holy Spirit at work?
PS: The Bible does not tell us that we cannot judge either. Matthew 7 gives the instructions for judging.
Paul, indeed, judged in I Cor 5 and set limitations and punishment.
One thing we can't judge is how loud someone will hollor when hit with a rock.
---Elder on 8/13/13


Elder, anyone who doesn't agree with you say they are of the devil. When the people you meet ask you questions and they do not agree, do you tell them they are of the devil? That seems to be a common response you give when you cannot answer the Word of God presented to you. Don't you understand,
"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him: and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor. 2:14). You argue that lost man can accept the things of the Spirit of God, and God says no. And because you do not believe the Word of God you tell others they are of the devil.
---Mark_V. on 8/13/13


Francis on 8/12/13 - I Believe that First -

John 6:29 - Jesus answered and said unto them, This is The Work Of God , That ye believe on whom he hath sent,

( Man's Belief / faith come's from God )
---RICHARDC on 8/13/13




I don't have to judge. The Bible is very plain except to those blind ones.
---Elder on 8/12/13
well did you not judge already?
Could it be that, Ye are of your father the devil who abode not in the truth but was a liar from the beginining? Read John 8:44-47.
---Elder on 8/12/13

Your judgment was that I was of the devil, because I believed that the first believed / received Jesus, THEN after wards they were born again and made sons of God.
And you judgement is that first they were born again, and then they believe

So you have judged thanks elder
---francis on 8/12/13


"Judge for yourself Elder" francis
I don't have to judge. The Bible is very plain except to those blind ones.
---Elder on 8/12/13


If this were true what difference would it make if you believed it or not? What changes? Why would you NEED to believe it?
---Elder on 8/12/13


They were born of God first, then they believed and God gave them the right to become children of God.
---Mark_V. on 8/12/13

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name

you be the judge, were they born again, and just did not know it until they believed, or did they believe first, and then were born again
---francis on 8/12/13


You BECOME a Child of God when you are Born Again. That's what Born Again means, born of the Spirit of the Life of Christ. That is the "RISEN CHRIST".

We become begotten sons through Jesus Christ. We are a NEW CREATION In Christ.
---kathr4453 on 8/12/13


If this were true what difference would it make if you believed it or not? What changes? Why would you NEED to believe it?
---Elder on 8/12/13

They were born of God first, then they believed and God gave them the right to become children of God.
---Mark_V. on 8/12/13

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Judge for yourself Elder
---francis on 8/12/13




Faith in Christs work on your behalf is what has been offered for your belief. It's faith in the gospel for today. 1 Cor 15:2-4
The death, burial and resurrection.
Without Christs death and resurrection Christian faith is blind, foolish, and unacceptable to God. This is why Paul places so much emphasis on the preaching of the cross as the object of your belief.

If this doctrinal faith makes you uncomfortable, or conflicts with what you think God should accept, then your faith is not based on the Bible, and is not based in reality.
---michael_e on 8/12/13


"So they were born of Gdo but did not know it until they believed it" That is right, faith was given to them when they were born of God. That is the reason they confess with their mouths.

---Mark_V. on 8/12/13


you mean faith to believe you were one of the elect?

GARBAGE.

The GIFT is ETERNAL LIFE through Jesus Christ. The GIFT is the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God in Christ.

YOU were not already IN CHRIST before you believed. that would make you righteous before you believed. Jesus clearly said he did NOT come for the righteous but to bring SINNERS to repentance.
---kathr4453 on 8/12/13


Elder, after you finish condemning me and dividing the Word of God, all at the same time, I will be expecting those 15 passages that you say, God gave man a free will.
If you cannot find any, then answer these passages,
"As it is written, There is none righteous, not even one, There is none who understands, there is none who seeks after God" You claim there is many who understand and who seek after God who are lost. Can you proof the passages are wrong?
---Mark_V. on 8/12/13


"(John 1:12,13)..., that those who believe and become children of God are those who are born of God already."
Mark_V.
Wrong, more error. There is no way that anyone could possibly butcher these verses this bad without doing it on purpose.
"But if our gospel be hid it is hid to them that are lost.
In whom the god of this world hath blinded...," II Cor 4:3-4a.
The John 1:12-13 verses simply state that those who receive Christ become sons/daughters of God the Father. This is not forced upon them.
---Elder on 8/12/13


"GARBAGE what this means is that I do not have to believe in Jesus to be born again, I am already born of God, I just need to believe it"
francis
If this were true what difference would it make if you believed it or not? What changes? Why would you NEED to believe it?
Could it be that, Ye are of your father the devil who abode not in the truth but was a liar from the beginining? Read John 8:44-47.
---Elder on 8/12/13


Kathr, you say,
"So they were already born of God, and after they were born of God then they believed, and after than they became children of God" They were born of God first, then they believed and God gave them the right to become children of God. (v.1) says "But as many as received Him" then says, "Who were born, not of blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God" Notice, no free will mentioned, it says "Nor the will of man"
Then you say,
"So they were born of Gdo but did not know it until they believed it" That is right, faith was given to them when they were born of God. That is the reason they confess with their mouths.
---Mark_V. on 8/12/13


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GARBAGE what this means is that I do not have to believe in Jesus to be born again, I am already born of God, I just need to believe it

---francis on 8/11/13


francis this is exactly what MarkV has bee saying all along. As long as you BELIEVE you are one if the elect...walla, you are, and always have been. Isn't that awesome. No Jesus necessary here.
---kathr4453 on 8/12/13


Markv, that verse begins....those who receive Him, to them gave he the power TO BECOME....

Behold I stand at the door and knock...whosoever HEARS MY VOICE AND 'opens the door', I WILL COME INTO ...

Colossians... Those who have RECEIVED Jesus Christ.....so walk he in Him.

AFTER YOU BELIEVED THE GOSPEL....

Now Markv, you need to understand the ENGLISH LANGUAGE, and how your interpretation of Scripture shows you are wrong.

Your own personal testimony PROVE YOU HEARD FIRST...

Also proves you did not RECEIVE HIM, as scripture instructs us to do.
---kathr4453 on 8/11/13


The passages state, that those who believe and become children of God are those who are born of God already.
---Mark_V. on 8/11/13
So they were already born of God, and after they were born of God then they believed, and after than they became children of God

So they were born of Gdo but did not know it until they believed it

GARBAGE what this means is that I do not have to believe in Jesus to be born again, I am already born of God, I just need to believe it
---francis on 8/11/13


Kathr, you read the passages in (John 1:12,13) and it flew right by you. You need to grasp the Truth. But you are looking for errors, not the Truth. The passages state, that those who believe and become children of God are those who are born of God already. Read it a hundred times maybe you will get it.
I never said that people are physically born already of God. All people are born spiritually dead. God makes them alive together with Christ read Eph. 2:1-10) it is a spiritual birth.
---Mark_V. on 8/11/13


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Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Romans 12:3 God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


The ability to repent, and to have faith in God that he will forgive our sins, does not come from us. It is a gift from God, given to us BEFORE we repent, and BEFORE we accept Jesus so that we are able to express our desire for the things of God and to be strengthened by God and used by God.

If God does not grant to us the gift of faith and repentance BEFORE we repent we would never repent
---francis on 8/11/13


Markv, your interpretation and understanding of scripture is terrible.

You call God a murderer from the beginning, without shame,

You again go off the deep when Paul tells we are COMPLETE IH HIM, calling Paul a liar, and re-writing scripture as though YOU know better than Paul.

The list goes on and on. Why don't YOU go clean up your own act before trying to clean up someone's else's.

You cause more damage out of your own ignorance than you realize. GOD is not speaking THROUGH YOU MARKV, making YOU a liar.

So continually calling others liars or ignorant or whatever you say to begin your bashing, means NOTHING out of your mouth except to show you are a fool.
---kathr4453 on 8/11/13


francis, your interpretation is terrible. You say,
"One passage tells us that God has granted to all men a measure of faith, that is faith to believe in God. faith to turn away from the world and to God" Wrong, In (Romans 12:1-21)Paul was talking to believers (the brethren) in (v.1) those among him (v.3) that "God has dealt to each one a measure of faith" Only believers have faith, only believers are baptized into one body, So Paul says,
"For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same functions" (v.4).
Then you say, "the other passages says that not every one has used that faith." The lost have no faith.
---Mark_V. on 8/11/13


Markv, No one is ALREADY born of God. You really need to study Colossians more. Maybe you haven't because it scares you...and fear of that truth has caused your fear to turn to hate towards others who are possibly more advanced in their understanding than you are, where you immediately begin your words with YOU LIE.

You simply cannot mature in Christ by only memorizing 15 verses.

Colossians 2 begins THOSE WHO HAVE RECEIVED JESUS, so walk ye IN HIM.

But FIRST Paul says in Chapter 1 ....CHRIST IN YOU...so for Christ to be IN YOU, YOU have to REVEIVE HIM.

I in them and Thou in Me, that we all may be ONE... And those who believe on me through "THEIR WORD" THEIR here would be the Apostles. John 17:20
---kathr4453 on 8/11/13


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Kathr, here you say,
" believe in the Gospel according to the MYSTERY Markv....
But you first must RECEIVE HIM."
It is still a mystery to you. The Word of God tells us who receives Him,
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name" now hear who this people are,
"who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12,13). Pretty clear that those who believe and become Children of God were those born of God already. You do not believe that mystery.
---Mark_V. on 8/10/13


One passage tells us that God has granted to all men a measure of faith, that is faith to believe in God. faith to turn away from the world and to God

the other passages says that not every one has used that faith. They have thus rejected the word of God and are wicked, intending to do harm to the church
---francis on 8/9/13


Romans 16:25-27

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.



I just LOVE these verses. Volumes upon volumes of truth could be written just on these 3 verses.

I'd underline the most important word or phrase, but, i't hard to say what part is more important.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/13


Evaluate the content of your faith, you may find it is faith in yourself and your own godliness, instead of Gods provision.

God can justify the ungodly who place their faith in the blood of Christ as paying for their sins.

Faith in the Death and Resurrection
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification Rom 4:24-25

If your faith does not include the resurrection of Christ on your behalf, which constitutes the finished work of Christ, then your faith is in vain.
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain 1 Cor 15:17
---michael_e on 8/8/13


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Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:.


OH HOW I LOVE THIS VERSE .

It says as we have RECEIVED Christ Jesus. Now who said we don't receive Jesus Christ????

To as many as RECEIVE HIM to THEM gave he the power to BECOME the sons of God. We are ONLY SONS, because the SON is IN US...the Gospel according to the Mystery. Paul mentions the MYSTERY and explains it in Colossians 1:24-27, and again in Colossians 2, Romans 16:25-27. CHRIST IN YOU. Not even available until AFTER He Rose from the dead.

I believe in the Gospel according to the MYSTERY Markv....

But you first must RECEIVE HIM.
---kathr4453 on 8/8/13


Kathr, you say,
"Like I said MarkV, you have DENIED Jesus in taking your place with Him in death and resurrection life resulting only then in the New Birth." I never deny Christ. What Colossians does say is,"And you being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He has made alive together with him, having forgiven you all your trespasses" Paul was quoting what he said about God in (Eph. 2:1-10).
"But God who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved, and raised up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.." (Eph. 2:4-6).
---Mark_V. on 8/8/13


Like I said MarkV, you have DENIED Jesus in taking your place with Him in death and resurrection life resulting only then in the New Birth.

To say you were "birthed" before that is a lie.

Colossians 2 PROVES your version is a lie.
---kathr4453 on 8/7/13


Kathr, you would not look like a fool every time you lie. You accuse me of denying Jesus in the flesh. All a lie made up from a mind that only knows to lie. The Spirit birth is an act of God, who is the Spirit of God. God Spirit moves by God's will. It is a secret work of God. He made us spiritually alive together with Christ. But a person who has been born again of the Spirit may know that he has been saved because the Holy Spirit "bears witness" with our spirit that we are the children of God. This is an experience knowledge of the heart, that when we are born again of the Spirit we become certain of our salvation by our fruits, the change is in our hearts. And we know by faith that we will be saved from the wrath to come.
---Mark_V. on 8/7/13


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Markv, how convenient for you to do away with the "trinity" when confronted.

The SPIRIT OF THE "LIFE OF CHRIST" the Last "man" Adam, meaning the one who came in the flesh, who is Jesus Christ IS THAT LIFE GIVING SPIRIT.

MarkV, let me re-iterate again, the Holy Spirit did I not die and Rise again. We are not baptized into the Holy Spirit's death and resurrection life. We are not Crucified with the Holy Spirit.

AND STOP doing away with Jesus Christ when your false doctrine is confronted, by saying " Oh, they are all God". Yes, but they all have different offices. TODAY, CHRIST is in you, ..the LAST Man ADAM.

The LAST "MAN" ADAM wasn't in the OT.
---kathr4453 on 8/6/13


#2 Markv, YOU DENY that Jesus came in the Flesh. "DENY" has several definitions. For instance, if you "denied your wife", that doesn't mean you don't believe she exists, but it means you have withheld YOURSELF from her in some form or fashion. YOU have denied Him HIS RIGHTFUL PLACE in your life, and have climbed over...so you think....some other way.

YOU have nothing, NOTHING apart from JESUS CHRIST and HIS WORKS "on the Cross".

We live in the dispensation of the FINISHED works of Christ, Christ Crucified and Risen. OT Saints lived before Christ died and Rose Again, and WERE NOT " set free " from sin, therefore could not be BORN AGAIN of the spirit of the LIFE OF CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 8/6/13


Kathr 2: another thing you do not understand is the regeneration by the Spirit is to bring an unbeliver to Spiritual life. That is when God draws you to himself, and makes you alive together with Christ (Eph. 2:4,5) What happened at Pentacost is the endwelling of the Spirit where Christ comes to live in your heart and you are given spiritual gifts for your Journey, and then spiritually baptized into one body in Christ, then there is the sealing of the Spirit and that is for assurance, so that no one who belongs to God is ever lost. Many different actions of the Spirit. All this different actions are made by God the Spirit.
---Mark_V. on 8/6/13


Kathr, first, the Holy Spirit is God and has been around forever. In the beginning of Bible History He was already at work in the lives of many people. This is something you just don't understand. He was bringing people to spiritual life then, but it wasn't the norm then like it was after Pentecost. He has always been either in some believers, or upon some believers, as we are told in the New Testament which reveals that the Spirit in the prophets gave them discernment and wisdom ( 1 Peter 1:11). Not all people enjoyed the enabling ministry of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament like they do today after Pentacost.
The Spirit was in Joshua Num. 27:18) in Daniel (Dan. 4:8: 5:11-14: 6:3). The Spirit also came upon many (Judges 3:10: 6:34).
---Mark_V. on 8/5/13


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Markv, NOW after Jesus died and rose again, we have countless scriptures and eyewitnesses that Jesus is in fact The Christ, God made flesh. After Jesus rose from the dead, some 500 people saw the risen Christ.

Now we see the Apostles TESTIFYING to Jesus death and resurrection, and "believe" based solely on that testimony. NOW all those things hidden are revealed, all those things that pointed to Christ FULFILLED, where anyone NOW can search the scriptures and believe or refuse to believe Jesus died and rose again.

When Jesus first said those words, He had not gone to the cross, so it wasn't His death and resurrection one needed to believe at that time. His resurrection is made KNOWN to all mankind.
---kathr4453 on 8/5/13


#2. So you see MarkV, what was revealed THEN by the Father, because at that time the Holy Spirit was In Christ, backed up by scripture as well, was not revealed apart from scripture to begin with. Even the woman at the well, a sinner, HEARD about the PROMISED Christ, because they were all looking for Him, even Gentiles heard.

Today it's the HOLY SPIRIT who was sent AFTER Jesus ascended is who brings the Light of the GOSPEL MESSAGE ,that is Jesus death and Resurrection, leading to salvation.

No one can come to the Father except through the Son.
---kathr4453 on 8/5/13


Michael e, what is great about the passages you gave is that in order for a lost person to know the Christ of the Bible, God has to reveal it to him. Otherwise that lost person remains lost as you posted,
"Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: "for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." The passage is pretty clear, Simon Barjona knew who the Christ was only because God revealed it to him.
---Mark_V. on 8/3/13


well actually Romans 12 is talking about the faith we need to use our spiritual Gift that we were all given at the time we were saved. Please continue reading Romans 12...it's all right there. It is not talking about faith to become saved, but faith to operate your spiritual Gift...like teaching, evangelism etc. Faith again too is listed as one of the 9 Gifts of the Fruit of the Spirit in Galatians. And again, this has nothing to do with the faith leading to Salvation.

So we need to study to show ourselves approved rightly dividing the word of truth when we see the words Faith or Grace etc.
---kathr4453 on 7/31/13


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Nana,//How?//
The same as Peter, he believed who Christ was.

Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
---michael_e on 7/30/13


Bro. Trey, concerning (Rom. 12:3) Paul is talking to the believers (v.1) concerning them not unbelievers when he says, "For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than He ought to thing, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith." Each one of the brethren he is talking to. Not speaking about the world, but believers.
(2 Thess. 3:2) Paul again is talking to the brethren (v.1) telling them they may be delievered from unreasonable and wicked men, for not all have faith" Paul is saying to the believers that not all human beings have faith .
---Mark_V. on 7/30/13


michael_e,

How?
---Nana on 7/29/13


Nana,
//Was he justified?//
Of course
---michael_e on 7/29/13


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Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

michael_e, It is there written that Simon 'simply believed'. Was he justified? How or why not?
---Nana on 7/29/13


Faith is often confused with presumption, optimism, determination, superstition and imagination. Actually it is simply believing.
Rom. 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
---michael_e on 7/29/13


1 Corinthians 6:9_10 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Matthew 7:23 "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Matthew 6:33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you."
There is a big difference between seeking and not seeking. That's every man's choice.
---Nana on 7/29/13


Nana 7/28/13 - No magical pixie dust , Don't know were your going with That - By Grace a man is Saved, though Faith - Not of works - Faith without works is dead, but those Works don't save a person,

Ephesians 2:8 - For by Grace are ye saved through Faith, and that Not Of Yourselves, It is a Gift of God,
2:9 - Not of Works, lest any man should Boast,
---RICHARDC on 7/28/13


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"IF God gave man a Choice, ..."---RICHARDC on 7/28/13

"And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night."
"And God called the firmament Heaven."

"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."

God tells man, "Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes, cease to do evil,
Learn to do well, seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow." Each man must do that, there is no magical pixie dust.
---Nana on 7/28/13


God gave man a Choice ?

IF God gave man a Choice, That would mean Man has to do something to Get Right with God, And that's a Work, and you can Not be saved by any Works, Christ did the work at the Cross,

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ,and not the works of the Law: For by no works of the law shall no flesh be justified,
---RICHARDC on 7/28/13


God gave man certain things and one of them is we have a choice with what God has given us. some men reject and some accept but God still gave man the choice. God does not need us, we need Him. He wants us to need Him.
---shira4368 on 7/26/13


Again, just to re-iterate, if God needs faith, then God needs someone more powerful than He to put His Faith in? Just to re-iterate again, there is no power in FAITH itself. Our faith is IN SOMEONE, RE: God, not in faith itself.
---kathr4453 on 7/25/13


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Faith is what God used to make everything with. He spoke his word believing it would do what he said it would do. Then he gave us his word and the faith to make it work for us. That is how Good God is.

---Bryan on 7/15/13

Brian, Hebrews says By Faith WE BELIEVE God created....it doesn't say by faith God created. Big difference. This particular verse is one that WOF has twisted and used believing FAITH has some sort of POWER attached to it. The Calvinists TOO have given POWER to faith. Faith is an ATTITUDE not a power. Faith is simply believing what someone says and taking them at their word.


No these scriptures do not contradict one another. One's lack of understanding scripture is what is contradictory.
---kathr4453 on 7/25/13


faith is knowing God is going to do something in our lives before we know it or ask it.
---shira4368 on 7/22/13


Hello,I believe some are really humble people, I know a woman who does NOT have any schooling,her dad kept her at home work the fields in P.R.She can not read or write,yet God has bless her a non-wavering faith,no one can deny! She heard the gospel- took it like a baby trust it's mother! Faith given to her by God..hearing/ believed it..Rom.4:5,Rom.5:1,Rom.9:30.
---lidia4796 on 7/22/13


Rom 12:3 ...according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. (exhortation to humility and brotherly kindness, to the point of feeding your enemy if he be hungry and without means)
2 Thes 3:2 ... for all men have not faith. (some men are unreasonable and wicked, who live in the workings of the flesh, Galatians 5:19 to 25. Note that Paul classifies faith as fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22).

Are both statements true? How do you reconcile them?
Keywords, 'dealt' and 'have'. Think of the parable of the talents. Who had in the end? See Mark 4:25

Romans 14:22 "Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth."
---Nana on 7/15/13


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No one can reconcile those two verses because they don't agree with one another.

Here are two quotes I have heard about faith, one from a minister and one from a layman. 1) "Anyone who goes into the seminary and comes out with their faith intact wasn't listening."

2) "Faith allows you to believe a lie as if it is the truth without having the facts to back it up."

Did God need faith to create the world? No, He KNEW that when He spoke the elements would obey. The more knowledge we have of God, the less need we have of faith.
---barb on 7/15/13


Faith is what God used to make everything with. He spoke his word believing it would do what he said it would do. Then he gave us his word and the faith to make it work for us. That is how Good God is.
---Bryan on 7/15/13


lidia, your life is a testimony. you can see God working when we have trials in life. I have never lost a home n a fire but I had a friend who did. I cannot even imagine that. you deserve anything in life that helps you live better.
---shira4368 on 7/14/13


Hello , one example came
to my mind ( based on Heb.11:1) like they quote here, Faith is like many years ago we lost our home, my husband was ill in the hospital and I really had to go a long ways to just ask for help and was not really good condition myself just kept walking..praying. one woman rode up gave me$ 20 she said "God told her to give it to me!" I said thankyou! Later next day old lady came to us & gave us a car! She was moving to do mission work over seas,I was in "awe" she insist,we hugged, it all came from God by faith
have always said Heb.11:1
Love of Jesus!
---lidia4796 on 7/14/13


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Faith is defined by the bible as follows:Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
---billy9676 on 6/20/13


Yes, both statements are true. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith believes, we are complete in Him. WHY, because we are told we are. There are many scriptures to back this up. Yet many don't believe it. The ones who don't believe it simply don't have faith. They want to argue using their own understanding, and say, we are not complete, despite what God says.

It's a sad day when those who tell you they are the ELECT, have such a limited understanding, and still want to lead you ......to where? One day, that will be known to all.

Beware of those who curse you and God's word in the name of God.
---kathr4453 on 4/26/13


Bro. Trey, the two passages do not contradict each other. The first passage in (Rom. 12:3) is speaking concerning the brothers who Paul is speaking to in (v.1) Paul says, "everyone who is among you" (v. 3) and those among him were believers. And to each He gave a measure of faith.
The other passage (Thess. 3:2) is speaking about all men, in reference to the wicked in the same verse. In context Paul was speaking at the time of those in the Corinthian Church who were perverse and aggressively unrighteous in their opposition of him and the gospel.
---Mark_V. on 3/5/13


christian, what's your point? LOL

Hebrews tells us what faith is: The Evidence of things not seen, etc., so what's your point? I was quoting scripture and sounds like I was wrong. Please explain.
---anon on 3/3/13


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believing in something not seen. I believe God gives everyone a chance to be saved. when conviction comes, we should heed. we do have a choice to accept or deny when God calls.
---shira4368 on 3/2/13


"It is EVIDENCE and SUBSTANCE of things hoped for (not of things you already have). Does that make sense?" anon

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."


"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
---christan on 3/2/13


2 Thessalonians 3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all [men] have not faith.

This means that not everyone believes in God. Some of them are unreasonable and wicked

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Everyone is equal in God eyes who believe. Al though we have different gifts, it is given by the same spirit, everyone has the same spirit in them
---francis on 3/2/13


Faith is the EVIDENCE of things hoped for, the substance of things not seen.

You believe without seeing, that's faith. You walk according to God's word and it comes to pass in your life, that's faith.

It is EVIDENCE and SUBSTANCE of things hoped for (not of things you already have). Does that make sense?
---anon on 3/2/13


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Hi, Trey (c: In Romans 12:3, I think Paul means "every" Christian. And he means "faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6). So, our Christian faith works by means of love > God's own love in us > Romans 5:5.

With this, we have 1 Corinthians 6:17 > "But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." I would say this shows we have spiritual connection with God.

Sin is separation. Faith is our togetherness, being "one spirit with" God. So > about Hebrews 11:1 > our union with God is our "substance" of our hope to spend eternity with God. And faith's actual union with God is our "evidence" that there is God, because we are in actual union with Him (c:
---willie_c: on 3/1/13


"Faith is given to all people." Cluny

Really? That's not what Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 3:2, "And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: FOR ALL MEN HAVE NOT FAITH." Rather contradicting isn't it?

And if it's "given to all people" then NOBODY should be sent to the Lake of Fire, right? That's because we are told that "faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is eternal life".

To say "faith is a spiritual muscle. If it's not exercised, it's lost." is to boast/gloat over another who's in hell.

"and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
---christan on 3/1/13


Heb 11:1

ERV- Faith is what makes real the things we hope for. It is proof of what we cannot see.

ASV - faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.

EXB - Faith means being sure [the assurance] of the things we hope for and knowing that something is real even if we do not see it.

GNT - To have faith is to be sure of the things we hope for, to be certain of the things we cannot see.

NCV - knowing that something is real even if we do not see it.

NET - faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see.

NLT - Faith is the confidence that what we hope for will actually happen, it gives us assurance about things we cannot see.
---bike on 3/1/13


Faith is itself a gift.

Faith is given to all people.

But faith is a spiritual muscle. If it's not exercised, it's lost.

Does this analogy help?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 3/1/13


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Scripture doesn't contradict Scripture, period!

Quoting Romans 12:3 without verse 1 and 2 is an act of being mischievous, to say the least. It's clear "the every man" does not imply everyone of mankind, like John 3:16 of "the world" is not everyone of mankind (see John 17:9).

In context, verse 3 MUST be read from verse 1 which starts like this: "I beseech you therefore, BRETHREN, by the mercies of God," which obviously Paul was speaking and writing to only the Christian. Unbelievers do not receive "saving faith" from God. Hence this is being confirmed in 2 Thessalonians 3:2, "...for all men have not faith."

See? Scripture confirms Scripture.
---christan on 3/1/13


Are both statements true? Yes.
"How do you reconcile them?"
Trey, Rom 12:3 Is the innate faith common to man and is naturally, for the most part, directed towards that which is, or has been, sensually perceived to be true.
2 Thes 3:2 is saving faith. It is that same faith mentioned above, redirected of the Father in those He has given to yield to the Divine influence of His Spirit, towards the Spiritual reality of His existence and the Truth of His Word.
In other words the first is a "conviction of the truth of anything."
The second is "the conviction that God exists, and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ".
---Josef on 3/1/13


Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly

Rom_12:6 according to the proportion of faith,
1Co_3:7 but God that giveth the increase.

A man might think he has more faith than another. Doesn't mean he does, just means he believes he does. So whenever he speaks to someone, there will always be this air of superiority.
Only because people believe all kinds of things today!

I believe if there is any truth in what is being said by both, then there should be some agreement!
I know some things, but I only believe others. Until God gives the increase!
Peace
---TheSeg on 3/1/13


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